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Zen Rays

T

Timberdoodle

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Just wondering if any of you have had experience with Zen Ray Binocs and how they might compare to Vortex Razors, Nikon Monarch X, Minox HG, or similar mid-range type binoculars.
 
The newer Zen ED2s are beginning to ship now, so detailed reports ought to be coming in soon.

For the Zen ED:
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID27/1505.html

http://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-b...z=show_thread&om=1486&forum=DCForumID27&omm=0

Previously, I have compared my Zen 8x43 against the Nikon Monarch, Vortex Diamondback and Razor with a resolution chart. The Monarch and Diamondback were up to the competition, and soon went back to the shelf. The Razors and Zens were close, with my nod going to the Zens. The Razors showed some yellowish fringing around the black lines on the res chart. Resolution was equal in the center as far as I could discern.

Another time, several of us compared the Zen ED 8x to the EL 8.5x42. The big surprise to me was how the Zen ED 8x43 compare to the Swaro 8.5x42 ELs. Handheld, there was little apparent difference in view. Tripod mounted looking at the resolution chart, the Swaro was able to resolve only one block better. The Swaro had a smoother focus wheel and eye-cups that moved in/out with a higher/tighter tolerance. $360 vs $1699.

I did not check for flatness for field in these comparisons, nor was any testing done after dusk.

Doug~RR
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-09 AT 02:48PM (MST)[p]Just read through the thread here titled "Which One". It has neen thoroughly hashed out there and has all the information you need. No point in kicking that hornet's nest again here. There is also another thread here called something like "Zeissswaroleic quality" that is the same topic.
 
I just picked up a pair of the Zen ED2's in 10x43. I own and have used a Leica Trinovid 10x42 for over 10 years. I picked up the Zen out of curiousity more than anything, having read the reviews of the birders, hunters, and one particular outdoor writer (JB) that I trust. In short, I'm a big, big fan of the euros. So far I'm a big fan of the view in this Zen, as it superb, better resolution, contrast, and brighter than my beloved trinovid. Am I selling my Leica??? No way. Am I impressed with this Zen? You better believe it. It appears sturdy (time will tell on this), and well built.

One thing is for sure, the Germans and Austrians do not have a monopoly on superior optics. The Kowa Prominar spotters are considered the best in the world, the Nikon Superior SE is considered maybe the best in the world, and my Nikon 82Ed spotter is every bit as good as my neighbor's Zeiss 85 T FL.
 
Amongst hard core birders and benchrest guys there is a consensus. Kowa 883/884 gives the best view in the world. Proven fact.
 
If it is proven fact then it should be easy to verify. Please direct me to the source documentation so I can read for myself the basis for that conclusion.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-09 AT 09:05AM (MST)[p]Come on guy's, we all know the Simmons spotters are better than any! I always see twice as much game with it. When I look thru my Swaro I only see 2 sheep, when I look thru the Simmons I see 4. I can double my daily findings with this scope, it finds twins all the time!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-09 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-09 AT 09:31?AM (MST)

Try this one:

http://www.livingbird.org/netcommunity/bbimages/lb/pdf/ScopeChart2008.pdf


Snoop around here for a while:
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=286

As you know birdwatcher dudes are picky, very picky, as are benchrest shooters (snipershide forums are good sources also). I'm not going to tell you you'll see stuff with the Kowa that you won't see with a Zeiss/Swaro/Nikon. What makes you think you're the expert?

When you've read all that, try this one on for size:
http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/optiikkaarvostelu/optics_13_kowa883_GB.shtml
 
I have read the reviews and most of the comparisons and I have used the new Kowa. No question that they are very good and highly regarded but there are a couple others that are better according to testers depending on your criteria. For example, Cornells recent test said that the TeleVue gave the best image but was best used under a covered deck (like a benchrest shooter) because it doesn't have a waterproof housing. The same test says that the small Swaro delivers the best image per ounce making it best for field use.

