Where?s all the deer

[Muleman1]

I hunted hard for 8 days saw 5 dinky and I mean dinky bucks the whole hunt was in 4 miles on mules seriously where have they all gone it's bad and we have the DWR saying it's the best year in decades unbelievable I think we need more mountain lion permits personally!

 

[shootem]

Worst year I've seen in a long time on the unit I've spent 20 years on. Saw 1 mature buck in 9 days of hunting. Logged over 50 miles on the boots.

 

[Cheater]

Worst year for me in a long time as well.

 

[elkassassin]

There's more too it than Lions!

The Worst I've seen it!

But I say it every Year!

Our Deer are not Big Bodied animals anymore!

If they make age 3-1/2 they're considered a TARDville Trophy!

They are Not a Tough Breed anymore!

They are Pressured Non-Stop Damn near all year!

We Lost alot of Deer Last Winter!

The PUSSSY Deer of today can't handle what used to be an average Winter!

But according to the DWR,The Best in 25 Years,I Call BS!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Horsecorn]

There ain?t no calling bullsnit it is bullsnit. They make me sick. How stupid do they think we are. I know some people believe them and wow I can't understand they can't open there eyes and see the lies.

 

[fullthrottle]

So irritating. They could at least admit that the deer herd is a joke instead of selling a bunch of BS to the public. The folks managing Utah?s big game herds suck.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 11:26PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 11:25?PM (MST)

We hunted 5 days straight on a unit in southern Utah and saw about 140 does and one buck. We went down south because it was so bad up north. Honestly I think it's better in my old unit up North. They need to cut tags big time. Buck to doe ratios and the population count cannot be correct. Maybe if you count all the deer on all the private and all the city boundaries you might get somewhat close to their claims. But buck to doe ratios and overall deer numbers are pathetic on public land.

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

to all of the keyboard Biologist's that call this website home I would be very interested to hear your revised management plan.

and then with your plans please tell everyone how you would get around proposing the plan and getting it approved, dealing with situations of limited employee's, funds, resources.

Because that is all I am hearing from people on here oh that state sucks at this they don't do this I want this and that and I want it now. How many of you have been to a RAC meeting and stood up and discussed with the biologist before placing blame?

I will bet next to none of you have and I can say that with confidence because I got to many of them if not listen to them and very few times have anyone have manned up instead of talking behind their lack of knowledge and information while earning their Double triple Master pHD degree from Google State Community college.

Quit your itching and start trying to help. Don't blame those that are working with what they can when they can and how they can because there isn't endless funds as some people agree nor employee's considering a good portion of employment comes from seasonal hires for the summer.

And to add to trying to please you me and the next guy they have to do this while fighting the weather, fires, and the anti's.

And I am sure not everyone who cries on here only does that but SOME but few people on here DO go to RAC meetings and TALK to biologist's because I do know some people here DO and on top of all that those who hunt are becoming a minority and this nonstop bickering back and forth it is this persons fault and they don't do this WE as a whole need to WORK together to fix any issues. IF you have an issue with how the state does things go ASK a BIOLOGIST why they do things that way instead of this way and then ask how can YOU HELP.

like I said not everyone on here just sits on their computer and complain but it doesn't help you me or the wildlife. I saw plenty of deer this deer hunt all three hunts. I have no complaints I saw numerous buck and I saw a lot of good mature bucks I also saw a ton of feed still high on the mountain in the cache unit which by far isn't the "BEST" unit but it has deer and monster bucks get killed every year. Distance from the road doesn't equate to increase in deer density 4 miles back doesn't mean hundreds or thousands of deer haha but I saw plenty of deer.

 

[264mag]

If you got $200,000 you can kill a good buck ?

 

[Cooper]

Thunder is complaining about people complaining, ?

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Cooper absolutely. I come here to read about people's hunts and all I seem to hear is non stop crying but NO ONE seems to want to try and help. They just want the state of utah to have big bucks around every corner a tag for them and all the friends or family but no one else and when all the deer tags go to other people the constantly cry of how there are too many hunters blah blah blah.

You dont like it? Go hunt elsewhere

You want to see more deer? Ask a biologist how you as a hunter/ outdoorsman can help

 

[Muleman1]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-19 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p]I'd gladly give up my tag for a few years for some better management to ensure my kids can have a hunt where they'd at least see something to go after instead of the management thinking of the all mighty $$$$$ stop the spike elk hunts on the LE units stop handing out so many tags Antlerless especially better Predator control just a few ideas

 

[Cooper]

I brought up all of the winterkill I saw in rich county this spring and how the locals said they had a bad winter and all I got was arguments from people who believed what they saw on tv or read on the internet, now people aren't seeing deer, anyways people only believe what they want to

 

[scopenstalk]

I never know what to think, I hunt units that don't even sell out the tags in the draw and I see a decent amount of bucks every year and usually a couple mature ones. I suppose I have never really known what good deer hunting is though since my deer hunting career started in about 2005. I skipped 2006 and 2007 due to being out of the country and then resumed from 2008 until present.....

