scary sight at Hunt Expo

deadibob

Long Time Member
Messages
3,063
I was at the expo on Friday with my daughter. Towards the end of the show, we were walking down an isle, I looked up and saw Don Peay walking toward us with a couple other guys. They were just about to us, when I first noticed them and right before they walked by, I recognized the midget with him. It was Gov, Gary (never a tax he didn't love) Herbert. I didn't get a look at who the third guy was.

Hold onto your wallets and your tags boys! They are probably cooking something else up. Either that or Don was doing a show and tell of how well they are fleecing the common sportsman.

For the record, I didn't put in for any of the tag draws. My daughter wanted to meet Eva Shockey and I went to catch up with some friends as well.

I looked at the list of $5 tag drawings and it seemed like a lot of the really good tags, OIL weren't available anymore. Did they move those tags to the auctions?
 
There where a few. Not as many as years past. Bull moose, Bison bull,three cows, Desert and Rocky big horn and two mountain goats. There where s few cow elk tags added this year . ?
 
Cow elk tags? Seriously?

Who has a list from early on to compare the tags over time? Somebody has it!

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
So let me get this straight.

Now $FW is pulling some of the better tags out of the 200 tags that are supposed to go to the useful idiots at $5 per chance and must validate in person and are now giving them to the high rollers to bid on and replacing them(the better tags that the useful idiots should be getting) with cow elk tags?

Is anybody really surprised by this?
 
Pretty obvious how SFW pulled the rug out from under RMEF a few years back now...All letters sent to the Gov's office protesting the move were for nothing.
 
Pretty obvious now how Newberg (BigFin) lied to everyone on here about RMEF not being in competition with SFW.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if there are parcels of public land up for auction at the expo next year. The premium auctions will include all the wildlife on that land as well.
 
>Pretty obvious now how Newberg (BigFin)
>lied to everyone on here
>about RMEF not being in
>competition with SFW.


City boy, you still all butthurt from when Newberg schooled your stupid ass?

Competition? What competition?

RMEF's 200k+ members against $FW's maybe 2k members. I don't see any competition.
 
"The View crew of MM all at the table! Hilarious"


:D Rich!



Towlie showed up and took us down a notch to Springer. :D
 
Towllie....who exactly am I running to the rescue of? The original post was false information. That is just a fact. You all gobble it up like Joy and Whoopie every single time. In reality I'm trying to rescue you and others from looking foolish for buying into false comments and situations.
 
>Towllie....who exactly am I running to
>the rescue of? The
>original post was false information.
> That is just a
>fact. You all gobble
>it up like Joy and
>Whoopie every single time.
>In reality I'm trying to
>rescue you and others from
>looking foolish for buying into
>false comments and situations.

Might be time for you to re read the OP. Unless you are here to claim the Don and herby weren't walking together.


Sorry boys. If your dumb azz plays 3 card monte, your an idiot. Same is true of showing up to the expo year after year and giving them your money, then Bitching.

I seem to remember some dude a long time ago raising the alarm on $fw. Believe his name was Hawkeye.

$fw has this abortion for the better part of a decade still. Here's the dirty secret, they could care less what you think, what you gonna do about it? In case you missed it while you were forking over cash, the next governor was there(Chaffetz), getting snoozed. Give $fw credit, they are years ahead of everyone else.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Speaking of Chaffetz, how about the Back Country Hunter and Angler guy who stood up during Chaffetz's keynote speech at the Saturday night banquet and starting yelling at him about public lands, etc. It was quite the sight. He was literally carried out of the banquet and arrested. I'm surprised it didn't get more publicity or mention.
 
>Speaking of Chaffetz, how about the
>Back Country Hunter and Angler
>guy who stood up during
>Chaffetz's keynote speech at the
>Saturday night banquet and starting
>yelling at him about public
>lands, etc. It was quite
>the sight. He was literally
>carried out of the banquet
>and arrested. I'm surprised it
>didn't get more publicity or
>mention.

I can't stand the guy. But time and place. This is $fw and Chaffetz courtship. Its their party. Folks need to get manners and act decent. You can disagree without being disagreeable. What the he'll are you paying for entrance, paying for dinner for if you disagree with him? $fw thanks you for your donation to their cause. I agree with Tri, dudes an idiot.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-19 AT 03:06PM (MST)[p]Hoss,
I did read the post, the entire post. Did you? It stated that the OIL tags had been removed. That is a false statement. But hey if it helps get the reaction from The View, why not throw it out there and let them froth and cry about it.

I have stated all along that BHA is aligned with the wrong people. Take a look around and see which side is standing up and screaming and protesting in the place and time. That was a perfect example of what bigger group that organization falls into.
 
>Hoss,
>I did read the post, the
>entire post. Did you?
> I stated that the
>OIL tags had been removed.
> That is a false
>statement. But hey if
>it helps get the reaction
>from The View, why not
>throw it out there and
>let them froth and cry
>about it.
>
>I have stated all along that
>BHA is aligned with the
>wrong people. Take a
>look around and see which
>side is standing up and
>screaming and protesting in the
>place and time. That
>was a perfect example of
>what bigger group that organization
>falls into.

Speaking of aligning with the wrong people....Did anyone see how the Humane Society went undercover at the Safari Club show with hidden cameras, to try and set up hunters??? But BHA being in bed with them is cool huh? I don't care for the SFW. And Herbert is a typical politician. I just thinks its funny how some of these guys are so selectively pissed off at one group and completely blind to the ones they support. BHA has absolutely zero credibility after that latest fiasco! This Public Land outcry is laughable, if it wasn't hurting rural families who happen to have run cattle for 5 generations. But by God, Grizz and Hoss would rather some federal agency back east, ran by puppets propped up by western water sheds and other eco terror groups, mis-manage the land, than allow the folks who live here have a voice? To quote Doc Holliday-"Apparently your hypocrisy knows no bounds"!

The expo was fun, my family enjoyed seeing the sites and applying for a few tags and seeing a few friends. Weirdly, we didn't burst into flames or turn to salt. And a lot of money was raised for conservation.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-19
>AT 03:06?PM (MST)

>
>Hoss,
>I did read the post, the
>entire post. Did you?
> It stated that the
>OIL tags had been removed.
> That is a false
>statement. But hey if
>it helps get the reaction
>from The View, why not
>throw it out there and
>let them froth and cry
>about it.
>
>I have stated all along that
>BHA is aligned with the
>wrong people. Take a
>look around and see which
>side is standing up and
>screaming and protesting in the
>place and time. That
>was a perfect example of
>what bigger group that organization
>falls into.

