I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?
I can't imagine them not testing for safety, but.....I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?
Ya, probably like how they tested round up.I can't imagine them not testing for safety, but.....
Even saying that, I think it's worth a shot to see the results in a couple test areas.Ya, probably like how they tested round up.
Agreed! I would still like to have something tied to results and not just trying.Wildlife crossings, working to address cheat grass.
I like it! It may not solve all our problems, but at least they are trying.
Let's see who else steps up to make some of this work!
The article didn't have a link but I will go to work on it.Hey Slam any idea the area they are trying this in. Weāve had a lot of burns all around the state.
lots of faulty info floating around,,,,Ya, probably like how they tested round up.
Curious as to why cost matters when it's so beneficial?anyone have the name/label info? as in the actual active ingredient ? as for test plots other states seem to be trying to control, as mentioned Nevada ,,, the process has been pretty heavily pushed by someone on here for awhile,,, maybe he will chime in ,,,, i wonder how much per acre the treatment costs ?
One treatment per year? Or does a spring and fall application actually equal what they are calling "one" treatment?
It does good in drought years because it pulls all the available moisture from everything else thats more beneficial for big game.We've been overrun with cheat here for at least 75 years. it's actually good spring feed and other than a fire hazard in the summer I'm not sure what all the panic is about.
It does good in drought years and it's great for game birds. I suppose our ecosystem has adapted to work with it.
Our deer numbers used to be great and cheat was around long before the decline. we have some of the biggest California bighorn sheep in the world and they live in cheat. elk eat it in the spring then move up when the snow melts.
i was curious you are correct money should not be an issue ,,,, they should have already allocated funding.Curious as to why cost matters when it's so beneficial?
We should be throwing everything we can at these types of projects.
Money should be no object with all the various Conservation groups around.
I don't mean to nitpick, but don't you have to actually try something to get any result? The results you are asking for are actually spelled out in the original post that Slam shared above:Agreed! I would still like to have something tied to results and not just trying.
Money should be no object with all the various Conservation groups around.
No so much public anymore, but still a huge part of it.Agreed! Particularly with how much we hand them every year though the conservation permit and expo permit allocations. These groups live off the public teet, so high dollar amounts for these types of projects shouldn't be a big deal.
We definitely already doi was curious you are correct money should not be an issue ,,,, they should have already allocated funding.
It does good in drought years because it pulls all the available moisture from everything else thats more beneficial for big game.
That's what I have been told by more than one biologist.
Maybe not true?
Check out jims posts on this Forum, he has been using a cheat grass poison in Colorado for about 10 years and sharing the research results. Lots of data, pictures before and after treatments etc etc. expensive yes, worth every pennyā¦ā¦ absolutely. Iām glad to see others moving forward as well , but damn it takes these Gov agencies a long time to get anything done!!!anyone have the name/label info? as in the actual active ingredient ? as for test plots other states seem to be trying to control, as mentioned Nevada ,,, the process has been pretty heavily pushed by someone on here for awhile,,, maybe he will chime in ,,,, i wonder how much per acre the treatment costs ?
One treatment per year? Or does a spring and fall application actually equal what they are calling "one" treatment?
but damn it takes these Gov agencies a long time to get anything done!!!
Fighting this war long term will make such a positive impact on the mule deer numbers that even those fighting it could be surprised!.........over Cheatgrass
elk,I don't mean to nitpick, but don't you have to actually try something to get any result? The results you are asking for are actually spelled out in the original post that Slam shared above:
1. Increase wildlife habitat by reducing cheatgrass expansion
2. Improve growing conditions for native forbs, grasses, brush
3. Increase diversity and fire resilience
Sounds good to me and seems like the effort will likely lead to very positive results Hope this becomes a trend!
You are absolutely correct. In factā¦ā¦ if it wonāt hurt your feeling too muchā¦..Iāll share a little unprotected secret with youā¦ā¦ there are two test cheat grass treatment projects that are already two years old, one near Fountain Green and another south of the town of Beaver. Using the product the jims has been using in Colorado. Iāve drove over to see the Beaver project last spring. Never have been to the one by Fountain Green. As I recall, both projects were partially funded by none other thanā¦ā¦.. you guessed it, MDF and SWF.It does. Maddeningly so, most times!
It begs the question, however...
