Soda Springs Land Issue

[coyotebuster08]

I would like to get an opinion from someone that hunts, or has hunted this area.
Years ago I purchase a small hill top lot(20 acres) in Caribou Village Subdivision, a few miles south of Soda Springs. I have visited the property but have not spent any time there during hunting season.
I just received a notice from one of the other owners up there that hunters have been overunning the place during deer and elk season, tearing up the roads, blocking the roads, etc. Not being unpleasant, just hunting what they think is public land.
The purpose of the letter is to solicit money for signs, gates, and fences to keep the hunters out.
My question is, is this area that overun with hunters during the deer/elk seasons? if you have hunted there before, does it sound reasonable or a little over the top? Just trying to get a feel for the situation from someone who hunts there.
Thanks in advance.
Jim
CB08

 

[idhunters]

If your land is cultivated or irrigated it is considered posted regardless of signs.

If the land is range/forest or otherwise not cultivated it must be properly posted (sign or orange paint every 600 feet I think). So, if you want folks off the land you will be able to keep 90% off by putting up a no trespassing sign.

The other 10% won't get stopped by fences, gates, etc.

If you are not seeing any damage and not hunting it yourself, what is the problem with some folks hunting it?

 

[deerhuntr4885]

>If you are not seeing any
>damage and not hunting it
>yourself, what is the problem
>with some folks hunting it?
>

I agree with that! What happened to this country?


Mike Henne

 

[twsnow18]

unfortunate situation. i won't be surprised if coyotebuster doesn't respond to these comments as a lot of landowners these days are on quite the power trips. if no one is causing enough of a raucus on your land for you to even notice it's happening, and your not hunting it yourself, then what's the issue?!

 

[NickM]

The issue is or could be... That it's his land, he pays taxes on it and is in charge of any and all upkeep.


Non landowners just don't understand... Especially in a state that is over 60% public land.

 

[dreaminbouthuntin]

>unfortunate situation. i won't be surprised
>if coyotebuster doesn't respond to
>these comments as a lot
>of landowners these days are
>on quite the power trips.
>if no one is causing
>enough of a raucus on
>your land for you to
>even notice it's happening, and
>your not hunting it yourself,
>then what's the issue?!


The issue is it isnt your land so stay off of it. You want someone just helping themselves to your property without permission whenever they want?
I agree, people who dont own land are ignorant to the issues of trespassing.

 

[idhunters]

I am a landowner, my family owns land and I work with large landowners every day.

Please note my response included a description of the trespassing laws and how to post his land. I also noted that a sign would take care of most problems but not all. He also noted that this "issue" is being brought up by a neighbor and it seems the poster has not seen any problems or has any issues.

Don't assume ignorance of trespassing issues. The reality is the trespassing law in Idaho provides protection for landowners by not requiring posting of obviously private property, and also provides protection to hunters by requiring private landowner to post property that is NOT obviously private.

So, post it up if you want. Makes no difference to me if its posted. Maybe you should call the F&G and enroll it in Access Yes then you can get paid and monitor it better.

BTW I don't allow people to hunt our farm-I hunt it, my friends hunt it and there isn't enough game to hunt it any harder. But back when there were pheasants all over we let whoever asked have access.

 

[coyotebuster08]

Sorry, kind of gave up on this thread and didn't see the posts. I must not have made things clear enough, I am not looking to keep people off my land provided it is being respectfully used. In this case a neighbor is looking for support to close the entire private area off to the public. I was hoping that someone more familiar with the area than myself could tell me if this is a real issue there? Or just a neighbor with a bone to pick.
Thanks for the replies...
CB08

 

[Idahoron]

Here is my take on it. You could offer it to Access yes and if it is taken you would have some control of the situation. If you don't want to go that route you could go there and find out who is using it. Then make a deal with them. They post it and make sure stuff is taken care of. For that they get to use it and report to you. There are many ways to keep the peace with neighbors, and allow hunting, and maybe even make some money to pay taxes with. Just a thought. Ron

 

[GSJ]

Post it or expect people to hunt on it. Pretty simple really.





the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".

