Utah Expo tag proposal from the UWC

M

Milton

Guest
The United Wildlife Cooperative has made a proposal to the UDWR addressing the funds created by the sale of all EXPO TAGS. The UWC wants to see these funds go towards budget shortfalls and the inevitable rising cost of tags. The money created from the expo tags is from the sale of a public resource, but is being pocketed privately.

The UWC sent a letter by registered mail to key members of the UDWR (Jim Karpowitz, Allen Clark, etc.) The Utah Attorney General's office (Marty Bushman) and Governor Herbert. All major media outlets were also notified with a press release. The UWC is still waiting for a response.
You can read the actual proposal letter below.

Go to www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org and find out how you can protect your right to hunt and fish, and the lifestyle you love!
Membership is FREE!


EXPO TAG PROPOSAL

March 30, 2011

To whom it may concern,


This letter is to apprise the recipient of an official request of the United Wildlife Cooperative.

Since it's inception, the UWC has seen an overwhelming influx of support from across the state of Utah, as well as several members of the media.

The board of directors of the UWC, hereby request the reallocation of funds from the proceeds generated by the 200 convention tags of the Western Hunting and Conservation expo. Under existing guidelines and statutes, the funds generated by these tags are currently unaccounted for.

The UWC suggests the new allocation as follows: 10% to the broker of said tags to cover overhead and to maintain incentive to maximize their value. 90% shall be allocated to the UDWR general fund and/or creation of a new appropriate fund to off set potential tag increases to Utah hunters.

The UWC is a proponent of the UDWR and the People of Utah; as such we recognize the imminent dilemma that will be faced by the division, due to the budget cuts of the early legislative session of 2011. Furthermore, the UWC sees as it's civic duty to inform and educate the public about potential changes in policies that will affect their ability to recreate, hunt and fish in our state. As a result of this, the UWC will be launching a powerful media campaign to make the people of Utah aware of the potential increases in license fees and tags and potentially, the unallocated funds generated by the aforementioned expo tags.

Again, as a proponent of the UDWR, we would like to see this change and subsequent media campaign enlighten the people of our state to the purity of the division and to once again reaffirm that the UDWR has the public?s interest at heart. We absolutely look forward to seeing the division and their image restored and the trust of the public regained.

The UWC would like to thank you for your attention regarding this matter and looks forward to your timely response.

Sincerely,


Tye Boulter,
President
United Wildlife Cooperative
[email protected]
 
While I am not from Utah and have no stake in this, I have heard most of the guys in here slam the Utah Dept. of Fish and Game. Seems they are as badly mismanaged as the "supportive" wildlife organizations, especially SFW; in particular. I don't care if they are paying people to be members, you have to be careful nowdays with these guys; which is worse the devil you know or the devil you don't? A few years back RMEF had a leadership change and they supported wolf re-introduction, thankfully they have shifted back; but still it goes to show that groups with the best intentions still have to be watched.
WVBOWAK
 
I hope this happens. AS LONG AS THE $$$ does NOT go to upper management/bonuses etc...

It better be for More officers in the field, projects on the ground things like that.

I do understand $$ increase for tags. IT happens! I will pay a little extra for tags as long as this $$$ goes to GOOD things for the DWR!!!
 
I want all the money to go to conservation purposes only.

Otherwise put the tags back in the draw.

Grizzly
 
i just want to comment and say i agree with your proposal 100%. those tags are the only reason sfw is even semi relavent. without them tags they are nothing and they have benefited from these tags for to long. it's past time that us regular guys have an orginazation where we can get organized and put an end to b.s. that has been going on for way to long. thanks to all who are involved with the uwc and good luck fighting the good fight.
 
as i understand it, those 200 convention tags don't generate any money for the dwr, the application fees go right into sfw's pocket, over a million bucks worth.
 
A million plus.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-11 AT 05:54PM (MST)[p]SFW still hasn't told where the money is going. They cannot even account for 1 cent of the money earned.
 
But you get a voucher and the lucky person has to go to the Fish and Game and pay the fees for the permit. That money goes to the DWR.
 
>But you get a voucher and
>the lucky person has to
>go to the Fish and
>Game and pay the fees
>for the permit. That
>money goes to the DWR.
>


We are talking about the 1,000,000 dollars that the DWR doesn't receive. Even SFW wont tell where they have spent 1,000,000 dollars. Maybe Don Peay made a down payment on a new house.
 
So this is what the mass' want?...a cheap tag in return for keeping the expo tags. I agree with Grizzly. Use it for Conservation or return the tags to the draw.
a20792b12a43280588e9ae_s.JPG
 
nice i am glad the uwc is letting the average hunter be heard.i am also curious to what the udwr has to say in return keep us posted
 
OK Help me understand what you are saying. There has to be a cost to all of this. The draw as well as rental of the Salt Palace. If there is that much profit in this then why is the DWR sending the application fees to Nevada and charging $10 when they could make millions charging $5 and doing it themselves. If it is that profitable then we should be screaming at the DWR for throwing money away, giving it to Nevada when there is millions to be made by the DWR.
 
The DWR had nothing to do with the 200 Tags going to the expo. You would be screaming to the wrong group of people.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-11 AT 08:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-11 AT 08:50?PM (MST)

>The DWR had nothing to do
>with the 200 Tags going
>to the expo. You would
>be screaming to the wrong
>group of people.


who awarded sfw the tags to make possible to draw then. you can not say landowners because we the public are the landowners of the units that are drawn.i do not get how you are saying the dwr has nothing to do with the tags. when you have to go to the dwr building to buy your tag after you have drawn. i think the issue here is a third party is profiting for being the middle man. when all they do is put some booths up and pimp out our public animals. without showing where the money has gone because it is in there pockets . when it is supposed to go back into our wildlife.it is not that hard to see
 
From what I understand "Expo" tags and "Conservation" tags are two totally different things.

I have no idea what happens to the money generated from the applications for the 200 expo tags given away in the draw at the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo in Febuary.

