Utah Deer Change Proposals

[hossblur]

>Hoss,
>I answered the question right after
>you asked. Did you
>not read my response or
>did you just not understand
>it?

No you didn't. The only ACTUAL NUMBER you discussed was in regards to a discussion you had with some Texas see. That # was 50,000(40k cut?)

If you did simply cut and paste. You didn't because that would reveal what you want. "More", better, healthier, quality give you plenty of wiggle room



Slam I totally agree with what you just wrote. Unfortunately, while we were going about our business a couple special interest groups figured out how to benefit via politics, so now its political.

Muley is Muley. He's pro $fw but not a member but pro, but not a member.

He's up for the fight, not putting out concrete ideas to fight for or against, but up for the fight.

He's not about cutting guys out, but not against it, but definitely not for it, but won't be against it.

I've argued with him several times, and have yet to figure out his position other than he knows better than everyone else.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[hossblur]

>>2 voting members of the WB
>>are SFW. The Don
>>is on trumps council.
>>Herbert, and Chaffetz tied into
>>SFW. Should we just
>>not see the elephant invtge
>>room?
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>Actually, there are 3 known SFW
>members on the Wildlife Board;
>Bryon Bateman, Steve Dalton and
>Donnie Hunter. And I suspect
>Kevin Albrect is also a
>member, but I can't verify
>that one. I know he
>sides with them a lot
>per my observation on the
>Mule Deer Planning Committee.

You sir are correct, my mouth got ahead of my brain

]
From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[deadibob]

>WHY DID WE LOSE 800,000. Deer(muleys
>number), at the same time
>we lost 150,000 tags?
>
>I have yet to see Muley,
>and now you answer that.
>
>
>If tag cuts equals improved herds,
>where is the proof.
>
>And not that straw man, Obama
>answer of "there would be
>nothing left otherwise". Thats
>not science.
>
>Cut it anyway you want.
>
>The legislature sees it has 90k
>hunters in the state.
>
>The DWR gets 90k tag fees
>
>
>The media yearly does some version
>of 90k stories
>
>I'm betting THE DON uses that
>number in comparison to $fw
>membership to make it look
>like a bigger percentage of
>Utahns are members.
>
>But, deadi, ill ask you.
>
>HOW MANY MORE TAGS DO YOU
>WANT CUT?
>
>HOW MANY DEER WILL THAT ADD?
>
>
>If you can't answer those 2
>questions, then how can you
>push for tag cuts to
>supposedly help deer
>
>BTW your math is more than
>sketchy considering dedicated hunters, dudes
>who draw every year, undeesubscribed
>units.
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

WE DID NOT LOSE 800,000 DEER WHEN WE CUT 150,000 TAGS! We cut tags because we lost the deer and it didn't happen over night. Only a fool would think herd numbers decrease when and because tags were cut. There are many factors as to the reason why deer numbers plummeted. Here are a few: Reduced deer range, most notably winter range, was drastically reduced by Urban sprawl and I-15. Increased vehicle collision mortality (more deer are killed on highways than by hunters). Increased predator numbers. Poaching. Winter kill. Degradation of habitat. It all takes it's toll and chips away, you can't just pick one reason and lay blame to it.

Only a fool would correlate decreased tag numbers with fewer deer. If that were the case, then printing more tags should magically increase deer numbers.

My math is not sketchy. You keep talking about decreased revenue from Pittman/Robertson funds, but you don't understand how they are distributed. Funds are allocated according to hunting license sales, not tag sales. This is why Utah requires you to buy a hunting license in order to put in for the draws. in 2017 Utah sold over 226,000 hunting licenses. 2018 funds allocated to Utah are 21 million but only 14.6 million is for hunting while 6.4 million is for fishing. The truth is Pittman/Robertson doesn't do much for wildlife. Much of those funds have to be earmarked for Shooting ranges and hunter safety programs.

How many more tags do I want cut? Just one, yours ;-)

If the DWR managed wildlife the scientific way, tag numbers would fluctuate year to year, unit by unit, because herds are dynamic and change for many reasons. So there is no hard number to pull out of a hat You see, according to the North American wildlife management model, sport hunting is nothing more than a tool for managing wildlife, when used appropriately. When it is used as a source of revenue by special interest groups, bad things happen.

The first thing I would do if I were in charge is make sure the state had Hard and accurate data. It is common knowledge the way Utah calculates herd numbers is far from accurate. When there is a clear picture of herd numbers and health, range health and carrying capacity, unit by unit, then and only then can a proper plan be put into place.

Once a unit has been assessed, nothing is off the table, including tag restrictions. There is much more that can be done though, including, Antler point restrictions, habitat restoration, hunting method restrictions (primitive hunts), fewer hunter afield days (either shorter hunts or fewer tags).

Personally I am glad we got rid of the casual hunter who doesn't take it serious. As a generalization they cause more problems and give a black eye to hunting because they don't have a deep love for it, don't understand sportsmanship and don't follow the rules. They are the ones who go out the day before the hunt, shoot a couple shots with their rifle and say, that's good enough, resulting in wounded animals. They are the ones trespassing private property, cutting fences, tearing up roads, leaving trash and making sure nobody ever hunts there again.
I'd also like to get rid of the guys who think hunting is an excuse to get in their razor and go on a drinking binge, ready to blast at the first thing they see. I see more of those guys every year.

 

[Muley_73]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-18 AT 02:06PM (MST)[p]Hoss,
My answer was that the deer herd fell below their critical mass in the late 80s. Do you understand critical mass and how continued hunting and pressure can have a lasting effect on that?

