Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
I don't have anything
Watch today's Wildlife Board meeting
- Thread starter Amy
- Start date
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>I don't have anything
Upper left corner just above where it says 'Forums' there's a Red Flag & it says you may have new messages,click on it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Upper left corner just above where it says 'Forums' there's a Red Flag & it says you may have new messages,click on it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
I did and there is nothing there
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bess if I get a chance
>I'll load you up in
>the truck and we'll go
>for a ride. You can
>show me some of your
>honey holes down there!
>
>
>
There Ain't Much to see justr!
But I'm Always up to going for a Ride!
I Wanna see you Get Buck or Bull Fever on them BC PISSCUTTERS!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>I'll load you up in
>the truck and we'll go
>for a ride. You can
>show me some of your
>honey holes down there!
>
>
There Ain't Much to see justr!
But I'm Always up to going for a Ride!
I Wanna see you Get Buck or Bull Fever on them BC PISSCUTTERS!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
There is one thing I'm sure the spike hunts are doing to negatively effect the LE's and that's the B & C scores.
I'll explain.
I'm guessing only around 10% of all bulls have the genetics to reach 380"+ and probably only 30% could ever make it to 350" class.
And if 60% of the spikes are killed on a yearly basis.
Then there's a very good chance that those bulls with the best genetics being killed as spikes and never getting the chance to hit its peak antler growth.
That's why there's a perception that quality is down, although many older age class bulls are being killed each year but just don't score as high as they used to.
Which is driving the likes of Mossback and others crazy.
I'll explain.
I'm guessing only around 10% of all bulls have the genetics to reach 380"+ and probably only 30% could ever make it to 350" class.
And if 60% of the spikes are killed on a yearly basis.
Then there's a very good chance that those bulls with the best genetics being killed as spikes and never getting the chance to hit its peak antler growth.
That's why there's a perception that quality is down, although many older age class bulls are being killed each year but just don't score as high as they used to.
Which is driving the likes of Mossback and others crazy.
>>Bess if I get a chance
>>I'll load you up in
>>the truck and we'll go
>>for a ride. You can
>>show me some of your
>>honey holes down there!
>>
>>
>>
>
>There Ain't Much to see justr!
>
>
>But I'm Always up to going
>for a Ride!
>
>I Wanna see you Get Buck
>or Bull Fever on them
>BC PISSCUTTERS!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
Lol maybe I'll get excited over a coyote.
>>I'll load you up in
>>the truck and we'll go
>>for a ride. You can
>>show me some of your
>>honey holes down there!
>>
>>
>
>There Ain't Much to see justr!
>
>
>But I'm Always up to going
>for a Ride!
>
>I Wanna see you Get Buck
>or Bull Fever on them
>BC PISSCUTTERS!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
Lol maybe I'll get excited over a coyote.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Explain 'older age class Bulls'!
If the Total Average age Class of Bulls could be Honestly Tallied it'd be Perty Damn Sad for an LE Unit!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
If the Total Average age Class of Bulls could be Honestly Tallied it'd be Perty Damn Sad for an LE Unit!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
>
>Explain 'older age class Bulls'!
>
>If the Total Average age Class
>of Bulls could be Honestly
>Tallied it'd be Perty Damn
>Sad for an LE Unit!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
How about doing a little research and looking up the age classes yourself? You seem to have plenty of time on your hands!
see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
>Explain 'older age class Bulls'!
>
>If the Total Average age Class
>of Bulls could be Honestly
>Tallied it'd be Perty Damn
>Sad for an LE Unit!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
How about doing a little research and looking up the age classes yourself? You seem to have plenty of time on your hands!
see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>>
>>Explain 'older age class Bulls'!
>>
>>If the Total Average age Class
>>of Bulls could be Honestly
>>Tallied it'd be Perty Damn
>>Sad for an LE Unit!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>How about doing a little research
>and looking up the age
>classes yourself? You seem to
>have plenty of time on
>your hands!
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
The Numbers Ain't Real Ridge!
SKEWED & SCREWED!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>Explain 'older age class Bulls'!
>>
>>If the Total Average age Class
>>of Bulls could be Honestly
>>Tallied it'd be Perty Damn
>>Sad for an LE Unit!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>How about doing a little research
>and looking up the age
>classes yourself? You seem to
>have plenty of time on
>your hands!
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_
The Numbers Ain't Real Ridge!
SKEWED & SCREWED!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Hey Niller?
The Deal on the Fly-Overs on or not?
There's a couple old Dirt Strips out there We could land on & cook some Lunch!
This is a Friend of Mine 'Herding Elk'!
GAWD How I Wish We had a Chopper!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
The Deal on the Fly-Overs on or not?
There's a couple old Dirt Strips out there We could land on & cook some Lunch!
This is a Friend of Mine 'Herding Elk'!
GAWD How I Wish We had a Chopper!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Dnr doesn't manage for antlers, they can't. They should be managing for a healthy herd and letting the elk do the rest. You can't really get caught up in the what could be when imo the benefits out weigh the chance that this spike might be a 380 bull... when you know for sure it's a legal spike that will be tasty and make someone happy to take it home, while giving opportunity and helping a healthy elk herd.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-18 AT 09:03AM (MST)[p]>>Still slaughtering the elk out there.
>>
>>Even poaching!
>>
>>https://fox13now.com/2018/12/17/officials-seeking-information-after-elk-found-poached-near-vernal/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak.
>>So
>>we must and we will."
>>Theadore Roosevelt
>
>
> Ya!
>
>Seen it many times!
>
>The Cow Killers get perty Wound
>up & Start shooting in
>to a Flock of Elk!
>
>
>Boom!
>
>Nothing Falls!
>
>Boom!
>
>Nothing Falls!
>
>Most of them don't Pick the
>last Animal at the End
>of the Herd/or try to
>stay on the same animal
>so they know which Elk
>they're shooting at!
>
>So somebody add this in to
>the Equation as Well!
Bess,
Or a trophy hunter got bull fever and made a bad shot at a running bull leading his cows or he didn't see the cow behind the standing bull or they were in the trees and he/she couldn't tell if it had antlers or not. Just because it was a poached cow doesn't mean a cow hunter shot it.
And where do you come off stating that MOST of them (cow hunters) don't pick the last animal at the end of the herd/or try to stay on the same animal. Most of them/us are as much or more cautious about what we're shooting at as are the trophy hunters. I don't know what world you came from, but maybe you should use your own space ship to count those Book Cliffs elk.
>>
>>Even poaching!
>>
>>https://fox13now.com/2018/12/17/officials-seeking-information-after-elk-found-poached-near-vernal/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak.
>>So
>>we must and we will."
>>Theadore Roosevelt
>
>
> Ya!
>
>Seen it many times!
>
>The Cow Killers get perty Wound
>up & Start shooting in
>to a Flock of Elk!
>
>
>Boom!
>
>Nothing Falls!
>
>Boom!
>
>Nothing Falls!
>
>Most of them don't Pick the
>last Animal at the End
>of the Herd/or try to
>stay on the same animal
>so they know which Elk
>they're shooting at!
>
>So somebody add this in to
>the Equation as Well!
Bess,
Or a trophy hunter got bull fever and made a bad shot at a running bull leading his cows or he didn't see the cow behind the standing bull or they were in the trees and he/she couldn't tell if it had antlers or not. Just because it was a poached cow doesn't mean a cow hunter shot it.
And where do you come off stating that MOST of them (cow hunters) don't pick the last animal at the end of the herd/or try to stay on the same animal. Most of them/us are as much or more cautious about what we're shooting at as are the trophy hunters. I don't know what world you came from, but maybe you should use your own space ship to count those Book Cliffs elk.
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
>Dnr doesn't manage for antlers, they
>can't. They should be managing
>for a healthy herd and
>letting the elk do the
>rest. You can't really get
>caught up in the what
>could be when imo the
>benefits out weigh the chance
>that this spike might be
>a 380 bull... when you
>know for sure it's a
>legal spike that will be
>tasty and make someone happy
>to take it home, while
>giving opportunity and helping a
>healthy elk herd.
>
>
I completely agree but there are some like elkassign that just don't get it. I used to think he was just uneducated but now I'm wondering if crazy would be a better comparison.
>can't. They should be managing
>for a healthy herd and
>letting the elk do the
>rest. You can't really get
>caught up in the what
>could be when imo the
>benefits out weigh the chance
>that this spike might be
>a 380 bull... when you
>know for sure it's a
>legal spike that will be
>tasty and make someone happy
>to take it home, while
>giving opportunity and helping a
>healthy elk herd.
>
>
I completely agree but there are some like elkassign that just don't get it. I used to think he was just uneducated but now I'm wondering if crazy would be a better comparison.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
So what would you think if we just killed all the spikes every year for the next 10 years what would happen to are bull herds?
This is just a simple uneducated maybe crazy question
This is just a simple uneducated maybe crazy question
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
> So what would you think
>if we just killed all
>the spikes every year for
>the next 10 years what
>would happen to are bull
>herds?
That would be a real problem in 10 years. A real serious problem. But we aren't killing every spike, not even close. So...not sure the question is relevant to the discussion.
>if we just killed all
>the spikes every year for
>the next 10 years what
>would happen to are bull
>herds?
That would be a real problem in 10 years. A real serious problem. But we aren't killing every spike, not even close. So...not sure the question is relevant to the discussion.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>> So what would you think
>>if we just killed all
>>the spikes every year for
>>the next 10 years what
>>would happen to are bull
>>herds?
>
>That would be a real problem
>in 10 years. A real
>serious problem. But we aren't
>killing every spike, not even
>close. So...not sure the question
>is relevant to the discussion.
Hey Niller!
You can't make that Assumption on a Unit You Claim you've never been on!
Of Course they are not Killing every Spike!
They are Killing way more on the BC Unit than you think!
They are Killing way too many!
You're Quick to Reply Claim to ELKSLAYER that in 10 years that would be a Real Problem!
Just to Clue you in,Last Year & Several previous years to that has created a Real Problem!
We Flyin or not?
Answer Please!
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>if we just killed all
>>the spikes every year for
>>the next 10 years what
>>would happen to are bull
>>herds?
>
>That would be a real problem
>in 10 years. A real
>serious problem. But we aren't
>killing every spike, not even
>close. So...not sure the question
>is relevant to the discussion.
Hey Niller!
You can't make that Assumption on a Unit You Claim you've never been on!
Of Course they are not Killing every Spike!
They are Killing way more on the BC Unit than you think!
They are Killing way too many!
You're Quick to Reply Claim to ELKSLAYER that in 10 years that would be a Real Problem!
Just to Clue you in,Last Year & Several previous years to that has created a Real Problem!
We Flyin or not?
Answer Please!
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-18 AT 06:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-18 AT 05:53?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-18 AT 05:52?PM (MST)
Okay that's what I was trying to point out so spike hunting can be a problem if it's not manage correctly
So I have spent a lot of time in the books this last five years
I have been on the Manti,Wasatch,beaver,panguitch,diamond mountain and 3 corners units
The books is more accessible than any other unit There is wide open country everywhere which is really easy to kill any big game animal there are roads on almost every ridge looking down into canyons Roads are everywhere out there
So nobody can sit here and say we have been killing spikes for 30 years on the other units the books is a different animal nothing like the other units.
They open up spike hunting in 2009 so that's only ten years It takes time to make it bad and I think from what I seen and from what everyone else has seen that lives here in the basin It's a problem we passed to stop hunting spike in the book cliffs in the northeastern rack and it failed at the board in SLC they need to listen to the locals
I've watched it go down since 2016 I know it was bad when I was out there I had cameras set first weekend in June till the end of the archery hunt we had them set from the divide at rail road,2 waters,kings wells,big park,cooper canyon,Achtee ridge,wolfden,Rectorridge,boulevard,Rathole, I had hundreds of cows and calves lots of rag horns 2 340 bulls and 10 or so 300-320 bulls I bet I only had 20 spikes total I cover a ton of ground with cameras and I only seen 6 spikes while hunting I'm almost positive the 6 I seen where the ones on I had on camera
last year was even worse I knew 5 hunters that had 30 cameras going and they told me there wasn't very many spikes at all 2 hunters didn't even see a spike and these hunters covered more area than I did the biggest bull that was seen during the archery hunt was a 360 the rest where 300 bulls rag horns they hunted there butts off and seen a ton of elk but very few bulls the one guy killed a 300 6 point the rest came home with tag soup
now the harvest age objective has came out for 2017 it dropped from 7.8 to 6.2 out of a 145 bulls that got harvested that's quite the drop
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-18 AT 05:52?PM (MST)
Okay that's what I was trying to point out so spike hunting can be a problem if it's not manage correctly
So I have spent a lot of time in the books this last five years
I have been on the Manti,Wasatch,beaver,panguitch,diamond mountain and 3 corners units
The books is more accessible than any other unit There is wide open country everywhere which is really easy to kill any big game animal there are roads on almost every ridge looking down into canyons Roads are everywhere out there
So nobody can sit here and say we have been killing spikes for 30 years on the other units the books is a different animal nothing like the other units.
They open up spike hunting in 2009 so that's only ten years It takes time to make it bad and I think from what I seen and from what everyone else has seen that lives here in the basin It's a problem we passed to stop hunting spike in the book cliffs in the northeastern rack and it failed at the board in SLC they need to listen to the locals
I've watched it go down since 2016 I know it was bad when I was out there I had cameras set first weekend in June till the end of the archery hunt we had them set from the divide at rail road,2 waters,kings wells,big park,cooper canyon,Achtee ridge,wolfden,Rectorridge,boulevard,Rathole, I had hundreds of cows and calves lots of rag horns 2 340 bulls and 10 or so 300-320 bulls I bet I only had 20 spikes total I cover a ton of ground with cameras and I only seen 6 spikes while hunting I'm almost positive the 6 I seen where the ones on I had on camera
last year was even worse I knew 5 hunters that had 30 cameras going and they told me there wasn't very many spikes at all 2 hunters didn't even see a spike and these hunters covered more area than I did the biggest bull that was seen during the archery hunt was a 360 the rest where 300 bulls rag horns they hunted there butts off and seen a ton of elk but very few bulls the one guy killed a 300 6 point the rest came home with tag soup
now the harvest age objective has came out for 2017 it dropped from 7.8 to 6.2 out of a 145 bulls that got harvested that's quite the drop
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
Bessy, you say that they are killing more than I think when all I said is they aren't killing every spike, which you agreed with. So you agree with me, but I'm still wrong? Got it. I already tried to take you on a flight and you whined about it being cold. Make up your mind!
