Utah Finally Going To War

[slamdunk]

.........over Cheatgrass

 

[SS!]

 

[ridgetops]

I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?

 

[middlefork]

Google cheat grass control and read to your hearts content.

 

[mevertsen]

It's been going on here in NV for a few years. I believe some areas are in the stage if seeding now. It will be several years now before we see the results I imagine. Dry fall so far this year, how we get some good moisture to hold the seed in for the spring.

 

[elkassassin]

Don't Worry ridge!

Us Humans Will Test It!

Down The Road In 30-40 Years It Might tip you Over From Eating The Deer That Ingested The Feed In The Area That Was Sprayed!

I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?

 

[slamdunk]

I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?

I can't imagine them not testing for safety, but.....

 

[ridgetops]

I can't imagine them not testing for safety, but.....

Ya, probably like how they tested round up.

 

[Robiland]

I say have the precedes from the Expo buy 3 more of these planes and lets spray more and more and buy more and more planes. Lets nip this in the arse ASAP!!!

 

[ridgetops]

Ya, probably like how they tested round up.

Even saying that, I think it's worth a shot to see the results in a couple test areas.

 

[Vanilla]

Wildlife crossings, working to address cheat grass.

I like it! It may not solve all our problems, but at least they are trying.

Let's see who else steps up to make some of this work!

 

[Muley_73]

Wildlife crossings, working to address cheat grass.

I like it! It may not solve all our problems, but at least they are trying.

Let's see who else steps up to make some of this work!

Agreed! I would still like to have something tied to results and not just trying.

 

[Camper_A1]

Hey Slam any idea the area they are trying this in. We’ve had a lot of burns all around the state.

 

[slamdunk]

Hey Slam any idea the area they are trying this in. We’ve had a lot of burns all around the state.

The article didn't have a link but I will go to work on it.

 

[Camper_A1]

Thanks for keeping us informed.

 

[wytex]

I've seen the results first hand here in SE Wyoming, Sybille Canyon.
State has been spraying wildfire areas last few years with marked success. Much better grass and way less cheatgrass.
Just over the ridge from where they spray we have a major issue with cheatgrass on private ground, it does really take over areas quickly.
Would be nice to get some mountain mahogany management going as well though.

Bighorn sheep are thriving in areas they have sprayed, but they are doing well all over this area so....
It is pretty cool watching the helicopter pilot maneuver in that Canyon.

 

[tylercreek2]

Ya, probably like how they tested round up.

lots of faulty info floating around,,,,

 

[tylercreek2]

anyone have the name/label info? as in the actual active ingredient ? as for test plots other states seem to be trying to control, as mentioned Nevada ,,, the process has been pretty heavily pushed by someone on here for awhile,,, maybe he will chime in ,,,, i wonder how much per acre the treatment costs ?
One treatment per year? Or does a spring and fall application actually equal what they are calling "one" treatment?

 

[slamdunk]

anyone have the name/label info? as in the actual active ingredient ? as for test plots other states seem to be trying to control, as mentioned Nevada ,,, the process has been pretty heavily pushed by someone on here for awhile,,, maybe he will chime in ,,,, i wonder how much per acre the treatment costs ?
One treatment per year? Or does a spring and fall application actually equal what they are calling "one" treatment?

Curious as to why cost matters when it's so beneficial?
We should be throwing everything we can at these types of projects.

Money should be no object with all the various Conservation groups around.

 

[Togwotee]

We've been overrun with cheat here for at least 75 years. it's actually good spring feed and other than a fire hazard in the summer I'm not sure what all the panic is about.

It does good in drought years and it's great for game birds. I suppose our ecosystem has adapted to work with it.

Our deer numbers used to be great and cheat was around long before the decline. we have some of the biggest California bighorn sheep in the world and they live in cheat. elk eat it in the spring then move up when the snow melts.

 

[slamdunk]

We've been overrun with cheat here for at least 75 years. it's actually good spring feed and other than a fire hazard in the summer I'm not sure what all the panic is about.

It does good in drought years and it's great for game birds. I suppose our ecosystem has adapted to work with it.

Our deer numbers used to be great and cheat was around long before the decline. we have some of the biggest California bighorn sheep in the world and they live in cheat. elk eat it in the spring then move up when the snow melts.

It does good in drought years because it pulls all the available moisture from everything else thats more beneficial for big game.
That's what I have been told by more than one biologist.
Maybe not true?

