Draw Passes

ElmerFudd

Very Active Member
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2,466
Last draw question....

You get a low random number, but have marginal points for the first pass of the draw...They run the 20% to high points draw first...You get your second choice. Are you out of the second pass, or could you still improve to your first choice because of your good random in the second pass? I think the same random number goes through all passes...right?

Not that it really matters, just curious.....
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-11 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]

At the sake of being corrected....
You drew your 2nd choice in the "Bonus Pass", YOU'RE DONE.
They issue new random numbers for the 1-2 pass.

If you wanted another "chance" at your 1st choice hunt, you needed to use the same hunt for 1st and 2nd choice in the "Bonus Pass(this makes sure you don't draw a 2nd choice hunt). Because the "Bonus pass" only allocates 20% of the tags, if your 1st and 2nd choices are the same hunt, and the bonus has already filled the 20%, you will go into the 1-2 pass and have a shot at the remaining 80% of those tags, and that same hunt code is your 1st choice. If you get a new low number for that 1-2 pass, you could draw one of those remaining tags after being unsuccessful for the same tag in the earlier bonus pass draw.

The above works best for Residents because they aren't limited to the 10% cap. For the above to work for a NR, tags have to be available after the Bonus Pass. There are units where NR tags go into the 1-2 pass, generally the 4's, 5's and 6's.
 
Good explanation Bob. One more point, unless you plan to use choices 3-5, there is no need to put any second choice. Just putting a first choice will have the same result.

Just makes me wonder, what would happen if you put a first choice, no second, and a third? Is there any requirement to put a second choice if you put a third?
 
Unless something has changed if you go into the 20% round and don't draw then you don't get a shot at the 80% of the remaining tags that are issued.

If I remember there was a quirk in the draw that worked that way and most guys were oblivious to it.

Someone please tell me I am wrong. I pray that I am wrong but don't think so.
 
Your prayers are answered Creed. Everyone goes into the 20% round and those with the most bonus points are picked. If there are more with a given number (max) of points than available (at 20%) those with the lowest random numbers are picked. After the 20% draw, all remaining applications are assigned new random numbers and the rest of the permits (80%) are picked strictly on the basis of lowest random numbers first without regard to bonus points. Number of bonus points only affects this pass in that you get one random number for each point then the lowest one is used as your number. Therefore, those with more bonus points have a larger chance of getting assigned a low random number.
 
How does the Big Game Drawing work?
There are 3 phases to the Big Game Drawing ? the Bonus Point Pass, the First-Second Choice Pass, and the Third-Fourth-Fifth Choice Pass. Before each of the three passes in the drawing, each application is processed through a random number generator program. One random number for the application plus an additional random number for each group bonus point (which includes the Hunter Education and Loyalty bonus points) is generated for that application. The lowest random number generated for an application is used in the drawing process. An application receives a new random number for each Pass of the Big Game Draw.
Group Bonus Points occur in the Big Game Draw when 2 to 4 applicants apply on 1 hunt application. Group bonus points are calculated by adding the genus bonus points, loyalty bonus point, and hunter education bonus point for each applicant on an application and dividing that total by the number of applicants. The Department shall use the average number of bonus points accumulated by the individuals in the group, rounded to the nearest whole number. If the average has decimal digits equal to or greater than .5, the total will be rounded to the next higher number otherwise it is rounded down.
When an application is read and the hunt choices are checked for available permits, there must be enough permits available in a hunt choice for all applicants on the application, including non?resident caps; if not, the application is passed and the next one is read.
The Big Game Drawing, including the 20% bonus point pass, will be processed as follows:
First Pass (20% Bonus Point)
Twenty percent of authorized hunt permit-tags in each hunt number for deer, antelope, elk, turkey, javelina, and spring bear may be issued in this pass. Twenty percent of the total authorized hunt permit-tags (all hunt numbers combined) for both bighorn sheep and buffalo may be issued. Although 20 percent are available, the 10% nonresident caps are still in effect.

Each valid application is assigned the lowest random number from those generated for that application.
The application file for each species is sorted by group bonus points in descending sequence and then by random number within the bonus point groupings.
In the Bonus Pass, the first and second hunt choices for all applications with maximum bonus points are looked at first. If permits are still available from the 20% allocation, then the next lower bonus point category is looked at; and so on, until all of the 20% allocation is issued or until all applications with 1 or more bonus points are read. Applications with zero bonus points will not be included in the 20% Bonus Pass of the Draw.
As each application is read, the first and then second hunt choices are checked to see if there are any permits available as part of the 20% bonus point allocation. If there are enough permits available for each applicant on the application without exceeding the 20% allocation or the nonresident cap, the permits are issued to that application. If not, the next application is read and the first and second hunt choices are checked until the entire application file is read. Any un?issued permits from the "bonus point pass" will be returned to the available permits for each hunt. The Drawing will then continue to the next two passes.
Second Pass (1st and 2nd Hunt Choices)

For all valid applications which were unsuccessful in the bonus point pass, new random numbers are generated for each application with the lowest random number being assigned to the application. The same random number process as described above is used.
The valid application file for each species is then sorted in random number sequence only.
The first valid application (with the lowest random number) is read, checking the first and then the second hunt choices for available hunt permit-tags. If there are enough hunt permit-tags available for either of the choices and for each applicant on the application, without exceeding the nonresident cap when applicable, then the hunt permit-tags are issued. The next valid application in random number sequence is then checked for available hunt permit-tags until the entire file is read.
Third Pass (3rd, 4th, and 5th Hunt Choices)

For all applications which were unsuccessful with their first and second choices, new random numbers are generated for each valid application with the lowest random number being assigned to the application. The same random number process as described above is used.
The valid application file for each species is again sorted into random number sequence.
Each valid application is then read checking the third, then fourth, and then fifth hunt choices for available hunt permit-tags for all applicants on each application (without exceeding the nonresident cap). When hunt permit-tags are available for one of the three choices, they are issued to the application.
After the entire file has been read in the third pass, the hunt permit-tag issuance portion of the drawing has been completed. Applicants are then awarded an additional bonus point for each species for which they were unsuccessful with a valid application. The species bonus points for each successful applicant are then zeroed out for the species for which they were issued a hunt permit-tag.
Leftover Permits
Any hunt permit-tags not issued in the above three passes are eligible for the first-come/first'serve process. Applications are made by mail (or online, if available) and hunt permit-tags are issued to the first individuals who apply for these hunts. In the first-come/first-serve process, a successful applicant retains all accumulated bonus points.
 
Hello, I have just read your reply about the AZ draw. I have a question which I hope you can answer for me if you would. I have 6 pts for elk and am going to apply for 6A ML. Do I need to put 6A on both 1st and 2nd choices or would just first choice work the same. I know it sounds stupid but would like to know. Thanks in advance for any info....Tom
 
enter 3119 in the 1st choice box,for Your general "Muzzie" elk hunt in Nov.Another 2nd choice is reccomended,by most applicants --- Good Luck,
Bruce & SilverGrand
 

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