This will never happen...
cute little thing……..View attachment 104591HB0469
le.utah.gov
We already are hunting year around in Idaho with the never ending seasons
Not super wild about legislators setting "bag limits".
Would prefer biologists do that
It says removed from management and protection from udwr and hunted and trapped without regulation
Did this bill set a bag limit? All I really see this doing in the cougar realm is eliminating the cougar permit and doing away with the draw.
Making your small game license valid to hunt cougars does not automatically mean you’ll get to kill as many as you want 365 days a year. My small game license that is good for 365 days (well…actually my life!) allows me to hunt pheasants, but the wildlife board still sets limits and the season dates.
It is a big change in that all those LE cougar permits that were awarded just a few days ago appear to be useless now. But the wildlife board still has a chance to weigh in here in their role, and I this won’t mean hunters kill many more cats. Trappers on the other hand, that may result in many more cats killed. But I’m the hunting side? Not many cats killed without dogs, and that won’t change.
It’s the difference between cats and sheep, if you are looking for “real world diversity” you found it. If you’re looking for “fake world diversity” may I suggest:I love that MM is my one stop shop. I’m one click away from a “the sky is falling the SFW is colluding to kill all the predators” in one state to “the govt is allowing the predators to thrive in order to kill off all the deer so they can take away my guns” in another. It’s fantastic.
Ironic isn't it. For those that didn't forsee the slippery slope, they deserve everything that's about to come down the pipeline.Wait a minute fellas when Snider wrote the trail cam/bait ban bill two years ago most of you loved him for it said it needed to be done. Now that he continues to overreach it's a bad thing???
So back when Snider first introduced HB 295 in 2021 he said one of the driving factors behind him introducing the bill regulating trail cameras was because the wildlife board didn't have the authority to regulate cameras. The original bill was later amended to grant that authority to the wildlife board. The final bill included the language below:
View attachment 104623
A few months after the bill is passed the wildlife board DOES make rules regulating the use of trail cameras. But under the new rule a person can still use a trail camera from Aug 1 to Dec 31 if it is solely for recreational purposes and not to aid in the take of game.
Clearly that wasn't good enough for Snider so he introduces HB469 to ban all trail cameras on public land from Jul 31 to Dec 31 -- overriding the Wildlife Board's rules. He also throws in a few points on how he thinks cats should be managed.
This guy has a clear pattern of overstepping his boundaries and I don't like the idea of politicians regulating our wildlife. There is a reason we have a Wildlife Board, RAC meetings, public comment, and biologists all working together to regulate our state's wildlife. Snider needs to allow that process to take place rather than ramming his ideas through the legislative process.
You’re right regarding the way these two issues have been handled by Rep. Snider. I agree, I don’t like it when Legislators regulates wildlife either. That said, I’ve personally gone directly to different Governors and different Legislators to do exactly that.So back when Snider first introduced HB 295 in 2021 he said one of the driving factors behind him introducing the bill regulating trail cameras was because the wildlife board didn't have the authority to regulate cameras. The original bill was later amended to grant that authority to the wildlife board. The final bill included the language below:
View attachment 104623
A few months after the bill is passed the wildlife board DOES make rules regulating the use of trail cameras. But under the new rule a person can still use a trail camera from Aug 1 to Dec 31 if it is solely for recreational purposes and not to aid in the take of game.
Clearly that wasn't good enough for Snider so he introduces HB469 to ban all trail cameras on public land from Jul 31 to Dec 31 -- overriding the Wildlife Board's rules. He also throws in a few points on how he thinks cats should be managed.
This guy has a clear pattern of overstepping his boundaries and I don't like the idea of politicians regulating our wildlife. There is a reason we have a Wildlife Board, RAC meetings, public comment, and biologists all working together to regulate our state's wildlife. Snider needs to allow that process to take place rather than ramming his ideas through the legislative process.
I've seen wads of TP on the sides of the road multiple times, I'll bring it up to the technology committee ?Ironic isn't it. For those that didn't forsee the slippery slope, they deserve everything that's about to come down the pipeline.
Gone are the days of simply going out and enjoying the outdoors. Now you need to take a course on the proper way of pooping in the woods.
