B
basinboy
Guest
After all of the comments on the other thread I thought I could share a few comments. Some of you will never read all of this because it will be long and you have already formed an opinion of me. I would ask the moderaters to let this go just like my previous post. First of all I am a hunter and some of the comments I make are going to touch a nerve with hunters but they are not made without substantial thought. I will break it out by subjects to respond o specific topics:
"He works for a developer."
When I hear this it is always easy to put blame on a group in a profession of people for all the wrong others see in the world. In this respect it is decreasing deer or elk herds. I would bet that everyone on this site are a beneficiary of land development. If you drive on roads, live in houses shop at stores I could go on forever. If you are willing to go get neutered and stop having familys you can stop reading and skip this subject. The point I would like to make is responsible land development. Land development is going to happen and Traverse Mountain is a the perfect area to look at. When the guys I work for went out and brought Cabelas to Lehi I thought that there might be some resentment from hunting groups in that it would get built on the property that we have been dicussing on the other thread. ( if you go to Cabels in Lehi there are are deer and elk within 100 feet as I write this email. Instead they got there biggest grand opening and their number one store). Kind of Ironic?? I work by and eat lunch there quite often. They are the second largest draw to the state second only to the mormon church. No boycot just record numbers. I have gone to shed fest there the last two years and enjoyed it. So if we are going to develop ground does that meen we should be totaly mindless to the animals that winter there? I have talked to the biologist who works this area and he states there's a lot more summer range for biggame than the winter range can support. So even though this land will mostly be developed over the next 15 years why not try to take the big game into consideration? Should we feed elk and make a long term commitment. Do you let hunters kill them all so its not on the news. I do not know the answers but stopping the land from being developed is not going to happen. I know many people who hunt the Wasatch unit and have success and see the benefit of trying to effect the outcome. Traverse Mountain is the last place to do this and there are parts of the mountain that are undevelopable that could be set aside and improved to create winter food sources for these animals. I have read conservation agreements from all of the groups who are envolved in this process and can see one day some of this ground getting set aside. Or it may get held privatly for the same purpase. This is a huge subject and could easily go on for pages but I would discuss this with anyone in a personal setting.
" His Motives are Self Serving "
Of course they are!!! So is anyone who goes out and gets a land lease or buys land, buys a landowner tag or hires a guide to kill a animal. We all have different objectives when we wake up each day and I doubt mine are much different then most of the people on this site. You would probly run into me at a hunting show and we could bs for hours.
This one gets touchy. I would say every one everyone on this site would like to hang a big buck or bull or a bird on the wall. Do you know how appalling this can be to some people? I can hear it know "We dont care " "They can stick it up there %^&%$" "Just gut shoot em " I can uderstand this but it is a fact of life that hunting is for the most part a form of recreation. Sure we eat the meat and enjoy and find ways to justify it. And I believe I have a write to hunt. I feel the same way about what I was doing on Sunday. You probly feel the same way about things you like doing. What may be self serving and make me a ass to some- other people don't care about. I hate peaple who speed and drive subaru cars or how about people who spend thousands of dollors to end the life of a animal and hang his head on the wall. If they did not kill him we could pick up his sheds for years. Other people could hike and look at him or photograph the animal. There is no right answer to this, only our own values and interests and motives guide us. If you want a shed season speak up same if you don't. If you want more mature deer change the current regs and start managing the entire state to do this. I would rather be able to get both my misguided son and myself a tag and hunt together and enjoy the experience for what it is. He shot his first buck this year on a north eastern tag and we still talk about it almost every day. If I knew how to post a pic I would. To put it in a simple form DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS and fight for what you believe in.
"Does the land owner know what he is doing"
They pay me to do it. I talk to them about big-game on a regular basis . They are not hunters but have been very helpful and my biggest supporters. They know I am a shed nut. Why do banks hire robbers to help solve bank robberies. I have no regrets in this regard.
"$500,000.00 for a few sheds"
This money has been spent to secure the property with other goals in mind. But I can say that it is 5 to 1 as far as who I have had cited for trespassing over the years. 5 being the guys with mule deer and elk stickers in there windows and 1 being the guys on a dirt bike or kids looking for a place to have a beer.
This to me as a hunter is a public image problem and is why hunters are being turned away more and more from private land.
