Colo res vs nonres quotas

Deercy said:
I smell hypocrite on the more residents than you can count..... and it's not about the land. Enjoy it all you want. This argument is about animals. I got told to leave my favorite elk spot this year. And I did. A group of guys from _ _ _ _ _ were hunting with an outfitter. The outfitter is now a friend. It's a small area really. Not room for two groups. One guy told me" we paid 5000 for this hunt, and I could tell he thought he had bought the right to the area. Paying more, whether it's for an outfitter or a tag, doesn't give anyone any more right. It shouldn't anyway. When I was hunting my deer tag some guys from _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ told me to leave. Screaming. Told me they had applied for x amount of years and I wasn't going to ruin their hunt. Lovely guys. I'm sure they were having the time of their lives. I left. I enjoy my time out. I work all year long for it. There might be some residents who are ugly, no group is immune. My experience is on the nonresident side.
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That sounds like an outfitter problem. If it's legal to be there then be there. That's pretty simple.

My experience is obviously on the Res. side.

I gave up chasing points in Colorado years ago. My buddy has 23 points and counting. He said he's just doing it to see how high it will go. He's wanting to hunt 61. We were 2 points from drawing in 2007 and Colorado changed the rules. He's still 1 1/2 points from drawing today. Fun huh
 
WestTxHunter said:
No I wouldn't. I'm a talker. I've been told to leave by more residents than I can count. They claim it's their land. I smell entitlement all over Res hunters. We want to hunt on land that we help pay for just like you. Why is that selfish?

You don't have what I want. The Federal government pays for something I want to use. I don't care who hunts on our Federal land. If it's legal then get after it.

I've never hunted in someone's backyard in all the years I've hunted Colorado. You act like the tags are evenly split right now. Explain that one to me. You keep talking about protecting animals. Who are you protecting them from? NR hunters?

You would be wrong on that last statement. I don't feel entitled to something that someone else helps pays fo
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At first you were whining that Colorado could not survive without your money. It was all about the numbers. That was proved wrong.

Now it is about National Forrest, and your rights, since you are rich enough to fund the Federal Money that comes to Colorado. You should be whining to ALL of the Western States, not just Colorado.

You can hunt on National Forrest just have to draw a tag.
Maybe you did not think you were hunting in someones back yard, but when that tag is taken by a NR, it stops someone from hunting in their backyard.

Sorry your feeling were hurt when you talked to by another hunter.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
At first you were whining that Colorado could not survive without your money. It was all about the numbers. That was proved wrong.

Now it is about National Forrest, and your rights, since you are rich enough to fund the Federal Money that comes to Colorado. You should be whining to ALL of the Western States, not just Colorado.

You can hunt on National Forrest just have to draw a tag.
Maybe you did not think you were hunting in someones back yard, but when that tag is taken by a NR, it stops someone from hunting in their backyard.

Sorry your feeling were hurt when you talked to by another hunter.
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You're the one whining and throwing a fit about the current system isn't fair. All you have to do is draw a tag. You'll draw one 1 1/2 to 2 times before a NR. And you're still whining. Grow a pair.

Didn't hurt my feelings at all. When you're hunting a 300,000 acre National Forest, you're not in anyone's back yard.
 
I was simply responding to your post that Colorado would not be able to survive without your NR Money. Once that was proven wrong you started all of the other rants.
 
I said NR and Federal money. You refuse to accept that Federal money comes from everyone and not just Colorado residence. Keep swinging I guess.
 
I accept Federal Money, never said anything different, that is the same for all states. That is not going to change. The only thing that changes is NR Tag income.

What is your next irrelevant point?

Pretty Simple.
 
Your point is you feel entitled to land that the money is paid by everyone. Pretty simple. The definition of that line of thinking is Welfare. I don't believe all Res hunters want Welfare. It's real apparent you do. Not much I can do about that.
 
Why is it an outfitter problem? He was a nice dude making his living. Its not non versus resident until you make it that. I didn't. Just some miserable people being miserable. It's my backyard though. I don't own it. Never said I do. There's a lot of people wanting something in my backyard. Come on. Stroll all over it. But according to the rules, you don't have any say in the animals. Make the animals a federally managed product and you have a right. That's where there are a lot of people who live here are hurting. We watch and have no say in it. On a side note. I'm a roofer. I work in conditions that keep most inside. I fell off a roof in slick windy conditions the other day. I'm hobbling around today, and I can argue all day. It allows me an outlet from reality. Keep on! I have a buddy who sells trespass hunts on their ranch. A group from _ _ _ _ _ told him last year that they needed to put up a tall fence around the place and grow some big animals. And I'm curious, you keep talking about how colorado screwed you in 2007. Care to explain?
 
Deercy said:
Why is it an outfitter problem? He was a nice dude making his living. Its not non versus resident until you make it that. I didn't. Just some miserable people being miserable. It's my backyard though. I don't own it. Never said I do. There's a lot of people wanting something in my backyard. Come on. Stroll all over it. But according to the rules, you don't have any say in the animals. Make the animals a federally managed product and you have a right. That's where there are a lot of people who live here are hurting. We watch and have no say in it. On a side note. I'm a roofer. I work in conditions that keep most inside. I fell off a roof in slick windy conditions the other day. I'm hobbling around today, and I can argue all day. It allows me an outlet from reality. Keep on! I have a buddy who sells trespass hunts on their ranch. A group from _ _ _ _ _ told him last year that they needed to put up a tall fence around the place and grow some big animals. And I'm curious, you keep talking about how colorado screwed you in 2007. Care to explain?
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Was it his hunters? Then he's responsible for them. Unless he just took their money and he turned them lose.