Slayer, I still think you're misdiagnosing the issue. You?ve shown a variety of numbers in this thread, all have proven to not show what you said it did in the post. Your spikes your seeing on camera, or the lack thereof, from June to the archery hunt have nothing to do with the spike hunt. If they were spikes last year, they would not be spikes this year. So the spike hunt last year has no bearing on how many spikes you see this year. Those are all the next crop, which have nothing to do with the spike hunt the year before.
We can go round and round the mulberry Bush all we want, but you've still yet to show a single data point that says spike hunting is the culprit. Whatever is ailing the Book Cliffs, it isn't spike hunting. It would be much better to figure out the cause of the noticed decline and attack that. Or you can take away hunting opportunities from people and still not fix anything. I guess you can choose what you want.
Slayer, I still think you're misdiagnosing the issue. You?ve shown a variety of numbers in this thread, all have proven to not show what you said it did in the post. Your spikes your seeing on camera, or the lack thereof, from June to the archery hunt have nothing to do with the spike hunt. If they were spikes last year, they would not be spikes this year. So the spike hunt last year has no bearing on how many spikes you see this year. Those are all the next crop, which have nothing to do with the spike hunt the year before.
We can go round and round the mulberry Bush all we want, but you've still yet to show a single data point that says spike hunting is the culprit. Whatever is ailing the Book Cliffs, it isn't spike hunting. It would be much better to figure out the cause of the noticed decline and attack that. Or you can take away hunting opportunities from people and still not fix anything. I guess you can choose what you want.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bessy, you say that they are
>killing more than I think
>when all I said is
>they aren't killing every spike,
>which you agreed with. So
>you agree with me, but
>I'm still wrong? Got it.
>I already tried to take
>you on a flight and
>you whined about it being
>cold. Make up your mind!
>
>
>Slayer, I still think you're misdiagnosing
>the issue. You?ve shown a
>variety of numbers in this
>thread, all have proven to
>not show what you said
>it did in the post.
>Your spikes your seeing on
>camera, or the lack thereof,
>from June to the archery
>hunt have nothing to do
>with the spike hunt. If
>they were spikes last year,
>they would not be spikes
>this year. So the spike
>hunt last year has no
>bearing on how many spikes
>you see this year. Those
>are all the next crop,
>which have nothing to do
>with the spike hunt the
>year before.
>
>We can go round and round
>the mulberry Bush all we
>want, but you've still yet
>to show a single data
>point that says spike hunting
>is the culprit. Whatever is
>ailing the Book Cliffs, it
>isn't spike hunting. It would
>be much better to figure
>out the cause of the
>noticed decline and attack that.
>Or you can take away
>hunting opportunities from people and
>still not fix anything. I
>guess you can choose what
>you want.
Hey Niller!
If You're Tying me underneath the Plane then Yes I'm gonna Whine!
You Serious about having your own plane or not?
I'm ready to Fly!
And Count!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>killing more than I think
>when all I said is
>they aren't killing every spike,
>which you agreed with. So
>you agree with me, but
>I'm still wrong? Got it.
>I already tried to take
>you on a flight and
>you whined about it being
>cold. Make up your mind!
>
>
>Slayer, I still think you're misdiagnosing
>the issue. You?ve shown a
>variety of numbers in this
>thread, all have proven to
>not show what you said
>it did in the post.
>Your spikes your seeing on
>camera, or the lack thereof,
>from June to the archery
>hunt have nothing to do
>with the spike hunt. If
>they were spikes last year,
>they would not be spikes
>this year. So the spike
>hunt last year has no
>bearing on how many spikes
>you see this year. Those
>are all the next crop,
>which have nothing to do
>with the spike hunt the
>year before.
>
>We can go round and round
>the mulberry Bush all we
>want, but you've still yet
>to show a single data
>point that says spike hunting
>is the culprit. Whatever is
>ailing the Book Cliffs, it
>isn't spike hunting. It would
>be much better to figure
>out the cause of the
>noticed decline and attack that.
>Or you can take away
>hunting opportunities from people and
>still not fix anything. I
>guess you can choose what
>you want.
Hey Niller!
If You're Tying me underneath the Plane then Yes I'm gonna Whine!
You Serious about having your own plane or not?
I'm ready to Fly!
And Count!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
Killing too many spikes! Killing too many big bulls! Killing too many cows! Really? Per the annual reports (link posted on post 77), the Book Cliffs' elk harvest numbers are:
2009 - 186 LE Bulls - 112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
2010 - 182 LE Bulls - 160 Spikes - 84 Antlerless
2011 - 179 LE Bulls - 101 Spikes - 58 Antlerless
2012 - 138 LE Bulls - 112 Spikes - 99 Antlerless
2013 - 155 LE Bulls - 175 Spikes - 83 Antlerless
2014 - 152 LE Bulls - 103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
2015 - 147 LE Bulls - 165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
2016 - 139 LE Bulls - 271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
2017 - 145 LE Bulls - 235 Spikes - 97 Antlerless
Maybe the age class is falling, but the population numbers are rising. So, now what?
2009 - 186 LE Bulls - 112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
2010 - 182 LE Bulls - 160 Spikes - 84 Antlerless
2011 - 179 LE Bulls - 101 Spikes - 58 Antlerless
2012 - 138 LE Bulls - 112 Spikes - 99 Antlerless
2013 - 155 LE Bulls - 175 Spikes - 83 Antlerless
2014 - 152 LE Bulls - 103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
2015 - 147 LE Bulls - 165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
2016 - 139 LE Bulls - 271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
2017 - 145 LE Bulls - 235 Spikes - 97 Antlerless
Maybe the age class is falling, but the population numbers are rising. So, now what?
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,870
>Killing too many spikes! Killing too
>many big bulls! Killing too
>many cows! Really? Per the
>annual reports (link posted on
>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>elk harvest numbers are:
>
>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>
>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>160 Spikes - 84
>Antlerless
>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>101 Spikes - 58
>Antlerless
>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 99
>Antlerless
>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>175 Spikes - 83
>Antlerless
>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>
>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>
>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>
>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>235 Spikes - 97
>Antlerless
>
>Maybe the age class is falling,
>but the population numbers are
>rising. So, now what?
Well efa, not everyone who hunts gets surveyed.. In 2016 as stated above there were 3 spikes not accounted for in that number, I'm sure there's a lot more not accounted for...
>many big bulls! Killing too
>many cows! Really? Per the
>annual reports (link posted on
>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>elk harvest numbers are:
>
>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>
>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>160 Spikes - 84
>Antlerless
>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>101 Spikes - 58
>Antlerless
>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 99
>Antlerless
>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>175 Spikes - 83
>Antlerless
>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>
>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>
>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>
>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>235 Spikes - 97
>Antlerless
>
>Maybe the age class is falling,
>but the population numbers are
>rising. So, now what?
Well efa, not everyone who hunts gets surveyed.. In 2016 as stated above there were 3 spikes not accounted for in that number, I'm sure there's a lot more not accounted for...
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Killing too many spikes! Killing too
>many big bulls! Killing too
>many cows! Really? Per the
>annual reports (link posted on
>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>elk harvest numbers are:
>
>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>
>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>160 Spikes - 84
>Antlerless
>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>101 Spikes - 58
>Antlerless
>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 99
>Antlerless
>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>175 Spikes - 83
>Antlerless
>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>
>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>
>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>
>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>235 Spikes - 97
>Antlerless
>
>Maybe the age class is falling,
>but the population numbers are
>rising. So, now what?
>
>
Hey efa!
Before Babling your BS You may wanna get the REAL Numbers!
Maybe come up with the TOTAL Number of Elk left on the Unit(As Close as You Can!) & Compare that Number to what their Should Be!
Some of you don't Have a Clue on or about the Unit but You Keep pulling numbers to Help make things look OK!
Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder turning in Harvest Surveys Your Numbers Mean NOTHING & are WORTHLESS!
If Population Numbers Are Rising as You Think & Claim they are!
I'm Willing to Place a Bet right here & Right Now saying even the DWR's Total Herd Objective numbers are down below the objective!
How Much money you wanna Wager efa?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>many big bulls! Killing too
>many cows! Really? Per the
>annual reports (link posted on
>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>elk harvest numbers are:
>
>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>
>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>160 Spikes - 84
>Antlerless
>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>101 Spikes - 58
>Antlerless
>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>112 Spikes - 99
>Antlerless
>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>175 Spikes - 83
>Antlerless
>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>
>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>
>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>
>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>235 Spikes - 97
>Antlerless
>
>Maybe the age class is falling,
>but the population numbers are
>rising. So, now what?
>
>
Hey efa!
Before Babling your BS You may wanna get the REAL Numbers!
Maybe come up with the TOTAL Number of Elk left on the Unit(As Close as You Can!) & Compare that Number to what their Should Be!
Some of you don't Have a Clue on or about the Unit but You Keep pulling numbers to Help make things look OK!
Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder turning in Harvest Surveys Your Numbers Mean NOTHING & are WORTHLESS!
If Population Numbers Are Rising as You Think & Claim they are!
I'm Willing to Place a Bet right here & Right Now saying even the DWR's Total Herd Objective numbers are down below the objective!
How Much money you wanna Wager efa?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Kind of Interesting that The Northern Ute Tribe Reservation that Borders the Book Cliffs can see what's been Happening & They've cut way back on Tags because they CARE!
But The White Man running the Management just across the Border/Fence can't see the Light!
PERTY DAMN SAD RIGHT THERE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
But The White Man running the Management just across the Border/Fence can't see the Light!
PERTY DAMN SAD RIGHT THERE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
>>Killing too many spikes! Killing too
>>many big bulls! Killing too
>>many cows! Really? Per the
>>annual reports (link posted on
>>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>>elk harvest numbers are:
>>
>>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>>
>>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>>160 Spikes - 84
>>Antlerless
>>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>>101 Spikes - 58
>>Antlerless
>>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 99
>>Antlerless
>>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>>175 Spikes - 83
>>Antlerless
>>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>>
>>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>>
>>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>>
>>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>>235 Spikes - 97
>>Antlerless
>>
>>Maybe the age class is falling,
>>but the population numbers are
>>rising. So, now what?
>
>
>Well efa, not everyone who hunts
>gets surveyed.. In 2016 as
>stated above there were 3
>spikes not accounted for in
>that number, I'm sure there's
>a lot more not accounted
>for...
That's why I said, "So, now what?" I know they don't survey everybody and that's one reason I've said in my other posts that they should have a mandatory report for EVERY tag.
And I knew the 2016 spike number was off (by 2, not 3), but that was the only one I found, so we have know way of knowing how many, if any, are not accounted for. And, also, the antlerless numbers include some calves that may be males, bur we have no way of knowing that either without the mandatory report.
But, with those numbers, are we shooting too many bulls, spikes and/or cows/calves? And are we looking for the right biological numbers or social numbers?
>>many big bulls! Killing too
>>many cows! Really? Per the
>>annual reports (link posted on
>>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>>elk harvest numbers are:
>>
>>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>>
>>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>>160 Spikes - 84
>>Antlerless
>>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>>101 Spikes - 58
>>Antlerless
>>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 99
>>Antlerless
>>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>>175 Spikes - 83
>>Antlerless
>>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>>
>>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>>
>>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>>
>>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>>235 Spikes - 97
>>Antlerless
>>
>>Maybe the age class is falling,
>>but the population numbers are
>>rising. So, now what?
>
>
>Well efa, not everyone who hunts
>gets surveyed.. In 2016 as
>stated above there were 3
>spikes not accounted for in
>that number, I'm sure there's
>a lot more not accounted
>for...
That's why I said, "So, now what?" I know they don't survey everybody and that's one reason I've said in my other posts that they should have a mandatory report for EVERY tag.
And I knew the 2016 spike number was off (by 2, not 3), but that was the only one I found, so we have know way of knowing how many, if any, are not accounted for. And, also, the antlerless numbers include some calves that may be males, bur we have no way of knowing that either without the mandatory report.
But, with those numbers, are we shooting too many bulls, spikes and/or cows/calves? And are we looking for the right biological numbers or social numbers?
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
"Hey efa!
Before Babling your BS You may wanna get the REAL Numbers!
Maybe come up with the TOTAL Number of Elk left on the Unit(As Close as You Can!) & Compare that Number to what their Should Be!
Some of you don't Have a Clue on or about the Unit but You Keep pulling numbers to Help make things look OK!
Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder turning in Harvest Surveys Your Numbers Mean NOTHING & are WORTHLESS!"
Hey Bessy, do you see the irony in this statement at all? You're criticizing the numbers that are published as worthless because they don't account for 100% of the tag holders, yet you are expecting us to accept your numbers as gospel truth, when you can't account for ANY tag holders. Just seems ironic to me.
When my plane is ready, I'll take you for a flight. I might even let you ride inside. Maybe...
Before Babling your BS You may wanna get the REAL Numbers!
Maybe come up with the TOTAL Number of Elk left on the Unit(As Close as You Can!) & Compare that Number to what their Should Be!
Some of you don't Have a Clue on or about the Unit but You Keep pulling numbers to Help make things look OK!
Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder turning in Harvest Surveys Your Numbers Mean NOTHING & are WORTHLESS!"
Hey Bessy, do you see the irony in this statement at all? You're criticizing the numbers that are published as worthless because they don't account for 100% of the tag holders, yet you are expecting us to accept your numbers as gospel truth, when you can't account for ANY tag holders. Just seems ironic to me.
When my plane is ready, I'll take you for a flight. I might even let you ride inside. Maybe...
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>"Hey efa!
>
>Before Babling your BS You may
>wanna get the REAL Numbers!
>
>
>Maybe come up with the TOTAL
>Number of Elk left on
>the Unit(As Close as You
>Can!) & Compare that Number
>to what their Should Be!
>
>
>Some of you don't Have a
>Clue on or about the
>Unit but You Keep pulling
>numbers to Help make things
>look OK!
>
>Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder
>turning in Harvest Surveys Your
>Numbers Mean NOTHING & are
>WORTHLESS!"
>
>Hey Bessy, do you see the
>irony in this statement at
>all? You're criticizing the numbers
>that are published as worthless
>because they don't account for
>100% of the tag holders,
>yet you are expecting us
>to accept your numbers as
>gospel truth, when you can't
>account for ANY tag holders.
>Just seems ironic to me.
>
>
>When my plane is ready, I'll
>take you for a flight.
>I might even let you
>ride inside. Maybe...
Hey Niller!
Show me Where I posted exact numbers?
And Do Tell Me?
What Good are FAKE Numbers?
Get Your Plane Fired Up!
I'll Show you how to get to the Unit Since you don't know!