Thanks for the cordial response and helping me see the other side of the argument. I'm in agreement... not happy with the DWR over mule deer management. Also not happy with legislators managing wildlife.You’re right regarding the way these two issues have been handled by Rep. Snider. I agree, I don’t like it when Legislators regulates wildlife either. That said, I’ve personally gone directly to different Governors and different Legislators to do exactly that.
This is not the first time this has happened and Snider is not the first Legislator that has introduced bills regarding wildlife regulation.
You haven’t made many posts on MM so I’ll just assume you haven’t read many if any of my posts. I’m not happy with the DWR, over mule deer management.
The question is why is Snider doing this?
He’s doing it because the bureaucracy system has failed to. It is the DWR and the Wildlife Board’s job. They are inept, they can’t bring themselves to do what needs to be done. Then that happens the public looks to a more powerful body to do the job the bureaucrats won’t. It’s legal but it’s a piss poor why to do business.
Notice the Director of the DWR supported the bill. It’s that ironic or what.
When the government fails to do its job the public steps forward to over ride government. Snider is a public representative in the Government using his power to do what the government bureaucracy won’t.
It’s a crappy why to run a rail road but it’s being done because somebody had to do something……. be it good or bad, depending on your individual point of view.
Wrong. The bills are drafted because Snider took it upon himself to push his personal agenda and continues to do so. You're smarter than that Hoss. It won't stop here either, what happens when a more radical gets in and starts pushing their agenda? Ask the guys from CA how that's working out for them.I read, in this forum, dozens and dozens of dudes who read/saw/watched what the WB did, in Farmington, roughly a year ago, and proudly proclaimed how they intended to NOT follow the WB rules.
So, why are those same guys now surprised that if THEY don't want to honor the process/ rules, then others won't either.
The WB DID NOT WANT TRAIL CAMS DURING HUNTING SEASONS. They DID NOT want a bunch of new "bird watchers", "weather watchers", "researchers", etc.
The very reason rule books are as thick as they are, is because we have a bunch of dudes constantly trying to exploit grey areas and loopholes. Not because Snider, Peay, Shirley or any of the others at the bottom of the bill, like writing legal documents.
Ironic isn't it. For those that didn't forsee the slippery slope, they deserve everything that's about to come down the pipeline.
Gone are the days of simply going out and enjoying the outdoors. Now you need to take a course on the proper way of pooping in the woods.
You Mean They'll be able To Take a Hunter & TRY And Tree a Cat!From the initial language in the bill it read to me that DOPL can’t regulate (ie) guiding for cougars.
So I like this part of that is correct. This will allow all the guys who run dogs and that aren’t outfitters to be able to take a hunter and tree a cat.
We are always needing volunteers at our MDF projects.I love the increased fee on dedicated hunter hours. If you’re going to allow people to buy their way out of the intent of the program, at least make it hurt a little bit. And make it worth the resources to even collect that money.
Heck, I say double it from where it’s at again!
I love the increased fee on dedicated hunter hours. If you’re going to allow people to buy their way out of the intent of the program, at least make it hurt a little bit. And make it worth the resources to even collect that money.
Heck, I say double it from where it’s at again!
Sounds good until you look for projects for thousands of dudes and there is a few dozen.
A few years ago I bought the DWR winches. Few years before I bought them chainsaws.
Now compare that to delivering proclamations, or taking tickets at rmef banquet, both of which I've done, which has more value?
I Hope They Were STIHLS?
Just some constructive criticism.We are always needing volunteers at our MDF projects.
It's frustrating how many procrastinate until the very end and we are either done, don't have anything available in THEIR time frames and then it's somehow our fault they have to buy their way out ?
Do people get DH hours for the Expo?We are always needing volunteers at our MDF projects.
It's frustrating how many procrastinate until the very end and we are either done, don't have anything available in THEIR time frames and then it's somehow our fault they have to buy their way out ?
I love the increased fee on dedicated hunter hours. If you’re going to allow people to buy their way out of the intent of the program, at least make it hurt a little bit. And make it worth the resources to even collect that money.
Heck, I say double it from where it’s at again!