The government is paying Colorado to take care of them with our tax dollars. Why is that so hard.

Unit 61 used to a 60/40 unit. I believe we had 6 points apiece. They changed the really good units to 80/20. Like I said, he's at 23 and counting.


Why do you act like everything someone says has to be done. As a business decision, putting up a high fence would make him a lot of money. Hope he doesn't take the advice. I've had people tell me all kinds of off the wall stuff. I just say OK and move on.

Not sure what there is to argue about. Federal money comes from the government. The Federal government gets it money from every tax payer in the country.

Sorry about your back. Hope you get to feeling better.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Your point is you feel entitled to land that the money is paid by everyone. Pretty simple. The definition of that line of thinking is Welfare. I don't believe all Res hunters want Welfare. It's real apparent you do. Not much I can do about that.
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What happened to your argument that the numbers don't lie and we would go broke without you. Why don't you quit paying federal Taxes tell them you don't like how you are treated in Western States?

Why aren't you whining about ALL of the Western States. Why are you picking on Colorado.

Why can't you understand that tags are for all lands not just National Forrest.
 
Deercy said:
Why is it an outfitter problem? He was a nice dude making his living. Its not non versus resident until you make it that. I didn't. Just some miserable people being miserable. It's my backyard though. I don't own it. Never said I do. There's a lot of people wanting something in my backyard. Come on. Stroll all over it. But according to the rules, you don't have any say in the animals. Make the animals a federally managed product and you have a right. That's where there are a lot of people who live here are hurting. We watch and have no say in it. On a side note. I'm a roofer. I work in conditions that keep most inside. I fell off a roof in slick windy conditions the other day. I'm hobbling around today, and I can argue all day. It allows me an outlet from reality. Keep on! I have a buddy who sells trespass hunts on their ranch. A group from _ _ _ _ _ told him last year that they needed to put up a tall fence around the place and grow some big animals. And I'm curious, you keep talking about how colorado screwed you in 2007. Care to explain?
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Sorry to hear about your back. I am just sitting watching the Blizzard, talking to a 4 year old.
 
It still stands. You're in Colorado and I'm talking to you. Pretty simple. I understand it's for all lands. I'm all for you asking the DOW to tell the Federal government they don't want their money and you Res pay for all the expenses. Works for me.
 
WestTxHunter said:
It still stands. You're in Colorado and I'm talking to you. Pretty simple. I understand it's for all lands. I'm all for you asking the DOW to tell the Federal government they don't want their money and you Res pay for all the expenses. Works for me.
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That doesn't even make any sense! Take a deep breath and think before you type.

1) You are not happy with all Western States because you are a taxpayer and not treated fairly.
2) You don't understand that tags are for all lands in the West not just National Forrest.
3) you don't like Colorado because they updated point % base on demand as stated in the Regs. when you started applying.
4) You like to keep changing your point based on how the discussion is going
5) You can't answer a direct question
6) Don't let facts get in the way
 
You just enjoy the results of how Texas uses your slice of the fed excise tax. I guess I should start paying attention to how responsible the other states are to me because of how important I am to them. Don't worry about me. I don't care. I wish there was a reason for me to. Those high fence hunts don't really tempt me. They can use it all for you. Be greedy! It's cool. I'll slink [or hobble] off and let you. And why just comment here? Ease over to Wyoming. You won't get anything else done with all the time you spend.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I think Res should have some rights that NR don't have. Never said different. I don't understand how you don't see how increasing Res tags decreases the opportunity for NR on FEDERAL land. You're the one claiming the CDOW doesn't need Federal money. Not me.

Never hunted high fence. We don't have the luxury of having millions of acres of Federal land. The Federal money (money paid by all US tax payers) subsidises your hunting. Leases cost thousands of dollars you don't have to pay because your hunting is subsided.

OK All BLM (State Land) in CO is 100% Res tags. Not subsided by Federal or NR funds. Y'all pay whatever the DOW determines it takes to pay for it.

NF Land: tags are 100% draw on 50/50 basis. All tags are the same price.

Private Land tags: All the same price to whoever wants to pony up and pay.

That should make you very happy. Correct
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BLM is federal land.
 
20230215_152748.jpg
 
I finally had to chase these girls out after they got in a fight to sit on my lap. I love my pups. The old girl in the back is 8. She's getting up slow in the morning any more. The pup's 8 months. She's a sweet brat. The old girl is the best I've ever hunted with. Her discipline is dropping off because I don't care. She's earned the right to point a mouse every now and then.
 
Don't like high fences at all. Keep trying.

Here's the numbers:

Total Income for Wildlife Department FY 21 22 $198,000,000
License and Permits make up 69% of that income x 69%
= $ 136,620,000
NR % of total Licenses & Permits per Article using FY 2019-21 numbers 65.8%
= $ 89,895,960
$198,000,000 - $89,895,960 = $108,104,040 Total Income - NR $
$161,000,000 Total Expenses $52,895,960 Short Fall in Revenue

There You Go

DOW numbers are from the Colorado DOW web page.
 
But no elk.....at least not enough for me. And how about new mexico? My hunt I've been trying for has less than 2 percent draw success for unguided nonresidents! That's a rough statistical justification. I'm pissed!
 
Deercy said:
But no elk.....at least not enough for me. And how about new mexico? My hunt I've been trying for has less than 2 percent draw success for unguided nonresidents! That's a rough statistical justification. I'm pissed!
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I'm trying NM thru an outfitter. 7 years and no luck
 
WestTxHunter said:
Don't like high fences at all. Keep trying.