As far as SFW, I have stated that they do more than any other group for the state. That is a fact. Do they do enough, no. Do I always agree no. They are a tool that can be used and have been used in the past. You and others like you however are not useful in any aspect, so when you hammer SFW I tend to lean toward their side as I do see some value in them. Its just my personal thoughts. They can and have been useful for agendas I support at times, other times they are opposite of my views or agenda, but there is still some value. Your stance, views, agenda, approach...zero value. Does not make me an SFW lover or hater. It just depends on the current agenda and goals.

Lee,
I have explained literally 100s of times. I don't need to explain again because your support is really not a concern to me. Neither is Hoss's. My agenda and end goal is much different than guys like yourself and Hoss. So I don't care where you fit in. Focusing on that will serve zero purpose in the final goal.

 

[elkfromabove]

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-18
>AT 02:06?PM (MST)
>
>Hoss,
>My answer was that the deer
>herd fell below their critical
>mass in the late 80s.
> Do you understand critical
>mass and how continued hunting
>and pressure can have a
>lasting effect on that?
>
>As far as SFW, I have
>stated that they do more
>than any other group for
>the state. That is
>a fact. Do they
>do enough, no. Do
>I always agree no.
>They are a tool that
>can be used and have
>been used in the past.
> You and others like
>you however are not useful
>in any aspect, so when
>you hammer SFW I tend
>to lean toward their side
>as I do see some
>value in them. Its
>just my personal thoughts.
>They can and have been
>useful for agendas I support
>at times, other times they
>are opposite of my views
>or agenda, but there is
>still some value. Your
>stance, views, agenda, approach...zero value.
> Does not make me
>an SFW lover or hater.
> It just depends on
>the current agenda and goals.
>
>
>Lee,
>I have explained literally 100s of
>times. I don't need
>to explain again because your
>support is really not a
>concern to me. Neither
>is Hoss's. My agenda
>and end goal is much
>different than guys like yourself
>and Hoss. So I
>don't care where you fit
>in. Focusing on that
>will serve zero purpose in
>the final goal.

Ah, c'mon! Give others besides me and Hoss the scoop. There are MANY new young hunters that have been recruited and new adult members of this forum who also haven't see the big picture. Don't you want to tell them? Afterall, they are the ones who will most benefit from your wisdom. You want their support, don't you?

 

[deadibob]

>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-18
>>AT 02:06?PM (MST)
>>
>>Hoss,
>>My answer was that the deer
>>herd fell below their critical
>>mass in the late 80s.
>> Do you understand critical
>>mass and how continued hunting
>>and pressure can have a
>>lasting effect on that?
>>
>>As far as SFW, I have
>>stated that they do more
>>than any other group for
>>the state. That is
>>a fact. Do they
>>do enough, no. Do
>>I always agree no.
>>They are a tool that
>>can be used and have
>>been used in the past.
>> You and others like
>>you however are not useful
>>in any aspect, so when
>>you hammer SFW I tend
>>to lean toward their side
>>as I do see some
>>value in them. Its
>>just my personal thoughts.
>>They can and have been
>>useful for agendas I support
>>at times, other times they
>>are opposite of my views
>>or agenda, but there is
>>still some value. Your
>>stance, views, agenda, approach...zero value.
>> Does not make me
>>an SFW lover or hater.
>> It just depends on
>>the current agenda and goals.
>>
>>
>>Lee,
>>I have explained literally 100s of
>>times. I don't need
>>to explain again because your
>>support is really not a
>>concern to me. Neither
>>is Hoss's. My agenda
>>and end goal is much
>>different than guys like yourself
>>and Hoss. So I
>>don't care where you fit
>>in. Focusing on that
>>will serve zero purpose in
>>the final goal.
>
>Ah, c'mon! Give others besides me
>and Hoss the scoop. There
>are MANY new young hunters
>that have been recruited and
>new adult members of this
>forum who also haven't see
>the big picture. Don't you
>want to tell them? Afterall,
>they are the ones who
>will most benefit from your
>wisdom. You want their support,
>don't you?

Raise the minimum age for big game hunting back to 14. If you want to let a younger kid hunt, use the mentor program. The mentor program makes a younger age minimum redundant.

 

[hossblur]

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-18
>AT 02:06?PM (MST)
>
>Hoss,
>My answer was that the deer
>herd fell below their critical
>mass in the late 80s.
> Do you understand critical
>mass and how continued hunting
>and pressure can have a
>lasting effect on that?
>
>As far as SFW, I have
>stated that they do more
>than any other group for
>the state. That is
>a fact. Do they
>do enough, no. Do
>I always agree no.
>They are a tool that
>can be used and have
>been used in the past.
> You and others like
>you however are not useful
>in any aspect, so when
>you hammer SFW I tend
>to lean toward their side
>as I do see some
>value in them. Its
>just my personal thoughts.
>They can and have been
>useful for agendas I support
>at times, other times they
>are opposite of my views
>or agenda, but there is
>still some value. Your
>stance, views, agenda, approach...zero value.
> Does not make me
>an SFW lover or hater.
> It just depends on
>the current agenda and goals.
>
>
>Lee,
>I have explained literally 100s of
>times. I don't need
>to explain again because your
>support is really not a
>concern to me. Neither
>is Hoss's. My agenda
>and end goal is much
>different than guys like yourself
>and Hoss. So I
>don't care where you fit
>in. Focusing on that
>will serve zero purpose in
>the final goal.

