^^^ That boys and girls is why Preference Points will never go away.I received my Wyoming Outdoors publication in the mail today and they had a little breakdown on where the license revenue comes from for the state of WY. I was surprised the % from non-residents was so high!
$12M in preference points alone!
I wish it were 110%, then I’d get paid to go hunting. LOL.I saw that,,,,12M!! NR's foot close to 50% of the overall budget.
Actually, look at the bottom right hand corner of the picture.I saw that,,,,12M!! NR's foot close to 50% of the overall budget.
Rest assured that 90/10 is not going away. I am more in favor of the change for moose, sheep goat and bison, in which case the revenue is easily replaced and then some to make up for some PP loss. This is going to be a topic in the newly formed Wildlife Task Force.I saw this also and wondered if it would get posted. Some of our friends in Wyoming all say the revenue could be replaced. I also saw that some of the biggest deer were shot by celebrity hunters. Seems some may get the biggest bucks available saved for them.
Rich
Yes, 77% of license fees and related revenue, but just over 50% of overall budget. Yours is a common misperception.Actually, look at the bottom right hand corner of the picture.
NR is 77%
Yes, we do pay to play but *Wyoming* has been very generous to the visiting hunters! I hope this trend continues but my fear is the residents will eventually get their way, at least on the more exotic species.Lots of people with money to burn on preference points!
Non-residents sure do pony up a large chunk of the revenue for just a little tiny portion of the tags.
Yep, residents don't want to lose any hunting opportunity either so they'll keep up the fight and will win in the end. I guess we've just got to make the most of it while opportunity, health and money will allow us to. I know my opportunity at tags is limited, so I'll be making the most of each by valuing them as though each is my last.Yes, we do pay to play but *Wyoming* has been very generous to the visiting hunters! I hope this trend continues but my fear is the residents will eventually get their way, at least on the more exotic species.
None of the western States are as kind to nonresidents as they are to their residents. That's just the way it is. Period.
We'll all play by the rules but I hope they don't change.
Zeke
For now, Just a matter of time until residents will get to pay to play.Funded by hunters and anglers, Wyoming Game and Fish weathering state's budget storm - Powell Tribune
At a time that the State of Wyoming is struggling to find ways to shore up the budget, the Game and Fish Department continues to find ways to afford major expenditures, from construction …www.powelltribune.com
As my link says non-residents are paying for elk, deer and antelope points and residents don't. The wyoga cant break that down. sounds better when non-residents paid 12 million and residents pay much less. piss poor report on wyoga part.
Wyoming desperately needs non-res. money for antelope, doe and cow tags and whitetail deer hunts in the Black Hills and on fully outfitted and private ranch hunts. Not so much on DIY, public land hunts for bucks n bulls, and rare draw species. Please continue to support us, like and subscribe, favorite us and leave a comment below. LOL.For now, Just a matter of time until residents will get to pay to play.
Honestly don't care it if it goes away or not. I have always felt that Wyoming is more than fair to NR's and am thankful for what I have been able to hunt there. It is just the prevailing attitude in society any more. Me, me, me, socialism, life is not fair, I should get mine, placing people in groups, us versus them. Life isn't fair and it won't be even after 90/10.Rest assured that 90/10 is not going away. I am more in favor of the change for moose, sheep goat and bison, in which case the revenue is easily replaced and then some to make up for some PP loss. This is going to be a topic in the newly formed Wildlife Task Force.
I’ve known Sy for many years. We text back and forth every now and then about things. I really don’t know much about Sy and WYOGA other than we both want to keep as many NR tags available as possible. I have more shared interests there than with most who want to decrease NR tags. So, I’m routing for them to succeed in keeping tag numbers where they are.Sy and WYOGA. The biggest "special interest hunting group" in Wyoming. Looks like old Sy is recruiting Founder and MM. Shocking.....
Who are the members of this task force and how did it get created? What authority does it have? Does it plan on addressing any of the non residents concerns over point creep and the current system?"Landowners would like to transfer their licenses but I truly hope that never happens."
