just the facts

cabinfever

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This research was conducted by the heritage foundation and has some disturbing results. The "makers" (those who make an income) made an average income of $32,478 whilst the "takers" (those who live off of goverment programs) average income is $32,778.

If this don't speak volumes about where america is heading I don't know what does?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-12 AT 10:37AM (MST)[p]You realize that they are including those collecting Social Security and Medicare to get to those levels of government spending. This is not the welfare mom on TANF that is getting $32,000 but rather the increasing cost of medicare and medicaid that are figured into these figure.

Nemont
 
Nemont, my point exactly. How much longer are we going to be able to fund these programs before they collapse.
 
I'll put it this way I'm 55 and I don't see Social Security or Medicare in my future. I'm doing everything I can to insure when it goes away in 7 to 10 years that I and my wife will be ok. I understand it isn't fair having paid into it since I've been 14 but life isn't fair. It was set up unfairly and as such from its inception it was just a matter of time until its collapse or destruction of the U.S. economy.

I do have empathy for guys my age that haven't prepared. But I've never had an exceptionally high paying job neither has my wife and I inherited nothing. I think people with insight should have seen this coming 20 years ago.
 
When Social Security goes so does pensions,their's no way we can sustain 90,000 dollar a year teacher,fireman and so on unless they can drop social security and keep taxing us for it,hey that's an idea!
 
Cabin,

Go review my discussion on here with RELH and Triggerman RE: Baby boomers.

Medicare and Social Security if left untouched will break us. It is a simple math. Which politician is willing to take on the elephant in the room? The answer is right now none of them are.

Nemont
 
Cornhusker; I am not sure if SS was set up unfairly under FDR or if there where changes made later that allowed more money going out then what was paid in.

I see too many young people, and older ones also, who have been labeled "disable" drawning SS benefits and there is no way they paid into the system long enough to justify the amount they are getting.

I think that Congress over the years made changes in the system to benefit persons voting for them that will lead to the bankruptcy of the system.

SS was setup as a retirement system to draw on after working 25-35 years, not for someone drawing on it after a few short years of low income employment or even almost no employment and drawing far more then they ever put into the system.

Yes there will have to be changes made or the intire system will go belly up and everybody, including the ones that paid in for over 30 years will be out in the cold. I have to agree with Nemont, Congress does not want to take this on and be labeled the bad guy at election time. They will be more prone to let it fail on it's own merits and blame someone else for the failure to protect their votes at election time.

RELH
 
RELH I like the way you put that and couldn't agree more on most of it. I have kids that are driving new cars because their parents are disabled so they can receive SS payments, they also receive payments if parental care is taken away and grandparents take care of them.

264 What have you been smoking and where do you live $90,000 pensions. Lets figure this out since its public record for me. I make roughly $44,000 a year of this I pay 8.? into a retirement pension plan, the district matches the same amount. I receive 2% of my top 3 earning years for every year I teach. I will teach at least 35 years so that's 70% of probably around $50,000 by that time. I then am responsible for my own insurance. Find a way that figures out to $90,000 and I'll pay you a finders fee.

Sometimes 264 I wonder if you actually have numbers that match those you post or you just lie. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and figure you live in California. Remember public pension system is funded differently some are in good shape some not so good. When you talk about funding them as in mine have you paid much taxes in Nebraska lately?
 
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SS was a trust fund until Johnson. If he would have left it alone it still would have run out of money eventually but not for another generation or two. Then the democrats decided illegals had a right to SS money and handicapped people and the mentally ill. It was never intended for those people. Better look at government pensions if you want to make some cuts. That one will make SS look like chicken feed. Never hear much about cutting pensions for government workers do we?
 
Now imagine when Uncle Ben Bernanke can no longer artificially hold interest rates at zero and in order for us to attract buyers of our debt we have to pay 4,5,6 or even 7% on that money, including rolling over old debt into new debt. Just the interest payment alone will swamp our system.

The printing presses can only paper over the truth for so long.

Nemont
 
Glen,

It would not matter whether or not the SS system was filled with cash, bonds or gold. It would never begin to cover the costs of what has been promised.

By law the only thing the Social Security trust fund can own is government bonds. When one looks at our national debt look under Intragovernmental Debt, that $4.9 Trillion amount includes the Social Security Trust fund, even if it was full of cash it doesn't mean anything other than taxpayers are on the hook to pay for it. That remains true today, there is still a trust fund and it is still liquid but it owns U.S. debt. That is what it would have owned even if the money wasn't borrowed from it.

