Preference point change

muleyhunter413 · Oct 30, 2016

I see the state is proposing a change to the preference point system. Under the current rule you obtain a preference point if you don't draw your first choice. The proposed change would do away with that and if you draw a permit via 1rst-5th choice you burn all preference points and do not obtain 1 for that year.
Personally I do not support this change and I do not understand the reason for this proposal. Can someone please help me understand the reason for this proposed change?

gasman · Oct 31, 2016

cry babies is why. People who didn't know how it worked and who dont get tags because of the lack of understanding it have made a big deal about it.

elkantlers · Oct 31, 2016

I'm tired of people that aren't smart enough to read and understand the proclamation whining about a "loophole" that they aren't smart enough to use. Now, rather than using the "loophole", they are hell bent on ruining a good thing. Good grief!

They should leave the "loophole" in place. There has been so much talk about the "loophole" this year that anyone that doesn't use it now deserves to not get a deer tag.

deerkiller · Oct 31, 2016

Whiny bitches ruin good things for everyone. "It's not fair" oh boo who! If you aren't smart enough to figure out how the system works, don't be mad at the guys who are

ELKOHOLIC · Oct 31, 2016

Cry babies is right!It seems like that is all people do anymore is complain.

Robiland · Oct 31, 2016

The loophole should be fixed or shut down. I am good with that. But, Id like to see a fair way of pref points working. If you draw 1 or 2 choice, then you lose your points. Thats not even a great way.

But the loop whole being closed is a "FAIR" thing to do.

deerkiller · Oct 31, 2016

>The loophole should be fixed or
>shut down. I am
>good with that. But,
>Id like to see a
>fair way of pref points
>working. If you draw
>1 or 2 choice, then
>you lose your points.
>Thats not even a great
>way.
>
>But the loop whole being closed
>is a "FAIR" thing to
>do.

EVERYONE had the chance to use it. Some chose to use the loop hole, 'most didn't. With everyone having to chance to use it, that was "FAIR". It boiled down to people being too stupid to understand the draw system and how to use it to your advantage. But it had nothing to do with FAIR

Robiland · Oct 31, 2016

I knew it was there and didnt use it. AM I STUPID? I didnt need to use it, but I guess I am stupid to not use it. Stupid me! With your attitude, I hope after the change, you dont draw. Just because some are not like you doesnt mean they are stupid.

Many people want to hunt and just apply as it is. They dont break down the application process trying to find ways to cheat the system. But I guess they are STUPID, Right?!?!

Robiland · Oct 31, 2016

Maybe in the application booklet we should make a change for the "stupid" people and explain to them the loophole. Then everyone would be using it and you'll be right back at square 1!

Shadow · Oct 31, 2016

Well said Robiland and I agree with taking the points for a number one or two choice being drawn. Thanks for speaking up on behalf of the stupid people.

nebo12000 · Oct 31, 2016

There won't be any less hunters who get tags every year. It will just put the folks who apply for their first choice at the head of the line. I've heard plenty of hunters upset that someone, who had put in a unit as their 3rd or 4th choice, draw ahead of someone who had put in for the unit as their first choice. Their will be just as many hunters out there with tags, just shifts the draw towards the "first choice" unit applicants. Personally I see nothing wrong with that.

TR175 · Oct 31, 2016

It's not a "loop hole". The DWR did it that way so there were not thousands of left over tags that they had to deal with on a first come first serve basis. I don't agree with someone drawing a 3rd or 4th choice over someones 1st choice and still gaining a point. We will be 5 to 6 points deep to draw some of the general season units around here with the current system.

deerkiller · Oct 31, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-16 AT 02:40PM (MST)[p]>I knew it was there and
>didnt use it. AM I
>STUPID? I didnt need
>to use it, but I
>guess I am stupid to
>not use it. Stupid
>me! With your attitude,
>I hope after the change,
>you dont draw. Just
>because some are not like
>you doesnt mean they are
>stupid.
>
>Many people want to hunt and
>just apply as it is.
> They dont break down
>the application process trying to
>find ways to cheat the
>system. But I guess
>they are STUPID, Right?!?!

No worries there. I'll draw pretty much every time I put in for my preferred unit. I've been applying family members that don't really hunt for GS, DH and LE And building points for years for my use. I'm not one of the dumb ones. I plan ahead ???

PleaseDear · Oct 31, 2016

I don't have a problem with it as it should bring the points needed back into 1-2 point pool.

Anyone hear about a Premium Gen Deer tags being offered ?

Ya know being able to hunt all weapons/seasons? using Preference Points to draw.

Or would the Dedicated hunter gig cover that only???

