SFW to propose 5% tags for a convention?!
- Thread starter Silentstalker
- Start date
What the heck, might as well try to be #101! I have to admit a little bias here, being that most of my hunting is as a nonresident in other states. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to move where you can get decent work and this doesn't always come with the desired type of hunting. It is interesting lately the backlash against nonresidents and how much some hunters seem to despise us. Odds are that most of us are decent guys that just want to have an opportunity to hunt. That being said, in regards to the current topic, this just seems to be another example of this mentality. I fully understand residents of any state being somewhat territorial of the state and it's wildlife. However, this seems a little short sighted and selfish in many aspects. Seeing we're talking about Utah here, as a case in point, it was not that long ago that the elk hunting was less than to be desired. During that time, I know many people were part of the nonresident hunting pool in other states. If you wanted to hunt elk, it was the best opportunity. But it seems like now that some good work has been done and the Utah elk herd is looking pretty good, the mentality is "to heck with the nonresidents". The sad part is, in todays society, hunting is being continually attacked and being limited if not banned in many areas. It's sad that as a part of the hunting fraternity, we also participate in limiting other hunters opportunities. Thanks for reading and Merry Christmas.
D
dkpeay
Guest
Sludge and Ramslam,
You both make some exceptional points.
One part of this convention addresses and answers both your concerns.
The major groups, RMEF, MDF, SFH, SFH, FNAWS, and NWTF will all possibly make this one big convention their "national convention" in a couple of years. This means it saves exibitors, hunters, everyone millions of dollars in travel and time to go to five shows - now maybee just one. More money for conservation, more money to fight anti-hunting groups.
In reality, NWTF will always have their national convention east of the Missisippi that is the bulk of their members, however, and making it clear not speaking for NWTF or their board, but their leaders are looking at this as a "western states regional event."
Ramslam, the FNAWS convention may be in SLC in 2006 - this one, apply there. Go to one, save money, save time, get a stronger voice!! Make more wildlife for everyone - res. and non-res.
Finally, it has the potential to unit sportsmen and sportsmen groups like never before. It could save us tens of millions of dolalrs in costs.
This money is invested into wildlife to grow more herds and bigger herds for everyone, residents and non-residents. ANd, it allows us to spend more time and monney taking on the anti-hunters, who by the way just merged into one big one group to end all of our hunting.
Those who see the big picture see this has huge potential and everone wins. As one very smart businessman - who has absolutely nothing to gain from this convention, "the only people who are opposed to this will be the groups who do not like the wildlfie conservatoin and hunting agenda."
Merry Christmas, any more Qs answered at [email protected]
Don Peay
You both make some exceptional points.
One part of this convention addresses and answers both your concerns.
The major groups, RMEF, MDF, SFH, SFH, FNAWS, and NWTF will all possibly make this one big convention their "national convention" in a couple of years. This means it saves exibitors, hunters, everyone millions of dollars in travel and time to go to five shows - now maybee just one. More money for conservation, more money to fight anti-hunting groups.
In reality, NWTF will always have their national convention east of the Missisippi that is the bulk of their members, however, and making it clear not speaking for NWTF or their board, but their leaders are looking at this as a "western states regional event."
Ramslam, the FNAWS convention may be in SLC in 2006 - this one, apply there. Go to one, save money, save time, get a stronger voice!! Make more wildlife for everyone - res. and non-res.
Finally, it has the potential to unit sportsmen and sportsmen groups like never before. It could save us tens of millions of dolalrs in costs.
This money is invested into wildlife to grow more herds and bigger herds for everyone, residents and non-residents. ANd, it allows us to spend more time and monney taking on the anti-hunters, who by the way just merged into one big one group to end all of our hunting.
Those who see the big picture see this has huge potential and everone wins. As one very smart businessman - who has absolutely nothing to gain from this convention, "the only people who are opposed to this will be the groups who do not like the wildlfie conservatoin and hunting agenda."
Merry Christmas, any more Qs answered at [email protected]
Don Peay
D
dkpeay
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-04 AT 08:50PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-04 AT 08:09 PM (MST)
Sludge, you are right on, if everyone will actually come together, we can all (res and Non. res) have better quality and more opportunity.
400 bulls are common in Utah now, they were never dreamed of ten years ago. Lots of great bucks - 30-34 inches were taken this year on public land, general season. It can be done, when sportsmen unit.
Here is a look at the progress, and what our goals are for Utah, each state could build a group to do the same
Number of permits.
Species 1990 2004 2010
Bighorn 9 55 100
Elk 400 1385 2500
Deer buck/doe ratio 7 16 22
Turkey 300 1800 15,000
Moose 120 120 120
Bison 20 50 70
Goat 5 35 70
Note: The general season deer hunt is getting better, many hunters said, "the best in 20 years" This is for 97,000 hunters.
These limited draw permits are some of the worlds best. Another change required in hunters mentality. We might not draw a great permit every year, but a friend or brother, or uncle or child will. We all go to camp, we all go "on the hunt" but there is one person in camp with a permit and the gun.
At this convention, all the major sportsmen groups will work together. Residents and non-resdients will work together and share in permits equally according to the luck of the draw.
If hunters don't unite, there will be nothing to fight over, we'll just see a bunch of wolf and coyote terds full of hair.
The reason why sportsmen by and large are excited in Utah, you can see progress made in the chart above.
this has been done with just ten percent of the hunters joining together and working together with the game and fish. Imagine what could be done if 100% of the hunters got together!! Oh baby, watch out, we will own the world.
An eternal optomist, with data to prove progress to anyone who will look at the facts. If we make 3,000 more great tags a year through habitat investment, that is 30,000 more tags over ten years. If ten states do that, that is 300,000 - some real numbers. Pretty simple math, the hard part is getting every hunter on board.
Don
Sludge, you are right on, if everyone will actually come together, we can all (res and Non. res) have better quality and more opportunity.
400 bulls are common in Utah now, they were never dreamed of ten years ago. Lots of great bucks - 30-34 inches were taken this year on public land, general season. It can be done, when sportsmen unit.
Here is a look at the progress, and what our goals are for Utah, each state could build a group to do the same
Number of permits.
Species 1990 2004 2010
Bighorn 9 55 100
Elk 400 1385 2500
Deer buck/doe ratio 7 16 22
Turkey 300 1800 15,000
Moose 120 120 120
Bison 20 50 70
Goat 5 35 70
Note: The general season deer hunt is getting better, many hunters said, "the best in 20 years" This is for 97,000 hunters.
These limited draw permits are some of the worlds best. Another change required in hunters mentality. We might not draw a great permit every year, but a friend or brother, or uncle or child will. We all go to camp, we all go "on the hunt" but there is one person in camp with a permit and the gun.
At this convention, all the major sportsmen groups will work together. Residents and non-resdients will work together and share in permits equally according to the luck of the draw.