On the other hand, the proceeds from auctioned conservation tags (which add up to way more than 200 as current Utah law allows for up to 5% of the tags on a unit to be sold as conservation tags) are divided 3 ways. 10% of the money goes to the conservation organization (i.e. SFW, RMEF, MDF, etc) who sells the tag to cover overhead costs, 30% goes directly back the DWR to cover costs of habitat projects, wildlife survey flights, etc. That money isn't used to pay bonuses or salaries for DWR employees. The remaining 60% also has to be used for conservation purposes, but the conservation organization (i.e. SFW, RMEF, etc) gets to choose what project(s) it is spent on.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
 
>From what I understand "Expo" tags
>and "Conservation" tags are two
>totally different things.
>
>I have no idea what happens
>to the money generated from
>the applications for the 200
>expo tags given away in
>the draw at the Western
>Hunting and Conservation Expo in
>Febuary.
>
>On the other hand, the proceeds
>from auctioned conservation tags (which
>add up to way more
>than 200 as current Utah
>law allows for up to
>5% of the tags on
>a unit to be sold
>as conservation tags) are divided
>3 ways. 10% of
>the money goes to the
>conservation organization (i.e. SFW, RMEF,
>MDF, etc) who sells the
>tag to cover overhead costs,
>30% goes directly back the
>DWR to cover costs of
>habitat projects, wildlife survey flights,
>etc. That money isn't
>used to pay bonuses or
>salaries for DWR employees.
>The remaining 60% also has
>to be used for conservation
> purposes, but the conservation
>organization (i.e. SFW, RMEF, etc)
>gets to choose what project(s)
>it is spent on.
>
>Dax
>
>There is no such thing as
>a sure thing in trophy
>mule deer hunting.

does anyone have the total net income from the 200 tags.because i know alot of people who will spend $ 150 plus at that expo.then you take into account the 10 dollars a pop to get in with a discount by the way. and you would have to think that expo is a money pit.and there is definantly a reason that sfw is covering there paper trail.
 
Good on the UWC !

Correct---the Expo $cam tag$ and the Con$ervation tag$ are two different 'type tag$'.

The Expo ones have no accountability-----Good Faith....haha

The Con org ones have full accountability of 90% of the funds generated.

Good on the UWC !

Robb
 
Its clear to me with the responses you have on this forum people are just ignorant to the fact SFW is giving Utah the bone with these 200 tags.

I still cant believe people to this day think this money is going to wildlife.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
There is a cost to everything.....the fee to have a booth probably more than covers the cost of the of the Salt Palace Rental. The reason for Nevada running the draw is that a few years back a few too many DWR employees were drawing the best tags, so from pressure, they moved it out of state. Personally a good move, but it sure seems that we could do something in house.
As others have stated, Conservation and Expo tags are two different animals. The Conservation tags do generate some $$ for the state, but in my opinion the United Wildlife Cooperative really has it right!
WE all need to band together if this is going to change......
 
2Lumpy is out trying to figure out where in the hell SFW has spent 1,000,000 dollars that hasn't gone towards habitat. SFW hasn't listed 1 cent of this $1,000,000 on their website.

I think it's time for the law to force SFW to open up all their books to expose all their financial records.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 07:16PM (MST)[p]>Again as a proponent of the UDWR

all i need to hear, at this point in time, I'm not.....Unless something drastic happens nor will I support any organization that believe's the Division is on track for properly managing this state for 'the sportsman'.......

littlebeaver.jpg


a32_cleaners.jpg
 
The thought that people want to use the money that is going to conservation and use it to offset the cost of very affordable hunting permits is laughable.
Golfers pay as much for one round of golf at a average course as hunters do for one resident deer tag in Utah. A golf vacation to Vegas for 3 days will cost more than a non resident elk tag. Compared to any other outdoor sports hunting license costs are very affordable.
Utah has more habitat projects going on that most other Western States, more than Colorado and Wyoming for sure. 90% of conservation monies should go to habitat projects, 10% should go to the groups for brokering the permits. SFW, MDF, and RMEF do a good job of getting big bucks for these permits. If I have to give up a permit for anything I'm glad its for habitat, and I want it to bring the most money possible to limit the amount of permits given out and maximize the funds for these projects.
I also find it laughable that the auditors here at MM feel the need to audit the books of these groups that sell these permits and know where every last dollar goes. If we were all this concerned the mismanagement of monies from the federal government we'd really get something done. SFW has about 5 PDF files of monies spent on different conversation project. They also have an interesting pdf on salaries of Don, and Byron, vs those of other Conservations groups. I realize it is not a line item list of expenditures with the full report of every time Don stopped for a big gulp. If you want to know where the money is spent be a volunteer and ask to be in a leadership role. You?ll see where every dollar is spent. I also didn't see a line item expense reports for the NRA, and MDF on their websites. Where is the outrage?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 10:55PM (MST)[p]feduptwo:

There is no accounting for the convention tags. 200 tags were taken from Utah draw and given to SFW and MDF for the expo. NONE of the money from these tags is required to go to wildlife. NONE! This proposal is simply asking for the convention tags to be handled the same way as the Conservation tags. I have not seen a single accounting by either SFW or MDF as to the money generated from the EXPO tag sales.

What is wrong with that?
 
Feduptwo, thank you for demonstrating the very things that I believe the UWC is trying to expose. Obviously this is all flying over your head and you have miserably failed to see what this is all about.

1- These are not "conservation" tags, so the number of dollars earmarked for "conservation" is not 90%, it is 0%.

2- Do you really think the point is to save a few bucks on a tag? Not the case sir. BUT, do you think the people of Utah are going to take even an insignificant increase lying down if they are aware that the expo is being handed the equivalent of over $1,000,000 with NONE of it being earmarked for conservation or going back to wildlife in some way?

3- It seems to me that their letter agrees that they should be compensated 10% for what they do.

Keep up the defense, but know that there are quite a few people, a small portion of whom are affiliated with this UWC, that have put much dedication and time into uncovering a lot of things that certain folks would like to see remain in the dark.

Bottom line; if you actually think this money is being spent on conservation, Most of us know where the "laugh-ability" should be directed. And why on earth would you concede to any truth or even have a clue to these things, as you have demonstrated, as an SFW Wyoming board member? I think we should all give you a pass due to ignorance and naivety.

Here's an easy fix. Let's get Don on here and have him set everyone straight. Don, Please tell us that 90% is earmarked for conservation or anything else. Then this can all be done and over.
 
Well Milton I guess the truth is coming out, I thought the UWC would be standing for something instead it's clear your just opposing other groups. UWC simply equals anti-SFW. When will we get to see you bash the MDF or RMEF. This is all we need, a liberal media feeding so called conservation group. If this group is such a proponent of the DWR why are you not supporting their tag cuts mentioned in the Utah Forum? Maybe your just a proponent when it suits your agenda?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-11 AT 06:10AM (MST)[p]> The thought that people
>want to use the money
>that is going to conservation
>and use it to offset
>the cost of very affordable
>hunting permits is laughable.
> Golfers pay as much
>for one round of golf
>at a average course as
>hunters do for one resident
>deer tag in Utah.
>A golf vacation to Vegas
>for 3 days will cost
>more than a non resident
>elk tag. Compared to
>any other outdoor sports hunting
>license costs are very affordable.
>
> Utah has more habitat
>projects going on that most
>other Western States, more than
>Colorado and Wyoming for sure.
> 90% of conservation monies
>should go to habitat projects,
>10% should go to the
>groups for brokering the permits.
> SFW, MDF, and RMEF
>do a good job of
>getting big bucks for these
>permits. If I have
>to give up a permit
>for anything I'm glad its
>for habitat, and I want
>it to bring the most
>money possible to limit the
>amount of permits given out
>and maximize the funds for
>these projects.
> I also
>find it laughable that the
>auditors here at MM feel
>the need to audit the
>books of these groups that
>sell these permits and know
>where every last dollar goes.
> If we were all
>this concerned the mismanagement of
>monies from the federal government
>we'd really get something done.
> SFW has about
>5 PDF files of monies
>spent on different conversation project.
> They also have an
>interesting pdf on salaries of
>Don, and Byron, vs those
>of other Conservations groups.
> I realize it is
>not a line item list
>of expenditures with the full
>report of every time Don
>stopped for a big gulp.
> If you want to
>know where the money is
>spent be a volunteer and
>ask to be in a
>leadership role. You?ll see
>where every dollar is spent.
> I also didn't see
>a line item expense reports
>for the NRA, and MDF
>on their websites. Where
>is the outrage?