I did not say that I was an expert. I am simply questioning your assertion that there was a consensus that the Kowas are the best scopes in the world. I am not sure that I agree.

As for me, primarily a Coues deer backpack style hunter, I think the Swaro STM65 with the 25-50 Wide eyepiece is the best.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
There is a consensus and I stated the sources. Each individual may agree or disagree. My point was the the euro guys do not have a monopoly on superior glass, and the Kowa, Nikon EDG, etc proves it, that's all.
 
The simple point is that every pair of human eyes are different. Take any two people with similar quality optics, and they may never both see the optic with the best test result off the optics bench as the best for them. Optics are a set of compromises,and as such, just like your firends, they all have their quirks. If there was a "clear cut best" that is all that would be for sale.

This is why the "try before you buy is so often recommended". Take any of the scopes you guys are talking about, and a group of people will split some way over which one is best.
 
Consensus means unanimous or general agreement and there is not with regard to image quality. The livingbird comparison you linked to rates the TeleVue image quality higher than the Kowa. So does Cornell.

Your opinion is that the Kowas have the best image quality and you are certainly not alone but there are those that don't agree. Cornell and Livingbird are two.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
FWIW, in the links I provided, the scope chart from Cornell's shows the Kowas, 883/773 with the highest scores/best views. The swaro pair of HD's 80/65 were great also. Here's another one for you that you probably haven't seen:

http://www.ehlert-partner.de/Birdwatching-Test-April 07.pdf

I'm out of ammo for you, but you asked for references. The point is you basically scoff at the idea of the Zen's being a potential threat to the alpha stuff, when in fact the Asians know just as much as anybody about making great optics. Are the Zen's there yet, probably not, Are they amazingly good, yes they are. Some euro lovers (I"m one of them by the way) just cannot accept that fact. In fact my Bushnell elite's are just as good optically as my Leica Trinovids and have held up very well, so it is possible. I'm one of those who believes the alpha stuff, Swaro EL, Leica Ultravid HD, Zeiss FL, Nikon EDG...are greatly overpriced nowadays with all the great options out there for substantially less money....Meopta comes to mind immediately.
 
I scoffed at the hyperbole over a glass that was virtually unknown to me and people in that business whom I regard as experts. After using then for some time I still don't see the reason for the enthusiastic support unless the special reduced price becomes the regular price. If that occurs then they are probably the best value on the market.

I hate to argue the little things but we were talking about your claim that there was a consensus that the Kowas had the best view or image in the world. The chart says that the Tele Vue Image rated as a 5.0 at both 20x and 60x which was the highest in the test and higher than the Kowas. The Kowas were the highest in the overall score. Am I misreading something?

I don't care where they come from or who makes them. I am not hung up on name brands but those are the ones we know best and the ones with history in things like customer service, warranty and quality so I tend to gravitate towards them. As for Asia vs. Europe, I am on record as saying that the Nikon EDG has the best picture quality on the market but I don't use them in the field because they are not availablle in a 50 or 56 mm objective and they don't work with my system (swaro 8.5x42 and 15x56 with a doubler).

It still all boils down to personal preference and our own unique eyes I spose. Chocolate vs. Vanilla. Ford vs. Chevy. Gas vs. Diesel.

Which Meoptas do you like?

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-09 AT 10:21AM (MST)[p]I consider John Barsness an expert. He's seen, handled, used, and looked through more glass than you or I will ever see. He raves about the Zen's also, comparing them favorably to his alpha stuff that he owns. One of my rancher buddy uses the 10x EL's and they are fantastic no doubt. Do they have a view that is $1200 superior to the Zen? Not hardly. I give the Zen 97% of what that particular EL is, and Swaro's service is legendary for sure. The Meopta Meostar 8x42 and 10x42's are fantastic and built like a tank. Which Zen did you use? I'm trying out the ED2 10x43's. I plan to get them wet, drag 'em through the sand, etc on my mule deer hunts this fall and then I'll know a little more about them. For now, the view through mine is superb.