 

[BPKHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-12 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]Idhunters,

Good to have a landowners perspective.

I am not an owner of land, at least not large enough to hunt on, so first let me say I envy you.

My understanding of Idaho law is reflected mostly in your first post, stay off it if it is posted or cultivated. It is also my understanding that if the topography of the land is such that access is limited, then only those access areas need be posted. I don't measure the distance between signs or anything to see if they are off by 10 feet.

Now I do hunt a few pieces of private land that I know are private and I do not stay off of it just because I know it is private. The land is clearly not posted. I'm not trying to leverage off the fact the land isn't posted to the letter of the law. Matter of fact I am aware that the landowner, like our OP here, is aware that it get's hunted and it is my understanding he is ok with this as long as it is not abused. Pretty much foot traffic limited by the topography. To support this I have talked to someone with Fish and Game and they not only said they are aware of the same understanding of a particular property but reinforced to me that Private or not, if it isn't posted, in Idaho you can hunt it.

Now I do not wish to upset landowners, as I appreciate the opportunities I occasionally get, and have even had some luck knocking on doors, though not often in SW Idaho, but I am not aware of any part of the Tresspass law that says I can't go on Private Land, simply if I have knowledge that it is private, but is not posted. So do you think I am wrong? If so can you point me toward that language? I do not want a problem with the law.

PS Anytime a landowner would communicate that they do not want me on their unposted land, I would smile and say "have a good day" as I left their property. I am also sensitive to how damaging the bad apples can be to private land.

 

[idhunters]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-12 AT 08:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-12 AT 08:46?PM (MST)

Hi BPK

My understanding of the law is that if the land is cultivated or artificially irrigated, it is considered posted. If it is not, than it needs to be posted according to the law. So if you know of a piece of land that is private, not cultivated, not irrigated, and not posted then you cannot be prosecuted for trespassing. You must leave the property if asked by a landowner or agent but you can't be charged.

So we agree. I hope I didn't imply something otherwise from my posts. I am not an expert on the exact law.

I have also hunted unposted private land (not cultivated, etc), and would do so again. I have neighbors with a large ranch, it is not posted because they don't care if you hunt it as long as it isn't abused.

You did say "private or not, if it isn't posted you can hunt it". That is true to the extent that it isn't cultivated or irrigated. Otherwise I agree with the statement.

 

[BPKHunter]

My question was regarding my reading of this part of you post:

"Don't assume ignorance of trespassing issues. The reality is the trespassing law in Idaho provides protection for landowners by not requiring posting of obviously private property, and also provides protection to hunters by requiring private landowner to post property that is NOT obviously private."

I simply read more into your reference to "obviously private", you obviously meant "cultivated, irrigated, etc".

So we agree....

I do feel for large landowners because, while I don't own private land, our neighborhood borders BLM, but you must cross our private neighborhood to get there and it is amazing what people think they are entitled to and if they think you are trying to keep them from what they deserve they simply get destructive then claim ignorance when caught. AMAZING.

 

[twsnow18]

well the real issue is that it is not posted fine sir. if someone is not going to take the precautionary measures to protect their land from being trespassed, then why would they expect others to obey the law that is in writing SOMEWHERE, that same SOMEWHERE that their posted signs are... or arent, I suppose.

oh and by the way, I never ever trespass and am in very good standing with the couple landowners that graciously allow me to hunt on their property. yet, even they i have noticed, power trip if their elderly mom forgets to lock the gate or the neighbor's dog is on their side of the fence. I, from a neutral point of view of my own friends that are landowners, think that even they go overboard sometimes and let the feeling of power control their actions versus the simple fact that they pay their taxes on the land so people need to respect it. i'm sure that while the last time i stepped 8.5 inches onto the neighboring property in star to retrieve a downed goose and got laid into like i was at boot camp, the adjacent landowner's last concern was who pays the taxes on the land

 

[GSJ]

Finding ways around, through, or over private land is as much a part of hunting as cleaning your rifle/shotgun at the end of the day. I've had more run-ins with azzholes and seen to much public land illegally posted that I can't be bothered with any landowners whos feelings get hurt. Post it to the letter of the law or it's gonna get hunted.





the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".