what does golfing have to do with hunting.
a golf course owner is in business to make huge profits of their courses like the sfw.the udwr is a service provided by the government for the public.and the mdf and rmef are not as crooked and money hungry as sfw.they are not single handidly trying to decide what is best for the average hunter.without any input from the average hunters all of the sudden all of the sfw board members are qualified biologists.and choose want they want to hear from the real biologist and ignore the rest
 
i don't see uwc as anti-sfw at all. there is however some big issues that they disagree on but i'm sure there are some that they do agree on. i would be interested to know from you sfw members if you as a membership ever get polled on these important issues such as wolf issues and option 2 and things like that or are you simply pawns that they use for membership fees and a number to throw out that can use to say how many people they have behind em. i do hope they use the majority of the members ideas and not just the top few in leadership positions to make all the decisions. i signed up for uwc cause i feel they are for the average everyday hunter. however, i hope the poll the membership often on important issues or i will stop supporting them as well.
 
The great thing about living in this country is we have the ability and the freedom to question things we don't like or disagree with.

I have no problem with UWC asking questions and taking a stand for what they feel is wrong. We are all entitled to our own opinions and beliefs.

One thing of great importance in all of this tho is making sure we are stating fact and not basing our actions on hearsay & rumor's.

As I have read through these post, there is a lot of speculation and inaccurate information being thrown out as gospel truth.

1- 200 Expo Tags

The 200 Expo tags have never generated over a million dollars. To my knowledge the highest dollar amount that has been raised in application fee's in one year is around nine hundred thousand.In the beginning this money was split three ways, WSF, MDF & SFW. Now it is only MDF and SFW with WSF leaving and going back to Reno.
Keep in mind that RMEF and NWTF were asked to participate in the Expo and choose not too!
So in its best year each group would have grossed $300,000 off of the application fee's. This does not take into consideration the cost associated with hosting these permits.

2- Where does the money go?

I was not at the original meeting when these tags were approved to be drawn at the Expo versus Fallon Nevada. It is my understanding that no stipulation or prerec's were given to the groups as to where the proceeds (Application Fee's) could be spent.

Remember the only money that MDF,SFW & WSF made was application fee's. The cost of the license still goes back to the state. Really no different than what the state pays to Fallon Nevada to host the general draw
We can go through the pro's and con's to this but in my mind the pro's out way the con's.

Do these groups benefit from hosting these permits? You bet we do. Does Utah benefit from having these groups around? Ask Jim Karpowitz. These groups are very important to this states wildlife. To say otherwise is not looking with both eye's open.

Does Fallon Nevada do anything for Utah's Wildlife? Don't think so. Why not mandate that a portion of their application fee has to go into conservation? There is a difference between what is paid to Fallon and what is paid to SFW & MDF. This money is being spent for the benefit of wildlife in one way or another.

Where does the money go? As for SFW I can tell you that money has been put toward County Bounty, Wolf Battle, Habitat, Winter Feed, Hunts for Hero's, Overhead etc. It did not buy Don a new house and it does not get handed out as a bonus! Never has and never will.

It all goes toward our mission statement.
Yes this is a business. The work that is performed on a daily basis by the staff of SFW is working toward the betterment of Utah's wildlife.
Some of you may disagree and you are entitled to your opinion.

3- Don's Role

Don is a paid consultant/Founder of SFW. He cannot sign a check. SFW is ran by the Executive Board made up of Ryan Foutz and Byron Bateman. They over see and run SFW on a daily basis. The only people that can sign checks are myself, Byron Bateman and Ryan Foutz. Even if Don wanted the money he does not have access to it.

4- SFW's Books

We have taken steps toward making SFW more transparent. To my knowledge the information we have posted on our website is comparable with other conservation groups.We just went through a successful IRS audit. I think if there was anything illegal going on the IRS would have shut us down.
We have always stated if you have a question and want to see SFW's book's call Byron and come by and look for yourself it is public knowledge.

5- Expo Draw Odds

About a year ago SFW meet with about 35 of you in a meeting. It was asked for us to provide the Specie Specific draw odds of the Expo Tags. We agreed we would if MDF gave us their approval. MDF did not grant us their permission!

Speaking from a personal stand point about this meeting it was not what I had hoped for. I would have rather it been a question and answer meeting. You ask we answer.

I think both sides would have benefited more from the meeting this way. Just my opinion.

Someone who did attend the meeting did take us up on the offer to attend the Expo tag draw to see how it worked. I think he could vouch for the validity of the process and it not being rigid!

6- SFW a Bunch of Crooks

This is offensive to me not only from a personal stand point but also to generalize the whole organization as this is wrong. I would challenge anyone to find two more credible people to run a business than Byron Bateman & Ryan Foutz not to mention several of our chapter leaders and members.
You may not agree on what position they take on a certain issue, but as far as Honesty and Integrity you will be hard pressed to find anyone who can honestly say or prove otherwise!


Yes I am a paid employee of SFW. On a previous thread I posted what I make nothing has changed since then. Yes we are paid good for what we do,(As are other individuals with different Org's) but contrary to popular belief no one is getting rich because of their involvement with SFW!

Like many of of you we are passionate about Utah's wildlife and hunting & Fishing. You may not agree with our position and if you feel we are wrong get involved with who ever or whatever and work to get it changed.

Like Uncle Ted stated "If you are not involved you are part of the problem"


Troy Justensen
 
Troy you are spinning and sly dogging the question.

The fact is that the State of Utah owns these tags. SFW, RMEF, MDF, NWTF and FNAWS promised that a "Significant
Portion" of these funds would go back on the ground. During the RAC process that year we as sportsmen tried to pin the groups down to committing a measly 50% going back to wildlife and couldn't get that done. Do ya see where the heartburn is coming from??

Now I don't believe that anybody involved with any of these groups is a crook. What I would have a problem with is using these funds to lobby the Legislature in the western states as well as back in Washington to further the Limited Opportunity High Success hunt philosophy.