Here's the numbers:

Total Income for Wildlife Department FY 21 22 $198,000,000
License and Permits make up 69% of that income x 69%
= $ 136,620,000
NR % of total Licenses & Permits per Article using FY 2019-21 numbers 65.8%
= $ 89,895,960
$198,000,000 - $89,895,960 = $108,104,040 Total Income - NR $
$161,000,000 Total Expenses $52,895,960 Short Fall in Revenue

There You Go

DOW numbers are from the Colorado DOW web page.
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Colorado Wildlife Expenditures​

Fiscal Year 2021-22 Total Wildlife Expenditures: $161 Million


TaskColorado Wildlife Expenditures
Customer Service5
Environment & Wildlife Education2
Fishing Recreation9
Habitat Management21
Hunting Recreation12
Law Enforcement4
Licensing, Registrations, Policy & Regulations7
Organizational Support26
Payments to Other Agencies6
Public Information2
Species Conservation6


Customer Service 5%


Environment &
Wildlife Education 2%


Fishing Recreation 9%


Habitat Management 21%


Hunting Recreation 12%


Law Enforcement 4%


Licensing, Registrations,
Policy & Regulations 7%


Organizational Support 26%


Payments to Other Agencies 6%


Public Information 2%


Species Conservation 6%



I agree with your income but only showing $161 Million in expenses

Simple Math
$198,000,000 Income
$161,000,000 Expenses
$37,000,000 Surplus

cpw.state.co.us

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...
cpw.state.co.us

 
RRCowboyStar said:

Colorado Wildlife Expenditures​

Fiscal Year 2021-22 Total Wildlife Expenditures: $161 Million


TaskColorado Wildlife Expenditures
Customer Service5
Environment & Wildlife Education2
Fishing Recreation9
Habitat Management21
Hunting Recreation12
Law Enforcement4
Licensing, Registrations, Policy & Regulations7
Organizational Support26
Payments to Other Agencies6
Public Information2
Species Conservation6


Customer Service 5%


Environment &
Wildlife Education 2%


Fishing Recreation 9%


Habitat Management 21%


Hunting Recreation 12%


Law Enforcement 4%


Licensing, Registrations,
Policy & Regulations 7%


Organizational Support 26%


Payments to Other Agencies 6%


Public Information 2%


Species Conservation 6%



I agree with your income but only showing $161 Million in expenses

Simple Math
$198,000,000 Income
$161,000,000 Expenses
$37,000,000 Surplus

cpw.state.co.us

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

Colorado Parks and Wildlife is a nationally recognized leader in conservation, outdoor recreation and wildlife management. The agency manages 42 state parks, all of Colorado's wildlife, more than 300 state wildlife areas and a host of recreational programs. CPW issues hunting and fishing...
cpw.state.co.us

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I took the numbers right off the DOW web page. That includes $89M in NR income. What I presented was right off their page. You have a $53M shortfall without NR hunters. Pretty simple.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Don't like high fences at all. Keep trying.

Here's the numbers:

Total Income for Wildlife Department FY 21 22 $198,000,000
License and Permits make up 69% of that income x 69%
= $ 136,620,000
NR % of total Licenses & Permits per Article using FY 2019-21 numbers 65.8%
= $ 89,895,960
$198,000,000 - $89,895,960 = $108,104,040 Total Income - NR $
$161,000,000 Total Expenses $52,895,960 Short Fall in Revenue

There You Go

DOW numbers are from the Colorado DOW web page.
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I believe that would be to eliminate NR licenses rather than the suggested 80/20.

The hole gets a lot smaller, and a modest resident price increase would probably be overwhelmingly supported.

It’s still pretty cheap for a resident, when you can get a tag ;)
 
WestTxHunter said:
I took the numbers right off the DOW web page. That includes $89M in NR income. What I presented was right off their page. You have a $53M shortfall without NR hunters. Pretty simple.
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How much of the NR income is fishing license, camping at state parks vs hunting tags? Would like to see what the break down is there. The “ya gotta pay more game” can work both ways when the state cuts NR tags in half they can double the cost and make up for it… , I bet flat landers still fight each other to come out every year.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I took the numbers right off the DOW web page. That includes $89M in NR income. What I presented was right off their page. You have a $53M shortfall without NR hunters. Pretty simple.
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Not trying to fight, not trying to remove all of the NR hunters. Just want to be inline with all other Western States. I would be happy with 80/20 across the board. I would be happy to pay to make up the difference.
 
The other thing that some fail to consider is the possible perception that CPW is a bloated agency that can engage in extravagant indulgences like predator reintroduction and equity grants for bike paths and skate parks, all because they are drunk on the NR’s money.

If you are the kind of person who dislikes bloated government and liberal spending policies, you might not miss that NR dough.
 
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HntHrdr said:
How much of the NR income is fishing license, camping at state parks vs hunting tags? Would like to see what the break down is there. The “ya gotta pay more game” can work both ways when the state cuts NR tags in half they can double the cost and make up for it… , I bet flat landers still fight each other to come out every year.
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It didn't break it out. It's on the DOW web page. At $1,500.00 a tag. Don't think so. But you're more than welcome to run it by the DOW. I'm sure they would take it under consideration.
 
Bluehair said:
The other thing that some fail to consider is the possible perception that CPW is a bloated agency that can engage in extravagant indulgences like predator reintroduction and equity grants for bike paths and skate parks, all because they are drunk on the NR’s money.