If hunters don't unite, there will be nothing to fight over, we'll just see a bunch of wolf and coyote terds full of hair.
The reason why sportsmen by and large are excited in Utah, you can see progress made in the chart above.
this has been done with just ten percent of the hunters joining together and working together with the game and fish. Imagine what could be done if 100% of the hunters got together!! Oh baby, watch out, we will own the world.
An eternal optomist, with data to prove progress to anyone who will look at the facts. If we make 3,000 more great tags a year through habitat investment, that is 30,000 more tags over ten years. If ten states do that, that is 300,000 - some real numbers. Pretty simple math, the hard part is getting every hunter on board.
Don
D
dkpeay
Guest
Scmaltz,
In the spirit of a cease fire over Christmas, IF Milwakee and Wisconsin grew all these criters, and Wisconsin hunters fought as hard as Utah hunters had to grow ours, and you had a convention in Milwakee and offered us some more of your tags to grow more critters, I would be there!!
The reason the convention is in SLC, is because these are Utah tags, and it is Utah people that have fought to grow them.
I personally respect all hunters and the Federal ownership of land. I like to hunt other states occasionally as well on public land. Therefore, a lot of us work hard to grow more critters, and we enjoy all hunters who come out and hunt the west.
However, in all honesty, the biggest obstructionists to growing more criters on our federal lands, is the Federal Government and the employees that manage them!!!! I can cite you 100 examples!
There is more non-rsident tags in Utah than there were ten years ago. OUr goal is to have alot more tags for residents and non-residents in 2010 than there is today. We have a track record of getting it done.
In the spirit of a cease fire over Christmas, IF Milwakee and Wisconsin grew all these criters, and Wisconsin hunters fought as hard as Utah hunters had to grow ours, and you had a convention in Milwakee and offered us some more of your tags to grow more critters, I would be there!!
The reason the convention is in SLC, is because these are Utah tags, and it is Utah people that have fought to grow them.
I personally respect all hunters and the Federal ownership of land. I like to hunt other states occasionally as well on public land. Therefore, a lot of us work hard to grow more critters, and we enjoy all hunters who come out and hunt the west.
However, in all honesty, the biggest obstructionists to growing more criters on our federal lands, is the Federal Government and the employees that manage them!!!! I can cite you 100 examples!
There is more non-rsident tags in Utah than there were ten years ago. OUr goal is to have alot more tags for residents and non-residents in 2010 than there is today. We have a track record of getting it done.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
Don
In most of your examples you mention that if we don't have this convention and unite, we will have a bunch of wolves eating all our elk. With rumors of a near future wolf release in the 4 corners area, how will this help and what is SFW doing to keep wolves out of Utah and how can I help?
I am all for more animals and many more permits but I feel that this convention is depriving the general public of it's permits. You say this levels the playing field and everyone has an equal chance but you couldn't be further from the truth. What this does is open up another 5% of the publics tags for your rich buddies to dump money at virtually putting us "poor folks" out of the odds of drawing. I know it takes money to grow wildlife but I am sick and tired of watching you guy's take public permits and sell them to the good ole boy's who get to hunt the LE hunts every year without waiting periods. The excuse is always in the name of conservation. I know it is a necessary evil but where does it stop? How big of a percentage are you going to raise it to next time?
It is time all hunters unite and work towards conservation. This absolutly is our future, this continued pillaging of the publics tags is not the way to do it however. SFW has done and will continue to do great things in the state of Utah. That does not mean we should all close our eyes to the obvious and support the good ole boys every time they want more tags though.
Just something to think about. This is coming from somebody who belongs to several conservation groups and I donate when and what I can. I do not belong to SFW and wont until they start to serve the common man. The 90 percent you keep refering to would probably join if they felt like their interests were being met. It is tough to hear that our mentality must change. That we must start thinking that only one of us should get a tag at a time and the rest of us can go along and enjoy when the big shots are hunting elk in LE Utah units every year with no waiting periods.
I know this is a no win discussion but I cant sit here and say nothing while you tell us how great this is. I think these are all fair questions and I have yet to see you address them!
Merry Christmas to you ALL! I hope you are all blessed with health and happiness over the Holidays!
Chad
In most of your examples you mention that if we don't have this convention and unite, we will have a bunch of wolves eating all our elk. With rumors of a near future wolf release in the 4 corners area, how will this help and what is SFW doing to keep wolves out of Utah and how can I help?
I am all for more animals and many more permits but I feel that this convention is depriving the general public of it's permits. You say this levels the playing field and everyone has an equal chance but you couldn't be further from the truth. What this does is open up another 5% of the publics tags for your rich buddies to dump money at virtually putting us "poor folks" out of the odds of drawing. I know it takes money to grow wildlife but I am sick and tired of watching you guy's take public permits and sell them to the good ole boy's who get to hunt the LE hunts every year without waiting periods. The excuse is always in the name of conservation. I know it is a necessary evil but where does it stop? How big of a percentage are you going to raise it to next time?
It is time all hunters unite and work towards conservation. This absolutly is our future, this continued pillaging of the publics tags is not the way to do it however. SFW has done and will continue to do great things in the state of Utah. That does not mean we should all close our eyes to the obvious and support the good ole boys every time they want more tags though.
Just something to think about. This is coming from somebody who belongs to several conservation groups and I donate when and what I can. I do not belong to SFW and wont until they start to serve the common man. The 90 percent you keep refering to would probably join if they felt like their interests were being met. It is tough to hear that our mentality must change. That we must start thinking that only one of us should get a tag at a time and the rest of us can go along and enjoy when the big shots are hunting elk in LE Utah units every year with no waiting periods.
I know this is a no win discussion but I cant sit here and say nothing while you tell us how great this is. I think these are all fair questions and I have yet to see you address them!
Merry Christmas to you ALL! I hope you are all blessed with health and happiness over the Holidays!
Chad
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,438
Merry Christmas everyone.
The best of life in 2005
The best of life in 2005
D
dkpeay
Guest
Chad,
lets go to lunch. 801-635-5576.
Do you understand that at this national convention, you may only apply once - for each unit. That means for the 5 or 6 Wasatch elk tags, you, me, Billionare joe, resident, non-resident, we each can put our $5 in, once. We all have equal odds. There is not a more fair system in Western States drawing. We don't have to buy a $100 plus license to apply like WE all do in Nevada, Idaho, or Arizona. You don't have to put up $3,000 cash to apply for sheep like WE do in New Mexico, etc, etc. We don't have to be a member of any group. The only difference is you have to come and apply in person. Rent a bus and bring lots of hunters in it, ride a horse, carpool, whatever, just get there.
What kind of media attention to our issues - habitat, wolves, etc might it bring if 50,000 hunters unite in one place, and some very high profile celebrities are there?
