BOOK CLIFFS DEER COUNT!!!

[elkassassin]

Each Year Me & Jr do Deer Counts!

11-23-19!

4:30 A.M. Rolls around & We're off to the Book Cliffs!

We Start Counting as Soon as We can see!

We Cover as Much Ground as You can Cover in one Day & We Don't Give up till Dark!

200+ Miles in the Book Cliffs!

While We were on one way Roads We Only Counted Deer Going in/One Direction!

NO BS Counts here!

No Multiplying X 3!

Every Deer We seen was Documented!

We Hit the Most Popular places where We see the Most Deer in during the Rut!

We Looked for The 'CAPE BUCK' but we did not see him!

We Noticed a LOW Number of Fawns,Yearling Does & Yearling Bucks with only 3 Spikes being seen & No Forked Horns!

Number of Deer Counted:

Spikes: 3!

2 Points:20

3 Points:22

4 Points: 26

(Keep in Mind,on the 4 Point Count this includes 13- 4X3's & 3- 4X2's!)

We only Seen one Buck I'd say was older than 4 years old and he had Bad Genetics with Crab Claws on all Forks!

The Best Buck We seen was a 4X4 with Brow Tines,Nice Back Forks & Decent Front Forks,real symmetrical,another year if He makes it & He May be a Shooter!

They Were Ruttin Hard & We Never seen a Buck We Would'of Shot on a Coveted LE Permit!

We Never Seen a Buck that Had More than 4 Points on a side!

On to the Doe Count:

321 Does & Fawns!

Again,Fawn & Yearling Count is Low!

A Total of 392 on the Total Head Count!

We Should of seen a couple Thousand Head but to No Avail!

If I Done My Math Right I Came up with a Buck to Doe Ratio of about 22 Bucks Per 100 Does!

(((I Do Not Agree with Buck to Doe Ratio Management!)))

We Need some Total Number of Deer with way Bigger Numbers than we seen!

No, We did not hardly Scratch the Unit,But We did hit the Best Places we could with what time we had!

But I Do Feel Our Numbers will Give you some kind of an Average/Idea of what the Herd is looking like!

No,We did not see all the Deer!

And No,We did not count all the Deer!

We Done all We could do in one Day!

Now on to the other Animals We Seen & Counted that We were Not looking for:

8 Head of Elk! (Was Not Looking for Elk & We were Not Really where We woulda been looking for them!)

17 Head of BigHorns with one decent Ram!

3 Different Flocks of Turkeys,31 Birds!

137 Head of FERAL Horses!

I Know it's a Utah Thing but I Have alot of Outa-Stater's PM Me asking about the Book Cliffs so I Figured I'd Post it Here on the Deer Forum!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[rmanwill]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-19 AT 05:16PM (MST)[p]Thanks for sharing Elk. A good way to spend your Saturday.

Wish your count showed a better herd!!!

 

[Castnshoot]

Elk you may not realize it but you just made the Books sound like a super honey hole to most hunters through out the west.

 

[sjhgraysage]

How does this year compare to the counts in the past three years, if you have been doing it that long?

 

[slamdunk]

22 bucks per 100 does is right on track.....if it ain't broke, don't fix it!???

 

[elkassassin]

>How does this year compare to
>the counts in the past
>three years, if you have
>been doing it that long?
>

Hey sj!


numbers have been falling for several years!

2018 was the worst I've seen it!

Not just for numbers,but Antler Growth was down as well!

The Drought didn't do anything any good!

But that Ain't the Big Problem!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[slamdunk]

I took this picture up by PR Springs in August.

Maybe you need new binoculars???

 

[6ppc]

>

>
>I took this picture up by
>PR Springs in August.
>
>Maybe you need new binoculars???


love these photoshopped images!!

 

[elkassassin]

>

>
>I took this picture up by
>PR Springs in August.
>
>Maybe you need new binoculars???


Hey PUNK!

You're Right!

I Need New Bino's I Guess!

Bucks 3,4,6,7 & 8 are all that's left!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[one_dryboot]

I'm sorry there was one less buck roaming because of me

 

[elkassassin]

>
>I'm sorry there was one less
>buck roaming because of me
>

You are the Cause & the Problem booty!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[yoteduster]

IMO the books are just like the rest of the deer units here in N.E.Utah mismanaged and over Hunted years ago when the unit was closed to all deer hunting I was a goverment trapper down there I was camped there from September to April I worked the ground and flew it with fixed wing and chopper gunning coyotes I seen first hand the potential it has for big bucks the year before they opened it back up as a le unit we were seeing 180 to 200+ type bucks.. when they did open it up it got slammed hard..too many tags.. it did hold its own for two or three years then it started going down hill..heck I seen 30 inch two points back then that would score better than some of the 4 pointers they are taking off there today..if the book cliffs were ever managed right it would be a great deer unit today..but what do I know iam just a old man rambling on and that's my 2 cents worth

 

[lostinOregon]

Good Info bessie, interesting to see what the average guy counts on a day out. I have never believed the modeling counts that the agencies perform.

Rich

 

[Duckdon83]

We had a fun hunt out there this year. We defiantly didn't see the class of bucks we thought wed find with a Limited Entry Tag. I did find this one I thought you'd like.....

?