If you are the kind of person who dislikes bloated government and liberal spending policies, you might not miss that NR dough.
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Most government agencies are. No argument here.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Not trying to fight, not trying to remove all of the NR hunters. Just want to be inline with all other Western States. I would be happy with 80/20 across the board. I would be happy to pay to make up the difference.
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Maybe. If you want to go that route then you'll have to revamp the tag system to match what the other States are doing. By all means, I'd run it by the DOW. It couldn't hurt. Worse case scenario is Res. tags thriple or quadruple. I'm sure that's a change you could live with.
 
That is the point, to be the same as other Western States. If you do a little Googlinging, I would be happy to pay resident rates the same as AZ, Utah, Wyoming and New Mexico.
I going to mozzey down to the CPW, Colorado does not have a DOW anymore. and tell that that we can change cause Tex said so.

Thanks
 
RRCowboyStar said:
That is the point, to be the same as other Western States. If you do a little Googlinging, I would be happy to pay resident rates the same as AZ, Utah, Wyoming and New Mexico.
I going to mozzey down to the CPW, Colorado does not have a DOW anymore. and tell that that we can change cause Tex said so.

Thanks
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You know the numbers. You're just running around in circles trying to change to outcome. I proved you wrong by providing proof.

What's the DOW budget in those States?

You go look it up and get back to me. You're the one trying to change what's there now. State your case with proof that it works.

If you can't then you're just whining to whine.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Sorry, I am done. I agreed with you that I would pay more. All the Western States are going broke and can't survive without you.

You are the winner!!!
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I guess. You wanted proof and I provided it. As the current system sets Colorado has to have NR's. What you do with that info is up to you.

Sounds like you need to research what's going on in every Western State and analyze it. Put together a package and present it to the DOW. You're pretty passionate about wanting your plan implemented. Go for it.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Sorry, I am done. I agreed with you that I would pay more. All the Western States are going broke and can't survive without you.

You are the winner!!!
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Yep Co is a very poor backwoods state, I live in a mud hut worth 13 dollars, if it wasn’t for NR hunters I would not know how to read or speak English. The NR hunters brought us out of the Stone Age. I can’t wait till next hunting season maybe this year they will leave some more of their wealth so I can finally have indoor plumbing… NR hunters are our only form of income in Co… ?
 
HntHrdr said:
Yep Co is a very poor backwoods state, I live in a mud hut worth 13 dollars, if it wasn’t for NR hunters I would not know how to read or speak English. The NR hunters brought us out of the Stone Age. I can’t wait till next hunting season maybe this year they will leave some more of their wealth so I can finally have indoor plumbing… NR hunters are our only form of income in Co… ?
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Indoor plumbing is only a dream.
 
HntHrdr said:
Yep Co is a very poor backwoods state, I live in a mud hut worth 13 dollars, if it wasn’t for NR hunters I would not know how to read or speak English. The NR hunters brought us out of the Stone Age. I can’t wait till next hunting season maybe this year they will leave some more of their wealth so I can finally have indoor plumbing… NR hunters are our only form of income in Co… ?
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That's pretty sad. We pay our fair share to hunt in Colorado. OH THE HUMANITY.

You got a good deal on the hut. Indoor plumbing is overrated. Only form of income is a lie. You have your Pot industry going strong. Keep your chin up. It will get better.
 
Keep it quite, nobody knows but, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico and Nevada are all going broke. They will have to shut their doors because they only let 10% NR hunt.
 
WestTxHunter said:
That's pretty sad. We pay our fair share to hunt in Colorado. OH THE HUMANITY.

You got a good deal on the hut. Indoor plumbing is overrated. Only form of income is a lie. You have your Pot industry going strong. Keep your chin up. It will get better.
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If only we had the beauty of west Texas to look at every day… when I get hooked on meth and upgrade to a trailer maybe I can move there too, at least you still have all that oil money for another few decades to keep the meth habits up and come hunt in Co every year on our super duper expensive tags… man that’s gotta be tough to lay down that much dough to come shoot at elk herds from 1000 yards
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Keep it quite, nobody knows but, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico and Nevada are all going broke. They will have to shut their doors because they only let 10% NR hunt.
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Good point. Show the numbers why their system works. Would be interesting to see. Let me know when you get it put together.
 
Just looked at Texas Parks and Wildlife Budget. 15.8% comes from the Federal Government! But the don't have any Federal Land that I can Hunt! NOT FAIR!
 
HntHrdr said:
If only we had the beauty of west Texas to look at every day… when I get hooked on meth and upgrade to a trailer maybe I can move there too, at least you still have all that oil money for another few decades to keep the meth habits up and come hunt in Co every year on our super duper expensive tags… man that’s gotta be tough to lay down that much dough to come shoot at elk herds from 1000 yards
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I'd keep the hut. Oil money is good. Not sure your definition of super duper.

Longest shot has been 157 yards. If you don't have running water in the hut, you might go the creek and at least clean up before you hunt if 1,000 yards is as close as you can get. Scent killer is a great option as well.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I'd keep the hut. Oil money is good. Not sure your definition of super duper.

Longest shot has been 157 yards. If you don't have running water in the hut, you might go the creek and at least clean up before you hunt if 1,000 yards is as close as you can get. Scent killer is a great option as well.
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You know how I know your from Tejas… you actually think scent killer works hahaha ? I’ve got some ocean front property in Colorado to go with a 1500 dollar elk tag and all the real tree camo you can handle. I’ll even throw in some elk piss for free.
 