A lot of the OIL tags were removed, it looks like some are now for non-residents only but that wasn't always the case.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-19
>>AT 03:06?PM (MST)

>>
>>Hoss,
>>I did read the post, the
>>entire post. Did you?
>> It stated that the
>>OIL tags had been removed.
>> That is a false
>>statement. But hey if
>>it helps get the reaction
>>from The View, why not
>>throw it out there and
>>let them froth and cry
>>about it.
>>
>>I have stated all along that
>>BHA is aligned with the
>>wrong people. Take a
>>look around and see which
>>side is standing up and
>>screaming and protesting in the
>>place and time. That
>>was a perfect example of
>>what bigger group that organization
>>falls into.
>
>A lot of the OIL tags
>were removed, I didnt say all of them, i't looks like
>some are now for non-residents
>only but that wasn't always
>the case.
 
Its interesting to read whzt people say on this topic. Lots of false statements. First off, the auction tags are done in a group setting with all organizations able to get what they want to auction. Those tags were set long before the 200 tags were picked by the division. No SFW can not switch tags. Tags auctioned off at the expo came from SFW, MDF, RMEF, and private groups from around the world. Arizona dwr, wyoming dwr, colorado dwr, etc. Get your facts right. Also the guy who protested at the dinner was not arrested. No charges were filed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-19 AT 06:27PM (MST)[p]>>Hoss,
>>I did read the post, the
>>entire post. Did you?
>> I stated that the
>>OIL tags had been removed.
>> That is a false
>>statement. But hey if
>>it helps get the reaction
>>from The View, why not
>>throw it out there and
>>let them froth and cry
>>about it.
>>
>>I have stated all along that
>>BHA is aligned with the
>>wrong people. Take a
>>look around and see which
>>side is standing up and
>>screaming and protesting in the
>>place and time. That
>>was a perfect example of
>>what bigger group that organization
>>falls into.
>
>Speaking of aligning with the wrong
>people....Did anyone see how the
>Humane Society went undercover at
>the Safari Club show with
>hidden cameras, to try and
>set up hunters??? But BHA
>being in bed with them
>is cool huh? I don't
>care for the SFW. And
>Herbert is a typical politician.
>I just thinks its funny
>how some of these guys
>are so selectively pissed off
>at one group and completely
>blind to the ones they
>support. BHA has absolutely zero
>credibility after that latest fiasco!
>This Public Land outcry is
>laughable, if it wasn't hurting
>rural families who happen to
>have run cattle for 5
>generations. But by God, Grizz
>and Hoss would rather some
>federal agency back east, ran
>by puppets propped up by
>western water sheds and other
>eco terror groups, mis-manage the
>land, than allow the folks
>who live here have a
>voice? To quote Doc Holliday-"Apparently
>your hypocrisy knows no bounds"!
>
>
>The expo was fun, my family
>enjoyed seeing the sites and
>applying for a few tags
>and seeing a few friends.
>Weirdly, we didn't burst into
>flames or turn to salt.
>And a lot of money
>was raised for conservation.

Last I checked zinke was from Montana. And the new dude from Colorado.

When Lee sells YOUR land to BP, or Exxon, or the Wilks do you think you are gonna get a voice?

Do you think Halibuton is going to give some cut rate deal to grazers? Take 2 seconds and Google Wilks, and see how "your voice" works in Montana and Idaho. YOUR boy Chaffetz HAS ZERO interest in what "your voice" is. He cares 100% about what his financial backers will send his way.

You need only look. On one side is Newberg, Remi Warren, Meateater. The other the petroleum lobby. Then come tell me who has YOUR interest.

BTW RMEF opposed $fw. Guess those freaking dudes are sell outs too? RMEF who was giving back 100%, vs $fw giving back 30%.

Yeah I know, RMEF could never pull off the expo, its too damn small for them, Google "elk camp".

GOOGLE. Try using it once. Or better yet, look at Grizzlys tag line, direct quotes from $fw founder.

Glad your kids had fun. Good to get kids involved. But there is a reason $fw hasn't expanded out of Utah in 20+ years.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>Its interesting to read whzt people
>say on this topic.
>Lots of false statements.
>First off, the auction tags
>are done in a group
>setting with all organizations able
>to get what they want
>to auction. Those tags
>were set long before the
>200 tags were picked by
>the division. No SFW
>can not switch tags.
>Tags auctioned off at the
>expo came from SFW, MDF,
>RMEF, and private groups from
>around the world. Arizona dwr,
>wyoming dwr, colorado dwr, etc.
> Get your facts right.
> Also the guy
>who protested at the dinner
>was not arrested. No
>charges were filed.

Tags auctioned off at the expo come from SFW, MDF, RMEF and private groups around the world? So these groups are printing their own tags? From their own private herds? No, these tags originate from the states they are for. From the dwr, which come out of the allotted state-wide pool. The states are getting fleeced by these groups, people are getting rich off it and the state of Utah especially is either too stupid to realize it or complicit in fleecing the public. Get your facts straight!
 
Dead,
Your original post stated that OIL tags were not available. That is completely untrue. Your start the post with a complete lie and then try and call others out?
Throw all those tag back into the draws and they have little effect on the draw odds. Have the state auction them and the won't bring the same dollars. You guys whine and then turn around and side and support groups aligned with antihunting based groups. Cry some more, it's trendy to be a victim these days! ???
 
Muley those tags put back in the public draw would make a large difference. NR for example get no bonus tags given in many units essentially meaning preference points mean nothing. Add a bonus tag and at least the high point person gets the tag. SFW is pulling tags out of the public draw and if it continues we will be hunting high fence farm animals with Tristate on privatized ranches. Take a stance if your ok with that model then continue to support it, if you enjoy recreating on acres and acres of public land then understand what is really going on and the direction SFW is headed.
 
Bo,
The overall numbers are not really effected. In fact as a resident it gives me a 100% higher chance of drawing than the regular draw.

Your views of the future are assumption and awfulization. Scare tactics because you dislike SFW. Tell me this how powerful do you really think SFW is....do you think they are more powerful than any number of single individuals???

Also have you personally hunted Texas?
 
Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate!


When the free butter and gubmint cheese starts running low, and the lines get long for it, it sounds exactly like this.




No I did not go to the show. I sure wish I could have. I probably would have spent money lots of money and won nothing. Would have come home happy as a lark.
 
> Tell me this how
>powerful do you really think
>SFW is....do you think they
>are more powerful than any
>number of single individuals???

I think when it comes to wildlife (and hunter) management decisions, they are extremely powerful. That's why we have Option 2 even though the DWR biologists were against it. Think about that. The people employed (DWR biologists) by the state to be the experts and to help guide policy recommended against it, but SFW spoke for it, and here we are. (Not to mention the dog and pony show of handing over that check at that meeting, but I digress...)

No, any number of single citizens are not currently as powerful as SFW?s voice. That position at the table has been bought and paid for time and time again for many years, and it will take time to whittle it away. But that whittling has started. I look forward to the future when SFW is forced to be what they say they are, just a conservation organization and not a policy deciding group.
 