Thanks

Robb

nebo12000 · Nov 1, 2016

There may be some left over tags in some units the first year if this passes the WB. I kind of doubt it though. People will adjust to the system. Probably cause people to only put in for a 1st and 2nd choice, especially if they have preference points. In reality, the whole state is limited entry for deer.

scandalousbob · Nov 1, 2016

Does anyone have a link for this? When will we know if it passes?

deadibob · Nov 1, 2016

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-16
>AT 02:40?PM (MST)
>
>>I knew it was there and
>>didnt use it. AM I
>>STUPID? I didnt need
>>to use it, but I
>>guess I am stupid to
>>not use it. Stupid
>>me! With your attitude,
>>I hope after the change,
>>you dont draw. Just
>>because some are not like
>>you doesnt mean they are
>>stupid.
>>
>>Many people want to hunt and
>>just apply as it is.
>> They dont break down
>>the application process trying to
>>find ways to cheat the
>>system. But I guess
>>they are STUPID, Right?!?!
>
>No worries there. I'll draw pretty
>much every time I put
>in for my preferred unit.
>I've been applying family members
>that don't really hunt for
>GS, DH and LE And
>building points for years for
>my use. I'm not one
>of the dumb ones. I
>plan ahead ???

If you planned ahead, you would have bought a lifetime license ;-)

nebo12000 · Nov 1, 2016

Wildlife Board meeting is Dec 9. They will decide then--
RAC meetings happen in Nov. Check the DWR website for meeting times and locations

muleyhunter413 · Nov 1, 2016

I don't see this as a loophole. It's just a system. I haven't got a problem with someone getting a tag for their 4th choice over someone else who chose that unit as their first choice. Under this system if your name is pulled first, you get the permit first. Not a loophole. Also, if there is a few units that end up taking 5 preference points to draw then so be it. You can apply for an easier unit as a 2nd-5th choice and then hunt what may be a better quality unit every 5 years. I like this system. I don't want to see it change. If it changes I think you will not get to hunt as often or else possibly hunt lesser quality units instead.

GLEDEASY · Nov 1, 2016

What I would personally like to see is only losing your preference choice if drawn on your first choice.

Complete everybody's first choice drawings then start 2nd,3rd,etc. being totally random with no points and no loss of points if drawn.

Whether or not it would be a better system than what's proposed I don't know. But in my mind it would give me a better chance at drawing the specific unit I want and still a potential opportunity to hunt when I don't draw that unit.

Silentstalker · Nov 1, 2016

>What I would personally like to
>see is only losing your
>preference choice if drawn on
>your first choice.
>
>Complete everybody's first choice drawings then
>start 2nd,3rd,etc. being totally random
>with no points and no
>loss of points if drawn.
>
>
>Whether or not it would be
>a better system than what's
>proposed I don't know. But
>in my mind it would
>give me a better chance
>at drawing the specific unit
>I want and still a
>potential opportunity to hunt when
>I don't draw that unit.
>

This is how I would like to see it too. It will eliminate the need for everyone to only apply for thier first choice and then a pile of left over tags that you have to inconveniently buy online or over the phone in July.

Allowing points 2-5 to be drawn completely randomly makes the system fair and still allows you to hunt your favorite unit every 2-3 years. As mentioned above though, this proposal will not make drawing a tag any easier. Most of the popular units will still be difficult to draw.

Robiland · Nov 2, 2016

I like it also. This would be the best way, if MY MIND is understanding the logic. Please come and share this at the next meeting this month. This is what we need.

GLEDEASY · Nov 2, 2016

I typed this on another forum. Thought I would share it here as it explains more concerning the draw process I would like to see. As well as some reasoning for it.

I'm going to try and express my thoughts and opinions.

The "loophole" generated by our current system certainly isn't the best when it comes to feeling "fair". I've used it the past couple years after I felt that "unfairness" of not drawing my first choice with having a couple of points.

With the proposed new system it may "fix" the "fairness" issue, but it certainly isn't without flaws IMO. I believe it was drafted entirely looking at the "loophole fairness" issue without thinking about all sportsmen and looking further down the road.

I believe the best option to address the issues of both being "fair" concerning the preference point (PP) "loophole" and allowing people to increase their opportunity to draw their favorite unit and avoiding potential problems is found somewhere in the "middle ground".

1- Have the draw based upon the order of one's choices rather than their PP as it is now.
Everyone's first choice is put into the drawing pool with their weighted PP attached.
If one draws their first choice they get the tag and lose their PP's.
If one does not draw their first choice they obtain another PP for next year.

2- Now that everyone's first choices have been considered and are taken care of, we now move on to everybody's 2-5 choices (in that order).
PP's are no longer considered for these choices and are obtained totally by random chance.
If one draws one of their 2-5 choices they obtain the tag, but do not lose their PP's.

This would actually be a simple system to implement and takes care of the needs of those who want "fairness", those who want to hunt, and those who want to hunt specific units.
Would it please everyone? No, nothing ever does.
Would it be better than our current system? Who knows.
Is it better than the proposed system to close the "loophole"? I think so.

Zeke · Nov 2, 2016

I like the "new" idea being touted here but on the flip side there is no loophole and never has been. It just a system to distribute tags and some like it and some don't. Some use it and some don't. Some know about it and some don't.

There's no reason for a 3-5th choice to be drawn in from of someone's first choice irrespective of points.

