Expo Tag Fact Question, not a debate

littlejoe · Feb 27, 2013

I am hoping to get the facts on this question. Not a big debate of whether you support the program, DWR or SFW.

Question. If the expo was stopped and not done next year. Do the (200) tags that are raffled, or whatever word you choose to use, just go away or would they be added into the existing pool of regular draw tags?

I have heard varying answers on this question and not found anywhere in writing the answer to this question.

elkassassin · Feb 27, 2013

If Santa Claus..........................!

If the Tooth Ferry......................!

If the Easter Bunny.....................!

If......................................!

We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!

elkassassin · Feb 27, 2013

Sorry littlejoe!

You know I'm just RAZZIN Ya!

We can Skin a Buck,We can run a Trout Line, and a Country Boy Can Survive!

Robiland · Feb 27, 2013

Right now, if for some reason it ended today with out completion of the current contract for a few more years, I am not sure what would happen. It does say that the expo "can have UP TO 200 tags". Does not mean they have to have 200. Could be 100 or 50 tags. So I would say of the expo ended the current contract ends. Therefor, they go back to the public. So yes, they go back to the public if the expo ended.

grizzly · Feb 27, 2013

90% sure they would go back in the raffle (though a lot of them came from NR pool).

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.

Robiland · Feb 27, 2013

Sorry, that sounded retarded.

smitty · Feb 27, 2013

Most posts here do.

stillhunterman · Feb 27, 2013

>Sorry, that sounded retarded.

Not at all, but this one gave me a chuckle! You're a good guy Rob ;-)

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

1911 · Feb 27, 2013

Think about the children. You take away those tags and what is denny going to do during the rut?

llamapacker · Feb 27, 2013

While I agree with the sentiments posted above, I don't thnk the answer is quite so simple. On purpose, BTW.

Remember that tag numbers are set each year by the Wildlife Board. They do this with full knowledge of the conservation tags, convention tags, regular tags, etc., so one would assume that the total issued equals the total "surplus" available for harvest according to biologists. If only that was always true....

If the convention tags were to suddenly disappear, they wouldn't magically be added to the regular draw. Nothing is automatic. Yes, in theory the Wildlife Board would allocate more tags to the general public, but again, it isn't automatic, and the board can and does occassionally make decisions that keep us scratching our heads.

It is easier to track this type of thing with species like sheep where there are very few tags. Remove a couple auction tags here, and it is pretty obvious if more tags are issued in the geneneral draw. The water gets muddy a lot quicker when talking about deer and elk tags, that are issued in the thousands.

Regardless of if the tags are issued in the regular draw, it in clear that the auction tags reduce opportunity somewhat for the general public, even if just removing a few animals from the overall number available.

I do support a limited number of conservation tags, but don't get hung up in the nuance of the tags allocations to make your point.
Bill

smitty · Feb 27, 2013

Wth?? You finally sober enough to roll outta bed?

travishunter3006 · Feb 27, 2013

>Think about the children. You
>take away those tags and
>what is denny going to
>do during the rut?
>

what is denny going to
>do during the rut?

A blind-folded goat....

jd332001 · Feb 27, 2013

I thought they came directly from the NR pool so would they go back?????

As a non resi I quit going after I heard that they are taken from the non resi allocations. I looked at this years winners and noticed only 18 were NR that got tags (not including the ones that are non res tags only). I wish my home state of CO would take some of the best NR tags and "Somehow reallocate them to the resident hunters". I know all you Utah hunters will tell me too bad and stay home but its no different then when AZ and NM took tags away from NR's. Just my thoughts so go ahead and tell me whah whah whah. Just remember if you had been putting in for a state for years and they then reduced tags to NR and "reallocated them to the residents" you would be a litte upset. If I am wrong and this is not the case, please someone correct me.
Thanks, Josh

stillhunterman · Feb 28, 2013

>I thought they came directly from
>the NR pool so would
>they go back?????
>
>As a non resi I quit
>going after I heard that
>they are taken from the
>non resi allocations. I
>looked at this years winners
>and noticed only 18 were
>NR that got tags (not
>including the ones that are
>non res tags only).
>I wish my home state
>of CO would take some
>of the best NR tags
>and "Somehow reallocate them to
>the resident hunters". I
>know all you Utah hunters
>will tell me too bad
>and stay home but its
>no different then when AZ
>and NM took tags away
>from NR's. Just my
>thoughts so go ahead and
>tell me whah whah whah.
> Just remember if you
>had been putting in for
>a state for years and
>they then reduced tags to
>NR and "reallocated them to
>the residents" you would
>be a litte upset.
>If I am wrong and
>this is not the case,
>please someone correct me.
>Thanks, Josh

Post #9
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/20619.html#9

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

Zeke · Feb 28, 2013

>Sorry, that sounded retarded.

LOL. Not really. I stayed up with ya!
Zeke

treedagain · Feb 28, 2013

Utah Code R657-55 Wildlife Convention Permits

R657-55-3 Wildlife Convention Permit Allocation:

(1) The Wildlife Board may allocate wildlife convention permits by May 1 of the year preceding the wildlife convention.

(2) Wildlife convention permits shall be issued as a single series to one conservation organization.

(3) The number of wildlife convention permits authorized by the Wildlife Board shall be based on:

(a) the species population trend, size, and distribution to protect the long-term health of the population;

(b) the hunting and viewing opportunity for the general public, both short and long term; and

(c) a percentage of the permits available to nonresidents in the annual big game drawings matched by a proportionate number of resident permits.

(4) Wildlife convention permits, including special nonresident convention permits, shall not exceed 200 total permits.

(5) Wildlife convention permits designated for the convention each year shall be deducted from the number of public drawing permits.

Here is the Board Meeting where the 2013 convention permits were determined:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/info/2012-08_board_packet.pdf

The numbers were submitted as:

Total permits: 200
Resident Pool: 145
Non-resident Pool: 55

As I understand it, only the Sheep tags were in question.

From the 2012 Convention Permit Audit:

Percent/Tags of Applications 2012:
Resident: 86.15% Tags Issued: 178
Non Resident: 13.85% Tags Issued: 22

These figures are fairly representative from passed conventions. Take from it what you will.

Finn · Mar 1, 2013

Not highjacking the thread because I'm not changing the subject, but this whole con tag thing sets on the premise that the money is good for wildlife AND the money is dependent on the tags.

I call bullshit. Nature Conservancy shows over 6 million in assets in 2012. They didn't have to peddle any tags to raise that money.

PETA racked in over $34 million in donations in 2010. No tags, there.

Defenders of Wildlife posted over 34 million in assets in 2011. No tags, there.

HSUS has over a million members and 231 million dollars in assets circa 2012. No tags, there.

So the question begs answering. If hunters require a tag as a premium to donate to the cause they most love, just how much do hunters love?

I don't buy it and I find SFW's premise insulting. You don't have to pass out tags to get hunters to donate.

But you do have to work. (Sorry for dropping the "W" word.)

Obviously, tags aren't required to generate donations, even donations for wildlife. Tags are just required for the continuation of SFW.