Wyoming Resident hunters lobby group

jims

Very Active Member
Messages
2,386
Here we go again! Looks like 90/10 will be an uphill battle for wyo res.

Nonres that have the chance should email the list of county commissioners in the above post asking them not to change left over tags first priority to wyo res. The commissioners could actually still change this this year without going through legislation. Currently nonres and res have the same opportunity for left over tags!
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,782
I think 2 things need to happen in regard to the WY draw.

1. 90-10 across the board except for goat and bison (and grizzly when it happens) which should be resident only for 100% of the tags. Any area with less than 10 tags, also 100% resident only.

2. There should be a second draw for residents only before any tags drop to the NR pool.

All leftovers from the second R draw open to anyone as leftovers.
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,093
You know you could give non residents 90 percent of the tags and residents 10 percent. So here is my point, the non resident will still complain how they are getting ripped off and residents have it made....

Thanks to the whiners on this forum i fully support 90/10 . 90% for residents of course
 
Last edited:

elkantlers

Very Active Member
Messages
2,507
I think 2 things need to happen in regard to the WY draw.

1. 90-10 across the board except for goat and bison (and grizzly when it happens) which should be resident only for 100% of the tags. Any area with less than 10 tags, also 100% resident only.

2. There should be a second draw for residents only before any tags drop to the NR pool.

All leftovers from the second R draw open to anyone as leftovers.
#2 How about Residents have to pay NR prices for the 2nd draw?
 

wytex

Active Member
Messages
695
Nope, no way we should pay NR prices.
I would support all tags not drawn in resident draw go right into leftover draw that all have a chance at. Just stop rolling them right into NR draw.
Set the NR quota and abide by it for 1str draw.
 

jims

Very Active Member
Messages
2,386
I actually hope the 2nd draw goes through to Wyo res only! The funny thing is Wyo res want more tags but aren't willing to pay higher prices to make up the difference!

Fewer nonres mean less additional $ to local economies that are currently struggling with covid and poor oil/gas! Wyo res will buy the same groceries, etc whether they hunt or not!

I've never complained that nonres in Colo have 30% of deer, elk, and antelope tags in most units. Nonres bring big $ to the CPW and local economies! We welcome nonres hunters in Colo with open arms!
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
I actually hope the 2nd draw goes through to Wyo res only! The funny thing is Wyo res want more tags but aren't willing to pay higher prices to make up the difference!

Fewer nonres mean less additional $ to local economies that are currently struggling with covid and poor oil/gas! Wyo res will buy the same groceries, etc whether they hunt or not!

I've never complained that nonres in Colo have 30% of deer, elk, and antelope tags in most units. Nonres bring big $ to the CPW and local economies! We welcome nonres hunters in Colo with open arms!
I’ve compiled a list of businesses in Wyoming (besides outfitters) that need non resident hunters to stay in business:







































.

Stop the BS about small businesses needing those non residents. It’s a lie. Nothing more.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,782
I actually hope the 2nd draw goes through to Wyo res only! The funny thing is Wyo res want more tags but aren't willing to pay higher prices to make up the difference!

Fewer nonres mean less additional $ to local economies that are currently struggling with covid and poor oil/gas! Wyo res will buy the same groceries, etc whether they hunt or not!

I've never complained that nonres in Colo have 30% of deer, elk, and antelope tags in most units. Nonres bring big $ to the CPW and local economies! We welcome nonres hunters in Colo with open arms!
What a load of crap.

Here's how easy it would be to make up the difference for license dollars to the GF department under 90-10 for moose, sheep, goat, bison and LQ elk:

Total revenue to GF lost would be: $191,038 from a combination of sheep, moose, bison, and goat permits.

To make up the loss in revenue, with room to spare, raising Resident fishing licenses from $27 annually to $30 annually would raise $222,540. A simple $3 increase in resident fishing licenses would more than cover the NR license revenue.

If full 90-10 was across the board for full priced antlered/horned game, it would be a license revenue loss to the Department of $1,629,634 dollars based on 2020 quotas. (this would assume reduced priced tags stay at current splits, which I'm fine with)

To make up the revenue loss, if we raised every full priced Resident license $10...that would generate $1,486,770.

So....by raising each Resident full priced license sold here by $10 and raising Resident fishing licenses by $3, we would generate $1,709,310. More than enough to cover the license revenue loss for 90-10.

I'll pay that all....day....long for 90% of the available tags and if its framed that way, I think a vast majority of Residents are going to be on board.

All we need to do is continue to apply pressure to our elected officials, and if they don't comply, vote them out and put some in place that support 90-10. The Resident hunters in this State outnumber NR's and outfitters by a huge margin. Resident sportsmen/women are also a powerful and large voting block.

Time to exert the pressure and get what we want...elected officials work for us, not the other way around.
 
Last edited:

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Here we go again! Looks like 90/10 will be an uphill battle for wyo res.

Nonres that have the chance should email the list of county commissioners in the above post asking them not to change left over tags first priority to wyo res. The commissioners could actually still change this this year without going through legislation. Currently nonres and res have the same opportunity for left over tags!
County commissioners have little to Zero role in wildlife tag allocation though they do occasionally help with where sewer lines drain, hopefully aimed at surrounding states.
 

wytex

Active Member
Messages
695
I actually hope the 2nd draw goes through to Wyo res only! The funny thing is Wyo res want more tags but aren't willing to pay higher prices to make up the difference!

Fewer nonres mean less additional $ to local economies that are currently struggling with covid and poor oil/gas! Wyo res will buy the same groceries, etc whether they hunt or not!

I've never complained that nonres in Colo have 30% of deer, elk, and antelope tags in most units. Nonres bring big $ to the CPW and local economies! We welcome nonres hunters in Colo with open arms!
You are flat out wrong about small towns and their livelihood.
And yes I would also pay a fee increase for our resident licenses. Most folks I know feel the same, modest fee increases will not hurt and make a world of difference for WG&F funding.

I also encourage you to write all those county commissioners and please post their responses. I will be very surprised if any of them care what you think, but who knows.

NR hunters will still be welcomed to our state with open arms as well, once they draw from their allotment of tags.
We'll still have hoards of non hunting tourists this summer so maybe just raise prices on services they typically use more than residents to make up for that huge loss in NR hunting income.
Pretty sure the National Parks have raised some fees that will affect visitors.
 

fullcry

Active Member
Messages
605
Sadly all you guys are arguing over scraps and a dying era.
While you argue over NR tags your all missing the big picture.
In just 4 years you saw Arizona and New Mexico populations increase enough to change their states forever.
And anyone living there a long time is shocked!

Utah and Colorado are already over burdened with so many people many will now be lucky to draw 1-2 good tags in their life.
Montana is also exploding and has anyone been to Reno lately?
Nevada is becoming 2 states real fast.

Kind of like Idaho.The amount of people flooding in is shocking and it ain’t stopping!

The last state on the list is Wyoming and it’s only a matter of time before everyone bleeds into living over there.
Sad,but by the time you fight and scratch and finally get rid of the extra non residents in your state.
Your gonna wake up one day in Wyoming and wonder were all the new neighbors came from.
And suddenly your going to look just like every other state.It could be 5-10 years but it’s coming!!
Maybe then some guys who run their mouths and knock other states will shut up.
But probably not.Lol
 

grosventrehunter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,391
Here we go again! Looks like 90/10 will be an uphill battle for wyo res.