And I'll Have You Show Me all the Gold!
I Offered you a Fair of a Deal as there is in an above Post!
As Sure As You are of yourself You Can't Lose & I'll be buying all the Fuel!
Let's GIT-R-DONE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Before Babling your BS You may
>wanna get the REAL Numbers!
>
>
>Maybe come up with the TOTAL
>Number of Elk left on
>the Unit(As Close as You
>Can!) & Compare that Number
>to what their Should Be!
>
>
>Some of you don't Have a
>Clue on or about the
>Unit but You Keep pulling
>numbers to Help make things
>look OK!
>
>Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder
>turning in Harvest Surveys Your
>Numbers Mean NOTHING & are
>WORTHLESS!"
>
>Hey Bessy, do you see the
>irony in this statement at
>all? You're criticizing the numbers
>that are published as worthless
>because they don't account for
>100% of the tag holders,
>yet you are expecting us
>to accept your numbers as
>gospel truth, when you can't
>account for ANY tag holders.
>Just seems ironic to me.
>
>
>When my plane is ready, I'll
>take you for a flight.
>I might even let you
>ride inside. Maybe...
Hey Niller!
Show me Where I posted exact numbers?
And Do Tell Me?
What Good are FAKE Numbers?
Get Your Plane Fired Up!
I'll Show you how to get to the Unit Since you don't know!
And I'll Have You Show Me all the Gold!
I Offered you a Fair of a Deal as there is in an above Post!
As Sure As You are of yourself You Can't Lose & I'll be buying all the Fuel!
Let's GIT-R-DONE!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-18 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-18 AT 03:55?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-18 AT 03:53?PM (MST)
Okay vanilla I know the unit very well and all of the basin knows the unit very well and they see the problem a lot of these people have been here there whole lives and they have notice a decline on bulls that's why they voted to stop spike hunting and it passed in the rack
so before you can say it's not a spike problem and you have never step foot on the place It's really kind of hard for you to tell anyone It's not a spike problem but the numbers are close yeah there not dead on and they will never be but the harvest on big bulls is pretty dam accurate and the bull to cow ratio is what came off of the DWR web sight so where pretty close on how many bulls are out there but the spike harvest number are not even close and neither is how many spike hunters where out there but we know for a fact It's higher than what they put on their web page
Age class is falling because where killing off are future bulls we keep harvesting all are older bulls and not bringing in enough bulls back in to keep are Mature class bulls up.
so from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1423 big bulls this is accurate
from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1434 spikes and this number is low because they only do 25% survey and its not mandatory it will be higher and that's a fact
just showing this because we are killing more spikes in a 9 year period than we are big bulls we do know the spike harvest number is higher especially over a 9 year period
This is the total hunter's afield and this is accurate
spike hunters - big bull - total
2009 - 363 - 236 - 599
2010 - 568 - 248 - 816
2011 - 549 - 205 - 754
2012 - 590 - 199 - 789
2013 - 777 - 201 - 978
2014 - 729 - 189 - 918
2015 - 649 - 192 - 841
2016 - 959 - 199 - 1158
2017 - 1061 - 214 - 1275
Okay the reason for this is you can clearly see how many spike hunters are running around and only having a 25% survey is not going to tell the truth how many where there or how many got harvested It's definitely higher then what they say
look at the big bull from 2009-2010 they cut tags
2011- 2017 the number on big bull tags stayed pretty consistent so why in 2011 did they cut tags to allow the spike hunt to come in because they knew there was going to be a drop in bulls they didn't cut tags because of harvest age objective or was it because of bull to cow ratio or was it because they where growing the herd who knows what the reasoning was
we have a bull problem and It's a spike problem are age group fell off pretty good in 2017 you can see that the herd has been growing but where not adding any more bull tags It's because too many spikes are getting killed...
The population will grow where not killing that many cows on that unit and there still a lot of younger bulls to breed them just not many mature bulls the mature bulls are getting killed off just as fast as they become mature but their way of fixing this is by cutting big bull tags to bring the age back up you don't need to cut tags they need to manage spike hunting better and then they could add more tags
SO LET ME GUESS VANILLA YOUR A SPIKE HUNTER IT'S A SPIKE PROBLEM
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-18 AT 03:53?PM (MST)
Okay vanilla I know the unit very well and all of the basin knows the unit very well and they see the problem a lot of these people have been here there whole lives and they have notice a decline on bulls that's why they voted to stop spike hunting and it passed in the rack
so before you can say it's not a spike problem and you have never step foot on the place It's really kind of hard for you to tell anyone It's not a spike problem but the numbers are close yeah there not dead on and they will never be but the harvest on big bulls is pretty dam accurate and the bull to cow ratio is what came off of the DWR web sight so where pretty close on how many bulls are out there but the spike harvest number are not even close and neither is how many spike hunters where out there but we know for a fact It's higher than what they put on their web page
Age class is falling because where killing off are future bulls we keep harvesting all are older bulls and not bringing in enough bulls back in to keep are Mature class bulls up.
so from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1423 big bulls this is accurate
from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1434 spikes and this number is low because they only do 25% survey and its not mandatory it will be higher and that's a fact
just showing this because we are killing more spikes in a 9 year period than we are big bulls we do know the spike harvest number is higher especially over a 9 year period
This is the total hunter's afield and this is accurate
spike hunters - big bull - total
2009 - 363 - 236 - 599
2010 - 568 - 248 - 816
2011 - 549 - 205 - 754
2012 - 590 - 199 - 789
2013 - 777 - 201 - 978
2014 - 729 - 189 - 918
2015 - 649 - 192 - 841
2016 - 959 - 199 - 1158
2017 - 1061 - 214 - 1275
Okay the reason for this is you can clearly see how many spike hunters are running around and only having a 25% survey is not going to tell the truth how many where there or how many got harvested It's definitely higher then what they say
look at the big bull from 2009-2010 they cut tags
2011- 2017 the number on big bull tags stayed pretty consistent so why in 2011 did they cut tags to allow the spike hunt to come in because they knew there was going to be a drop in bulls they didn't cut tags because of harvest age objective or was it because of bull to cow ratio or was it because they where growing the herd who knows what the reasoning was
we have a bull problem and It's a spike problem are age group fell off pretty good in 2017 you can see that the herd has been growing but where not adding any more bull tags It's because too many spikes are getting killed...
The population will grow where not killing that many cows on that unit and there still a lot of younger bulls to breed them just not many mature bulls the mature bulls are getting killed off just as fast as they become mature but their way of fixing this is by cutting big bull tags to bring the age back up you don't need to cut tags they need to manage spike hunting better and then they could add more tags
SO LET ME GUESS VANILLA YOUR A SPIKE HUNTER IT'S A SPIKE PROBLEM
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
I've been big game hunting with tags in hand for ~25 years. I've possessed spike tags two of those years, and have yet to fill those tags. Does that make me a ?SPIKE HUNTER?? If so, then I guess I am. I haven't decided if I'm doing spike or any bull next year, so maybe we should wait to label me until July? Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to killing a spike on an any bull tag, so maybe I am a ?SPIKE HUNTER??
The reason why I've been outspoken here is because the claims don't pass muster. How many times have you posted ?conclusive? data, only to come back and admit you have interpreted it wrong when someone points out the errors? It's happened at least twice in this very thread, maybe more? Data is important. It's not perfect, but it's important. Much more so than anecdotal information that doesn't have any more backing.
The reason why I've been outspoken here is because the claims don't pass muster. How many times have you posted ?conclusive? data, only to come back and admit you have interpreted it wrong when someone points out the errors? It's happened at least twice in this very thread, maybe more? Data is important. It's not perfect, but it's important. Much more so than anecdotal information that doesn't have any more backing.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>I've been big game hunting with
>tags in hand for ~25
>years. I've possessed spike tags
>two of those years, and
>have yet to fill those
>tags. Does that make me
>a ?SPIKE HUNTER?? If so,
>then I guess I am.
>I haven't decided if I'm
>doing spike or any bull
>next year, so maybe we
>should wait to label me
>until July? Then again, I
>wouldn't be opposed to killing
>a spike on an any
>bull tag, so maybe I
>am a ?SPIKE HUNTER??
>
>The reason why I've been outspoken
>here is because the claims
>don't pass muster. How many
>times have you posted ?conclusive?
>data, only to come back
>and admit you have interpreted
>it wrong when someone points
>out the errors? It's happened
>at least twice in this
>very thread, maybe more? Data
>is important. It's not perfect,
>but it's important. Much more
>so than anecdotal information that
>doesn't have any more backing.
>
It is Important Niller!
But Don't you Think in todays Day & Age We Should have Factual Numbers rather than the Numbers efa Reads as Gospel?
I'm Serious about the Plane Ride Niller!
Get it Fixed & Quick!
You Need To See with your Own Eyes!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>tags in hand for ~25
>years. I've possessed spike tags
>two of those years, and
>have yet to fill those
>tags. Does that make me
>a ?SPIKE HUNTER?? If so,
>then I guess I am.
>I haven't decided if I'm
>doing spike or any bull
>next year, so maybe we
>should wait to label me
>until July? Then again, I
>wouldn't be opposed to killing
>a spike on an any
>bull tag, so maybe I
>am a ?SPIKE HUNTER??
>
>The reason why I've been outspoken
>here is because the claims
>don't pass muster. How many
>times have you posted ?conclusive?
>data, only to come back
>and admit you have interpreted
>it wrong when someone points
>out the errors? It's happened
>at least twice in this
>very thread, maybe more? Data
>is important. It's not perfect,
>but it's important. Much more
>so than anecdotal information that
>doesn't have any more backing.
>
It is Important Niller!
But Don't you Think in todays Day & Age We Should have Factual Numbers rather than the Numbers efa Reads as Gospel?
I'm Serious about the Plane Ride Niller!
Get it Fixed & Quick!
You Need To See with your Own Eyes!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
>>Killing too many spikes! Killing too
>>many big bulls! Killing too
>>many cows! Really? Per the
>>annual reports (link posted on
>>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>>elk harvest numbers are:
>>
>>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>>
>>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>>160 Spikes - 84
>>Antlerless
>>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>>101 Spikes - 58
>>Antlerless
>>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 99
>>Antlerless
>>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>>175 Spikes - 83
>>Antlerless
>>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>>
>>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>>
>>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>>
>>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>>235 Spikes - 97
>>Antlerless
>>
>>Maybe the age class is falling,
>>but the population numbers are
>>rising. So, now what?
>>
>>
>
>
>Hey efa!
>
>Before Babling your BS You may
>wanna get the REAL Numbers!
>
>
>Maybe come up with the TOTAL
>Number of Elk left on
>the Unit(As Close as You
>Can!) & Compare that Number
>to what their Should Be!
>
>
>Some of you don't Have a
>Clue on or about the
>Unit but You Keep pulling
>numbers to Help make things
>look OK!
>
>Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder
>turning in Harvest Surveys Your
>Numbers Mean NOTHING & are
>WORTHLESS!
>
>If Population Numbers Are Rising as
>You Think & Claim they
>are!
>
>I'm Willing to Place a Bet
>right here & Right Now
>saying even the DWR's Total
>Herd Objective numbers are down
>below the objective!
>
>How Much money you wanna Wager
>efa?
>
Since those numbers are not MY numbers and since I couldn't do anything about them if they were, I think I'll just pass along this post to the DWR. The numbers are theirs and they can do something about them if they wish. And maybe they'll take you up on your wager if they can figure out what you're talking about.
Now, FWIW, the unit objective is 7,500 wintering elk and, since 2013, the population has gone from 4,000 to 4,800 in 2014, to 5,500 in 2015, to 5,600 in 2016, to 6,300 in 2017. So it's probably still below objective, but growing, which is what I said.
Also, I agree with you that there should be a harvest report for every tag (see posts 110, 119, 132). I also advocated for mandatory reporting on the Mule Deer Management Committee, but the DWR said they don't need to survey everybody to get information accurate enough to manage wildlife. So that's why I will advocate for it based on what the hunters need, not what the DWR needs. You're beginning to sound like a Texas Taxidermist I've had several discussions with. He even wants to argue about stuff we agree on.
>>many big bulls! Killing too
>>many cows! Really? Per the
>>annual reports (link posted on
>>post 77), the Book Cliffs'
>>elk harvest numbers are:
>>
>>2009 - 186 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 113 Antlerless
>>
>>2010 - 182 LE Bulls -
>>160 Spikes - 84
>>Antlerless
>>2011 - 179 LE Bulls -
>>101 Spikes - 58
>>Antlerless
>>2012 - 138 LE Bulls -
>>112 Spikes - 99
>>Antlerless
>>2013 - 155 LE Bulls -
>>175 Spikes - 83
>>Antlerless
>>2014 - 152 LE Bulls -
>>103 Spikes - 114 Antlerless
>>
>>2015 - 147 LE Bulls -
>>165 Spikes - 109 Antlerless
>>
>>2016 - 139 LE Bulls -
>>271 Spikes - 117 Antlerless
>>
>>2017 - 145 LE Bulls -
>>235 Spikes - 97
>>Antlerless
>>
>>Maybe the age class is falling,
>>but the population numbers are
>>rising. So, now what?
>>
>>
>
>
>Hey efa!
>
>Before Babling your BS You may
>wanna get the REAL Numbers!
>
>
>Maybe come up with the TOTAL
>Number of Elk left on
>the Unit(As Close as You
>Can!) & Compare that Number
>to what their Should Be!
>
>
>Some of you don't Have a
>Clue on or about the
>Unit but You Keep pulling
>numbers to Help make things
>look OK!
>
>Until You get 100%/Every Tag Holder
>turning in Harvest Surveys Your
>Numbers Mean NOTHING & are
>WORTHLESS!
>
>If Population Numbers Are Rising as
>You Think & Claim they
>are!
>
>I'm Willing to Place a Bet
>right here & Right Now
>saying even the DWR's Total
>Herd Objective numbers are down
>below the objective!
>
>How Much money you wanna Wager
>efa?
>
Since those numbers are not MY numbers and since I couldn't do anything about them if they were, I think I'll just pass along this post to the DWR. The numbers are theirs and they can do something about them if they wish. And maybe they'll take you up on your wager if they can figure out what you're talking about.
Now, FWIW, the unit objective is 7,500 wintering elk and, since 2013, the population has gone from 4,000 to 4,800 in 2014, to 5,500 in 2015, to 5,600 in 2016, to 6,300 in 2017. So it's probably still below objective, but growing, which is what I said.