 

[Horsecorn]

Thunder don't give me that computer bull #####. I'll guarantee you I spend way more time than you on the mountain. I can see with my own eyes what isn't there. I have been to the rack meetings and asked what they were going to do about the wild horses taking over and they laughed. Well go to the bookcliffs and see what they have done. I've asked why they give out spike tags doe tags and so many cow tags. They say that it doesn't hurt a thing.. (what the hell). They get on tv and say our herds are better than they have been in 25 years.( what a joke). It's damn hard to try and help the biologists when they Think just because we don't have a degree we don't know anything and aren't worth listening too. Years spent in the hills means way more than getting a degree in my book. I've given up on talking to them. They have one plan and to hell with everyone else?s ides or suggestion s. Just kill everything that is left and be done with it.

 

[wstrntines]

I'm just not seeing a ton of deer this year. And year after year I find big deer. It seems tough this year. I have yet to see a deer that gets me excited. Antlerless tags should not be offered on public land for mule deer in Utah. You want more big deer you gotta produce more deer. There isn't 370k deer. I'll take worse draw odds for more deer. Take a good look people, this is what the more opportunity approach has given you.

"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."

 

[slamdunk]

>
> I'm
>just not seeing a ton
>of deer this year. And
>year after year I find
>big deer. It seems tough
>this year. I have yet
>to see a deer that
>gets me excited. Antlerless tags
>should not be offered on
>public land for mule deer
>in Utah. You want more
>big deer you gotta produce
>more deer. There isn't
>370k deer. I'll take
>worse draw odds for more
>deer. Take a good look
>people, this is what the
>more opportunity approach has given
>you.
>

You are exactly right.

Would anyone care to guess why there is a second muzzleloader season going on right now for both deer and elk (cows included) when we already had one in September?
Seriously, another hunt on general season deer immediately after the rifle hunt????
And then there is the late season LE elk hunt just days away.
Go figure....

Our big game herds just keep getting pounded clear to death by "opportunity".

Thunder
Don't even spew your comments about going to RAC meeting's and how the biologists are there to listen.
They are there only to patronize YOU by listening to individual voices simply because that is how the bylaws were written to allow public input.

The DNR listens to money....BIG money.
Whether it's the big money conservation groups talking that generate literally millions of dollars into assistance to allocated government funds, and OR money generated by selling tags through "more opportunity".

If we want change or even transparency, we MUST unite, period!

 

[elkassassin]

You Guys Have Heard Me Say for years We are Hunting them to Death!

Do You Believe Me now?










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Horsecorn to answer your assumption correctly I spend a lot of time throughout a good portion of the state, primarily the northern part of the state. And I will agree the deer herd is hurting and there is plenty more that CAN be done, but it isn't that simple and granting everyone's wish. It takes time, money, resources, education, and convincing those that make the decisions on what can and will be done.

There is also a lot more than just seeing deer and saying there are deer. There are statistical equations that help give a number based on game counts, which seeing deer is what makes the counts realistic and precise but one thing that comes into play as being stated in this very thread is sightability and deer don't typically stand in the open 24/7 waiting to be counted. These concepts and analyses are taught to students in Wildlife Degree programs such as the one I earned my Wildlife Science Degree and pursuing my Masters of Natural Resources.

Trust me I hear and see what everyone (biologist, technician, volunteer, hunter, hiker and so on). I don't have any more say than anyone on this sight but as a group one voice becomes many, and many voices are heard far better.

For if we don't stand together now our kids and their kids will be dealing with an issue far worse.

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-19 AT 10:58PM (MST)[p]Slamdunk- That 2nd muzzleloader hunt has only been on a few units. Next year it will probably be on every unit- which is supposedly recommended in the new Mule Deer Plan.

Which begs the question- Is it the "opportunists" ruining the deer herd? Most people I know are against having a limited entry hunt on general season units. But the people pushing for the late ML hunt seem to be the guys wanting to restrict general season permits. Kill 'em now or kill 'em later.