I would hate to find out that these monies were used to buy airfare to send Don and Benson back to Washington to lobby against Simpson Tester. I would hate to find out these monies were used to lobby anyone concerning the new members of the wildlife Board selection process in Utah.

If it's all good bring it out in the light. Provide the data for an official audit from day one of the first expo.






2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-11 AT 04:55PM (MST)[p]>The great thing about living in
>this country is we have
>the ability and the freedom
>to question things we don't
>like or disagree with.
>
>I have no problem with UWC
>asking questions and taking a
>stand for what they feel
>is wrong. We are all
>entitled to our own opinions
>and beliefs.
>
>One thing of great importance in
>all of this tho is
>making sure we are stating
>fact and not basing our
>actions on hearsay & rumor's.
>
>
>As I have read through these
>post, there is a lot
>of speculation and inaccurate information
>being thrown out as gospel
>truth.
>
>1- 200 Expo Tags
>
>The 200 Expo tags have never
>generated over a million dollars.
>To my knowledge the highest
>dollar amount that has been
>raised in application fee's in
>one year is around nine
>hundred thousand.In the beginning this
>money was split three ways,
>WSF, MDF & SFW. Now
>it is only MDF and
>SFW with WSF leaving and
>going back to Reno.
>Keep in mind that RMEF and
>NWTF were asked to participate
>in the Expo and choose
>not too!
>So in its best year each
>group would have grossed $300,000
>off of the application fee's.
>This does not take into
>consideration the cost associated with
>hosting these permits.
>
>2- Where does the money go?
>
>
>I was not at the original
>meeting when these tags were
>approved to be drawn at
>the Expo versus Fallon Nevada.
>It is my understanding that
>no stipulation or prerec's were
>given to the groups as
>to where the proceeds (Application
>Fee's) could be spent.
>
>Remember the only money that MDF,SFW
>& WSF made was application
>fee's. The cost of the
>license still goes back to
>the state. Really no different
>than what the state pays
>to Fallon Nevada to host
>the general draw
>We can go through the pro's
>and con's to this but
>in my mind the pro's
>out way the con's.
>
>Do these groups benefit from hosting
>these permits? You bet we
>do. Does Utah benefit from
>having these groups around? Ask
>Jim Karpowitz. These groups are
>very important to this states
>wildlife. To say otherwise is
>not looking with both eye's
>open.
>
>Does Fallon Nevada do anything for
>Utah's Wildlife? Don't think so.
>Why not mandate that a
>portion of their application fee
>has to go into conservation?
>There is a difference between
>what is paid to Fallon
>and what is paid to
>SFW & MDF. This money
>is being spent for the
>benefit of wildlife in one
>way or another.
>
> Where does the money go?
>As for SFW I can
>tell you that money has
>been put toward County Bounty,
>Wolf Battle, Habitat, Winter Feed,
>Hunts for Hero's, Overhead etc.
>It did not buy Don
>a new house and it
>does not get handed out
>as a bonus! Never has
>and never will.
>
> It all goes toward our
>mission statement.
>Yes this is a business. The
>work that is performed on
>a daily basis by the
>staff of SFW is working
>toward the betterment of Utah's
>wildlife.
>Some of you may disagree and
>you are entitled to your
>opinion.
>
>3- Don's Role
>
>Don is a paid consultant/Founder of
>SFW. He cannot sign a
>check. SFW is ran by
>the Executive Board made up
>of Ryan Foutz and Byron
>Bateman. They over see and
>run SFW on a daily
>basis. The only people that
>can sign checks are myself,
>Byron Bateman and Ryan Foutz.
>Even if Don wanted the
>money he does not have
>access to it.
>
>4- SFW's Books
>
>We have taken steps toward making
>SFW more transparent. To my
>knowledge the information we have
>posted on our website is
>comparable with other conservation groups.We
>just went through a successful
>IRS audit. I think if
>there was anything illegal going
>on the IRS would have
>shut us down.
>We have always stated if you
>have a question and want
>to see SFW's book's call
>Byron and come by and
>look for yourself it is
>public knowledge.
>
>5- Expo Draw Odds
>
>About a year ago SFW meet
>with about 35 of you
>in a meeting. It was
>asked for us to provide
>the Specie Specific draw odds
>of the Expo Tags. We
>agreed we would if MDF
>gave us their approval. MDF
>did not grant us their
>permission!
>
>Speaking from a personal stand point
>about this meeting it was
>not what I had hoped
>for. I would have rather
>it been a question and
>answer meeting. You ask we
>answer.
>
>I think both sides would have
>benefited more from the meeting
>this way. Just my opinion.
>
>
>Someone who did attend the meeting
>did take us up on
>the offer to attend the
>Expo tag draw to see
>how it worked. I think
>he could vouch for the
>validity of the process and
>it not being rigid!
>
>6- SFW a Bunch of Crooks
>
>
>This is offensive to me not
>only from a personal stand
>point but also to generalize
>the whole organization as this
>is wrong. I would challenge
>anyone to find two more
>credible people to run a
>business than Byron Bateman &
>Ryan Foutz not to mention
>several of our chapter leaders
>and members.
>You may not agree on what
>position they take on a
>certain issue, but as far
>as Honesty and Integrity you
>will be hard pressed to
>find anyone who can honestly
>say or prove otherwise!
>
>
>Yes I am a paid employee
>of SFW. On a previous
>thread I posted what I
>make nothing has changed since
>then. Yes we are paid
>good for what we do,(As
>are other individuals with different
>Org's) but contrary to popular
>belief no one is getting
>rich because of their involvement
>with SFW!
>
>Like many of of you we
>are passionate about Utah's wildlife
>and hunting & Fishing. You
>may not agree with our
>position and if you feel
>we are wrong get involved
>with who ever or whatever
>and work to get it
>changed.
>
>Like Uncle Ted stated "If you
>are not involved you are
>part of the problem"
>
>
>Troy Justensen
>
>


good to hear from a sfw board member.my two cents on the matter is that you guys are starting to get a horrible reputation for a reason. everybody is not just jealous and envious of the board members.you guys have been blinded buy the light and have gotten greedy. you guys have turned your backs on the average hunter. the very same people who helped get the organazation started. now it is all about who has the deepest check book.i dont want to seam to harsh because i think you guys had good intentions. but i used to be a proud member of sfw now it would be embarassing to have that decal on the back of my truck.so i will keep supporting the rmef mdf and now the uwc
 
+1. I for one am Proud to not be a SFW member since 2002. I bought into Dons hype and horse shidt, but soon the koolaide wore off!
 
I don't really have a dog in this fight, aside from being an avid hunter residing in Utah!

I think Troy should be applauded for his response. I think Don and SFW should be acknowldeged for the meeting they held in SLC last year. Have they changed their philosphy or business model as a result? No, not that I can see.

