Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Hawkeye

Hawkeye

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Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

For the last several years, there have been questions, dialogue and debate regarding the 200 Convention Permits that the Utah DWR issues to MDF and SFW to give away at the Expo. The key facts relating to the Convention Permits are as follows: (1) the administrative rule that created the Convention Permits expressly states that one of the purposes of the permits is to "generate revenue for wildlife conservation activities;" (2) the state took 200 premium hunting permits out of the public draw and entrusted them to the groups participating in the Expo; (3) these participating groups have been raising several hundred thousand to nearly a million dollars a year from the $5 application fees; (4) there is no requirement whatsoever in the statute that the participating groups spend any of those funds on actual conservation projects; (5) the DWR does not audit how much money is raised from the 200 permits or how the groups spend that money; (6) the participating organizations have refused to provide any information or accounting as to how the revenues generated from the 200 permits have been spent; (7) the DWR, the Wildlife Board and the participating organizations all fail to see any problem with this situation. In a nutshell, Convention Permits are public assets and monies generated from those permits should be carefully accounted for and spent in an open and transparent manner.

There is a proposal from the Utah Wildlife Cooperative (?UWC?) on the table that will remedy this longstanding problem and mandate accountability and transparency. The proposal circulated by the UWC will not jeopardize the Hunting and Conservation Expo. Rather, it would improve what is already a wonderful event and ensure that the money generated from the Convention Permits is spent in such a way as to fulfill the very purpose for which those permits were created. The proposed amendment imposes the same basic requirements that already apply to Conservation Permits to Convention Permits. In other words, 90% of the revenue generated from the $5 application fees would have to be spent on actual conservation projects and the groups would have to account for those funds. These proposed changes are fair and equitable, and are frankly long overdue.

There is widespread support among the general public for the UWC?s proposed amendment. Over 1,000 sportsmen have signed a petition in support of the UWC?s proposed amendment. The proposed amendment is also consistent with the RMEF?s recent call for transparency with regard to special game permits. See http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/NewsReleases/2012/biggampermits.htm. Not surprisingly, the two conservation groups involved with the Expo, SFW and MDF, do not support the proposed amendment. SFW has stated that it stands behind the current version of the rule that imposes no accountability or transparency requirements. MDF has not responded to multiple inquiries regarding its official position.

This brings me to the purpose for this post. The Utah Wildlife Board has placed the UWC?s proposed rule amendment on the agenda for the Board Meeting scheduled for Thursday August 16th. It is my understanding that the Board is not placing the amendment on the RAC agendas as an action item. Rather, it has simply placed it on the agenda for the Wildlife Board meeting so that the public has an opportunity to comment on this important issue. This is a very positive development.

If you are one of the many sportsmen that have expressed frustration on this issue over the past few years or one of the 1,000+ sportsmen that signed the online petition, this is your chance to share your thoughts with the Wildlife Board and help fix this problem. Please mark August 16th on your calendars and make time to attend the Board Meeting in SLC, Utah. Please spread the word to your friends and family members. It is absolutely critical that we rally the troops and have a massive showing of support at this meeting. In the past, we as sportsmen have had a tendency to complain on the internet but then fail to show up at important meetings where the actual decisions are made. As a result, the DWR and the Wildlife Board have listened to conservation groups and their agendas. If we want the Wildlife Board to take us seriously then we need to show up in masses and demand accountability and transparency. There have been a number of developments over the last few years that have helped build momentum on this issue. Let's take advantage of this opportunity and fix this problem once and for all.

If you are willing to attend the Wildlife Board meeting on Thursday August 16th to express support for the UWC?s proposed rule amendment, please post a message on this thread. Your comments at the meeting don't need to be lengthy or eloquent. Just tell the Board who you are and why you are concerned about this issue. If you live out of state and cannot make it to the meeting, please take the time to email the Wildlife Board Members. If you are concerned about this issue and would like to get involved but need more information on this issue, please feel free to PM or email me or Tye Boulter, President of the UWC.

In conclusion, this issue has been festering for a long time. While we still have an uphill battle ahead of us, we have an opportunity to August 16th to show the Wildlife Board that we are not happy with the current situation. I believe that the conservation groups involved, and possible even the DWR, doubt that the average sportsmen have the determination and organization to push this amendment through. Let's prove them wrong and show them that we can do more than complain on the internet. Together we can fix this problem.

Who will join on us on August 16th?

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Where can we find the email addresses of the Wildlife Board Members?


Thanks

Jimmy
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

The meeting date is the day most will be leaving for camp before the bow hunt opener...

Might be allot of trucks-n-trlrs in the parking lot!

Thanks for the heads-up Hawkeye

Robb
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I have a couple of questions.

1. What is the $5 application for? What is a person applying for?

2. When does a person pay the $5 application fee?

3. WHo decided the application fee price?

4. Is the actual petiton worded to collect %90 of the application fees, or is it worded to collect %90 of $5 however many times the fee is collected?

Much thanks

Ben
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I hope someone can put up the names and email addys of the members so us outstaters can do our thing and send messages since we can't attent the actual meeting. Funny how someone who said he was so knowledgeable on all these Expo tag matters on another long thread is now asking a bunch of questions about the whole process!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Well Hawkeye I was thinking about signing your petition but since topgun decided he was going to talk garbage because I had questions you can forget about it. Hopefully the SFW gets all of your tags next year and your stuck putting for a draw tag for a jackrabbit. Your allies are doing well to win you favor!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

TRI-
1- the 5$ app fee is to apply for each of the 200 wealth tags that sfw/mdf were given.