Nonres that have the chance should email the list of county commissioners in the above post asking them not to change left over tags first priority to wyo res. The commissioners could actually still change this this year without going through legislation. Currently nonres and res have the same opportunity for left over tags!
Hey jims jump on over to the Colorado forum and show your support for the NR in regards to bill 21-150. Seems you only chime in on Wyoming issues, but not a word when it comes to your home state of Colorado. You lost all credibility....
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
Sadly all you guys are arguing over scraps and a dying era.
While you argue over NR tags your all missing the big picture.
In just 4 years you saw Arizona and New Mexico populations increase enough to change their states forever.
And anyone living there a long time is shocked!

Utah and Colorado are already over burdened with so many people many will now be lucky to draw 1-2 good tags in their life.
Montana is also exploding and has anyone been to Reno lately?
Nevada is becoming 2 states real fast.

Kind of like Idaho.The amount of people flooding in is shocking and it ain’t stopping!

The last state on the list is Wyoming and it’s only a matter of time before everyone bleeds into living over there.
Sad,but by the time you fight and scratch and finally get rid of the extra non residents in your state.
Your gonna wake up one day in Wyoming and wonder were all the new neighbors came from.
And suddenly your going to look just like every other state.It could be 5-10 years but it’s coming!!
Maybe then some guys who run their mouths and knock other states will shut up.
But probably not.Lol
Ummmm we can’t control population growth so let’s focus on what we can control.
 

grosventrehunter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,391
Sadly all you guys are arguing over scraps and a dying era.
While you argue over NR tags your all missing the big picture.
In just 4 years you saw Arizona and New Mexico populations increase enough to change their states forever.
And anyone living there a long time is shocked!

Utah and Colorado are already over burdened with so many people many will now be lucky to draw 1-2 good tags in their life.
Montana is also exploding and has anyone been to Reno lately?
Nevada is becoming 2 states real fast.

Kind of like Idaho.The amount of people flooding in is shocking and it ain’t stopping!

The last state on the list is Wyoming and it’s only a matter of time before everyone bleeds into living over there.
Sad,but by the time you fight and scratch and finally get rid of the extra non residents in your state.
Your gonna wake up one day in Wyoming and wonder were all the new neighbors came from.
And suddenly your going to look just like every other state.It could be 5-10 years but it’s coming!!
Maybe then some guys who run their mouths and knock other states will shut up.
But probably not.Lol
I agree. Sadly, the west is changing fast and we won't recognize it 5-10 years from now.
 

Chesterwyo

Active Member
Messages
930
Just thinking out loud here. Would it be possible that in order to assuage the “concerns” that the outfitter lobby will have with the 90/10 split that they could push to make every license that could previously be purchased as a general tag by residents be transitioned to LQ?
 

Mackey

Member
Messages
29
Sadly all you guys are arguing over scraps and a dying era.
While you argue over NR tags your all missing the big picture.
In just 4 years you saw Arizona and New Mexico populations increase enough to change their states forever.
And anyone living there a long time is shocked!

Utah and Colorado are already over burdened with so many people many will now be lucky to draw 1-2 good tags in their life.
Montana is also exploding and has anyone been to Reno lately?
Nevada is becoming 2 states real fast.

Kind of like Idaho.The amount of people flooding in is shocking and it ain’t stopping!

The last state on the list is Wyoming and it’s only a matter of time before everyone bleeds into living over there.
Sad,but by the time you fight and scratch and finally get rid of the extra non residents in your state.
Your gonna wake up one day in Wyoming and wonder were all the new neighbors came from.
And suddenly your going to look just like every other state.It could be 5-10 years but it’s coming!!
Maybe then some guys who run their mouths and knock other states will shut up.
But probably not.Lol
And you can bet those “new neighbors” are gonna vote for leaders that think like their old leaders “back home”. Soon your dearly beloved Wyoming will turn purple and then blue. Then it’s over. I see it happening here in Tennessee. We are currently U-haul’s #1 destination state. But this isn’t what we are discussing here.
Back on topic, it looks likes WYGOA is doing a GREAT job lobbying your state legislature to keep tag splits the way they are. If you want it to change, you’re gonna have to pony up more money in your PAC fund than they are, AND show the legislature how to make the change revenue neutral for the state AND it’s businesses and residents. Consider this budget for a typical guided elk hunt with a Wyoming outfitter, Wyoming special elk tag; $1200. Plane ticket; $600. Typical guided hunt with an outfitter; $8,000. Two nights hotel stay (one before and one after the hunt) ; $300. 20% suggested tip for the guide, cook and outfitter; $1,600. Meat processing; $300. Meat shipping; $300. Taxidermy and shipping ; $1500. Rental car; $500. A few meals at Wyoming restaurants, incidentals, souvenirs and a stop at the liquor store; $1,000. I think that all adds up to $15,300. And nearly all of it stays in Wyoming when I leave. MULTIPLY $15,300 X THE NUMBER OF NR HUNTERS HUNTING WITH AN OUTFITTER AND ITS GOING TO BE A BIG, BIG, BIG NUMBER. That total economic impact is what your legislature is going to look at.

Mackey
Germantown, TN
 

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
6,093
But not everyone uses a outfitter. Some share points and gps locations and that money is collected in another state.

Last year hunting montnana i spent maybe $60 in montnana. $30 for a meal and $30 for windsheild wipers.. I guess montnana also got $676.76 for my license. Everything else was paid for in wyoming

Plenty of wyo residents hunt across the state for antelope and other game. Add your fuel, food and lodging it adds up. I need to tally up my cost for elk. Between diesel fuel, tires for the trailer, vet bills, shoes for the horses,tack and well etc. Etc. Etc . I also know a ton of residents that use outfitters for their moose,sheep,goat and elk.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
But not everyone uses a outfitter. Some share points and gps locations and that money is collected in another state.

Last year hunting montnana i spent maybe $60 in montnana. $30 for a meal and $30 for windsheild wipers.. I guess montnana also got $676.76 for my license. Everything else was paid for in wyoming

Plenty of wyo residents hunt across the state for antelope and other game. Add your fuel, food and lodging it adds up. I need to tally up my cost for elk. Between diesel fuel, tires for the trailer, vet bills, shoes for the horses,tack and well etc. Etc. Etc . I also know a ton of residents that use outfitters for their moose,sheep,goat and elk.
Windshield wipers? Wtf it doesn’t rain in wyo?
 

PLK

Active Member
Messages
254
Buzz,

Do you think there will be revenue lost from NR who decide to stop buying preference points for various species?
 

mta5672

Active Member
Messages
445
I actually hope the 2nd draw goes through to Wyo res only! The funny thing is Wyo res want more tags but aren't willing to pay higher prices to make up the difference!

Fewer nonres mean less additional $ to local economies that are currently struggling with covid and poor oil/gas! Wyo res will buy the same groceries, etc whether they hunt or not!

I've never complained that nonres in Colo have 30% of deer, elk, and antelope tags in most units. Nonres bring big $ to the CPW and local economies! We welcome nonres hunters in Colo with open arms!
Residents are supporting the local economies 365 days a year.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Hymm... Look like an arm of Mountain Pursuits, not sure I can support the group. Mainly due to their stance on predator's and predator hunting. As much as I would support 90/10 resident split, I don't think I can lay in that bed.
 