What I learned last year was the Utah law allows both SFW and MDF to take the money they make on these tag application fees and account for it as general revenue. Just like the revenue they make from banquets, or the generous donations they receive from countless concerned sportmen and corporations. Once the money is in the general account, there is no way to say which dollar paid for a proscribed burn, or which dollar paid for a tank of gas to go meet with landowners over bison reintroduction into the book cliffs. Over even which dollar paid for a flight to D.C. to meet with legistlative leaders. According to the IRS these all count as "program expenses" and are furthering the mission of SFW. The exact same thing can be said about the money MDF makes from these tag sales. Sort of like despoiting my regular paycheck into my bank account, as well as the few hundred dollars I made from selling an old gun. Once it is in the bank, you can't tell one dollar from another. Now I may tell my wife that I am using the money from selling that one old gun for the next "three" toys I purchased, regardless of their price, but there really is no way to tell the dollars apart!

I am the MM member who attended the expo tag drawing last year, and have already posted that nothing seemed out of order. I've also posted that I have been an on again / off again member of SFW, simply becuase I don't agree with many of their policy positions. I encourage everyone to really find out where this and other conservation groups stand on the issues. Myself, I am a very strong supporter of RMEF, B+C, NRA, and a somewhat less enthusiastic supporter of MDF. SFW sits on the bubble for me, and really doesn't turn my crank. My own investigations led me to avoid SCI like the plaque. Do you own homework and make your own decision.

While it is entertaining to read these threads and see the vitriol and jealousy around what Don and SFW has become, I am convinced there is nothing "crooked" or illegal with SFW activities. Yes, I think it is wrong to have some 560+ tags removed from the public drawings, and sold at auction. The law allowing this was changed by the legislature, however, not SFW. (And yes, they lobbied for this law change.) Every other conservation group in Utah benefits from these tag sales, albeit to a lesser extent than SFW. I don't condemn RMEF because they participate in these same tag sales.

I realize SFW is the big dog in Utah hunting politics, and am often concerned about the direction they are taking our hunting heritage. But I just don't see any reason to turn this into personal attacks as opposed to policy disputes. I'm sure several will tell me I am just naive.:)

Bill
 
There was a time i was for sfw also. My thinking was if your not for a hunting org then you might as well be fof pita. I used to be on these forums backing sfw. I used to argue with my hunting buds the value of sfw. NOT ANY MORE!
I've seen what they are about and they are not only a threat to my hunting rights but they have pretty much screwed my kids hunting futures with their oil le rut hunts.



Ihttp://img1.jurko.net/avatar_2528.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-11 AT 07:52PM (MST)[p]I was a huge supporter of SFW until I opened my eyes and saw what they are really about. SFW is more worried about the MONEY they can raise from tags than average joe hunters. It's a shame that SFW got these 200 expo tags in the first place and if SFW can get 200 tags then why can't the ISE have 200 tags to sell at their expo. Or if any other group wanted 200 tags to sell at their expo. What made SFW so special?

SFW started out with good intentions until they saw they could get rich off of tags. I would like to see SFW raise money other ways. SFW has gotten greedy and they are no longer the SFW that first started years ago.

SFW receives 1,000,000 dollars from the expo and Troy if SFW is such an honest group then why haven't they said where they have spent 1,000,000 dollars because it isn't on wildlife??????

These 200 tags were taken from the public and the public has the right to know where the money is spent.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-11 AT 08:07PM (MST)[p]"It all goes toward our mission statement.
Yes this is a business. The work that is performed on a daily basis by the staff of SFW is working toward the betterment of Utah's wildlife.
Some of you may disagree and you are entitled to your opinion."

Troy many people are getting tired of this "business" called SFW. They are much like PETA in a lot of ways because they limit hunting so that SFW can line their pockets with more money. It's a business so of course your always going to keep the number of mature elk permits low to make the permits more valuable. Business like to make money and if more elk permits are issued then the elk quality goes down and SFW loses money.

You say SFW is working toward the betterment of Utah's wildlife? For whom? Simple answer, people who buy these conservation tags. It's a win/win situation. You make more money and guys buy a mature elk tag so they can kill a monster bull without playing the draw odds game.

SFW doesn't have any business for the average joe hunter because the average joe hunter doesn't bring in a lot of money for SFW.
 
can anyone who is on this forum honestly remember a time in utah when hunting in general was better than it is now? how many elk tags were their in 1995? what about sheep ,goats, moose,was hunting better before sfw ? just something to think about.if anyone has a better way i would love to hear it.
 
Elite Horn hunter,

There is about 900k on the SFW website that was spent for habitat projects for 2010?
Do you think the projects listed on their website were really wildlife projects? Maybe the project names are intricate code for CIA black ops in Libya, and the Ivory cost? Troy can you speak to these allegations because we want to get to the bottom of where the money went, damnit. Is the project list code for money spent on unauthorized foreign wars?
On a more serious note the only people that should be pissed about expo tags are non-residents as a majority of expo tags came out of the non resident pools. Thats why they give non residents a chance to draw 5 tags seperate from the residents of Utah.
Has SFW made mistakes? yep, but so has every other conservation group. SFW, MDF, RMEF, SCI, and the rest of them have done way more good than harm. If you don't support the policy of these groups don't support their events, or become members. If you want to change how the ship is steered, volunteer. Eventually you'll have the chance to guide the direction its steered. For the record I'm currently not a member of SFW; I'm not on the payroll.
Divided and conquered, thanks to elite horn hunter and his cronies, sportsmen are living the dream.
 
Feduptwo, I still see you're clueless on the difference between conservation tags and Convention tags/Expo tags.

The Convention tags/expo tags aren't being spent on wildlife and SFW hasn't told where they are spending this money.
 
>can anyone who is on this
>forum honestly remember a time
>in utah when hunting in
>general was better than it
>is now? how many elk
>tags were their in 1995?
>what about sheep ,goats, moose,was
>hunting better before sfw ?
>just something to think about.if
>anyone has a better way
>i would love to hear
>it.


you think sfw deserves all of the credit no way. and like i said they are not even the same organazation anymore they started with good intentions.and oh yeah if you ask most of them our elk hunting sucks these days because there is not a 400" bull behind every tree.
 
The only thing that's laughable here is Feduptwo.

"The expo tags come out of the non-resident pool", Oh really? You don't need to post on this topic anymore, because now we all know you don't know what you're talking about.
 
I find it absolutely helarious in the fact that the lone $FW supporter used a golf vacation as an analogy to make a point. I wonder how much of the $FW general fund is spent on golf rounds to "conduct" business on the golf course.

This is exactly the problem I have with $FW, they are using the average Utah hunter in the form of collecting application fees from a public resource, to push an agenda that benefits only richest 5% of hunters.