 

[tylercreek2]

Curious as to why cost matters when it's so beneficial?
We should be throwing everything we can at these types of projects.

Money should be no object with all the various Conservation groups around.

i was curious you are correct money should not be an issue ,,,, they should have already allocated funding.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Agreed! I would still like to have something tied to results and not just trying.

I don't mean to nitpick, but don't you have to actually try something to get any result? The results you are asking for are actually spelled out in the original post that Slam shared above:

1. Increase wildlife habitat by reducing cheatgrass expansion
2. Improve growing conditions for native forbs, grasses, brush
3. Increase diversity and fire resilience

Sounds good to me and seems like the effort will likely lead to very positive results Hope this becomes a trend!

 

[tylercreek2]

also is whatever chemistry being used applied wet or dry? has to be watered in X amount of days after application ?

 

[Vanilla]

Money should be no object with all the various Conservation groups around.

Agreed! Particularly with how much we hand them every year though the conservation permit and expo permit allocations. These groups live off the public teet, so high dollar amounts for these types of projects shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[tylercreek2]

apparently its been in the us since the mid 1800s kinda like the Russian thistle and starlings and god only knows how many other things that WE introduced and cant get rid of.

 

[tylercreek2]

what i hope that we don't see is a non serious effort then just give up. If you indeed start give it the maximum amount of effort and get rid of it. I will assume that it will be quite a process.

 

[tylercreek2]

https://www.us.envu.com/vegetation-management/range-and-pasture/products/rejuvra

?

 

[slamdunk]

Agreed! Particularly with how much we hand them every year though the conservation permit and expo permit allocations. These groups live off the public teet, so high dollar amounts for these types of projects shouldn't be a big deal.

No so much public anymore, but still a huge part of it.

I agree though, this type of conservation efforts are what we need more of, not too mention it's more transparent as well.

 

[slamdunk]

i was curious you are correct money should not be an issue ,,,, they should have already allocated funding.

We definitely already do

 

[elkassassin]

That's What it Does!

It SUCKS In More Than One Way!

It does good in drought years because it pulls all the available moisture from everything else thats more beneficial for big game.
That's what I have been told by more than one biologist.
Maybe not true?

 

[2lumpy]

anyone have the name/label info? as in the actual active ingredient ? as for test plots other states seem to be trying to control, as mentioned Nevada ,,, the process has been pretty heavily pushed by someone on here for awhile,,, maybe he will chime in ,,,, i wonder how much per acre the treatment costs ?
One treatment per year? Or does a spring and fall application actually equal what they are calling "one" treatment?

Check out jims posts on this Forum, he has been using a cheat grass poison in Colorado for about 10 years and sharing the research results. Lots of data, pictures before and after treatments etc etc. expensive yes, worth every penny…… absolutely. I’m glad to see others moving forward as well , but damn it takes these Gov agencies a long time to get anything done!!!

 

[Vanilla]

but damn it takes these Gov agencies a long time to get anything done!!!

It does. Maddeningly so, most times!

It begs the question, however...

We started the expo tag program in 2007, correct? I'll just pick one of the organizations involved, but how much have they made off the expo tag program since 2007?

This seems like an issue a "conservation" organization that has been awarded millions upon millions of dollars entirely off the public teet would be anxious to be involved with. But I'm just a guy on the internet, so what do I know?

 

[elkfromabove]

.........over Cheatgrass

Fighting this war long term will make such a positive impact on the mule deer numbers that even those fighting it could be surprised!

 

[Muley_73]

I don't mean to nitpick, but don't you have to actually try something to get any result? The results you are asking for are actually spelled out in the original post that Slam shared above:

1. Increase wildlife habitat by reducing cheatgrass expansion
2. Improve growing conditions for native forbs, grasses, brush
3. Increase diversity and fire resilience

Sounds good to me and seems like the effort will likely lead to very positive results Hope this becomes a trend!

elk,
I understand what you are saying and I agree from that prospective. What I was referring to is, I would like to see the Division held accountable or any agency or even private entity on results regarding the growth of our herds. Its too easy to try and then just continue to except excuses.

Make trying something worth accomplishing and it would amazing everyone how much more successful the tries are.

 

[2lumpy]

It does. Maddeningly so, most times!

It begs the question, however...

We started the expo tag program in 2007, correct? I'll just pick one of the organizations involved, but how much have they made off the expo tag program since 2007?