HntHrdr said:
You know how I know your from Tejas… you actually think scent killer works hahaha ? I’ve got some ocean front property in Colorado to go with a 1500 dollar elk tag and all the real tree camo you can handle. I’ll even throw in some elk piss for free.
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If your living in a hut, I'm not sure anyone would consider you an authority on scent. Just sayin
 
WestTxHunter said:
If your living in a hut, I'm not sure anyone would consider you an authority on scent. Just sayin
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You’re right, better go beg another NR hunter stops by and leaves some spare change so I can go buy an opinion on stuff I know nothing about…. Oh wait you mean like all the NR that stop in for 8 days to my home state and know exactly what we need and don’t need how to manage seasons, herds, and tag allocations… hmmmm pot meet kettle ;)
 
HntHrdr said:
You’re right, better go beg another NR hunter stops by and leaves some spare change so I can go buy an opinion on stuff I know nothing about…. Oh wait you mean like all the NR that stop in for 8 days to my home state and know exactly what we need and don’t need how to manage seasons, herds, and tag allocations… hmmmm pot meet kettle ;)
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Begging's a bad look. I'll leave the management of resources to the people at the DOW. I guess you would rather shutdown all the ski resorts to NR as well. Bold strategy

It seems your beef is with the DOW.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Begging's a bad look. I'll leave the management of resources to the people at the DOW. I guess you would rather shutdown all the ski resorts to NR as well. Bold strategy

It seems your beef is with the DOW.
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Nah skiing is where the money is at pardner. My beef is when visitors come in and try telling us how to run game management and tag allocations in my state. Don’t see anyone coming down to TX from Co and saying we need to regulate hog hunting or white tail hunting or shooting fenced in animals. Do what you want down there, keep your nose out of my business please and thank you. If it’s such a big deal to hunt here then like I said, belly up and move on in. About 3 million people have in the last 12 years, what’s one more… which is exactly why more Coloradans want to enjoy more of our home state. We don’t have the room or numbers to be the defacto western playground anymore
 
HntHrdr said:
Nah skiing is where the money is at pardner. My beef is when visitors come in and try telling us how to run game management and tag allocations in my state. Don’t see anyone coming down to TX from Co and saying we need to regulate hog hunting or white tail hunting or shooting fenced in animals. Do what you want down there, keep your nose out of my business please and thank you. If it’s such a big deal to hunt here then like I said, belly up and move on in. About 3 million people have in the last 12 years, what’s one more… which is exactly why more Coloradans want to enjoy more of our home state. We don’t have the room or numbers to be the defacto western playground anymore
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Who is telling you how to run your business? I would look into a plan to buy up all the Federal Land and then put up a no trespassing sign if I were you. Once again, research the numbers on whatever your plan is and present it to the DOW. They believe they're managing it properly. You disagree. That's what's great about America. You have a voice.

Since it's almost totally private in Texas we manage our own. We're pretty much the benchmark on how to manage wildlife in the US.

The locals I've talk to are pretty fed up with California's moving in. It's funny a lot of you Colorado people think us Texans all own oil wells and are rich. Most of us are just working stiffs trying stay ahead of the curve.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Who is telling you how to run your business? I would look into a plan to buy up all the Federal Land and then put up a no trespassing sign if I were you. Once again, research the numbers on whatever your plan is and present it to the DOW. They believe they're managing it properly. You disagree. That's what's great about America. You have a voice.

Since it's almost totally private in Texas we manage our own. We're pretty much the benchmark on how to manage wildlife in the US.

The locals I've talk to are pretty fed up with California's moving in. It's funny a lot of you Colorado people think us Texans all own oil wells and are rich. Most of us are just working stiffs trying stay ahead of the curve.
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West I like you, but you change your story too much. No one is saying everyone and their brother can’t use federal land. The rub comes in when folks say, I live in X state and am special and should have access to hunt your state whenever I want, we say come fish and hunt and have fun but don’t get butt hurt when you have to wait 2-3 years to hunt instead of every year.

The comment on how Tx is the benchmark on wildlife management is a joke. Very little opportunity unless you have a lease or own, deer are grown and “ named” often and don’t even get me started on those silly exotic ranches. Uncle Sammy paid for my schooling at Baylor ;) I lived under great game management for years and didn’t have money or connections so I didn’t get to hunt

We are super fed up with “extreme liberals of all flavors moving in” I could care less where you are from, Co probably won’t even have hunting in 20 years at all his rate. We will almost certainly lose most predator hunting in a year or so when the cat ladies get lion and bobcat hunting on the ballot, im sure bear and coyote won’t be far behind
 
WestTxHunter said:
Who is telling you how to run your business? I would look into a plan to buy up all the Federal Land and then put up a no trespassing sign if I were you. Once again, research the numbers on whatever your plan is and present it to the DOW. They believe they're managing it properly. You disagree. That's what's great about America. You have a voice.

Since it's almost totally private in Texas we manage our own. We're pretty much the benchmark on how to manage wildlife in the US.

The locals I've talk to are pretty fed up with California's moving in. It's funny a lot of you Colorado people think us Texans all own oil wells and are rich. Most of us are just working stiffs trying stay ahead of the curve.
Click to expand...
Since your Great State of Texas is all private, give us the $70 mil from the Federal Government that Texas Game and Fish receives.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Since your Great State of Texas is all private, give us the $70 mil from the Federal Government that Texas Game and Fish receives.
Click to expand...
Haven't changed my story at all. You just apparently don't like.

You can't read or what. I said mostly private which is true. We have 2.9M acres of Federal and y'all have 24M acres.

It's not Texas's fault y'all keep voting for Liberals. That's a you problem.

You calling the management of wildlife in Texas a joke tells me you know nothing about wildlife management. The reason it's so damn good is because it's private. It's also expensive.

There's nothing preventing you and some friends going to together and buying land and managing it however you want too.

You want what private management has to offer but you want someone else to pay for it. Everyone who helps pay for something has a say.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Haven't changed my story at all. You just apparently don't like.