IMHO
Zeke

muleyhunter413 · Nov 2, 2016

Under your proposed system, I feel that there are units that would end up taking several preference points to draw. If I don't have the required points to get my number 1 choice then I would have the same odds of having a permit as someone with zero points who put in for the same 1rst choice. Neither of us had enough for 1rst choice so the same odds after that. I personally think this would have a lot of people upset. I do like the ideas being tossed around, but like I have already stated, I like the system the way it is. I see no good reason to change it. I would like to know how many people would really want a change. I hope to hear some good discussion on this at the Racs.

muleyhunter413 · Nov 2, 2016

Zeke, I totally agree with you on the no "loophole" statement. I really don't think it takes much effort at all to know how this current system works, and to be honest hearing people say there is a "loophole" is pretty irritating. I understand some like it and some dont. Any system will have that. As far as your statement that there is no reason for someone to draw their 3rd or 4th choice over someone else's 1rst choice...well, that is where I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. Ha ha

Zeke · Nov 3, 2016

MH413,

You won't be the first person to disagree with me but I do appreciate the civility in a thread that is otherwise.

Zeke

deerkiller · Nov 3, 2016

>>LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-16
>>AT 02:40?PM (MST)
>>
>>>I knew it was there and
>>>didnt use it. AM I
>>>STUPID? I didnt need
>>>to use it, but I
>>>guess I am stupid to
>>>not use it. Stupid
>>>me! With your attitude,
>>>I hope after the change,
>>>you dont draw. Just
>>>because some are not like
>>>you doesnt mean they are
>>>stupid.
>>>
>>>Many people want to hunt and
>>>just apply as it is.
>>> They dont break down
>>>the application process trying to
>>>find ways to cheat the
>>>system. But I guess
>>>they are STUPID, Right?!?!
>>
>>No worries there. I'll draw pretty
>>much every time I put
>>in for my preferred unit.
>>I've been applying family members
>>that don't really hunt for
>>GS, DH and LE And
>>building points for years for
>>my use. I'm not one
>>of the dumb ones. I
>>plan ahead ???
>
>If you planned ahead, you would
>have bought a lifetime license
>;-)

Well being at the age of under 5 years old when they offered that, and not having parents that saw the value and benefits of buying their kid, who were unsure if their kid would even have an interest in hunting, a lifetime deer tag, which at the time was around the $500 price mark, I unfortunately missed out on that opportunity. So I had to figure out other ways that I could have tag just about every year I wanted to hunt

Shadow · Nov 3, 2016

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-16
>AT 02:40?PM (MST)
>
>>I knew it was there and
>>didnt use it. AM I
>>STUPID? I didnt need
>>to use it, but I
>>guess I am stupid to
>>not use it. Stupid
>>me! With your attitude,
>>I hope after the change,
>>you dont draw. Just
>>because some are not like
>>you doesnt mean they are
>>stupid.
>>
>>Many people want to hunt and
>>just apply as it is.
>> They dont break down
>>the application process trying to
>>find ways to cheat the
>>system. But I guess
>>they are STUPID, Right?!?!
>
>No worries there. I'll draw pretty
>much every time I put
>in for my preferred unit.
>I've been applying family members
>that don't really hunt for
>GS, DH and LE And
>building points for years for
>my use. I'm not one
>of the dumb ones. I
>plan ahead ???

And for that reason I'd like to see bonus or preference points taken away if the tag is returned for anything less than medical, military or other legitimate reasons. Too many people riding coat tails of grandma who never shot a gun in her life.

elkfromabove · Nov 12, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-16 AT 11:47PM (MST)[p]Looks like we might be lookin' at a whole new group of cry-babies from the other side of the room. But don't worry, folks, if this passes, it's just another system that will get people faster through the preference point creep and will help separate the trophy hunters from the opportunity hunters. And isn't that what we want?

Silentstalker · Nov 12, 2016

What did the central rac pass?

muleyczy · Nov 13, 2016

Does this change only apply to general deer or LE as well?

Silentstalker · Nov 13, 2016

Its only for preference points. LE and OIL use bonus points.

lostinOregon · Nov 13, 2016

I have no idea why you guys are even discussing the options. The decision has already been made by SFW. They will go through the motions, but you guys have lost your voice in what happens in UT. I'm not trying to derail the thread but the truth hurts sometimes.

Rich

Muley_73 · Nov 14, 2016

Rich,
Hilarious, I truly wish it was that easy and any Sportsmans group had that powerful of voice when it came to our DWR!

elkantlers · Nov 15, 2016

Muley_73, SFW does have that kind of influence. For crying out loud, Most of the WB are SFW through and through.

Muley_73 · Nov 15, 2016

I guess it's difficult at times to see who's the puppet and who's the puppeteer.

elkfromabove · Nov 16, 2016

>I guess it's difficult at times
>to see who's the puppet
>and who's the puppeteer.

Yes it is, even for you.

Muley_73 · Nov 16, 2016

LOL, Lee I promise I always see the strings. I'm just ok with them more often than you. Its all means to an end. Knowing what string to pull and when to pull it is the key.

Speaking of strings, have they all finally frayed and severed with the UWC? How many paid memberships did you end up with for 2016?