This seems like an issue a "conservation" organization that has been awarded millions upon millions of dollars entirely off the public teet would be anxious to be involved with. But I'm just a guy on the internet, so what do I know?

You are absolutely correct. In fact…… if it won’t hurt your feeling too much…..I’ll share a little unprotected secret with you…… there are two test cheat grass treatment projects that are already two years old, one near Fountain Green and another south of the town of Beaver. Using the product the jims has been using in Colorado. I’ve drove over to see the Beaver project last spring. Never have been to the one by Fountain Green. As I recall, both projects were partially funded by none other than…….. you guessed it, MDF and SWF.

Imagine that Vinalla. But don’t weaken….. they have done other conservation projects before this one and it hasn’t soften your resolve. Beside, a little criticism is healthy, right? Keeps them looking over their shoulder, so to speak.

Oh, I forgot to mention, the bureaucrats are running project, so……

 

[wstrntines]

I wonder what the side effects are if the stuff is ingested by animals. Any testing done on the herbicide concerning it's safety?

There probably from Monsanto it’s safe fda approved poison no need to worry it’ll probably just give you cancer.

 

[Betterluckythangood]

This is good news. Thank You to whoever put the wheels in motion and is contributing

 

[grizzly]

This seems like an issue a "conservation" organization that has been awarded millions upon millions of dollars entirely off the public teet would be anxious to be involved with. But I'm just a guy on the internet, so what do I know?

I think the christened term is knucklehead

 

[2lumpy]

This is good news so Thank You to whoever put the wheels in motion and is contributing

Some of the evil Expo revenue may have gone into the Utah cheat grass project……. at least the ones in FG and Beaver but don’t let that influence you in anyway.

 

[wstrntines]

Hopefully this does work and helps grow more deer on the landscape.

 

[Vanilla]

Some of the evil Expo revenue may have gone into the Utah cheat grass project……. at least the ones in FG and Beaver but don’t let that influence you in anyway.

I get what you’re saying lump, but you are talking peanuts compared to what they’ve pulled from the 100% public resources they benefit from.

I have no doubt that good things have happened, but if the “conservation” organizations that have been handed millions upon millions of dollars to do just this type of stuff haven’t been pushing that for a long time, then who was supposed to? Is not that what conservation is? Or do I have this all wrong?

 

[elkassassin]

And How Many years Ago Should We Have Been Doing This?

We Decided To Waste Money On RAILING/CHAINING!

It Failed!

We Killed The Sage Brush!

Bad Move There!

We Had Controlled Burns!

Some Of Them Failed!

We Cut Down Alot Of P/J Trees!

Anybody Know If That Done Anything Positive?

 

[2lumpy]

I get what you’re saying lump, but you are talking peanuts compared to what they’ve pulled from the 100% public resources they benefit from.

I have no doubt that good things have happened, but if the “conservation” organizations that have been handed millions upon millions of dollars to do just this type of stuff haven’t been pushing that for a long time, then who was supposed to? Is not that what conservation is? Or do I have this all wrong?

It is peanuts….. but so is each participants. $5 a gamble. Not exactly sticking the knife in very deep, is it. Of course, the unspoken revenue from gate recipes is where big dollars come from. The gate revenue is peanuts too, per individual. Collectively however it adds up to those millions your referring to.

The two cheat grass projects are in fact peanuts, as you say, but the collective projects aren’t peanuts. And that’s the magic, huh? Peanut are collectively worth millions, both coming in and going out.

Now then, if these cheat grass projects prove effective I would, like you, hope to see much larger treatments and would expect the conservation groups will not only help pay for those but will also, wisely, use those Expo revenues to leverage much larger dollars and treatments by matching State and Federal dollars that will be made available. Without matching millions we would loose otherwise available millions of dollars coming from other sources.

Long live the Expo.

 

[notdonhunting]

I know a guy that is one of the main go too duster's here in the mountain west.
He has made a gob of money in Wyoming and Utah from spraying these products and reseeding out of his planes and helicopters on private property and state lands.
Last I talked to him he said the BLM was not letting them spray these products but had several treated test sites and was getting close to allowing treatment on BLM.
I will reach out to him and try and get some information.

 

[notdonhunting]

And How Many years Ago Should We Have Been Doing This?

We Decided To Waste Money On RAILING/CHAINING!

It Failed!

We Killed The Sage Brush!

Bad Move There!

We Had Controlled Burns!

Some Of Them Failed!

We Cut Down Alot Of P/J Trees!