 

[coyotebuster08]

This post started out with me not wanting to post my land, I was planning to continue to allow open access despite a neighbor wanting all the owners to band together and close the area to the public.
What I had hoped for was for someone that had hunted the area before to tell me if this was a madhouse of hunters that the neighbor described? (He is from SLC and claimed that he has seen the hunters do the same there) Or, is it more like areas elsewhere with hunters parking at available spaces along a dirt road to access un-posted country closer to home.
The land posting information was helpful but I am still hoping it won't come to that. I hunt as a nonresident in many places and rarely do more "No Trespassing" signs add to the quality of the hunt.
Thanks for the replies.
Jim
CB08

 

[twsnow18]

+1 GSJ

and coyotebuster, welp, that's an online hunting forum for yah

 

[gb22]

Good answer, Lance. (James (little help from dad) got a 10 lb at AF last Friday.)


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[dreaminbouthuntin]

Ever occur to anyone that if you own a couple thousand acres that boarders public land, many of the signs land owners put up are tore down, fences cut, cattel shot, ect? Its a ton of work to post that much land all the time. Instead of being azzes about it, ie: 'well, if you dont post it I'll do what i want' attitude, try grabbing a map and seeing where the private land is and stay off it. Many of you ripping about owners not posting are missing the point. DO YOUR HOMEWORK as well.
Many wonder why land owners dont want people hunting their land? The reasons you guys stated on why you tresspass, IS the reason they dont want you there. Several on here think its there god given right to go and do whatever wherever you want, but guess what, it isnt.
Perhaps if some of you started respecting land owners decisions about not allowing hunting, maybe they wouldnt be so harsh.. just a thought. Till then, expect to be run off, cited, and yelled at when you tresspass. Show them some respect.
Yes, i own land, yes i post it, and yes, people tear my signs down, cut my fences, hunt without permission, and its cultivated. I hate deer season. No, i dont hunt my own land.

 

[GSJ]

Oh I've done my homework. Thats how I know where, when, and how I can legally be. 99.9% of the time, any private land owner will never know I was there. And if it's clearly posted, cultivated, etc, I won't ever be there. Nine out of ten times it's not even their property I'm interested in, but what lies beyond that they want to keep me out of......Times have changed and playing nice on this subject is no longer an option. "Ask First" is a joke and I'll do the research neccessary to find out if I need to ask at all. Cuz I'd just as soon have zero interaction with the LO's.

Slobs that destroy others property and tear down signs etc should be dealt with. If caught they should get too see the inside of a jail cell. So should LO's who illegally post public ,etc.







the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".

 

[twsnow18]

Couldn't agree more GSJ

 

[Rizzy]

I don't hunt that area but opening day of deer season is crowded in most of the accessible places throughout the state.

I can understand where you are coming from by trying to get first had info from someone other than your neighbor. As a land surveyor I can tell you that in most of these types of situations there is an interest in the land by the person who doesn't own it. I would not be surprised if your neighbor is planning on hunting the area and trying to eliminate competition. You would know this better than I though, and I don't want to accuse.

 

[dreaminbouthuntin]

>Oh I've done my homework. Thats
>how I know where, when,
>and how I can legally
>be. 99.9% of the time,
>any private land owner will
>never know I was there.
>And if it's clearly posted,
>cultivated, etc, I won't
>ever be there. Nine out
>of ten times it's not
>even their property I'm interested
>in, but what lies beyond
>that they want to keep
>me out of......Times have changed
>and playing nice on this
>subject is no longer an
>option. "Ask First" is a
>joke and I'll do the
>research neccessary to find out
>if I need to ask
>at all. Cuz I'd just
>as soon have zero interaction
>with the LO's.
>
>Slobs that destroy others property and
>tear down signs etc should
>be dealt with. If caught
>they should get too see
>the inside of a jail
>cell. So should LO's who
>illegally post public ,etc.
>
>
>
>
>the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
>