They'd Rather Have/Take The GREENBACK!
Probably. Not sure why that matters. They got a hell of a lot more out of those saws I bought, than any ticket taking at a banquet.
The point of the hours is(You Mean Was?) to benefit wildlife
A few years ago, I signed up to do a project for a handful of guys, took the time off work, and a few days before, something came up and the guy in charge couldnt be there and they canceled. That year was very busy for me and I ended up pay $320 for my tag for hours. NOT COOL! I am against the increase. I have been on some really cool projects and some really lame and worthless projects.Just some constructive criticism.
I took a day off work so I could help on a MDF project for dedicated hours. I guess the turn out was so big that instead of getting the 8 hours I was told to anticipate, I only got just over 4. Not blaming anyone or saying they are all like that. The project was fun. However, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Looking back at it, it wasn't worth planning the day and driving two hours to come away with half of what I had anticipated.
Can approved projects come with a guaranteed hour completion? In other words from example above, get it done in 4 hours but still get the 8? Could travel time and expenses be considered?
I really enjoyed the dedicated hunter program. I didn't buy any hours. Being able to experience a full years hunt was extremely satisfying. No worrying that it was going to be another 5 years before I could hunt again. No pressure in feeling like I had to get it done. I passed on so many good bucks that I know I wouldn't have with a general tag. Another reason that leads me to believe that tag cuts aren't the answer.
Anyway, just thinking out loud and rambling late at night.
That's because they neighbor California, lions are not afraid to look for new territory.With the exception of the trapping piece isn’t this how NV currently manages lions? You can even shoot two. The lions over there seem to be doing just fine.
The trail cam and cougar additions were also a win for wildlife (i.e. deer and elk), despite how and when they were added.The majority of this bill is a win for wildlife.
What is not is the trail cam and cougar additions that were added after comment and apparently unknowingly to the Don and DWR who were in favor of this bill.
Snider is a shady dude pushing his own agendas and doing it all behind closed doors.
Game regulation should and is being handled by the DWR and biologists. Not some hillbilly Representative from northern Utah.
The majority of this bill is a win for wildlife.
What is not is the trail cam and cougar additions that were added after comment and apparently unknowingly to the Don and DWR who were in favor of this bill.
Snider is a shady dude pushing his own agendas and doing it all behind closed doors.
Game regulation should and is being handled by the DWR and biologists. Not some hillbilly Representative from northern Utah.
Like any other sheep on this forum that can’t talk through their wallet, looking forward to doing some kitty killing.
Casey works with the DWR pretty well I just worked a project with him and he is a big DWR supporterYeah, it should be done by $fw instead. I know you don't want to believe it, but the DWR wanted the trail cam reg. They wanted the bait ban too. Snider is on that committee in the legislature.
The issue hasn't been the DWR. The issue has been the $fw roadblock on the WB.
The cougar thing wasn't Snider's.
You can call him. He's pretty easy to get a hold of, he's not some "shady hillbilly", but he's more in tune with what DWR wants than what the lobbyists want.
I have seen a grand total of zero cats while out hunting, fishing, scouting, backpacking, hiking, or any other activity in the outdoors. I've seen fresh tracks, one time a little creepy as it was following me in the fresh fallen snow as I returned where I came from and seeing where the tracks broke off from my trail and went up the hill. I've seen fresh kills that I probably ran the cat off while coming into the area. I've never actually seen a cougar in the wild.
My issue isn’t necessarily what they are asking for, it’s the bypassing of the public input and doing it without the WB.Yeah, it should be done by $fw instead. I know you don't want to believe it, but the DWR wanted the trail cam reg. They wanted the bait ban too. Snider is on that committee in the legislature.
The issue hasn't been the DWR. The issue has been the $fw roadblock on the WB.
The cougar thing wasn't Snider's.
You can call him. He's pretty easy to get a hold of, he's not some "shady hillbilly", but he's more in tune with what DWR wants than what the lobbyists want.