Deercy

New Member
Messages
3
This subject comes up a lot. I love to hunt. I want my children to get the opportunity to spend time with me in the outdoors. Believe it or not, as passionate about it as I am, several of my friends and myself included are cutting back on applications as a result of cost. If opportunity vs cost gets to much distance we will cut more. I'm applying with two young sons now, and it's borderline irresponsible how much I've spent. I'm not going to lead a revolution, I'll just quietly step out. And the distance between hunters vs antis will be that much less.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
2,057
This subject comes up a lot. I love to hunt. I want my children to get the opportunity to spend time with me in the outdoors. Believe it or not, as passionate about it as I am, several of my friends and myself included are cutting back on applications as a result of cost. If opportunity vs cost gets to much distance we will cut more. I'm applying with two young sons now, and it's borderline irresponsible how much I've spent. I'm not going to lead a revolution, I'll just quietly step out. And the distance between hunters vs antis will be that much less.
If cost becomes the difference between me, my kids and grandkids hunting, I'll mortgage the house. Hunting in my family is not about the money.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
2,057
Hymm... Look like an arm of Mountain Pursuits, not sure I can support the group. Mainly due to their stance on predator's and predator hunting. As much as I would support 90/10 resident split, I don't think I can lay in that bed.
To clarify, what do you mean? You don't support 90/10 because of Mountain Pursuits?
 

Deercy

New Member
Messages
3
If cost becomes the difference between me, my kids and grandkids hunting, I'll mortgage the house. Hunting in my family is not about the
It is for me until it's not fun anymore. If it gets to where I'm causing my family stress and asking them to sacrifice for me and what I want it's not fun. I've got a mortgage, I've got kids that need braces,there isn't a simple solution. I apply in Wyoming and took cade my 13 year old there for a doe antelope hunt last year. Fun. Stopped at a check station on the way out. It had been windy and I had told cade to keep the tag in his pocket. Check station officer was friendly and more concerned that cade had fun. Nice. My wife tolerates my hunting and even participates occasionally. She did comment once that we run into more rude people when we are hunting than when we hike or camp. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that there is limited supply and its getting to be more of a competitive sport than it should be. Musings of a roofer.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
To clarify, what do you mean? You don't support 90/10 because of Mountain Pursuits?
The group linked by the op, appears to be Mountain Pursuits affiliated, ran by Rob Shaul. As such I am going to be very careful to support the "307Hunter" group as I do not see the clear line between the 2 and they appear to be one in the same. I am not confident that my money would only go to support 90/10 and not be used to ban coyote hunts, bear baiting, trail cameras or anything else the elites at Mountain Pursuit deem unethical (pretty sure they will at some point take a stance on hound hunting, and trapping as well).

I totally support the 90/10 just not willing to jump into bed with Mountain Pursuits to get threre... Now if I knew 100% that my money and my efforts only went to this battle and in no way be used to ban electronic calls for coyotes, then I might help this cause/ In the meantime I will keep my money and use my voice in support of the 90/10.
 

fullcry

Active Member
Messages
605
How much did they say they were making off of
Preference Points alone? 9-12 million a year with the interest?
Isn’t that why they are stretching out the application date to the Draw date?
And any of us think we have a say!
LOL
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
It is for me until it's not fun anymore. If it gets to where I'm causing my family stress and asking them to sacrifice for me and what I want it's not fun. I've got a mortgage, I've got kids that need braces,there isn't a simple solution. I apply in Wyoming and took cade my 13 year old there for a doe antelope hunt last year. Fun. Stopped at a check station on the way out. It had been windy and I had told cade to keep the tag in his pocket. Check station officer was friendly and more concerned that cade had fun. Nice. My wife tolerates my hunting and even participates occasionally. She did comment once that we run into more rude people when we are hunting than when we hike or camp. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that there is limited supply and its getting to be more of a competitive sport than it should be. Musings of a roofer.

There is a simple solution, make more money. It's really not that hard. If you're questioning the expense of hunting out of state those thoughts you're having are because of YOU. Not the state of WY for raising tag prices but YOU. You chose to buy a house, have kids and be a roofer. If your dream is to take your family hunting out of state than do something about your current situation to make that happen. Make more money. You said you're a roofer. Are you working for someone or yourself? Can you afford to take some college classes to get out of that trade? Maybe do a couple roofs on the side to get money to set aside for out of state? Does the wife work? What can you do to your current situation to make it so you can offset those costs of going on vacation. Yes your hunting trip out of state (or in state for that matter) is a vacation. If you have an illusion it's necessity to put meat on the table you're wrong. Even hunting the back 40 its most likely cheaper to buy your meat from the store.

Hunting is as expensive or as cheap as you make it. Does a guy need leupold scopes etc for maybe 5 shots a year on animals? Nope. But for many of us its the bare minimum. You could get by just fine with a bushnell. Fancy hunting clothes? Nope. You can hunt in blue jeans. You can keep hunting cheap by hunting only in state. Maximize your resident benefits. Sure maybe some years you will not have a big game tag if you live in a state that sucks. But I bet there's plenty of small game and bird opportunities to keep the kids engaged. Where I live I can hunt moose caribou etc with free tag in my pocket and a tank of gas. My first dall sheep cost around 125 in gas. Walked in for many reasons but mainly to save $$$. Since then I've flown in a time or two. Usually cost me 1500. Its not an every year thing. This year? I've paid 5k already in flights for the fall hunting. That doesn't count any out of state hunts. Why am I spending 5k. Because this moose vacation i'm taking I don't want to see people. I'm also taking some friends from out of state caribou hunting and again we don't want to hear a motor for 7 days. Probably next year I'll access moose and sheep hunting via truck. Expensive vs cheap but you're still out there hunting and thats all that matters.

I'm not the best for shelling out financial advice but you know you're doing it right when the problem mutates from hunting being too expensive to not having the time to go hunting. Sadly when many get to that point their body has more issues on the dream hunt (example sheep hunting). When you have more money than time you spend money you wouldn't of 10 years ago on stuff like desert sheep raffles, colorado ram raffles, commissioner tag raffles etc. And then you feel like a whore because your main hunting buddy can't go because he didn't better his situation and you have to find new hunting buddies. Other guys that have done what you have and built up hunting stability with having the $$$$ + the time.....

Make money while you sleep and you'll never have to cry that hunting is expensive again. Thats a promise. And the 90/10 wont even bother you because you'll but too busy hunting. Facts...

-Enso (i'll do anything for a desert sheep tag. Anything, so if you have one lets talk) 420 friendly and from WY. You know what that means. Anything for a desert sheep tag. Anything....
 

Deercy

New Member
Messages
3
There is a simple solution, make more money. It's really not that hard. If you're questioning the expense of hunting out of state those thoughts you're having are because of YOU. Not the state of WY for raising tag prices but YOU. You chose to buy a house, have kids and be a roofer. If your dream is to take your family hunting out of state than do something about your current situation to make that happen. Make more money. You said you're a roofer. Are you working for someone or yourself? Can you afford to take some college classes to get out of that trade? Maybe do a couple roofs on the side to get money to set aside for out of state? Does the wife work? What can you do to your current situation to make it so you can offset those costs of going on vacation. Yes your hunting trip out of state (or in state for that matter) is a vacation. If you have an illusion it's necessity to put meat on the table you're wrong. Even hunting the back 40 its most likely cheaper to buy your meat from the store.