Vanilla,
Do you know that SFW blocked 30 unit management multiple times? It was not SFW that got Opt 2 passed but it goes to show how reality differs from perception.

Are you talking about the same Biologist that are told to manage based on budget if they want to keep their jobs? The same biologist that will personally tell you their numbers support different management that what the bosses tell them to support and recommend?
 
I love how the magic of John Bair on a microphone is the only reason those tags are "valued".

Someone should tell KSL or eBay that their sites could bring more money if they played Mr. Nair in the background.

Long before the Expo, their was a 6 figure offer on AI.

Its also hilarious that Muley(again he's not a member just their biggest supporter) says there isn't power for $fw having members on WB, yet they fought to get members on the WB.

A for Tri. I agree. Just last week the "gubment" handed a special interest 200 tags.

Now, I see the SLC chapter has even more "gubment" welfare to auction off.

Has anyone got this years numbers on how many TOTAL tags this one special interest group "with no power" has this year?

Also Muley. How does the don get paid? I know he is the rainmaker and gets a cut for every high dollar he brings in, but does his cut come from the "personnel" part of the $3.50 $fw keeps, or from the $$$ raised at banquets?



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
It's the entire event that is put on and it's a process on getting the right guys there to bid. Leave it to a state or government agency and you won't get the same return. I know that's hard for your brain to process as you are in the pool with those that think screaming and throwing tantrums is how the world should be run.

I didn't say there wasn?t any power I only stated that individuals have a larger say than any group in a political environment.

You are so hung up on the SFW you don't even recognize the shift in that which you really hate.
 
>Vanilla,
>Do you know that SFW blocked
>30 unit management multiple times?
> It was not SFW
>that got Opt 2 passed
>but it goes to show
>how reality differs from perception.

I am not aware of how many times SFW blocked the 30 unit management system, I will freely admit that. But if you're telling me they did not support it and help it finally get pushed through as Option 2, you're not being honest. So stop with the "reality differs from perception" junk. If they blocked it previously, something changed their mind.


>Are you talking about the same
>Biologist that are told to
>manage based on budget if
>they want to keep their
>jobs? The same biologist
>that will personally tell you
>their numbers support different management
>that what the bosses tell
>them to support and recommend?

If you're asking me who I trust more, the biologists or SFW leaders, that is a really easy one for me. Like....REALLY easy.
 
Vanilla,
I can tell you this, Opt 2 was a done deal before the SFW supported it. That is just a fact. You may not understand it but that doesn't make it any less true.

I never said trust the SFW more than the Biologist. I'm telling you things that biologist (multiple) have stated off the record. Many times those pushing for change (SFW at times included) are basing their position and agenda off of those conversations and information. Again maybe something you can't wrap your head around but I've personally had the conversations and discussed the numbers.
 
>Vanilla,
>I can tell you this, Opt
>2 was a done deal
>before the SFW supported it.
> That is just a
>fact. You may not
>understand it but that doesn't
>make it any less true.

Was it a done deal before or after they walked into that meeting with the check, thumbing their nose intentionally at the public?
 
>Dead,
>Your original post stated that OIL
>tags were not available.
>That is completely untrue.
>Your start the post with
>a complete lie and then
>try and call others out?
>
>Throw all those tag back into
>the draws and they have
>little effect on the draw
>odds. Have the state
>auction them and the won't
>bring the same dollars.
>You guys whine and then
>turn around and side and
>support groups aligned with antihunting
>based groups. Cry some
>more, it's trendy to
>be a victim these days!
> ???

You are right, my original post did read that there were no OIL tags. That was not what I meant to write, but that there are fewer OIL tags than in years past. I should have proof-read my post. However you are wrong to say throwing all those tags back would have little effect.

Two multi-season Oak Creek deer tags were auctioned off this year. Only one of those tags is offered through the regular draw. With only one tag, max point holders have the same chance as a first time applicant. Put those two auction tags back into the public draw and it makes a HUGE difference.
 
>Hoss,
>It's the entire event that is
>put on and it's a
>process on getting the right
>guys there to bid.
>Leave it to a state
>or government agency and you
>won't get the same return.
> I know that's hard
>for your brain to process
>as you are in the
>pool with those that think
>screaming and throwing tantrums is
>how the world should be
>run.
>
>I didn't say there wasn?t any
>power I only stated that
>individuals have a larger say
>than any group in a
>political environment.
>
>You are so hung up on
>the SFW you don't even
>recognize the shift in that
>which you really hate.

I have been busy for about a decade so I missed again this year. But Its my understanding that tags are bid on via surrogates? So how is "the entire event" sucking out more money from dudes who aren't there?

I noticed you passed on my questions to you.

Frankly I haven't said much about the expo this year. Its locked down solid for quite awhile.

But only a blind squirell can't see that $fw plays big boy politics to get what they do. The OP pointed out gov her by being toured around by THE DON. Chaffetz being keynote had nothing to do with his hunting prowess. And Romney being lead to chapter meetings all summer/fall isn't because he's good with a gun.

They own the expo because they paid for it. They own the WB because they played the game. While everyone else was hunting, THE DON became one of the most powerful figures in Utah. $fw learned to play in the back rooms while we all sat in RACS.

We all were asleep at the switch, and $fw capitalized.

They were highly successful, so why iscpointing that out so offensive?

I hope if the contract comes back up its taken, but that won't happen with Gov Chaffetz, so I'm not holding my breath.

I believe the kids say " don't hate the player hate the game"?


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>Hoss,
>>It's the entire event that is
>>put on and it's a
>>process on getting the right
>>guys there to bid.
>>Leave it to a state
>>or government agency and you
>>won't get the same return.
>> I know that's hard
>>for your brain to process
>>as you are in the
>>pool with those that think
>>screaming and throwing tantrums is
>>how the world should be
>>run.
>>
>>I didn't say there wasn?t any
>>power I only stated that
>>individuals have a larger say
>>than any group in a
>>political environment.
>>
>>You are so hung up on
>>the SFW you don't even
>>recognize the shift in that
>>which you really hate.
>
>I have been busy for about
>a decade so I missed
>again this year. But
>Its my understanding that tags
>are bid on via surrogates?
> So how is "the
>entire event" sucking out more
>money from dudes who aren't
>there?
>
>I noticed you passed on my
>questions to you.
>
>Frankly I haven't said much about
>the expo this year.
>Its locked down solid for
>quite awhile.
>
>But only a blind squirell can't
>see that $fw plays big
>boy politics to get what
>they do. The OP
>pointed out gov her by
>being toured around by THE
>DON. Chaffetz being keynote
>had nothing to do with
>his hunting prowess. And
>Romney being lead to chapter
>meetings all summer/fall isn't because
>he's good with a gun.
>
>
>They own the expo because they
>paid for it. They
>own the WB because they
>played the game. While
>everyone else was hunting, THE
>DON became one of the
>most powerful figures in Utah.
> $fw learned to play
>in the back rooms while
>we all sat in RACS.
>
>
>We all were asleep at the
>switch, and $fw capitalized.
>
>They were highly successful, so why
>iscpointing that out so offensive?
>
>
>I hope if the contract comes
>back up its taken, but
>that won't happen with Gov
>Chaffetz, so I'm not holding
>my breath.
>
>I believe the kids say "
>don't hate the player hate
>the game"?
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


I agree with Hoss 100% on this.
 