I doubt this will ever happen, but most landowners don't actively advocate for this, it's the outfitters who lease their lands that do.
The Task Force will make some recommendations, but those will still have to go through the public process as required by law. It is also my understanding the public will also be allowed comments at the Task Force meetings.
I'm sure NR point creep is not on the agenda. Point creep is nothing more than less tags or more applicants or both. Happens in the random draw too. I highly doubt anyone will care much about NR drawing odds and I don't say that for spite.After reading the outline on the fish and game website, I fear that the few who get a seat on the board will have major power in the decisions being made about hunting structure and tag allocation. Seems like a special favor, scratch my back type of task force.
Again I ask, will this group make suggestions on behalf of non residents to solve point creep problems before they before they get too out of hand? Because I guarantee if/when the state goes to 90/10 it WILL be terrible. Any 6-9pt area for deer, elk, antelope will turn into OIL tags, unless you draw on the random side. In addition, opportunity will continue to drop as only non resident tags are being slashed in general deer areas (looking at you g and h).
I'm sure NR point creep is not on the agenda. Point creep is nothing more than less tags or more applicants or both. Happens in the random draw too. I highly doubt anyone will care much about NR drawing odds and I don't say that for spite.
Im referencing the system, not the allocations. As I stated, their guide pool is crap. No point system works and all have creep.New Mexico is closest? Wow maybe you need to look into that a little deeper. I think most of us who have been around a little while remember how bad NM screwed the NR not too long ago. However, I don't ***** about it on the internet just choose not to spend my money there. If Wyoming went that route you would really be up in arms. Just saying...
Point creep/lower random drawing odds = same thing. Much ado about nothing.Im referencing the system, not the allocations. As I stated, their guide pool is crap. No point system works and all have creep.
Most states do something good, but none of them have a perfect system. You could model a new system off of several states and have a pretty darn good one and still bring in the same amount of revenue.
Oh, but some like jim's, think the outfitters are all NRs have going for them...Dang all that money and we still can't go into a wilderness area without paying a lot of money to that outfitter group..........
Enjoy both of these while you can. My bet is they are gone in less than 10 years. I hope you guys can keep it going longer, But I'm not too optimistic.Residents do not want PP and we want our general deer licenses too.
I know how you feel, but that's a crap way of doing business! That's why our country is where its at politically, screw the other guy. There are other states that provide more than 10% to non residents, or have some sort of unlimited quota tag, and you know it. If you want to reduce tags, use a better excuse than what's quoted above. It just makes you sound like an a hole.it only seems appropriate we return the favor.
I agree that his number 1 objective is protecting his pocket book. That said I don’t see where Sy lobbying for more NR tags is disadvantageous to said Nonresidents.I'm sure if you ask the savior of all things NR, Sy and his cronies (WYOGA), to help out with the wilderness law they would be glad to help. Maybe if you reach out to him he can start a group text to include you and founder. Anyone who thinks Sy is pro-NR has their head in the sand. Sy is only protecting his pocketbook and his cronies at WYOGA.
ss13 what do U want residents to do about nonresident point creep? We as residents have to put up with our own point creep moose sheep and mt goat. I dont see residents on here crying about there favorite deer or elk areas going from %30 draw odds to %15 resident draw odds... Maybe I should go to the Colorado site and ask the residents to help me out with point creep in Colorado since i am invested 10 preference for deer and elk...
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by the general tags you are referring to. The general tags for deer are entirely separate from the LQ and as far as elk goes whatever remains after the LQ drawing is deducted from the statute quota is distributed as general licenses. In theory 90/10 would actually help your general elk license draw odds, but I guess that’s a topic for another day. Antelope is really where NR would take the biggest hit.Not sure if your reply it honest or sarcastic, but I’ll do my best to reply. To be clear, in my mind this is not just a WY issue, we just happen to be talking on a WY specific forum.