"He is killing deer"
Every One on this site ate this up!! I can say without a doubt what kills the most deer and elk on Traverse Mountain. It is not poachers, coyotes, lions or starvation. I can tell you the months when they will die and have photos to prove it just don't know how to post them. They need to get a drink of water! This kills the most. They go to get a drink and we hit them with our cars. It starts in Auguest and does not end until the snow flys and sticks. It took me a few years to figure this out. We have installed troughs and after a little work have figured out what will make them drink from them. The elk don't care but the deer seem to be a little more sensitive. Coyotes are number 2 and then old fences. I know there are those of you who will disagree and I agree to disagree.
This one is for Hawkeye and Robinland
If you had kids and I hope you do and your son had just shot a deer and when you pulled up some guy was telling your kid what he was doing was wrong what would you do??? I got mad. All of you should think about this. I have already said I was wrong to loose my temper. I will apolgize for the temper but nothing else. I have spoke to my son about this and he understands and will learn from this. Good Lesson
Hyprocrisy:
The same guys who are lighting me up on this are talking about brown sheds on other threads. Maybe there is no snow there but there are huge slopes on Traverse Mountain with no snow. There are pictures on the cover of this shed video of guys standing in snow. I bring this up not to judge but only as a talking point. Every fall hunters chase deer and elk into the ground in snow and mud. It could be said that this depletes there energy reserves going into winter?? Some of the best hunting happens after it snows and the animals start to move. I would like Awhollatabull,Huntsannorra,Chloride or any else who has a legitamate reason that is not driven by the desire to kill animals to answer this one.Do you quit hunting if it snows. NO one does because it does not serve there own personnel objectives. ONCE AGAIN DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.
The reason I state names is you guys are the ones who will take the time to read this. Bobcat I will call you I do have family in the basin and I can't wait to talk to some-one famous from Altamont.
Poaching
This One is in defense of all us UTARDS If you think poaching stops because you cross some non existent line you are living a pipe dream. I could not beleive whats happening here. I would bet it happens other places.
Last Thougtht. I have no regrets with what I have done. I will glady meet, talk on the phone accept advice that is not unjustlie motivated from peaple who have a solid viewpoint but if you just want to be a jerk save-it I will try and do the same. AS for my son He is a great kid and we will share many more days doing the things we love doing with the rest of my family. I hope you do the same.
Karl Karren
"He works for a developer."
When I hear this it is always easy to put blame on a group in a profession of people for all the wrong others see in the world. In this respect it is decreasing deer or elk herds. I would bet that everyone on this site are a beneficiary of land development. If you drive on roads, live in houses shop at stores I could go on forever. If you are willing to go get neutered and stop having familys you can stop reading and skip this subject. The point I would like to make is responsible land development. Land development is going to happen and Traverse Mountain is a the perfect area to look at. When the guys I work for went out and brought Cabelas to Lehi I thought that there might be some resentment from hunting groups in that it would get built on the property that we have been dicussing on the other thread. ( if you go to Cabels in Lehi there are are deer and elk within 100 feet as I write this email. Instead they got there biggest grand opening and their number one store). Kind of Ironic?? I work by and eat lunch there quite often. They are the second largest draw to the state second only to the mormon church. No boycot just record numbers. I have gone to shed fest there the last two years and enjoyed it. So if we are going to develop ground does that meen we should be totaly mindless to the animals that winter there? I have talked to the biologist who works this area and he states there's a lot more summer range for biggame than the winter range can support. So even though this land will mostly be developed over the next 15 years why not try to take the big game into consideration? Should we feed elk and make a long term commitment. Do you let hunters kill them all so its not on the news. I do not know the answers but stopping the land from being developed is not going to happen. I know many people who hunt the Wasatch unit and have success and see the benefit of trying to effect the outcome. Traverse Mountain is the last place to do this and there are parts of the mountain that are undevelopable that could be set aside and improved to create winter food sources for these animals. I have read conservation agreements from all of the groups who are envolved in this process and can see one day some of this ground getting set aside. Or it may get held privatly for the same purpase. This is a huge subject and could easily go on for pages but I would discuss this with anyone in a personal setting.
" His Motives are Self Serving "
Of course they are!!! So is anyone who goes out and gets a land lease or buys land, buys a landowner tag or hires a guide to kill a animal. We all have different objectives when we wake up each day and I doubt mine are much different then most of the people on this site. You would probly run into me at a hunting show and we could bs for hours.