Hoss,
Sure, sounds like you have it all figured out. No idea the break down of Don?s personal income. With all of your insite I'm sure you should have that nailed down.
You say you haven't attended for years but you make comments on how the tags sell and what would work and what wouldn't . That makes about as much sense as aligning with openly anti hunting groups if you're a hunter.
 
>Hoss,
>Sure, sounds like you have it
>all figured out. No
>idea the break down of
>Don?s personal income. With
>all of your insite I'm
>sure you should have that
>nailed down.
>You say you haven't attended for
>years but you make comments
>on how the tags sell
>and what would work and
>what wouldn't . That
>makes about as much sense
>as aligning with openly anti
>hunting groups if you're a
>hunter.

It is a legit question. That is his role with $fw now days. That's what he does, kinda like a casino host. But I can't get anyone to tell me HOW he gets paid, or more direct from where. $fw is supposed to have seperate accounts.

Its not some big secret that surrogates are used to bid.

It is funny. I detest how they have accumulated power, which is no big secret, but I openly admit it works, but you get offended by that.

Did you ever answer how many tags they got this year? 200 at expo. How many more for chapter banquets?

They have the gov. The future gov. The majority whip. The WB, and we are all supposed to look away and pretend they get all that "gubment cheese" because no one else can produce like them. Then we are supposed to be excited that they take millions and do projects. Like as if any other state contractor deserves some special praise for doing what they get paid to do.

In short. $fw won. The rest of us can suck it. That's the reality.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
It appears since Peaydays courting of Trump has gotten him nowhere, he has doubled down on the fleecing of Utah hunters. Some of the states have been smart enough to ice him out. Years ago I was exhibiting at an expo in Anchorage. Don was there at the same time trying to get his grubby mitts on Alaska. Good thing he got nowhere. They saw right through him and the damage he has caused here.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]That's exactly right, no other state wants the model so they will continue to squeeze everything they can out of Utah. Bob dont waste your breath explaining the bonus tag in the public draw apparently simple math doesnt apply to SFW supporters. "It doesnt make that big of difference" over the years thousands of tags have been pulled out of draws to be put in the expo where the odds are astronomical. Muley how does that give you 100% chance better odds? Nothing else you post has any validity after that nonsense.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]Bo,
As a Utah resident I'm allowed to apply for only 1 of Deer, Elk or Pronghorn. And only 1 of OIL, moose, goat, sheep, bison.
So I get apply for 2 things, and on only 1 unit.
With the Expo Tags I get to apply for all of those species on multiple units.
So let me ask...who's the one speaking uneducated nonsense?

And again Bo have you personally hunted Texas?
 
Muley nice answer.
When I saw Bo post I got a pretty good chuckle on the "simple math" and then could not figure your 100 percent position.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]You're missing the mark muley, its bigger than the tag issue. Only thing Peay is in it for is the $ and privatizing hunting. Peays whole agenda is to cater to the high dollar crowd. The regular guy will continue to get pushed aside. If you cant see that then do some research on Peays background. To your point if you want to throw money at the expo tags to line the pockets of SFW more power to you. The big picture is what is concerning. I have kids that I hope to be able to take hunting, the future is headed to catering to the elite and privatizing our hunting heritage. SFW is about $$$ bottom line.

Interesting read on the Peays agenda:

https://westernvaluesproject.org/ta...hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]Bo,
Nice side step. And I know Don and his agenda better than yourself...I'd bet an entire bag is shiney nickels I'm that.

You called me out on numbers that I 100% backed up. (Careful with the math). You came back and ignored actual facts and spewed more inter web propaganda that you've ingested over a period of time. (I'm guessing without going far enough back to very far).

My kids will always hunt as will I. It's a passion and a priority. I'm glad others value the wildlife enough to put the money forward to insure a strong future. Rather than to just rely on access to the Kings Forest.

Again Bo have you personally hunted Texas? That's an easy yes or no question my friend.
 
Only Muley would think that having multiple random chances at tags with a 1 and 7k-10k chance is better than a point system where someone is sitting on a bunch of points.
Good Lord! ?
Another expo concluded where conservation funds is the purpose and millions of dollars raised.
The annual wildlife saviors were amongst us again doing ?good things?!
Our wildlife are saved and getting better! So they say!
But are they really?
Can these conservation funds out do mother nature?s winters battles? Have these funds proven more deer on the landscape?
Of course these saviors will say it has. But us hunters who are constantly marching along bearing witness to these results, are we seeing these results at hand?
I'm not!








"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
From Bocephus' link...

SFW?s ties to energy interests include:

? Supporting a controversial Utah land exchange in 2004 to benefit Hunt Consolidated, a Dallas-based oil company, after having been, according to news reports, a ?past beneficiary? of financial contributions from Hunt Consolidated.

? Receiving 25,000 shares of Energy Solutions stock, valued at $123,000, in November 2010.

? Being the only sportsmen group to reserve booths every year at the Four Corners Oil and Gas Conference.


"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Billy,
I'm basing my comments on simple math. I love how you guys are so blinded by hate for an organization that it literally impairs your ability to comprehend simple math.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19
>AT 09:55?AM (MST)

>
>Bo,
>As a Utah resident I'm allowed
>to apply for only 1
>of Deer, Elk or Pronghorn.
> And only 1 of
>OIL, moose, goat, sheep, bison.
>
>So I get apply for 2
>things, and on only 1
>unit.
>With the Expo Tags I get
>to apply for all of
>those species on multiple units.
>
>So let me ask...who's the one
>speaking uneducated nonsense?
>
>And again Bo have you personally
>hunted Texas?


and I bet you buy two power ball tickets instead of one. I've personally hunted Texas and I had a blast.
 
No internet propaganda, it is facts. My dog in the fight isn't the stuff you are worried about. My concern is the future of western big game hunting. Muley if you and guys like you have the money to buy auction tags and throw it away in the tag lottery that's your choice. The regular guy and what our hunting heritage is founded on is being eroded away by the almighty dollar. I've said it before that SFW started out as a decent organization that I could get behind and support, but when the money to be made was realized it's turned me and many others away as it has turned to politics and greed.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Good luck this fall!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-19 AT 05:17PM (MST)[p]The "simple math" is that NR's being able to apply for multiple tags reduces their odds of drawing any tag.

Here's why...