The televue is hardly a hunters glass.
 
How do you know how much glass I have or have not looked through?

We weren't talking about hunters glass we were talking about best image. You said that there was a consensus among benchrest shooters and birders that the Kowa had the best image. I questioned that assertion.

If you want to talk about hunters glass then I guess we need to define hunting. What kind of hunting. If you are talking about my style of hunting where weight/size is an issue then I would gladly give up one or two tenths of a point in subjective image quality rating for the lighter weight of the Swaro STM HDs. I agree with Cornell that the Swaro offers the best image per ounce. And...I much prefer the Swaro 25-50Wide eyepiece.

Someone with another style of hunting may reach another conclusion.

Is it close? Yes. Are we splitting hairs? Yes.

I have the 8x43 Zen Ray ED and was told by Zen Ray "optically, you should see very similar performance between ZEN ED and ED2 lines" so I did not push for the ED2. 97% of the ELs? Boy, I just don't see that yet. If you are right then the world should be beating a path to their door because most people are not going to pay $1000 more for that last 3% that the ELs offer. I have both and I think the difference is greater than that. How much more, I am not prepared to say yet.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
I have personally looked at my buddies' EL, my neighbor's SLC, and my trinovid alongside my own Zen ED2. There's not a nickle's worth of difference between the EL(best) and my Zen. The SLC and trinovid are on par with each other also IMO.

You're right, I don't know how much glass you've looked through. JB has made his living doing it for 30 years so my money's on him.

The birders and benchrest guys do consider the Kowa #1, I could personally care less. My Nikon 82ED is 98% of the Kowa for 40% of the money. If I were coues deer hunting like you I'd probably use the Swaro 65 HD like you do. I believe the "world" is beating a path to Zen's door. They sell out as fast as they get them in.
 
What I can't get past yet with any of the newer lines of glass that are being touted as the best glass for the money is the difference between working with a company with a long and trusted history and one I've only heard of for a short period of time. That's the line in the sand for me. 99.5/100 people who have dealt with Swaro for service of any kind are Very Satisified.

P.S. I know the birders are picky about their glass but aren't they looking for something a little different than us hunters. November at 7000' here in Idaho is a little different than a day in the marsh.
 
>
>What I can't get past yet
>with any of the newer
>lines of glass that are
>being touted as the best
>glass for the money is
>the difference between working with
>a company with a long
>and trusted history and one
>I've only heard of for
>a short period of time.
> That's the line in
>the sand for me.
>99.5/100 people who have dealt
>with Swaro for service of
>any kind are Very Satisified.
>
>
>P.S. I know the birders
>are picky about their glass
>but aren't they looking for
>something a little different than
>us hunters. November at
>7000' here in Idaho is
>a little different than a
>day in the marsh.


"the difference between working with
a company with a long
and trusted history and one
I've only heard of for
a short period of time".

The DIFFERENCE is about $1200. I gaurantee you you will be hearing about Zen Ray for a long time. Just like I knew we would be hearing about Swarovski for a long time when they first came out.

The thing is MOST of us want the best value for the money in everything we buy and use. Optics are no different. Some people just gotta have a beemer (BMW) and thats ok. Whats not OK this looking down your nose at the guy who wants better value and owns a Lexus.

Zen Ray comes no where close to filling every niche in world of optics. The big three and several other have lots of offerings. But for those looking for the best VALUE for a standard pair of hang around you neck binos Zen Rays fit that bill. They definately do challenge the best offerings available and they do it @ about 1/4 the price.
 
BPKhunter makes a very good point. Companies come and go and many of them even have good products but there is a lot to be said for stability, longevity, track record and service.

So in 1949 you knew the Swarovskis were going to be successful? Well, you were correct. I guess we will have to wait another 60 years to see if you are correct about Zen Ray.

