Vernon mule deer scouting

W

WesternTines

Member
Messages
5
Heading out to Vernon this weekend and wanted to know what the snow was looking like and where I can find the deer. Just wanting to go do some scouting and take some pictures. Any info helps! I don't expect to be given honey holes just want to get some tips or a general area. Thank you!
 
I need some new shed hunting spots to so post them up boys!



37205hornkiller.jpg
 
Oh you cynic, can't you see the seriousness in his post. He's only wanting to take pics!!!
 
Did I ask for spots? No I did not. Obviously no one is gonna give me spots. I'm gonna work for the spots as did everyone else. All I asked for is some tips or a general area. These fourms are a joke, Thanks anyway
 
Well I don't think finding deer is too hard in the snow..... Obviously you have never been out to the area if your wondering where the deer are. So to me and probably everyone else your looking for a general area to shed hunt..... If it was closer to the hunts and you asked people would probably tell you the sheep rocks and a couple other places. With the snow out there drive around then glass... not to hard to find a tracks to figure out where the deer are.
 
Sit at the Cafe before light and follow the first truck you see with a bunch of Antler stickers in the back window. They will lead you right to them. Haha.
 
Christ get in your pick up truck buy onx and burn some boot leather. I'll bet there is a ##### ton of snow if I was to guess. I'd take a diesel out there if it was me. They get around good in that terrain. What an original choice for a screen name.

"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
 
180% of normal snow for the year.Probably lots of mud.Some of the deer migrate out to the desert ranges for the winter.
 
>Well I don't think finding deer
>is too hard in the
>snow..... Obviously you have never
>been out to the area
>if your wondering where the
>deer are. So to me
>and probably everyone else your
>looking for a general area
>to shed hunt..... If it
>was closer to the hunts
>and you asked people would
>probably tell you the sheep
>rocks and a couple other
>places. With the snow out
>there drive around then glass...
>not to hard to find
>a tracks to figure out
>where the deer are.
Eh.... I'm not so convinced it's that easy! I remember a truck ride last year where we struggled to even find a set of tracks to follow. Much less an actual live deer ? and we covered some ground!!
 
Just drive around until u see some dish*ts wearing flatbrims and kuiu gear in a diesel truck with tines up stickers and toy antlers hanging on the mirror. The deer should be running out in front of them. Always stop and say hi to them cowboys. They might share their monster drink or coors light.
 
>Just drive around until u see
>some dish*ts wearing flatbrims and
>kuiu gear in a diesel
>truck with tines up stickers
>and toy antlers hanging on
>the mirror. The deer should
>be running out in front
>of them. Always stop and
>say hi to them cowboys.
>They might share their monster
>drink or coors light.

LOL!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>Heading out to Vernon this weekend
>and wanted to know what
>the snow was looking like
>and where I can find
>the deer. Just wanting to
>go do some scouting and
>take some pictures. Any info
>helps! I don't expect to
>be given honey holes just
>want to get some tips
>or a general area. Thank
>you!


Don't waste your time scouting here in the winter.
 
Load that pickup truck full hay bales and grounded corn.
park along side the road and get out your camera.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>>Vernon unit will be a sh!t
>>show this year...
>
>
>Why do you say that Slammy?
>


All these tags being given away out there are causing quite a stir.
 
>>>Vernon unit will be a sh!t
>>>show this year...
>>
>>
>>Why do you say that Slammy?
>>
>
>
>All these tags being given away
>out there are causing quite
>a stir.


That's because they're trying to get rid of all those 3x4 genes that are EVERYWHERE. I live here and I'd choose Book Cliffs.
 
You guys SUCK. Why you gotta act like that.

Dude just wants to do IG posts with some horn and you guys hate on him. How else is a guy ever supposed to get famous if you all won't tell him where to go?

The guy had 3 previous posts(guessing the same question in deer section, elk section, general) so he obviously is good for returning the favor.

Bro. Hook a brother up





"I don't care if the season is closed. Get off your butt and go hunt them"

TRISTATE
3/11/19

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>>>Vernon unit will be a sh!t
>>>show this year...
>>
>>
>>Why do you say that Slammy?
>>
>
>
>All these tags being given away
>out there are causing quite
>a stir.

quite a stir with who?
 