On the Wolf Issue, and if Montana results spread everywhere which they will, It means this is the most important issue facing western states big game hunters - all of us, rich, poor, resident, non-residents.
What are you and all the other 90% of the hunters, who are not invovled in sportsmen groups doing about it?
I was in the Whitehouse last week with President Bush. I and other members of the SFW team have had meetings with many senior officials and US Senators and Congressman. Nate Helm, the SFW Executive Director used to Work for US Senator Larry Craig, a very influential US Senator from Idaho. I had an hour breakfast meeting with a very senior and powerful US Senator Orrin Hatch last week. We are talking about two things: Wolves and Grizzlies being delisted and making millions of acres of Federal Land more productive through active management and reseeding and restoration. There are some plans in the works. Like us or not, SFW gets things done. The task before us is huge. The real question is how are not 100% of the hunters, who will loose 100% of their opportunity behind us if these issues are not addressed, and accomplished?
At lunch, I will tell you some specific details of what We hope happens and when.
Don
lets go to lunch. 801-635-5576.
Do you understand that at this national convention, you may only apply once - for each unit. That means for the 5 or 6 Wasatch elk tags, you, me, Billionare joe, resident, non-resident, we each can put our $5 in, once. We all have equal odds. There is not a more fair system in Western States drawing. We don't have to buy a $100 plus license to apply like WE all do in Nevada, Idaho, or Arizona. You don't have to put up $3,000 cash to apply for sheep like WE do in New Mexico, etc, etc. We don't have to be a member of any group. The only difference is you have to come and apply in person. Rent a bus and bring lots of hunters in it, ride a horse, carpool, whatever, just get there.
What kind of media attention to our issues - habitat, wolves, etc might it bring if 50,000 hunters unite in one place, and some very high profile celebrities are there?
On the Wolf Issue, and if Montana results spread everywhere which they will, It means this is the most important issue facing western states big game hunters - all of us, rich, poor, resident, non-residents.
What are you and all the other 90% of the hunters, who are not invovled in sportsmen groups doing about it?
I was in the Whitehouse last week with President Bush. I and other members of the SFW team have had meetings with many senior officials and US Senators and Congressman. Nate Helm, the SFW Executive Director used to Work for US Senator Larry Craig, a very influential US Senator from Idaho. I had an hour breakfast meeting with a very senior and powerful US Senator Orrin Hatch last week. We are talking about two things: Wolves and Grizzlies being delisted and making millions of acres of Federal Land more productive through active management and reseeding and restoration. There are some plans in the works. Like us or not, SFW gets things done. The task before us is huge. The real question is how are not 100% of the hunters, who will loose 100% of their opportunity behind us if these issues are not addressed, and accomplished?
At lunch, I will tell you some specific details of what We hope happens and when.
Don
JHas
Active Member
- Messages
- 110
"What are you and all the other 90% of the hunters,who are not invovled in sportsmen groups doing about it?"
How about paying the bulk of the wildlife bills. How about turning in poachers when we see them. How about keeping the tradition alive. How about fighting anti-hunters with our votes and on and on and on. Face it, you couldn't run your organization without the other 90%. Yet you and your organization disrespect the "Other" 90% on a daily basis because we have made a choice not to participate in your (and other) organization for many reasons.
It would also seem from the direction of this thread that they (Other 90%) are opposing you. Is this even a problem to you?
You have done a lot of good no doubt, but you still have yet to accomplish the grandaddy of them all - UNITING HUNTERS. Obviously taking these permits from residents and non-residents for your convention is not going to do that.
John
How about paying the bulk of the wildlife bills. How about turning in poachers when we see them. How about keeping the tradition alive. How about fighting anti-hunters with our votes and on and on and on. Face it, you couldn't run your organization without the other 90%. Yet you and your organization disrespect the "Other" 90% on a daily basis because we have made a choice not to participate in your (and other) organization for many reasons.
It would also seem from the direction of this thread that they (Other 90%) are opposing you. Is this even a problem to you?
You have done a lot of good no doubt, but you still have yet to accomplish the grandaddy of them all - UNITING HUNTERS. Obviously taking these permits from residents and non-residents for your convention is not going to do that.
John
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
Don,
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I was NOT aware that you could only apply once for each tag. That sounds a lot better to me. That makes it much better for all. As for the wolves issue I want to be involved, Most hunters don't want them here decimating our herds. We are all passionate about hunting as you can tell. Most of us (residents)will also be at the convention to try and get these permits whether we agree with them or not. Aside from joining all the organizations how can we as individuals help with the battle over wolves and grizzlies? I appreciate your time coming on here to answer our questions. I still don't like the taking of public permits but we can discuss that when I give you a call. Have a Merry Christmas and travel safe all of you!
Chad
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I was NOT aware that you could only apply once for each tag. That sounds a lot better to me. That makes it much better for all. As for the wolves issue I want to be involved, Most hunters don't want them here decimating our herds. We are all passionate about hunting as you can tell. Most of us (residents)will also be at the convention to try and get these permits whether we agree with them or not. Aside from joining all the organizations how can we as individuals help with the battle over wolves and grizzlies? I appreciate your time coming on here to answer our questions. I still don't like the taking of public permits but we can discuss that when I give you a call. Have a Merry Christmas and travel safe all of you!
Chad
I was in sportsmens wharehouse yesterday. Saw alot of SFW hats and jackets.Started a conservation about the convention.One guy asked when the banquets for 05 would start,he wanted to donate some log furniture.There soon was quite a gathering even the non-members (sfw) got excited about the convention,and all the oppertunity to draw tags, for $5 a chance. The more we talked about it the more people stopped to listen.All questions and comments were positive!people are getting excited and can't wait.
None of them knew about the wolf thing on the north Yellowstone.OR had made comment's opposing wolves coming to Ut.
Had 4 guy's ask how to join SFW.
John the 90% your talking about fund DWR,wages,trucks,equipment,very little is left over to do habitat.Thats why things are so bad in this state when it comes to habatat. The 10% of the guys going to fundraisers are raising more than the 90% who simply buy a tag.I would not force anyone to join a group.Just think about the consequences if NOBODY does anything.If someone else wants to go to work for me next week and all I have to do is let them use my tools,truck,phone.But I'm the one getting paid I'd take them up on the offer.My point is if someone wants to help you out why stand in the way?
Who here went to a wolf public meeting in ut?(besides cattlemen all the people at the southeast meeting were SFW members)
who goes to 50% of their RAC's?
who went to 3 wildlife board meetings?
Why is it when we let the 90% know what we've done or what we're trying to do, we're nouthing but a bunch of rich arragant trophy hunters.
None of them knew about the wolf thing on the north Yellowstone.OR had made comment's opposing wolves coming to Ut.
Had 4 guy's ask how to join SFW.