2. The 5$ fee is paid up front in February when they have the big expo.

3. This was set, i believe, by the 2 groups involved.

4. It is set to take 90% of total fees. So if I spent 100$ in fees, they would set 90 to go back to wildlife. Right now, with the public tags given them, they dont or are not required to give back to wildlife. For all we know, they pocket that money between the top guys. It is also says to show accounting with that $.

Hope this helps.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate if you truly intended to sign the petition, do it...topgun we have agreed on many points....but please let one post go by without making it personal with somebody..that just distracts from the true purpose of the post, the more info hawkeye posts the more people may be willing to sign the petition
knowledge is power



How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 08:03AM (MST)[p]Treedagain,

I was seriously thinking about signing the petition. Thats why I asked the questions I did. I do not take signing something lightly. But now it will be a cold day in hell before I put my name EVER on a piecr of paper that Topgun has signed. He is a black eye for your cause and refuses to ever be a gentleman. He is to stupid to realize he is an anti-hunter. I don't care if you get a petition that is going to get 20 billion dollars alloted to the Utah DRW if topguns name goes on it you can count me out and I will tell every customer I have the exact same. I really did believe the sfw books should be open for all to see. Not anymore. Topgun and anyone who is on his side can't comprehend the math anyway and willjust make arguements because they can't have %102!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate-

We all need to have thicker skin when it comes to disagreements on issues like this. You and I had a pretty good discussion on the other thread where we agreed upon very little but I never took offense to your comments.

If you agree with the proposed amendment and the principles of transparency and accountability with regard to public assets then sign the petition and email the wildlife board. I would like to keep this thread focused on rallying support for the Board Meeting. If you have real questions regarding the issue, send me a pm or email and we can schedule a time to talk in more detail.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Maybe I missed it sorry if I did but where will it be held and at what time will it be held? I also would like to see the addresses of the board members or a way of finding them thanks... I will be there!!!!!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

The Wildlife Board Meeting will be held on Thursday August 16th, at 9:00 a.m. There are a handful of matters on the agenda, one of which is the proposed amendment to the Convention Permit rule. The Board should issue the actual agenda that will show the order in which the various matters will be discussed in the next few days. The meeting will be held at the DNR building at 1594 West North Temple in SLC, Utah. If you would like to email the Wildlife Board members prior to the meeting, the following email address will send an email to each Board member: [email protected]

If at all possible, please make time to attend the meeting. We need a substantial showing if we want to have any traction with the Board.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 10:16AM (MST)[p]I don't believe a time or place has been stated yet and I apologize for even posting the statement that the other member has now been able to come up with for a reason to not sign the petition and get behind this important movement!

Edit: Sorry, as I got away from the computer and see it's been answered right before I posted. Thanks Hawkeye and good day to ya! This meeting isn't live streamed out over the net is it?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I'll be there. I'll show my face. Say my piece if I have to. But if SFW wants to take tags to auction and hurt my odds more of drawing an amazing tag...that's one thing. But to collect money from it and not have to put it back towards the herds, is ludicris. I mean really...if your going to auction a few tags off that's fine. Raise some money. But they don't need to auction off 200 tags. PLUS...they need to be accountable and put the majority of the money back in the herds here in Utah.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Just sent the Utah Wildlife Board an e-mail asking them to vote in favor of the UWC proposal to amend the Convention Permit Rule.

Eldorado
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Thanks BillyBob. This effort is certainly worth our time. Please track me down at the meeting and introduce yourself. It would be nice to put a face with a name--or at least a user name.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Sorry to keep bothering you Haqkey with ??? I just want to be prepared. As for our support on the petition are they going to go through and let all of us the general public ask questions voice our concerns or should we email prior to the meeting with our concerns and ?'s or do they just asume we are all there in support for the petition? I second billybobs post on a few tags here or there to raise money I have no beef with but 200 tags and no accounting is completely dishonest and a shame to the public and to the orgs that are doing this shameful act. Thanks for all of your hard work on this topic Hawkeye you are a stand up guy in my book. All who believe in this cause lets set time aside to get this wrong righted!!!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

chubchub-

I sent you a pm. Call me at your convenience.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So what we are all asking for transparency about is the $5.00 fees that are charged for the expo tags. I read a post from the director of the dwr that said they set get a yearly report from SFW and MDF and was fine with the accounting.
What I am most worried about is a little group called UWC that sees a call from the RMEF which was basically the same thing that was sent out over a year ago to address the AZ, crap SFW was trying top pull. Then UWC runs with it trying to make these groups look like they are stealing from the general public when from what the director said in his response was that the expo was designed to bring a multi state event to the state of UTAh that would bring in millions of dollars to the state of UT. 200 paper tags for 20 million or so dollars is a pretty good investment on the states part, even I can see that and I am not a hawkeye. So what I really want to know is who is behind this group some environmental anti hunting group wispering in some rednecks ears stuff that they know will break apart all the conservation groups in Utah. (devided we are weak together we are strong). did you notice the proposal called for no fees can be spent on predator control. looks like sneaky anti hunter crap to me. This is nothing more than some low life attorneys idea of how to take the conservation tag contract and start destroying conservation in Utah. Wake up people! This is just a ploy from a group that does nothing but talk to get publicity and devide us sportman. when this is done will they do next to devide us? Oh I know ! maybe the $10.00 fees the drw charges us all!!! THis looks like a group that wants to be the next SFW.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 02:25PM (MST)[p]"So what we are all asking for transparency about is the $5.00 fees that are charged for the expo tags. I read a post from the director of the dwr that said they set get a yearly report from SFW and MDF and was fine with the accounting.
What I am most worried about is a little group called UWC that sees a call from the RMEF which was basically the same thing that was sent out over a year ago to address the AZ, crap SFW was trying top pull. Then UWC runs with it trying to make these groups look like they are stealing from the general public when from what the director said in his response was that the expo was designed to bring a multi state event to the state of UTAh that would bring in millions of dollars to the state of UT. 200 paper tags for 20 million or so dollars is a pretty good investment on the states part, even I can see that and I am not a hawkeye. So what I really want to know is who is behind this group some environmental anti hunting group wispering in some rednecks ears stuff that they know will break apart all the conservation groups in Utah. (devided we are weak together we are strong). did you notice the proposal called for no fees can be spent on predator control. looks like sneaky anti hunter crap to me. This is nothing more than some low life attorneys idea of how to take the conservation tag contract and start destroying conservation in Utah. Wake up people! This is just a ploy from a group that does nothing but talk to get publicity and devide us sportman. when this is done will they do next to devide us? Oh I know ! maybe the $10.00 fees the drw charges us all!!! THis looks like a group that wants to be the next SFW."