>>>>Vernon unit will be a sh!t
>>>>show this year...
>>>
>>>
>>>Why do you say that Slammy?
>>>
>>
>>
>>All these tags being given away
>>out there are causing quite
>>a stir.
>
>quite a stir with who?


Where you been ridge??
 
>>>>>Vernon unit will be a sh!t
>>>>>show this year...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Why do you say that Slammy?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>All these tags being given away
>>>out there are causing quite
>>>a stir.
>>
>>quite a stir with who?
>
>
>Where you been ridge??

Hey PUNK!

You gotta SPLAIN Sshhiittt in Major Detail for Ridge!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-19 AT 06:41AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-19 AT 06:40?AM (MST)

>>
>>
>>Where you been ridge??
>
>Hey PUNK!
>
>You gotta SPLAIN Sshhiittt in Major
>Detail for Ridge!

The fact that I don't spend most of my days on here tends to lead to the fact that I do miss a few things talked about.

It would be more helpful to "SPLAIN" things in a little more detail instead of just throwing out general hyperbole statements all the time.

Are you talking about the advertised 10 landowner tags that are going to be drawn this summer causing the "sh!t show"?
 
>It would be more helpful to
>"SPLAIN" things in a little
>more detail instead of just
>throwing out general hyperbole statements
>all the time.
>
>Are you talking about the advertised
>10 landowner tags that are
>going to be drawn this
>summer causing the "sh!t show"?
>

Yup
 
>My understanding is that he bought
>10of the available land owner
>tags, not 10 tags added
>for his expo.


You are correct
 
GUARANTEED All 10 Hunters will want 240"+ Bucks!

GUARANTEED not all 10 Hunters will get a Buck that Big!

I'll settle for a DINK 220"ER!:D










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>GUARANTEED All 10 Hunters will want
>240"+ Bucks!
>
>GUARANTEED not all 10 Hunters will
>get a Buck that Big!
>
>
>I'll settle for a DINK 220"ER!:D
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm willing to make another bet that most won't kill a buck over 180"
 
The thing about the 10 tags is that they were all ready being used. Its not like they pulled 10 new tags out of the hat and went from 100 tags to 110 tags or what ever they have. Its still the same # of tags for the unit. Now its just not a high roller :) buying the tag. Its an average guy who has a chance at the tag. I like it.
 
>The thing about the 10 tags
>is that they were all
>ready being used. Its
>not like they pulled 10
>new tags out of the
>hat and went from 100
>tags to 110 tags or
>what ever they have.
>Its still the same #
>of tags for the unit.
> Now its just not
>a high roller :) buying
>the tag. Its an
>average guy who has a
>chance at the tag.
>I like it.


I like it too.
 
I'll guarantee not one of the ten kills one over 185

"We don't have a gun problem we have prescription drug problem."
 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'll guarantee
>not one of the ten
>kills one over 185
>
> "We don't have a gun
>problem we have prescription drug
>problem."


I bet you're wrong. especially this year with the water and feed that will be available. I'm betting some deer blow up on that unit this year
 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll guarantee
>>not one of the ten
>>kills one over 185
>>
>> "We don't have a gun
>>problem we have prescription drug
>>problem."
>
>
>I bet you're wrong. especially this
>year with the water and
>feed that will be available.
>I'm betting some deer blow
>up on that unit this
>year

I hope your right but this year(so far) sure reminds me a lot of 2011 and that year didn't seem all that great for antler growth on units West of I-15.
 
>
>I hope your right but this
>year(so far) sure reminds me
>a lot of 2011 and
>that year didn't seem all
>that great for antler growth
>on units West of I-15.
>


there just isn't big deer west of I-15 to begin with. it wasnt just 2011, its every year
 
We haven't drawn yet but if we do I sure hope there are at least a few big deer on the Oak Creek unit which is west of I 15.
 
How many of the 10 tags drawn will get resold? It's will be an interesting year out there this year. I'll keep my fingers crossed that I pull one and turn my State drawn tag back in and keep my points! Lol
 
>How many of the 10 tags
>drawn will get resold?
>It's will be an interesting
>year out there this year.
> I'll keep my fingers
>crossed that I pull one
>and turn my State drawn
>tag back in and keep
>my points! Lol


Now THIS would be an ideal situation!?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-19
>AT 07:32?PM (MST)
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll guarantee
>>not one of the ten
>>kills one over 185
>>
>> "We don't have a gun
>>problem we have prescription drug
>>problem."
>
>
>Who cares??? 90% of draw
>hunters statewide will not kill
>a 185 buck.