Huh. And here I read you said over And over you answered the question. DO YOU realize that critical mass is an actual #. A number that you STILL can't quantify. In fact the only thing you repeat is how much you know, how much more that is than anyone else, VUT ITS OBVIOUSLY TOP SECRET

Here's the fact. YOU DONT KNOW.

You read the same reports, the same research as everyone else. Yet you, some random dude have your finger on some pulse that all the dumbazz biologists in the state can't figure out.

You are great at telling everyone how they care only in it for themselves, while admitting you've had a tag in your pocket every year except one.


Science is based on theory, then experimentation to either prove or disprove the theory followed by peer review.

Your gut feeling, top secret knowledge, and talking down to any one that disagrees with you ain't science. It ain't repeatable, and frankly ain't anything new.I guess, you have yet to actually tell us your great secret.

Ever think $fw is using you as a tool? I realize you believe your manipulating them.


I'm against tag cuts.
Wayyyy against $fw being involved.
Open to tech being reduced.

Good luck getting Muley to put out what he is ACTUALLY for.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[Muley_73]

Hoss,
The answer would be identify what critical mass is for each unit and then address the best way to reach that . Once you do that you open the door for more tags.

There is no magic overall number. Ithas to be micro managed on each unit. What may work on one unit will not work on another unit. Some units will need added predator control, some will need reduced access, some may thrive with season date changes, some might respond to habitat improvement, some might need tags cut, or seasons closed. Just depends on the unit and what that specific unit needs.

Might I dare suggest that sportsmen form working groups for individual units and focus on what they think will help each unit.

There is no blanket number or fix, to claim there is would be foolish.

I'm not a tool for SFW or any other group. Just an individual that has some ideas that i think would help the herds and overall hunting in the state of Utah for deer. I have seen first hand what moves the needle and what doesn't. I've seen many come and go and claim that change is not ever going to happen.

You are not part of the solution and neither are individuals that think or approach these issues that way you do. You can believe what you want but I'll believe what I want and chase the options that have worked for me and those I support in the past.

 

[slamdunk]

>Hoss,
>The answer would be identify what
>critical mass is for each
>unit and then address the
>best way to reach that
>. Once you do
>that you open the door
>for more tags.
>
>There is no magic overall number.
> Ithas to be micro
>managed on each unit.
>What may work on one
>unit will not work on
>another unit. Some units
>will need added predator control,
>some will need reduced access,
>some may thrive with season
>date changes, some might respond
>to habitat improvement, some might
>need tags cut, or seasons
>closed. Just depends on
>the unit and what that
>specific unit needs.
>
>Might I dare suggest that sportsmen
>form working groups for individual
>units and focus on what
>they think will help each
>unit.
>
>There is no blanket number or
>fix, to claim there is
>would be foolish.
>
>I'm not a tool for SFW
>or any other group.
>Just an individual that has
>some ideas that i think
>would help the herds and
>overall hunting in the state
>of Utah for deer.
>I have seen first hand
>what moves the needle and
>what doesn't. I've seen
>many come and go and
>claim that change is not
>ever going to happen.

Aside from the bickering, this is very well said and is exactly along my same lines of thought.
Each unit needs managed accordingly, period.
Look how Wyoming manages their regions.
It CAN be done.

 

[hossblur]

>Hoss,
>The answer would be identify what
>critical mass is for each
>unit and then address the
>best way to reach that
>. Once you do
>that you open the door
>for more tags.
>
>There is no magic overall number.
> Ithas to be micro
>managed on each unit.
>What may work on one
>unit will not work on
>another unit. Some units
>will need added predator control,
>some will need reduced access,
>some may thrive with season
>date changes, some might respond
>to habitat improvement, some might
>need tags cut, or seasons
>closed. Just depends on
>the unit and what that
>specific unit needs.
>
>Might I dare suggest that sportsmen
>form working groups for individual
>units and focus on what
>they think will help each
>unit.
>
>There is no blanket number or
>fix, to claim there is
>would be foolish.
>
>I'm not a tool for SFW
>or any other group.
>Just an individual that has
>some ideas that i think
>would help the herds and
>overall hunting in the state
>of Utah for deer.
>I have seen first hand
>what moves the needle and
>what doesn't. I've seen
>many come and go and
>claim that change is not
>ever going to happen.
>
>You are not part of the
>solution and neither are individuals
>that think or approach these
>issues that way you do.
> You can believe what
>you want but I'll believe
>what I want and chase
>the options that have worked
>for me and those I
>support in the past.

208 posts to get an actual idea, and a good one. Is support it.


Times have changed. Your up against an extremely loaded WB, a well funded special interest group, where decisions are made a long way from passionate hunters and biologists. I'm not sure fighting them directly moves the needle, but I know not doing so just allows them to do as they please. That is why I'm so against allowing us to be separated further or weakened in our numbers.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[ridgetops]

>Aside from the bickering, this is
>very well said and is
>exactly along my same lines
>of thought.
>Each unit needs managed accordingly, period.
>
>Look how Wyoming manages their regions.
>
>It CAN be done.


That's why I was willing to support option 2 when it was presented.

 

[Robiland]

I have been following this post the last 2 days and watching the same 4-5 argue back and forth on who is right and who is wrong. From my opinion, you are all right and you are all wrong at the same time. I know, confusing. I see both sides and and have thought both ways several times. Right now, I am not sure what the answer is.