That deserves a second post.

"He is a black eye for your cause and refuses to ever be a gentleman. He is to stupid to realize he is an anti-hunter."

Funny how two posters now feel that the behavior of so called hunters is closer to the behavior of the anti-hunters.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

UWC is wanting to be SFW? Are they asking for tags?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

>LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12
>AT 02:25?PM (MST)
>
>"So what we are all asking
>for transparency about is the
>$5.00 fees that are charged
>for the expo tags. I
>read a post from the
>director of the dwr that
>said they set get a
>yearly report from SFW and
>MDF and was fine with
>the accounting.
>What I am most worried about
>is a little group called
>UWC that sees a call
>from the RMEF which was
>basically the same thing that
>was sent out over a
>year ago to address the
>AZ, crap SFW was trying
>top pull. Then UWC runs
>with it trying to make
>these groups look like they
>are stealing from the general
>public when from what the
>director said in his response
>was that the expo was
>designed to bring a multi
>state event to the state
>of UTAh that would bring
>in millions of dollars to
>the state of UT. 200
>paper tags for 20 million
>or so dollars is a
>pretty good investment on the
>states part, even I can
>see that and I am
>not a hawkeye. So what
>I really want to know
>is who is behind this
>group some environmental anti hunting
>group wispering in some rednecks
>ears stuff that they know
>will break apart all the
>conservation groups in Utah. (devided
>we are weak together we
>are strong). did you notice
>the proposal called for no
>fees can be spent on
>predator control. looks like sneaky
>anti hunter crap to me.
>This is nothing more than
>some low life attorneys idea
>of how to take the
>conservation tag contract and start
>destroying conservation in Utah. Wake
>up people! This is just
>a ploy from a group
>that does nothing but talk
>to get publicity and devide
>us sportman. when this is
>done will they do next
>to devide us? Oh I
>know ! maybe the $10.00
>fees the drw charges us
>all!!! THis looks like a
>group that wants to be
>the next SFW."
>
>That deserves a second post.
>
>"He is a black eye for
>your cause and refuses to
>ever be a gentleman. He
>is to stupid to realize
>he is an anti-hunter."
>
>Funny how two posters now feel
>that the behavior of so
>called hunters is closer to
>the behavior of the anti-hunters.
>


All I see is the emoptional part of all of us that want to draw a tag being used against us. what would the odds change by ? maybe 1% in the actual draws? I do not know how much it costs to process each of those applications, the DWR charges $10.00 for each. I have only been to 1 SFW event and a few MDF events over the years. But I do see some group busting up the sportman groups in our state faster than any anti Hunter group could.
from a business stand point the expo tags are a brilliant move by the state. From an anti hunter ploy UWC is the most efficient yet!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

not yet? give them time! Did Don start out asking for tags?
when they are done we will probably be back to the 70's when all the tags are over the counter and our limited entry units are gone. the conservatiuon tags and the expo tags will be gone ans so will the funding for the linmited entry programs. wildlife and conservation efforts in the state will just go backwards if we follow these guys!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So?

Is the UWC gonna do it for 4.99?



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RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

elk30,

it is clear you have not been around very long. Hawkeye and UWC and the majority of us are just asking for transperancy. They say that they give all the info to the DWR on what they do with this money, but even the guys at the DWR, (EXCEPT JIM KARPOWITS)(and he even has no clue) have no clue what they spend that money on.

TRUST ME, your so called "low life lawyer" you are talking about has mett with several groups and know more about this stuff than all of us combined. He is not tring to divide, only unite and make sure those that are taking public assets and making millions off them SHOW US WHAT THEY DO WITH THAT MONEY.

By the way, they are not making 20 million $$$ off of the people coming to Utah. NO WHERE CLOSE to that amount.

I suggest you talk to or call HAWKEYE and talk to him and get details before you go and blow smoke you know nothing about!!!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

who cares. The SWA or Peta will do it for $3.99.

Fact is they have all the conservation groups and the DWR at odds with each other over an idea that was not even thiers to begin with they had some bored atty take the conservation permit contract add a few things to it like the money cannot be used for predator control or supplemental feeding of big game and has 1,000+ guys thinking they are going to draw their tag next year if this goes through.

The atty general could say this is all a lottery and kiss our big game system good bye.