True but probably over 50 percent are hoping to get one over 180". That seems to be the new standard.
 
:) I hope with the Vernon being so poor right now and all the negativity towards it that no one put's in for the tags and I draw four of them and me and my sons will go and have a awesome outing and see what kind of pisscutter's we can drum up :) :)

Good luck to them that put in and better luck to them that draw the tags.

Any time in the outdoors beat staying at work in the city :)
 
I'm curious as to why some guys are thinking these tags are going to make the the unit a #### show??
The Vernon is a big unit... but definitely suffering trophy quality. There are still some big deer to be had out there, but gotta dig and dig to find and stay on them.
 
You guys must have lots of money, its still gonna cost you 5k for your "monster" 170. I know what's in my back 40.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-19 AT 06:59AM (MST)[p]You guys don't think all this publicity on a unit so close to two major counties will draw even more curiosity, traffic and pressure out there?
Personally I don't care about this unit, and its only 30 minutes away, but there is no way all this publicity will not have some kind of affect going forward.
It is true the 10 tags were already there, but they have never been advertised or offered in a highly advertised lottery draw.
Heavy internet and social media advertising and numerous pictures of trophy bucks on a unit just outside a major metropolitan area....?

I am not saying I am against this, I am simply saying this will undoubtedly draw major attention out there.
 
Maybe I am missing something, but there is still the exact same amount of tags as the year before (unless the DWR drops or adds a few). So it wont change a thing. The only difference is that 10 landowner tags that were sold to family or friends or high bidder are now in a drawing. EVERYTHING else is still the same. Nothing will change, at least from what I see.
 
+1
How in the world does this change anything if it is the same # of tags? It is the Vernon unit-and it is not like someone has posted a picture of a 240? surviving buck from last year. A couple tags given away at an expo don't change what the Vernon is (a decent unit and nothing more).
 
Robi,
You?re a businessman. Tell me this. If RC Wiley?s does a giant media marketing blitz does it increase the traffic in their stores? Same tags for but added exposure will lead to more traffic on the unit.
 
>Robi,
>You?re a businessman. Tell me
>this. If RC Wiley?s
>does a giant media marketing
>blitz does it increase the
>traffic in their stores?
>Same tags for but added
>exposure will lead to more
>traffic on the unit.


Bingo!
 
The Henry mountains are also a very limited tag opportunity, but have you ever been down there during the shed season and any time during the late summer and see all the people looking at the big bucks?
Sure wasn't like that before it got all the publicity!
 
>Robi,
>You?re a businessman. Tell me
>this. If RC Wiley?s
>does a giant media marketing
>blitz does it increase the
>traffic in their stores?
>Same tags for but added
>exposure will lead to more
>traffic on the unit.


The Vernon is not in any way a secret. Everyone knows it exists, everyone knows there are decent-good deer out there. Everyone knows it's popular because it's close to the real world and is easily accessible and doesn't take a whole day to travel to get to. You guys act like that until this expo, the Vernon unit was not known about, except for the locals who live there. The draw odds have always been terrible for this unit considering the deer quality that is pulled from there. It's popular because it's close to town. Draw odds have sucked, do suck and will continue to suck. The expo coverage has nothing to do with that
 
deer,
I am not surprised in the slightest that you can't comprhend the discussion. You create added hype and people respond. You can look at studies on it across the board of any product.

I hope I draw one of the tags and hats off to Tony on a wonderful business plan. I also hope that the traffic does not increase but I believe human nature has shown otherwise.
 
More traffic? Lookout pass is normally full and the cherry reek area has recreational vehicles traveling every which way. I don't see the publicity of these tags causing any more commotion on that unit than there already is. Most of the hunting traffic is concentrated around one or two areas. It's not an easy unit to figure out that's for sure. Gotta spend a lot of time out there to find what big deer are out there. If a guy is willing to shoot big 3 points and less desireable LE bucks it can be a good hunt. The outfitters out there have done a number on the top end bucks over the years, and the elk have been pretty well slaughtered.
Just my opinion
 
Well for you guys who love that unit just as it is, I hope I'm wrong!