You can't read or what. I said mostly private which is true. We have 2.9M acres of Federal and y'all have 24M acres.

It's not Texas's fault y'all keep voting for Liberals. That's a you problem.

You calling the management of wildlife in Texas a joke tells me you know nothing about wildlife management. The reason it's so damn good is because it's private. It's also expensive.

There's nothing preventing you and some friends going to together and buying land and managing it however you want too.

You want what private management has to offer but you want someone else to pay for it. Everyone who helps pay for something has a say.
Click to expand...
I have access to private in Co,difference is we don’t pen up animals and pretend it’s awesome hunting. Have access to tons of private in Az, they don’t issue land owner tags so should my family down there get a reimbursed by the feds or state for letting those pesky deer and javelina live all over their land without being able to manage them how they want? Since private land management is the “best”. I can tell you don’t understand western hunting much, you think the answer is to buy land make it like one of those little whitetail properties, that’s not how most elk and mule deer work, we are talking animals that migrate 10s to hundreds of miles annually can’t buy 20 acres put a pond in and expect them to show up.
 
HntHrdr said:
I have access to private in Co,difference is we don’t pen up animals and pretend it’s awesome hunting. Have access to tons of private in Az, they don’t issue land owner tags so should my family down there get a reimbursed by the feds or state for letting those pesky deer and javelina live all over their land without being able to manage them how they want? Since private land management is the “best”. I can tell you don’t understand western hunting much, you think the answer is to buy land make it like one of those little whitetail properties, that’s not how most elk and mule deer work, we are talking animals that migrate 10s to hundreds of miles annually can’t buy 20 acres put a pond in and expect them to show up.
Click to expand...
You really are trying to put down Texas. Not my fault you guys are letting Liberals take over. There's High Fence in Texas but most is free range hunting. Sorry to disappoint you.

I have zero idea about how Arizona handles private land. Now you moved the goalpost. Now it's Western hunting. I absolutely understand Western Hunting. So you're saying there's zero private land for hunting in the Western States. That's news to me. It's also no one's fault you can't afford more than 20 acres. In Texas it's not considered a real ranch until you get to the 3,000 acres or so. Opinions vary. With LO voucher's it would seem buying land would be a pretty way to go.

It still boils down to if you want to control your hunting then private is the way to go. Asking everyone else to pay for your hunting spot is the very definition of entitlement Liberal thinking.
 
Tex, you have done nothing but change stories, It was about how Colorado can't survive without your money. Every Western State has proved you wrong by thriving while only allowing 10% NR Hunting.
You said we get Federal money so you have rights to hunt all of it.
All Western States say you are wrong.

I would be happy with allowing a generous 20% NR.
Your Numbers proved that would work.

As every Texan who moves/comes to Colorado, they tell you how great Texas is but they keep coming to Colorado. Kinda puzzling?

Every Texan that moves/comes to Colorado wants to know why we don't have corn feeders every 5 acres like the great state of Texas does?
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Tex, you have done nothing but change stories, It was about how Colorado can't survive without your money. Every Western State has proved you wrong by thriving while only allowing 10% NR Hunting.
You said we get Federal money so you have rights to hunt all of it.
All Western States say you are wrong.

I would be happy with allowing a generous 20% NR.
Your Numbers proved that would work.

As every Texan who moves/comes to Colorado, they tell you how great Texas is but they keep coming to Colorado. Kinda puzzling?

Every Texan that moves/comes to Colorado wants to know why we don't have corn feeders every 5 acres like the great state of Texas does?
Click to expand...
Nope Story is the same. You just don't like it. I don't know if that proves it or not. Put the numbers together and let's take a look.

Texas is a great State. We're not worrying about losing our guns. We come to visit. If that puzzles you then I'm sorry you're easily confused.

We don't have feeders every 5 acres. We also don't have 24M acres of Federal land to hunt on. We've discussed this and you don't like the answer. It is what it is.

Once again, put the numbers together and lets take a look. I really would like to see them.
 
It’s just different RRC when their version of management is actually baiting and illegal in Co… it’s confusing to them. I guess ole west has no clue how much a house left alone land is in Co. 3000 acres would run you 5-7million in western parts of the state
 
HntHrdr said:
It’s just different RRC when their version of management is actually baiting and illegal in Co… it’s confusing to them. I guess ole west has no clue how much a house left alone land is in Co. 3000 acres would run you 5-7million in western parts of the state
Click to expand...
I understand every bit of it. Not my fault you can't afford it. I can't afford it either but I'm not the one bitching.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I understand every bit of it. Not my fault you can't afford it. I can't afford it either but I'm not the one bitching.
Click to expand...
Wait you’re not bitching about price or tags or not being able to hunt Co every year when tag allocation changes? What are we talking about then West?
 
WestTxHunter said:
I understand every bit of it. Not my fault you can't afford it. I can't afford it either but I'm not the one bitching.
Click to expand...
You keep talking about the numbers, all you did was prove that they do work for a 80/20 split.

THE NUMBERS WORK FOR ALLL WESTERN STATES!! at 90/10
Why are you arguing with yourself?
 
HntHrdr said:
Wait you’re not bitching about price or tags or not being able to hunt Co every year when tag allocation changes? What are we talking about then West?
Click to expand...
HntHrdr said:
Wait you’re not bitching about price or tags or not being able to hunt Co every year when tag allocation changes? What are we talking about then West?
Click to expand...
I'm not bitching because I can't afford private land. You're on your own island. If I'm paying for something then yes I want access to it. Show the numbers at 80/20 and 90/10. I'd really like to see them. Evidently you just want to *****.