How much better could this kind of plan get for the anti Hunters?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So if UWN asks for transparency there trying to devide and conquer and are now anti hunting? Hmmm interesting.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So Hawkeye know more about big game than the director? wow!I have lived here all my life and would rather hunt Elk than any other animal out there. Its never been better since Jim took over, I have only drawn one tag but sure love seeing the big herds!
Anytime someone uses TRUST ME and Lawyer in the same sentence i get conserned.

How much does this bring into the state 10 million 15 enlighten me.
you are right I am pretty new to this I heard about all this and decided to look into what is being said.
So I suggest everyone do what I did and research what the DWR and the director have done and said, look for anything the UWC has done for our state!
Ask yourself how much would it cost to put on an event like this.
Then look at it from s skeptics view of why would this group do this and what are they planning on doing in the future.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I see another first poster calling all kinds of BS against one of the best members on these Forums who has dedicated many hours of his valuable, expensive time to the cause of making things right for the average Joe! Then it is followed by another newbie that has already made his views well known his first week and that are contrary to the view of 99% of the site members that have posted on the subject. The RMEF letter calling for transparency went out to the media on 6/14/12, well after the UWC had begun work on this petition that was finalized and put out on the website on approximately 6/19/12. The petition was signed by over 1000 persons in a little more than two weeks and if it could have been publicized better I believe signatures would have skyrocketed far beyond that number. Now everyone that can get to that meeting called by the DWR Board needs to be there and not let this die, but rather let them know that the majority of stakeholders are tired of the shenanigans being pulled and it needs to be changed. The Expo will live on and bring in whatever it's bringing in, but I don't believe the figure is anywhere near that expressed in the above post.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I believe it was David Allen and the RMEF that called for transparency not UWC.
They did not try to tell the drw how to do there job or try to discredit the director of the DWR or anyone else that has contributed to UT big game.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Topgun how much is it? this newbie wants to know.I am sure you know I would be shocked if you and the UWC leaders did not. that would be illogical!

just spend some time reading what I did.

At first it all sounds good then when I saw that they were adding language about no funds can be used for predator control ect. I thought what other motives do they have. everything else just started to come into my sceptic newbie mind.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 03:57PM (MST)[p]Hawkeye

Elk30-

Great first post. LOL. In the event that your questions are sincere, please forgive what I am about to say.

Your comments demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge and understanding of this issue. Given your comments and number of posts, I am guessing that you are another troll looking to dilute and distract. Therefore, I should probably just ignore your comments. However, in the unlikely event you are a sportsmen that is sincerely concerned about these issues, I will address some of your comments.

First, all we are asking for is for the DWR and the conservation groups to comply with the administrative rule that created the Convention Permits. According to the rule, the Convention Permits were created to "generate revenues for wildlife conservation activties." As it stand right now, nobody (including the DWR) knows how that money is being spent. Why don't you ask the Director of the DWR for a copy of the alleged annual accounting provided by the groups. It does not exist. I have been asking to see if for over three years. I doubt the groups even know where the money is being spent because they commingle it in their general accounts.

Second, with regard to your comments relating to the recent call for transparency from the RMEF, this issue was brewing long before RMEF issued in announcement. While I agree with the statement from RMEF, that statement was not the impetus for this movement.

Third, you mention that the 200 Convention Permits generate some significant tourism dollars for the State of Utah. That is true. However, generating tourism dollars was one of the two express purposes for those permits in the statute. What about the other statutory purpose--to "generate revenue for wildlife conservation activities?" That somehow slipped through the cracks.

Fourth, yes, the proposed rule amendment imposes restrictions as to how the revenues from the $5 applciation fees can be used. However, the requirements and limitations are the exact same requirements and limitations that apply to the Conservation Permit funds. All we did is cut and paste the accounting and transparency requirements from the Conservation Permit rule. Those are the requirements that the DWR and the conservation groups are familiar with and follow from the Conservation Permit rule. Read the rule. It is the same language (their language). Sorry, but PETA has nothing to do with this.

Finally, our intent is not to divide sportsmen. Rather, we simply want the DWR and the conservation groups to undersand that Convention Permits are public assets and the monies therefrom should be carefully spent on approved actual wildlife conservation activties in a open and transparent matter.

Despite my need from entertainment, I will refrain from responding to additional outlandish posts. Have a nice day.

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 04:45PM (MST)[p]elk 30,

Do your self a favor and do a search here on MM and search all the topics that have been argued over the years about this subject and the knowledge that certain people know and details that certain people know, about this subject. I am talking also about both sides of the party, not Just Hawkeye. If you read them, and I hope you have several days, you will see what this is all about.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