Hunting is as expensive or as cheap as you make it. Does a guy need leupold scopes etc for maybe 5 shots a year on animals? Nope. But for many of us its the bare minimum. You could get by just fine with a bushnell. Fancy hunting clothes? Nope. You can hunt in blue jeans. You can keep hunting cheap by hunting only in state. Maximize your resident benefits. Sure maybe some years you will not have a big game tag if you live in a state that sucks. But I bet there's plenty of small game and bird opportunities to keep the kids engaged. Where I live I can hunt moose caribou etc with free tag in my pocket and a tank of gas. My first dall sheep cost around 125 in gas. Walked in for many reasons but mainly to save $$$. Since then I've flown in a time or two. Usually cost me 1500. Its not an every year thing. This year? I've paid 5k already in flights for the fall hunting. That doesn't count any out of state hunts. Why am I spending 5k. Because this moose vacation i'm taking I don't want to see people. I'm also taking some friends from out of state caribou hunting and again we don't want to hear a motor for 7 days. Probably next year I'll access moose and sheep hunting via truck. Expensive vs cheap but you're still out there hunting and thats all that matters.

I'm not the best for shelling out financial advice but you know you're doing it right when the problem mutates from hunting being too expensive to not having the time to go hunting. Sadly when many get to that point their body has more issues on the dream hunt (example sheep hunting). When you have more money than time you spend money you wouldn't of 10 years ago on stuff like desert sheep raffles, colorado ram raffles, commissioner tag raffles etc. And then you feel like a whore because your main hunting buddy can't go because he didn't better his situation and you have to find new hunting buddies. Other guys that have done what you have and built up hunting stability with having the $$$$ + the time.....

Make money while you sleep and you'll never have to cry that hunting is expensive again. Thats a promise. And the 90/10 wont even bother you because you'll but too busy hunting. Facts...

-Enso (i'll do anything for a desert sheep tag. Anything, so if you have one lets talk) 420 friendly and from WY. You know what that means. Anything for a desert sheep tag. Anything....
Judgemental? I swung in for a few and I'm out. Wow.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Hymm... Look like an arm of Mountain Pursuits, not sure I can support the group. Mainly due to their stance on predator's and predator hunting. As much as I would support 90/10 resident split, I don't think I can lay in that bed.
You will never agree with everything any lobbying action group endorses but at least they aren’t overpaid professionals like Muley Fanatic Foundation and many others soaking up a cool $132,000 salary but more of a grass roots effort mostly all volunteer force to try and help resident DIY hunters.
 

jm77

Very Active Member
Messages
2,057
Judgemental? I swung in for a few and I'm out. Wow.
4d91f1a568e7c80919fe52a733e5e7bf.jpg
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
You will never agree with everything any lobbying action group endorses but at least they aren’t overpaid professionals like Muley Fanatic Foundation and many others soaking up a cool $132,000 salary but more of a grass roots effort mostly all volunteer force to try and help resident DIY hunters.
I get that and agree about MFF. But not about to sacrifice predator hunts, ecallers, baiting for bears... Coming from a state where predator hunters are constantly attacked, I will not support that here...
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
I get that and agree about MFF. But not about to sacrifice predator hunts, ecallers, baiting for bears... Coming from a state where predator hunters are constantly attacked, I will not support that here...
Mountain pursuit surely endorses predator hunting. You are misinformed. We will never agree 100% on all issues but a grass roots mostly all volunteer group which promotes the focus of traditional fair chase practices and hunting ethics and seem to be waylaid by out of control current technological advances. They also think license allocations should be more resident-focused hence the push for 90/10. The alternative is professional extremely expensive and overpaid lobbyists who never really deliver any benefits to resident DIY hunters like MFF senior officials making 132K per year and the other wildlife advocate groups make similar salaries. The alternative is wasting our contribution dollars and having the Outfitter Industry run our political system and tag allocation process. Sometimes it’s time to circle the wagons. https://www.307hunter.com/articles/why-did-the-wyoming-wildlife-federation-betray-resident-hunters
 
Last edited:

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Mountain pursuit surely endorses predator hunting. You are misinformed. We will never agree 100% on all issues but a grass roots mostly all volunteer group which promotes the focus of traditional fair chase practices and hunting ethics and seem to be waylaid by out of control current technological advances. They also think license allocations should be more resident-focused hence the push for 90/10. The alternative is professional extremely expensive and overpaid lobbyists who never really deliver any benefits to resident DIY hunters like MFF senior officials making 132K per year and the other wildlife advocate groups make similar salaries. The alternative is wasting our contribution dollars and having the Outfitter Industry run our political system and tag allocation process. Sometimes it’s time to circle the wagons. https://www.307hunter.com/articles/why-did-the-wyoming-wildlife-federation-betray-resident-hunte
I am not willing to give up baiting for bears, e-callers and predator hunts. I see nothing wrong with those items and they are the backbone of what Mountain Pursuits stand for...
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
I am not willing to give up baiting for bears, e-callers and predator hunts. I see nothing wrong with those items and they are the backbone of what Mountain Pursuits stand for...
Fail. You are misinformed. They support predator hunting full on though bear baiting is controversial but that’s just a very small issue of 307 hunter platform. Currently the focus is 90/10. You can read their platform yourself.

4. Uncontrolled coyote populations are a proven threat to mule deer, antelope, sage grouse and other big and small game species especially during the vulnerable late Spring, early Summer birthing and hatching periods.

5. Uncontrolled coyote populations are proven to damage sheep and cattle ranching operations. In response, many Western states and counties have Predator Control Boards or similar and hire contract hunters to cull coyote populations. “. https://www.mtnpursuit.org/latest/mountain-pursuits-standards-for-ethical-coyote-hunting
 

grosventrehunter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,391
Not sure there is a group out there I would agree with on every single issue, just not going to happen. One reason I would never become a life member of any organization. If I agree, I let them know by sending in my yearly dues, if not they get nothing but an email.

Did I mention MFF and Eastman's suck and would never get my money. It always makes me laugh when I hear Guy say, DIY public land is the only way to hunt bulls$!&.
 

Bob D.

Very Active Member
Messages
1,573
I've hunted deer over bait (apples) here in Washington. It's actually not easy at all. They almost always come in only at night. Especially the bucks.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Fail. You are misinformed. They support predator hunting full on though bear baiting is controversial but that’s just a very small issue of 307 hunter platform. Currently the focus is 90/10. You can read their platform yourself.

4. Uncontrolled coyote populations are a proven threat to mule deer, antelope, sage grouse and other big and small game species especially during the vulnerable late Spring, early Summer birthing and hatching periods.

5. Uncontrolled coyote populations are proven to damage sheep and cattle ranching operations. In response, many Western states and counties have Predator Control Boards or similar and hire contract hunters to cull coyote populations. “. https://www.mtnpursuit.org/latest/mountain-pursuits-standards-for-ethical-coyote-hunting
Nope not at all... They are specifically against any organized hunt for coyotes. That is what is meant by a coyote hunt. They oppose organized hunts. They also oppose electronic callers for predators, and as mentioned bear baits.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Time for bear baiting to go. Would you hunt deer over bait? Go to texas. Shooting black bears over donuts etc is lame 😂
Nope you are incorrect. Have you ever tried running a bait station for bears? Have you ever hunted over one? Sorry but the use of bait is biologically important. It allows for targeted harvest of specific animals, it allows hunters to determine sex, age, size, etc. More importantly it along with hound hunting is the only true way to control bear populations and keep them in check with the habitat. With out hounds and bait there is not a state wildlife agency that has kept the bear populations at objective.