The BMW Lexus analogy is a poor one since the prices are comparable and Lexus has been around long enough now to prove it self but given the choice I would take the BMW and it doesn't have anything to do with looking down my nose.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
Am I the only one that sees these threads started by posters with less than 10 posts as obvious "plants" to hype up a product?
 
I hope that is not the case but it is not a baseless topic either. Mid priced optics with good or very good performance is a hot niche in the market and the Zen Rays are worth a serious look and consideration. I have said more than once that glasses that retail for less than $400 to $500 are a waste of good money. Depending on what the real price of these EDs is, I may have to revise that position.

I had a couple people over today going back and fourth behind a set of Zen Ray EDs and Swaro ELs. Side by side. Both were 8 power. Both on tripods. It was not a waste of time. The EDs do a remarkable job for the money.

My opinion regarding track record, service and warranty etc are still the same though. Any upstart is going to have to prove itself, build a reputation and stand the test of time. There is no getting around that.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
>Am I the only one that
>sees these threads started by
>posters with less than 10
>posts as obvious "plants" to
>hype up a product?

Do a Google search of Zen-Ray and you'll see the same three or four guys hyping them all over the internet. Not sure if they're "plants", but they're certainly a zealous bunch!
 
From what I've gathered over the years, I think Swaro has the best service bar none, Zeiss is pretty decent also, and Leica has alot to be desired I (personal experience). No one, including myself, has ever put the service/warranty questions of the new Zens on par with swaro, zeiss, or leupold because it's obviously too new. I've said that from the get go. However, in talking of the optically performance of the Zen ED2, you will be amazed at the view. I've got no dog in the hunt, but I love quality optics no matter the brand.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-09 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]I agree with you Fortis. I really don't have a dog in this hunt either. I too have never stated that warrenty/service issue was anything to take lightly. Not to make light of service issues though and just judging them by their build/design, I doubt that service issues are not going to be a big deal,.....at least with the ED's. I base that judgement on my own experience as a Navy Opticalman and as an optical instrument tech. I've serviced periscopes, binos, sextants, alidades, slit lamps, phoroptors, lenometers, opthalmoscopes, a wide array of microscopes, astronomical telescopes, spotting scopes, and the list goes on. I post this not to brag but only to point out that I've got some knowlege as to the quality of the build of a good variety of optics. In my judgement the mechnical design and quality of the ZR ED is very good to excellent. That is really not unique though. A good number of binos from a wide variety of Mfgs, are good quality, and mechanically sound. It's usually the quality of the optics that really set apart the big three. THAT is where the ZR's (and several others) are really making some serious strides.

Wade, I'm not the enemy here. I wasn't refering to you with my previous comment and BMW vs Lexis. At least you are judging them based on having evaluated them as opposed to Cbeard, Foreman4x4 and NJS.

I can see you are still parsing your words. Yes the ZR ED's are no joke. There is really really not that much difference between them and the high end binos,......... BUT there is a difference. I think most who have read these threads can surmise that the Zen Ray ED's are high quality bino's. The fact that they are available for $400 or less makes them all that much more attractive.

This is where the average hunter and or binos user is at a crossroad. And this is the question that everyone needs to answer.

Is the difference in optical and mechnical quality and service/warranty issue worth the extra $1000-$1700?

I spent $1200 for a pair of Trinovids 8 years ago. They are very good quality and I've had no service issues (but then again I've had no service issues with Leopold, Nikon, Steiner, and several others). The ZR ED was not available back then but I can honestly say if they had been I would have chosen them over the Leica's, based on image and optical quality alone. Add in the $800 difference in price and that sweetens the pot all that much more.

I know some here would choose differently. Thats ok. The fact that some here would choose the ZR ED'd based on the quality and price SHOULD be ok to those of you who might choose the high bino's. To me its sounds like its NOT OK with some of you posting here.
 
Just to be clear,I'm perfectly OK with anyone making an informed choice based on any criteria they wish.