 

[Daxter]

The Book Cliffs unit is definitely struggling. There is currently a working group assembled with reps from MDF, SFW, RMEF, the RAC, landowners, BLM, SITLA, and Farm Bureau working on an action plan to try to address issues. There is also a huge GPS collar study looking at fawn and calf survival, and survival and movements of deer, elk, bison, cougars and bears. I think a lot of people acknowledge there are issues down there, but they don't all have the same idea for the solutions though. Hopefully that group can come up with some good ideas.

Sounds like you guys had a decent day classifying deer.

I just wanted to give a little clarification on how the DWR calculates buck to doe ratios - they are just that - the number of bucks divided by the number of does. Fawns aren't included in the calculation. Fawns are only included in the calculation of a fawn to doe ratio.
Approximately half of the fawns that survive the winter will be yearling does the next year and the other half will be yearling bucks. They are not counted towards the buck to doe ratio the year that they are fawns.

If you saw 321 does and fawns that would not be the number the DWR used to calculate a b/d ratio. Just for fun, assume you had seen 40 fawns per 100 does (a crummy number, but pretty close to what's often observed in the Book Cliffs) that would mean you had seen about 230 does and 91 fawns in your 321 antlerless animals. Calculating the b/d ratio with that number would put your ratio closer to 31 bucks per 100 does for an example.

Not trying to argue with your count or make any assumptions, just wanted to explain how the biologists come up with their numbers so you can see how the data they observe and report might not be that different from what you actually observed.

Dax

 

[elkassassin]

Well Dax!

The Fawns/Yearling Does/Yearling Bucks are Way,Way,Way down from what they should be!

So let's just say the Last 2-3 Years of Young Deer Survival SUCKS!

Anybody wonder/know what that equals down the Road here in a few years?

It Ain't hard to Figure Out!

Now We're up to 31 Bucks per 100 Does!

JUDAS!

F'N!

PRIEST!

I Was Hoping We'd see you out there Dax!

Been a While since I Chewed a DWR Officials Tail!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

One Thing I Forgot to mention:

We seen 2 Bucks & 1 Doe that were Collared!







I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Elkassassin your right it is way down and they know it is now unfortunately it's too late again

everyone that lives in the basin has tried telling them for years just like the elk you would think they would start listening to the locals that spend more time then they do out there

They have done a bunch of Habitat projects out there in the last 5 years or more and added tons of guzzler's out there and here we still are on a slow steady Decline

The real problem I see out there for are deer and elk quality is all the dam roads that's what's killing it out there it's truly the easiest unit there is in the whole state to go hunt

if they can't start closing some roads they need to just open it back up to general season.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Elkslayer!

They Don't Hunt it!

They Shoot it!

The "Roaded" Book Cliffs would be an Understatement!





>Elkassassin your right it is way
>down and they know it
>is now unfortunately it's too
>late again
>
>everyone that lives in the basin
>has tried telling them for
>years just like the elk
>you would think they would
>start listening to the locals
>that spend more time then
>they do out there
>
> They have done a bunch
>of Habitat projects out there
>in the last 5 years
>or more and added tons
>of guzzler's out there and
>here we still are on
>a slow steady Decline
>
>The real problem I see out
>there for are deer and
>elk quality is all the
>dam roads that's what's killing
>it out there it's truly
>the easiest unit there is
>in the whole state to
>go hunt
>
> if they can't start closing
>some roads they need to
>just open it back up
>to general season.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Broadside_Shot]

So if the Roads are the Problem, is the Roadless and Indian Reservation Herds Thriving?

 

[elkassassin]

>So if the Roads are the
>Problem, is the Roadless and
>Indian Reservation Herds Thriving?

No they are Not!

But You/We know that Right Broadside?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Broadside_Shot]

Unfortunately I do know the Book Cliffs...

I only asked these questions just to show that there is a Plethora of Problems out there...

 

[Lhedrick1]

My dad hunted there in November 2018. I think it was a voucher tag?

He had to drive for about a hour or until the four wheelers and pickup trucks dissappeared. Even then, he would be glassing deer in the bottom and here would come a sidexside. The deer would bed down until the sxs dissappeared and they'd get up and start feeding again. He ended up shooting a very old 160"+ deer. So old the tenderloins couldn't be cut with a steak knife.
Anyways, not sure where abouts this was on the cliffs but he saw 100+ deer a day. Mostly does and little dink bucks. Anywhere from 100 yards away to a mile or more. Looked like from the pictures it's very open country! But the guys he was with said it's nothing like it used to be!

 

[Gator]

Slam
If I burn my points can you get me close to that herd,
LOL

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[gznokes]

Bobcatbess, that's probably the best post I've seen from you on this website.
Dax, thanks for the education. An understanding of science and methods never hurt anyone.

 

[elkassassin]

>Bobcatbess, that's probably the best post
>I've seen from you on
>this website.
>Dax, thanks for the education. An
>understanding of science and methods
>never hurt anyone.

Maybe Not the Best!

But the Truth!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[slamdunk]

>Slam
>If I burn my points can
>you get me close to
>that herd,
>LOL

We'll have Bess start hauling apples out there in the spring and keep 'em in the area!?

 

[Vanilla]

Bessy, you should have got out of your SxS.

 

[elkassassin]

>Bessy, you should have got out
>of your SxS.

You Should Know By Now...........Niller!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[OwnMoreBone]

Thanks for your update Bessy, I'll keep looking at other units to burn my points...

OMB


There's room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potato's and gravy.