Well then why are they pushing it for compound hunters? That chart doesn't say only for traditional shooters. And there are a ton of people using their findings to push Ultra heavy setups that are completely unreasonable.You know the Ashby studies were done with traditional equipment right? Not everything translates exactly, however there is a ton of wisdom nuggets in there
That makes alot of sense, if your max range is 20 yards you can go as heavy as you want.I happen to be good friends with the RF. Everyone get’s twisted up about 800 grain arrows, but he, along with a lot of guys would tell you that if guys would just bump up a little (like 500 grains), flying perfect, with a broadhead that is structurally solid, the results would be much better.
IMO the stuff translates very well to treestand WT hunting, and for shooting really big stuff, but it’s not practical for western big game hunting, a lot of times.
He’s a pretty smart dude…. You could listen to a lot less intelligent influencers. There’s plenty out thereWhy anybody with 3 firing brain cells listens to that guy or ranch fairy is beyond. me.
I will be honest I didn't even see they had chupacabra on there. That totally changes things and I'm all in with flinging rebar arrows, that's the only thing that would have a chance of taking down one of those beasts????I disagree with that list as far as how they categorized Chupacabra. It's not Small Game.
I think it belongs in the Unicorn category - along with H1000, Large Rifle Magnum Primers, Reloder 26, 300 PRC Brass..etc. They all don't exist.
Yep! You're all set then.I'm all in with flinging rebar arrows, that's the only thing that would have a chance of taking down one of those beasts????
You shot Elk at all of those distances and were able to measure that? That’s amazingSo I have tried his program to a Tee. I have his single bevel broad heads 315 grains. My total weight on my arrow was 715.
So I shot 3 of my 410 grain arrows at 20/30/40 yards.
Then I shot 3 715 grain arrows at 20/30/40 yards.
The results was speed is everything. I got more penetration on my 410 grain arrows than on the 715 grain arrows.
410 arrows was 4" Deeper than the 715 at 20 yards
410 arrow was 3.75" deeper than the 715 at 30 yards
410 arrow was 4.25 deeper than the 715 at 40 yards I believe this was because the 715 was moving so much slower.
His formula probably works great with recurves but doesn't work with compounds.
It's not necessary your speed, but the KE.So I have tried his program to a Tee. I have his single bevel broad heads 315 grains. My total weight on my arrow was 715.
So I shot 3 of my 410 grain arrows at 20/30/40 yards.
Then I shot 3 715 grain arrows at 20/30/40 yards.
The results was speed is everything. I got more penetration on my 410 grain arrows than on the 715 grain arrows.
410 arrows was 4" Deeper than the 715 at 20 yards
410 arrow was 3.75" deeper than the 715 at 30 yards
410 arrow was 4.25 deeper than the 715 at 40 yards I believe this was because the 715 was moving so much slower.
His formula probably works great with recurves but doesn't work with compounds.
You shot Elk at all of those distances and were able to measure that? That’s amazing
Your correct Jake KE is the key. the kinetic energy of an object is directly proportional to the square of its speed.It's not necessary your speed, but the KE.
I suggest going and looking up the tests Joel Maxfield is putting up on Facebook. He has tuned the bows so that the heavy set up and lite set up both shoot the same KE, the only difference is the heavy arrow is much slower. Penetration tests in multiple different mediums shows that at the same KE both arrows Penetration are almost equal.
He has also done tests showing how much farther the heavy arrows drop at different distances.
Some eye opening tests with modern equipment that completely busts the heavy arrow myth.
To maximize Penetration you need to find the weight/speed that maximizes your Kinetic Energy.
I tend to believe this is the secret sauce, personally.It's not necessary your speed, but the KE.
I suggest going and looking up the tests Joel Maxfield is putting up on Facebook. He has tuned the bows so that the heavy set up and lite set up both shoot the same KE, the only difference is the heavy arrow is much slower. Penetration tests in multiple different mediums shows that at the same KE both arrows Penetration are almost equal.
He has also done tests showing how much farther the heavy arrows drop at different distances.
Some eye opening tests with modern equipment that completely busts the heavy arrow myth.
To maximize Penetration you need to find the weight/speed that maximizes your Kinetic Energy.
I shot lighter with a mech… killed the elk but did not like the penetration, then I went a little heavier didn’t love the trajectory , now I’m right around 500 with a cut on contract broadhead. Seems to be a sweet spot for my set up. There is wisdom for RF and Ashby, I’m not joining the 650 and up club anytime soon but they make some good pointsI happen to be good friends with the RF. Everyone get’s twisted up about 800 grain arrows, but he, along with a lot of guys would tell you that if guys would just bump up a little (like 500 grains), flying perfect, with a broadhead that is structurally solid, the results would be much better.