Also, I agree with you that there should be a harvest report for every tag (see posts 110, 119, 132). I also advocated for mandatory reporting on the Mule Deer Management Committee, but the DWR said they don't need to survey everybody to get information accurate enough to manage wildlife. So that's why I will advocate for it based on what the hunters need, not what the DWR needs. You're beginning to sound like a Texas Taxidermist I've had several discussions with. He even wants to argue about stuff we agree on.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,135
Bessie and slayer
How do you know if the number of spikes killed would be higher if the DWR maide it mandatory full accounting of all spike hunters. Maybe the 25 percent the DWR call for there survey was the lucky ones and make it a higher percent successful.
Yes slayer some people do enjoy the spike hunt that does not make them wrong.
Take away spike hunting, decrease the general deer tags let's see how many hunters are left in Utah. Utah is not exactly a hot bed for hunting low in waterfowl numbers especially during drought years, pheasant population is all but gone we do not have white tails hiding in every grove of trees. So tell me how do you promote hunting in Utah.
How do you know if the number of spikes killed would be higher if the DWR maide it mandatory full accounting of all spike hunters. Maybe the 25 percent the DWR call for there survey was the lucky ones and make it a higher percent successful.
Yes slayer some people do enjoy the spike hunt that does not make them wrong.
Take away spike hunting, decrease the general deer tags let's see how many hunters are left in Utah. Utah is not exactly a hot bed for hunting low in waterfowl numbers especially during drought years, pheasant population is all but gone we do not have white tails hiding in every grove of trees. So tell me how do you promote hunting in Utah.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bessie and slayer
>How do you know if the
>number of spikes killed would
>be higher if the DWR
>maide it mandatory full accounting
>of all spike hunters. Maybe
>the 25 percent the DWR
>call for there survey was
>the lucky ones and make
>it a higher percent successful.
>
>Yes slayer some people do enjoy
>the spike hunt that does
>not make them wrong.
>Take away spike hunting, decrease the
>general deer tags let's see
>how many hunters are left
>in Utah. Utah is not
>exactly a hot bed for
>hunting low in waterfowl numbers
>especially during drought years, pheasant
>population is all but gone
>we do not have white
>tails hiding in every grove
>of trees. So tell me
>how do you promote hunting
>in Utah.
Well notdon!
LE Units were Not Set-Up to become a SPIKE/COW FEST SLAUGHTER!
They were originally set up for Sportsmen that were willing to wait for a Tag & when that time come around they'd have a chance at Hunting some better Quality Animals!
Don't know how Old you are?
But it took some time to build Quality in the LE Units!
It didn't happen over night!
Utah can Damn sure Produce Trophy Bucks & Bulls when managed Properly!
But!
As Soon as the LE Units started Producing Quality Elk,Damn Near every Joe Blow in the State wanted a piece of the Pie!
Well that's Fine!
But take your Turn!
Opportunists started screaming!
The Pro's (DWR!) supposedly managing Our Game Herds Give in & Start lowering Age Class objectives so they can sell more Tags that Equals Nothing more than GREED!
Then the STUPIDEST Thing you could ever do is start Selling all these Spike/Cow Tags,AKA Our Future Big Bulls!
You'd Have to be a Blind Bastard not to see this!
And No notdon that Ain't directed at you!
In about 2003-2004 Our LE Elk units were Showing some Nice Progress & by about 2006 and for several more Years We achieved what the Units were set up for,A chance for Sportsmen that Played the Game,some waiting many years to finally draw,but they knew when they finally drew their tag, they had a Perty Damn Good Hunt ahead of them with a Nice Chance at a Trophy Bull,Still not a Guarantee,it's Hunting,or for some Jack-ASSES claiming Shooting Fish in a Barrel because they didn't play the Game & it comes with an Attitude,Tough Titty!
Why on GAWDS Green Earth You'd Destroy Quality I Haven't a Clue!
Wait a Minute!
Would it be GREED?
Let's Start Selling Every Calve,Spike,Cow,Big Bull,Little Bull,Medium Bull equaling nothing More than QUICK CASH!
I've Screamed for Years to get 2 or 3 Units set up for the PISSCUTTER/Spike Killers!
Manage them as You F'N Please!
Kill every F'N Elk within them 2 or 3 Units if you Please!
But after it's Done/Destroyed don't come BAWLING wanting in on Trophy LE Elk units just to appease your Blood Thirsty Goal of saying:I Filled My Tag,I Shot a Spike,I Shot a Cow,I Shot a PISSCUTTER Bull,or the FAKEST Excuse of all,I Needed the Meat!
The List goes on & on!
But Why would anybody want to destroy what took so long to achieve?
This States Management is F'D Up & Relates to nothing more than looking for more ways to bring more revenue in & Piss on the Quality of Our Game Herds!
There You go efa!
If You're Handing My Posts in,Make sure & Deliver this one to them as Well!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>How do you know if the
>number of spikes killed would
>be higher if the DWR
>maide it mandatory full accounting
>of all spike hunters. Maybe
>the 25 percent the DWR
>call for there survey was
>the lucky ones and make
>it a higher percent successful.
>
>Yes slayer some people do enjoy
>the spike hunt that does
>not make them wrong.
>Take away spike hunting, decrease the
>general deer tags let's see
>how many hunters are left
>in Utah. Utah is not
>exactly a hot bed for
>hunting low in waterfowl numbers
>especially during drought years, pheasant
>population is all but gone
>we do not have white
>tails hiding in every grove
>of trees. So tell me
>how do you promote hunting
>in Utah.
Well notdon!
LE Units were Not Set-Up to become a SPIKE/COW FEST SLAUGHTER!
They were originally set up for Sportsmen that were willing to wait for a Tag & when that time come around they'd have a chance at Hunting some better Quality Animals!
Don't know how Old you are?
But it took some time to build Quality in the LE Units!
It didn't happen over night!
Utah can Damn sure Produce Trophy Bucks & Bulls when managed Properly!
But!
As Soon as the LE Units started Producing Quality Elk,Damn Near every Joe Blow in the State wanted a piece of the Pie!
Well that's Fine!
But take your Turn!
Opportunists started screaming!
The Pro's (DWR!) supposedly managing Our Game Herds Give in & Start lowering Age Class objectives so they can sell more Tags that Equals Nothing more than GREED!
Then the STUPIDEST Thing you could ever do is start Selling all these Spike/Cow Tags,AKA Our Future Big Bulls!
You'd Have to be a Blind Bastard not to see this!
And No notdon that Ain't directed at you!
In about 2003-2004 Our LE Elk units were Showing some Nice Progress & by about 2006 and for several more Years We achieved what the Units were set up for,A chance for Sportsmen that Played the Game,some waiting many years to finally draw,but they knew when they finally drew their tag, they had a Perty Damn Good Hunt ahead of them with a Nice Chance at a Trophy Bull,Still not a Guarantee,it's Hunting,or for some Jack-ASSES claiming Shooting Fish in a Barrel because they didn't play the Game & it comes with an Attitude,Tough Titty!
Why on GAWDS Green Earth You'd Destroy Quality I Haven't a Clue!
Wait a Minute!
Would it be GREED?
Let's Start Selling Every Calve,Spike,Cow,Big Bull,Little Bull,Medium Bull equaling nothing More than QUICK CASH!
I've Screamed for Years to get 2 or 3 Units set up for the PISSCUTTER/Spike Killers!
Manage them as You F'N Please!
Kill every F'N Elk within them 2 or 3 Units if you Please!
But after it's Done/Destroyed don't come BAWLING wanting in on Trophy LE Elk units just to appease your Blood Thirsty Goal of saying:I Filled My Tag,I Shot a Spike,I Shot a Cow,I Shot a PISSCUTTER Bull,or the FAKEST Excuse of all,I Needed the Meat!
The List goes on & on!
But Why would anybody want to destroy what took so long to achieve?
This States Management is F'D Up & Relates to nothing more than looking for more ways to bring more revenue in & Piss on the Quality of Our Game Herds!
There You go efa!
If You're Handing My Posts in,Make sure & Deliver this one to them as Well!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
notdonhunting Exactly the only hard numbers that we have is the mandatory harvest on Big bull and the spike numbers very easily could be lower and they could easily be higher I kept putting that in my post to prove a point so therefor in reality I can't sit here and say IT'S IS A SPIKE PROBLEM and neither can anyone else say that IT'S NOT A SPIKE PROBLEM we have very little data on spike hunting..
I'm all for spike hunting it will help the herds but OVER HARVESTING SPIKE will crush are mature bull herds and that is a FACT
I think a mandatory harvest survey will help manage are mature bull herds better
Vanilla I'm sorry for labeling you as spike hunter I was in the wrong there.
I'm all for spike hunting it will help the herds but OVER HARVESTING SPIKE will crush are mature bull herds and that is a FACT
I think a mandatory harvest survey will help manage are mature bull herds better
Vanilla I'm sorry for labeling you as spike hunter I was in the wrong there.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
Bessy, word of caution: I'd be careful about cticizing the ?opportunity? hunters. If they (we) ever got wise enough to rise up and unite, ?trophy hunting? as you hope to see it would be gone forever in this state.
Sometimes leaving well enough alone is wise. Yeah, the 400 inch bulls may not be as plentiful as they were when they peaked (and were not sustainable anyway), but the LE hunting is still good. Start attacking opportunity and you may awaken a sleeping giant.
As my good friend Charlie Daniels said, there's a whole lot more of us common folk (opportunity hunters) then there ever will be of you.
Sometimes leaving well enough alone is wise. Yeah, the 400 inch bulls may not be as plentiful as they were when they peaked (and were not sustainable anyway), but the LE hunting is still good. Start attacking opportunity and you may awaken a sleeping giant.
As my good friend Charlie Daniels said, there's a whole lot more of us common folk (opportunity hunters) then there ever will be of you.
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,135
Slayer
In post 228 you state
"from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1434 spikes and this number is low because they only do 25% survey and its not mandatory it will be higher and that's a fact"
That is why stated you do not know if it will be higher there is no way of knowing that we do not know if it was highly successful hunters for the unit or highly unsuccessful hunters for the unit.
Slayer
I think we are close to being on the same page but just looking at the page a little dufferent.
Bessie
You still do not answer why can the Manti, Wasatch, and Fish lake be so successful at hunting spikes and LE Elk and not the rest of the LE Elk units. Yes they could make just a couple of spike or what ever you want to shoot units and yes they would get killed out. Is that sound managment.It sounds like to me there is a small group of loud mouths that just want what they want and be dam@# with the rest.
Now before you take offense to that I do not mean you bess I do believe you want the best for the Books they are a special place for you and others but you know who I am talking about guys on these threads that just get on and say it is there way and if you do not agree they attack personally. They do not stay in the fight and give ideas or try to come to some understanding.
And I wish vanilla did have that plane and the seat or hanger under the plane for bess I would have paid for the gas to see bess ride there.
In post 228 you state
"from 2009 to 2017 we harvested 1434 spikes and this number is low because they only do 25% survey and its not mandatory it will be higher and that's a fact"
That is why stated you do not know if it will be higher there is no way of knowing that we do not know if it was highly successful hunters for the unit or highly unsuccessful hunters for the unit.
Slayer
I think we are close to being on the same page but just looking at the page a little dufferent.
Bessie
You still do not answer why can the Manti, Wasatch, and Fish lake be so successful at hunting spikes and LE Elk and not the rest of the LE Elk units. Yes they could make just a couple of spike or what ever you want to shoot units and yes they would get killed out. Is that sound managment.It sounds like to me there is a small group of loud mouths that just want what they want and be dam@# with the rest.
Now before you take offense to that I do not mean you bess I do believe you want the best for the Books they are a special place for you and others but you know who I am talking about guys on these threads that just get on and say it is there way and if you do not agree they attack personally. They do not stay in the fight and give ideas or try to come to some understanding.
And I wish vanilla did have that plane and the seat or hanger under the plane for bess I would have paid for the gas to see bess ride there.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bessy, word of caution: I'd be
>careful about cticizing the ?opportunity?
>hunters. If they (we) ever
>got wise enough to rise
>up and unite, ?trophy hunting?
>as you hope to see
>it would be gone forever
>in this state.
>
>Sometimes leaving well enough alone is
>wise. Yeah, the 400 inch
>bulls may not be as
>plentiful as they were when
>they peaked (and were not
>sustainable anyway), but the LE
>hunting is still good. Start
>attacking opportunity and you may
>awaken a sleeping giant.
>
>As my good friend Charlie Daniels
>said, there's a whole lot
>more of us common folk
>(opportunity hunters) then there ever
>will be of you.
Hey Niller!
Pay Special Attention to Where I Said to Start your Own SPIKE SLAUGHTERS/Opportunity Hunts!
You're Claiming You Can RISE!
So GIT-R-DONE!
Your Lying about your Plane You Don't Have Ain't Very F'N Funny around Here!
It's Too Bad You Lied!
Was gonna have you show Me what Ain't there!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>careful about cticizing the ?opportunity?
>hunters. If they (we) ever
>got wise enough to rise
>up and unite, ?trophy hunting?
>as you hope to see
>it would be gone forever
>in this state.
>
>Sometimes leaving well enough alone is
>wise. Yeah, the 400 inch
>bulls may not be as
>plentiful as they were when
>they peaked (and were not
>sustainable anyway), but the LE
>hunting is still good. Start
>attacking opportunity and you may
>awaken a sleeping giant.
>
>As my good friend Charlie Daniels
>said, there's a whole lot
>more of us common folk
>(opportunity hunters) then there ever
>will be of you.
Hey Niller!
Pay Special Attention to Where I Said to Start your Own SPIKE SLAUGHTERS/Opportunity Hunts!
You're Claiming You Can RISE!
So GIT-R-DONE!
Your Lying about your Plane You Don't Have Ain't Very F'N Funny around Here!
It's Too Bad You Lied!
Was gonna have you show Me what Ain't there!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
Vanilla I know but that was wrong of me to say
yeah that's why I have been setting the record straight on my end with what experience on the books I had in 2016 I was so excited when I drew my tag and I had high expectation when I set my first camera we had thousand of pictures I only had few that where shooters 330 340 bulls they could of been bigger I'm not very good at judging and they went off the radar until the last 3 days of my hunt and one showed up but I couldn't close the deal I could of killed many bulls they just wasn't big enough it was pretty sad being a LE unit and the area that we covered with cameras and that's all we had it almost felt like I was hunting general season minus the people I had fun and that's all that matters but it has definitely gotten worse since I was out there
yeah that's why I have been setting the record straight on my end with what experience on the books I had in 2016 I was so excited when I drew my tag and I had high expectation when I set my first camera we had thousand of pictures I only had few that where shooters 330 340 bulls they could of been bigger I'm not very good at judging and they went off the radar until the last 3 days of my hunt and one showed up but I couldn't close the deal I could of killed many bulls they just wasn't big enough it was pretty sad being a LE unit and the area that we covered with cameras and that's all we had it almost felt like I was hunting general season minus the people I had fun and that's all that matters but it has definitely gotten worse since I was out there
Mtngoat690
Active Member
- Messages
- 116
>Bessy, word of caution: I'd be
>careful about cticizing the ?opportunity?