I really like what I am seeing in UWC so far and I signed up in support of their cause. However, I am going to give them a little bit of time before I give them any money. My only hesitation with UWC is the fact that they are offering a hunt give away if you donate money. The UWC mission statement alone would be enough incentive for me to donate money. The fact that they are giving away a hunt tells me they may be just be trying to get in the tag business themselves and all this anti-$fw stuff is just so they can have spot at the trough.
 
i have to agree with ya gorilla. i will support uwc and contribute and donate as long as they stick to their mission statement. the second they even try to sniff a tag, any kind of tag i will be their loudest critic. for now i will just remain cautiously optomistic. i get so sick of people trying to justify sfw by stating that they do more good than harm. really? is that what we're down to? i'm sorry i want more than that. in the mean time we continue to lose opportunity and our herds continue to decline. all of this is happening on their watch and if its not their fault they surely havent done anything to stop it. i could give a rats ass less about elk and sheep and moose or anything else. thats all fine and dandy. but what is being done for the DEER? sorry but i am just not seeing the reward for all that has been given to them and if it continues they need to just go. go find another state or something to work on. we're sick of it.
 
Coondog:

Are you trying to say that Utah deer hunting is the best it has ever been? If SFW gets all the credit for the Elk, Sheep, goats and Moose than they also have to take credit for situation the deer herd is in.

This thread is simply proposing amending the Convention tags to match the Conservation tags. I like the idea of a mandate that some of the money from the Convention tags goes to wildlife. What is wrong with the idea of mandating that X% of money raised from the Convention tags to be guaranteed to go to Utah wildlife?
 
You will never see UWC taking tags from the public. The bear hunt is donated by an outfitter, not a donation from the state.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-11 AT 11:55AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-11 AT 11:51?AM (MST)

Kudos to you guys for being skeptical, I'd do the same were I in your shoes.

The UWC is giving away a bear hunt that was offered to us by a member who joined because he believes in our mission as well. For now, we are only looking to recuperate the money that the board members have donated to the cause for promotion, website etc.

UWC will NOT be jumping on the conservation tag wagon. We feel that essentially taking money from 100% of the public to push an agenda representative of a portion of the population is completely contrary to our mission.

Do we need a bit of money to operate effectively? Yes, but we refuse to have the public's money forced to foster a private agenda. If you believe in us and support us, please donate. If you don't, that is completely your prerogative and I urge you to get with a group that is more closely aligned with your philosophies and ideals. Apathy is the bigger problem here.

The UWC wasn't created to be 'against' SFW, it was created to represent a large segment that aren't being represented, nothing more. SFW is good at what they do and represents whom they do it for (The 5% gorilla eluded to) very well. The UWC exists as another choice and to speak for a completely different segment and philosophy.
 
400

I don't have a problem with money from convention tags going into wildlife . thats where it should go . my problem is people throwing out numbers with no facts to back it up . the deer hunting in utah sucks and it isn't going to get any better until some serious changes are made! but the same people on this thread bitching about sfw are the same ones who don't want to do anything to help the deer!
 
>>can anyone who is on this
>>forum honestly remember a time
>>in utah when hunting in
>>general was better than it
>>is now? how many elk
>>tags were their in 1995?
>>what about sheep ,goats, moose,was
>>hunting better before sfw ?
>>just something to think about.if
>>anyone has a better way
>>i would love to hear
>>it.
>
>
>you think sfw deserves all of
>the credit no way. and
>like i said they are
>not even the same organazation
>anymore they started with good
>intentions.and oh yeah if you
>ask most of them our
>elk hunting sucks these days
>because there is not a
>400" bull behind every tree.
>

desert



i'm not saying sfw deserves all the credit . i think they and other groups have done alot of good in this state . i just get sick of all the hate. do you think hunting is better or worse than it was before sfw? i have been hunting in utah for about 25 years and in my own opinion it is better now than anytime i can remember .
 
I know two things...

1. If you go to a hunting convention and say the name "Don Payday" everybody will know who you are talking about.

2. All stereotypes are based on some fact.

Just saying...

Grizzly
 
theworst thing sfw has done is pinned hunters against each other.with their it's our way or the highway philosphy.they do not give a crap what the general public wants.all they want is their money.and i guarantee PETA and the antihunters are just loving what sfw is doing
 
Thanks justr,
Looks like they're an all Utah group,Seems like a pretty good outfit from the little i read, they have the look and feel of Back country hunters and anglers,wonder if there's any relation?
 
in my humble opinion, the very essence of hunting took a nasty turn many years ago when the success of a hunt began to be measured by inches and not the experience itself. it took over in the fishing world as well. manufacturers of hunting and fishing products saw dollar signs and began to produce products they could tout as being the "one thing" that could bring home the "trophy", which was always depicted by pictures of giant antlers and heavy large fish.

outdoor magazines jumped on the band wagon and produced articles on how to hunt giant bucks, elk, or what ever big game and fish. money was to be made by all. kill a new record animal and watch the dollars start to pile up. invent a better gun, scope, binoculars or cartridge to improve the odds of killing that monster, and the sales went through the roof. hunting and fishing organizations jumped on as well.

funny thing is, there was still a very large segment of the hunting and fishing world (and still is to this day) that really didn't care about how big the critter or fish was: they simply wanted to go hunting and fishing. if they happened to kill a large mature animal, great. if they didn't, great. the problem began when those who chose to make their hunts about the inches made the most noise. the old adage is still true: the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

fish and game agencies began a shift in how they managed big game, and were/are continually lobbied to improve the "quality" of the herds, so larger and larger animals could be grown. areas of states were set aside to produce those "trophies" and it didn't take long before more and more public areas became limited as to how many could hunt there. those with the cash could now have their cake and eat it too. with mule deer herds taking a nose dive throughout the west, tags became a precious commodity, and again, money reared it's evil head again. fish and game agencies needed money to replace the lost revenue of less licenses and tags being sold, so they listened to the hunting orgs and began selling the "trophy" tags for ungodly amounts of cash.

sfw, mdf, etc didn't invent this cancer, but they sure don't want to look for a cure either. as hunters i think many, too many, of us have lost our way. we are becoming our own downfall. we are pitted against one another to the point of utter lunacy. it's a sad, sad time.

the one constant in life is change. how we hunters and fisherman choose to focus that change will determine the fate of our beloved heritage. i for one hope it goes down the path that will rekindle what once was, and the success of the hunt is not measured by inches and weights, but by the deep emotional connections and experiences encountered when we walk the trails carved by hoof and claw.
 
If we all just jump in with UWC.And ship SFW out of this,or atleast get some new leadership in SFW then we might have a chance to do something with our wildlife.
 
>If we all just jump in
>with UWC.And ship SFW out
>of this,or atleast get some
>new leadership in SFW then
>we might have a chance
>to do something with our
>wildlife.