John the 90% your talking about fund DWR,wages,trucks,equipment,very little is left over to do habitat.Thats why things are so bad in this state when it comes to habatat. The 10% of the guys going to fundraisers are raising more than the 90% who simply buy a tag.I would not force anyone to join a group.Just think about the consequences if NOBODY does anything.If someone else wants to go to work for me next week and all I have to do is let them use my tools,truck,phone.But I'm the one getting paid I'd take them up on the offer.My point is if someone wants to help you out why stand in the way?
Who here went to a wolf public meeting in ut?(besides cattlemen all the people at the southeast meeting were SFW members)
who goes to 50% of their RAC's?
who went to 3 wildlife board meetings?
Why is it when we let the 90% know what we've done or what we're trying to do, we're nouthing but a bunch of rich arragant trophy hunters.
G
GrandpaNasty
Guest
I really don't have a vested interest in this like some do but after reading over this whole thread twice its easy to see the DonP guy is just another politician. schmalts seems to have some legitimate questions and Don hasn't answered one of them. He skirts around them by answering his other buddy's questions and is completely ignoring give direct answers to those apposed to him. Don I don't know you, and I'm all the happier for it. You are an ass.
C
Colville
Guest
"What kind of media attention to our issues - habitat, wolves, etc might it bring if 50,000 hunters unite in one place, and some very high profile celebrities are there?" DKP
If Elk from a large drainage are forced through one small gap in elk fence to access their winter range, would one say the elk are "uniting"?
Are hunters uniting when they are forced like said elk into a choke point to access their resource? When did unity get defined as many people jumping through a hoop whether they like it or not because that's the only game in town? Unity?
Is it bizarre to anyone to think that hunters who will have to appear at one location at one time, despite work, distance, logistics, family care etc to apply for what they already owned before and could do from their homes is then discribed as "uniting"?
That's the language of pimps. It's about these groups being able to say they represent and have the constituancy of all those who attend this conference. WOW, is it that easy? Force people to attend your show in order to obtain what is already rightfully there's WITHOUT RESTRICTION and then when they show up to get back to where they should be without the convention, you'll claim them as constituents, brilliant, if predictable.
There's good work being done by these groups. But when you TAKE, STEAL, a public resource and restrict it's distribution in order to FORCE attendance at a convention which you then use as a lobby tactic.... you've lost legitimacy. Unity? Support? Give the tags back, hold the convention, the attendees then represent your constituents and your unity. If you have to stand on the heads of hunters who can't get to the convention and thereby have RESTRICTED access to the resource they OWN you can't then crow about your righteousness and the strength of your movement.
No, any means to an end isn't justified. This will look good on paper but divide hunters. But what do you care, you'll have your money and photo op and isn't that what's at the end of this rainbow anyhow.
If Elk from a large drainage are forced through one small gap in elk fence to access their winter range, would one say the elk are "uniting"?
Are hunters uniting when they are forced like said elk into a choke point to access their resource? When did unity get defined as many people jumping through a hoop whether they like it or not because that's the only game in town? Unity?
Is it bizarre to anyone to think that hunters who will have to appear at one location at one time, despite work, distance, logistics, family care etc to apply for what they already owned before and could do from their homes is then discribed as "uniting"?
That's the language of pimps. It's about these groups being able to say they represent and have the constituancy of all those who attend this conference. WOW, is it that easy? Force people to attend your show in order to obtain what is already rightfully there's WITHOUT RESTRICTION and then when they show up to get back to where they should be without the convention, you'll claim them as constituents, brilliant, if predictable.
There's good work being done by these groups. But when you TAKE, STEAL, a public resource and restrict it's distribution in order to FORCE attendance at a convention which you then use as a lobby tactic.... you've lost legitimacy. Unity? Support? Give the tags back, hold the convention, the attendees then represent your constituents and your unity. If you have to stand on the heads of hunters who can't get to the convention and thereby have RESTRICTED access to the resource they OWN you can't then crow about your righteousness and the strength of your movement.
No, any means to an end isn't justified. This will look good on paper but divide hunters. But what do you care, you'll have your money and photo op and isn't that what's at the end of this rainbow anyhow.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-04 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]>Scmaltz,
>
>In the spirit of a cease
>fire over Christmas, IF Milwakee
>and Wisconsin grew all these
>criters, and Wisconsin hunters fought
>as hard as Utah hunters
>had to grow ours, and
>you had a convention in
>Milwakee and offered us some
>more of your tags to
>grow more critters, I would
>be there!!
>
>The reason the convention is in
>SLC, is because these are
>Utah tags, and it is
>Utah people that have fought
>to grow them.
>
>I personally respect all hunters and
>the Federal ownership of land.
> I like to hunt
>other states occasionally as well
>on public land. Therefore,
>a lot of us work
>hard to grow more critters,
>and we enjoy all hunters
>who come out and hunt
>the west.
>
>However, in all honesty, the biggest
>obstructionists to growing more criters
>on our federal lands, is
>the Federal Government and the
>employees that manage them!!!!
>I can cite you 100
>examples!
>
>There is more non-rsident tags in
>Utah than there were ten
>years ago. OUr goal
>is to have alot more
>tags for residents and non-residents
>in 2010 than there is
>today. We have a
>track record of getting it
>done.
Don, in the spirit of Xmas throw me a bone and answer a few questions you have been skating around (I am not the only one to notice)
1, lets see the tag increase number data for the nonres tags as well. Like you posted recently, and please remove the ones you are taking from the nonres pool to make it accurate. with your recent addition to your convention i bet the nonres tags actually FALL in the last 2 years!!!
2, will a nonres be able to fill out a power of attorney and have someone apply for them?
3, Quote "The reason the convention is in SLC, is because these are Utah tags, and it is Utah people that have fought to grow them" unquote. Now come on Don, doesnt that sound stupid? These are UT tags??? but you pulled half of them from the Nonres pool?? Since the nonres only get roughly 10% of the tag allotment didnt you think it better to only take 1 of every 10 tags from the nonres pool when you took that extra 5%? I though that roughly 10% of the nonres tags were kind of the nonres's tags since some of us have helped fund a lot of the wildlife as well when we do buy something including a tag. I know they are really property of UT but when you pull them from the nonres pool in a unproportionat amount that stinks. Thats not the way to gain "national support" for SFW now is it. You are smart but it seems like you really miss some big issuies when you do things. Like taking a huge cut of the nonres pool to sell off to a mostly resident audience at your convention.
I see you said if there was a convention in wisconsin to give out wisconsin limited tags you would be there, well i bet you would since you probably fall into the catagory of hunters i despise. The kind who want to buy thier way into hunting over the common man. I dont think there is anyone else here that will say they have enough cash to waste flying across country, buy a motel for a few nights, rental car, ect.