I said y'all needed our money. You said bullshit. I went to your DOW wed site and pulled the numbers showing as it stands now you need NR hunters. That's just a fact.

You would rather whine about how things are than look at the real numbers. Quit whining and show me how your plan works.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I'm not bitching because I can't afford private land. You're on your own island. If I'm paying for something then yes I want access to it. Show the numbers at 80/20 and 90/10. I'd really like to see them. Evidently you just want to *****.

I said y'all needed our money. You said bullshit. I went to your DOW wed site and pulled the numbers showing as it stands now you need NR hunters. That's just a fact.

You would rather whine about how things are than look at the real numbers. Quit whining and show me how your plan works.
Click to expand...
You do realize all the high point units are already 80/20 don't you? Same with Sheep, Goat, and Moose. Your argument isn't valid because nobody said nonresidents were getting cut off completely. Your federal land argument isn't valid also because the state manages the wildlife no matter where it resides.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
You do realize all the high point units are already 80/20 don't you? Same with Sheep, Goat, and Moose. Your argument isn't valid because nobody said nonresidents were getting cut off completely. Your federal land argument isn't valid also because the state manages the wildlife no matter where it resides.
Click to expand...
Yes I do as I said several post ago. I was told Colorado didn't need NR. As it sets now I proved you do.

It's all valid. As I also said earlier. Res "we own the animals" me "who do I send the grazing rights bill to".

My argument is totally valid until someone of you whining about NR's shows the numbers on 80/20 and 90/10 and how it will work.

Y'all made a request and I answered it with proof from YOUR OWN WEB SITE.

Once again, quit whining and show me the numbers. I'd love to see them.
 
They already ran the math at several meetings across the state. At an 80/20 res non res split statewide I believe they said 1,000 non resident elk tag and a 150 resident elk tag they'd be where they are at now budget wise
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
They already ran the math at several meetings across the state. At an 80/20 res non res split statewide I believe they said 1,000 non resident elk tag and a 150 resident elk tag they'd be where they are at now budget wise
Click to expand...
Show me the numbers. That's all I've ask.

Reread this. Are talking tag price? Are you talking 80/20 State wide?
 
Last edited:
WestTxHunter said:
Don't like high fences at all. Keep trying.

Here's the numbers:

Total Income for Wildlife Department FY 21 22 $198,000,000
License and Permits make up 69% of that income x 69%
= $ 136,620,000
NR % of total Licenses & Permits per Article using FY 2019-21 numbers 65.8%
= $ 89,895,960
$198,000,000 - $89,895,960 = $108,104,040 Total Income - NR $
$161,000,000 Total Expenses $52,895,960 Short Fall in Revenue

There You Go

DOW numbers are from the Colorado DOW web page.
Click to expand...
Tex We will try it again. put your thinking cap on and try and sit still.

NR License will decrease by 12% = $89,895,960 - 12% = $70,108,444 Follow so far?

$198,000,000 Budget
$161,000,000 Expenses
$37,000,000 Surplus
-$19,787,516 lost Revenue
=$17,212,484 Surplus
These are you numbers Tex.

What is your next argument so I can be prepared.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
They already ran the math at several meetings across the state. At an 80/20 res non res split statewide I believe they said 1,000 non resident elk tag and a 150 resident elk tag they'd be where they are at now budget wise
Click to expand...
That is assuming people would pay that amount for the tags, that is a big assumption with the current OTC quality. I surely wouldn't add a $1000 OTC elk tag to a mule deer hunt.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I'm not bitching because I can't afford private land. You're on your own island. If I'm paying for something then yes I want access to it. Show the numbers at 80/20 and 90/10. I'd really like to see them. Evidently you just want to *****.

I said y'all needed our money. You said bullshit. I went to your DOW wed site and pulled the numbers showing as it stands now you need NR hunters. That's just a fact.

You would rather whine about how things are than look at the real numbers. Quit whining and show me how your plan works.
Click to expand...
Old Tex my dude… quit acting like every tax dollar you spend is only for management of federal lands. Heck I wish I could pick where my families tax dollars go, and like I said if you want to act like those that pay more taxes have more right let’s go there buddy. I can damn near guarantee that the tab my family pays to the feds every year would put us towards the front of that line paying 37% federal then state taxes on top, not to mention payroll/ SSI/ and all the other BS that comes with owning a company. So don’t be such a martyr since you pay taxes but don’t get to hunt anywhere you want out west we are all in the same boat. Hell I wish Texas would succeed from the union sometimes, save us all little grief! Haha
 
nripepi said:
That is assuming people would pay that amount for the tags, that is a big assumption with the current OTC quality. I surely wouldn't add a $1000 OTC elk tag to a mule deer hunt.
Click to expand...
That is true, but the thinking was that quality would increase fairly quickly with the elimination of OTC and the bulls actually being able to get some age on them.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Tex We will try it again. put your thinking cap on and try and sit still.

NR License will decrease by 12% = $89,895,960 - 12% = $70,108,444 Follow so far?

$198,000,000 Budget
$161,000,000 Expenses
$37,000,000 Surplus
-$19,787,516 lost Revenue
=$17,212,484 Surplus
These are you numbers Tex.

What is your next argument so I can be prepared.
Click to expand...
Where did you come up with 12% hippy?

At 80/20 and 90/10, what are your numbers?
Res NR tag numbers? Res NR tag price?
 
