Seriously, I’ve always got along with Brian too.he's an easily offended liberal
It was a joke, and I see the humor in it...Members of this site can ask what they want and others can choose to help or not. Being mean or rude to members who ask won’t be tolerated. Just don’t reply at all if you don’t want to.
same here ! Pm works great ! Have had several in already that I’m talking too! SheeshIf a youth hunter is involved, I will always get someone pointed in the right direction if I can.
Really don't care if an adult fills their tag or not, but if they PM I will help.
No problem!Glad I only asked for guide info! Lol
Appreciate the guys who offered help and sent the pms.
The humor in your joke is that Boy Wonder is always asking Batman something and Boy Wonder can't seem to be a self starter and figure things out on his own.Same
same here ! Pm works great ! Have had several in already that I’m talking too! Sheesh
When it's an OIL hunt, I will even give guys gps coordinates where I shot mine or got into them.As a non resident of New Mexico any starting point from a resident is huge. It give most guys an area to look over on maps, google earth etc. I understand where your coming from when it comes to a resident. I put in for (6) states every year and the states I’ve drawn in the past I’ve always got good info from members here. I drew a Utah archery goat tag a few years ago and 2 guys dialed me right in. Had a guy last year draw the same tag and he reached out to me from searching the unit on MM. His dad ended up killing a goat based on my info. I’ve helped a couple non resident guys out over the years in my home state of AZ.
Geno, you know how I feel about this. Founder is spot on. Dont encourage this BS because I dont feel like getting wasting my time getting into pissing contests with idiots.
Scroll on past if you dont want to help someone.
Telling you man ! SAMEWhen it's an OIL hunt, I will even give guys gps coordinates where I shot mine or got into them.
A general draw where we could end up in the same drainage one year, or the friend the other guy helps when he draws the tag, is a different deal...
Unit 1 and 27 are pretty sought after. Excellent units. Takes 18pts to guarantee that elk tag as a non resident for archery. A few bulls every year come out of there pushing 400inches. The jimmy John Bull last year which was well over 4hundy came out of 27.Rut hunter how is the draw in Az say in the alpine area thanks
And for enough money they will find him, take the gun for you and run you in and out of the spot on a mule! Cause that’s hunting!Unit 1 and 27 are pretty sought after. Excellent units. Takes 18pts to guarantee that elk tag as a non resident for archery. A few bulls every year come out of there pushing 400inches. The jimmy John Bull last year which was well over 4hundy came out of 27.
? so like Facebook has “Facebook jail” are we going to have a Monster Muleys jail? I do agree that sometimes people can be overly rude to people on this website, but I also think this group just loves to have fun and mess with others.Brian is your last name Zuckerberg by chance ???
The ones you need to watch out for are the lurkers. The ones who draw killer tags, sit back and are silent and let everyone do all the talking because they think they don't have the tag...Also don’t tell anyone they have a mediocre tag. It is a trick question, just like “do these pants make me look fat”. They want us to lie to them and tell them they will kill a monster as long as they are willing to pass on the dozens of other bucks they see each day.
Yeah, the guys that never share any knowledge either...@RR ... be quiet about that...shhhh
Some of us sneak in all stealthy and whisper. We're less likely to get shot that way. FWIW I have plenty of outgoing PMs also.
Spot on!I don't understand why its so tough for some folks. If you really want advice all you have to do is use a little work ethic and most folks are more then willing. Call the local BLM or forest service office and talk to the biologist, if he wont talk talk to the road crew or rangeland folks they are almost always helpful. Call the game warden and state biologist and talk to them. Local MDF or RMEF chapter folks too. Use the search function on MM to find everything you can about the unit from past posts. Use google earth or similar to try and figure out a simple game plan, thoughts, and a couple specific areas of interest/focus as a first draft based on the information you gathered thus far. Then DM the folks that offered advice on the unit in the past from your MM research describing your plan and thoughts and the lessons the other folks shared with you and what they think is right/wrong/better and boom like magic the good folks at MM are usually very helpful. Even with phone tag on the part of state and federal employees doing their day jobs really doesn't take that much time.
- if this trend continues we will have more hunters but less opportunity to hunt (at least out west on public land).
Sad but true. NM doesn't care, it's the revenue they want, not the ability of consistently being able to hunt.With NM hunting applications steadily increasing every year not to mention an additional 60,000 new ones this year, odds of ever drawing again have tanked and will only continue to do so.