My only real purpose in posting on these Zen-Ray threads is to point out that there appears to be an internet marketing campaign going on here and I am a little skeptical,that's all.If all you guys just happen to be Zen Ray nuts that's cool. But if you have some stake or purpose in the deal I think that should be stated up front.

That said, Wade is in the process of evaluating these optics and so far has some pretty positive comments. I think it's only fair that should be pointed out too as independence and objectiveness are his stock in trade.
 
Well, here is what I can say now after spending a few days using them right next to other 8s I have for an hour or more at a time at different times of the day. The image quality on the Zen Ray ED is better than my Nikon Monarch ATBs and Vortex Vipers. The Zen Ray ED also has a better field of view at 426 feet at a 1000 yards.

However, they are not as good as my Swarovski EL, Nikon EDG, Zeiss FL or Leica Ultravids.

The question that remains for me is, how are they compared to the Vortex Razors. Don't know yet because I don't have a set of 8 power Razors but I will in a day or two.

So will I start recommending the ZR ED over the Nikon Monarchs and Vortex Vipers as my less than $1000 glasses? Not quite yet. My hang up is one that I brought up to the Zen Ray folks the very first day I received them. I don't like the way the Outdoorsmans Bino Adapter Stud faces out away from the user. It catilevers all the weight of the bino out on that quarter twenty thread and I just think it will end up damaging the hinge or causing the whole thing to tip over on the tripod. If it faced in towards the user like the ELs or even facing out but closer in towards the center of gravity like on the Monarchs and Vipers then yes I would recommend them without hesitation because they offer a better view. It may not sound like a big issue but it is for me because I am sold on the Outdoorsmans system and will only use and therefore recommend binos that use it properly. Seems like an easy fix to me.

If that issue doesn't pertain to you then you can consider the Zen Ray EDs recommended by Hardcore Outdoor as the best view for under $1000. The fact that they can be had for less than half of that makes them an exceptional value.

The next question is obvious I guess. How much better are the Swaro, Zeiss, EDG and Leica than the Zen Ray EDs? I can't put a number on it and it would be different for everybody anyway so why even try. The point is you will get something for the extra money and only you can decide if it is worth it or not.

What do I use? Nikon doesn't make the EDG in a 50 or 56mm objective. Leicas service is less than optimal, they don't make a regular 15 power with a 56 or 60mm objective and they don't have a doubler. You can't use the Outdoorsmans adapter on the Zeiss FLs. So, by process of elimination, I use the Swaros. They are top level glass, work perfectly with the Outdoorsmans accessories, service is very good, I like having the ability to use their doubler on the 8s, 10s and 15s and their 15 power has a 56mm objective. The Swarovskis work best for my system and style of hunting.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
Sorry I'm late to the game here. Haven't stopped into the optics forum for a while now. Been too busy actually looking through them.

I've made it known that I'm a fan of ZR. I own as my primary binocular a Leica Geovid 8x42 and the ZR is more clear. There is a difference, however, that I find hard to quantify. The more time I spent behind each I realized that my eyes were just more comfortable behind the Leicas. I'm really not sure why, to be honest. My eyes just felt better after long glassing sessions.

I have held the ZR EDs next to my Leicas, some SLCs I own (15x, so it wasn't a direct comparison), some Vortex Vipers and Razors and some of my cheaper Minox. The ZRs were the most crisp of the bunch. Yep, I said it. They had the best resolution and edge to edge sharpness. Mind you, this was to my eyes, using the mountain shrubs and trees as my chart. I have found that this differs by person.

Resolution doesn't factor in those other intangibles that I can't really put in words here. I like my Leicas better. I feel more comfortable behind them. But the ZRs are a GREAT value.