Don't get lost in the weeds on points, bottom line is the true, final, actual odds are number of tags divided by number of applicants. It doesn't matter how many tickets are in the bucket, whether each hunter has one ticket or every hunter has 100 tickets, ultimately the final odds are always the same.

To make it easier, picture you're sitting at one of the famous SFW Banquets and they have the big jug of red tickets in a drawing for another Remington 870 shotgun. If they handed all 150 people in attendance one free ticket, the odds would be 1:150 that any individual person would win. If they handed all 150 people 10 tickets each, the odds would still be 1:150 even though there are 1,500 tickets in the bucket. They didn't increase odds, just tickets. If they let people buy as many tickets as they want for that drawing and had 2,500 tickets in the bucket, the bottom line is that 1 person would get the gun and 149 would not get the gun. Point systems do NOT affect overall odds they only increase the likelihood of fairness over an extended time, i.e. that no person will draw 6 tags before somebody else draws their first tag (like is happening at the Expo).

No single person can draw multiple LE or OIL tags in a given year, once they draw their first tag they are not allowed to draw other tags via the Big Game Draw; the draw order is in the Proclamation. This means that no person can draw deer, elk, moose, and sheep... even though, as a NR, they are allowed to apply for them. They still only have a chance at drawing one tag, best case scenario. This is an important part of the equation.

The impetus for allowing NR to apply for multiple tags is to play on their desire for "intermittent reinforcement" where people believe if they keep playing the lottery they are bound to win eventually. Don't underestimate the power of "intermittent reinforcement" there is a city about 400 miles south of SLC on I-15 that is built upon it.

And when people think they get to play a bigger lottery with more chances to win (even though they are limited to one win) they are more likely to spend the money to do so. The reason NR are allowed to apply for every species is because DWR wants their license fees and app fees and knows that if NR felt they got 7 chances to win for their money they'd be more likely to buy the license than if they only got 2 chances to win. They may get to apply for every species, but so does every other NR, thus odds did not change; and if this caused more people to apply, then the odds of drawing actually decreased. Every NR with 10 points for each species thinks they have improved their odds, but they forget that every other NR that has been applying for the past decade has the same 10 points for each species. Their odds haven't improved, everybody just has more tickets in the bucket.

DWR is playing on the naivety and optimism of NR hunters to increase revenue. In so doing, they attract more NR hunters to apply for the few available tags (which are fixed in number, unlike other states that have "up to" quotas) and thus you've now increased the number of people applying for the same few tags.

Last year, 4200 NR applied for 3 Henry's Any Weapon deer tags resulting in drawing odds of 1:1400. If 20% fewer NR applied in Utah because they didn't see the worth with only being able to apply for one species, instead of all species, the applicants would decrease. Last year, 1700 NR applied for 2 San Juan Any Weapon elk tags resulting in drawing odds of 1:850. Imagine if every NR had to choose between elk or deer how many fewer hunters would be in each drawing pool... it would be roughly half the applicants (disregard antelope for this discussion, though it would only increase the validity of my argument). The NR Henry's odds would be 1:560. (4200 x 80% = 3360, 3360/2 = 1680 applicants for 3 tags). Using the same calculation, the odds of drawing San Juan Elk would be 1:340. Obviously my numbers are merely suppositions but regardless of the ratio of elk:deer applicants, should they have to make the choice, and how many would drop out if they only got to apply for one LE and one OIL each year, the basis of my argument is true. You can substitute your own numbers for guesses if you'd like.

Bottom line is allowing NR to apply for each species causes their overall odds of drawing to go down but DWR makes more money, which is their goal in the first place. To be clear, I'm not begrudging them their goal of increasing revenue, but do not conflate that with some aim of "increasing NR draw odds" by allowing them to apply for multiple species.

POINT SYSTEMS DON'T CHANGE OVERALL ODDS!!! It is always tags divided by applicants. To increase odds you must either increase tags or decrease applicants. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------
"This is a classic case of a handful of greedy fly fishermen getting too greedy." -Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as told to KUTV

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News
 
Bo,
Shrinking resource means the value goes up. It's the dollars that will keep the wildlife that's just a sad reality.
 
Muley says

?Shrinking resource means the value goes up. It's the dollars that will keep the wildlife that's just a sad reality.?

Are you acknowledging that the resources are shrinking?
Because with the money $FW makes, along with the state, (while auctioning off more tags than all other western states combined), we should have flourishing populations right? Habitat that can easily provide more bigger herds and winter ranges in outstanding conditions.
The sad reality is that $FW has sold the idea to the DWR that more money made equates to more animals. Which is false!
I don't recall any survey/offer ever being on the table whether or not hunters would rather pay an increase in hunting tags or keep tags at the expo.


"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
You?re over simplifying a complex issue. No it's not just the overall dollars it's the leverage that is connected to those dollars. Because the animals are actually the Kings. And the King doesn't really care about managing them to maximum potential.
Question...why do the Expo Tags and and Conservation Tags have such value?
 
Grizzly
Great info in you're last post.
Anyone that reads that should have a good understanding of the gravity of the situation and what is really going on.
I wish I was that good at putting my thoughts into words.
Thanks
 
Grizz,
Good post....for NR. I'm resident as are most of the attendees of the Expo. So while you put a lot of effort into you're post it unfortunately is not correct to most of the people applying for Expo Tags.
 
Muley.....
Explain to me how do they know how many tags or even what tags to bring to the expo when allocations of tags haven't even been agreed upon yet?





"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-19 AT 03:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-19 AT 03:47?PM (MST)

The state/SFW
The expo was just completed for the year. Yet tag allocation hasn't been done and won't be done until April. Maybe the wildlife counts haven't even concluded. Animals may die with continued rough winter/cold temps etc.

We apply for tags before we even know how many tags are going to be issued. The reasoning given for that is they are still conducting counts by flying winter grounds.
So if they take 10% or 5% of the premium hunts to the expo, yet haven't allocated the tags for the year until April?s wildlife board meeting, how do they know?
Legit question




"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
 
It is a legit question. But why are you asking me? Or the SFW or MDF or RMEF? You should be asking the state, you know the biologists that Vanilla said he trustest so much.

I asked the question a couple posts ago and nobody wanted to answer. Why do the conservation tags sell for some much. Why do so many people apply for the Expo Tags? Why is value is those tags do high????
 
>But why are they willing to
>pay so much to skip
>to the front of the
>line?


Because of the tax benefit?
 
Typical answers.

Wonder if the tags would sell for as much if our wildlife wasn?t managed for harvest is mostly yearings???
 