HntHrdr said:
Old Tex my dude… quit acting like every tax dollar you spend is only for management of federal lands. Heck I wish I could pick where my families tax dollars go, and like I said if you want to act like those that pay more taxes have more right let’s go there buddy. I can damn near guarantee that the tab my family pays to the feds every year would put us towards the front of that line paying 37% federal then state taxes on top, not to mention payroll/ SSI/ and all the other BS that comes with owning a company. So don’t be such a martyr since you pay taxes but don’t get to hunt anywhere you want out west we are all in the same boat. Hell I wish Texas would succeed from the union sometimes, save us all little grief! Haha
Click to expand...
Quit acting like the smartest guy in the room. Everyone including tree huggers contributes to the Federal fund (tax dollars). If my tax dollars are going to that fund I can expect to hunt if I want to under the State guidelines.

Not sure what line your in but the oh I can guarantee I make more money that you is pretty sad. I do well. I'll leave it at that.

We did a study on that in a history class.. Texas is one of about 3 or 4 States that could pull it off. We have it all.

Don't be jealous. It's a bad look.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Quit acting like the smartest guy in the room. Everyone including tree huggers contributes to the Federal fund (tax dollars). If my tax dollars are going to that fund I can expect to hunt if I want to under the State guidelines.

Not sure what line your in but the oh I can guarantee I make more money that you is pretty sad. I do well. I'll leave it at that.

We did a study on that in a history class.. Texas is one of about 3 or 4 States that could pull it off. We have it all.

Don't be jealous. It's a bad look.
Click to expand...
I’m definitely not the smartest guy in the room Tex.

I bet you make more money than me Tex, I’m a lowly fireman… but my wife, probably has you by a bit bub, which is why I said family tax returns ;) Goodness we get it already Tejas is soooo great, which is why so many of you move up here haha ?

Literally no one is saying you can’t hunt on federal land under state guidance, we are just saying state guidance is about to give more tags to residents of said state which is great if you live in a western state. If you are sad, just take some of your big stacks dollars ( minus the federal taxes of course, which I hate how much we are taxed, I bet we can agree on that) and come buy a voucher, or get in the points game and wait your turn
 
HntHrdr said:
I’m definitely not the smartest guy in the room Tex.

I bet you make more money than me Tex, I’m a lowly fireman… but my wife, probably has you by a bit bub, which is why I said family tax returns ;) Goodness we get it already Tejas is soooo great, which is why so many of you move up here haha ?

Literally no one is saying you can’t hunt on federal land under state guidance, we are just saying state guidance is about to give more tags to residents of said state which is great if you live in a western state. If you are sad, just take some of your big stacks dollars ( minus the federal taxes of course, which I hate how much we are taxed, I bet we can agree on that) and come buy a voucher, or get in the points game and wait your turn
Click to expand...
If they change the rules then they are what they are hippy. The tag game is way different in Colorado than most States. Like I said, my buddy is 23 and counting. I go to Colorado because it's reasonable. I damn sure don't go for quality. The points game sucks ass. If they go to a different system, I'll decide at that time if it's worth it. Pretty easy.

In Arizona, a tag can be had every 4 or 5 years in a quality unit (not NW corner).


The few people I know that moved up there went because they didn't like being around conservatives. They like mountains and Liberals. Y'all have that in spades. Better they vote that way in your neck of the woods than down here.

You brought up the Texas thing. I just stated we could pull it off. Not sure why you're so mad about Texas. To each his own.

As someone stated earlier, those liberals moving in are coming for your rights. If you get your way y'all will be standing on an island looking around wondering what happened. If we can't hunt without taking out a loan, NR won't care. Sad to say.
 
Moved the finish line again.
Do you now agree that the numbers are fact?

If you can draw a tag in AZ every 4 or 5 years you are my hero.
 
As stated several times by myself and others. That is the anticipated reduction in NR Hunters. From current Quotas to an 80%/20% split.

I don't know how to make it anymore clear.

Next Finish line please.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
What nonresident is drawing an Arizona bull tag every 4 years?
Click to expand...
We'll see. The numbers say you should get drawn every 3 to 5 years in the middle units. I'm at 3 this year. I guess I'll see in the next year or so. It can't be worse than waiting 20 to 30 years for a quality unit in Colorado. My daughter and her husband ask me about a quality unit in Colorado. I showed them the numbers and they said it would be a waste of their time. If I understand the numbers right, you have a chance for NW AZ before you have a chance in any of the premium units in Colorado. There's a statistical chance every year to get drawn in AZ where there's zero chance in CO.

I have an outfitter doing the PW. As I said We'll see
 
RRCowboyStar said:
As stated several times by myself and others. That is the anticipated reduction in NR Hunters. From current Quotas to an 80%/20% split.

I don't know how to make it anymore clear.

Next Finish line please.
Click to expand...
I can't make it any clearer. Current quotas from (insert current number and cost) to an 80%20% split (insert number and cost).

Damn
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
What nonresident is drawing an Arizona bull tag every 4 years?
Click to expand...
Maybe he is talking middle of the road buck tag? Definitely not getting a quality elk tag or a quality buck tag in AZ every 4-5 years as NR, more like double those numbers, which is fine, I think he can’t handle that the purpose of this thread is that’s is okay for residents to have more opportunities in their home state, hell that is all any of us want
 
HntHrdr said:
Maybe he is talking a buck tag? Definitely not getting a quality elk tag in AZ every 4-5 years as NR, more like double those numbers, which is fine, I think he can’t handle that the purpose of this thread is that’s is okay for residents to have more opportunities in their home state, hell that is all any of us want
Click to expand...
I agree. You already have those but said it's not enough. Everybody has an opinion.

NW corner is 10 to 12 years on average and a statistical chance ever draw. Still less than half of Colorado for a far inferior animal.
 
Your not drawing a premium Arizona elk tag in 10 years just like your not drawing a strip deer tag in your lifetime if your just building deer points
 

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