I'm all for reducing general season permits if necessary. The herd overall should come first- but if the doe population is having fawns at a natural rate then buck hunting isn't the biological issue. Where are all the fawns going? It isn't buck hunters killing the 4 month old fawns and for the most part it isn't doe hunters in Utah......

 

[elkassassin]

There are So Many Problems/Issues with the Deer Herd!

There will Never be Enough Seriously Needed Changes Made to Fix it!

With More & More Hunts/Pressure We've seen the Rut Pushed to Later & Later Dates Making Fawns nothing more than Coyote Bait going in to their First Winter!

Everybody wants to Blame 'One Reason Why'!

There are Many Reasons Why!

And You'll never see change enough in this State to Fix it!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Packout you nailed it on the head! reducing bucks won't necessarily hurt the population like people think. having a few doe hunts won't either. But one thing that could help is fixing and maintaining the deer fences along roadways, but this too have a negative impact on the deer herds migration to wintering ground as well as back to the summer ground. The under road wildlife tunnels help but a lot of deer and elk do not like them and it also creates a ambush opportunity for predators.

 

[slamdunk]

Packout

Not sure about you or anyone else's sightings in the field this year, but the circle I run in have all noticed that although overall deer numbers appear to be lower, we did in fact notice a lot of twin fawns on the Wasatch West unit (mostly Ray's Valley and Sheep Creek areas).

The American Fork Canyon and Provo Peaks areas SHOULD be managed apart from WW because of the drastically diminished winter range.
We are quickly losing critical habitat in the Heber/Midway Valley and also in the Alpine, Highland, Pleasant Grove and all down through Provo to Springville.
The Uban Deer transplants that we (MDF) were doing with the DNR has now turned into an archery hunt to kill versus save and relocate these animals.

Why are we continually adding hunts and "opportunity" when we all know that most of our GS units are in trouble?
We start hunting in August and dont let off pressure until November?

If we realize depredation is taking a toll on our fawn crops, why are we adding additional "opportunity"?

We are on a very destructive path with both natural killers and human killers colliding.

What gives, and when?

 

[Gator]

15 bucks for every 100 does, NOT EVEN CLOSE
saw over 80 does in one field for over a week and 5 bucks 3 -2pts 1 spike and one 170 class watch him get shot the 3rd day.
same bucks every day.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[cannonball]

Monroe was terrible this year also, but writing it here does do much. Write and communicate this to the DWR and the Big Game Board.

 

[cannonball]

that should read does not do much unless you pass it on to those who make the deer hunting rules.

 

[cantkillathing]

I am sure the renewal of the mule deer plan will be the exact same as the last 20+ years, with the addition of making a late season muzzy hunt...we will stay status quo...my suggestion is like others is we go to 4 point or better on all units....yes bucks don't produce your fawns but we have been trying same thing for years and it's not working...keep tag numbers the same, 4 point on one antler, and give it a go..DWR will say deer will get shot and left, but how many 100-500...that is still a lot less than the 20,000 2 points each year...if someone makes a mistake they call it in and pay a fine and don't loose hunting, if they don't call it in and get busted they get bigger fine and revoke hunting for 3 years..try something different stop trying the buck to doe ratio....hasn't worked yet.

 

[elkassassin]

>I am sure the renewal of
>the mule deer plan will
>be the exact same as
>the last 20+ years, with
>the addition of making a
>late season muzzy hunt...we will
>stay status quo...my suggestion is
>like others is we go
>to 4 point or better
>on all units....yes bucks don't
>produce your fawns but we
>have been trying same thing
>for years and it's not
>working...keep tag numbers the same,
>4 point on one antler,
>and give it a go..DWR
>will say deer will get
>shot and left, but how
>many 100-500...that is still a
>lot less than the 20,000
>2 points each year...if someone
>makes a mistake they call
>it in and pay a
>fine and don't loose hunting,
>if they don't call it
>in and get busted they
>get bigger fine and revoke
>hunting for 3 years..try something
>different stop trying the buck
>to doe ratio....hasn't worked yet.
>

I Agree with cant on this!

Only make it a 50,000.00 Fine & Lose Hunting Rights for Life for 'Not Looking before you shoot'/'TARDville Mentality'!

This Buck to Doe Ratio is BS Management!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19 AT 08:14AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19 AT 08:13?AM (MST)

I like the 4 point or better hell I'll take 3 point or better

I have spent more time on the mountain than the biologist has and more than the Fish and Game has and that is a fact,I've only seen a fish cop twice on that mountain and no other DNR people at all the whole time I've been up there this season.