Muley you seem to know everything, but have yet to say anything of value or swayed any opinions in favor of SFW. You know their agenda, please enlighten us on what the agenda looks like going forward? Where is the money going? What projects are being funded to support wildlife management? A few million dollar pheasants??? You've given nothing but the typical answers we get from a politician. How will our hunting heritage benefit from what SFW has accomplished. Nobody knows their agenda better than you, you've said that yourself soooo let's hear it. Sell us all on what an icon Don Peay is to western big game hunting. I'm all ears. My answer makes sense, the tags value are what they are because people are willing to pay it. Because they have deep pockets, hence catering to the elitist. It's become a pay to play past time, and becoming a pay a fortune to play past time no thanks to how SFW has pimped a public resource. Ill ask again, where is the money going??? Its gotta be in the agenda that you are privy to right???
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-19 AT 07:46PM (MST)[p]Bo,
How the helll would I know anything about the SFW??? I've started that they have done more than any other group to this point. Show me a better group and I'll join. Having any knowledge of their day to day I have not. You guys just like to jump to conclusions because I'm the only one that entertains your crying and picked on posts.

Manage for more quality on all units and I'd bet the price of a lot of those tags drop.
 
Haha because you told us all you did....

"I know Don and his agenda better than yourself...I'd bet an entire bag is shiney nickels I'm that."
Muley_73

Never argue a with an idiot they will drag you down and and beat you with their experience.
 
Bo,
You?re like most that argue on here. You base everything from one angle without looking at the big picture. It's funny that you all call the conservation and expo tags ?welfare tags?. Yet it's the masses standing in the line with their hand out looking for a tag every year. And want it at the cheapest rate. All kept under control of the king.

Hey since you never answered, I'm gonna guess you haven't hunted TX. But you were still totally confortable making a comment about the hunting available there.
 
Muley.

Twice you have used "the king" line. I know another guy who uses it as well, and he shares $fw vision. Mike Lee.

As for why they are valued?

AI is the easiest trophy in the west not considered high fence. A guy literally can fly in, kill a deer, and catch a plane in 3 hrs(1 he each way to airport).

Its also a tax write off.

They also over paid for a mule and guns. So does that mean all mules are worth that?

Why do you suppose, if $fw is so successful, and their direction so successful that after nearly 3 decades no other state has it? Why is it that 30 years later the exact words THE DON spoke in starting it could be re used today?

Remember. "The average hunter doesn't have a voice with DWR"

"We need to save the mule deer"

That was the supposed goal of $fw.

Have you been to a RAC? How about the WB meetings? Where is the voice of the average guy?

Are our deer herds any better off than they were in the 90' s?

Granted, there are some pheasants, (which they plant in the middle of tundra swan hunting), and every year a handful of dudes get a bonus tag.

And for that, we lost control of the WB. We enriched a group that openly works against average guys. And we are selling out to the highest bidder hunting in this state.

Its coming for you. Come up to N Utah and see what commercialized hunting looks like. Don't be so arrogant as to think its not coming south, it is, and when it gets there, YOUR KIDS will pay for it.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
I've lived and hunted in Norther Utah for 20 years before recently moving back south.
I see DWR counts that include deer that mostly live on a private land. They use those numbers to pump up the herd counts and justify more tags because the average hunters throw fits to over harvest. The SFW itsself has become neutered trying to cater to the same group. In the end it will not be the average hunter that keeps the tradition of hunting alive it will be those with the dollars and political pull. Groups like SFW only exsist because the government mismanages to begin with and all in name is affordable opportunity for the average joe. It's the equivalent of the media care or food stamps. But I'm not surprised that is the what you would consider succesful.
 
>Hoss,
>I've lived and hunted in Norther
>Utah for 20 years before
>recently moving back south.
>I see DWR counts that include
>deer that mostly live on
>a private land. They
>use those numbers to pump
>up the herd counts and
>justify more tags because the
>average hunters throw fits to
>over harvest. The SFW itsself
>has become neutered trying to
>cater to the same group.
> In the end it
>will not be the average
>hunter that keeps the tradition
>of hunting alive it will
>be those with the dollars
>and political pull. Groups
>like SFW only exsist because
>the government mismanages to begin
>with and all in name
>is affordable opportunity for the
>average joe. It's the
>equivalent of the media care
>or food stamps. But
>I'm not surprised that is
>the what you would consider
>succesful.

I agree that government mismanages. But you always confuse how $fw got power, with how they use it.

They got power from "supporting the average guy". They really got it from the prop 5 fight, that to their credit they were big players in. And to be honest, had they stayed on that path, i would be a member.

But they didn't. The Don got a taste of BIG power, and BIG money and pulled them that direction. Even as of today, with all the PR hits he causes, with outright disagreement in the ranks, THE DON is still in control. He has access to the politicians. He has access to the money.


$fw took advantage of a group that didn't want to be political(hunters), and a culture that is naturally obedient, and carved out a lucrative business fueled 100% by tags, taken from the average guy, and sold at a profit to their deep pocket membership.

But. I started a thread. Stay off it for a day or so. Just let guys comment and see what the issue is. $fw is as polarizing as BHA, and I'm fully aware of what BHA takes heat for, and don't discount that some is warranted. Something you and a few others can fathom with $fw.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
Are you serious??? I personally have stated disagreements with SFW multiple times, on this forum and personally face to face. You seriously can not look at the situation objectively.

In the end the views you support will do away with the sport of hunting far sooner than support for the SFW.
 
>It is a legit question.
>But why are you asking
>me? Or the SFW
>or MDF or RMEF?
>You should be asking the
>state, you know the biologists
>that Vanilla said he trustest
>so much.
>
>I asked the question a couple
>posts ago and nobody wanted
>to answer. Why do
>the conservation tags sell for
>some much. Why do
>so many people apply for
>the Expo Tags? Why
>is value is those tags
>do high????

Why do they sale for so high you ask? I will entertain the question.

I feel there are a few reason why.

1- It is because they have the money and want to "out do" the next guy. To me its almost like beating the chest. I have been to many of the auctions. To me, and yes thats me, it seems like they like to beat the chest. Many of these guys have money I cant even fathom. To spend that kind of money on a deer tag blows my mind. I bought my home 18 years ago for $150,000. My same home now is worth about $250,000. To buy a house or a deer tag? BLOWS MY MIND!!!

2- Many of them use it as a tax write off. Big money business owners need to get a tax break somewhere, right?

3- I feel that many of them get caught up in the hype. The "INSTA-HERO" mentality. The internet and mostly social media has ruined hunting. Think back to 20-30 or even 40 years ago. Hunting was about the meat, family and hopefully getting a giant. Now days, many are all about the giants and thats it.

4- I feel that if there were fewer tags to auction, they would be worth more and auction off at a much higher price. But the market is flooded with tags. I know guys that travel to a lot of banquets just to see if a tag goes for the right price. Many of those guys the last few years quit going since the prices have climbed so high. But it is flooded with tags. Like my home, 2600 SQ feet that I bought for 150,000 is now going for 250-275K. Is it worth it? NO. But there is a demand for the house. Same as the tags. It will continue to go up. I doubt you will ever see a decrease in price of tags.