What should residents do to address non resident creep? Well, I guess the first thing to figure out is, is creep a real issue. At the moment, under current WY structure, no it’s not. In my opinion, under current structure it wouldnt be a problem for 8-10 years. With the 90-10 split, which will eventually happen, creep will instantly double in LE areas. General areas will follow suite and increase rapidly as years pass. I believe with a 90-10 split that in 10 years if you want to draw a LE tag (big 3, deer, elk and some antelope) or even some general deer you’ll need max points or win the random draw. Is this a problem, I think so. What happens 20 or 30 years down the road? Will we be ok with deer and elk tags taking 20 or more points?
What do I expect Wy residents to do? Well, it would be nice for conversation to begin that actually admits that the point system is broken. That would be a start. If, big if, that happens, then begin developing a system that is fair for all (new into the system vs back end of career). There are ways to provide revenue and also eliminate pts.
Wy system isn’t terrible and it’s treading water with the current tag allotment. But soon it’ll also begin to drown like all other point systems across the west. Given enough time, all fail.
Colorado’s system is crap compared to Wy. 3rd and 4th season deer and all LE elk are on life support there. The only reason you can still draw a tag with few points is because they have so many seasons to choose from. Oh, and they give out more than 10%.
I agree with you but at the same time a NR can’t hunt the wilderness or find that trespass fee if he has no tag to even hunt. I’m just saying a guy could agree with Wyoga on tag allocation but still be enemies by Monday over everything else. Heck we can all be honest I don’t expect residents to lobby for NR opportunity at a loss of their own.Let's see...close down the wilderness to NR and lease up all the private so NR can't even pay a trespass fee anymore. Yup, sounds like a Sy is really helping the NR. Sy is only interested in the NR who hires an outfitter, not the NR DIY guy/gal. Next, he will be asking for outfitter sponsored NR tags out of the NR pool/quota. Be careful what you wish for or who you stand with.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean by the general tags you are referring to. The general tags for deer are entirely separate from the LQ and as far as elk goes whatever remains after the LQ drawing is deducted from the statute quota is distributed as general licenses. In theory 90/10 would actually help your general elk license draw odds, but I guess that’s a topic for another day. Antelope is really where NR would take the biggest hit.
Hmmm, Wyo G&F gets $12 million from NR PP system, don't see that going away anytime soon.What do I expect Wy residents to do? Well, it would be nice for conversation to begin that actually admits that the point system is broken. That would be a start. If, big if, that happens, then begin developing a system that is fair for all (new into the system vs back end of career). There are ways to provide revenue and also eliminate pts.
No, that was Robb Wiley. Sy was not for that.Was Sy one of the outfitters that pushed for NR tags to be reduced in G and H?
Thanks.No, that was Robb Wiley. Sy was not for that.
So, are you saying points aren’t broken or your unwilling to work on a solution? Clearly residents don’t want points for a reason! The residents of WY know it’s a garbage system. But for NR’s, it’s fine. Got it. HahaHmmm, Wyo G&F gets $12 million from NR PP system, don't see that going away anytime soon.
And there is no system that is fair for all. Next?
Exactly! That’s how I see it.I agree that his number 1 objective is protecting his pocket book. That said I don’t see where Sy lobbying for more NR tags is disadvantageous to said Nonresidents.
Go talk to your outfitter buddies and let them solve the preference point problem, they're the ones that pushed it. Also the ones that pushed for the high fees to go with points. Why T.F. should the average wyoming resident be saddled with a bunch of crap we didn't create? Solve your own problems...not my pig, not my farm.So, are you saying points aren’t broken or your unwilling to work on a solution? Clearly residents don’t want points for a reason! The residents of WY know it’s a garbage system. But for NR’s, it’s fine. Got it. Haha
Wyoming could also require you to buy a yearly, nonrefundable license just like Utah and Nevada. That should help make up some of the difference.This thread was started by nonresidents who where bragging about 12 million dollars in preference point dollars do U really think Wyoming is going to give that up? How do U propose Wyoming making up 12 million dollars from there budget? Are U willing to pay more for Ur nonresident tags? Maybe a sit amount nonrefundable application fee weather a nonresident draw or not..
Go talk to your outfitter buddies and let them solve the preference point problem, they're the ones that pushed it. Also the ones that pushed for the high fees to go with points. Why T.F. should the average wyoming resident be saddled with a bunch of crap we didn't create? Solve your own problems...not my pig, not my farm.