One more thing, do you think i am completely crazy or can you be honest and see why i am telling you that you will not get the average guys money for this convention without us hating you for what you are doing. You have good ideas, but do not plan them well. Be careful what you wish for it may backfire. As far as uniteing sportsman, you are doing the opposite as far as a national view goes. You may have a lot of guys come to this but i tell you what, they will not be happy about it but once again they do not want to stand on the sidelines watching the rich guys hunt on TV.
Merry Xmas
If you want to talk in person, PM me and i will give you my phone # but i see you only ask guys to call you when you know them by first name...
Maybe i bring up things you didnt think about when you made up your master plan, and you wont admit it was a mistake but Christ man, wake up. You will make UT happy but not the rest of the middle class USA hunters. I hope you start to see my point.
Schmalts
>
>In the spirit of a cease
>fire over Christmas, IF Milwakee
>and Wisconsin grew all these
>criters, and Wisconsin hunters fought
>as hard as Utah hunters
>had to grow ours, and
>you had a convention in
>Milwakee and offered us some
>more of your tags to
>grow more critters, I would
>be there!!
>
>The reason the convention is in
>SLC, is because these are
>Utah tags, and it is
>Utah people that have fought
>to grow them.
>
>I personally respect all hunters and
>the Federal ownership of land.
> I like to hunt
>other states occasionally as well
>on public land. Therefore,
>a lot of us work
>hard to grow more critters,
>and we enjoy all hunters
>who come out and hunt
>the west.
>
>However, in all honesty, the biggest
>obstructionists to growing more criters
>on our federal lands, is
>the Federal Government and the
>employees that manage them!!!!
>I can cite you 100
>examples!
>
>There is more non-rsident tags in
>Utah than there were ten
>years ago. OUr goal
>is to have alot more
>tags for residents and non-residents
>in 2010 than there is
>today. We have a
>track record of getting it
>done.
Don, in the spirit of Xmas throw me a bone and answer a few questions you have been skating around (I am not the only one to notice)
1, lets see the tag increase number data for the nonres tags as well. Like you posted recently, and please remove the ones you are taking from the nonres pool to make it accurate. with your recent addition to your convention i bet the nonres tags actually FALL in the last 2 years!!!
2, will a nonres be able to fill out a power of attorney and have someone apply for them?
3, Quote "The reason the convention is in SLC, is because these are Utah tags, and it is Utah people that have fought to grow them" unquote. Now come on Don, doesnt that sound stupid? These are UT tags??? but you pulled half of them from the Nonres pool?? Since the nonres only get roughly 10% of the tag allotment didnt you think it better to only take 1 of every 10 tags from the nonres pool when you took that extra 5%? I though that roughly 10% of the nonres tags were kind of the nonres's tags since some of us have helped fund a lot of the wildlife as well when we do buy something including a tag. I know they are really property of UT but when you pull them from the nonres pool in a unproportionat amount that stinks. Thats not the way to gain "national support" for SFW now is it. You are smart but it seems like you really miss some big issuies when you do things. Like taking a huge cut of the nonres pool to sell off to a mostly resident audience at your convention.
I see you said if there was a convention in wisconsin to give out wisconsin limited tags you would be there, well i bet you would since you probably fall into the catagory of hunters i despise. The kind who want to buy thier way into hunting over the common man. I dont think there is anyone else here that will say they have enough cash to waste flying across country, buy a motel for a few nights, rental car, ect.
One more thing, do you think i am completely crazy or can you be honest and see why i am telling you that you will not get the average guys money for this convention without us hating you for what you are doing. You have good ideas, but do not plan them well. Be careful what you wish for it may backfire. As far as uniteing sportsman, you are doing the opposite as far as a national view goes. You may have a lot of guys come to this but i tell you what, they will not be happy about it but once again they do not want to stand on the sidelines watching the rich guys hunt on TV.
Merry Xmas
If you want to talk in person, PM me and i will give you my phone # but i see you only ask guys to call you when you know them by first name...
Maybe i bring up things you didnt think about when you made up your master plan, and you wont admit it was a mistake but Christ man, wake up. You will make UT happy but not the rest of the middle class USA hunters. I hope you start to see my point.
Schmalts
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-04 AT 02:46PM (MST)[p]>Chad,
>
>lets go to lunch. 801-635-5576.
>
>
>>
>Don
Don, srew that lunch, why not address his questions here for all of us to hear it from you ourselves. Hell, thats all we want is an honest answer. Chads post was honest and very precise. I however get hot headed because i am way too pissed off at this. please, please, pretty please read his post again and tell all of us straight answers to his questions. then, maybe then we will start to support you and the "good ol boys"
And take a good hard look at colevilles post as well. take the holiday to reflect a little on what these guys are saying. You are barking up the wrong tree. if you really think you will gain national support you are only listening to feedback from the rich "good ol boys" time to wake up dude.
>
>lets go to lunch. 801-635-5576.
>
>
>>
>Don
Don, srew that lunch, why not address his questions here for all of us to hear it from you ourselves. Hell, thats all we want is an honest answer. Chads post was honest and very precise. I however get hot headed because i am way too pissed off at this. please, please, pretty please read his post again and tell all of us straight answers to his questions. then, maybe then we will start to support you and the "good ol boys"
And take a good hard look at colevilles post as well. take the holiday to reflect a little on what these guys are saying. You are barking up the wrong tree. if you really think you will gain national support you are only listening to feedback from the rich "good ol boys" time to wake up dude.
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-04
>AT 02:29?PM (MST)
>
>>.Don
>>
>>In the spirit of a cease
>>fire over Christmas, .
> Don, in the spirit
>of Xmas throw me a
>bone .
>.
>
> .> One more thing, .
.. i am completely
>crazy .
>..Don You
>have good ideas, .
>.
>
> . Christ man, wake up.
>.
>
> Dear Schmalts
IN the spirit of CHRISTmas please don't use the lord's name in vain.
338
>AT 02:29?PM (MST)
>
>>.Don
>>
>>In the spirit of a cease
>>fire over Christmas, .
> Don, in the spirit
>of Xmas throw me a
>bone .
>.
>
> .> One more thing, .
.. i am completely
>crazy .
>..Don You
>have good ideas, .
>.
>
> . Christ man, wake up.
>.
>
> Dear Schmalts
IN the spirit of CHRISTmas please don't use the lord's name in vain.
338
wileywapati
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,808
Hey Chad how was lunch ?????
In the wake of the AZ lawsuit, I am sure UT is afraid of the same thing, go and take 25% of the nonresident tags, while hitting the resident pool by only 2.6%? Hitting the nonresident percentage almost ten times as bad? Are you begging to piss off nonresidents enough to sue Utah too? The idea may be good, but make it fair and take 5% across the board.
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
No lunch taken here! I just want to talk about my honest questions that no one will EVER answer. Have a good one man!