Thats my 2 cents. I have more to say, but have to get back to work.
 
>Hoss,
>Are you serious??? I personally have
>stated disagreements with SFW multiple
>times, on this forum and
>personally face to face.
>You seriously can not look
>at the situation objectively.
>
>In the end the views you
>support will do away with
>the sport of hunting far
>sooner than support for the
>SFW.

BHA gets zero tags. Get zero "life elevated" tax money, has zero members on WB.

Comparing any group, BHA, to RMEF to $fw is apples to watermelons.

I remember what $fw was when they were doing raffles for guns, vs what they are now with 200+(local chapters have tags). Its not close. In fact I doubt they would still be viable.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Robi,
So you're saying your house is 150,000.00 but it's now worth 250,000. That makes sense completely. It's the increased cost of goods and services and also supply and demand. You?re right that the price of tags should go up if the number goes down. The reason it is so high to begin with is we manage the majority of our wildlife to be yearlings. I also agree they go higher with one upmansship. That's the point of the auction setting and big event. The state just does it online and you will lose that factor which is bigger than many realize.

If we managed for more mature animals and upped the price of all tags across the board you could generate more dollars easily. However the same group that hates and screams about the conservation tags also scream and yell when others try and push for more mature animals and higher tag prices. That group is the problem that holds back our wildlife and keeps it riding on the lowest edge possible. Unwilling to give anything up and still wanting more, without upping what they put in. Those people are a huge part of the problem not the solution.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-19 AT 01:16PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-19 AT 01:08?PM (MST)

Don't speak in code.

The give up is hunting. Are you willing to sit home.

The biology is easy. Less habitat=less game.

So are you willing to sit home so that someone else can hunt inches. And under Utah system means, are you willing to sit home so a guy who can buy his way around tag restrictions and waiting periods doesn't have to sit home?

What Muley will do is say, "yup, I'm for cutting tags", then he will jump in his truck and head to Colorado. As long as he has that out, he's all for creating "quality" here.

The vast majority don't head out of state. This is their hunt, so of course giving it up for deep pockets isn't favored.

That's the same attitude I see with$fw.

We aren't going to help fix a problem, less habitat, less access. We are just going to help drive up the cost, which benfits us because we sit at the head of the table.

I guess o missed $fw proposal to double license fees? They don't want to do anything to make their "importance" diminished. Otherwise we might see that they aren't that important?

When Utah deer hunting was at its height we didn't manage for quality, and had tons of access.

Now guys like Muley want ever expanding"quality" with less competition for it. But that's always a moving target.

I use gov tags for example. After years of killing off huge bulls guiding the gov tag, Doyle stands at WB to chastise the state for not having the "quality" anymore and says he won't guide gov tags because of it.

Biology says there are only so many 400+ bulls that will ever be around at one time ever.

So to maintain "quality" then only fewer guys should get to chase them? And only if Doyle is involved. To him quality means something way different than it does to me. But I don't have multi million dollar clients backing my thoughts with "charity", he does.

the average guy really only wants a chance. Not odds in their favor, not closes down islands, not closed units. He wants a chance to go, hunt, be successful or not based on him.

What the guys who finance $fw want is something special. Something easier. Something guaranteed.

Put everyone on same playing field, with the same rules and seasons, waits, etc. THEN if you want to make cuts, WE ALL BLEED TOGETHER, so be it.

But we aren't, and we don't, and $fw advocates for it to be that way. Lobbyists exist for one purpose, to create cutouts and special circumstances for their clients. Never forget the day job of $fw founder, and current "rain maker" is as a lobbyist.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
Minimizing the resource is what increases the value. You?re crying both ways.

So tell me this are you ok for the guys to jump to the front of the line if they are purchasing the tag at an RMEF function?
 
>Hoss,
>Minimizing the resource is what increases
>the value. You?re crying
>both ways.
>
>So tell me this are you
>ok for the guys to
>jump to the front of
>the line if they are
>purchasing the tag at an
>RMEF function?

No. Like I keep saying. In the pre internet and beginning internet days, to could see the argument that a 3rd party broker was needed.

Now? There is zero need.


You can't make the argument that budgets and management are underfunded, then give away revenue, (tags).


If you want to claim you "need " to have conservation groups have an expo, then why not have it as the states entity that rotates through conservation groups? 2 yrs $fw, 2 years rmef, 2 yrs, 2 yrs, etc. I will never go to a $fw expo. I might sheep, or moose, or elk org. Thus finding additional revenue from different groups. If extracting the most money possible is the goal.

I don't believe for a second that rmef auctioning a AI tag makes less because its rmef doing it. The tag sells itself.

Concentrated power is not good. Which we see with ONE group dominating the WB.

The expo is good for SLC. Good for trade industry.

Good for $fw.

In that order.

The same complaints made by THE DON in the 90' s are being made today. What has changed? Dwr still not listening to average guys. Deer numbers are dropping, access is shrinking. Milllions and millions dumped into one group, and short of getting AI opened, what have they accomplished for the money?


Last. I was talking to a guy I work with so this isn't my original.

Since your so into cutting. How about putting a video out of the tag you draw this year being burned? The state gets paid. You stay home. How about making this a movement? Why is it always someone else's responsibility to do it? And don't tell me you eat tags. I'm saying ASTAY HOME, NOT HUNT. How about a 3 year trend where you, MULEY, burn your tag and a Stay home. Not hunt. Not in any other state. For the good of "quality" you do that. Then I'd be glad to entertain all the "we need to cut" crap from u and your agreeers. Until then, your just stroking your own ego with 'how much you care". Your care stops at your ability to hunt.

Mine does to, I just don't blow smoke about my self righteousness, while yearly in the field doing what I thinknothers shouldn't.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
So you're not ok with it but you choose to only call out one group.

As far as my personal tags. I've shot 2 bucks in Utah in the past 11 years, including the buck i killed this past year. I've killed one mule deer in Colorado in that same time. I have points in AZ, CO, WY,. I apply in ID, NM as well. So 3 mule deer total on 11 years. I have 8 general season points, and many LE points. Yet i manage to still hunt many days in the West every year. So Hoss I'm way out in front of your 3 year tag theory. And I'm ok with that. But alas many are not and they strangle the entire herd.
 
>Hoss,
>So you're not ok with it
>but you choose to only
>call out one group.
>
>As far as my personal tags.
> I've shot 2 bucks
>in Utah in the
>past 11 years, including the
>buck i killed this past
>year. I've killed one
>mule deer in Colorado in
>that same time. I have
>points in AZ, CO, WY,.
> I apply in ID,
>NM as well.
>So 3 mule deer total
>on 11 years. I
>have 8 general season points,
>and many LE points.
>Yet i manage to still
>hunt many days in the
>West every year. So
>Hoss I'm way out in
>front of your 3 year
>tag theory. And I'm
>ok with that. But alas
>many are not and they
>strangle the entire herd.