BUT.......The last few years I have been rifle hunting for my kids and my wife (I usually just archery hunt). And this year I did dedicated so that I had a tag for the next 3 years. I have seen some great bucks the last few years. It has been a blast trying to get my son or wife onto these deer. I have seen some of the best hunting this last year than I have seen in a LONG LONG time. So its hard for me to say the sky is falling. I had the chance of a lifetime on a buck of a lifetime this year and I CHOKED!!! 30" buck with several cheaters on both sides. I know where I will be this next year!!!

I just got back from hunting Colorado 3rd season. I know it apples and oranges, but my thought is why cant we have the deer that they do? Dont give me the habitat excuse. I was not far from Utah. Looked the exact same as here, except there was gas and oil rigs all over. And that was where I saw the most deer. And some of the best deer. Infact, I shot my buck .25 miles from the gas plant. My buddies was shot 200 yards from the plant.

As I talked to my friend (lifetime license holder) we thought about the same thing, why cant Utah be like this. We drove roads, never really had to hike and saw deer eveywhere. A roadhunters dream!!!! Shot my buck at 75 yards and my buddy shot his at 30 yards. We passed several 4 points a day, yes, a day. NEVER would that happen in Utah. The residents take 3-4 years to draw that tag. I would gladly do that to hunt that here in Utah. But my buddy asked, what about me (him) with a lifetime license holder. What does he do? Its a tough thing to think of. I am not sure what the answer is, but what ever it is, I would love it to be like Colorado was.

We may have to get rid of the Leftimers, but Utah is all LE. So why have 2 draws. Make 1 draw for all the units. That is one of my ideas. I do think that some areas need a cut in tags. Where we hunted, yes I saw lots of deer and several Shooter bucks, but man, there was SO DANG MANY PEOPLE!!!!

 

[deadibob]

>I have been following this post
>the last 2 days and
>watching the same 4-5 argue
>back and forth on who
>is right and who is
>wrong. From my opinion,
>you are all right and
>you are all wrong at
>the same time. I
>know, confusing. I see
>both sides and and have
>thought both ways several times.
> Right now, I am
>not sure what the answer
>is.
>
>BUT.......The last few years I have
>been rifle hunting for my
>kids and my wife (I
>usually just archery hunt).
>And this year I did
>dedicated so that I had
>a tag for the next
>3 years. I have seen
>some great bucks the last
>few years. It has
>been a blast trying to
>get my son or wife
>onto these deer. I
>have seen some of the
>best hunting this last year
>than I have seen in
>a LONG LONG time.
>So its hard for me
>to say the sky is
>falling. I had the
>chance of a lifetime on
>a buck of a lifetime
>this year and I CHOKED!!!
> 30" buck with several
>cheaters on both sides.
>I know where I will
>be this next year!!!
>
>I just got back from hunting
>Colorado 3rd season. I
>know it apples and oranges,
>but my thought is why
>cant we have the deer
>that they do? Dont
>give me the habitat excuse.
> I was not far
>from Utah. Looked the
>exact same as here, except
>there was gas and oil
>rigs all over. And
>that was where I saw
>the most deer. And
>some of the best deer.
> Infact, I shot my
>buck .25 miles from the
>gas plant. My buddies
>was shot 200 yards from
>the plant.
>
>As I talked to my friend
>(lifetime license holder) we thought
>about the same thing, why
>cant Utah be like this.
> We drove roads, never
>really had to hike and
>saw deer eveywhere. A
>roadhunters dream!!!! Shot my
>buck at 75 yards and
>my buddy shot his at
>30 yards. We passed
>several 4 points a day,
>yes, a day. NEVER
>would that happen in Utah.
> The residents take 3-4
>years to draw that tag.
> I would gladly do
>that to hunt that here
>in Utah. But my
>buddy asked, what about me
>(him) with a lifetime license
>holder. What does he
>do? Its a tough
>thing to think of.
>I am not sure what
>the answer is, but what
>ever it is, I would
>love it to be like
>Colorado was.
>
>We may have to get rid
>of the Leftimers, but Utah
>is all LE. So
>why have 2 draws.
>Make 1 draw for all
>the units. That is
>one of my ideas.
>I do think that some
>areas need a cut in
>tags. Where we hunted,
>yes I saw lots of
>deer and several Shooter bucks,
>but man, there was SO
>DANG MANY PEOPLE!!!!


What are the Leftimers we have to get rid of?

 

[Robiland]