IMO the stuff translates very well to treestand WT hunting, and for shooting really big stuff, but it’s not practical for western big game hunting, a lot of times.
That’s what I’m tuning up for my Elk tag in Sept (a VERY good one too). I’m shooting a 300 Spine with stock inserts and a 200 Grain Single Bevel. Right around 500 and it gives me a lot of all sides. I expect a pass through without any issues.I shot lighter with a mech… killed the elk but did not like the penetration, then I went a little heavier didn’t love the trajectory , now I’m right around 500 with a cut on contract broadhead. Seems to be a sweet spot for my set up. There is wisdom for RF and Ashby, I’m not joining the 650 and up club anytime soon but they make some good points
That’s what I’m tuning up for my Elk tag in Sept (a VERY good one too). I’m shooting a 300 Spine with stock inserts and a 200 Grain Single Bevel. Right around 500 and it gives me a lot of all sides. I expect a pass through without any issues.
For the Eastern guys or the Roosevelt Elk guys, where close up is the game, I wouldn’t hesitate to go heavier. You can absolutely split the shoulder on a Whitetail and pass through on Q to shots. That’s a big advantage. But…. You’re not shooting 80, reliably
I shot lighter with a mech… killed the elk but did not like the penetration, then I went a little heavier didn’t love the trajectory , now I’m right around 500 with a cut on contract broadhead. Seems to be a sweet spot for my set up. There is wisdom for RF and Ashby, I’m not joining the 650 and up club anytime soon but they make some good points
Exactly the sameI haven’t chronographed my arrows, but I’m pulling 70lbs with a 28.5 inch draw
I haven’t chronographed my arrows, but I’m pulling 70lbs with a 28.5 inch draw
I'm pulling 75lbs at 28.5 shooting a 410 grain arrow 310ish fps. Getting around 87.5 footpound/Kintec Energy.Exactly the same
(Velocity X velocity X Arrow weight)/450,800 = Kinetic energyYour correct Jake KE is the key. the kinetic energy of an object is directly proportional to the square of its speed.
I will have to go check out Joel. Thanks
90.16 to 93.35 foot pounds. Yep that is spitting them out there if your estimated speeds are accurate.I have not calculated my KE but I know it’s high. I shoot 500 grn axis long range with 75 pound draw and 30 inch draw length. I believe I am right around 285-290 FPS with my set up. My arrows will shoot through a Rinehart 18 inch target. They stop but tip passes through. More than enough for anything I like to hunt.
Gringo,I happen to be good friends with the RF. Everyone get’s twisted up about 800 grain arrows, but he, along with a lot of guys would tell you that if guys would just bump up a little (like 500 grains), flying perfect, with a broadhead that is structurally solid, the results would be much better.
IMO the stuff translates very well to treestand WT hunting, and for shooting really big stuff, but it’s not practical for western big game hunting, a lot of times.
Just saw this thread. I guess tell the last two elk that I killed with a 428 grain arrow it was not adequate. Whatever.
I don't disagree with everything stated. No I do not believe that stupid heavy 600gr arrows are the best, nor do I think that super light 300-390gr arrows are the trick either. Speed isn't the key, neither is heavy. But for a 150lb whitetail or muledeer....a 500gr arrow to me is a little over board but if they shoot well through your bow then awesome.
My main thing against RF is that he's almost stating that a 400-480gr arrow is almost useless, especially when he says they bounced off animals lol..come on. I started elk archery hunting with a standard arrow set up...100gr head, nothing special. I'd bet those arrows MAYBE reached 400gr and the FOC was nothing to talk about. Blew through a bull at 10 yards, a cow (frontal shot, exited the rear thigh) and another cow at 25.
Now adding to that, I have shot arrows that maybe hit the 350 mark with am 85gr broadhead when I was antelope archery hunting. I smoked one doe at about 30 yards right on the shoulder and it almost blew through her. I hit both lungs and the arrow bedded into the opposing shoulder blade. I do believe that if I would have had a bit heavier arrow It would have passed right through. Arrow weight should mirror the animal you're hunting. Whitetail or deer or antelope...I believe a 400gr arrow with 100gr on the front will absolutely destroy them. Elk and above and hunters should start going up, but 600gr to me is just ridiculous.