SFW has their financials on their web sight. People do not want to accept that. If they did then they would have nothing to argue against. They also explain where the money goes from the expo as well as banquets. Problem is there are those that do not want the money spent on anything other than big game. The mission statement of SFW is:
?The mission of SFW is to promote the protection and enhancement of wildlife habitat, assist in providing quality wildlife management programs, educating the public about the role hunters play in wildlife conservation, and perpetuating the family tradition of hunting and fishing?.
SFW does all kinds of projects such as the Salem Pond project that helps people that are handicapped be able to fish. They also donate money to raise fish bigger in the hatcheries so they are not dinner soon as they put them in the lake. They take our war hero's fishing and hunting with some of that money, the very people that have put their life on the line so we have the freedom to hunt and fish. That money is used to educate the youth and to help them learn about hunting. The pheasant plan to try to increase the pheasant population we have lost in the state of Utah is also funded with some of that money. It is not all used for hunting of big game. It is used to help the people here in Utah to be able to enjoy the outdoors both in fishing and hunting. You want to fight against that fine. You want to stop it, fine. You will and hunting will go down hill. Someone posted how Wyoming is going to be bankrupt if they do not do something to raise money. How many know that Don Peay went to the state legislators a few years ago when the increase in hunting fees were proposed to be raised and got the money so that the fees did not go up. How many people from out of state are applying in Utah for the chance to get a hunt. So many people are applying for the Utah hunts that the odds are next to impossible. Why are they applying for hunts in Utah, because of the game that we have here. Game that was built threw conservation organizations to make better hunting. Guess maybe we shot ourselves in the foot. The people applying increase every year.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Hawkwye I will not begin to match wits with you. and whether you like it or not all you are doing is undercutting conservation in Utah.
You can call me whatever you want your still an ATTORNEY.
THe UWC did not even exist in most guys worlds until the RMEF called for transparency. What have they ever contributed to conservation other than taking someone elses call and yelling it out loud so everyone thinks it was there idea? When I looked at Kaparwits post he said they had seen reports on what was being spent. all you and the other UWC guys did was mock his post.
You are saying this was going on for years, why did you not go to the rack meetings or the big game board last year or the years before when this was being renewed?
Was the $5.00 intended to create revenue for wildlife activities. How much money does this expo raise for the state of UTah? I would really like to know. I am all for Hunting and still have to live in Utah and want our state to prosper. How many hunting tags ar sold during this just so people can apply? would those same people have bought those tags anyway?
So you did not add any language as to how the funds can be used? no predator restrictions ect?
Glad I can entertain you. You and UWC scare the hell out of me when I think of the damage you guys can cause now and in the future. I fear this is just the beggining of the squeeky UWC wheel. What else will you attack in the future?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Well Said Hawkeye.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Welcome back Birdman. I hope that you and your family are recovering from the Wood Hollow fire. You mentioned that SFW "explains where the money goes from the expo." Really? The only explanation I have ever received in four years is that it goes into SFW general account and is spent like any other funds (with the exception of Conservation Permit funds which are earmarked for approved projects).

What explanation or accounting have your received? I assume that you are referring to the fact that you support SFW's Mission Statement so however they spend the money is okay with you regardless of whether it is spent on overhead, salaries, bonuses, benefits, etc. If have seen an accounting, please share it with the group.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Ribiland I will look at the other posts as you suggest you seem very genuine and I am as well. being called atroll by an atty is not anything that most people have not heard, we call them much worse.
Sorry about all my rantings, when I heard about this and decided to look at it I had no idea what was being said, then you get guys belittling others for their sincere questions and have to think what are the real objectives here, my thoughts are this is being funded by George Sorris or the humane society or something no real sportsman in Utah would devide all the conservation groups up like this one.
I just see no winners in this big bunch of crap, i guess I reduce it to the rediculous when I think all this is over $5.00 permit fees and that the salt palace is not free to use whenever someone wants to use it.
the biggest question I have is what do they attach next. Hunters safety.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Please, please can Founder institue an "ignore" option next to each poster's i.d. where we can avoid having to sort through the SFW trolls that show up in otherwise spirited discussions. The trolls toss out a few distractions and try to dilute these threads everytime. Let me click on the name and not have to skip past these moronoic postings.

Might help you since if you see a high number of "ignores" of a user then maybe is a bigger issue at hand.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 04:47PM (MST)[p]You just dont get it, do you? elk30 has not read a single post over the last 3+ years, gets on here and starts raising hell. Like I said before, do a search and read it for the last 3 years and you will see that it has been a problem, and now others are starting to see it and its getting momentum.


I am done with elk30. Good luck reading 3 years worth of info!!! I hope you get something out of it.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I enjoy how this has been a battle for transparency. But when people ask questions about the attachments to the petition THERE IS NO TRANSPARENCY! In fact all that happens is a bunch of personaL attacks, click behavior, and then calling people trolls. This is why you are dividing hunters. Why does a man with a question must prove himself in some way just to ask the question? The issue of $5 has tainted the cause of this petition. Without any knowledge of costs to the SFW y'all have grabbed at money with some number picked out of thin air %90. What's funny is you want to see their books so you can learn where the money goes but you do not know what their costs are but somehow you know how much of that money you feel entitled to. And "cut and paste" isn't an excuse for bad policy.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 05:41PM (MST)[p]YOU are the one trying to divide hunters. Every time a question has been asked you have gotten an honest answer. Too bad the answers aren't what you want to hear! The $5 fee per raffle ticket was explained when the question was asked, as was the question about where the money is supposed to go acording to the contract. It has not been shown where the money is going and the SFW/MDF doesn't want it to be known. Geez, I wonder why if it's going to conservation instead of in a few pockets. In case neither of you are aware of it, the $5 fees total close to 1 million dollars a year and NONE of it has been reported so we can see where it went. As far as the other question, Hawkeye explained that it was taken right from the other contract that both sides have agreed to and nobody has raised a stink about that until now you two new guys have got on here with obviously no knowledge of what's going on. As others have stated, it's rather perturbing when a new person comes on and starts spouting off when they are obviously not versed in the subject being discussed or just want to hijack the thread. Every time a thread is going along on this subject or something similar, new people come out of the woodwork and hijack the thread just like the two of you have done again here. Founder does need to take care of these kinds of situations just like was stated above with an ignore button so that when a person gets on just to stir up trouble and hijack a post the numbers will add up and alert a Moderator or the site owner.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Since when does the amount of posts a person has determine his/her qualifications to speak their mind on here? I dont post alot, not the type to "toot my own horn" and come off as a know it all! However I am on here daily catching up and laughing at you drama queens making complete a$$es out of yourselves. The newbie thing is getting old!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