>hunters. If they (we) ever
>got wise enough to rise
>up and unite, ?trophy hunting?
>as you hope to see
>it would be gone forever
>in this state.
>
>Sometimes leaving well enough alone is
>wise. Yeah, the 400 inch
>bulls may not be as
>plentiful as they were when
>they peaked (and were not
>sustainable anyway), but the LE
>hunting is still good. Start
>attacking opportunity and you may
>awaken a sleeping giant.
>
>As my good friend Charlie Daniels
>said, there's a whole lot
>more of us common folk
>(opportunity hunters) then there ever
>will be of you.
Vanilla is 100% accurate on this post. More and more hunters (especially the young ones) are discovering the fact that they will never hunt a premium deer or elk unit I their lifetime. They are more than happy with an "opportunity" to kill a spike or cow every year. I'm also pretty sure the majority of hunters shooting spikes don't think twice about how they just may have robbed you or Mossback, or Wade Lemmon clients of their 400 inch bull. Do you want to know why? Because the majority of hunters don't care about inches and that is a fact.
Don't get me wrong, l love big bucks and bulls as much as anyone, but there is a lot of land locked up in our state for "limited entry hunting" I guarantee if you "stop the spike and cow slaughter" on these units and lock out the average hunters, and deny them the opportunity to hunt unless they want to wait the required 20 years for a tag....you will be in for a fight and you will lose. If you are that concerned about a particular unit, I suggest you immediately stop spending your time arguing on monster muleys (sorry Brian no harm intended) and start putting that time effort into working on a solution. Get involved, volunteer to help with the counts and conservation projects. Get out to the RAC meetings, contact the biologists.
I know....I know.... they won't listen right? I have a hard time believing if as many people that have concerns that are posting doom and gloom here took the time to attend the meetings an contacted the DNR biologists, their concerns would be completely ignored. Now keep in mind, I'm not saying you are going to get the "spike and cow slaughter" on the prized LE units stopped by storming the RAC meetings demanding change (because the majority of hunters dont want it changed), but it's probably more effective than the name calling Keyboard biologist lessons we're seeing here.
Sorry for the interruption, carry on.......
>careful about cticizing the ?opportunity?
>hunters. If they (we) ever
>got wise enough to rise
>up and unite, ?trophy hunting?
>as you hope to see
>it would be gone forever
>in this state.
>
>Sometimes leaving well enough alone is
>wise. Yeah, the 400 inch
>bulls may not be as
>plentiful as they were when
>they peaked (and were not
>sustainable anyway), but the LE
>hunting is still good. Start
>attacking opportunity and you may
>awaken a sleeping giant.
>
>As my good friend Charlie Daniels
>said, there's a whole lot
>more of us common folk
>(opportunity hunters) then there ever
>will be of you.
Vanilla is 100% accurate on this post. More and more hunters (especially the young ones) are discovering the fact that they will never hunt a premium deer or elk unit I their lifetime. They are more than happy with an "opportunity" to kill a spike or cow every year. I'm also pretty sure the majority of hunters shooting spikes don't think twice about how they just may have robbed you or Mossback, or Wade Lemmon clients of their 400 inch bull. Do you want to know why? Because the majority of hunters don't care about inches and that is a fact.
Don't get me wrong, l love big bucks and bulls as much as anyone, but there is a lot of land locked up in our state for "limited entry hunting" I guarantee if you "stop the spike and cow slaughter" on these units and lock out the average hunters, and deny them the opportunity to hunt unless they want to wait the required 20 years for a tag....you will be in for a fight and you will lose. If you are that concerned about a particular unit, I suggest you immediately stop spending your time arguing on monster muleys (sorry Brian no harm intended) and start putting that time effort into working on a solution. Get involved, volunteer to help with the counts and conservation projects. Get out to the RAC meetings, contact the biologists.
I know....I know.... they won't listen right? I have a hard time believing if as many people that have concerns that are posting doom and gloom here took the time to attend the meetings an contacted the DNR biologists, their concerns would be completely ignored. Now keep in mind, I'm not saying you are going to get the "spike and cow slaughter" on the prized LE units stopped by storming the RAC meetings demanding change (because the majority of hunters dont want it changed), but it's probably more effective than the name calling Keyboard biologist lessons we're seeing here.
Sorry for the interruption, carry on.......
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
Bessy, that's the thing: I don't want to do that! I think there is room for everyone, if everyone is willing to give up a little in the process. The opportunity crowd that doesn't care about 400 inch bulls already has given up the vast majority of the state as an opportunity to kill a branch antlered bull. All I'm saying is don't try and take that away, or maybe they'll do the same to you.
I'm fine not having things exactly as I want them. But I'm not fine doing exactly like you want though. I'm willing to give some, but not all. What about you?
I'm fine not having things exactly as I want them. But I'm not fine doing exactly like you want though. I'm willing to give some, but not all. What about you?
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
https://www.ksl.com/article/46453400/wildlife-officials-seek-help-with-bull-moose-elk-poaching-cases
Maybe you boys out in the Basin ought to quit poaching them if you want them to be around for hunters!
JUST KIDDDING BESSY! I KNOW IT WAS NOT YOU! JUDAS, QUIT POACHIN? EM THOUGH!
Maybe you boys out in the Basin ought to quit poaching them if you want them to be around for hunters!
JUST KIDDDING BESSY! I KNOW IT WAS NOT YOU! JUDAS, QUIT POACHIN? EM THOUGH!
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
notdonhunting yeah that was wrong of me to say I agree and that's right we don't know until we get real numbers.
I will answer your question on Bessie the books is totally different than those 2 units I have been on both
there is a lot more wide open country and a lot more roads on the books there are roads following down the top of almost every ridge looking down into open canyons and it makes it sniper country or long range for any big game
Manti don't even come close to what the books have they have way more elk a lot more cover and they don't kill that many spikes on that unit considering on how many elk are on that unit It's totally different animal
2017
11300 elk population
299 spikes harvested they say so I'm pointing out how hard it is to kill a spike there will be a ton of bulls leftover
Wasatch is the same way there is not as many roads and the place is covered with trees it does have about as many elk on there as there is on the books and those spike numbers are lower than the books
2017
7200 elk population
216 spikes harvested
so I look at this and I see it is a lot harder to kill on these units because of accessibility the books is way easy to kill any big game animal on and I think there are a lot more bulls on these other units that why they are issuing a lot more tags because of the less kill on spikes that is just my way of thinking
I will answer your question on Bessie the books is totally different than those 2 units I have been on both
there is a lot more wide open country and a lot more roads on the books there are roads following down the top of almost every ridge looking down into open canyons and it makes it sniper country or long range for any big game
Manti don't even come close to what the books have they have way more elk a lot more cover and they don't kill that many spikes on that unit considering on how many elk are on that unit It's totally different animal
2017
11300 elk population
299 spikes harvested they say so I'm pointing out how hard it is to kill a spike there will be a ton of bulls leftover
Wasatch is the same way there is not as many roads and the place is covered with trees it does have about as many elk on there as there is on the books and those spike numbers are lower than the books
2017
7200 elk population
216 spikes harvested
so I look at this and I see it is a lot harder to kill on these units because of accessibility the books is way easy to kill any big game animal on and I think there are a lot more bulls on these other units that why they are issuing a lot more tags because of the less kill on spikes that is just my way of thinking
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
- Messages
- 862
Mtngoat690 a lot of people did go to the RAC out here in the basin and it passed in the RAC to shut the books down to spike hunting but it didn't pass in SLC the local people know what's going on out here in are own back yard and by all means I don't want it shut down I would like to see it manage better on spikes.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bessy, that's the thing: I don't
>want to do that! I
>think there is room for
>everyone, if everyone is willing
>to give up a little
>in the process. The opportunity
>crowd that doesn't care about
>400 inch bulls already has
>given up the vast majority
>of the state as an
>opportunity to kill a branch
>antlered bull. All I'm saying
>is don't try and take
>that away, or maybe they'll
>do the same to you.
>
>
>I'm fine not having things exactly
>as I want them. But
>I'm not fine doing exactly
>like you want though. I'm
>willing to give some, but
>not all. What about you?
>
GOOD GAWD Niller!
You Don't Think the LE Units have Gave more than they Should have already?
Do This for me:
Get the Number of all LE Elk Permits offered for the 1st 10 years including all age classes!
Then get me numbers of all Permits issued in the LE Elk Units the Last 10 years!
I Believe the Hunters Packing 20+ Points have Gave More than enough!
And You're Still wanting More!
You Sure you don't work for the DWR?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>want to do that! I
>think there is room for
>everyone, if everyone is willing
>to give up a little
>in the process. The opportunity
>crowd that doesn't care about
>400 inch bulls already has
>given up the vast majority
>of the state as an
>opportunity to kill a branch
>antlered bull. All I'm saying
>is don't try and take
>that away, or maybe they'll
>do the same to you.
>
>
>I'm fine not having things exactly
>as I want them. But
>I'm not fine doing exactly
>like you want though. I'm
>willing to give some, but
>not all. What about you?
>
GOOD GAWD Niller!
You Don't Think the LE Units have Gave more than they Should have already?
Do This for me:
Get the Number of all LE Elk Permits offered for the 1st 10 years including all age classes!
Then get me numbers of all Permits issued in the LE Elk Units the Last 10 years!
I Believe the Hunters Packing 20+ Points have Gave More than enough!
And You're Still wanting More!
You Sure you don't work for the DWR?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
WTF You mean: Bessy, that's the thing: I don't
want to do that!
You'd Best Grow a Pair & Get your Own PISSCUTTIN Units going!
Pound Em!
If it Moves Shoot it!
If You See Color Shoot it!
If you see a Calf Shoot it!
Make sure & Shoot every Spike you can!
You See a Calf Sucking on it's Mother shoot both of them!
You See a Spike Breeding it's Mother shoot both of them!
Just Shoot em all!
But when it's done it's done!
Don't come BAWLING & WHINING after You've Screwed Yourselves!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
want to do that!
You'd Best Grow a Pair & Get your Own PISSCUTTIN Units going!
Pound Em!
If it Moves Shoot it!
If You See Color Shoot it!
If you see a Calf Shoot it!
Make sure & Shoot every Spike you can!
You See a Calf Sucking on it's Mother shoot both of them!
You See a Spike Breeding it's Mother shoot both of them!
Just Shoot em all!
But when it's done it's done!
Don't come BAWLING & WHINING after You've Screwed Yourselves!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bobkitty, I'm one of those with
>20+ elk points. You really
>have such a huge misconception
>of who you are dealing
>with.
Well Niller!
Since everybody has Told Me How Wrong I Am!
Can I Suggest where You can Pull an LE Tag with your Once in a Life Time Points?
Should Be Easy for you to Pull a Trophy Bull out of the Unit since everybody tells Me how Wrong I am!
I'll admit,I Must be a Blind Bastard to have so many People Argue with Me that's never stepped foot in to the Unit!
It's Sad!
Because just a few years back it was Perty Damn Good Unit for Elk!
Even Though they SLAUGHTERED the Spikes You Guy's keep telling Me there are Many Left!
You might even Luck out & Find a PISSCUTTER Raghorn with them kinda points!
Tell Me Niller?
If You had a Choice with your Points!
Would you rather be Hunting LE Elk under the Management of 2004 thru 2010?
Or today with current Management?
Come on Niller!
You can Pull the Book Cliffs Tag with them Kinda Points!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>20+ elk points. You really
>have such a huge misconception
>of who you are dealing
>with.
Well Niller!
Since everybody has Told Me How Wrong I Am!
Can I Suggest where You can Pull an LE Tag with your Once in a Life Time Points?
Should Be Easy for you to Pull a Trophy Bull out of the Unit since everybody tells Me how Wrong I am!
I'll admit,I Must be a Blind Bastard to have so many People Argue with Me that's never stepped foot in to the Unit!
It's Sad!
Because just a few years back it was Perty Damn Good Unit for Elk!
Even Though they SLAUGHTERED the Spikes You Guy's keep telling Me there are Many Left!
You might even Luck out & Find a PISSCUTTER Raghorn with them kinda points!
Tell Me Niller?
If You had a Choice with your Points!
Would you rather be Hunting LE Elk under the Management of 2004 thru 2010?
Or today with current Management?
Come on Niller!
You can Pull the Book Cliffs Tag with them Kinda Points!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Tikka
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,870
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>
>
>Hard to dispute that big bulls
>in the Bookcliffs isn't a
>possibility, 2006 wasn't all that
>long ago......
That Ron Shoronski Bull is Probably as Good a Bull all around that I've ever seen!
How bout this Jimmy Ryan Bull!
I Just Ain't seen any even Close to this Size in Many Years in the Book Cliffs!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Hard to dispute that big bulls
>in the Bookcliffs isn't a
>possibility, 2006 wasn't all that
>long ago......
That Ron Shoronski Bull is Probably as Good a Bull all around that I've ever seen!
How bout this Jimmy Ryan Bull!
I Just Ain't seen any even Close to this Size in Many Years in the Book Cliffs!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
How Bout it Niller!
You wanna Burn your Points!
You Can't say they were Not once there!
According to several of You Who have never even been to the Unit,You're Claiming the Big Bulls are still There!
Good Luck on that!
Them Bulls should have some Off-Spring Running around!
Oops!
They Got Shot & Killed when they were Spikes!
What A Shame!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
You wanna Burn your Points!
You Can't say they were Not once there!
According to several of You Who have never even been to the Unit,You're Claiming the Big Bulls are still There!
Good Luck on that!
Them Bulls should have some Off-Spring Running around!
Oops!
They Got Shot & Killed when they were Spikes!
What A Shame!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Thanks Tikka!
>This one wasn?t all that long
>ago...
>
>
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2018/35196c2ca7698814a4439b97c254061e958d3.jpeg
>
>
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2018/8501b6f949b220104e65b801ce6984be934f.jpeg
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>This one wasn?t all that long
>ago...
>
>
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2018/35196c2ca7698814a4439b97c254061e958d3.jpeg
>
>
>http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos_2018/8501b6f949b220104e65b801ce6984be934f.jpeg
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
The Above?