Depends on the point system and how it's ran. If done right, the more points you have you only increase your personal chances for a better place in the list against others new to the game. It's still random.Don't get me started on points systems. Despite NM allowing folks to "sit out" and then "get back in" we still have the best thing going. All points do is basically reduce or completely eliminate your odds for X number of years with possibly some light at the end of the long tunnel. At least with our system we really do have an even chance every year.
This is the best way. Choose your weapon.Want to increase odds (except for rifle) go back to the system of having to make all 3 choices the same. So anyone dedicated with Muzzle would have better odds and so to Bow. As it is now every throws a muzzle or bow 3rd choice even if they don't own one.
I get there are some systems that are better than others. But by definition if "your" chances go up, then "someone else's" chances go down. Has to happen. Because if my odds go up, yours go up, his goes up, hers goes up...then relatively none of ours have gone up.
All systems have to juggle fewer tags than demand.
In most cases it becomes all about $$$. Institute a point system and force people to shell out $ year after year. I'm not a fan.
Supply and demand at it’s “worst”!Iowan, NM actually tried something similar sometime back to what what you recommended above.
Your thought of a number of unsuccessful people applying consistently should have their name throw in the hat twice.
This eventually and unfortunately results in more and more unsuccessful people applying every year for this second go around drawing to the point that again, more people are competing for the same limited quota of “loyalty” tags than available.
As an example, NM, numerous years ago, used to offer a guaranteed rifle antelope tag to anyone who unsuccessfully applied for a goat tag three years in a row. G and F would send an unsuccessful applicant an “unsuccessful voucher” every year up to three years. After three years, an applicant would submit the three unsuccessful vouchers with the fourth application and automatically receive a goat tag. This program lasted for all of about three years.
As expected, more applicants ended up with three unsuccessful vouchers than goat tags available!
The major problem these days highlights the sad reality is that more people are applying for the limited number of tags available.
Supply and demand at it’s worth.
And they are going to have the exact same "advantage" as you regardless of whatever point system is instituted...thereby not really increasing your own odds at all.
Keep NM RANDOM!
Yes, no points here please. We all have a chance every year. Odds go way up if you study and plan.
Dogging someone that drew in a unit they know nothing about shows that one is Jealous because they more than likely saw RED and they want their misery to be your misery.
"Don't think about a traditional point system. Think of it as someone who gets a few extra roles of the dice. Everything is still random but someone who can't draw a tag with 2 tags available and 3 applicants will eventually get more than one dice roll to finally draw one of those two tags."
Still, my point is by someone getting more rolls their odds increase at the expense of someone else who may only get 1 roll. Yes it's random, but with more random chances one guy has better overall odds. Again, it all boils down to whether you believe someone should have better odds because they've been "unlucky" for years or if you believe that even without any tweaking to create additional rolls eventually purely random 1-roll opportunities will even out in the long run...which they will IMO.
"Odds go way up if you study and plan" True. That's why folks who pick 16A for all 3 choices generally fare poorly but others who are willing to settle for lower quality units generally fare better. In my experience the people who complain about not drawing are the ones who say things like "I just like unit X so I apply there every year". Or "Unit Y has a bunch of tags so I always apply there" never mind Unit Y also has a bazillion applicants.
Points systems are a way to appease people who are jealous that others have drawn and they haven't. Guess what, there will ALWAYS be a lot more people who don't draw tags than people who do. Just much fewer tags than demand for them. And no matter what points system there will always be complainers for a "better" way. Meaning a way "they" can draw a tag. Not necessarily "more fair".
And they used to look at everyone's first choice before looking at 2nd and 3rd. Required a different strategy. Not saying it was better, just different.Single weapon is how it used to be.
Not a fan of one weapon, but wouldn't mind looking at all 1st choices before looking at 2nd. Other than that leave it alone, or just leave it alone completely. Yes odds go up if you study and plan and willing to go on 3rd choice.
I'd not be averse to "all same weapon" choice as we used to do, nor would I be averse to looking at all 1st choices, then all 2nd choices, then all 3rd choice, also as we used to do. However, either of these methods allow someone who's savvy to do some cyphering and figure out ways to increase their odds...thereby drawing tags more often...thereby making others complain that someone draws more often than them...thereby requesting some sort of points system, which is why those methods went away in the first place.
By my definition, if someone gets 10 random rolls to try and get a low number, their odds of doing so go up vs. someone who only gets 1 roll. Can the 1-roller do it? Sure sometimes, but based on statistical odds, no. So someone's odds have gone up compared to another.