But on the other hand, I'm already hearing people seeing these social media ads and saying "I had no idea there were bucks like that out there, I better go take a look out there".
 
Slam,
After spending over 50 days scouting and hunting the unit last year I'm going to be interested to see how it all plays out. I think I got a good feel last year and I'll be able to see if it jumps this year.
 
I comprehend the discussion better than you apparently do. It's comical you think these 10 advertised tags will be the down fall for this unit. Like I said previously. Everyone knows this unit is there and that it can produce good deer, just like any other unit in the state. The amount of traffic this unit has yearly for recreational use is higher than others for the same reasons that the draw odds are terrible, for a sub par unit. It's close to the real world and is easy access for people to go enjoy the ?wilderness?. You ##### about the public tags being stolen from the public draw with the WHCE, and now you ##### about the private tags being offered at this expo. It's not like it's a GS unit that you can draw every year. This is a LE unit, that is lacking in quality, that you could hunt 2-3 times in your life if you are lucky. Relax, there's bigger issues to worry about
 
I'm headed out there this weekend for the first time to see what all the fuss is about, there's got to be a few sheds lying around.
And maybe I'll start throwing my 10 LE points there instead of the Book Cliffs ?

All joking aside....I hope it all works out and continues to be everything it has been!?
 
Deer,
The traffic would be what it is and has been. But you add in all the social media blitz?s and you can always expect more attention to what you're blitzing about. That will without question increase traffic. It's targeted to people specifically interested in hunting mule deer. It's a constant daily reminder on the social media feeds. Studies have shown this will attract interest in that subject. With it being a specific unit close to a large population it would lead one to believe it could be more than the Henry?s or Pauns. That's just based on my understanding of marketing and analytics of things like this. But maybe I'm wrong and I should just look at it more simple minded and say hey it's a mediocre LE unit and nobody pays attention to social media these days.
 
What's interesting is how worked up you are over the attention a less that great LE deer unit is receiving. You?d think a unit that is junk and having more people look at it, wouldn't be a big deal. Yet here you are post after post, on a site that hundreds if not thousands of people look at on a weekly basis, stating that the unit is sub par, but the attention being given to it, isn't good. Makes a guy start to believe that you do know big deer are still out there (you're not the only one, I know there still a few giants left out there too) and you're scared that the bad draw odds that are currently associated with this unit, are only going to get worse....

I'd much rather see land owner tags given away at these expos than public draw tags. It's 10 tags on an extremely hard unit to figure out. I highly doubt this unit will receive any more attention than it currently receives.
 
Deer,
I'm not wound up at all. I was just pointing out the unintelligent belief that these tags won't draw more attention to an area. Wouldn?t matter what unit or whether it was quailiy or not I'd still make the same arguement. As far as points my will burn this year anyway so that's not my angle either. Swing and a miss....again.
 
As far
>as points my will burn
>this year anyway so that's
>not my angle either.
>Swing and a miss....again.


Then why do you care?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-19 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]Slam said it would increases traffic. I agreed . Some simple minded people posted that was a crazy thought. I think added traffic on any unit can have its draw backs but I never really cared about that unit more than any other unit. I was just backing Slams logical assement of the situation.
 
I just cannot see how an event like the Big Outdoor Show spotlighting the Vernon unit to thousands of people will not have SOME kind effect on it.....guess I am simply overthinking it.
 
We went down to the show yesterday, and I was surprised that there wasn't more interest in the tags. I stopped at the booth and the girls were having a tough time getting anyone to buy chances, They did not know very much about the tag process or the unit and deer hunting. Don't know it it picked up after that, but it was a disappointing turnout from 1:00 until about 4:00 when we left.
 
The Vernon is packed with people from Easter through the hunts. I doubt a few more people driving the roads on their SxS will have much of an affect on anything. just my .02 cents.
 
>Robi,
>You?re a businessman. Tell me
>this. If RC Wiley?s
>does a giant media marketing
>blitz does it increase the
>traffic in their stores?
>Same tags for but added
>exposure will lead to more
>traffic on the unit.


Ok, I will bite.

Just so you know , you are comparing apples and oranges. So why not complain about the 200 Expo tags that are being offered? Does that not do THE EXACT SAME THING? Why are we not complaining about the increased traffic to all the PIMPED OUT UNITS in UTAH? IS this not the EXACT SAME THING? The only difference is, is that these were not public tags taken from the public draw. These Vernon tags were bought from the Land Owner Association out there. They have THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF TAGS as before.