Or this?
Damn that's a Hard Decision to make!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Or this?
Damn that's a Hard Decision to make!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
slamdunk
Moderator
- Messages
- 10,392
This was me (left) in the Books last year. This was the best bull we saw in 5 solid days of spreading out and covering as much country as we could. We had this bull ratholed in an area well off the beaten paths and in an area we hadn't seen any other hunters or scouters.
The tooth data from the DNR report aged this bull at 8.5 years old.
He's a good bull, but it goes to show that just because a bull that is in his prime year's, doesn't mean he will be a book head.
The age harvest objective for the Bookcliffs is 6.5, we beat that by 2 years and still fell short of what we had hoped for in the end.
After what we were seeing in our scouting trips, we felt confident and good about harvesting this Expo tag Bookcliffs bull.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
I Hate to say it PUNK!
But You Guys done Well considering the Past Several Years of Management out there!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
But You Guys done Well considering the Past Several Years of Management out there!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Ain?t nothing wrong with that bull.
>Congrats on a stud!
Hey Niller?
You ready to Burn Em?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>Congrats on a stud!
Hey Niller?
You ready to Burn Em?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Mtngoat690
Active Member
- Messages
- 116
> The Above?
>
>Or this?
>
>Damn that's a Hard Decision to
>make!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
The one on the bottom is the one I would rather eat!
Does that count?
>
>Or this?
>
>Damn that's a Hard Decision to
>make!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
The one on the bottom is the one I would rather eat!
Does that count?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>> The Above?
>>
>>Or this?
>>
>>Damn that's a Hard Decision to
>>make!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>
>
>
>The one on the bottom is
>the one I would rather
>eat!
>Does that count?
It Counts alot!
Buy A General Tag or start the 2-3 Units I Suggested to Niller & Go Shoot one!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>Or this?
>>
>>Damn that's a Hard Decision to
>>make!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>
>
>
>The one on the bottom is
>the one I would rather
>eat!
>Does that count?
It Counts alot!
Buy A General Tag or start the 2-3 Units I Suggested to Niller & Go Shoot one!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,135
Bess
I do not think most on this thread are debating weather the elk heard is hurting right now at least I am not debating that I have continued to sta I believe you and others that state that. What i am saying and i think others ate trying to say is there might be other issues maybe more alarming than spike hunting.
I think it would be best seat down with a biologist for that unit talk to them see if you can come up with some answers. I do believe most biologists are good responsible guys that truly care about the animals same might not always be true for administration in the DWR.
Who knows they might have the same opinion as you and you might find a ally.
I do not think most on this thread are debating weather the elk heard is hurting right now at least I am not debating that I have continued to sta I believe you and others that state that. What i am saying and i think others ate trying to say is there might be other issues maybe more alarming than spike hunting.
I think it would be best seat down with a biologist for that unit talk to them see if you can come up with some answers. I do believe most biologists are good responsible guys that truly care about the animals same might not always be true for administration in the DWR.
Who knows they might have the same opinion as you and you might find a ally.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
So Niller & notdon!
Do You Really Think knocking the Quality down in LE Units Helps the Point Creep?
JUDAS!
And notdon!
I Won't Argue most of the Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode by other BS Plans by the Wildlife Board what Good are the Biologists doing?
And if You'll read above notdon you'll see where I Posted several reasons,not just one as to why the Unit is in PISS POOR Shape!
There's No Doubt in My Mind it would take several Years to Bring the Book Cliffs back to what it was!
The Changes would be harsh enough You'd have Grown Men around here BAWLING like little Babies!
But!
Mark my Word on it!
It'll get even Worse before anything is done about it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Do You Really Think knocking the Quality down in LE Units Helps the Point Creep?
JUDAS!
And notdon!
I Won't Argue most of the Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode by other BS Plans by the Wildlife Board what Good are the Biologists doing?
And if You'll read above notdon you'll see where I Posted several reasons,not just one as to why the Unit is in PISS POOR Shape!
There's No Doubt in My Mind it would take several Years to Bring the Book Cliffs back to what it was!
The Changes would be harsh enough You'd have Grown Men around here BAWLING like little Babies!
But!
Mark my Word on it!
It'll get even Worse before anything is done about it!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
notdonhunting
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,135
Bess your probably right the new young Biologist are from modern University's taught by rock lickers/tree huggers.
The older Biologists if any are around are pretty good.
The older Biologists if any are around are pretty good.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
> So Niller & notdon!
>
>Do You Really Think knocking the
>Quality down in LE Units
>Helps the Point Creep?
>
>JUDAS!
>
>And notdon!
>
>I Won't Argue most of the
>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>
>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>by other BS Plans by
>the Wildlife Board what Good
>are the Biologists doing?
>
>And if You'll read above notdon
>you'll see where I Posted
>several reasons,not just one as
>to why the Unit is
>in PISS POOR Shape!
>
>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>it would take several Years
>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>back to what it was!
>
>
>The Changes would be harsh enough
>You'd have Grown Men around
>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>
>
>But!
>
>Mark my Word on it!
>
>It'll get even Worse before anything
>is done about it!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
Like it was when? 1980? 1990? 2000? Give us a year to go by and let's see what it was like then so we can duplicate it.
>
>Do You Really Think knocking the
>Quality down in LE Units
>Helps the Point Creep?
>
>JUDAS!
>
>And notdon!
>
>I Won't Argue most of the
>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>
>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>by other BS Plans by
>the Wildlife Board what Good
>are the Biologists doing?
>
>And if You'll read above notdon
>you'll see where I Posted
>several reasons,not just one as
>to why the Unit is
>in PISS POOR Shape!
>
>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>it would take several Years
>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>back to what it was!
>
>
>The Changes would be harsh enough
>You'd have Grown Men around
>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>
>
>But!
>
>Mark my Word on it!
>
>It'll get even Worse before anything
>is done about it!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
Like it was when? 1980? 1990? 2000? Give us a year to go by and let's see what it was like then so we can duplicate it.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bess your probably right the
>new young Biologist are from
>modern University's taught by rock
>lickers/tree huggers.
>The older Biologists if any are
>around are pretty good.
Hey notdon!
I'm Not even Knocking any of Our Biologists!
But When their Work & Input Means Nothing I've got a Problem with it!
I Do Have a Problem with any of them rather it be a CO/Biologist/Etc claiming How Great The Deer Hunt was in this area this Fall!
I Had a Guy/DWR Employee Ask me this year:
You Coulda Shot a Buck this year couldn't you?
Yup,coulda shot some Bucks!
Then He said you have No Reason to Complain!
I Said When You Hunt as Hard as Me & Jr Hunted & Don't see any more Mature Bucks than We did Somethings Wrong!
No I'm not saying every Buck needs to be Mature!
What I'm Saying is when all the Seasons are finally over with we need a few with some age class left to do some of the Breeding & maybe something to Hunt with some age class for next years Hunt!
Is that too much to Ask for?
Evident-ally it is!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>new young Biologist are from
>modern University's taught by rock
>lickers/tree huggers.
>The older Biologists if any are
>around are pretty good.
Hey notdon!
I'm Not even Knocking any of Our Biologists!
But When their Work & Input Means Nothing I've got a Problem with it!
I Do Have a Problem with any of them rather it be a CO/Biologist/Etc claiming How Great The Deer Hunt was in this area this Fall!
I Had a Guy/DWR Employee Ask me this year:
You Coulda Shot a Buck this year couldn't you?
Yup,coulda shot some Bucks!
Then He said you have No Reason to Complain!
I Said When You Hunt as Hard as Me & Jr Hunted & Don't see any more Mature Bucks than We did Somethings Wrong!
No I'm not saying every Buck needs to be Mature!
What I'm Saying is when all the Seasons are finally over with we need a few with some age class left to do some of the Breeding & maybe something to Hunt with some age class for next years Hunt!
Is that too much to Ask for?
Evident-ally it is!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>> So Niller & notdon!
>>
>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>Quality down in LE Units
>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>
>>JUDAS!
>>
>>And notdon!
>>
>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>
>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>by other BS Plans by
>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>are the Biologists doing?
>>
>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>you'll see where I Posted
>>several reasons,not just one as
>>to why the Unit is
>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>
>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>it would take several Years
>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>back to what it was!
>>
>>
>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>
>>
>>But!
>>
>>Mark my Word on it!
>>
>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>is done about it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>2000? Give us a year
>to go by and let's
>see what it was like
>then so we can duplicate
>it.
SFW has a few mature game animals for sale , yours and mine ?
>>
>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>Quality down in LE Units
>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>
>>JUDAS!
>>
>>And notdon!
>>
>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>
>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>by other BS Plans by
>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>are the Biologists doing?
>>
>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>you'll see where I Posted
>>several reasons,not just one as
>>to why the Unit is
>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>
>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>it would take several Years
>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>back to what it was!
>>
>>
>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>
>>
>>But!
>>
>>Mark my Word on it!
>>
>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>is done about it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>2000? Give us a year
>to go by and let's
>see what it was like
>then so we can duplicate
>it.
SFW has a few mature game animals for sale , yours and mine ?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>> So Niller & notdon!
>>
>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>Quality down in LE Units
>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>
>>JUDAS!
>>
>>And notdon!
>>
>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>
>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>by other BS Plans by
>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>are the Biologists doing?
>>
>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>you'll see where I Posted
>>several reasons,not just one as
>>to why the Unit is
>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>
>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>it would take several Years
>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>back to what it was!
>>
>>
>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>
>>
>>But!
>>
>>Mark my Word on it!
>>
>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>is done about it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>2000? Give us a year
>to go by and let's
>see what it was like
>then so we can duplicate
>it.
Well efa!
As Bad as I Thought it was in 1980 I'd like to go back!
The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer Hunting Tapered off the Face of the Earth in TARDville beginning in 1972!
Kinda funny how a Neighboring State kept their Quality Up way longer than Utah did!
Don't know How old you are efa?
Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
I Haven't forgot!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>Quality down in LE Units
>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>
>>JUDAS!
>>
>>And notdon!
>>
>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>
>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>by other BS Plans by
>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>are the Biologists doing?
>>
>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>you'll see where I Posted
>>several reasons,not just one as
>>to why the Unit is
>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>
>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>it would take several Years
>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>back to what it was!
>>
>>
>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>
>>
>>But!
>>
>>Mark my Word on it!
>>
>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>is done about it!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>2000? Give us a year
>to go by and let's
>see what it was like
>then so we can duplicate
>it.
Well efa!
As Bad as I Thought it was in 1980 I'd like to go back!
The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer Hunting Tapered off the Face of the Earth in TARDville beginning in 1972!
Kinda funny how a Neighboring State kept their Quality Up way longer than Utah did!
Don't know How old you are efa?
Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
I Haven't forgot!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
>>> So Niller & notdon!
>>>
>>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>>Quality down in LE Units
>>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>>
>>>JUDAS!
>>>
>>>And notdon!
>>>
>>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>>
>>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>>by other BS Plans by
>>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>>are the Biologists doing?
>>>
>>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>>you'll see where I Posted
>>>several reasons,not just one as
>>>to why the Unit is
>>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>>
>>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>>it would take several Years
>>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>>back to what it was!
>>>
>>>
>>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>>
>>>
>>>But!
>>>
>>>Mark my Word on it!
>>>
>>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>>is done about it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know so many people in
>>>so many places
>>>They make allot of money but
>>>they got sad faces
>>>
>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>>2000? Give us a year
>>to go by and let's
>>see what it was like
>>then so we can duplicate
>>it.
>
>Well efa!
>
>As Bad as I Thought it
>was in 1980 I'd like
>to go back!
>
>The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer
>Hunting Tapered off the Face
>of the Earth in TARDville
>beginning in 1972!
>
>Kinda funny how a Neighboring State
>kept their Quality Up way
>longer than Utah did!
>
>Don't know How old you are
>efa?
>
>Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
>
>
>I Haven't forgot!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
For the record, I'm 77. However, I had moved to Oxnard California in 1967 and lived there until 1989, so I had no idea what the deer herds were like in Utah in 1972 since I couldn't afford to buy an out-of-state license. Besides, I was content to archery hunt the small coastal mule in Malibu, since it was close and rifle hunting wasn't allowed.
You wrote about what the deer herds were like in 1980, but what were the elk herds like?
>>>
>>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>>Quality down in LE Units
>>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>>
>>>JUDAS!
>>>
>>>And notdon!
>>>
>>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>>
>>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>>by other BS Plans by
>>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>>are the Biologists doing?
>>>
>>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>>you'll see where I Posted
>>>several reasons,not just one as
>>>to why the Unit is
>>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>>
>>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>>it would take several Years
>>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>>back to what it was!
>>>
>>>
>>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>>
>>>
>>>But!
>>>
>>>Mark my Word on it!
>>>
>>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>>is done about it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I know so many people in
>>>so many places
>>>They make allot of money but
>>>they got sad faces
>>>
>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>
>>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>>2000? Give us a year
>>to go by and let's
>>see what it was like
>>then so we can duplicate
>>it.
>
>Well efa!
>
>As Bad as I Thought it
>was in 1980 I'd like
>to go back!
>
>The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer
>Hunting Tapered off the Face
>of the Earth in TARDville
>beginning in 1972!
>
>Kinda funny how a Neighboring State
>kept their Quality Up way
>longer than Utah did!
>
>Don't know How old you are
>efa?
>
>Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
>
>
>I Haven't forgot!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
For the record, I'm 77. However, I had moved to Oxnard California in 1967 and lived there until 1989, so I had no idea what the deer herds were like in Utah in 1972 since I couldn't afford to buy an out-of-state license. Besides, I was content to archery hunt the small coastal mule in Malibu, since it was close and rifle hunting wasn't allowed.
You wrote about what the deer herds were like in 1980, but what were the elk herds like?
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>>>> So Niller & notdon!
>>>>
>>>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>>>Quality down in LE Units
>>>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>>>
>>>>JUDAS!
>>>>
>>>>And notdon!
>>>>
>>>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>>>
>>>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>>>by other BS Plans by
>>>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>>>are the Biologists doing?
>>>>
>>>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>>>you'll see where I Posted
>>>>several reasons,not just one as
>>>>to why the Unit is
>>>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>>>
>>>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>>>it would take several Years
>>>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>>>back to what it was!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>But!
>>>>
>>>>Mark my Word on it!
>>>>
>>>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>>>is done about it!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I know so many people in
>>>>so many places
>>>>They make allot of money but
>>>>they got sad faces
>>>>
>>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>>
>>>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>>>2000? Give us a year
>>>to go by and let's
>>>see what it was like
>>>then so we can duplicate
>>>it.