That's the most rediculous thing I've read; UWC wants what SFW has, all the political lobbying power so they and their members are the decision makers and influencers. They want to walk into all the RAC and board meeting and get their own ways. When/if this ever happens which I doubt we will all be on MM complaining about how much power UWC has and how we should oust them. The only difference is UWC's stance of not participating in the conservation permit sales. I'll bet though that these service projects that they are participating in with the UWDR sure could be funded with the same monies they despise.
 
>>If we all just jump in
>>with UWC.And ship SFW out
>>of this,or atleast get some
>>new leadership in SFW then
>>we might have a chance
>>to do something with our
>>wildlife.
>
>
>That's the most rediculous thing I've
>read; UWC wants what SFW
>has, all the political lobbying
>power so they and their
>members are the decision makers
>and influencers. They want to
>walk into all the RAC
>and board meeting and get
>their own ways. When/if this
>ever happens which I doubt
>we will all be on
>MM complaining about how much
>power UWC has and how
>we should oust them.
>The only difference is UWC's
>stance of not participating in
>the conservation permit sales.
>I'll bet though that these
>service projects that they are
>participating in with the UWDR
>sure could be funded with
>the same monies they despise.
>

They're called CONVENTION permits. Do any of these pro SFW kool-aid drinking Utahans even have a clue. This guy doesn't know the difference between Convention permits and Conservation permits and Twofedup thinks the Convention permits come from the non-resident pool. I don't even live in Utah and know the difference. BTW, it sounds to me the only reason UWC was formed is so the 95% of the people in Utah that SFW does't care about, has a voice in what goes on.
 
+2 desert!!! SFW was awesome in the beginning, but now it simply feels like the average joe is not in the sights, they are catering to the guys with tons of cash. Some will say we are just jelous, but its not about jelousy its about keeping the sport alive, and the sport does NOT have to be about selling tags for hundreds of thousands of dollars!! Hell sake when the state first actioned tags off and they went for as high as they did, they saw dollar signs, and thats why we are where we are.. there is no going back guys, SFW F'd our love of hunting for ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
>can anyone who is on this
>forum honestly remember a time
>in utah when hunting in
>general was better than it
>is now? how many elk
>tags were their in 1995?
>what about sheep ,goats, moose,was
>hunting better before sfw ?
>just something to think about.if
>anyone has a better way
>i would love to hear
>it.


Are you 12? First, a brief history lesson. Yeah, there are more elk today. HOWEVER, and I will use my unit as an example, the Manti. Roughly 25 years ago(no SFW wasn't around) the DWR turned the Manti into a spike unit. Like an explosion the elk herd took off, becoming at one time one or two years away from Pahvant status. THEN, the DWR started giving out tags like candy(supported by the conservation groups ie, SFW), taking it to what it is today a 5yr old unit.
Second, ask your dad or grandpa about deer hunting in the 60's, 70's and some of the 80's, enough said.
Moose tags on my unit the north slope seem to be going the wrong way.
So that leaves sheep, curious, what has SFW done to stop the massive die off of sheep due to disease?

NOW, lets discusss today. The Manti, Nebo, and Wasatch are being sacraficed(tags given to the groups) in order to create habitat on the Pahvant, Monroe, Henrys. Why? For the guys who are in the draw these units are once in a life time. BUT, for the SFW supporters, the ones who SFW represents, they can buy tags on the Pahvant, Monroe, Henrys, so bettering these units is a BUISNESS INVESTMENT for SFW.

Is the board of SFW evil, NO. Is Don Peay, NO. They are, or at least have been dishonest. I worked with Byrons son Bret. When SFW was starting up he came around and was drumming up membership for this new group that was going to represent us sportsman with the gov. and improve hunting for all of us. Sounded good. In there begining I think they did do this. But like ALL BUISNESSES, they had to focus on there who they were. By counting on a lot of working stiffs, who might have the money for membership(or might not) your revenues are in constant fluctuation. OR... you court and get in your fold a small circle of guys for whom money isn't a problem, your revenues are then constant, any time you call they scratch a check. Makes BUISNESS easier. SOOO, over time they start to be the advocates for these guys, all the while selling the "habitat is good for all of us", line to keep us content enough to stay quiet. They aren't evil, THEY ARE A BUISNESS, their customers are very wealthy trigger pullers, so anything that benefits them is GOOD FOR BUISNESS.

Think I am off, despite massive outcry by sportsmen in this state to NOT hunt the pet deer out on the island SFW pushed for the hunt. Did they sell it as, "we have a really wealthy guy and he would like to hunt tame deer during the rut"? NOOOOO, it was sold as " the island is in need of the money a tag could generate in order to keep the island financially feasible". That arguement changed a lot of minds and helped SFW achieve their goal, getting a rich client what he wants. HOWEVER, last week we find out that the island had record revenue last year, not only was it not broke, it set records. So did the tag, that was only to save the island go away? SFW spent a lot of money buying(i mean lobbying) the legislature to get what it wanted, good for the members for paying for the lobbying effort.

Lastly, despite selling himself as the only man who could stop wolves coming to utah(yeah they are here so he failed) in order to create a panic do drum up donations, I found it funny that is was the Montana rep who got the delisting. Is Don going to take credit for that too??
 