In my mind the ZR is the clear winner in the sub 1K range for binos.
 
well you guys are perking my interest in these binos, hey I chose the minox hg over the slc's, I couldn't tell any difference between them. except the price! but I get zero eye fatigue from my minox's. this is huge for me because I can't look through cheaper binos for long periods of time. has anyone else noticed eye strain from the zr's?
 
Wade,

As time goes by I appreciate more and more good glassing equipment. Can you tell me the benefits of the Outdoorsman's adapters and tripods. They seem awful spendy, what is the benefit?
 
Foreman,

I can assure you i'm not a Zen Ray plant, just a guy trying to get info from others who might have some valid experience and an opinion on the subject. As for not having that many posts, i guess some people choose to post more than others. FYI, I bought the 8x43 ED2s. They seem pretty good. not necessarily great, but pretty good.
 
Thanks for the objective posts Ben, Wade. Ben I have found no difference in eye fatigue between the Leica's and the ED's. Both of mine seem to be perfectly collimated with well matched optics. I rate them somewhat better than both you and Wade. I also have the first edition ED's.

I have also evaluated the ZRS Summit. Although not in the same class as the ED's its a heck of a deal for $180.

I'll say this again I have NO affiliation with Zen Ray in any manner. Nor do I have any affilation with Leica or any other optics company.
 
BPK

I use three different tripods depending on the situation and task at hand. The Manfrotto 190XV, the Outdoorsmans Medium (most of the time) and the Slik 613CF for ulralight applications where I am not exposed to wind.

The Outdoorsmans Binocular Adapter offers a fast, solid and positive mount for all my various binos, spotting scope, video camera, web camera, still camera, range finder and even lights. One system for all my tripod mountable stuff. No muss, no fuss. Push the button, put the male into the female until it clicks and screw it down a couple of turns until it is secure. Reverse to switch pieces or break it down. I can easily carry it from one spot to the other too without fear of something expensive and fragile falling off.

The Outdoorsmans Adapter can be configured to work with most of the popular heads but it was made for the Outdoorsmans heads which I happen to think are the best for my style of glassing. I use their Pistol Grip for my ultra light set up and their Pan Head (my all time favorite head) for standard nose bump scanning. I own and have used all of the most popular heads including those from Manfrotto and Jim White but the Outdoorsmans are the ones I like the best for hour after hour glassing. It is precision gear so I try to keep it clean but other than that they are smooth, robust and easy to use and set up.

It doesn't hurt that Floyd, Terry, and Tom have taken great care of me over the years with outstanding customer service, product knowledge and sound advice. Price is not a consideration in my recommendations but I have always found great value in excellence.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
As "value" seems to be the common thread in this string of posts I find that it obviously means very different things to different people. I think binoculars are a great example of how value to me seems to be on a scale of diminishing returns. For example, you can get a free pair of Burris binoculars that come with a decent 3x9x40 Fullfield scope. For the cost they are a pretty decent pair of binoculars. For $300 you can buy a pair of Nikon Monarch's, which most people will agree are 2x better than the almost free pair of Burris bino's and are probably 90% as good as say my swaro's, which cost probably 6x as much.

I guess if you where strictly a math guy you would say the Monarch's are a better value, as it cost so much more for that last 10%(some will say this $ should be higher or lower but you get the point).

For me when I was 18 and needed both a scope and bino's the Burris deal was great and frankly all I could afford making $20k/yr. At 25, when hunting was even more important and I was making $40k a year and could finally afford the Nikon's they were great. Now, while it is a sacrifice I can afford the Swaro's and can say without a doubt I do not regret the extra cost and feel that I have, within 1 or 2%, the best glass, and have the best customer service and warrany behind them so I feel these are the best VALUE at this point in my life.