I live 20 minutes from my hunting spots,I have seen 300 plus deer and only 15 bucks,and here it is muzzleloader elk and I only have seen 2 bucks one spike and one 2 point,sadly there are the ones breeding the doe's right now.

This is my second year in the dedicated hunter program.I didn't kill one my first year because they where all to small and this year was even worse,I'll probably just shoot an old dry doe on the extended because there wont be any bucks left to breed them all,the other thing that I have notice was we have a lot of small fawns that won't make it this winter which that tells me there is not enough bucks to go around and breed them at the right time.

I also have a multi season elk tag,So yes I have hunted a lot more than most people do,I have seen the writing on the wall and I have voiced my concerns but it doesn't do any good remember the biologist has the final say and It's the best they have seen in years BS.

The buck to doe ratio isn't working at all,we need a change and yesterday.

Two more things technology is killing off a lot of are animals.All the side x side and Atv trails that go everywhere now Isn't helping the situation Either.

 

[slamdunk]

Excellent post elkslayer!!?

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19
>AT 08:14?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19
>AT 08:13?AM (MST)
>
>I like the 4 point or
>better hell I'll take 3
>point or better
>
>I have spent more time on
>the mountain than the biologist
>has and more than the
>Fish and Game has and
>that is a fact,I've only
>seen a fish cop twice
>on that mountain and no
>other DNR people at all
>the whole time I've been
>up there this season.
>
>I live 20 minutes from my
>hunting spots,I have seen 300
>plus deer and only 15
>bucks,and here it is muzzleloader
>elk and I only have
>seen 2 bucks one spike
>and one 2 point,sadly there
>are the ones breeding the
>doe's right now.
>
>This is my second year in
>the dedicated hunter program.I didn't
>kill one my first year
>because they where all to
>small and this year was
>even worse,I'll probably just shoot
>an old dry doe on
>the extended because there wont
>be any bucks left to
>breed them all,the other thing
>that I have notice was
>we have a lot of
>small fawns that won't make
>it this winter which that
>tells me there is not
>enough bucks to go around
>and breed them at the
>right time.
>
>I also have a multi season
>elk tag,So yes I have
>hunted a lot more than
>most people do,I have seen
>the writing on the wall
>and I have voiced my
>concerns but it doesn't do
>any good remember the biologist
>has the final say and
>It's the best they have
>seen in years BS.
>
>The buck to doe ratio isn't
>working at all,we need a
>change and yesterday.
>
>Two more things technology is killing
>off a lot of are
>animals.All the side x side
>and Atv trails that go
>everywhere now Isn't helping the
>situation Either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I mentioned the Same Things Years ago!

But Nobody wanted to Listen!

It's a Real F'N Joke!

It Ain't gonna Change!

Wait a Minute!

Yes it Will!

It'll get Worse!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Muleman1]

^

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

The dwr seems to make changes and implements them very quickly. How hard is it to cut tags and make antler Point restrictions or whatever is needed. My goodness it's not that hard, just do it, already.

 

[Comules]

>The dwr seems to make changes
>and implements them very quickly.
>How hard is it to
>cut tags and make antler
>Point restrictions or whatever is
>needed. My goodness it's not
>that hard, just do it,
>already.


Yes! But what about the $$$$ they will lose

 

[headshot05]

Reduce tags and raise the price on the tags to mitigate the money they're short from cutting them.
Manage each unit separately.
More seasons with less hunters in each season would be fine. Just reduce total permits.
Get rid of the dedicated hunter program.
Make every unit 4 point on one side or better.
Get rid of ?GENERAL SEASON? units, they're already limited entry anyway.
You draw a tag you lose your points regardless of what choice it was. This will eliminate point creep in a hurry. If people want to wait 30 yrs to hunt the Henry?s so be it. There will still be units that can be drawn every year. And it they regulate them correctly there will be better bucks.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

headshot05 what is the problem with the DH program?

 

[Castnshoot]

https://share.icloud.com/photos/04o8NymbHF0m9fTVXPxZf372Q

 

[headshot05]

>headshot05 what is the problem with
>the DH program?


Everyone?s complaining about deer numbers and this is your response lmao.
Let me see, um maybe the fact a person gets to hunt 3 seasons, for 3 years. Granted you can only harvest 2 deer. But you get 9 seasons to do it.
I thought we wanted to give the deer a chance?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-19 AT 11:04AM (MST)[p]headshot05 HAHA Okay maybe you should do a little more research on DH

It's 12 season actually if you count extended and while your at it why don't you look at the harvest success% for DH and then pull up the rifle success% and get back to me

I just turned my tag back in 15 minutes ago for the second year and I know of many others that did the same...