Chad
Chad
H
huntnet
Guest
After reading this thread, I would like to put in my two cents worth.
Do I support all that SFW dose? NO
Do I agree with all the things Don has proposed and helped pass? No
I don't think any group or organization you belong to will make 100% of the members happy 100% of the time. You want your voice or opinion heard? Get involved in one or more groups that support most of what you would like to see accomplished. Do your research and find out where the money goes and what that group is accomplishing. Then put your time and effort into supporting the groups you want to get involved in.
It is good to stand up for what you believe in but get the facts on the subject, do your own research then make a logical argument. Name calling and degrading other hunters is not what this form is for. The person that put this site together did not have the intention to have contention between hunters. This form has been placed on this site for a meeting place for hunters to learn from each other and share stories of the hunt.
Some comments to hunters on this site that reside out side of Utah that don't like the system and have not drawn a tag. I work with non resident hunters every year and help them apply for tags in areas that will give them the best chance to draw in an area that produces the quality animal they are looking for. If you are applying for the wrong units you will have terrible odds of ever drawing a tag in that unit. In some units you will have a great chance at harvesting a 300-350 class bull and in some units have a better chance at getting a tag than a resident of the state. If you are applying for one of the top units with larger bulls it will take longer to draw and you may never draw a tag in one of these units. If it takes five or maybe ten years to draw a tag you will have an experience of a lifetime in most of the quality units. In my opinion Utah gives hunters a better chance to harvest a quality elk and deer than almost any other state.
It took me 10 points to finally draw a quality elk tag in my home state. Was it worth the wait? YES. Did I take as big of bull as I wanted? NO Did I have opportunities at bulls in the 370 class? YES Did I pass up shots at 380+ bulls because of the shot distance or condition of shot? YES One bull I passed up was taken the next day at 650+ yards, this was a 390 bull. Do I regret not taking the shot? NO This hunter was darn lucky to find the bull the next day and don't think the meat was any good. (I had more respect for the animals than to take a long shot and risk wounding the animal).
Here is my point, Utah is producing some great animals I hope all of you can have the opportunity of a quality hunt as I have in what ever state you wish. I consider it my once in a lifetime elk hunt since I may never draw a quality tag for elk again in my home state. Keep putting in and one day your name may be drawn. Put in for as many quality areas in as many states as you can afford, more chances to draw a quality tag.If you don't like one state apply to others. If you just want to hunt and don't care about quality, buy a tag and come hunt! Still allot of opportunities outside the draw process. Or come and hunt until you draw a quality tag. Hunt spike elk in the area you apply for, when you draw you will have learned the area you have a quality hunt for.
Many don't care for some of the people in some of the organizations. Some don't like the celebrities that have joined us in the fight to protect our hunting rights. SO WHAT? Has the hunting in Utah gained better quality for some of the effort from these groups? YES Has more money been raised by their efforts? YES Is their better opportunity for kids to have a quality hunt now than when I was a kid? YES My 11 year old son spent every day with me on my elk hunt. He saw more bulls on that hunt and bigger bulls than I had seen in most of my hunting years. How many 11 year olds kids get the chance to spend two weeks in great elk country during the rut? How many have watched two 370+ class bulls lock antlers and knock each other around for 20 minutes? How many have seen 20+ bulls in one day over 360? How many have been next to their dad when multiple bulls over 350 class have been called into close bow range during a rifle hunt? How many was next to dad when dad called in a bull to 20 yards and then harvested a great 8 year old bull?
My first bull was harvested on a hunt with my dad, thought it was the biggest bull in Utah at the time. Later found out that they do come bigger than a rag horn 6x6, three year old bull.
I have hunted 28 years. In my first 18 years of hunting I never experienced what my son did during 2003 season.
Whom ever increased herds and improved opportunity did a great job. Did they make mistakes? YES They are only human. Was it the armchair quarterbacks or the couch potatoes that made the difference? Was it the people that just want to complain? Probably not! Get involved in whatever group you wish but don't bash the others that our helping sportsman.
If you want to bash someone, bash the tree huggers, PETA or similar groups. The wolf problem is real bad in some of the western states and we hunters must band together to take care of the issue. These predators have hit some parts of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming hard. Yellowstone has lost allot of their elk herd, where will the wolf packs go when there is no food to eat? They have already been moving into neighboring states to find food. Hunters must band together to solve these issues and others.
It's not hunters against Don. He is on our side! If you don't like what he is doing, get involved and make logical suggestions to get your issues past. Have I liked everything that Don has done? NO (I still get upset about not keeping the elk ranching business out of Utah and a few others). Look at what has been accomplished and the amount of money that has been raised in Utah for the wildlife. Do some research and find out how much of the money brought into an organization you support is spent in you're own state. It may suprise you. Then check out SFW if it's in your state and find out how much money stays in your state to help fund wildlife projects.
What is this about Karl or other well-known people? So what if they support a group they believe in. If they are on our side and helping get doors open to benefit hunters, what's the problem? I would rather have their support than have them supporting the tree hugging crowd!! Karl has done a lot of good here in Utah and is still helping groups in Utah. Don?t believe the Karl you see in the media is who he really is.
So what if Don went to the White House, don't we want someone with access to the people in power rather than the people that don't have the ability to get things done?
Look in your spear of influence and see how many could help fund some of the projects that are getting funded. Fact is most live pay check to pay check and in debt up to our eyeballs. Most of our spear of influence is in the same boat, and it is sinking. Fact is that if you want to get things done you must be politically connected to some influential people to get things done. Don has got the connections to get this accomplished at this time. If looking in your spear of influence you find someone that has the influence to help the effort, introduce them to Don and help build the momentum to get things done.
Sorry for rambling on, just wanted to voice my opinion.
Craig
Do I support all that SFW dose? NO
Do I agree with all the things Don has proposed and helped pass? No
I don't think any group or organization you belong to will make 100% of the members happy 100% of the time. You want your voice or opinion heard? Get involved in one or more groups that support most of what you would like to see accomplished. Do your research and find out where the money goes and what that group is accomplishing. Then put your time and effort into supporting the groups you want to get involved in.
It is good to stand up for what you believe in but get the facts on the subject, do your own research then make a logical argument. Name calling and degrading other hunters is not what this form is for. The person that put this site together did not have the intention to have contention between hunters. This form has been placed on this site for a meeting place for hunters to learn from each other and share stories of the hunt.
Some comments to hunters on this site that reside out side of Utah that don't like the system and have not drawn a tag. I work with non resident hunters every year and help them apply for tags in areas that will give them the best chance to draw in an area that produces the quality animal they are looking for. If you are applying for the wrong units you will have terrible odds of ever drawing a tag in that unit. In some units you will have a great chance at harvesting a 300-350 class bull and in some units have a better chance at getting a tag than a resident of the state. If you are applying for one of the top units with larger bulls it will take longer to draw and you may never draw a tag in one of these units. If it takes five or maybe ten years to draw a tag you will have an experience of a lifetime in most of the quality units. In my opinion Utah gives hunters a better chance to harvest a quality elk and deer than almost any other state.
