Get the damn cows off the Heneries and let the Bison use the cows grazing allotment!Heard there’s been some struggles to get into them on the Henry’s by many. But the guys who know what they are doing have seemed to do decent.
Yep, I'm in the same boat as you. Its pretty un-nerving that they also divided up the Book Cliffs Bison hunts into different dates/hunts. Less bonus tags available for NRs now too for each of these hunts. I have just gotten used to the Utah DWR screwing up everything. Nothing surprises me anymore.The year i turned 14 my old man asked me what i wanted to kill buff sheep moose or goat im really regretting telling him I want to kill a buffalo! I would much rather have sheep points at this point! I would have drew a bull tag this year
"by the odds" if the wonderful UT Fish&game wouldn't have eliminated a bunch of non res hunts thanks $.F.W.! May not be worth hunting by the time I draw and it just doubled in price.
The stupidest most ignorant comment of the year award goes to??? Hey deerslayer go tell the ranchers in that area which includes most of the people who live there, along with economy they're not welcome anymore. Nothing more precious than a city slicker telling the rest of Utah how it should be.Get the damn cows off the Heneries and let the Bison use the cows grazing allotment!
Those ranchers stand up there at the wb meeting and tell the public how many deer, elk, pronghorn, bison, moose and sheep can exist on the landscape, most of which is public land... why should it only be a one way street? A private herd grazing for private benefit on public resources should come 2nd to the state’s wildlife. Not the other way around.The stupidest most ignorant comment of the year award goes to??? Hey deerslayer go tell the ranchers in that area which includes most of the people who live there, along with economy they're not welcome anymore. Nothing more precious than a city slicker telling the rest of Utah how it should be.
Awe, sorry you are bent over my comment! Learn the facts of what the ranchers get in Fed subsidies, the cost of beef isn't dropping either. I really don't give a crap if you think I am a city slicker either. Guess the trophies on my wall are all from a city slicker.The stupidest most ignorant comment of the year award goes to??? Hey deerslayer go tell the ranchers in that area which includes most of the people who live there, along with economy they're not welcome anymore. Nothing more precious than a city slicker telling the rest of Utah how it should be.
I think his family tree has little to no branching it must be the drought or global warming.Those ranchers stand up there at the wb meeting and tell the public how many deer, elk, pronghorn, bison, moose and sheep can exist on the landscape, most of which is public land... why should it only be a one way street? A private herd grazing for private benefit on public resources should come 2nd to the state’s wildlife. Not the other way around.
Your intelligence is astonishing. Should've realized what kind of imbecile I was commenting with.I think his family tree has little to no branching it must be the drought or global warming
Cannonball, You bring up a good point. However, ranchers aren't the reason there are no deer. 50 years ago there were 4-5 times the livestock grazing on the mountain, with even more so that same number higher in deer. Ungulate numbers are dwindling for a bunch of reasons. The biggest reasons are mostly related to winter and predation. Loss of winter habitat, more traffic on roads etc. The only time sportsmen have any reaction to livestock is during the summer and early fall when they're camping on the mountain. The problem isn't the livestock. The problem is the lack of education, understanding, and respect for each other. If the only time I dealt with livestock was when they were in my camp, I would be upset too. I guess that's why I avoid the city. Every time I see a city slicker try to kill my family on the freeway I get mad too. I guess I should shout that all city slickers should be banned from the city, because I hate dealing with them when I go to the city a few times a year. That's the equivalent to deerslayers comment. Sportsmen can complain about livestock or they could educate themselves, and be more respectful. Ranchers too!DBlung, Don't agree with deerslayer, but that being said, the ranchers don't seem to be a friend to the sportsmen. When the deer are gone and the only thing I can do is camp on Federal Land I will be complaining about the cows being in my camp. They don't seem to understand that one day the Lib's and recreationalists will be in control and they may be kicked off of the mountain. If I were them I would like all the friends I could get and not want the whole mountain. I am from rural Utah and believe me a lot of them do think they own all of the mountain ranges.
I am not saying a thing about the rancher's cattle or sheep being bad for the mountain. I really think their animals help the range by keeping the growth down and new rather than overgrown. Mis-management of the Wildlife Life Board and DWR will kill off the deer and I don't elk hunt. The fact remains the ranchers seem to think they are owners of the mountain and they could be more receptive to more deer rather than "kill them off!" That is their attitude.Cannonball, You bring up a good point. However, ranchers aren't the reason there are no deer. 50 years ago there were 4-5 times the livestock grazing on the mountain, with even more so that same number higher in deer. Ungulate numbers are dwindling for a bunch of reasons. The biggest reasons are mostly related to winter and predation. Loss of winter habitat, more traffic on roads etc. The only time sportsmen have any reaction to livestock is during the summer and early fall when they're camping on the mountain. The problem isn't the livestock. The problem is the lack of education, understanding, and respect for each other. If the only time I dealt with livestock was when they were in my camp, I would be upset too. I guess that's why I avoid the city. Every time I see a city slicker try to kill my family on the freeway I get mad too. I guess I should shout that all city slickers should be banned from the city, because I hate dealing with them when I go to the city a few times a year. That's the equivalent to deerslayers comment. Sportsmen can complain about livestock or they could educate themselves, and be more respectful. Ranchers too!