None of them would be a mess. A majority of pronghorn tags drawn by NRs are tags residents don't even apply for. All it would do is give more tags to residents in the better areas and free up tags in other areas for NRs that residents don't draw on second choices. Just a shift in where residents draw more tags, revenue wouldn't change.From my understanding of the 90-10, you are correct about elk. That number of guaranteed tags is locked in by law. So, less Lq tags would mean more general. Point still stands that pts needed to draw would double overnight is 90-10 goes through. That creates other issues, but like you said, another day. My point about general was in reference to region deer tags. A lack of Lq deer tags will cause the overflow into region tags. That will cause substantial creep across the board. Like you said, antelope would be a mess.
Finally someone who gets it. It’s a very complex issue and some on this forum feel they are the only ones who are correct. Those same people can’t have a civilized discussion without shitting all over anyone who disagrees. Those people also just happen to foot most of the bill in Wy.Comes down to $! Take a look at the original post. The budget would be a mess without nonres support. If pt creep converts to pt leap with 90/10 you can be guaranteed a chunk of nonres will drop out of wyo draws. Not only will wyo loose $ from every tag that originally sold for big money to nonres and sell for a fraction of the price to res but they will loose all the pref pt $ as nonres drop out of the draws. Why pay $30 to $150/species each year for pref pts when draw odds are cut in 1/2 and it takes twice long to draw tags?
Buzz and others disagree but nonres bring big $$$$ to small town communities that are also lost revenue with 90/10.
Wyo’s economy is in the pits and covid isn’t helping out. How the heck is wyo going to generate the millions lost? There’s no way wyo is going to 90/10 in the near future but isn’t it fun quarreling about it! The same ole....same ole if you ask me!
Hunt the state you reside in if you don't like it...easy as that. Oh and rumor is another 90-10 bill is going to be pushed again. Marathon, not a sprint...it will pass eventually, just like everything else that comes up year after year. Enough residents are wanting to improve their odds of drawing better tags...those we vote for can only take so much heat before they have to act. Time favors the residents...Comes down to $! Take a look at the original post. The budget would be a mess without nonres support. If pt creep converts to pt leap with 90/10 you can be guaranteed a chunk of nonres will drop out of wyo draws. Not only will wyo loose $ from every tag that originally sold for big money to nonres and sell for a fraction of the price to res but they will loose all the pref pt $ as nonres drop out of the draws. Why pay $30 to $150/species each year for pref pts when draw odds are cut in 1/2 and it takes twice long to draw tags?
Buzz and others disagree but nonres bring big $$$$ to small town communities that are also lost revenue with 90/10.
Wyo’s economy is in the pits and covid isn’t helping out. How the heck is wyo going to generate the millions lost? There’s no way wyo is going to 90/10 in the near future but isn’t it fun quarreling about it! The same ole....same ole if you ask me!
Why would you want to hunt Wyoming anyway? All we have around here are a bunch of 3x3s.I grew up in wyo and enjoy returning and hunting as a nonres as often as I can! Thank you wg&f for being kind to nonres!
Wyo res better anty-up or all your hours of work are a waste. My prediction is nothing major will change until you can talk wyo res into paying higher license fees! Right now it doesn’t seem like you have much support in that category? You have many marathons in front of you before you can replace big nonres revenue $$$$ in the cowboy state! Nonres are wyos friend not foe!!! Until you figure this out you’ll be running ultra- marathons!
Here's an interesting article from the Powell Tribune that mentions how important hunters (especially nonres hunters) are to supporting Wyo wildlife and the Wyoming economy!
Big game hunting in Wyoming a $300 million industry - Powell Tribune
Southwick Associates, a private outdoor recreation and economics firm, recently concluded that those hunters contributed more than $303.5 million to the state’s economy and supported 3,100 jobs. “With the decline in energy revenue, tourism is …www.powelltribune.com
I hunt Wyo mule deer because you have B&C 3x3's!