So regardless of how I feel about fair chase I realize that predator hunts, ecallers, bait piles, hounds are all important tools needed and used by professional biologist to maintain populations objective. Eliminating those options will lead to issues...
 

Sierra

Active Member
Messages
985
These left leaning “hunting” groups pick hot topic issues (e.g., 90/10) to garner support for their group and lefty ideas. They tried this in NM and are now trying it in WY. They will start with baiting and then keep chipping away.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
Nope you are incorrect. Have you ever tried running a bait station for bears? Have you ever hunted over one? Sorry but the use of bait is biologically important. It allows for targeted harvest of specific animals, it allows hunters to determine sex, age, size, etc. More importantly it along with hound hunting is the only true way to control bear populations and keep them in check with the habitat. With out hounds and bait there is not a state wildlife agency that has kept the bear populations at objective.

So regardless of how I feel about fair chase I realize that predator hunts, ecallers, bait piles, hounds are all important tools needed and used by professional biologist to maintain populations objective. Eliminating those options will lead to issues...
I have chose to not hunt bears over bait. It’s goes against my ethics/morals. But yes I have sat on bear bait stations.

You’re implying that spot and stalk hunters cannot target a specific class of animal? You are very wrong. I would offer the counter argument that spot and stalk hunters have more experience in judging bears than the average bear baiter. It’s a biased assumption just like yours. My reasoning is bubba ( that’s you) has a bait station and Bobby who has no experience wants a bear. Bubba lets Bobby go sit on his pile of food that humans shouldn’t even eat. Now if bubba was out hiking the mountains Bobby would quickly realize he doesn’t want a bear as bad as he thought.

You think it’s biologically ok to give bears people food? How are bears suppose to know that after bear season is closed they are not suppose to eat donuts and dog food?

Could you provide any literature on bear baiting is biologically important?

Also you didn’t answer my question originally, would you hunt deer over bait? And by bait I mean stuff like from a feeder or maybe a pile of apples?

Thanks for your time!
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
Nope not at all... They are specifically against any organized hunt for coyotes. That is what is meant by a coyote hunt. They oppose organized hunts. They also oppose electronic callers for predators, and as mentioned bear baits.
Organized coyote contests give a sore eye to hunters especially with social media. Being anti coyote contest is a far cry from being anti predator management.
 

DirtyTough

Active Member
Messages
435
Also you didn’t answer my question originally, would you hunt deer over bait? And by bait I mean stuff like from a feeder or maybe a pile of apples?

Thanks for your time!
With that question I'm curious on your position of using dogs for bears and cats? Obviously most hunters would be against using dogs to chase deer, elk, moose, etc, but are fine with them for bears and cats.

And if I am reading too much into that leading question of yours then I apologize.

Regards, Branden
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
These left leaning “hunting” groups pick hot topic issues (e.g., 90/10) to garner support for their group and lefty ideas. They tried this in NM and are now trying it in WY. They will start with baiting and then keep chipping away.
307 Hunter is certainly NOT a left leaning hunting group of any sort. This is a grass roots, mostly all volunteer DIY hunter group and the leader Rob Shaul is a fifth generation Wyomingite. The Outfitters have stacked the deck against Wyoming DIY hunters and this group is pushing back hard for Wyoming Resident hunters. Sure they may not agree with all of your own political leanings and hunting agenda but by and large it’s time we Circle the Wagons and try and get what every Western state has on par ie that of 90/10 of the premium hunting tags going to Residents. No Western state allows 25% of premium tags like sheep and buffalo to go to NR. The new Wyoming Governor formed
Taskforce won’t begin meeting until this summer, and has a 12-month run time. So even if by some miracle recommendations benefitting resident hunters do get traction, it will be 24 months before any changes could be made.

Meanwhile, far too many priceless big game limited quota tags are going to nonresident hunters – which is good for the land-leasing ranchers, motel owners and the outfitters. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2021/0...e-taskforce-stacked-against-resident-hunters/
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
With that question I'm curious on your position of using dogs for bears and cats? Obviously most hunters would be against using dogs to chase deer, elk, moose, etc, but are fine with them for bears and cats.

And if I am reading too much into that leading question of yours then I apologize.

Regards, Branden
In Wyoming that question has already been answered.

Use of any dog to hunt, run or harass any big or trophy game animal, protected animal or furbearing animal except as otherwise provided by statute. The Commission shall regulate the use of dogs to take mountain lions and bobcats during hunting or trapping seasons. https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Regulations/Regulation-PDFs/REGULATIONS_CH3_BROCHURE.pdf
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
I have chose to not hunt bears over bait. It’s goes against my ethics/morals. But yes I have sat on bear bait stations.

You’re implying that spot and stalk hunters cannot target a specific class of animal? You are very wrong. I would offer the counter argument that spot and stalk hunters have more experience in judging bears than the average bear baiter. It’s a biased assumption just like yours. My reasoning is bubba ( that’s you) has a bait station and Bobby who has no experience wants a bear. Bubba lets Bobby go sit on his pile of food that humans shouldn’t even eat. Now if bubba was out hiking the mountains Bobby would quickly realize he doesn’t want a bear as bad as he thought.

You think it’s biologically ok to give bears people food? How are bears suppose to know that after bear season is closed they are not suppose to eat donuts and dog food?

Could you provide any literature on bear baiting is biologically important?

Also you didn’t answer my question originally, would you hunt deer over bait? And by bait I mean stuff like from a feeder or maybe a pile of apples?

Thanks for your time!
Look at states that have went to only spot and stalk. The data from those states paint a significantly different picture than from data in states with hounds and baiting. Look at the bear population in such states where bait, has been eliminated. The data does not lie, Colorado, California, New York, New jersey, etc. I challenge you to look at the data yourself and tell me what bear management look like and what does is cause. Biologically important, yes in the extent to which it allows game managers the ability to keep the population down.

Simply put look at what has occured in Colorado. Colorado had a stable and healthy bear population at around 9,000 bears when the hunting bans went into place. The current state population objective is 9,000-12,000 bears. That tis the number professional biologist want to have in the state based on habitat etc. Currently the CPW admits to having 24,000 plus bears with many in the CPW putting the total bear population over 30,000. In Colorado a person can harvest 3 bears a year if they want and licenses are cheap. Including a reduced prices for NR. They essentially have unlimited hunting for bears in the state. Despite that the CPW can not stop the population from growing, they sure in hell can not kill the 20,000 surplus bears using just spot and stalk hunting.

Instead the state spends tons of man hours, and money killing bears in dumpsters, in bird feeders, in houses, cars, garages, etc. All because baiting and hounds are proven to be the single best method of bear population control.

No I will not argue that feeding bears human food is the best thing for them biologically, that is silly. But I will argue that baiting while potentially detrimental to the individual, is more beneficial to the population and habitat. Thus the the negative out weighs the positive...
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Nope not at all... They are specifically against any organized hunt for coyotes. That is what is meant by a coyote hunt. They oppose organized hunts. They also oppose electronic callers for predators, and as mentioned bear baits.
First you state they are against predator hunting. Now you feebly attempt to qualify your position as it has been demonstrated as FALLACIOUS. Get your Facts straight.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,782
Montana is spot and stalk only, they seem to kill good numbers of bears. NW Wyoming is largely spot and stalk as well...plenty get killed in that part of the state.