I agree, your last statement is the issue. If we could get LE to do anything about it, it wouldnt happen as much as it does. I even put out trail cams in the heavily tresspassed areas, got pics and still LE bocked and didnt want to do their jobs.
Our biggest problem is not what lies beyond the property, its whats on the property that they want and take. More often than not, they never recover the bucks and i find them dead. Too many dead heads sitting in my house from this.
Funny, fish and game is now having a wildlife summit.. to hear what we want.. i think we have been pretty clear on the matter. Imo.

 

[GSJ]

Thats half the problem with the state of things in the outdoors today, getting the powers that be to enforce rules that already exist..be it trasspass, illegal offroading, etc.

BTW, I respect landowners rights and all but in this day and age, you have to take advantage of opportunity where you can.






the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".

 

[tufcntry]

i would post it, and gate it! i think it is just rude and ignorant for people to think they can just go on somebodies land without asking. unfortunately hunting brings out the worst in people in situations like this they are to dang lazy to look at a map or hike a little farther, I can't stand these ignorant suckers when most of idaho is public. ASK FIRST don't be an idiot even if they are being respectful to the land its NOT there's they should stay the heck off.

 

[THRILL]

i bought a small piece of property 3 years ago

I posted it, and about stressed out because of all the people that were sneaking on
They were people that knew the property and knew how to come in not seen

The worst part is, many of them were people I know and figure I wouldnt mind or I wouldn't turn them in

It was a big financial burden that we saved many years to get in the door
I found a little peace by realizing it's a nice problem to have that I had never had to first hand experience before

I then started thinking about people I knew that never fix up their own place because they are afraid someone else may use it
I came to the realization that even if other people use it, I still get to use it and the nicer I make it, the more I will enjoy it

I understand passing through private ground to get to public ground
I don't understand setting up camp and making a mess on private ground
Or trying to sneak in and out

I guess I am just trying to say, your perspective changes when you become the landowner. And you don't know how frustrating it is for people to trespass on you when they think it's their God given right or they won't get caught or in trouble

 

[BPKHunter]

THRILL you seem reasonable in your post. I understand your frustration as I feel 110% that you should never go on posted land.

You did post your land, but how do you feel about people going on unposted private ground? Would you do the same now?

PS I am jealous of your problem too.

 

[coyotebuster08]

We have a small patch of land in Arizona also, the land is in an an area where all of the land is private or restricted use. During the spring we would drop some of trees that didn't make it through winter and during the fall we would cut them for winter wood. We posted the land when woodcutters from town decided that it was much easier to cut on our property than to travel further South, a group of deer hunters had established a campsite right off our road. After the posting nothing changed, each trip there showed the cutters moving farther onto our land as the pickings got slimmer and harder to reach from the road. I can't guess the number of side roads that that get cut each year in the area.
Finally we fenced it, the cost to fence it properly shocked me but it needed to be done. It took several weekend trips with friends and volunteers to get it done. Of course, free labor is never free as the food and drink bill ran several hundred dollars each week and added quite a bit to fence cost.
Now, each spring and fall the fencing needs maintenance to make sure that the fence does not become dangerous to animals(and people).
People in the area have reached the same conclusion so now everything is being fenced, local crime is down and game numbers are increasing. Road maintenance is about 1/2 of what it used to cost each year.
As many here have stated, fencing solves more problems than it creates.
Thanks for your input.
CB08

 

[idhunters]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-21-12 AT 09:10PM (MST)[p]Good fences make good neighbors.

I still believe a sign keeps out 90% of the people and nothing will stop the other 10% except a ticket. Tickets or the threat of usually works. I have asked the local F&G to call people and warn them when I get a license plate.

I have run off alot of people but I have never had someone issued a ticket. Almost did one time but the over limit ticket on waterfowl was a bigger deal so they gave him that one.

Its still the burden of the landowner to post non-cultivated/irrigated ground in order to have a ticket issued.