NR points aren't going anywhere, in any state. You can spin your wheels complaining about them or use them to your advantage. I have two trips locked in for WY for 2021, both due to points; I like them.
Not sure if this is a poke at me with your gps comment or what, but I can tell you, I didn’t fail, usually don’t, always enjoy my hunts, always see plenty of deer, never screamed about it and never demanded tags be taken away from residents.After reading some of these post I feel we could give non-residents 100% of the tags and wilderness access and they would still complain on how unfair they are being treated.
Some of these non-residents come in and hunt an area and they fail. blame it on lack of deer, management, to many resident hunters and SCREAM and demand tags be taken away from residents and of course sell gps locations..
Every time I hear or see this the more I believe in a 90/10 and keeping the wilderness law. If ya want to whine us residents will give ya damn good reason to whine.
After reading some of these post I feel we could give non-residents 100% of the tags and wilderness access and they would still complain on how unfair they are being treated.
Some of these non-residents come in and hunt an area and they fail. blame it on lack of deer, management, to many resident hunters and SCREAM and demand tags be taken away from residents and of course sell gps locations..
Every time I hear or see this the more I believe in a 90/10 and keeping the wilderness law. If ya want to whine us residents will give ya damn good reason to whine.
Gladly, if points were $10 each.Wyoming could also require you to buy a yearly, nonrefundable license just like Utah and Nevada. That should help make up some of the difference.
Wow. Everyone knows what NR contribute in license fees and points. You should go back and read those resident comments again. Apparently, you may be the only one "butt-hurt" on this thread. This happens every year when the discussion of tag allocations comes up. I'll say it again, as long as opportunity decreases, residents will look toward an advantage when Wyoming is so generous with NR tags. That's it, I don't hate NR, in fact have made good friends on here and with other NR I have met in the field.? Pretty sure no one on here is asking for 100% of tags, or claimed they didn’t fill a tag because of lack of game or too many resident hunters. You can believe that, but it’s not true.
This was started because someone posted an article showing the amount of revenue non residents bring into the state via tags and points. After that the chest puffing started over a 90-10 split proposal and a “task force”. Next someone posted a good article about on average non residents spend more money per season in Wy than residents.
You and buzz may not like non residents, but we do provide revenue to the state at a higher rate than residents through hunting. Sure, a 90-10 split may happen, but your state will never ban non resident hunters. At least not in the immediate future. It’s amazing how butt hurt some people get when a person holds a different opinion, voices concerns they see, or challenges theories that are presented.
It’s squeaky wheel syndrome at its finest. Be loud and claim only you are correct, all while attempting to discredit and belittle others, in an attempt to gain allies. It’s like some bullies in politics trying to push an agenda that simply isn’t popular.
I’ve hunted Wy many times, have spoken to lots of locals both in town and on the mountain, gained free access to private and spent tons of money in the state. The people I’ve come in contact with have been generous, welcoming and friendly. Either I’ve been bamboozled all these years, or you guys are the minority. I’ll continue to spend money in the state and stay in contact with people I know. I’ll also treat anyone I come in contact with, with respect. But, I will not be friends with people who don’t want me around, or are too hard headed to have a civil conversation.
I don't understand why Buzz and others won't bring up Colorado when they try to make their point on 90/10, it needs to be part of the discussion, but the 90/10 crew always ignores it. Non-residents to western states, typically hunt either Colorado or Wyoming because they are the two most generous states to non-residents (I do know that Colorado only gives 10% of sheep/goat/moose tags to non-res) but up to 35% of other species tags with a minimum of 20% for high demand areas plus the OTC elk tags. I will look for the data to support this, but I bet Colorado and Wyoming are 1-2 in non-resident revenue by a long shot.I think that a 90-10 situation is inevitable in wyoming. As residents here are limited in nearly every other state to a maximum of 10% of tags in the states they apply for as NRs, it only seems appropriate we return the favor. It's always funny how all the NRs that come to wyoming expect more than 10% of the tags, yet none seem to give a chit the states they are residents in limit NRs to 10% down to zero in their home states. I'd rather trade applying in other states as a NR in other states for more opportunity here.