I see no problems with continued baiting in areas/states that it exists...but to imply that bears can not be hunted successfully without hounds and bait isnt really true either.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Look at states that have went to only spot and stalk. The data from those states paint a significantly different picture than from data in states with hounds and baiting. Look at the bear population in such states where bait, has been eliminated. The data does not lie, Colorado, California, New York, New jersey, etc. I challenge you to look at the data yourself and tell me what bear management look like and what does is cause. Biologically important, yes in the extent to which it allows game managers the ability to keep the population down.

Simply put look at what has occured in Colorado. Colorado had a stable and healthy bear population at around 9,000 bears when the hunting bans went into place. The current state population objective is 9,000-12,000 bears. That tis the number professional biologist want to have in the state based on habitat etc. Currently the CPW admits to having 24,000 plus bears with many in the CPW putting the total bear population over 30,000. In Colorado a person can harvest 3 bears a year if they want and licenses are cheap. Including a reduced prices for NR. They essentially have unlimited hunting for bears in the state. Despite that the CPW can not stop the population from growing, they sure in hell can not kill the 20,000 surplus bears using just spot and stalk hunting.

Instead the state spends tons of man hours, and money killing bears in dumpsters, in bird feeders, in houses, cars, garages, etc. All because baiting and hounds are proven to be the single best method of bear population control.

No I will not argue that feeding bears human food is the best thing for them biologically, that is silly. But I will argue that baiting while potentially detrimental to the individual, is more beneficial to the population and habitat. Thus the the negative out weighs the positive...
Colorado hunting is long term doomed with their new Wolf policy. It won’t matter soon in Colorado regarding bear baiting as there Big Game hunting will spiral downhill as Wolf numbers grow exponentially there. The southern Wyoming border with Colorado will likely get a boost in Big game numbers as Wolves are eliminated as predators and Big Game populations migrate to safe haven areas.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
Look at states that have went to only spot and stalk. The data from those states paint a significantly different picture than from data in states with hounds and baiting. Look at the bear population in such states where bait, has been eliminated. The data does not lie, Colorado, California, New York, New jersey, etc. I challenge you to look at the data yourself and tell me what bear management look like and what does is cause. Biologically important, yes in the extent to which it allows game managers the ability to keep the population down.

Simply put look at what has occured in Colorado. Colorado had a stable and healthy bear population at around 9,000 bears when the hunting bans went into place. The current state population objective is 9,000-12,000 bears. That tis the number professional biologist want to have in the state based on habitat etc. Currently the CPW admits to having 24,000 plus bears with many in the CPW putting the total bear population over 30,000. In Colorado a person can harvest 3 bears a year if they want and licenses are cheap. Including a reduced prices for NR. They essentially have unlimited hunting for bears in the state. Despite that the CPW can not stop the population from growing, they sure in hell can not kill the 20,000 surplus bears using just spot and stalk hunting.

Instead the state spends tons of man hours, and money killing bears in dumpsters, in bird feeders, in houses, cars, garages, etc. All because baiting and hounds are proven to be the single best method of bear population control.

No I will not argue that feeding bears human food is the best thing for them biologically, that is silly. But I will argue that baiting while potentially detrimental to the individual, is more beneficial to the population and habitat. Thus the the negative out weighs the positive...
Tristate96,
Please answer my questions in the previous posts.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
With that question I'm curious on your position of using dogs for bears and cats? Obviously most hunters would be against using dogs to chase deer, elk, moose, etc, but are fine with them for bears and cats.

And if I am reading too much into that leading question of yours then I apologize.

Regards, Branden
Great question. I’m ok with the use of hounds etc based off what I do know about it. I have no idea experience using them. With that said I could see the non hunter having issues with using dogs for hunting. Where does one draw the line? Birds? Cats? I dunno.

But I’d would rather chase an animal with dogs than shoot it over a donut. Not that I would do either.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
307 Hunter is certainly NOT a left leaning hunting group of any sort. This is a grass roots, mostly all volunteer DIY hunter group and the leader Rob Shaul is a fifth generation Wyomingite. The Outfitters have stacked the deck against Wyoming DIY hunters and this group is pushing back hard for Wyoming Resident hunters. Sure they may not agree with all of your own political leanings and hunting agenda but by and large it’s time we Circle the Wagons and try and get what every Western state has on par ie that of 90/10 of the premium hunting tags going to Residents. No Western state allows 25% of premium tags like sheep and buffalo to go to NR. The new Wyoming Governor formed
Taskforce won’t begin meeting until this summer, and has a 12-month run time. So even if by some miracle recommendations benefitting resident hunters do get traction, it will be 24 months before any changes could be made.

Meanwhile, far too many priceless big game limited quota tags are going to nonresident hunters – which is good for the land-leasing ranchers, motel owners and the outfitters. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2021/0...e-taskforce-stacked-against-resident-hunters/
HAHA... Not left leaning? The president of the group is on record speaking against ecallers, baiting, etc. Once those are gone what will he need to attack next? Again sorry but I do not
Montana is spot and stalk only, they seem to kill good numbers of bears. NW Wyoming is largely spot and stalk as well...plenty get killed in that part of the state.

I see no problems with continued baiting in areas/states that it exists...but to imply that bears can not be hunted successfully without hounds and bait isnt really true either.
I will give you that Montana is an exception, but the interesting thing looking at MT is that the bear season is really long when you add it all up. Months in the spring and months in the fall. So I suppose that if Colorado and other states were able to have multi month spring season and a multi month fall season it would not be as much of a need. But when you cut hounds and bait without a massive increase in season length it goes south.

Also I would still argue that individual success vs biological goals can be the driver. I have killed bears without hounds or bait in Colorado. But Colorado has proven that they can not solve the bear population issue without the extra tools of baiting and hounds.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Colorado hunting is long term doomed with their new Wolf policy. It won’t matter soon in Colorado regarding bear baiting as there Big Game hunting will spiral downhill as Wolf numbers grow exponentially there. The southern Wyoming border with Colorado will likely get a boost in Big game numbers as Wolves are eliminated as predators and Big Game populations migrate to safe haven areas.
HAHA and how do you think that hunting in Colorado started down the path of being doomed? What do you think happened first in the state.... They first started off with a trapping ban, then a hound ban, then a baiting ban (all passed at the same relative time), then a spring hunt ban, then a coyote hunt ban, now they are looking at bans on bobcats all together, no live traps, etc.

If anything Colorado should serve as the prime example for what I argue. They will always want more. Groups like Mountain Pursuit will move onto the next item if they solve the issues currently making them money. If mountain pursuit all of the sudden saw coyote hunts gone, ecallers gone, trail cameras gone and bait hunting gone, would they just give up and say our work here is done? Or would they continue to look for new sources to make revenue? Would the next attack hounds? Traps? Tree stands? Using Decoys? Mouth calls? Sitting water holes? or????