Go talk to the forest service and the DWR, and ask them if grazing hurts or helps. 15 years ago SFW purchased the grazing rights in several areas to boost deer/elk numbers and study areas for wild sheep introduction. With the exception of a few, all those areas were turned back over to grazing. Grazing is good for many reasons. You and a few others keep bringing up government subsidies. I implore you to educate yourself on it. Somewhere sportsmen ingested a narrative by eco crazies about it. All farmers will receive a subsidy once in a while. Usually for unusual acts of nature and catastrophic circumstances. You make it sound like its a every day lazy rancher leeching off government for a living horse crap. Imagine a life where you loose or keep your home, family, everything, if it rains or not. No city slicker can comprehend the stress a rancher goes through. No rancher could possibly make a living without help from the government once in a while. The only times I've ever seen a problem with subsidies, it was with hobby farmers taking advantage of the system.I think it would be really interesting if congress reformed the Taylor Grazing Act and had all the public land grazing permits come up for an open auction every 10 years. Then, whomever wanted to pay the most could get the the permits (a free market solution). If a grazer wanted to purchase a permit and run their cows, they could do that. However, they might have to pay a higher amount for the AUM's rather than the very heavily subsidized federal grazing fees. This would implement a free market solution and end federal subsidies to permitees. Free markets and fewer government subsidies are usually principles that are embraced by conservative rural communities in the west...
At the same time, in a free market situation if the Sierra Club or Western Watersheds purchased the grazing permit they could rest the allotment and save the forage for watershed or wildlife use. If a sportsmen group purchased the permit perhaps they could work with the state and temporarily raise population objectives for bison/elk/deer/antelope etc. for the benefit of sportsmen and the wildlife loving public.
I'd be very interested to see what would happen if this became more of a free market situation without the government subsidies.
Last time I checked, no one forced them to run cattle for a living. They choose to do that. They all know the risks from the start on choosing that career path. Don’t paint the picture that they are the victims of the lifestyle they were forced into. They are victims of their choices that they made.Go talk to the forest service and the DWR, and ask them if grazing hurts or helps. 15 years ago SFW purchased the grazing rights in several areas to boost deer/elk numbers and study areas for wild sheep introduction. With the exception of a few, all those areas were turned back over to grazing. Grazing is good for many reasons. You and a few others keep bringing up government subsidies. I implore you to educate yourself on it. Somewhere sportsmen ingested a narrative by eco crazies about it. All farmers will receive a subsidy once in a while. Usually for unusual acts of nature and catastrophic circumstances. You make it sound like its a every day lazy rancher leeching off government for a living horse crap. Imagine a life where you loose or keep your home, family, everything, if it rains or not. No city slicker can comprehend the stress a rancher goes through. No rancher could possibly make a living without help from the government once in a while. The only times I've ever seen a problem with subsidies, it was with hobby farmers taking advantage of the system.
You are right that well-managed grazing can be beneficial in some areas. When it's done right, it is a really powerful tool for land and habitat management. I spent a lot of time on Deseret Land and Livestock Ranch and saw some amazing things accomplished with well-planned and intensely-managed livestock grazing. I've also seen a lot of public grazing permits that were hammered, overutilized and abused. All that being said, the question of whether that public land grazing should be done by wild bison or elk vs privately owned beef is still an interesting one. A free market solution would allow for different way to decide how that forage would be removed, it might even still be done by ranchers with their livestock.Go talk to the forest service and the DWR, and ask them if grazing hurts or helps. 15 years ago SFW purchased the grazing rights in several areas to boost deer/elk numbers and study areas for wild sheep introduction. With the exception of a few, all those areas were turned back over to grazing. Grazing is good for many reasons. You and a few others keep bringing up government subsidies. I implore you to educate yourself on it. Somewhere sportsmen ingested a narrative by eco crazies about it. All farmers will receive a subsidy once in a while. Usually for unusual acts of nature and catastrophic circumstances. You make it sound like its a every day lazy rancher leeching off government for a living horse crap. Imagine a life where you loose or keep your home, family, everything, if it rains or not. No city slicker can comprehend the stress a rancher goes through. No rancher could possibly make a living without help from the government once in a while. The only times I've ever seen a problem with subsidies, it was with hobby farmers taking advantage of the system.
You can thank SFW, they’ve been buying grazing permits there for awhile and buy them when they come available.Get the damn cows off the Heneries and let the Bison use the cows grazing allotment!
Utah draw deadlines are the same res and non res hunters. Every person rolls the dice on the unit they apply for and tags given that year. That’s just how it goes in Utah. Biologists don’t know tag numbers yet. Some they have no idea and won’t for another couple months.I would be curious if anyone happens to know the biologists or some other contact for the Henry's and Book Cliffs that may have an idea which bison seasons may have 1 nonres bonus pool tag available? It always seems like a toss of the dice each year. Unfortunately tag numbers aren't available until after the nonres application deadline.
It certainly would be nice if Utah had the early nonres draw deadline but allowed nonres hunters the opportunity to change their unit and season options after quotas are announced! I'm pretty sure Utah res tag deadlines are after quotas are posted?
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