>>I have been following this post
>>the last 2 days and
>>watching the same 4-5 argue
>>back and forth on who
>>is right and who is
>>wrong. From my opinion,
>>you are all right and
>>you are all wrong at
>>the same time. I
>>know, confusing. I see
>>both sides and and have
>>thought both ways several times.
>> Right now, I am
>>not sure what the answer
>>is.
>>
>>BUT.......The last few years I have
>>been rifle hunting for my
>>kids and my wife (I
>>usually just archery hunt).
>>And this year I did
>>dedicated so that I had
>>a tag for the next
>>3 years. I have seen
>>some great bucks the last
>>few years. It has
>>been a blast trying to
>>get my son or wife
>>onto these deer. I
>>have seen some of the
>>best hunting this last year
>>than I have seen in
>>a LONG LONG time.
>>So its hard for me
>>to say the sky is
>>falling. I had the
>>chance of a lifetime on
>>a buck of a lifetime
>>this year and I CHOKED!!!
>> 30" buck with several
>>cheaters on both sides.
>>I know where I will
>>be this next year!!!
>>
>>I just got back from hunting
>>Colorado 3rd season. I
>>know it apples and oranges,
>>but my thought is why
>>cant we have the deer
>>that they do? Dont
>>give me the habitat excuse.
>> I was not far
>>from Utah. Looked the
>>exact same as here, except
>>there was gas and oil
>>rigs all over. And
>>that was where I saw
>>the most deer. And
>>some of the best deer.
>> Infact, I shot my
>>buck .25 miles from the
>>gas plant. My buddies
>>was shot 200 yards from
>>the plant.
>>
>>As I talked to my friend
>>(lifetime license holder) we thought
>>about the same thing, why
>>cant Utah be like this.
>> We drove roads, never
>>really had to hike and
>>saw deer eveywhere. A
>>roadhunters dream!!!! Shot my
>>buck at 75 yards and
>>my buddy shot his at
>>30 yards. We passed
>>several 4 points a day,
>>yes, a day. NEVER
>>would that happen in Utah.
>> The residents take 3-4
>>years to draw that tag.
>> I would gladly do
>>that to hunt that here
>>in Utah. But my
>>buddy asked, what about me
>>(him) with a lifetime license
>>holder. What does he
>>do? Its a tough
>>thing to think of.
>>I am not sure what
>>the answer is, but what
>>ever it is, I would
>>love it to be like
>>Colorado was.
>>
>>We may have to get rid
>>of the Leftimers, but Utah
>>is all LE. So
>>why have 2 draws.
>>Make 1 draw for all
>>the units. That is
>>one of my ideas.
>>I do think that some
>>areas need a cut in
>>tags. Where we hunted,
>>yes I saw lots of
>>deer and several Shooter bucks,
>>but man, there was SO
>>DANG MANY PEOPLE!!!!
>
>
>What are the Leftimers we have
>to get rid of?

They are those that bought a lifetime licence a long time ago. There are over 1000 left of them. Guaranteed a general seasontag every year of choice.

 

[hossblur]

First, ill need the coordinates of where you were in Colorado or your useless to this conversation?

I have family in Colorado, he is struggling with how to keep his boy interested while being a spectator for years. I'm not that excited about whitetail cuz I don't hunt them, same issue here.

I'm not for mandated cuts, but voluntary is a whole different game. 1 drawing gives an answer to both sides, and if you could only draw LE or non LE points, it would help with point creep.

I love that idea personally




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.

 

[2_Point]

over four thousand of them left. rename everything limited entry and they can't get a general tag. problem solved.

 

[elkassassin]

The TARDS in TARDville that don't have LifeTime Tags sure are Sore on the Subject!

It's Kinda Like Saying:

Anybody in TARDville that Earns 20 Points should have to start over & Throw them first 20 Points away!

F'That!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Muley_73]

Bess,
If it was leverage point on the DWR keeping the status quo would still say F?That? Would you willing to give up a pisscutter chance every year for a decent tag every 4?

 

[deadibob]

The lifetime licensee contract guarantees a deer tag every year unless deer hunting is completely closed down statewide, which has happened before. Better look for your tag cuts elsewhere.

The socialists are now wanting to redistribute hunting tags!

 

[ridgetops]

>The lifetime licensee contract guarantees a
>deer tag every year unless
>deer hunting is completely closed
>down statewide, which has happened
>before. Better look for your
>tag cuts elsewhere.
>
>The socialists are now wanting to
>redistribute hunting tags!



There should be a cap of 15% per sub unit on lifetime tags, just like the ded. hunter tag is right now. A lifetimer could get a bonus point if they don't get their 1st choice, which would then put them ahead of others that already got their first choice the year before.

 

[elkassassin]

>Bess,
>If it was leverage point on
>the DWR keeping the status
>quo would still say F?That?
> Would you willing to
>give up a pisscutter chance
>every year for a decent
>tag every 4?

I Was Averaging a 1/2 Decent Buck every 4 Years until recently!

I do Not have a Lifetime License!

Just don't wanna see something taken away from Guys that for some of them was lucky enough to come up with the 500.00 for the license!

You start taking things like this away it would just be a start to Losing your Freedoms!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Muley_73]

Bess,
I don't think they should be taken away but I still think there are ways around it. I think somewhere along the lines of Ridgetops idea.

The truth is we just need to break the hard line that the DWR has on having all the units standardized. They have given in some lately with late muzzy seasons and the early rifle. I think we just need to push for some different approaches on units and see what kind of results we can get.

 

[deadibob]

>>Bess,
>>If it was leverage point on
>>the DWR keeping the status
>>quo would still say F?That?
>> Would you willing to
>>give up a pisscutter chance
>>every year for a decent
>>tag every 4?
>
>I Was Averaging a 1/2 Decent
>Buck every 4 Years until
>recently!
>
>I do Not have a Lifetime
>License!
>
>Just don't wanna see something taken
>away from Guys that for
>some of them was lucky
>enough to come up with
>the 500.00 for the license!
>
>
>You start taking things like this
>away it would just be
>a start to Losing your
>Freedoms!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!


For the record I do have a lifetime license. It wasn't luck, it was foresight. Most everyone that I knew who hunted at the time, I strongly encouraged them to buy one. Most laughed at the idea because you could still buy unlimited tags over the counter. I saw what was happening in other states and how hard it was in some of them to get a tag.

In early 1994 I was a full-time college student and part-time truck driver. I didn't have $500, but I had a new Stainless classic Winchester model 70 .338; I pawned that gun at Cedar Post Pawn in St. George to Jason Ray for $500 and went and bought my Lifetime license. It took a month or two to get my Winchester out of hock but I did.