And the problem is due to supply and demand it doesn't take long before there are A LOT of 10-rollers. Which means all the 10-rollers are in the same boat as a ton of people, so their odds really haven't changed or increased. But the odds of the 1-roller are worse in comparison.
based on the math it seems to me that no point system such as nm with as many as 60k new apps. your odd get worse , wear as most other states with pts my odds got better. If this is the new trend than nm may get as tough to draw an elk tag as a sheep tag. I have been applying in nm for 24 years and drew muzzy 34 nearly 20 years ago and a late 2b deer maybe 10 years ago and this year I got a first muzzy unit 13 so that seems like real bad odds and they are getting worse. I am a nonres. I dont really care if nm starts selling pt but I will be buying,
I'm a nonresident of NM and don't want to see a point system. I believe having a point system in NM would decrease the number of tags I get in NM over the next 20 years. Sure I could have 20 elk point in 20 years and have better odds at finally getting a gila elk tag but that would mean someone else would have decreased odds. All the new to NM nonresidents would have terrible odds.Agree with WapitiBob that points do make sense for NR. Because they can begin to plan "when" they may draw, and the years they don't have any chance of drawing who cares, they don't live in NM. But for Residents I don't like Points.
Your math is bad if you think a point system improves your odds of drawing future tags. It is really simple math, point systems encourage more applicants to apply every year. Your odds decreases when more applicants apply each year for the same number of tags.
point creep in states like Colorado are real.
I'm pretty happy with the 6 hunting licenses that that my son and I have drawn over the past 3 years. It's pretty much the number of tags I'd expect considering the choices that I make.
The way New Mexico runs the draw works for me.
NM has no point system, applications go up every year, odds decrease as a result.
Agree with you BrianID. Points schemes are designed to encourage people to keep applying every year to avoid getting left behind. So points encourage even more applications.
HOPEFULLY many of the covid enthusiasts who applied will either a) not apply in the future because they didn't draw or b) don't know how to hunt in the first place and aren't spoon-fed a honey-hole by numerous blabbermouths so they give up and don't apply in the future, thereby odds get somewhat back to normal. I know, wishful thinking...
the more applicants that apply in a given year, the less likely I am to draw a tag.
Regardless of NM changing their draw process, it will continue to become more difficult to draw a tag in NM in future years. A point system would just make it less likely to draw a tag for a guy like me that faithfully applies every year.
That's because CO is stupid on how they run their point system.I read an article about unit 201 in CO. The kids in the town near there will draw an elk tag in their eighties.
It works for me every year.That's because CO is stupid on how they run their point system.
It works for me every year.
The problem with point systems is that they are done wrong.
You do realize that a random draw is just another form of "socialism" don't you? The illusion of the random draw is the equal chance every year but when there is a surge in applications (like this year), those chances reduce significantly individually.People have argued the same thing about Socialism. They say we just haven't tried the right type of socialism yet. Point systems are like socialism. They seem to work for the first few years but you have to look at the long term consequences to realize they are a bad idea.
I've been playing the point game in multiple Western states for 20 years now. This year I'm applying in AZ, NM, CO, ID, UT, NV, WY, TX and Montana. I may add Nebraska this year as well. I prefer the random system in ID and NM and hope they never add a point system. There has been some push to add a point system in Idaho but fortunately many of the residents of Idaho have figured out they are a bad idea.
You have every right to believe point systems are a good idea for you but you aren't going to convince me they are good for me.
In your reference to mandatory hunters safety, I would have to agree. There are a lot of trigger happy idiots in this state shooting at anything that moves. I am not for over restrictions but hunters safety is a good thing.Agree with WapitiBob that points do make sense for NR. Because they can begin to plan "when" they may draw, and the years they don't have any chance of drawing who cares, they don't live in NM. But for Residents I don't like Points.
Also the comment about making Hunter's Ed mandatory is something I hadn't thought about before and may have merit. I agree there are A LOT of people who toss their relatives into the draw, or toss their friends (so they can help) when either those people really aren't hunters, or in many cases those people won't even make it into the field and the tags will be used by the person who convinced them to apply. At least by making HE mandatory those relatives wouldn't be in the pool and on another front the anti-hunters who apply for tags to eliminate someone from hunting wouldn't be in the pool. Unless they go through the hassle of taking HE, which most won't. This may be a pitch we could all get behind which should increase odds a bit.
That was a very interesting read thank you coryb.Roadrunner,
You are 100% (sticking with the odds theme) wrong that studying and planning are irrelevant. You can draw far more by understanding the system and using it to your advantage.
I'll offer a simple breakdown that will increase your odds more than any point system here could. All you need to look at is total apps in your category (res, nonres, or outfitted) for a specific hunt code vs total tags in the same category. Disregard who drew as first choice, second, etc...