Like I said. Youre not for sitting out like you prescribe happen here. You will gladly sit as long as you can hunt in another state.

So like I said, you don't actually believe your own "solution". Tear up you tag, stay home. Don't take your hunting to another state. SIT IT OUT. Do exactly what you talk about. SIT HOME.

Or, just Do what you do best. Tell everyone how great $fw is, but don't join.

Tell everyone they need to hunt less, but you hunt yearly.

If you aren't willing to SIT IT OUT multiple years to "increase quality", then stop telling everyone else they should.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Hoss,
Good thing Bernie officially jumped in the 2020 race. That's got to give you some hope I'm sure. At least there is a line to stand in...right?
 
I'm just disappointed the BHA nut who stood up and made an ass of himself and BHA was glossed over. You mean there aren't any pics or video?




#livelikezac
 
Guess I don't understand you guys. Some say the DWR could run the auction and make as much money. I don't believe that. I look at the expo auctions where Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Washington, RMEF, guides from around the world, etc. They send tsgs to the expo because they know thats where they can get the most money.
Also some say racs are a joke. If so why not apply for the rac to make it better. 8 meetings a year is not that much. Don't tell me you have no one to back you. MDF, RMEF, DU, Pheasants forever, BHA, trappers asso, City Official, etc. You can make a difference but only if you want to. Best place for your soap box.
 
>Guess I don't understand you guys.
> Some say the DWR
>could run the auction and
>make as much money.
>I don't believe that.
>I look at the expo
>auctions where Wyoming, Colorado, New
>Mexico, Arizona, Washington, RMEF,
>guides from around the world,
>etc. They send tsgs
>to the expo because they
>know thats where they can
>get the most money.
> Also some say
>racs are a joke.
>If so why not apply
>for the rac to make
>it better. 8 meetings a
>year is not that much.
> Don't tell me you
>have no one to back
>you. MDF, RMEF, DU, Pheasants
>forever, BHA, trappers asso, City
>Official, etc. You can
>make a difference but only
>if you want to.
>Best place for your soap
>box.

You always forget. That "service fee" that gets charged by $fw. Not to mention the salaries of dwr employees "thrown in" to manage the redemption booths. And the advertising the DWR does to push the expo. There is a total cost.

Ya. I'm saying the RAC process gets bypassed AFTER the meetings. After everyone stood on their soapbox. Otherwise $fw wouldn't of made sure they loaded the WB. And to get there you have to be tight with the gov.
Almost like a certain lobbyist for a certain special interest is. Almost like a certain special interest group is trying to be with Chaffetz? We've all seen it. All witnessed it.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>I'm just disappointed the BHA nut
>who stood up and made
>an ass of himself and
>BHA was glossed over. You
>mean there aren't any pics
>or video?
>
>
>
>
>#livelikezac

Who glossed over it? I didn't. If you remember i was bashing BHA for even being their. Then I called the dude out on this thread.

I'm more surprised I haven't heard or read Chaffetz speach.

You got a copy?

Did it include all his hunting success? Pics of his hunting lodge outside fox studio in ny? His IG posts of him, Romney, kerry, hunting geese?

The dude that PAID to attend, then was an azz, was included in the paid attendance numbers. In the end that is all that will be seen by Chaffetz in his campaign, and $fw if the expo contract ever comes back up.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>Hoss,
>Good thing Bernie officially jumped in
>the 2020 race. That's
>got to give you some
>hope I'm sure. At
>least there is a line
>to stand in...right?


You mean the guy who tells everyone about the "rich" while having 3 houses and flying first class all over the planet?


Sounds a lot like another guy I know who draws numerous tags every year then tells the rest of us we should sit home to improve "quality".

Practice what you preach. Burn those tags and sit a few seasons out. After all THAT WILL IMPROVE THE HERDS. And we all know, you're not a flaming hypocrite on the subject. Or that you ever talk out of both sides of your mouth.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Yes hoss in some cases a percent is paid. Mostly to cover auctioneer fee. And yesin most cases the money charged is divided between the groups. There is also cases where 100 % goes back to the seller. You are showing your ignorance in not knowing what takes place.
As to the rac, you best go back and listen to the wlb meetings and see how in most cases wlb is going with what has taken place in the majority of the racs.
The fact that you hate SFW is obvious but you lack in facts. Good luck in your endeavor to distroy those involved in SFW. They are strong and honest in their dealings which drives you nuts
 
Hoss,
The groups you openly support are the groups that openly support guys like Bernie.
I'm willing to pay to play. I'm willing to sit out a few years in an area that needs rested. Does no good because the tag numbers stay the same. You say that me going to another place to hunt is hypicrictical? How so? Yes I believe tags should be cut in some areas. Just because others chose to only hunt in those said areas doesn't make me a hypocrite for going to another place to hunt. I'm not holding them back from still hunting, they are free to go somewhere else as easily as I can.
Bottom line is you want a tag in your pocket every year. You want access to that as much land as possible, you want to hammer any group that doesn't provide you and support exactly what you want. You?re arguments are that of a spoiled child or a picked on victim. Step up and live your life but don't expect others to always agree.

Brother you live in a Capitolist society....capitiolize and stop whining.
 
Birdman, I hope your hunts went well last fall. I tried sending you a PM but it looks like you deactivated your account. Let me know when you are available to grab lunch like we discussed last fall. It is fun to argue on the internet but I have found that face to face discussions are usually more fruitful. You have my cell number.

-Hawkeye-

My Favorite Expo Tag Quotes:

"It is fair to ask how much comes in with the five dollar application fees and how much went onto the ground.? Don Peay of SFW during 3/31/2005 Wildlife Board Meeting.

"There will be a full accounting of how the applications fees are spent.? Don Peay of SFW - 9/26/2006 - Monstermuleys.com
 
>Yes hoss in some cases a
>percent is paid. Mostly
>to cover auctioneer fee.
>And yesin most cases the
>money charged is divided between
>the groups. There is
>also cases where 100 %
>goes back to the seller.
>You are showing your ignorance
>in not knowing what takes
>place.
> As to the
>rac, you best go back
>and listen to the wlb
>meetings and see how in
>most cases wlb is going
>with what has taken place
>in the majority of the
>racs.
> The fact that
>you hate SFW is obvious
>but you lack in facts.
>Good luck in your endeavor
>to distroy those involved in
>SFW. They are strong
>and honest in their dealings
>which drives you nuts

I don't HATE nobody. I am frustrated with $fw. In fact not to tools school but I'm disappointed with them.

I talk to$fw guts all the time. There's no hate. Some are on the board. Some are related to WB members.

Its disappointing that they are so tone deaf that they can't see a huge group of guys sitting here, just wanting them to live up to what they said they would do. Simply look at Hawkeyes and Grizzly tag lines.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 

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