It was the best $500 I ever spent and I plan on using that license for another 50 years and being the last man standing alive with one ;-) For the record, I just turned 47.

 

[Robiland]

>>>Bess,
>>>If it was leverage point on
>>>the DWR keeping the status
>>>quo would still say F?That?
>>> Would you willing to
>>>give up a pisscutter chance
>>>every year for a decent
>>>tag every 4?
>>
>>I Was Averaging a 1/2 Decent
>>Buck every 4 Years until
>>recently!
>>
>>I do Not have a Lifetime
>>License!
>>
>>Just don't wanna see something taken
>>away from Guys that for
>>some of them was lucky
>>enough to come up with
>>the 500.00 for the license!
>>
>>
>>You start taking things like this
>>away it would just be
>>a start to Losing your
>>Freedoms!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>
>For the record I do have
>a lifetime license. It wasn't
>luck, it was foresight. Most
>everyone that I knew who
>hunted at the time, I
>strongly encouraged them to buy
>one. Most laughed at the
>idea because you could still
>buy unlimited tags over the
>counter. I saw what was
>happening in other states and
>how hard it was in
>some of them to get
>a tag.
>
>In early 1994 I was a
>full-time college student and part-time
>truck driver. I didn't have
>$500, but I had a
>new Stainless classic Winchester model
>70 .338; I pawned that
>gun at Cedar Post Pawn
>in St. George to Jason
>Ray for $500 and went
>and bought my Lifetime license.
>It took a month or
>two to get my Winchester
>out of hock but I
>did.
>
>It was the best $500 I
>ever spent and I plan
>on using that license for
>another 50 years and being
>the last man standing alive
>with one ;-) For
>the record, I just turned
>47.


This is the problem we have right now with the lifetime licence holders. Its a "screw you" attitude. I bought it and now I HAVE TO HAVE IT EVERY YEAR! This selfish attitude is what is going to get us NO WHERE anytime soon.

So, on a side note, I just filled out my survey for colorado. It took me a whopping 45 seconds. I firmly believe Utah needs to have this also for every big game tag that is given. I asked about this a few years ago in a RAC meeting and was told its too hard for older people and too hard for the division to do. I called BS. If we had a mandatory survey for each hunt, we would have an actual , YES ACTUAL #'s on amount of deer harvested each year. Size as far as points per side, to see what is really happening. Number of days hunted. Area hunted.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Robi!

I Won't Argue with that!

If We Had the Whole/Total/Truth on the Book Cliffs Elk Herd including this year I Could Win Some Easy Money with Niller!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[deadibob]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-18 AT 03:06PM (MST)[p]>>>>Bess,
>>>>If it was leverage point on
>>>>the DWR keeping the status
>>>>quo would still say F?That?
>>>> Would you willing to
>>>>give up a pisscutter chance
>>>>every year for a decent
>>>>tag every 4?
>>>
>>>I Was Averaging a 1/2 Decent
>>>Buck every 4 Years until
>>>recently!
>>>
>>>I do Not have a Lifetime
>>>License!
>>>
>>>Just don't wanna see something taken
>>>away from Guys that for
>>>some of them was lucky
>>>enough to come up with
>>>the 500.00 for the license!
>>>
>>>
>>>You start taking things like this
>>>away it would just be
>>>a start to Losing your
>>>Freedoms!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know so many people in
>>>so many places
>>>They make allot of money but
>>>they got sad faces
>>>
>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>
>>For the record I do have
>>a lifetime license. It wasn't
>>luck, it was foresight. Most
>>everyone that I knew who
>>hunted at the time, I
>>strongly encouraged them to buy
>>one. Most laughed at the
>>idea because you could still
>>buy unlimited tags over the
>>counter. I saw what was
>>happening in other states and
>>how hard it was in
>>some of them to get
>>a tag.
>>
>>In early 1994 I was a
>>full-time college student and part-time
>>truck driver. I didn't have
>>$500, but I had a
>>new Stainless classic Winchester model
>>70 .338; I pawned that
>>gun at Cedar Post Pawn
>>in St. George to Jason
>>Ray for $500 and went
>>and bought my Lifetime license.
>>It took a month or
>>two to get my Winchester
>>out of hock but I
>>did.
>>
>>It was the best $500 I
>>ever spent and I plan
>>on using that license for
>>another 50 years and being
>>the last man standing alive
>>with one ;-) For
>>the record, I just turned
>>47.
>
>
>This is the problem we have
>right now with the lifetime
>licence holders. Its a
>"screw you" attitude. I
>bought it and now I
>HAVE TO HAVE IT EVERY
>YEAR! This selfish attitude
>is what is going to
>get us NO WHERE anytime
>soon.
>
>So, on a side note, I
>just filled out my survey
>for colorado. It took
>me a whopping 45 seconds.
> I firmly believe Utah
>needs to have this also
>for every big game tag
>that is given. I
>asked about this a few
>years ago in a RAC
>meeting and was told its
>too hard for older people
>and too hard for the
>division to do. I called
>BS. If we had
>a mandatory survey for each
>hunt, we would have an
>actual , YES ACTUAL #'s
>on amount of deer harvested
>each year. Size as
>far as points per side,
>to see what is really
>happening. Number of days
>hunted. Area hunted.