You jackasses really don’t think lions are the problem do you? Look at how many lions have been killed this year on the unlimited units. NOT MANY!!! Why you may ask? There aren’t very many left to kill… they have been hammered the last ten years in utah. Our wonderful dipchit division of wildlife just needs to blame something for their poor management. Only in utah can we activate a emergency mountain lion plan and open more spike elk and general units a year apart. Haha you clowns keep drinking the kool-aid!!! Oh and if you jokers think the anti hunters won’t come after ALL of your trapping rights in utah if this passes you kind of deserve to lose them.
My issue isn’t necessarily what they are asking for, it’s the bypassing of the public input and doing it without the WB.
It may be an SFW chit show but it’s the way things are supposed to be done.
Excited to set a few trapsYou jackasses really don’t think lions are the problem do you? Look at how many lions have been killed this year on the unlimited units. NOT MANY!!! Why you may ask? There aren’t very many left to kill… they have been hammered the last ten years in utah. Our wonderful dipchit division of wildlife just needs to blame something for their poor management. Only in utah can we activate a emergency mountain lion plan and open more spike elk and general units a year apart. Haha you clowns keep drinking the kool-aid!!! Oh and if you jokers think the anti hunters won’t come after ALL of your trapping rights in utah if this passes you kind of deserve to lose them.
Could not say it better myself.The way things are supposed to be done flew the coop when $fw took over all the committee and boards.
When I small minority, special interest group can block scientific data and studies in pursuit of their commercial hunting interests, the DWR needs a different way.
We can't sit around, ***** about management then allow a small group to block management by the DWR, because Doyle or WLH don't want to lose their tools.
As of last weekend, I know of 10 lions killed along the wasatch front. Thats not that many, LOL!!! But I do know this, that is alot of deer that will survive, if they survive this snow. My son and I have have tags too. Weve been close a few times on a great tom. But he has outsmarted us a few times now. But we will keep at it.You jackasses really don’t think lions are the problem do you? Look at how many lions have been killed this year on the unlimited units. NOT MANY!!! Why you may ask? There aren’t very many left to kill… they have been hammered the last ten years in utah. Our wonderful dipchit division of wildlife just needs to blame something for their poor management. Only in utah can we activate a emergency mountain lion plan and open more spike elk and general units a year apart. Haha you clowns keep drinking the kool-aid!!! Oh and if you jokers think the anti hunters won’t come after ALL of your trapping rights in utah if this passes you kind of deserve to lose them.
Would you believe it if someone said, the DWR likes it done this way……. when they want it done this way.As of last weekend, I know of 10 lions killed along the wasatch front. Thats not that many, LOL!!! But I do know this, that is alot of deer that will survive, if they survive this snow. My son and I have have tags too. Weve been close a few times on a great tom. But he has outsmarted us a few times now. But we will keep at it.
TO be clear, I dont agree with how the government made this decision, it MUST be kept with the DWR.
Exactly, but that there lies the problem. They need the juevos to do the right thing. I do like the idea of the killing lots of lions.Would you believe it if someone said, the DWR likes it done this way……. when they want it done this way.
Many many many many times, since Representative Duane Washburn forced the DWR, by way of Legislation, to stop allowing “either sex” mule deer tags in the 1960’s. (If the DWR won’t, we will, (Utah’s Legislature) is the bottom line)
The DWR has learned when to skin its own skunks and when to have the Legislature do it for them.
Nothing happens by chance or by accident in these matters.
For or against what?Please voice your opinion whether FOR or AGAINST @ https://cs.utah.gov/s/submit
Done. Thanks for post this sight.Please voice your opinion whether FOR or AGAINST @ https://cs.utah.gov/s/submit
407 have been killed on the unlimited, only 6 on the LE units, so your information is wrong.You jackasses really don’t think lions are the problem do you? Look at how many lions have been killed this year on the unlimited units. NOT MANY!!! Why you may ask? There aren’t very many left to kill… they have been hammered the last ten years in utah. Our wonderful dipchit division of wildlife just needs to blame something for their poor management. Only in utah can we activate a emergency mountain lion plan and open more spike elk and general units a year apart. Haha you clowns keep drinking the kool-aid!!! Oh and if you jokers think the anti hunters won’t come after ALL of your trapping rights in utah if this passes you kind of deserve to lose them.
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