>I enjoy how this has been
>a battle for transparency.
>But when people ask questions
>about the attachments to the
>petition THERE IS NO TRANSPARENCY!
> In fact all that
>happens is a bunch of
>personaL attacks, click behavior, and
>then calling people trolls.
>This is why you are
>dividing hunters. Why does
>a man with a question
>must prove himself in some
>way just to ask the
>question? The issue
>of $5 has tainted the
>cause of this petition.
>Without any knowledge of costs
>to the SFW y'all have
>grabbed at money with some
>number picked out of thin
>air %90. What's funny
>is you want to see
>their books so you can
>learn where the money goes
>but you do not know
>what their costs are but
>somehow you know how much
>of that money you feel
>entitled to. And "cut
>and paste" isn't an excuse
>for bad policy.

90% mirrors the conservation tag rule.

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Aug 16th 0900, I'll be there Hawkeye. Thanks for the hard work you have been doing on this for the last couple of years!
I am guessing that MDF has still been unable to get back with you on their support or non support of the proposed amendment.
I sincerely believe that those people who are trying to raise doubt with this issue should be ignored. Either they will research the last five years or they won't. It has been mentioned many times that all we want is the CONVENTION permits be treated and scrutinized using the same standards and rules as the CONSERVATION permits.
It is painfully obvious that some are here to only distract from this endeavor. All that is being asked is to support it or don't. If you want to say something about the issue either way, go to the meeting on the 16th!
Hope to meet you there Hawkeye!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

The language of the proposed amendment to the Convention Permit Rule is readily available for anyone that wants to review it. It has also been posted on the internet. See http://uwcnewsletter.wordpress.com/uwc-convention-tag-proposal/. The accounting requirements and restrictions on what the $5 application fees can be used for mirror the language of the Conservation Permit Rule. See http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-041.htm#T9. We are merely seeking to impose the same safeguards that are already in place with respect to the Conservation Permits. The conservation groups are already familiar with these requirements.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Sure thing Hawkeye. I've decided to also send an email also due to the fact that my speech time would be small. I'm guessing. I've never attended a meeting but have listened to some that were posted on the internet.

I look forward to supporting this petition in person. I'm hoping others will follow suit and show up too. I've decided I won't be purchasing anything from any of the vendors at the expo. I've seen the list and there is only a few that I have purchased from before but can easily take them off my list. Also I probably won't be attending the expo in the new year unless some serious things change.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Hawk eye,

I read the link and thank you for posting it. But I still feel your %90 number is pulled out of thin air. You claim you don't know what they are spending on what but you see the number %90 listed in the state rules and figure that is a good enough number for you to grab at. What if you get your way and you get your 90 and the SFW has to raise its fee to $50 to actually cover costs involved that you didn't even know where there. Because then you get $45 just so the SFW can get their five dollars necessary to cover some costs. I guess that plays well into your plan. Other people working harder and harder to redistribute wealth into sectors which you desire?????? Meanwhile the SFW gets hamstrung. If the SFW is collecting a cool million now with that fee y'all can force it into 9 million quick. That's a lot of anti-hunting funds.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

How come every time I read a topgun post I just sea ugly old James Carvel a.k.a. Skellator, trying to convince everybody who disagrees with they are dumb and have no memory.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Win win situation for everyone. 1 million to 9 million, 90% is 90%. the more money raised the more money that goes back to fund wildlife.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 07:35PM (MST)[p]Well there's another real intelligent post with another "%90" saying it's just pulled right out of the air! Just shows again that you post with no reading comprehension on what you speak of! He "claims" we don't know where it goes because that's the truth. Look that word up, as it appears you have a hard time with anything that approaches it! Now you have come up with even more preposterous BS and then end it with: "That's a lot of anti-hunting funds." when the fees are supposed to go directly to conservation efforts. Just keep posting this BS and you'll keep your azzclown of the site designation for a long time!!!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

the most recent tax form available from SFW. search the archives,,, go back to about page 3,,,, scroll down to somewhwere in the vicinity of 86,,,,,
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I see you slipped another zinger in there azzclown! If you haven't figured it out yet, you have only had maybe one or two people in your corner on this website since you started posting all your BS, LOL! Therefore, it's not only me that thinks you don't know squat about which you speak!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

It's irrelevant what their tax forms say. This petition is moving forward. In other terms it means the boat sailing is about to stop. There is absolutely no reason at ALL why the convention tag rules shouldn't be the same as the conservation tags. Period. Those funds made should be going back towards wildlife. Besides some overhead costs involved to run the expo. But I would bet that SFW won't want to run the expo anymore if these rules are changed. They'll have to find a different way to make a quick million. But at least they could be satisfied to know that the money that they would have been able to pocket, will actually be going towards projects to help the herds. If their heart was in the right place, they'd be more than happy with that.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate....
Man you amaze me. Not in a good way either. Still don't have a clue.
Your comment about Hawkeye 90% being pulled out of thin air is a clear indication that you're not reading the posts clearly in this thread. Go back to post #31 and read it again. Carefully this time. He talks about copying and pasting the same rules for the conservation tags to be deemed the same for the convention tags....Get it? He's set it up to have the same rules....Get it? It wasn't pulled out of thin air.
GEEEEEEEEEZ!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-12 AT 08:27PM (MST)[p]Tristate-

The 90% number was not "pulled out of thin air." That is the same allocation the conservation groups and the DWR agree to on the conservation permits. 90% is earmarked for approved conservation projects and the groups retain 10% to cover overhead and administrative expenses. Remember that one of the two statutory purposes for the Convention Permits is to "generate revenues for wildlife conservation activites."