It took me 10 points to finally draw a quality elk tag in my home state. Was it worth the wait? YES. Did I take as big of bull as I wanted? NO Did I have opportunities at bulls in the 370 class? YES Did I pass up shots at 380+ bulls because of the shot distance or condition of shot? YES One bull I passed up was taken the next day at 650+ yards, this was a 390 bull. Do I regret not taking the shot? NO This hunter was darn lucky to find the bull the next day and don't think the meat was any good. (I had more respect for the animals than to take a long shot and risk wounding the animal).
Here is my point, Utah is producing some great animals I hope all of you can have the opportunity of a quality hunt as I have in what ever state you wish. I consider it my once in a lifetime elk hunt since I may never draw a quality tag for elk again in my home state. Keep putting in and one day your name may be drawn. Put in for as many quality areas in as many states as you can afford, more chances to draw a quality tag.If you don't like one state apply to others. If you just want to hunt and don't care about quality, buy a tag and come hunt! Still allot of opportunities outside the draw process. Or come and hunt until you draw a quality tag. Hunt spike elk in the area you apply for, when you draw you will have learned the area you have a quality hunt for.
Many don't care for some of the people in some of the organizations. Some don't like the celebrities that have joined us in the fight to protect our hunting rights. SO WHAT? Has the hunting in Utah gained better quality for some of the effort from these groups? YES Has more money been raised by their efforts? YES Is their better opportunity for kids to have a quality hunt now than when I was a kid? YES My 11 year old son spent every day with me on my elk hunt. He saw more bulls on that hunt and bigger bulls than I had seen in most of my hunting years. How many 11 year olds kids get the chance to spend two weeks in great elk country during the rut? How many have watched two 370+ class bulls lock antlers and knock each other around for 20 minutes? How many have seen 20+ bulls in one day over 360? How many have been next to their dad when multiple bulls over 350 class have been called into close bow range during a rifle hunt? How many was next to dad when dad called in a bull to 20 yards and then harvested a great 8 year old bull?
My first bull was harvested on a hunt with my dad, thought it was the biggest bull in Utah at the time. Later found out that they do come bigger than a rag horn 6x6, three year old bull.
I have hunted 28 years. In my first 18 years of hunting I never experienced what my son did during 2003 season.
Whom ever increased herds and improved opportunity did a great job. Did they make mistakes? YES They are only human. Was it the armchair quarterbacks or the couch potatoes that made the difference? Was it the people that just want to complain? Probably not! Get involved in whatever group you wish but don't bash the others that our helping sportsman.
If you want to bash someone, bash the tree huggers, PETA or similar groups. The wolf problem is real bad in some of the western states and we hunters must band together to take care of the issue. These predators have hit some parts of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming hard. Yellowstone has lost allot of their elk herd, where will the wolf packs go when there is no food to eat? They have already been moving into neighboring states to find food. Hunters must band together to solve these issues and others.
It's not hunters against Don. He is on our side! If you don't like what he is doing, get involved and make logical suggestions to get your issues past. Have I liked everything that Don has done? NO (I still get upset about not keeping the elk ranching business out of Utah and a few others). Look at what has been accomplished and the amount of money that has been raised in Utah for the wildlife. Do some research and find out how much of the money brought into an organization you support is spent in you're own state. It may suprise you. Then check out SFW if it's in your state and find out how much money stays in your state to help fund wildlife projects.
What is this about Karl or other well-known people? So what if they support a group they believe in. If they are on our side and helping get doors open to benefit hunters, what's the problem? I would rather have their support than have them supporting the tree hugging crowd!! Karl has done a lot of good here in Utah and is still helping groups in Utah. Don?t believe the Karl you see in the media is who he really is.
So what if Don went to the White House, don't we want someone with access to the people in power rather than the people that don't have the ability to get things done?
Look in your spear of influence and see how many could help fund some of the projects that are getting funded. Fact is most live pay check to pay check and in debt up to our eyeballs. Most of our spear of influence is in the same boat, and it is sinking. Fact is that if you want to get things done you must be politically connected to some influential people to get things done. Don has got the connections to get this accomplished at this time. If looking in your spear of influence you find someone that has the influence to help the effort, introduce them to Don and help build the momentum to get things done.
Sorry for rambling on, just wanted to voice my opinion.
Craig
B
BOBCATBEST
Guest
Craig,
I must say that is one of the best arguements that I have heard.
Maybe I need to reconsider my opinion in regards to SFW. If you
aren't working for SFW, you ought to be.
-Bobcat
I must say that is one of the best arguements that I have heard.
Maybe I need to reconsider my opinion in regards to SFW. If you
aren't working for SFW, you ought to be.
-Bobcat
Silentstalker
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,135
Craig,
I appreciate your post! I also believe that if hunters would unite we would be a force to be recond with! We are all very passionate about our sport or "obsession" as my wife refers to it. It is this very passion that drives discussions like this. For the most part I feel like this has been a productive post. Several have made it personal but that does not reflect the feelings of all. Also, many of us are members of many conservation groups and donate our time and money to them. This discussion is not about wolves or conservation, it is about several groups taking PUBLIC tags. I think the ideas is great. The means by which they used to get the public's tags is not.
Chad
I appreciate your post! I also believe that if hunters would unite we would be a force to be recond with! We are all very passionate about our sport or "obsession" as my wife refers to it. It is this very passion that drives discussions like this. For the most part I feel like this has been a productive post. Several have made it personal but that does not reflect the feelings of all. Also, many of us are members of many conservation groups and donate our time and money to them. This discussion is not about wolves or conservation, it is about several groups taking PUBLIC tags. I think the ideas is great. The means by which they used to get the public's tags is not.
Chad
H
huntnet
Guest
No I don't work for SFW, they probably could not afford me! (hee hee hee)
As hunters I think we should all donate some time (and/or money) to some of the organizations we choose. They are after the same thing us hunters are after, saving some habitat for our kids.
I have done a lot of research on different western states and try and keep up on what quality of animals they have been taking. I also work with quality guides and outfitters in these states and keep track of what has been going on in their areas. In a lot of the areas the quality has been dropping and the success rates have lowered. There are some outfitters that I will not send hunters to any more. Not because they are bad outfitters or provide bad service just the opposite they are great outfitters and provide great service. The griz and wolf in the area has devastated the herds in their areas and you will not have a successful hunt or at least harvesting an animal. This is just one issue we have out west that must be addressed.
During this same time period Utah has increased quality of animals taken and increased tags for many species. WHY? Look at other states and see what they are doing compared to Utah. More money is being raised to help put animals on the mountain and improve the habitat. As well as predator control.