>>can anyone who is on this
>>forum honestly remember a time
>>in utah when hunting in
>>general was better than it
>>is now? how many elk
>>tags were their in 1995?
>>what about sheep ,goats, moose,was
>>hunting better before sfw ?
>>just something to think about.if
>>anyone has a better way
>>i would love to hear
>>it.
>
>
>Are you 12? First, a
>brief history lesson. Yeah,
>there are more elk today.
> HOWEVER, and I will
>use my unit as an
>example, the Manti. Roughly
>25 years ago(no SFW wasn't
>around) the DWR turned
>the Manti into a spike
>unit. Like an explosion
>the elk herd took off,
>becoming at one time one
>or two years away from
>Pahvant status. THEN, the
>DWR started giving out tags
>like candy(supported by the conservation
>groups ie, SFW), taking it
>to what it is today
>a 5yr old unit.
>Second, ask your dad or grandpa
>about deer hunting in the
>60's, 70's and some of
>the 80's, enough said.
>Moose tags on my unit the
>north slope seem to be
>going the wrong way.
>So that leaves sheep, curious, what
>has SFW done to stop
>the massive die off of
>sheep due to disease?
>
>NOW, lets discusss today. The
>Manti, Nebo, and Wasatch are
>being sacraficed(tags given to the
>groups) in order to create
>habitat on the Pahvant, Monroe,
>Henrys. Why? For
>the guys who are in
>the draw these units are
>once in a life time.
> BUT, for the SFW
>supporters, the ones who SFW
>represents, they can buy tags
>on the Pahvant, Monroe, Henrys,
>so bettering these units is
>a BUISNESS INVESTMENT for SFW.
>
>
>Is the board of SFW evil,
>NO. Is Don Peay,
>NO. They are, or
>at least have been dishonest.
> I worked with Byrons
>son Bret. When SFW
>was starting up he came
>around and was drumming up
>membership for this new group
>that was going to represent
>us sportsman with the gov.
>and improve hunting for all
>of us. Sounded good.
> In there begining I
>think they did do this.
> But like ALL BUISNESSES,
>they had to focus on
>there who they were.
>By counting on a lot
>of working stiffs, who might
>have the money for membership(or
>might not) your revenues are
>in constant fluctuation. OR...
> you court and get
>in your fold a small
>circle of guys for whom
>money isn't a problem, your
>revenues are then constant, any
>time you call they scratch
>a check. Makes BUISNESS
>easier. SOOO, over time
>they start to be the
>advocates for these guys, all
>the while selling the "habitat
>is good for all of
>us", line to keep us
>content enough to stay quiet.
> They aren't evil, THEY
>ARE A BUISNESS, their customers
>are very wealthy trigger pullers,
>so anything that benefits them
>is GOOD FOR BUISNESS.
>
>Think I am off, despite massive
>outcry by sportsmen in this
>state to NOT hunt the
>pet deer out on the
>island SFW pushed for the
>hunt. Did they sell
>it as, "we have a
>really wealthy guy and he
>would like to hunt tame
>deer during the rut"?
>NOOOOO, it was sold as
>" the island is in
>need of the money a
>tag could generate in order
>to keep the island financially
>feasible". That arguement changed
>a lot of minds and
>helped SFW achieve their goal,
>getting a rich client what
>he wants. HOWEVER, last
>week we find out that
>the island had record revenue
>last year, not only was
>it not broke, it set
>records. So did the
>tag, that was only to
>save the island go away?
> SFW spent a lot
>of money buying(i mean lobbying)
>the legislature to get what
>it wanted, good for the
>members for paying for the
>lobbying effort.
>
>Lastly, despite selling himself as the
>only man who could stop
>wolves coming to utah(yeah they
>are here so he failed)
>in order to create a
>panic do drum up donations,
>I found it funny that
>is was the Montana rep
>who got the delisting.
>Is Don going to take
>credit for that too??


he has already tried to take credit for the wolves see the other post in the forum
 
Don and Troy(Byron) can take there SFW consulting bulll schhhitt salaries and go Farve them selves on there little candy ashhh golf course called Utah big game hunting ... I for one have and will only continue to apply for and hunt out of state!!! Thanks Utah and SFW for laying the wood to the pooch and making me spend my dollar out of state!
 
>Don and Troy(Byron) can take there
>SFW consulting bulll schhhitt salaries
>and go Farve them selves
>on there little candy ashhh
>golf course called Utah big
>game hunting ... I for
>one have and will only
>continue to apply for and
>hunt out of state!!! Thanks
>Utah and SFW for laying
>the wood to the pooch
>and making me spend my
>dollar out of state!


what does not hunting in utah have to do with sfw ? what lesson are you trying to teach and who to? i think you are the only one missing out.
 
>UWC wants tags? Tworay you
>have no clue, you better
>read up so you dont
>show your ignorance.


Deerlove,

Did you read my post? I clearly stated (at least I thought for someone that could read) that UWC is NOT for conservation tags. I had that question answered clearly by a UWC member on another thread. My point was that the work they are doing with service projects is quite possibly funded by conservation permit money. And no I'm not talking about "convention tag" money. I quite clearly wrote that "UWC's stance for NOT participating in the conservation permit sales". Does that clear it up?
 
Gordy

How am I spinning & sly dogging the question? I fully understand and admit that these permits are owned by the state of Utah.

The money that SFW & MDF make are from application fee's. Same principle as what Fallon Nevada charges the state of Utah to conduct the general draw.

The major difference being the venue in which these tags are drawn. The revenue generated from the application fee's are available to SFW & MDF to further their Orginazations Mission Statement.

In the case of SFW those funds stay in the State of Utah. They are put into SFW's general fund and are available for Predator Control, Habitat Projects, Wolf Litigation, Transplants, Communtity Service & Day to Day exspenses etc.

Now you are free to argu that these funds should be restricted simular to the Conservation Tag Revenue that is fine. We do not agree for several reasons.

I understand where your Heart Burn is coming from. It all boils down to defining On The Ground. You want these funds accoundeted for just like the conservation tags.
SFW disagree's based upon how these funds are raised and the risk associated with putting on this event.

SFW is not about "Limited Opportunity High Success". Our board tries to take into consideration all points of view before making a decision on what stance to take.

If you have ever attended a SFW Board meeting this would be very evident. Yes we have made some decisions that are not real popular.I am not affriad to admit we have made the wrong decision in some instances (My opinion). The wildlife business is a tough one to be in. Everyone has their own opinion on what should be done and most of the time it reflects on what personally fits them best,to make things even tougher as Fisherman and Hunters we are very passionate about it.

I am all for opportunity I think you seen that from how I voted on the Elk committee and the comments I made. I personally feel there is a balance that can be achieved between Quality & Opportunity but it is going to require give and take on both sides.

"Provide the data for an offical audit from day one of the first expo."

My question to you Gordy is what data are you asking for and who is going to conduct this audit?

I would also ask what is the purpose of this Audit?
Is it just to see what the Expo generates for revenue?
Or are you accusing SFW & MDF of a crime or ilegal activity?

If there is a good enough reason I dont see why we would be opposed to such an audit.

Troy Justensen
 
I don't have a dog in this fight but if you check out the SFW web site it looks like they do a pretty good job of accounting for their funds. Does the UWC have a ligit complaint or are they just pissing on somebody's campfire?

Slick

"The Road goes on forever & the Party never Ends"
 

Similar threads

Simpleton
Mule Deer Proposal
2 3
Replies
223
Views
7k
Robiland
Robiland
E
Texas, Welcome to ALL the state of Utah
Replies
10
Views
992
elkfromabove
E
C
$150 NR tickets for violating Wyoming Wilderness rule (12 tickets in 10 years)
2
Replies
162
Views
5k
jm77
jm77

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

B4B39B27-FD84-4393-AD17-9CF53255B704.jpeg
2023.png
D187A883-36B3-41E5-9DD4-BCDD71573935.png
012CD579-DE47-477E-8DF7-B0D7EF5F843D.jpeg
393.jpeg
Amaaaaazzzzzing.....
AA08E670-5AC1-46B6-A1AD-61FF34904B2C.jpeg
IMG_0638.jpeg
IMG.jpg
114859F5-4CA4-4F3E-8EAE-C581C92F58E6.jpeg
IMG_2904 copy.jpg
20181005_123517.jpg
Back
Top Bottom