You are correct that I do not know what the groups are spending the money on--nobody does, including the DWR. If the costs to operate the Expo are so significant that the groups cannot put 90% of the $5 application fees into actual conservation projects then the groups should step forward and prove it with financial records. The fact of the matter is the groups refuse to open their books and answer any of these questions. Lets not forget that the groups make money from many different sources at the Expo, including admissions, booth rentals, food and beverages, events, etc. We are not questioning how any of those funds are spent. We are only concerned about the application fees generated from a public asset (the Convention Permits). It's really pretty simple. They have taken a public asset and sold it in the name of conservation projects. We want to make sure the revenues from that public asset are used for actual conservation projects.

I don't even know what to say to your statement regarding "my plan" to "redistribute wealth into sectors I desire?" What are you talking about? We are only asking that these groups put that money into actual conservation projects. Nothing more.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

What's "pretty simple" is really confusing to Tristate.
His comments and arguments prove it.
That's ok...Maybe one day he'll get it....Maybe
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

The subterfuge by some is quite clear and obvious. These people simply want to continue milking the cash cow that has brought them huge political clout and monetary gain. They see the UWC proposal to amend the Convention Permit Rule as a threat to their ability to continue to dictate wildlife policies that are not in the interest of the majority of outdoorsmen. This fight will have huge implications not only in Utah but in other western states in how wildlife is eventually viewed and subsequently managed.

Eldorado
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

+1^
Well said.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Can someone provide me with a copy of invoice so I can see the charges if you are a buyer of the conservation permit?

By the way the reason I talked about taking $5 to $50 to still cover the processing fee, but someone else getting %90, was an attempt to show how raising prices actually cut people out of the game. Even my oponents here have argued that. Yall have all talked about how when tag prices go up fewer hunters try and get tags, well isn't this the same thing????? If the SFW did not need $5 for processing, what amount do they need? Lets say they only needed $.02 for each transaction. Then couldn't they drop the price to $.20 and screw yall over? Then this vicious cycle would continue. But yall don't even know if that is realistic because yall don't know what the books say. Don't you see how grabbing at the money and wanting the books opened at the same time is risky. Sure yall can come out winners. But you can just as easily screw yourselves.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

"These people simply want to continue milking the cash cow that has brought them huge political clout and monetary gain."

Excellent post Eldorado. Not because you are correct but because you are the first opponent to actually recognize the SFW are also people.


"They see the UWC proposal to amend the Convention Permit Rule as a threat to their ability to continue to dictate wildlife policies that are not in the interest of the majority of outdoorsmen."

DO you have any polling that states your opinion is the majority of sportsmen? Right now this petition doesn't have 2k signatures but SFW claims they have over 100k sportsmen behind them.

Maybe if yall could get someone to take away topgun's keyboard yall might start getting a real following together. At least get yalls money back on the PR course yall bought for him and put that in conservation.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I see when you have nothing better to do in your first week on the site you resort in continuing to spout BS about me, LOL! You seem so interested in numbers and percentages, even though you don't know that % goes after the number, so here's one for you to go look up. Go find out how many members the SFW has in Utah and then come back and let us know how they claim they represent 100,000. They can "claim" a number just like DP now claims killing a few coyotes is going to triple the deer population in just several years! Yea, right! How many SFW members do you see on here, the best and most popular website for hunters that Utah has, sticking up for the SFW? Answer---Less than 5% of the total numbers posting on this site! They couldn't get 100,000 behind them unless they went to Illinois and got the Chicago voting records where one person counts as ten, LOL!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

SFW claimed to represent every member of every organization in Arizona until the shat hit the fan over the 360 fat hog tags. Now they represent a handful here. The cutting of the fat hog is now threatened in the Homeland so the SFW/MDF takers are panicking. Carry on and get rid of the infestation.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

But Topgun I pulled the number off of their website so it has to be right. Are you hearing my sarcasm? Because I am laying it on pretty thick. When topgun pulls something off a website its a reference. When someone else does it, then its just a lie.

Why do the members of SFW only have to be in Utah? The signers on this petition are not only located in Utah. I love how you claim a set number of "less than 5%" of people belong to SFW on a sight where you probably know less than %5 of the actual names on this sight, so you can't possibly calculate that number. Don't let actuallity get in the way of your math and endless search for %102.

Face it. Regardless of how I punctuate "%" I am the only one here that looks at real math.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So to aid me in my quest can someone here tell me the total number of deer+elk+sheep+goat+moose+bison+antelope tags in the state of Utah?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-12 AT 08:02AM (MST)[p]Claiming one thing on a website like SFW does and posting something on another that is easily verified by looking at the department books that are open and subject to a FOIA request are two complete opposites! Unlike the G&F, the SFW doesn't have open books to ascertain ANYTHING! I swear this new guy must be DP with the BS he keeps posting!
Edit: Aid you in your quest for what, LOL? Go and find the numbers yourself, rather than asking others to do it so you can come back and mock them like you did BuzzH!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Let's see if we can get back on track with this thread. Please post a message or send me a pm and let me know if you are willing to attend the Wildlife Board Meeting on Thursday August 16th. This will be a critical meeting for those of us who would like to see some accountability and tranparency with regard to the Convention Permits.