This one gets touchy. I would say every one everyone on this site would like to hang a big buck or bull or a bird on the wall. Do you know how appalling this can be to some people? I can hear it know "We dont care " "They can stick it up there %^&%$" "Just gut shoot em " I can uderstand this but it is a fact of life that hunting is for the most part a form of recreation. Sure we eat the meat and enjoy and find ways to justify it. And I believe I have a write to hunt. I feel the same way about what I was doing on Sunday. You probly feel the same way about things you like doing. What may be self serving and make me a ass to some- other people don't care about. I hate peaple who speed and drive subaru cars or how about people who spend thousands of dollors to end the life of a animal and hang his head on the wall. If they did not kill him we could pick up his sheds for years. Other people could hike and look at him or photograph the animal. There is no right answer to this, only our own values and interests and motives guide us. If you want a shed season speak up same if you don't. If you want more mature deer change the current regs and start managing the entire state to do this. I would rather be able to get both my misguided son and myself a tag and hunt together and enjoy the experience for what it is. He shot his first buck this year on a north eastern tag and we still talk about it almost every day. If I knew how to post a pic I would. To put it in a simple form DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS and fight for what you believe in.
"Does the land owner know what he is doing"
They pay me to do it. I talk to them about big-game on a regular basis . They are not hunters but have been very helpful and my biggest supporters. They know I am a shed nut. Why do banks hire robbers to help solve bank robberies. I have no regrets in this regard.
"$500,000.00 for a few sheds"
This money has been spent to secure the property with other goals in mind. But I can say that it is 5 to 1 as far as who I have had cited for trespassing over the years. 5 being the guys with mule deer and elk stickers in there windows and 1 being the guys on a dirt bike or kids looking for a place to have a beer.
This to me as a hunter is a public image problem and is why hunters are being turned away more and more from private land.
"He is killing deer"
Every One on this site ate this up!! I can say without a doubt what kills the most deer and elk on Traverse Mountain. It is not poachers, coyotes, lions or starvation. I can tell you the months when they will die and have photos to prove it just don't know how to post them. They need to get a drink of water! This kills the most. They go to get a drink and we hit them with our cars. It starts in Auguest and does not end until the snow flys and sticks. It took me a few years to figure this out. We have installed troughs and after a little work have figured out what will make them drink from them. The elk don't care but the deer seem to be a little more sensitive. Coyotes are number 2 and then old fences. I know there are those of you who will disagree and I agree to disagree.
This one is for Hawkeye and Robinland
If you had kids and I hope you do and your son had just shot a deer and when you pulled up some guy was telling your kid what he was doing was wrong what would you do??? I got mad. All of you should think about this. I have already said I was wrong to loose my temper. I will apolgize for the temper but nothing else. I have spoke to my son about this and he understands and will learn from this. Good Lesson
Hyprocrisy:
The same guys who are lighting me up on this are talking about brown sheds on other threads. Maybe there is no snow there but there are huge slopes on Traverse Mountain with no snow. There are pictures on the cover of this shed video of guys standing in snow. I bring this up not to judge but only as a talking point. Every fall hunters chase deer and elk into the ground in snow and mud. It could be said that this depletes there energy reserves going into winter?? Some of the best hunting happens after it snows and the animals start to move. I would like Awhollatabull,Huntsannorra,Chloride or any else who has a legitamate reason that is not driven by the desire to kill animals to answer this one.Do you quit hunting if it snows. NO one does because it does not serve there own personnel objectives. ONCE AGAIN DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.
The reason I state names is you guys are the ones who will take the time to read this. Bobcat I will call you I do have family in the basin and I can't wait to talk to some-one famous from Altamont.
Poaching
This One is in defense of all us UTARDS If you think poaching stops because you cross some non existent line you are living a pipe dream. I could not beleive whats happening here. I would bet it happens other places.
Last Thougtht. I have no regrets with what I have done. I will glady meet, talk on the phone accept advice that is not unjustlie motivated from peaple who have a solid viewpoint but if you just want to be a jerk save-it I will try and do the same. AS for my son He is a great kid and we will share many more days doing the things we love doing with the rest of my family. I hope you do the same.
Karl Karren