I just cant believe that the Wasatch elk will be gone to shizz now.

I cant believe that the Manti will be gone to shizz now.

I mean, its "ALMOST" the exact same thing, yet you guys dont complain about what the Exop has done to our hunting units.

And Slam, this is not meant to be a low blow, because I truly am thankful for the project done last weekend. And you mention all the work was done from funds by the Expo. Can you imagine how much more could have been done if there was 90% or even 100% given back to the DWR for projects? On the same note, I would like to come and help on some of the next projects. So please let me know when they are. I need to come and support and help.
 
Robiland
I am not sure what the financial breakdown is exactly, but they have to be able to fund the corporate end of things.
I can assure you that the DNR would be in big trouble without conservation groups and the dollars they put back into the state to supplement the money allocated by the government alone. Even if it were only 50%, that's millions of dollars above and beyond what would fund the states wildlife programs by itself.

Thank you for your interest in helping out, we would love to have you. And if you are a dedicated hunter, the hours you work are all documented.
I don't post future projects on this forum because it seems to attract a lot of negativity, but I can PM you or you can catch my posts on Facebook. We have a huge project planned in June for the Spencer Fork area of the Nebo unit that burned up last summer. We will have a helicopter for this one to replace 5 guzzlers that were destroyed. This will be a 2 day event with camping on private property for all of us.
Hit me up if you'd like more info, and I'd be honored to have you help out.
 
Robi,
No they really are not the same at all. The Expo does not focus in a media blitz on one singular unit. I'm sure the Expo does draw some added exposure without a doubt I would never argue that. Just like I am not agrueing with Slams views that this will add attention to one single unit. It's crazy to me that you guess literally can not focus on anything other than SFW or the Expo. It's weird really. I'm not mad or upset at all, like I said tip of the hat to Tony for a smart business plan. But also open minded enough to acknowledge the reality that Slam also speaks of. I honestly can't imagine living my life so hung up on anything like you guys are hung up on those issues. Crazy to me I guess.
 
I for one had absolutely zero idea that many awesome bucks (the ones in the photos used for the advertising) had been taken out there, and I live 45 minutes away from it......and I know I am not alone.

I am not trying to argue my point, just simply stating a fact.
 
>I for one had absolutely zero
>idea that many awesome bucks
>(the ones in the photos
>used for the advertising) had
>been taken out there, and
>I live 45 minutes away
>from it......and I know I
>am not alone.
>
>I am not trying to argue
>my point, just simply stating
>a fact.

And that right there is the biggest problem, not extra traffic out there but the unrealistic fact that it's a hard unit to hunt. Most guys will not see those type of bucks as pictured in the ads.
There will be several people set up for disappointment.
The same as with the Oak Creeks, when there's a post stating how a tag sold for 30k+. People instantly think the unit must be awesome and there are big bucks running all over the place and you can take your pick of a OIL buck right from the road but that's simple not the case.
The unit has low deer numbers and most the bigger bucks are far from the roads, even with the limited pressure it gets.










see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
I certainly know the unit is NOT awesome and i am definitely not one to think big bucks are numerous on any unit, including the Henry's.
Will I ever apply for the Vernon unit? Nope, my points will go to a unit that offers me more realistic opportunities.

Having said that, there will most certainly be those who will.
 
Sorry Slammy, but you had your chance with the Pauns tag. Luckily you took a really nice buck. With the points you have now, you will either have to get real lucky or will be in a wheel chair before you ever pull a good deer tag in Utah again. Haha. Fingers crossed for you though man. With 16 points now, I am hoping to get my chance at the Pauns Muzzy soon.
 
>Sorry Slammy, but you had your
>chance with the Pauns tag.
>Luckily you took a really
>nice buck. With
>the points you have now,
>you will either have to
>get real lucky or will
>be in a wheel chair
>before you ever pull a
>good deer tag in Utah
>again. Haha. Fingers
>crossed for you though man.
> With 16 points now,
> I am hoping to
>get my chance at the
>Pauns Muzzy soon.