If you are looking to argue or pick a fight, please start a separate thread.

Thanks.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Wow you guys have been busy!
I thought this was a public open forum, so a guy gets interested in whats going on asks some questions and gets sand kicked in his face from the bully on the block.
I remember grandma telling me to not argue with a fool they will bring you down to their level. Topgun please stop responding to me.

I am still waiting for my question to my answer on the big picture in the state of Utah.

How much money does the expo raise as an economic boost to the Utah economy by bringing in this expo? what is the ROI for the DWR. You people do understand business right?

UWC must know this and chooses not to be transparent enough to disclose this.
How much does it cost to put on this event. The DWR charges me $10.00 they charge $5.00.
What does UWC really want I still think this is just the starting of the next SFW. make a bunch of noise with other peoples ideas! Copy and paste something add a few new lines such as no money can be used for predator control or supplemental feeding. (good idea in a drought year with lots of fires burning the winter range!)
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate, You do no one any good by making up numbers as to who is supporting who. I am a SFW member who supports what is going on with the current situation of the convention tags. How ever NO where can I see that SFW claims to have 100,000 supporters. There is a membership of about 13,000 members give or take a few. I know that there are more that follow SFW and like what they do that are not members but not 87,000.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

"This will be a critical meeting for those of us who would like to see some accountability and tranparency with regard to the Convention Permits."

AND FIVE BUCKS!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

"You people do understand business right?"

No elk30. These are socialists. Socialists do not know anything about business. One of them even believes %96+%6=%100.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate, Here I will leave you a link. They have 13,000 members, Lots of followers but 13,000 members. http://www.sfw.net/about/

Believe me Tristate, I know a lot more about SFW than you do.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I do believe you birdman. I am just trying to show how all of these websites including the ones that your oponents draw from are full of misleading propoganda even yours.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

OKYDOKY,

So since nobody here likes math, and nobody here with all the data will share it I went and got some for you. Utah issued 86,500 deer permits for 2012. They issued 29,000 elk permits. They issued 100 sheep permits. I could not find Bison , Goat, cougar, or antelope. So just with the three species I have that is a total of 115,600 permits. If the Sfw is getting 200 permits to auction and give away that comes up to a grand total of %.17. Not even close to a full one percent of the big game tags in the state. If the UWC's statistition ,Topgun, is correct that less than %5 of hunters are in the SFW then what would the UWC be afraid of. Less than %5 of the public getting to determine the fate of less than %1 of the total tags in the state???????????? This is looking more and more like an issue of GREED on behalf of the UWC.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Tristate, In some cases I can see where you are coming from but most I can not. You read into things that are not there. No where does it say they have 100,000 followers. NOWHERE. Do you not comprehend?? It says It says that they Directed the PASSION OF 100,000 Sportsmen. Does not say they represent that many.
Topgun, You and I have not agreed upon anything except to say we agree to disagree. For once I am starting to believe you are right about Tristate. He definately does not put out complete truths.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Birdman, what are you talking about I don't put out complete truths. I didn't spin those words the website did. And you know its spin. Can you interpret the what "the passion of 100,000 Sportsmen" is supposed to mean? How do you "direct" someone if they do not follow you. I find it funny that all I did was use your info off of your website, and now I don't tell the complete truth???????????
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Wasn't the original post by Hawkeye asking who will join him on August 16th? I think a few have taken us in another direction. Hawkeye, I will do my best to be there on August 16th.

Good luck!
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I can't make it to the meeting but have sent emails as have my family. Hubby will try to be there if the boss will let him off. Thanmks Hawkeye.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Sorry Hawkeye, I will be out of town that day. Looks like I can not make it.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

Me and all my hunting friends will be there. It's worth a day off work to me.

This is the first of many steps in the right direction!

Thanks Hawkeye for putting so much into this for us all.
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

So is it something we need to pencil out the whole 9-5 work day?
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

No, at this juncture it looks like showing up at about 11 AM and being there until about 1:30-2 PM will allow an individual to be there for the expo tag portion.

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

LAST EDITED ON Aug-01-12 AT 00:44AM (MST)[p]Hawkeye, you are doing some great work.

Just a quick note to the Utah guys. When Arizona hunt opportunity was under attack earlier this year our Game and Fish department setup a meeting to seek comments from the public. I believe over 200 hunters showed up, it seemed like 98% of the crowd was against the tags being taken for auction and raffle. The mix was so unbalanced that the there were few if any pro-grab comments made. It was amazing to see so many people posse up to protect our future even though probably only 25% of them actually got up to speak. Just showing up makes a HUGE difference, you do not have to speak with words to send a message. You may be asked to raise your hand to vote about an issue, nothing sends a message like a room full of raised hands (especially if it is memorialized in video format). This is one meeting that justifies taking the day off if necessary.

You should respond to this thread so Hawkeye and the Utah DWR knows if they need a bigger room, the Arizona Game and Fish department needed to upsize. The UWC proposal seems like a winner so the only effective challenge to it would be if more of the con org guys show up than the real hunters and put up a bluff of some kind. Sure wish I could be there in person to listen to arguments against addtional financial transparency, that one should be a hoot.

Ryan
 
RE: Utah Wildlife Board to Consider the UWC's Proposed Rule Amendment on August 16th - This is Our Opportunity

I think you guys a doing a great job! Even as NR I would be there in a minute if it were at all possible. This pilfering template needs to be extinguished where it started......period! There has to be accountability in the funds generated from these permits.

Thank you for your hard work, good luck, and keep us updated.
 

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Big Velvet Trophy Muley
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