You have got to be kidding. There is no "SCREW YOU" attitude. Each and every deer tag a lifetime license holder receives has been bought and paid for well in advance. The DWR couldn't take our money fast enough. They came up with the program, not us. Anyone could have bought them at the time. Most people at the time thought it was a waste of money to purchase one. Utah isn't the only state that had or has a lifetime license option.

There are lots of things I missed out on in life, the Amazon or Apple IPO stock purchase. Bitcoin. Land purchases. Do I begrudge those that got in on those deals, no. Best of luck to them and move on. Lifetime license tags are a drop in the bucket, get over it you friggin' commies.

If it makes you feel better, I hunted one day this year and didn't harvest a buck. Some lifetime holders stay home and don't even hunt anymore, so it isn't much of an impact to overall harvest numbers.

 

[Tikka]

"This is the problem we have right now with the lifetime licence holders. Its a "screw you" attitude. I bought it and now I HAVE TO HAVE IT EVERY YEAR! This selfish attitude is what is going to get us NO WHERE anytime soon."

That's the most millennial post I've ever read on MM... LMAO!

 

[Robiland]

>
>"This is the problem we have
>right now with the lifetime
>licence holders. Its a "screw
>you" attitude. I bought it
>and now I HAVE TO
>HAVE IT EVERY YEAR! This
>selfish attitude is what is
>going to get us NO
>WHERE anytime soon."
>
>That's the most millennial post I've
>ever read on MM... LMAO!
>


TRUST ME, I wish I had bought the lifetime licence when I was in high school. I was getting ready to serve an LDS mission and thought to myself, Ill buy it when I get home. While I was gone, they stopped doing it. My loss.

Here is the thing. I have talked to only 2 LIFETIMER's and they both had the same responses when talking about this situation and changing the Utah system. They both replied, what about me? I am guaranteed a tag every year. And I get that. Wish that were me.

But as deadibob said about all the things he missed out on like investments. The thing is, you can still invest. You may win big or you may lose big or you may just get an average return. The investment on the Lifetime was great. You won big. But times have changed. Now that return on investment is slowing down, dwindling down to not much of a return or no return.

But my point of all this is if and ONLY IF, Utah changed the system to 1 deer draw since all of it LE anyways. There is no general season. Its all draws and no guarantees. If there was a change for the better of the deer and the system, EVERYONE would have to sacrifice something. But my friend that is a lifetimer said to me, "WHAT ABOUT ME"? Well, I dont know.

There needs to be some talk and discussion on what to do, and if there is any change, we have 1 year to figure that out when the 5 year plan comes to an end and we look for the next.

As I said before, I have had the best 3 years of hunting I have ever had lately. And I didnt even have a rifle tag or kill a deer. I helped my sons and wife try to kill a deer. We saw lots. We saw big bucks. We didnt kill shizzz. But we had fun.

 

[deadibob]

>>
>>"This is the problem we have
>>right now with the lifetime
>>licence holders. Its a "screw
>>you" attitude. I bought it
>>and now I HAVE TO
>>HAVE IT EVERY YEAR! This
>>selfish attitude is what is
>>going to get us NO
>>WHERE anytime soon."
>>
>>That's the most millennial post I've
>>ever read on MM... LMAO!
>>
>
>
>TRUST ME, I wish I had
>bought the lifetime licence when
>I was in high school.
> I was getting ready
>to serve an LDS mission
>and thought to myself, Ill
>buy it when I get
>home. While I was
>gone, they stopped doing it.
> My loss.
>
>Here is the thing. I
>have talked to only 2
>LIFETIMER's and they both had
>the same responses when talking
>about this situation and changing
>the Utah system. They
>both replied, what about me?
> I am guaranteed a
>tag every year. And
>I get that. Wish
>that were me.
>
>But as deadibob said about all
>the things he missed out
>on like investments. The
>thing is, you can still
>invest. You may win
>big or you may lose
>big or you may just
>get an average return.
>The investment on the Lifetime
>was great. You won
>big. But times have
>changed. Now that return
>on investment is slowing down,
>dwindling down to not much
>of a return or no
>return.
>
>But my point of all this
>is if and ONLY IF,
>Utah changed the system to
>1 deer draw since all
>of it LE anyways.
>There is no general season.
> Its all draws and
>no guarantees. If
>there was a change for
>the better of the deer
>and the system, EVERYONE would
>have to sacrifice something.
>But my friend that is
>a lifetimer said to me,
>"WHAT ABOUT ME"? Well,
>I dont know.
>
>There needs to be some talk
>and discussion on what to
>do, and if there is
>any change, we have 1
>year to figure that out
>when the 5 year plan
>comes to an end and
>we look for the next.
>
>
>As I said before, I have
>had the best 3 years
>of hunting I have ever
>had lately. And I
>didnt even have a rifle
>tag or kill a deer.
> I helped my sons
>and wife try to kill
>a deer. We saw
>lots. We saw big
>bucks. We didnt kill
>shizzz. But we had
>fun.

Lifetime hunters are guaranteed a tag, but not a tag of choice. I'm fine with that as long as it's fair across the board and they don't try to pull a fast one like putting all the lifers in some deer hunting purgatory. If everything went to one draw (L.E./general), list a number of preferred choices, like the draw is now. Even capping a percentage of tags for lifetime tags per unit, is an idea. Your buddy needs to quit whining "what about me" and so does everyone else.

One of these days, socialists are going to wake up with their throats cut. This country doesn't run on redistribution of wealth, no matter how many people are pushing for that.

 

[slamdunk]

Not that it would benefit much, but I wonder if there is a way to get accurate numbers on these "lifetime" deer tags and see how many of them are even active?
I work with two guy's who have them and neither of them even hunt.