We started the expo tag program in 2007, correct? I'll just pick one of the organizations involved, but how much have they made off the expo tag program since 2007?
This seems like an issue a "conservation" organization that has been awarded millions upon millions of dollars entirely off the public teet would be anxious to be involved with. But I'm just a guy on the internet, so what do I know?
There probably from Monsanto itās safe fda approved poison no need to worry itāll probably just give you cancer.I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?
I think the christened term is knuckleheadThis seems like an issue a "conservation" organization that has been awarded millions upon millions of dollars entirely off the public teet would be anxious to be involved with. But I'm just a guy on the internet, so what do I know?
Some of the evil Expo revenue may have gone into the Utah cheat grass projectā¦ā¦. at least the ones in FG and Beaver but donāt let that influence you in anyway.This is good news so Thank You to whoever put the wheels in motion and is contributing
Some of the evil Expo revenue may have gone into the Utah cheat grass projectā¦ā¦. at least the ones in FG and Beaver but donāt let that influence you in anyway.
It is peanutsā¦.. but so is each participants. $5 a gamble. Not exactly sticking the knife in very deep, is it. Of course, the unspoken revenue from gate recipes is where big dollars come from. The gate revenue is peanuts too, per individual. Collectively however it adds up to those millions your referring to.I get what youāre saying lump, but you are talking peanuts compared to what theyāve pulled from the 100% public resources they benefit from.
I have no doubt that good things have happened, but if the āconservationā organizations that have been handed millions upon millions of dollars to do just this type of stuff havenāt been pushing that for a long time, then who was supposed to? Is not that what conservation is? Or do I have this all wrong?
This duster that I know told me the problem in the past whenever there was a chaining project or after fires the controlling jurisdiction would plant one of the popular rye grass (crested wheat grass) and it would grow so thick and tall that browse was not allowed to get started, now they plant a fescue grass which is not as dominant as the rye grasses, a lot more success with browse growth.And How Many years Ago Should We Have Been Doing This?
We Decided To Waste Money On RAILING/CHAINING!
It Failed!
We Killed The Sage Brush!
Bad Move There!
We Had Controlled Burns!
Some Of Them Failed!
We Cut Down Alot Of P/J Trees!
Anybody Know If That Done Anything Positive?
Exactly why the BLM & USFS just partnered with MDF (and only them) to supplement an additional $65 million dollars on habitat projects across the west.It is peanutsā¦.. but so is each participants. $5 a gamble. Not exactly sticking the knife in very deep, is it. Of course, the unspoken revenue from gate recipes is where big dollars come from. The gate revenue is peanuts too, per individual. Collectively however it adds up to those millions your referring to.
The two cheat grass projects are in fact peanuts, as you say, but the collective projects arenāt peanuts. And thatās the magic, huh? Peanut are collectively worth millions, both coming in and going out.
Now then, if these cheat grass projects prove effective I would, like you, hope to see much larger treatments and would expect the conservation groups will not only help pay for those but will also, wisely, use those Expo revenues to leverage much larger dollars and treatments by matching State and Federal dollars that will be made available. Without matching millions we would loose otherwise available millions of dollars coming from other sources.
Long live the Expo.
Almost 50 posts in. Isnāt it timed for your ADHD to start a new thread?Exactly why the BLM & USFS just partnered with MDF (and only them) to supplement an additional $65 million dollars on habitat projects across the west.
I say have the precedes from the Expo buy 3 more of these planes and lets spray more and more and buy more and more planes. Lets nip this in the arse ASAP!!!
Home boy is obsessed!
A drywaller trying to give someone chit about drug use? Laughin'That pipeline money must roll in end of month with the welfare money.
Little feller has to ration the hippy lettuce 29 more days till "payday".
Makes him cranky
A drywaller trying to give someone chit about drug use? Laughin'
Almost as foolish as using the word war to describe spraying an isolated area for cheatgrass. Oh chit thats right you utards add a space to it, cheat grass.
I rest my caseā¦ā¦.Our EXPO model is so fantastic at growing Mule Deer Iām SURE all other states with Mule Deer problems are dying to start their own EXPO program!
āEXPOā, coming to YOUR state soon!!