Lol you are correct!
I haven't even made it through my 5 year waiting, but I've gained a few elk point's.
When you draw your Paunsagunt tag, I better get an invite!!?
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-03-19 AT 06:39AM (MST)[p]>>I for one had absolutely zero
>>idea that many awesome bucks
>>(the ones in the photos
>>used for the advertising) had
>>been taken out there, and
>>I live 45 minutes away
>>from it......and I know I
>>am not alone.
>>
>>I am not trying to argue
>>my point, just simply stating
>>a fact.
>
>And that right there is the
>biggest problem, not extra traffic
>out there but the unrealistic
>fact that it's a hard
>unit to hunt. Most guys
>will not see those type
>of bucks as pictured in
>the ads.
>There will be several people set
>up for disappointment.
>The same as with the Oak
>Creeks, when there's a post
>stating how a tag sold
>for 30k+. People instantly think
>the unit must be awesome
>and there are big bucks
>running all over the place
>and you can take your
>pick of a OIL buck
>right from the road but
>that's simple not the case.
>
>The unit has low deer numbers
>and most the bigger bucks
>are far from the roads,
>even with the limited pressure
>it gets.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>see my latest wildlife pictures on
>I.G.
> Follow me @ antler_chaser_


Ridgetops knows what he's talking about. A friend shot a 3 year old 163bc 6x7 on the Bookcliffs, or you can get a 150 class 3x4, 4 year old buck on the Vernon take your pick.
 
I went out to the Vernon Unit to camp this last few days. Man the crowds were bad. I had a hard time trying to figure out which camping spot to take. In fact, we were the only campers there at the lake Sunday - Tuesday. Kind of nice. Coudnt get around very far up there. LOTS AND LOTS of snow. My family has been going there for spring break for 5 years now. We sometimes ran into snow in the high areas north facing areas. But man, we could only get about 1 mile past the lake and coudlnt really take any side roads either. Nice and quiet though. Did see lots of turkeys strutting around. That was fun.
 
Vernon,
a 163" buck on the Book Cliffs is not the norm. Having spent the last few seasons out on the Books, if you walked away with a 163" buck, you did really well. You would probably rank in the top 20% in bucks taken for a given year. I would also say that if you walked away from the Vernon with a 163" buck you would also be pushing that top 20% as well. There are some bruisers on both units, but they are diamonds in the rough now days. I think the best opportunity for a top end buck in either unit is with the stick flipper. Bucks seem to be more visable and patternable when they are packing that fuzzy stuff on their head.
 
Both units are fine examples of Utahs horrible management. Think about this for a quick minute. Colorado manages statewide for a buck to doe ratio of 40 buck per 100 does. That is in every unit. The Books currently is at 36 and the Vernon is at 44. And what is our state doing....increasing tags on those units.
 
They need to limit the tags on the books by quite a few before it is completely ruined. And maintain or slightly cut tags on the Vernon. I would like to see Utah some how get to the 40/100 split state wide. It can be done. But lots and lots of tags cut across the state. If Utah was anything like what I saw in Colorado last year, it would be a dream come true.
 
I completely agree Robiland. I hunt a unit in CO that I can draw every other year. We see better and more bucks in this unit in CO than I have seen in the Books or Vernon in the last few years. What if...... Right??
 
Cutting tags would no doubt help. And there are many other ways to get there. It's just a matter of making the changes and holding the DWR to a certain standard.
 
Comparing Utah's habitat and deer to Colorado's is truly comparing apples and oranges.
These LE units are not meant to be premium units.
Only the Pauns. and Henry's are managed with a 40/100 ratio and look how long it takes to draw those units.

Tag cuts are not the answer.
About the Vernon, I hunted it in 2002, which was a very bad drought year. I wasn't seeing the quality that I was expecting. When I asked around, just about everyone told me that the unit used to be great a couple years earlier but now had been shot out and needed tag cuts. Funny thing is, I've been hearing this same comment every couple years since then.
I was out looking at rutting bucks last year on the Oak Creeks and ran into a guy that told me the same thing. He felt that all the big bucks were being killed and the unit had been "shot out". With only 30-40 tags given out on the unit each year, it's hardly being shot out. Instead, bucks will be dying of old age.
Same with Vernon, There probably still a few bucks that die of old age in the harder to reach and glass areas.
 
Ridge,
That was a typical Utah hunter answer. It's also goes a long way in explaining exactly why Utah?s deer and elk and lope herds are the way they are.
 