That is the problem do we really want to hunt support "Hunting" Groups that are actively seeking to limit our hunting opportunity?
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,782
HAHA... Not left leaning? The president of the group is on record speaking against ecallers, baiting, etc. Once those are gone what will he need to attack next? Again sorry but I do not

I will give you that Montana is an exception, but the interesting thing looking at MT is that the bear season is really long when you add it all up. Months in the spring and months in the fall. So I suppose that if Colorado and other states were able to have multi month spring season and a multi month fall season it would not be as much of a need. But when you cut hounds and bait without a massive increase in season length it goes south.

Also I would still argue that individual success vs biological goals can be the driver. I have killed bears without hounds or bait in Colorado. But Colorado has proven that they can not solve the bear population issue without the extra tools of baiting and hounds.
Since when did hunters wanting certain hunting regulations imposed on themselves become "left leaning"?

I have no desire to see Wyoming allow hounds for running elk or deer. Does that mean since I don't want that allowed here I'm labeled as left leaning?

It gets ridiculous that every issue, regulation, whatever turns into a left, right, conservative, liberal, argument when it has exactly zero do with that.

It's not even fair to say that many of the trapping bans or elimination of certain hunting seasons via legislation are all about D/R lines. Its not...I can assure you, a lot of very conservative R type upland bird hunters with dogs have NO problem voting to end trapping on public ground.

Guys that are hard-core spot and stalk bear hunters that vote R are more than willing to not want bear baiting or hound hunting...and aren't afraid to voice their opinions accordingly.

Many of these issues are stand along arguments, pro and con coming from all walks of life, all political affiliations, etc.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
As for wolves in Colorado. If Mountain Pursuit wanted to put a bounty on any wolf killed in WY within 100 miles of Colorado Border, then and maybe then I could stomach the group and support their cause. Also I will commend mountain pursuit on it opposition to the One shot hunt (makes me pretty unpopular in my local town).
 

DirtyTough

Active Member
Messages
435
In Wyoming that question has already been answered.

Use of any dog to hunt, run or harass any big or trophy game animal, protected animal or furbearing animal except as otherwise provided by statute. The Commission shall regulate the use of dogs to take mountain lions and bobcats during hunting or trapping seasons. https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Regulations/Regulation-PDFs/REGULATIONS_CH3_BROCHURE.pdf
That’s not the point. SS says he doesn’t think bears should be baited. Then asked a leading question imo. So I was curious his opinion on using dogs for bear and cat hunting.
 

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
3,782
As for wolves in Colorado. If Mountain Pursuit wanted to put a bounty on any wolf killed in WY within 100 miles of Colorado Border, then and maybe then I could stomach the group and support their cause. Also I will commend mountain pursuit on it opposition to the One shot hunt (makes me pretty unpopular in my local town).
Welcome to belonging to a "group" with a membership of exactly ONE person.

Good luck with that...
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
HAHA... Not left leaning? The president of the group is on record speaking against ecallers, baiting, etc. Once those are gone what will he need to attack next? Again sorry but I do not

I will give you that Montana is an exception, but the interesting thing looking at MT is that the bear season is really long when you add it all up. Months in the spring and months in the fall. So I suppose that if Colorado and other states were able to have multi month spring season and a multi month fall season it would not be as much of a need. But when you cut hounds and bait without a massive increase in season length it goes south.

Also I would still argue that individual success vs biological goals can be the driver. I have killed bears without hounds or bait in Colorado. But Colorado has proven that they can not solve the bear population issue without the extra tools of baiting and hounds.
Who says Colorado has a bear problem? You the armchair biologist that has done a peer reviewed study that baiting bears makes sense biologically? 😅😅😅😂😂🤣
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
HAHA... Not left leaning? The president of the group is on record speaking against ecallers, baiting, etc. Once those are gone what will he need to attack next? Again sorry but I do not

I will give you that Montana is an exception, but the interesting thing looking at MT is that the bear season is really long when you add it all up. Months in the spring and months in the fall. So I suppose that if Colorado and other states were able to have multi month spring season and a multi month fall season it would not be as much of a need. But when you cut hounds and bait without a massive increase in season length it goes south.

Also I would still argue that individual success vs biological goals can be the driver. I have killed bears without hounds or bait in Colorado. But Colorado has proven that they can not solve the bear population issue without the extra tools of baiting and hounds.
Alaska also kills more bears by spot and stalk than bait.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
I will give you that Montana is an exception, but the interesting thing looking at MT is that the bear season is really long when you add it all up. Months in the spring and months in the fall. So I suppose that if Colorado and other states were able to have multi month spring season and a multi month fall season it would not be as much of a need. But when you cut hounds and bait without a massive increase in season length it goes south.

Also I would still argue that individual success vs biological goals can be the driver. I have killed bears without hounds or bait in Colorado. But Colorado has proven that they can not solve the bear population issue without the extra tools of baiting and hounds.

So now you’re saying this can be solved with just long seasons?

I’m glad you’ve finally agreed we don’t need to bait bears. It took ya awhile to get there but you did it!
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Getting back on topic, I don’t care if it’s RMEF, MDF, Muley Fanatics, Wyoming Outdoor Council, BHA, or Mountain Pursuit. If they support 90/10 its time to Circle the Wagons and stand up to the Outfitter Lobby. I have differences of opinion with any group but ALL RESIDENT DIY HUNTERS should be actively pushing and funding Groups which are actively engaged in fighting the Outfitter Lobby and securing what almost every Western state has on par even Colorado has 90/10 on Moose, Bighorn Sheep and Mountain Goat hunting. Arguing over minor issues of each individual group is merely dividing and conquering ourselves. United we stand, Divided we Fall.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
Yes because this issue isn't dividing hunters at all.
What is to be divisive about what every other Western state is now offering and Wyoming is just trying to become on par with every other Western state. Even Colorado has 90/10 for Moone, Bighorn sheep and Mountain goat. Wyoming has been far far too generous at the cost of Wyoming residents receiving many premium tags now just drifting away. We are just trying to NOT be divisive and get what we and every other state in the West is offering, ie United We Stand.
 

LivingTheDream

Active Member
Messages
189
Does 90-10 in Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, New Mexico, Arizona divide hunters?

Yeah, didn't think so, should be no different in Wyoming.

I'm pretty sure some people specifically cited the lack of New Mexico's NR tags as why they wouldn't be doing any outreach efforts regarding the trapping ban.
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
Since when did hunters wanting certain hunting regulations imposed on themselves become "left leaning"?

I have no desire to see Wyoming allow hounds for running elk or deer. Does that mean since I don't want that allowed here I'm labeled as left leaning?

It gets ridiculous that every issue, regulation, whatever turns into a left, right, conservative, liberal, argument when it has exactly zero do with that.

It's not even fair to say that many of the trapping bans or elimination of certain hunting seasons via legislation are all about D/R lines. Its not...I can assure you, a lot of very conservative R type upland bird hunters with dogs have NO problem voting to end trapping on public ground.

Guys that are hard-core spot and stalk bear hunters that vote R are more than willing to not want bear baiting or hound hunting...and aren't afraid to voice their opinions accordingly.

Many of these issues are stand along arguments, pro and con coming from all walks of life, all political affiliations, etc.
The first line in your argument is the problem. None of these regulations are imposed on themselves. You are not seeing hounds men call for no more hound hunting. You do not hear people who trap call for trapping bans. You do not hear anyone that is seriously into Coyote hunting calling for electronic call ban. What you have are people who do not practice those things calling for the bans.