If there are 100 tags and 1000 applicants in your group you have ROUGHLY a 10% chance of drawing. I understand that doesn't mean 10% exactly as more or less could apply next year or you could have simple bad luck, but exactly 10% of hunters who applied last year drew and exactly 90% didn't. You would have a better chance of drawing this than a hunt with 100 tags and 10,000 applicants. It's simple....
When the draw is run and you are assigned a random number, you have a 10% chance that the number is low enough for one of those tags to be available. (Again, this is a rough understanding of the odds in this hunt code, not a guarantee). Please look at this simply. I know that there are other species, etc adding numbers to the game but they are irrelevant to the hunt code in question. It is solely determined by the applicants and tags for it alone.
Here is a real world example: My young son and nephews just passed hunters ed this year (I know, they added 10+ apps to the increase between them and you suffered because of it) and I wanted to make sure they had a chance to hunt. I found a hunt code that for the last several years has had 15 tags and only 18 applicants. I also have several friends that have been hunting it with their kids for years and have had high success rates so I have info to make it a good hunt. Based on these numbers I KNEW they had roughly an 83% chance of drawing it REGARDLESS OF WHAT NUMBER THEIR APPLICATION WAS ASSIGNED IN THE DRAW!!!!!! Sure enough, they all three drew it, even though they were on separate applications. Roadrunner, any claim that this result was strictly random would be foolish at best. Studying and planning resulted in them drawing. PERIOD!!!!
Instead of spending the time to write dozens of posts on a topic you are "indifferent" towards, you could have used that time studying odds and planning to draw. You can disbelieve all you want and continue to miss opportunities to hunt. Sure, you will get lucky some times and get great or OK tags. But those of us who choose to understand the system continue to benefit. Many of us also help others benefit from understanding the system. I know hunters who love to hunt and spend far too many seasons on the sidelines simply because they are unwilling to do the leg work.
NM has the best system. You can find a way to draw if you want. You can buy a tag as a backup. Birds and fish always available. If we could just get rid of the gangsters and criminals this state would be just about perfect....
Haha.Looks like I will definitely need to do some scouting for deer this year. Drew a hunt that I put in for knowing I would not draw it and ended up drawing the damn thing. New Mexico rifle hunt unit 5B the high quality high demand hunt. I could probably put in for that damn hunt for the rest of my life and never draw it. LOL. I hear that is one of the best hunts and places to hunt deer in New Mexico.
I'll offer a simple breakdown that will increase your odds more than any point system here could. All you need to look at is total apps in your category (res, nonres, or outfitted) for a specific hunt code vs total tags in the same category.
Disregard who drew as first choice, second, etc...
If there are 100 tags and 1000 applicants in your group you have ROUGHLY a 10% chance of drawing. I understand that doesn't mean 10% exactly as more or less could apply next year or you could have simple bad luck, but exactly 10% of hunters who applied last year drew and exactly 90% didn't. You would have a better chance of drawing this than a hunt with 100 tags and 10,000 applicants. It's simple....
Here is a real world example: My young son and nephews just passed hunters ed this year (I know, they added 10+ apps to the increase between them and you suffered because of it) and I wanted to make sure they had a chance to hunt. I found a hunt code that for the last several years has had 15 tags and only 18 applicants. I also have several friends that have been hunting it with their kids for years and have had high success rates so I have info to make it a good hunt. Based on these numbers I KNEW they had roughly an 83% chance of drawing it REGARDLESS OF WHAT NUMBER THEIR APPLICATION WAS ASSIGNED IN THE DRAW!!!!!! Sure enough, they all three drew it, even though they were on separate applications. Roadrunner, any claim that this result was strictly random would be foolish at best. Studying and planning resulted in them drawing. PERIOD!!!
Instead of spending the time to write dozens of posts on a topic you are "indifferent" towards, you could have used that time studying odds and planning to draw. You can disbelieve all you want and continue to miss opportunities to hunt. Sure, you will get lucky some times and get great or OK tags. But those of us who choose to understand the system continue to benefit. Many of us also help others benefit from understanding the system. I know hunters who love to hunt and spend far too many seasons on the sidelines simply because they are unwilling to do the leg work.
Private and public land hunts since 1992 for elk, mule deer, sheep, pronghorn, black Bear & lion hunts.
Public and private land big game hunts. Rifle, muzzleloader and archery hunts available. Free Draw Application Service!
Offering a wide array of hunt opportunities and putting clients in prime position to bag a trophy.
Hunts in New Mexico on private ranches and remote public land in the top units. Elk vouchers available.
Landowner tags available! Hunt big bulls and bucks. Any season and multiple hunt units to choose from.