Since your ideas seem to be in the minority. What makes you or your ideas so special to want everyone else to sacrifice for your specs.? It seems like the general public has or have been sacrificing plenty in the last couple years. Sure each sub unit could be tweaked some, so let's start there.
 
>Comparing Utah's habitat and deer to
>Colorado's is truly comparing apples
>and oranges.
>These LE units are not meant
>to be premium units.
>Only the Pauns. and Henry's are
>managed with a 40/100 ratio
>and look how long it
>takes to draw those units.
>
>
>Tag cuts are not the answer.
>
>About the Vernon, I hunted it
>in 2002, which was a
>very bad drought year. I
>wasn't seeing the quality that
>I was expecting. When I
>asked around, just about everyone
>told me that the unit
>used to be great a
>couple years earlier but now
>had been shot out and
>needed tag cuts. Funny thing
>is, I've been hearing this
>same comment every couple years
>since then.
>I was out looking at rutting
>bucks last year on the
>Oak Creeks and ran into
>a guy that told me
>the same thing. He felt
>that all the big bucks
>were being killed and the
>unit had been "shot out".
>With only 30-40 tags given
>out on the unit each
>year, it's hardly being shot
>out. Instead, bucks will be
>dying of old age.
>Same with Vernon, There probably still
>a few bucks that die
>of old age in the
>harder to reach and glass
>areas.


^^^^^ what he said. However I was a little disheartened to see the tag increases on the Vernon. If they cut the tags on units like Vernon, the Books could you imagine the backlog of point holders???? Hunters would be going nuts...
 
>Ridge,
>That was a typical Utah hunter
>answer. It's also goes
>a long way in explaining
>exactly why Utah?s deer and
>elk and lope herds are
>the way they are.


Maybe you can explain something to me. How is it that a GS unit, and there's several throughout the state, can produce multiple 200?+ deer a year, with thousands of hunters run through them annually, but a LE unit struggles to produce a big deer with just a few hundred hunters hunting them every year? What's the difference? You?d think that a LE unit would be crawling with them with such a limited number of hunters. If your theory was correct with tag cuts, then every LE unit would be producing giants year after year. When it's the opposite for the most part. You couldn't get me to trade my GS tags for 98% of the LE deer tags in Utah.
 
Why is it that one of two deer on a couple units are used as justification for statewide mismanagement.....because humans would rather stick to the status quo rather than strive for improvement.

LE or not the age structure on Books and Vernon is not where it could or should be. But it makes sense when we have those that support poor management in the name of opportunity.
 
>LE or not the age structure
>on Books and Vernon is
>not where it could or
>should be.

According to who? You?

10 years ago, guys were bitching about the lack of opportunities in Utah. Now they are crying about the lack of trophies. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Right now for the most part Utah is managing for opportunities. We can't have both in the state with the supply and demand it has. Other states are in a different boat, so they manage differently. If you want trophies, learn a GS unit well or spend a bunch of money and hunt out of state in a place that manages to your liking. Never will anyone be satisfied when it comes to this. Me personally I'd rather see opportunities than trophies. If a person is willing, there is great trophy hunting on opportunity hunts. You get when you put into them
 
Again I'm talking Health, natural number of mature bucks. But hey we live in a state that has been know to claim 3-5 buck per 100 doe is healthy....all in the name of opportunity.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-19 AT 09:33AM (MST)[p]>Again I'm talking Health, natural number
>of mature bucks. But
>hey we live in a
>state that has been know
>to claim 3-5 buck per
>100 doe is healthy....all in
>the name of opportunity.


Again, I'm still waiting for you to answer my original question. What is unique to the Vernon, where bucks can't grow to a mature age with such a low hunter harvest number every year compared to a GS unit that has literally thousands more hunters through it every year, but still can produce multiple mature, trophy deer. One is managed for quality/trophy and the other is managed for opportunity.

I know a couple guys that I'm sure if you gave them a Vernon tag every year, they could produce ?trophy? bucks consistently. The deer are there. I've seen them. They just don't hang out where the majority of the hunters frequent
 
Deer,
I didn't say there aren't some trophy deer. I said that it's mismanged. Yes you can find big deer in most units if you put in the time. Vernon produced some of the biggest bucks in the state last year. But having spent over 50 days on the units scouting and hunting last year I can tell you that the age class of deer is not where it should be on a Limited Entry unit. Some of that is due to over herd numbers. Some of it is due to the desert habitat that makes up a huge portion of the unit. Some of it is due to the accessibility of the unit. All things to consider when setting tag numbers and allocation of tags.