 

[southernutahhunter]

Rob- I would like to know what unit you hunted in Colorado. I would be interested in hunting a unit like that, where you can see deer like you did.

As far as all of the recommendations for the Utah units. There has been lots of good suggestions, but how do we get the DWR to try some of them in these units.

One hunter challenged us to go to the rac meeting and voice our concerns. He said he was going, and was going to fight for an A and B unit on the Beaver. How did that go? Did anyone attend the rac meeting and here any discussion on this or other possible solutions. Or are we just talking to ourselves and nothing will ever happen? I have been to these meetings before and voiced my concerns, but has not seemed to get anywhere. They just go ahead and do there counts and claim the deer herd is doing great.

 

[why]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-18 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]don't have to worry about the book cliffs they have ruined it to tuff to find a 4 point deer or a 6 point bull any more .they have pretty much ruined the whole northeastern region .too many tags too many hunts . we call the books the spike factory . and the land of 2 points it was better when it was general season. all the small ##### got killed by meat hunters first of season then the rest could hunt .it is piss pore management here .general season elk is a city with no limit on cow tags .no elk left .to many deer tags . and books has quantity. and no quality and diamond mountain mafia .has it tied up.

 

[deadibob]

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-18
>AT 10:24?AM (MST)
>
>don't have to worry about the
>book cliffs they have ruined
>it to tuff to find
>a 4 point deer or
>a 6 point bull any
>more .they have pretty much
>ruined the whole northeastern region
>.too many tags too many
>hunts . we call the
>books the spike factory .
>and the land of 2
>points it was better when
>it was general season. all
>the small ##### got killed
>by meat hunters first of
>season then the rest could
>hunt .it is piss pore
>management here .general season elk
>is a city with no
>limit on cow tags .no
>elk left .to many deer
>tags . and books has
>quantity. and no quality
>and diamond mountain mafia .has
>it tied up.


Haven't you heard? Hunting in Utah is the greatest it's ever been, the herds are fine. If you can't find bucks everywhere, it's your fault and you are just a bad hunter ;-) Or so some here have said

 

[deadibob]

>Rob- I would like to know
>what unit you hunted in
>Colorado. I would be
>interested in hunting a unit
>like that, where you can
>see deer like you did.
>
>
>As far as all of the
>recommendations for the Utah units.
> There has been lots
>of good suggestions, but how
>do we get the DWR
>to try some of them
>in these units.
>
>One hunter challenged us to go
>to the rac meeting and
>voice our concerns. He
>said he was going, and
>was going to fight for
>an A and B unit
>on the Beaver. How did
>that go? Did anyone
>attend the rac meeting and
>here any discussion on this
>or other possible solutions.
>Or are we just talking
>to ourselves and nothing will
>ever happen? I have
>been to these meetings before
>and voiced my concerns, but
>has not seemed to get
>anywhere. They just go
>ahead and do there counts
>and claim the deer herd
>is doing great.

The RAC meetings are a dog and pony show to appease the public and make them think they have a voice. Anyone who has been to them knows this first hand. That is what this thread is about, unless there is a united voice backed by 1,000's; nothing will change.

 

[Muley_73]

Untrue

 

[deadibob]

>Untrue


Okay then, go to the RAC with your ideas, as a single voice. Let's see how far you get.

 

[elkassassin]

>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-18
>>AT 10:24?AM (MST)
>>
>>don't have to worry about the
>>book cliffs they have ruined
>>it to tuff to find
>>a 4 point deer or
>>a 6 point bull any
>>more .they have pretty much
>>ruined the whole northeastern region
>>.too many tags too many
>>hunts . we call the
>>books the spike factory .
>>and the land of 2
>>points it was better when
>>it was general season. all
>>the small ##### got killed
>>by meat hunters first of
>>season then the rest could
>>hunt .it is piss pore
>>management here .general season elk
>>is a city with no
>>limit on cow tags .no
>>elk left .to many deer
>>tags . and books has
>>quantity. and no quality
>>and diamond mountain mafia .has
>>it tied up.
>
>
>Haven't you heard? Hunting in Utah
>is the greatest it's ever
>been, the herds are fine.
>If you can't find bucks
>everywhere, it's your fault and
>you are just a bad
>hunter ;-) Or so some
>here have said

I Have become a PISS POOR Hunter I Guess!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[slamdunk]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-16-18 AT 05:53PM (MST)[p]Me too!
Guiding high dollar hunts for 26 years has taught me nothing.

 

[elkfromabove]

>Rob- I would like to know
>what unit you hunted in
>Colorado. I would be
>interested in hunting a unit
>like that, where you can
>see deer like you did.
>
>
>As far as all of the
>recommendations for the Utah units.
> There has been lots
>of good suggestions, but how
>do we get the DWR
>to try some of them
>in these units.
>
>One hunter challenged us to go
>to the rac meeting and
>voice our concerns. He
>said he was going, and
>was going to fight for
>an A and B unit
>on the Beaver. How did
>that go? Did anyone
>attend the rac meeting and
>here any discussion on this
>or other possible solutions.
>Or are we just talking
>to ourselves and nothing will
>ever happen? I have
>been to these meetings before
>and voiced my concerns, but
>has not seemed to get
>anywhere. They just go
>ahead and do there counts
>and claim the deer herd
>is doing great.

I was at the Southern RAC, but I left just before the CWMU numbers came up and nary a word about splitting or managing the Beaver unit or any other.