>>
>>Well efa!
>>
>>As Bad as I Thought it
>>was in 1980 I'd like
>>to go back!
>>
>>The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer
>>Hunting Tapered off the Face
>>of the Earth in TARDville
>>beginning in 1972!
>>
>>Kinda funny how a Neighboring State
>>kept their Quality Up way
>>longer than Utah did!
>>
>>Don't know How old you are
>>efa?
>>
>>Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
>>
>>
>>I Haven't forgot!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>For the record, I'm 77. However,
>I had moved to Oxnard
>California in 1967 and lived
>there until 1989, so I
>had no idea what the
>deer herds were like in
>Utah in 1972 since I
>couldn't afford to buy an
>out-of-state license. Besides, I was
>content to archery hunt the
>small coastal mule in Malibu,
>since it was close and
>rifle hunting wasn't allowed.
>
>You wrote about what the deer
>herds were like in 1980,
>but what were the elk
>herds like?
In 1980 I Thought The Deer Herd SUCKED!
Just Sayin!
Now It SUCKS Worse!
Here Where I Live & Hunt the Elk Started Populating more & More by 1980!
I Don't know number wise efa?
The Herd Continued to Grow for many years!
Then the Cow Slaughters went on for many,many years!
Numbers have been up & down Some!
I Wouldn't even dare guess how many Cows Were Slaughtered off the South Slope over the years!
The South Slope managed properly would produce as Big of Bulls as any other LE Unit in the state!
Problem is they never reach an age to reach their potential!
There have been a very Few Exceptions with a few that lived long enough to get Big!
If it wasn't for Tribal Ground there probably wouldn't be a F'N Animal of any kind left on the South Slope!
Perty Sad that some of the LE Units today aren't any better than General Units!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>>>
>>>>Do You Really Think knocking the
>>>>Quality down in LE Units
>>>>Helps the Point Creep?
>>>>
>>>>JUDAS!
>>>>
>>>>And notdon!
>>>>
>>>>I Won't Argue most of the
>>>>Biologists Ain't Great Guys!
>>>>
>>>>But When Their Word/Input/Studies are Over-rode
>>>>by other BS Plans by
>>>>the Wildlife Board what Good
>>>>are the Biologists doing?
>>>>
>>>>And if You'll read above notdon
>>>>you'll see where I Posted
>>>>several reasons,not just one as
>>>>to why the Unit is
>>>>in PISS POOR Shape!
>>>>
>>>>There's No Doubt in My Mind
>>>>it would take several Years
>>>>to Bring the Book Cliffs
>>>>back to what it was!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Changes would be harsh enough
>>>>You'd have Grown Men around
>>>>here BAWLING like little Babies!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>But!
>>>>
>>>>Mark my Word on it!
>>>>
>>>>It'll get even Worse before anything
>>>>is done about it!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I know so many people in
>>>>so many places
>>>>They make allot of money but
>>>>they got sad faces
>>>>
>>>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>>
>>>Like it was when? 1980? 1990?
>>>2000? Give us a year
>>>to go by and let's
>>>see what it was like
>>>then so we can duplicate
>>>it.
>>
>>Well efa!
>>
>>As Bad as I Thought it
>>was in 1980 I'd like
>>to go back!
>>
>>The Quality/Banner Day of Mule Deer
>>Hunting Tapered off the Face
>>of the Earth in TARDville
>>beginning in 1972!
>>
>>Kinda funny how a Neighboring State
>>kept their Quality Up way
>>longer than Utah did!
>>
>>Don't know How old you are
>>efa?
>>
>>Or maybe your Memory has Faded?
>>
>>
>>I Haven't forgot!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>For the record, I'm 77. However,
>I had moved to Oxnard
>California in 1967 and lived
>there until 1989, so I
>had no idea what the
>deer herds were like in
>Utah in 1972 since I
>couldn't afford to buy an
>out-of-state license. Besides, I was
>content to archery hunt the
>small coastal mule in Malibu,
>since it was close and
>rifle hunting wasn't allowed.
>
>You wrote about what the deer
>herds were like in 1980,
>but what were the elk
>herds like?
In 1980 I Thought The Deer Herd SUCKED!
Just Sayin!
Now It SUCKS Worse!
Here Where I Live & Hunt the Elk Started Populating more & More by 1980!
I Don't know number wise efa?
The Herd Continued to Grow for many years!
Then the Cow Slaughters went on for many,many years!
Numbers have been up & down Some!
I Wouldn't even dare guess how many Cows Were Slaughtered off the South Slope over the years!
The South Slope managed properly would produce as Big of Bulls as any other LE Unit in the state!
Problem is they never reach an age to reach their potential!
There have been a very Few Exceptions with a few that lived long enough to get Big!
If it wasn't for Tribal Ground there probably wouldn't be a F'N Animal of any kind left on the South Slope!
Perty Sad that some of the LE Units today aren't any better than General Units!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Bess I will tell you what I've seen in the Books The last 40 years. I first went to the Books in 1977 bow hunting and it was awesome there were deer everywhere and it was a great week if we seen a elk.The south side was 4 point or better.Then in 1984 You could purchase a archery tag and a rifle tag and shoot 2 deer with your bow.The next year they changed it to either sex. And this is when things started to go down hill,Then some time around 1990 they changed to a 3 point or better for a couple of years.Next they opened it back up to anything and totally killed every thing. So they closed for 5 years and reopened it to a draw.The hole time this was going on the Elk were doing great until they started their cow hunts. This part I still can't figure out there Elk quota has been 7500 head for 20 years and they started killing cow when there numbers was around 3500 head.Then somewhere in their the tribe got 10% of all tags they paved the road started to kill F-N spikes.Now most of the Basin Boys that used to hunt the south slope go to the Books now because the road is paved, there are roads everywhere and they can drive around and shoot a spike right off one of these road and drive right to there Spike or cow.Bess here is the funniest part the Basin boys that still hunt the south slope killed bigger bulls than they did in the Books this year.I seen what opportunity did to the deer in the 1980.So enjoy your opportunity while it last and kill every thing out there.Then you can start on the horses if you need the meat. I with ya Bess on this line we need the meat.My azz
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Thanks for Chiming in arns!
Here's another Guy that Knows & See's what's going on first Hand!
I Remember when they shot the Book Cliffs out!
I've never heard a reason for it?
But if you wanna see Pitiful,that was it!
So F'N Bad they had to Close it for 5 years!
Maybe efa can SPLAIN what this was all about?
Same Sshhitt on the Bumble Bee Unit & Henries & Elk Ridge & other Units!
>Bess I will tell you what
>I've seen in the Books
>The last 40 years. I
>first went to the Books
>in 1977 bow hunting and
>it was awesome there were
>deer everywhere and it was
>a great week if we
>seen a elk.The south side
>was 4 point or better.Then
>in 1984 You could purchase
>a archery tag and a
>rifle tag and shoot 2
>deer with your bow.The next
>year they changed it to
>either sex. And this is
> when things started to
>go down hill,Then some time
>around 1990 they changed to
>a 3 point or better
>for a couple of years.Next
>they opened it back up
>to anything and totally killed
>every thing. So they closed
>for 5 years and reopened
>it to a draw.The hole
>time this was going on
>the Elk were doing great
>until they started their cow
>hunts. This part I still
>can't figure out there Elk
>quota has been 7500 head
>for 20 years and they
>started killing cow when there
>numbers was around 3500 head.Then
>somewhere in their the tribe
>got 10% of all tags
>they paved the road started
>to kill F-N spikes.Now most
>of the Basin Boys that
>used to hunt the south
>slope go to the Books
>now because the road is
>paved, there are roads everywhere
>and they can drive around
>and shoot a spike right
>off one of these road
>and drive right to there
>Spike or cow.Bess here is
>the funniest part the Basin
>boys that still hunt the
>south slope killed bigger bulls
>than they did in the
>Books this year.I seen what
>opportunity did to the deer
>in the 1980.So enjoy your
>opportunity while it last and
>kill every thing out there.Then
>you can start on the
>horses if you need the
>meat. I with ya Bess
>on this line we need
>the meat.My azz
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Here's another Guy that Knows & See's what's going on first Hand!
I Remember when they shot the Book Cliffs out!
I've never heard a reason for it?
But if you wanna see Pitiful,that was it!
So F'N Bad they had to Close it for 5 years!
Maybe efa can SPLAIN what this was all about?
Same Sshhitt on the Bumble Bee Unit & Henries & Elk Ridge & other Units!
>Bess I will tell you what
>I've seen in the Books
>The last 40 years. I
>first went to the Books
>in 1977 bow hunting and
>it was awesome there were
>deer everywhere and it was
>a great week if we
>seen a elk.The south side
>was 4 point or better.Then
>in 1984 You could purchase
>a archery tag and a
>rifle tag and shoot 2
>deer with your bow.The next
>year they changed it to
>either sex. And this is
> when things started to
>go down hill,Then some time
>around 1990 they changed to
>a 3 point or better
>for a couple of years.Next
>they opened it back up
>to anything and totally killed
>every thing. So they closed
>for 5 years and reopened
>it to a draw.The hole
>time this was going on
>the Elk were doing great
>until they started their cow
>hunts. This part I still
>can't figure out there Elk
>quota has been 7500 head
>for 20 years and they
>started killing cow when there
>numbers was around 3500 head.Then
>somewhere in their the tribe
>got 10% of all tags
>they paved the road started
>to kill F-N spikes.Now most
>of the Basin Boys that
>used to hunt the south
>slope go to the Books
>now because the road is
>paved, there are roads everywhere
>and they can drive around
>and shoot a spike right
>off one of these road
>and drive right to there
>Spike or cow.Bess here is
>the funniest part the Basin
>boys that still hunt the
>south slope killed bigger bulls
>than they did in the
>Books this year.I seen what
>opportunity did to the deer
>in the 1980.So enjoy your
>opportunity while it last and
>kill every thing out there.Then
>you can start on the
>horses if you need the
>meat. I with ya Bess
>on this line we need
>the meat.My azz
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>
I Believe it was one of the Deer Units that was Closed/AKA Shot Out!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
I Believe it was one of the Deer Units that was Closed/AKA Shot Out!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
Besscat, now you're mixing issues. I have no idea how to solve the point creep issue.
Actually, yes I do. But it will never happen since all state wildlife policy is run by SFW and ranching. Both groups capitalize big time from less numbers of elk and therefore, less hunting opportunities.
Less hunting opportunities means increased point creep.
Actually, yes I do. But it will never happen since all state wildlife policy is run by SFW and ranching. Both groups capitalize big time from less numbers of elk and therefore, less hunting opportunities.
Less hunting opportunities means increased point creep.
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
>>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>>
>
>I Believe it was one of
>the Deer Units that was
>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I believe your wrong on that comment but it doesn't surprise me, coming from a guy that likes to throw out a lot of crap based on just hearsay!
>>
>
>I Believe it was one of
>the Deer Units that was
>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
I believe your wrong on that comment but it doesn't surprise me, coming from a guy that likes to throw out a lot of crap based on just hearsay!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>>>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>>>
>>
>>I Believe it was one of
>>the Deer Units that was
>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I believe your wrong on that
>comment but it doesn't surprise
>me, coming from a guy
>that likes to throw out
>a lot of crap based
>on just hearsay!
Wrong about what?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>>
>>
>>I Believe it was one of
>>the Deer Units that was
>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I believe your wrong on that
>comment but it doesn't surprise
>me, coming from a guy
>that likes to throw out
>a lot of crap based
>on just hearsay!
Wrong about what?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>>>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>>>
>>
>>I Believe it was one of
>>the Deer Units that was
>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I believe your wrong on that
>comment but it doesn't surprise
>me, coming from a guy
>that likes to throw out
>a lot of crap based
>on just hearsay!
If You Don't Think there has been any Area's Closed for 4-5 Years it Proves:
You're a ROOKIE/Young!
You Ain't been around TARDvilles Management/in the Field that Long!
Or You Don't Know WTF You Are Talking about!
There Were some Areas Closed!
So Before You Start Babbling Your BS Think it out a little!
I Posted the Truth on The BookCliffs!
You Admit You Don't Know SQUAT about the Book Cliffs!
But You're Mad & BUTT Hurt Because I Posted it!
Well!
Sometimes the F'N Truth Hurts!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>>>
>>
>>I Believe it was one of
>>the Deer Units that was
>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I believe your wrong on that
>comment but it doesn't surprise
>me, coming from a guy
>that likes to throw out
>a lot of crap based
>on just hearsay!
If You Don't Think there has been any Area's Closed for 4-5 Years it Proves:
You're a ROOKIE/Young!
You Ain't been around TARDvilles Management/in the Field that Long!
Or You Don't Know WTF You Are Talking about!
There Were some Areas Closed!
So Before You Start Babbling Your BS Think it out a little!
I Posted the Truth on The BookCliffs!
You Admit You Don't Know SQUAT about the Book Cliffs!
But You're Mad & BUTT Hurt Because I Posted it!
Well!
Sometimes the F'N Truth Hurts!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
ridgetops
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,743
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-18 AT 11:10AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-18 AT 11:09?AM (MST)
>>>>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I Believe it was one of
>>>the Deer Units that was
>>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I believe your wrong on that
>>comment but it doesn't surprise
>>me, coming from a guy
>>that likes to throw out
>>a lot of crap based
>>on just hearsay!
>
>If You Don't Think there has
>been any Area's Closed for
>4-5 Years it Proves:
>
>You're a ROOKIE/Young!
>
>You Ain't been around TARDvilles Management/in
>the Field that Long!
>
>Or You Don't Know WTF You
>Are Talking about!
>
>There Were some Areas Closed!
>
>So Before You Start Babbling Your
>BS Think it out a
>little!
>
>I Posted the Truth on The
>BookCliffs!
>
>You Admit You Don't Know SQUAT
>about the Book Cliffs!
>
>But You're Mad & BUTT Hurt
>Because I Posted it!
>
>Well!
>
>Sometimes the F'N Truth Hurts!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
Bess,
How about looking at yourself in the mirror!
Your right, I don't know much about the bookcliffs.
Except, that it has been within the management plan.
If you don't like the plan, then try and get it changed , like others have already said.
This whole rant you started in the beginning of this thread, stating basically the whole state is F'd up!
Which I strongly disagree with you.
One thing for sure, you plainly don't know much about the Bumblebee Mnt.!
When exactly was it closed and shot out?
>>>>Bess, what happened on the bumblebee?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I Believe it was one of
>>>the Deer Units that was
>>>Closed/AKA Shot Out!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I believe your wrong on that
>>comment but it doesn't surprise
>>me, coming from a guy
>>that likes to throw out
>>a lot of crap based
>>on just hearsay!