It's mismangement across the board. CO and UT are like comparing Apples and Oranges. But the biggest difference is the approach and attitude of the Divisions and public.
 
Right now the push is for opportunity. More than trophy for the most part. Until that changes, you aren't going to see what you are looking for. They have over harvested every LE unit in Utah for every species in the effort to create more opportunities. Like I said, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Agreed! But the truth is 90% of hunters just go with the flow. The Division supports opportunity because it's the easiest path. Not because it's biologically sound. I'm sure they will soon issue another loaded question survey to support there lack of desire to actually manage any of the herds.

QUESTION 1 - Would you rather hunt or would you rather not hunt?

Every Sportsmans answer. I'd rather hunt than not hunt of course.

DWRs Analysis- Hunters would rather hunt above all else. Result, status quo and slow overall tag increases.

Tag numbers based on DWR model- Model that has led to the hunts for elk on Fishlake and Pronghorn on Plateu to be completely closed due to overharvest and inaccurate numbers.

Until hunters force the issue of more accurate and healthy management of our herds the DWR will stick to status quo even at the cost of losing our resource.
 
You?re incorrect on the 2 hunts you gave as examples. If you wanna be pissed at someone for the ##### show those hunts have turned into the and over harvest of animals, be mad at the cattlemen. They cry, ##### and moan every year that there are too many animals on the landscape that are taking feed away from their cattle. Low animal numbers are often times as a result of a public land graze moocher crying about the feed they feel they are entitled to. That's a whole separate issue
 
I'll agree that there are some sub units that need to be managed better but Vernon(except for the winter range) is not one of them.
As for status quo, I was thinking the same thing when there have been no tag increases on the Vernon in the past three years. Finally the DWR is seeing the light and a few more bucks can be taken.













see my latest wildlife pictures on I.G.
Follow me @ antler_chaser_
 
Deer,
Are you saying that cattlemen set the tag numbers ? Because i still look at it as DWR taking the easy road and mismanaging by taking the easiest route.

As far as the two units I mentioned. I brought those two up specifically because when I asked Anis directly about both of those herds he brought up the model showing they could handle the proposed tag increases.
 
Ridge,
Are you positIve that there has been no tag increases in the past three years on the Vernon?
 
>Ridge,
> Are you positIve that there
>has been no tag increases
>in the past three years
>on the Vernon?


Go check out the past records.
 

Similar threads

WannaXbe
New Mexico Mule deer
Replies
3
Views
665
WannaXbe
WannaXbe
Zim
27 Deer Points
Replies
66
Views
4k
Zim
Zim
WannaXbe
Muzzle loader Mule Deer tag
Replies
0
Views
164
WannaXbe
WannaXbe

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

20210713_115254.jpg
20191102_083307.jpg
fullsizeoutput_3c9c.jpeg
CC85C257-D8A4-4403-9708-C4C4FD99D9C6.jpeg
Big Archery Bull
Screenshot_20211109-225500_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20230802_090047_Gallery.jpg
IMG_2154.JPG
8ADED433-D2F9-4C63-92D4-49BDBCF30BFE.jpeg
deer.jpg
Screenshot_20211109-225345_Video Player.jpg
Screenshot_20210912-172851_Gallery.jpg
Bearpaw Outfitters

Experience world class hunting for mule deer, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep and more.

Wild West Outfitters

Hunt the big bulls, bucks, bear and cats in southern Utah. Your hunt of a lifetime awaits.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, shiras moose and mountain lions.

Shane Scott Outfitting

Quality trophy hunting in Utah. Offering FREE Utah drawing consultation. Great local guides.

Utah Big Game Outfitters

Specializing in bighorn sheep, mule deer, elk, mountain goat, lions, bears & antelope.

Apex Outfitters

We offer experienced guides who hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Sheep, Bison, Goats, Cougar, and Bear.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer high quality hunts on large private ranches around the state, with landowner vouchers.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and bison hunts in the Book Cliffs and Henry Mtns.

Lickity Split Outfitters

General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

Back
Top Bottom