I wish other states would have an expo. It would be great if the 5 dollar tag was resident only.Our EXPO model is so fantastic at growing Mule Deer Iām SURE all other states with Mule Deer problems are dying to start their own EXPO program!
āEXPOā, coming to YOUR state soon!!
Nahā¦ā¦ the non-resident bring a lot of dollar they spend besides the $5 fee they pay to gamble with us. Their impact is very significant and the number of animals they harvest from the Expo draws are hardly measurable, in the big picture. Utah gives them a little, they repay us handsomely.I wish other states would have an expo. It would be great if the 5 dollar tag was resident only.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.Nahā¦ā¦ the non-resident bring a lot of dollar they spend besides the $5 fee they pay to gamble with us. Their impact is very significant and the number of animals they harvest from the Expo draws are hardly measurable, in the big picture. Utah gives them a little, they repay us handsomely.
And ya know, they go back home, work hard, in their own State, and come back again next year and leave that hard earned money here againā¦ā¦ over and over. Crazy good, in my opinion.
Iām one of many who think a same sacrifice, with small risk to my pocket book, that might well pay a major returnā¦.. is worth giving some peanuts to.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a āmajor returnā, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a āhighest bidder buys an animalā sport.
Itās all good, Iām used to disagreementsā¦I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a āmajor returnā, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a āhighest bidder buys an animalā sport.
Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a āmajor returnā, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a āhighest bidder buys an animalā sport.
Cliffnotes version : Slamdunk drinks the kool aid.Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.
We had over 30k patrons attend the 2023 SLC Expo.
I can't see 10k+ people going to Albuquerque NM, Cheyenne WY, Boise ID, Phoenix AZ or Billings MT.
Maybe 10k in Denver CO or Reno NV.....maybe.
Just depends on guidelines and rules another state may require in lieu of tags offered.
SLC UT is centralized, has a multi million census, plenty of accommodations for thousands of people and home of the two Conservation Hosts.
Cliffnotes version : Slamdunk drinks the kool aid.
Iām pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but whereās the koolaid.Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.
We had over 30k patrons attend the 2023 SLC Expo.
I can't see 10k+ people going to Albuquerque NM, Cheyenne WY, Boise ID, Phoenix AZ or Billings MT.
Maybe 10k in Denver CO or Reno NV.....maybe.
Just depends on guidelines and rules another state may require in lieu of tags offered.
SLC UT is centralized, has a multi million census, plenty of accommodations for thousands of people and home of the two Conservation Hosts.
No need bothering to answer that AK moron, it's time spent you'll never get back.Iām pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but whereās the koolaid.
Slamdud is an expo groupie. He believes it actually is a net positive for conservationIām pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but whereās the koolaid.
Translation: my feelings are hurt because he calls out my BSNo need bothering to answer that AK moron, it's time spent you'll never get back.
Wellā¦ā¦ā¦. we all can call each other outā¦ā¦ but when I agree Iām willing to say I do. A spade is a spadeā¦.. coming or going. I only keep a couple rocks in my pocket.Translation: my feelings are hurt because he calls out my BS
Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.Slamdud is an expo groupie. He believes it actually is a net positive for conservation
Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.
I'll give you a full day to post your proof, but I'm 100% confident that's a full day too much and a complete waste of time because you can't.
In the mean time, I can bury you with information on my side of the isle, but it's already transparent with less time invested than you wasting time spewing more of that BS.
In the meantime, tell us again what YOU DO for wildlife and Conservation?
Oh ya, you sent $35 to RMEF, got a free knife and put $1 of your Alaskan dollars towards elk in Pennsylvania that you'll never even see š
Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).
Then he can show us, just like I can show you where expo dollars go.Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).
Well looks like I struck a nerve with the expo groupie. And now this groupie is trying to act like one of the rock stars and make demands? You're just a groupie, you can't make demands. You will be used, abused and thrown aside.Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.
I'll give you a full day to post your proof, but I'm 100% confident that's a full day too much and a complete waste of time because you can't.
In the mean time, I can bury you with information on my side of the isle, but it's already transparent with less time invested than you wasting time spewing more of that BS.
In the meantime, tell us again what YOU DO for wildlife and Conservation?
Oh ya, you sent $35 to RMEF, got a free knife and put $1 of your Alaskan dollars towards elk in Pennsylvania that you'll never even see š
Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).