Maybe I’m blind, but other than moose and maybe some other of big three, where has opportunity decreased for residents? Unlimited general elk and deer tags. Stable LQ tag allocation (yes there is an ebb flow for some based on winter).I'll say it again, as long as opportunity decreases, residents will look toward an advantage when Wyoming is so generous with NR tags.
My post was also sarcasm. I am also referring that in other forums I have lost count how many times someone complains about a hunt area cause they saw nothing and didn't fill a tag. Region G is a hot topic. All it is complain about residents that get to hunt it every year.
You want my honest feelings. I am fine with how things are right now.. I haven't done the research and time to understand both sides and make to make a choice on where I should stand on the issue. Right now I am neutral.
So you would be happy to give NR 25% of your sheep tags or are you being the "goober"?We had the same problem in OR until we started screwing the NR hunters to the point most of them quit. and guess what, the hunting isn't any better and I still haven't drawn a sheep tag. maybe the NR wasn't the root of all evil as the resident goobers all claimed . we hunters have enough forces working against us we don't need to be trying to cut each others throat.
Any attitude you adopt would be an improvement, it always ends up with a couple a guys getting unhinged.I've been applying for a tag since I turned 12 in 1975 and haven't drawn so how much could it hurt me ?
Most of WY's sheep are on federal land, most of your fish and game is funded by the NR. the money NR hunters spend in WY is a boost to many local economies. is 25% too much ? maybe. but if you cut it to 10% the next year you'd push to cut it to 5%. it's no skin of my azz I took a nice ram in area 4 a few yeas ago and now I'm out. I appreciate the privilege I had and I hope others get to have a similar experience.
At the end of the day you as a WY resident have the best odds at drawing a sheep tag of anyone in the US. so don't expect a ton of sympathy from the other 49 states .
Don't feel like the chosen ones, there are about 330 million American citizens who are a U Haul truck away from drawing against you in the resident draw. and I might be one of them in a year or two. maybe I'll adopt your attitude as well we'll see.
So you would be happy to give NR 25% of your sheep tags or are you being the "goober"?
Really not sure how you draw your "conclusions"...thin air I reckon.? Pretty sure no one on here is asking for 100% of tags, or claimed they didn’t fill a tag because of lack of game or too many resident hunters. You can believe that, but it’s not true.
This was started because someone posted an article showing the amount of revenue non residents bring into the state via tags and points. After that the chest puffing started over a 90-10 split proposal and a “task force”. Next someone posted a good article about on average non residents spend more money per season in Wy than residents.
You and buzz may not like non residents, but we do provide revenue to the state at a higher rate than residents through hunting. Sure, a 90-10 split may happen, but your state will never ban non resident hunters. At least not in the immediate future. It’s amazing how butt hurt some people get when a person holds a different opinion, voices concerns they see, or challenges theories that are presented.
It’s squeaky wheel syndrome at its finest. Be loud and claim only you are correct, all while attempting to discredit and belittle others, in an attempt to gain allies. It’s like some bullies in politics trying to push an agenda that simply isn’t popular.
I’ve hunted Wy many times, have spoken to lots of locals both in town and on the mountain, gained free access to private and spent tons of money in the state. The people I’ve come in contact with have been generous, welcoming and friendly. Either I’ve been bamboozled all these years, or you guys are the minority. I’ll continue to spend money in the state and stay in contact with people I know. I’ll also treat anyone I come in contact with, with respect. But, I will not be friends with people who don’t want me around, or are too hard headed to have a civil conversation.
So, can you give us all an update on the bills you've introduced to help us NR's that apply in Oregon to increase our tag allocations?I have said it before a million times and I'll say it again, I am 100% behind any effort to increase the NR allotment in OR. we screw the NR and it's unfair as hell. if Jim gets his way WY will do the same. so spare the BS on on me.
you don't want to talk about the fact you already have fantastic draw odds as a resident do you ? no, you don't . because no matter how good it is you won't rest until you have more.
Whatever. we've had this debate a dozen times and it always ends the same.
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.