As a kid in Colorado when spring bear hunt ban went into place, when trapping was changed, when baiting was done, the overwhelming answer and response I got when speaking out against the changes was: I don't trap not a big deal. I don't bait, not a big deal, I don't use hounds, not a big deal.

Why cant we have a standing where we all support each other even if it is not our cup of tea? I will admit there are things that I do not like and cant stand and things I have never done and likely never will do... For example ran hounds, but I am the never going to attack those that do... It is crazy how we have with in hunting our own little cancel culture...

I would always argue that everyone should support multi use of all public resources. Our public resources should be enjoyed for all sorts of activities by a wide variety of individuals all with different interest. Even as a gun dog owner for 20 years, I would never once support trapping limits because I hunt bird. Even as a spot and stalk hunter, I am not about to take away bait pile, blinds, tree stands, etc.

You might be right they are likely not "left" they just employ the policies of the left when it suits their needs...

I will also admit, it is a hard balancing act. One thing is for certain we all have things we do not agree with, things that maybe we we do not understand or never would do, but when do cross that line and call for its elimination?
 

elks96

Very Active Member
Messages
2,351
So now you’re saying this can be solved with just long seasons?

I’m glad you’ve finally agreed we don’t need to bait bears. It took ya awhile to get there but you did it!
haha. In one state we have a system where it might be working. Funny however that same state is constantly battling and trying to get hounds for hunting bears. The issue however is in states that ban bait, the next target is to eliminate the spring season. You know how unfair it is to hunt these poor sleepy bears as they wake up from nearly starving to death and they are just starving in the spring. It is sickening that anyone would hunt those creatures when they are so venerable. So lets make sure we have a fall only season. It is death by a thousand cuts and it plays out all over the country. Right now MT might just have a season structure that allows them to keep bears in check without baits, but I would venture that nearly no place else in North America with a significant bear population has had such luck.
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
The first line in your argument is the problem. None of these regulations are imposed on themselves. You are not seeing hounds men call for no more hound hunting. You do not hear people who trap call for trapping bans. You do not hear anyone that is seriously into Coyote hunting calling for electronic call ban. What you have are people who do not practice those things calling for the bans.

As a kid in Colorado when spring bear hunt ban went into place, when trapping was changed, when baiting was done, the overwhelming answer and response I got when speaking out against the changes was: I don't trap not a big deal. I don't bait, not a big deal, I don't use hounds, not a big deal.

Why cant we have a standing where we all support each other even if it is not our cup of tea? I will admit there are things that I do not like and cant stand and things I have never done and likely never will do... For example ran hounds, but I am the never going to attack those that do... It is crazy how we have with in hunting our own little cancel culture...

I would always argue that everyone should support multi use of all public resources. Our public resources should be enjoyed for all sorts of activities by a wide variety of individuals all with different interest. Even as a gun dog owner for 20 years, I would never once support trapping limits because I hunt bird. Even as a spot and stalk hunter, I am not about to take away bait pile, blinds, tree stands, etc.

You might be right they are likely not "left" they just employ the policies of the left when it suits their needs...

I will also admit, it is a hard balancing act. One thing is for certain we all have things we do not agree with, things that maybe we we do not understand or never would do, but when do cross that line and call for its elimination?
Jims96,
So you do support baiting of deer. That’s all I need to know.
 

highfastflyer

Active Member
Messages
436
The first line in your argument is the problem. None of these regulations are imposed on themselves. You are not seeing hounds men call for no more hound hunting. You do not hear people who trap call for trapping bans. You do not hear anyone that is seriously into Coyote hunting calling for electronic call ban. What you have are people who do not practice those things calling for the bans.

As a kid in Colorado when spring bear hunt ban went into place, when trapping was changed, when baiting was done, the overwhelming answer and response I got when speaking out against the changes was: I don't trap not a big deal. I don't bait, not a big deal, I don't use hounds, not a big deal.

Why cant we have a standing where we all support each other even if it is not our cup of tea? I will admit there are things that I do not like and cant stand and things I have never done and likely never will do... For example ran hounds, but I am the never going to attack those that do... It is crazy how we have with in hunting our own little cancel culture...

I would always argue that everyone should support multi use of all public resources. Our public resources should be enjoyed for all sorts of activities by a wide variety of individuals all with different interest. Even as a gun dog owner for 20 years, I would never once support trapping limits because I hunt bird. Even as a spot and stalk hunter, I am not about to take away bait pile, blinds, tree stands, etc.

You might be right they are likely not "left" they just employ the policies of the left when it suits their needs...

I will also admit, it is a hard balancing act. One thing is for certain we all have things we do not agree with, things that maybe we we do not understand or never would do, but when do cross that line and call for its elimination?
“What you have are people who do not practice those things calling for the bans.”
We all don’t need to beat our wives and practice bullying our kids to know certain things are just plain wrong and morally unacceptable. .
 

Slightlysober

Very Active Member
Messages
1,819
HAHA... And? Alaska is a completely different world than anything in the lower 48.
Ok jims. Go ahead and disregard anything that shoots holes in your opinion. Because after all, you sitting in your armchair typing all this word vomit is nothing but your opinion. We know you think it’s facts and you’ve peer reviewed your own opinion in your head but it’s still just your opinion.

But if it helps you jims to get back on track with this thread I’ll say something you’ve probably never heard. You’re right!
 

excavator

Active Member
Messages
322
Does 90-10 in Montana, Idaho, Nevada, Oregon, New Mexico, Arizona divide hunters?

Yeah, didn't think so, should be no different in Wyoming.

I don't think it is radical to think that Wyoming should offer more non-resident tags than the other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is the wealthiest western state when it comes to resident big game hunting opportunities. As a result, they have more (in terms of percentage of total tags) to share with those less fortunate non-residents than the other states do. Wyoming can afford to share a little more because they have more available to share. Wyoming is wealthy or rich when it comes to big game hunting.

This is similar to the progressive tax rate system we have in the United States. The wealthier are taxed at a higher rate than those that are not wealthy because they have more available to share with the less fortunate.

It seems to me Wyoming could afford to share a little more and still maintain a high quality level of hunting for their residents.



JMO
 

grosventrehunter

Very Active Member
Messages
1,391
I don't think it is radical to think that Wyoming should offer more non-resident tags than the other states. In fact, I would suggest it is an established concept.

Wyoming is the wealthiest western state when it comes to resident big game hunting opportunities. As a result, they have more (in terms of percentage of total tags) to share with those less fortunate non-residents than the other states do. Wyoming can afford to share a little more because they have more available to share. Wyoming is wealthy or rich when it comes to big game hunting.

This is similar to the progressive tax rate system we have in the United States. The wealthier are taxed at a higher rate than those that are not wealthy because they have more available to share with the less fortunate.

It seems to me Wyoming could afford to share a little more and still maintain a high quality level of hunting for their residents.



JMO
This is the type of person who voted for AOC and Biden. Now you know...
 

Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Badger Creek Outfitters

Offering elk, deer and pronghorn hunts on several privately owned ranches.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.

French Creek Outfitters

Quality mule deer, antelope and whitetail hunts on a 100k acre ranch.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.

Twisted Horn Outfitters

Offering public land mule deer, antelope and sheep hunts in multiple units and regions.


Yellowstone Horse Rentals - Western Wyoming Horses

High Uinta Pack Goats for Utah and Wyoming
Top Bottom