>
>If You Don't Think there has
>been any Area's Closed for
>4-5 Years it Proves:
>
>You're a ROOKIE/Young!
>
>You Ain't been around TARDvilles Management/in
>the Field that Long!
>
>Or You Don't Know WTF You
>Are Talking about!
>
>There Were some Areas Closed!
>
>So Before You Start Babbling Your
>BS Think it out a
>little!
>
>I Posted the Truth on The
>BookCliffs!
>
>You Admit You Don't Know SQUAT
>about the Book Cliffs!
>
>But You're Mad & BUTT Hurt
>Because I Posted it!
>
>Well!
>
>Sometimes the F'N Truth Hurts!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!
see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
Bess,
How about looking at yourself in the mirror!
Your right, I don't know much about the bookcliffs.
Except, that it has been within the management plan.
If you don't like the plan, then try and get it changed , like others have already said.
This whole rant you started in the beginning of this thread, stating basically the whole state is F'd up!
Which I strongly disagree with you.
One thing for sure, you plainly don't know much about the Bumblebee Mnt.!
When exactly was it closed and shot out?
Just getting home from the books. We saw about 30 head of elk, 5 spikes possibly 6 but wasn't positive enough I would've shot him on a spike tag. We didn't see any other bulls. Keep in mind we were just driving roads and exploring a little. Left the house about 9, got back to town about dark so it wasn't prime.
Overall the deer herd looks way down and sad really. The elk seems about par with what I've usually seen in the areas we were. I'll believe you on the big bulls, not the only place I've heard the quality has gone way down.
Conclusions im coming to is the number of cow tags needs lowered. Big bull tags age class needs raised back up, so yes cut tags until herd is at objective. Leave the spike hunt alone, it's really helping in the long run I believe. All of that said I think mandatory reporting needs to be put in place to see exactly what we're killing to have complete info to manage.
Overall the deer herd looks way down and sad really. The elk seems about par with what I've usually seen in the areas we were. I'll believe you on the big bulls, not the only place I've heard the quality has gone way down.
Conclusions im coming to is the number of cow tags needs lowered. Big bull tags age class needs raised back up, so yes cut tags until herd is at objective. Leave the spike hunt alone, it's really helping in the long run I believe. All of that said I think mandatory reporting needs to be put in place to see exactly what we're killing to have complete info to manage.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Just getting home from the books.
>We saw about 30 head
>of elk, 5 spikes possibly
>6 but wasn't positive enough
>I would've shot him on
>a spike tag. We didn't
>see any other bulls. Keep
>in mind we were just
>driving roads and exploring a
>little. Left the house about
>9, got back to town
>about dark so it wasn't
>prime.
>
>Overall the deer herd looks way
>down and sad really. The
>elk seems about par with
>what I've usually seen in
>the areas we were. I'll
>believe you on the big
>bulls, not the only place
>I've heard the quality has
>gone way down.
>
>Conclusions im coming to is the
>number of cow tags needs
>lowered. Big bull tags age
>class needs raised back up,
>so yes cut tags until
>herd is at objective. Leave
>the spike hunt alone, it's
>really helping in the long
>run I believe. All of
>that said I think mandatory
>reporting needs to be put
>in place to see exactly
>what we're killing to have
>complete info to manage.
>
>
>
You Didn't Call Me justr?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>We saw about 30 head
>of elk, 5 spikes possibly
>6 but wasn't positive enough
>I would've shot him on
>a spike tag. We didn't
>see any other bulls. Keep
>in mind we were just
>driving roads and exploring a
>little. Left the house about
>9, got back to town
>about dark so it wasn't
>prime.
>
>Overall the deer herd looks way
>down and sad really. The
>elk seems about par with
>what I've usually seen in
>the areas we were. I'll
>believe you on the big
>bulls, not the only place
>I've heard the quality has
>gone way down.
>
>Conclusions im coming to is the
>number of cow tags needs
>lowered. Big bull tags age
>class needs raised back up,
>so yes cut tags until
>herd is at objective. Leave
>the spike hunt alone, it's
>really helping in the long
>run I believe. All of
>that said I think mandatory
>reporting needs to be put
>in place to see exactly
>what we're killing to have
>complete info to manage.
>
>
You Didn't Call Me justr?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
How Many 30" Bucks did you see justr?
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
I'm Gettin Blind justr!
Shoulda Swerved & Put me off the Road! (Everybody else does!)
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
Shoulda Swerved & Put me off the Road!
(Everybody else does!)I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,109
LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-18 AT 12:07PM (MST)[p]Several of you rant about the opportunist claiming they need the meat.
So, how about you telling us what it is YOU NEED that compels you to spend so many hours away from your home/family locating, scouting and hunting for big antlered deer and elk. And spending so much money on rigs, equipment, local and out-of-state licenses & tags, gas, motels, guiding services & taxidermy work. And spending so much time and effort trying to change hunting rules and regulations at the expense of opportunity in order to make it easier for you to kill that buck/bull. The way I see it, your NEEDS are a whole lot more personally expensive and harder on the family budget and schedule in terms of time, money, energy & relationships than my needs.
So, what is it? Do tell us, please!
So, how about you telling us what it is YOU NEED that compels you to spend so many hours away from your home/family locating, scouting and hunting for big antlered deer and elk. And spending so much money on rigs, equipment, local and out-of-state licenses & tags, gas, motels, guiding services & taxidermy work. And spending so much time and effort trying to change hunting rules and regulations at the expense of opportunity in order to make it easier for you to kill that buck/bull. The way I see it, your NEEDS are a whole lot more personally expensive and harder on the family budget and schedule in terms of time, money, energy & relationships than my needs.
So, what is it? Do tell us, please!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
Hey efa!
I Didn't see anybody Saying Deer Were More Important than Family!
But for Some!
The Whole Family Likes Hunting,Fishing & The Outdoors!
Even Though I Like Deer Meat!
I Can Survive without it!
Sportsmen that Hunt for Big Buck don't necessarily Shoot Bucks every year!
Yup!
You're Right!
It Ain't Cheap!
But When the Whole Family Enjoys it,it's Not Hard on the Family!
My Days at Church are on the Mountain!
Everybody Blows Money on a Hobby/Sport of Some Kind,You ever Think of that?
I Hope You Can Understand it efa!
I Didn't Bully You in this Post!
I Didn't Use Profanity in this Post!
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-18
>AT 12:07?PM (MST)
>
>Several of you rant about the
>opportunist claiming they need the
>meat.
>
>So, how about you telling us
>what it is YOU NEED
>that compels you to spend
>so many hours away from
>your home/family locating, scouting and
>hunting for big antlered deer
>and elk. And spending so
>much money on rigs, equipment,
>local and out-of-state licenses &
>tags, gas, motels, guiding services
>& taxidermy work. And spending
>so much time and effort
>trying to change hunting rules
>and regulations at the expense
>of opportunity in order to
>make it easier for you
>to kill that buck/bull. The
>way I see it, your
>NEEDS are a whole lot
>more personally expensive and harder
>on the family budget and
>schedule in terms of time,
>money, energy & relationships than
>my needs.
>
>So, what is it? Do tell
>us, please!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I Didn't see anybody Saying Deer Were More Important than Family!
But for Some!
The Whole Family Likes Hunting,Fishing & The Outdoors!
Even Though I Like Deer Meat!
I Can Survive without it!
Sportsmen that Hunt for Big Buck don't necessarily Shoot Bucks every year!
Yup!
You're Right!
It Ain't Cheap!
But When the Whole Family Enjoys it,it's Not Hard on the Family!
My Days at Church are on the Mountain!
Everybody Blows Money on a Hobby/Sport of Some Kind,You ever Think of that?
I Hope You Can Understand it efa!
I Didn't Bully You in this Post!
I Didn't Use Profanity in this Post!
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-18
>AT 12:07?PM (MST)
>
>Several of you rant about the
>opportunist claiming they need the
>meat.
>
>So, how about you telling us
>what it is YOU NEED
>that compels you to spend
>so many hours away from
>your home/family locating, scouting and
>hunting for big antlered deer
>and elk. And spending so
>much money on rigs, equipment,
>local and out-of-state licenses &
>tags, gas, motels, guiding services
>& taxidermy work. And spending
>so much time and effort
>trying to change hunting rules
>and regulations at the expense
>of opportunity in order to
>make it easier for you
>to kill that buck/bull. The
>way I see it, your
>NEEDS are a whole lot
>more personally expensive and harder
>on the family budget and
>schedule in terms of time,
>money, energy & relationships than
>my needs.
>
>So, what is it? Do tell
>us, please!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
I'm all for the guy that kills a cow elk or a spike elk maybe even a deer every year and eats the hole thing.The problem I have is the guy that says he needs the meat kills one every year and eat a couple of steaks maybe a roast and a couple of packs of burger then kills one the next year and throws the one from last year away.Or the guy that makes the whole thing into jerky.I work with a guy that shoots a deer and a elk just about every year and gives them away because he's family won't eat wild meat.These so called hunters, are just killers not hunters.There?s your opportunity for ya. I would love to see a lot more management deer hunts for the youth and elderly.Than we need the meat.
Vanilla
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,594
Isn?t making it into jerky and eating it still eating it?
Are we going to now start dictating who real hunters are not only by the size of animal they shoot, but by the form of meat or how it's prepared?
I for one wouldn't jerk any of my elk, let alone the whole thing. But goodness, if a guy or gal loves jerky, what is wrong with that?
(For the record, most of my deer every time goes to jerky, but I don't shoot one every year.)
Are we going to now start dictating who real hunters are not only by the size of animal they shoot, but by the form of meat or how it's prepared?
I for one wouldn't jerk any of my elk, let alone the whole thing. But goodness, if a guy or gal loves jerky, what is wrong with that?
(For the record, most of my deer every time goes to jerky, but I don't shoot one every year.)
The only ones that bug me are the guys that say they're sick of shooting 2 points, but keep shooting 2 points...
An elk is an elk and they're tasty. Can't really speak for what is going through someone's head as they're pulling the trigger. It's for them and their own reasons, just don't complain after the fact because not everyone gets the opportunity.
The reason a 330 bull or bigger is so wanted is because they're hard to come by and never guaranteed, anywhere, with any tag.
They could do a few different things to help with the points creep. Non residents apply for 1 species instead of all. The gift tag program just encouraged more people to apply that don't really have any business applying. I could keep going but that's enough for now.
An elk is an elk and they're tasty. Can't really speak for what is going through someone's head as they're pulling the trigger. It's for them and their own reasons, just don't complain after the fact because not everyone gets the opportunity.
The reason a 330 bull or bigger is so wanted is because they're hard to come by and never guaranteed, anywhere, with any tag.
They could do a few different things to help with the points creep. Non residents apply for 1 species instead of all. The gift tag program just encouraged more people to apply that don't really have any business applying. I could keep going but that's enough for now.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-18 AT 05:49AM (MST)[p]>The only ones that bug me
>are the guys that say
>they're sick of shooting 2
>points, but keep shooting 2
>points...
>
>An elk is an elk and
>they're tasty. Can't really speak
>for what is going through
>someone's head as they're pulling
>the trigger. It's for them
>and their own reasons, just
>don't complain after the fact
>because not everyone gets the
>opportunity.
>
>The reason a 330 bull or
>bigger is so wanted is
>because they're hard to come
>by and never guaranteed, anywhere,
>with any tag.
>
>They could do a few different
>things to help with the
>points creep. Non residents apply
>for 1 species instead of
>all. The gift tag program
>just encouraged more people to
>apply that don't really have
>any business applying. I could
>keep going but that's enough
>for now.
>
>
>
So Do Tell us justr!
When they/DWR started letting NON-RESIDENTS Apply for all OIL Tags,what do you Think they were Thinking about?
EDIT:Then I Got to Thinking justr!
You Might Like that Now!
(((Work it to your Advantage!)))
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>are the guys that say
>they're sick of shooting 2
>points, but keep shooting 2
>points...
>
>An elk is an elk and
>they're tasty. Can't really speak
>for what is going through
>someone's head as they're pulling
>the trigger. It's for them
>and their own reasons, just
>don't complain after the fact
>because not everyone gets the
>opportunity.
>
>The reason a 330 bull or
>bigger is so wanted is
>because they're hard to come
>by and never guaranteed, anywhere,
>with any tag.
>
>They could do a few different
>things to help with the
>points creep. Non residents apply
>for 1 species instead of
>all. The gift tag program
>just encouraged more people to
>apply that don't really have
>any business applying. I could
>keep going but that's enough
>for now.
>
>
So Do Tell us justr!
When they/DWR started letting NON-RESIDENTS Apply for all OIL Tags,what do you Think they were Thinking about?
EDIT:Then I Got to Thinking justr!
You Might Like that Now!
(((Work it to your Advantage!)))
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
>Oh I'll definitely take advantage of
>it while I'm a non
>resident. Then if I move
>back I'll be set on
>points!
PLICK!!!
>
>
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
>it while I'm a non
>resident. Then if I move
>back I'll be set on
>points!
PLICK!!!
>
>
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,049
justr!
The Only Smart TARD!
He'll Move Back in a few Years with more OIL Points than I'll ever have!
Now I Know why You left Town!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
The Only Smart TARD!
He'll Move Back in a few Years with more OIL Points than I'll ever have!
Now I Know why You left Town!
I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces
It Ain't Easy being Me!
340Wby
Active Member
- Messages
- 176
I used to believe in the process like you do. However after attending multiple RACs thinking my voice would be heard I finally came to the realization (like a non resident finally learning they wont ever draw a strip tag in AZ) that the special interests YES I mean bowhunters and the other organizations have a lot of pull. You will also see the board members motion items not in the packet, pas them unanimously and move on. The RAC and boards do sound like a good idea but like all other things where there is good, the potential for bad is also there. By and large they do a good job though, they would do a great job if they pissed of the organizations a little bit too though. (if everyone is a little agitated then they are doing something right, if they keep pitting hunters against hunters it will break)
Dinkshooter
Active Member
- Messages
- 229
Quick Question..................
How many spike only hunts are allowed in the premier units of Az, WY, CO, Nm and NV?
Wait Whut?
You cant even shoot a spike in Co OTC units. Quite possible the dumbest wild animal on the planet, a spike elk.
How many spike only hunts are allowed in the premier units of Az, WY, CO, Nm and NV?
Wait Whut?
You cant even shoot a spike in Co OTC units. Quite possible the dumbest wild animal on the planet, a spike elk.
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