I don't represent any of the groups but I am a member of the ones I can and help donate time when possible. You meet a lot of good people at these gatherings and make new friends. At some I meet people I don't like and would not hunt with them and some I know too much about and don't care for them at all. That doesn't make the organization bad, just people I wont associate with.
We are stronger as a team and with one purpose than if we are cutting each other down.
Whatever group we find matches us the best, get involved. If you don't have money call and volunteer time to help with projects or be on a committee for some thing. When the RMEF comes to Salt lake volunteer for the white cap crew to help the venders in the show set up and tear down. Meet some great people doing this work. Just get involved and voice your opinion when the time comes. Who knows it might be one of our ideas that help sportsmen for years to come enjoy better quality than we did.
Chad,
I am doing some research to find out more on what will be the end result of the loss of tags. I have been away for a while and had not heard of this proposal till tonight. Will look at both sides before commenting further. Utah dose have great opportunities for non-residents to hunt and not sure of the end result of the proposal yet.
I read some of the posts that cut down some of the leaders of these groups, my point of the comments was to hopefully shed some light on the subject and hopefully open the eyes of a few, some will be permanently blinded and not seek knowledge. Others will hopefully find out more about some of these organizations and get involved.
I would like to draw a quality tag every year or two here in Utah but it is not going to happen. Do hunters want quality or quantity? I was also trying to point out that it is worth the wait in Utah to get a quality tag and to also point out to put in for other states.
There is opportunity in some of the states out west to hunt with out drawing a tag. I was inviting some of these hunters to come hunt while waiting for the quality tag to come along. Great way to scout the area you apply for. This also allows the hunters that have never been next to an elk find out how big they are and will better prepare them for the work ahead. (The work begins when ya pull the trigger)
If paying $5.00 a species will help fund some projects and help keep them from raising tag cost more, I am all for it. Like one post said consider it a $25.00 donation to habitat. Again have not studied the proposal to know what the impact on tag numbers will be so can't comment on that.
Happy New Year
Craig
As hunters I think we should all donate some time (and/or money) to some of the organizations we choose. They are after the same thing us hunters are after, saving some habitat for our kids.
I have done a lot of research on different western states and try and keep up on what quality of animals they have been taking. I also work with quality guides and outfitters in these states and keep track of what has been going on in their areas. In a lot of the areas the quality has been dropping and the success rates have lowered. There are some outfitters that I will not send hunters to any more. Not because they are bad outfitters or provide bad service just the opposite they are great outfitters and provide great service. The griz and wolf in the area has devastated the herds in their areas and you will not have a successful hunt or at least harvesting an animal. This is just one issue we have out west that must be addressed.
During this same time period Utah has increased quality of animals taken and increased tags for many species. WHY? Look at other states and see what they are doing compared to Utah. More money is being raised to help put animals on the mountain and improve the habitat. As well as predator control.
I don't represent any of the groups but I am a member of the ones I can and help donate time when possible. You meet a lot of good people at these gatherings and make new friends. At some I meet people I don't like and would not hunt with them and some I know too much about and don't care for them at all. That doesn't make the organization bad, just people I wont associate with.
We are stronger as a team and with one purpose than if we are cutting each other down.
Whatever group we find matches us the best, get involved. If you don't have money call and volunteer time to help with projects or be on a committee for some thing. When the RMEF comes to Salt lake volunteer for the white cap crew to help the venders in the show set up and tear down. Meet some great people doing this work. Just get involved and voice your opinion when the time comes. Who knows it might be one of our ideas that help sportsmen for years to come enjoy better quality than we did.
Chad,
I am doing some research to find out more on what will be the end result of the loss of tags. I have been away for a while and had not heard of this proposal till tonight. Will look at both sides before commenting further. Utah dose have great opportunities for non-residents to hunt and not sure of the end result of the proposal yet.
I read some of the posts that cut down some of the leaders of these groups, my point of the comments was to hopefully shed some light on the subject and hopefully open the eyes of a few, some will be permanently blinded and not seek knowledge. Others will hopefully find out more about some of these organizations and get involved.
I would like to draw a quality tag every year or two here in Utah but it is not going to happen. Do hunters want quality or quantity? I was also trying to point out that it is worth the wait in Utah to get a quality tag and to also point out to put in for other states.
There is opportunity in some of the states out west to hunt with out drawing a tag. I was inviting some of these hunters to come hunt while waiting for the quality tag to come along. Great way to scout the area you apply for. This also allows the hunters that have never been next to an elk find out how big they are and will better prepare them for the work ahead. (The work begins when ya pull the trigger)
If paying $5.00 a species will help fund some projects and help keep them from raising tag cost more, I am all for it. Like one post said consider it a $25.00 donation to habitat. Again have not studied the proposal to know what the impact on tag numbers will be so can't comment on that.
Happy New Year
Craig
tmax
Member
- Messages
- 15
For all who are pro or con on this subject, the Wildlife Board will be voting on the proposal January 4th. at the DWR office in Salt Lake City. The meeting starts at 9:00am. Voice your opinion there or email the board members with your concerns. Email addresses for the Wildlife Board members are posted on the DWR web site. Make your voice heard.
K
ktc
Guest
It seems funny, but us residents don't seem to know any more than one 1000's of miles away.
The word I got is a big announcement is going to be made in the name of conservation in about 3 weeks. Read into that whatever you want. My guess, and it is only a guess, it is a done deal.
The word I got is a big announcement is going to be made in the name of conservation in about 3 weeks. Read into that whatever you want. My guess, and it is only a guess, it is a done deal.
D
DonV
Guest
Don,
Why must you make it so you have to attend? I live in Ohio, if I take the time off to go apply for a tag and I draw I will have no time to go hunting since my vacation time is gone.
Plain and simple I cannot attend the meeting. Period.
How again is that fair?
I am all for raising money for wildlife etc.
How about adding a special donation to the app process and see how much the NR puts in, it will be more then the nothing I will put into the convention.
A bus ride from Maine? And yes there are guys from Maine who apply! Anyone know how long that will take and what it will cost? It is crazy to even suggest that!
Donald Vargo
Ohio
Why must you make it so you have to attend? I live in Ohio, if I take the time off to go apply for a tag and I draw I will have no time to go hunting since my vacation time is gone.
Plain and simple I cannot attend the meeting. Period.
How again is that fair?
I am all for raising money for wildlife etc.
How about adding a special donation to the app process and see how much the NR puts in, it will be more then the nothing I will put into the convention.
A bus ride from Maine? And yes there are guys from Maine who apply! Anyone know how long that will take and what it will cost? It is crazy to even suggest that!
Donald Vargo
Ohio
wileywapati
Very Active Member
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- 1,808
Passed the board 6-1