I understand everyone has their personal financial tolerances and the guy feeding a family on $40m a year may not have my budget, as I don't have the free cash of a doctor making $500m/yr so I think VALUE can be relevant to more than just performance and retail price.
 
well I don't think that the monarchs are even close in comparing to swarovski! but I feel there are far better glass on the market for the monarch price. and I also feel and have seen technology catch up to the big 3, for far less money.
 
well I preferred the pentax hr2 over nikon I also liked the windriver's in multiple offerings. now I would choose the minox bd over them. or some of the vortex are even as good or better for the price. but that's just my opinion. I had a pair of 70 dollar bosch&lomb's that we passed back n forth comparing the two, and we both liked them as good or more than his 300 dollar monarchs.
 
I done a fair amount of comparison between the Zen Ray Summit ($180) and the Monarchs. Both are decent glass but the ZRS Summit wins that comparison hands down. I said it before and I'll say it again. We're really lucky to have the quantity and quality of optics being produced today. Lots of very good offerings at excellent prices.
 
I agree. The monarch binocs do a huge disservice to the excellent Nikon Monarch name. My nephew's old Pentax's have a brighter, clearer view, as did my hunting buddy's Carson's....that's right, Carson's. They are not very impressive to my eyes. 90% of the Swaro? You've got to be kidding. Hardcore, I've got to ask you something. What should it mean to us the you "endorse" a product like you did recently?
 
The Monarch has been around for over a decade. It was a heck of a deal when the design was new, and it has its place in binocular history as a mid price classic. But Nikon has sat on their laurels with it since they introduced it. The competition has caught and passed the Monarch at lower price points. I have an 8x42 Monarch, which I do not use any more. I can tell you from my experience that the New Vortex Diamondback, the Zen Ray ZRS, the new Atlas Optics (a new division of Eagle Optics/Vortex) Sky King, which is a ZRS with a dielectric coated prism, will whack the Monarch for $200 or less. I would even chose the new Atlas Radian for $129.00 over the Monarch. The Monarch has always had some issues. I am sort of surprised you haven't seen them by now.

Those issues are poor contrast, edge softness, narrow field of view, and a poor (or at least below average) depth of focus. That's not just me, those comments about the Monarch are everywhere.

I thought it was a great binocular when I got it and is is one I could hunt with again and not loose too much, but its star is setting. Too bad Nikon didn't choose to improve it as they went.
 
Fortis

I don't use the term "endorse" because it carries with it a connotation of some sort of financial compensation. I don't recieve any financial compensation for recommending anything although I am recieving more and more of those types of offers. I don't believe I can offer credible opinions on gear if I accept money or advertising from someone that would benefit from a positive evaluation. I believe I have to maintain my independence to be credible. Bottom line is that I can persuaded but I cannot be bought.

If you want information on my background it is all on my site. My recommendations are based on my field use and 30 years of experience. I continuously search the market for what I think will be best in class gear. If I like something, I use it, if I use it, I promote it.

Should a recommendation from me mean anything to you? Maybe. Maybe not. That is up to you.

I still like the basic Nikon Monarch line for beginner or geneal use where top of the line performance is not required. The quality is satisfactory, image quality is consistant and good, and I like the power/objective offerings. I use the 10x56s in the truck, Ranger and quad. I also have the 8x42s and 12x56s set up with the Outdoorsmans Tripod Adapters for my 10 year old son to use. They work well for us in that capacity.

Nikon does have the new Monarch X but I have not looked at them so I can't comment yet.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
hco I aadmire a man that that won't approve of something for the wrong reasons. I just truley feel technology is abundant and companies these days need to do very little tweaking and improving to compete. and the monarchs are very popular its easy to use them in comparisons just because most people have at least looked through a pair at one time in their life. you really have me interested in the outdoorsman tripod adapter, I lookec on your site but didn't see anything.
 
I don't know about the Minox HG but the guys at the Outdoorsmans will know. I have not spent much time looking at them although I probably should just to make sure that I am not missing something.

Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
 
there a great piece of glass for under $1000. the general consensus was the were every bit as good as the slc's we were comparing them to last year. and I purchased mine last year for under 600 shipped to my door. thanks for the info again hco I will give them a call.
 

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