Social Security is a pay as you go system, any surplus or trustfund is merely an accounting gimmick and it is a mirage. It as a mirage before Johnson used it to finance the Vietnam war and it was a mirage after.

By only holding bonds Social Security was loaning money to the Federal Government the day it withheld it's first dollar.

The Office of Management and Budget has described the distinction as follows:


These [Trust Fund] balances are available to finance future benefit payments and other Trust Fund expenditures ? but only in a bookkeeping sense.... They do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits. Instead, they are claims on the Treasury that, when redeemed, will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures. The existence of large Trust Fund balances, therefore, does not, by itself, have any impact on the Government's ability to pay benefits. (from FY 2000 Budget, Analytical Perspectives, p. 337)


It is instructive to note that the $2.5 trillion Social Security Trust Fund has value, not as a tangible economic asset, but because it is a claim on behalf of beneficiaries on the goods and services produced by the working population. This claim will be enforced by the United States Government although the precise monetary mechanism of enforcement is yet to be determined. In order to repay the Trust Fund, the United States government has three options, which may all be pursued to varying degrees.

(1) The government may issue debt by selling treasuries. Thus, $1 in debt to the Social Security Trust fund is replaced with $1 in debt to a different lender. This scenario would increase the tax burden on future generations if the interest rate is higher on the new debt. If the new debt is more expensive and government revenues do not increase sufficiently either through taxes of economic growth, the government would be forced to cut spending on other programs (such as Defense, Education, Research) or else default on all or part of the debt.

(2) The government may raise taxes. If taxes are raised across the board, ironically, by reducing take home pay for workers, the government could make it harder for the younger, working generations to invest and save for retirement. However, if taxes are raised only on those whose earlier tax cuts were partially offset by these excess FICA contributions, namely those taxpayers whose marginal rates were reduced from 74% to as little as 28% during the Reagan Administration, the younger, working generations will not lose any ability to save or invest.

(3) The government may monetize trust fund obligations by transferring the treasuries held by the Trust Fund onto the Federal Reserve balance sheet. In such a transaction, the bonds would become "assets" on the Fed's balance sheet, and the Fed would create money "out of thin air" to purchase the bonds from the government. Under such a scenario, the bonds are converted into cash, which would then be used by the government to cover social security payments. This scenario would likely lead to increased inflation, as it would inflate the money supply without directly increasing the amount of goods and services produced by the economy as a whole.


The net effect is that it doesn't matter whether or not a Social Security Trust fund exists, what matters is our government ability to finance it's debts. That would be the same whether or not Johnson spent the money or didn't spend the money.

Nemont
 
Entitlement programs are not the only programs on the precipice of failure. I fear this is the calm before the storm.


To hear obama as he campaigns, you'd think the economy is back and better than ever. The truth is, even with the recent decrease in unemployment,were still at a net loss of jobs since 2007.
 
Corn I don't smoke,I live in CA.and I know personally teacher's that are getting 90,000 grand and I know his wife has a nice pension close to what he makes,also he has a an extra job working for Berkley.Our state is broke and those pensions are not going to be around.
 
Cornhusker; 264mag should have defined that amount as not a average, but it does hold true for some school and law enforcement retired.

About 10 years ago, P.E.R.S., Public employee Retirement System, only had 1% that received a retirement in excess of one hundred thousand dollars. Today there is 9% that receive that amount. Most are retired elected sheriffs, or Chief of Police officials and other high ranks in major departments.

The retirement system for teachers is worse. You would crap your pants to see what teachers earn if teaching at the college level. You would really crap your pants to see what a school dist. superintendant earns and retires on. My county is about 60,000 pop. and our school Superintendant earns right at $ 170,000.00 per year. We are a small county, the ones in the large counties are well in the 200 hundred thousand class.

Even our high schools now have a principal and several vice principals that draw high wages and high retirements and this goes into some of the elementary schools. The teachers union is sucking the system dry and adding more non teaching positions every year that flows into the retirement system.

My teacher son and daughter in law are really pissed over the way the teachers union has allowed the money to stop at the adminstration level and very little getting to the classrooms to help teach the kids and get needed supplies.

I hope your state of Neb. never gets to the point on what has happen here in this state with the teacher's union and the abuse of the tax payer's dollar.

RELH
 
Thank's RELH,Cornhusker I hope everything work's out for your retirement and rest of the States are taking a good look at CA. and prevent a mess like CA.
 

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