Classic. Everyone has done that. Next post up removing barb wire fence. Or how about doing winterkill counts? Or helping with the cedar removal on winter range? Been there done that got the t shirt.Then he can show us, just like I can show you where expo dollars go.
Is he out doing the work with his $35?
I am....View attachment 129288
Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?
Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?
Utah Division of Wildlife under fire for possible corruption
Was the permit distributor for the annual hunting expo rigged?www.gohunt.com
Can't wait to be buried with that when the documents are posted by Slamdunk. If the expo is really about raising money for conservation why wouldn't you let RMEF run it and give 100% back?
oh thats right, it was never about conservation in the first place
Edited to add link.
Iām tied up at work today. Can you post a link explaining this? Or PM me. Thanks!Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract
OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract
I remember it. Although I do not remember the exact details, I believe that they (RMEF) were not even considered. Given RMEF's track record, they should have absolutey been considered.Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?
Utah Division of Wildlife under fire for possible corruption
Was the permit distributor for the annual hunting expo rigged?www.gohunt.com
Can't wait to be buried with that when the documents are posted by Slamdunk. If the expo is really about raising money for conservation why wouldn't you let RMEF run it and give 100% back?
oh thats right, it was never about conservation in the first place
Edited to add link.
Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract
Thanks for sharing that Robiland. I'll wait to hear from @slamdunk because he has enough documents to bury me. But I can't find the one hes claiming where RMEF wasn't qualified. Not saying it isn't there, but google brings up a lot of BS.OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.
IN FACT.........when all the bids were supposed to be turned in by law by statute outlined in the rules, there was only 1 bid turned in on Sept 15th (if my memory of the dates serves my correct) by 5 pm. Any guess whos that was? No, it was not SFW or MDF. There was 1 bid turned in on time by deadline outlined in the administrative rules. ONLY ONE! Yep, it was RMEF!!!
Everything they had outlined per rules was checked off. Everything. That was when DWR and SFW/MDF did an "OH SHI!" moment. Thats when people had to start to get out of bed, if you know what I mean!!!! Because they were all in bed with one another!
I won't die on the hill with that, there are other factors as well.OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.
IN FACT.........when all the bids were supposed to be turned in by law by statute outlined in the rules, there was only 1 bid turned in on Sept 15th (if my memory of the dates serves my correct) by 5 pm. Any guess whos that was? No, it was not SFW or MDF. There was 1 bid turned in on time by deadline outlined in the administrative rules. ONLY ONE! Yep, it was RMEF!!!
Everything they had outlined per rules was checked off. Everything. That was when DWR and SFW/MDF did an "OH SHI!" moment. Thats when people had to start to get out of bed, if you know what I mean!!!! Because they were all in bed with one another!
I mean, we could go tit for tat all day long about this.
It's all on the DNR page, including the scoring and investigation.
View attachment 129309
Please provide link. Thank you!I won't die on the hill with that, there are other factors as well.
But I do know they did not have a partner lined up which is a requirement.
Slam... that was all BS and you know it. They were to use the EXACT SAME company the DWR used to process the cards. PLUS, they did contract with a credit card company since they did not have the bid, and that was explained in the bid.I mean, we could go tit for tat all day long about this.
It's all on the DNR page, including the scoring and investigation.
View attachment 129309
Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.
Groupies are a dedicated bunch. Iām pretty sure I saw slammy on the auction floor one night at the expo. If not it was his doppelgƤngerā¦Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.
Using documentation from the DWR to show/explain why they awarded SFW over RMEF is akin to asking Bill Clinton if he slept with Monica Lewinsky. No way in hades you are getting the straight answer!!
Ok ok I'll bow out and with great respect to all my comrades here on MM.Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.
Using documentation from the DWR to show/explain why they awarded SFW over RMEF is akin to asking Bill Clinton if he slept with Monica Lewinsky. No way in hades you are getting the straight answer!!
World series of Team Roping partnered with MDF beginning last year.The RMEF Is Supporting The NFR This Year!
The Issue I Have With The RMEF Is:
BC Shows up At The WB Meetings And Says:
The RMEF Agrees With Every & All Changes Recommended!
Not All Changes Are Good Nor Should All Recommended Changes Be Made!
JFP!
This is literally called a "Justification Statement" it was never meant to be an independent audit of the DWR's actions.
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