Anybody Know If That Done Anything Positive?

This duster that I know told me the problem in the past whenever there was a chaining project or after fires the controlling jurisdiction would plant one of the popular rye grass (crested wheat grass) and it would grow so thick and tall that browse was not allowed to get started, now they plant a fescue grass which is not as dominant as the rye grasses, a lot more success with browse growth.

 

[jims]

I noticed a couple cheatgrass posts above.

With all of the concern about mule deer across the West, I've considered starting a new post with updates from some of the long-term cheatgrass projects we've been working on. We are 7+ years after cheatgrass treatment in some of the earliest large-scale treated sites and they still look fantastic! These were conducted on multiple sites with detailed monitoring of browse and native species response to cheatgrass control.

We compared multiple sites to adjacent similar areas that weren't treated. We've kept tight tabs by geo-referencing rare and concern native plant species. Along with the long-term vegetation monitoring, we have also been monitoring mule deer, elk, small mammal, pollinator, and bird responses to these long-term treatments. There are striking beneficial differences!

Some of the areas where we controlled cheatgrass have since burned by wildfire and prescribed burns. It's amazing to see desirable mosaic rather than intense burns on sites where dense cheatgrass has been controlled. If you have devastating wildfires in your area, it is definitely something to consider!

If anyone is interested, I would be glad to share some of these long-term results. I would also be more than willing to take anyone interested in personal field tours out in the field to see with their own eyes the positive changes that have taken place! I have devoted an amazing amount of time and effort to these projects and really enjoy getting the word out to other land managers that are willing to put in the work it takes to make a difference!

We can talk about this stuff all day but what ultimately is important is long-term results from effect projects that benefit wildlife!

 

[tailchasers]

CPW has started using this in NW Colorado recently. Impressive results with regrowth of dormant or repressed native grasses and Forbes.

 

[slamdunk]

It is peanuts….. but so is each participants. $5 a gamble. Not exactly sticking the knife in very deep, is it. Of course, the unspoken revenue from gate recipes is where big dollars come from. The gate revenue is peanuts too, per individual. Collectively however it adds up to those millions your referring to.

The two cheat grass projects are in fact peanuts, as you say, but the collective projects aren’t peanuts. And that’s the magic, huh? Peanut are collectively worth millions, both coming in and going out.

Now then, if these cheat grass projects prove effective I would, like you, hope to see much larger treatments and would expect the conservation groups will not only help pay for those but will also, wisely, use those Expo revenues to leverage much larger dollars and treatments by matching State and Federal dollars that will be made available. Without matching millions we would loose otherwise available millions of dollars coming from other sources.

Long live the Expo.

Exactly why the BLM & USFS just partnered with MDF (and only them) to supplement an additional $65 million dollars on habitat projects across the west.

 

[SS!]

Exactly why the BLM & USFS just partnered with MDF (and only them) to supplement an additional $65 million dollars on habitat projects across the west.

Almost 50 posts in. Isn’t it timed for your ADHD to start a new thread?

 

[Vanilla]

Home boy is obsessed!

 

[hossblur]

I say have the precedes from the Expo buy 3 more of these planes and lets spray more and more and buy more and more planes. Lets nip this in the arse ASAP!!!

To be fair, I watched The Don testify at the cam WB meeting. The $fw crowd has a bunch of jets, they don't need proof planes

 

[hossblur]

Home boy is obsessed!

That pipeline money must roll in end of month with the welfare money.

Little feller has to ration the hippy lettuce 29 more days till "payday".

Makes him cranky

 

[SS!]

That pipeline money must roll in end of month with the welfare money.

Little feller has to ration the hippy lettuce 29 more days till "payday".

Makes him cranky

A drywaller trying to give someone chit about drug use? Laughin'

Almost as foolish as using the word war to describe spraying an isolated area for cheatgrass. Oh chit thats right you utards add a space to it, cheat grass.

 

[hossblur]

A drywaller trying to give someone chit about drug use? Laughin'

Almost as foolish as using the word war to describe spraying an isolated area for cheatgrass. Oh chit thats right you utards add a space to it, cheat grass.

See, cranky.

Couple more weeks.

 

[kittykiller]

Here in northeastern Nevada, BLM and NDOW restoration biologists have been spraying burned areas with a pre-emergent herbicide called imazapic for many years. It seems to work pretty well and virtually eliminates cheatgrass and other annual grasses and forbs for at least a few years. From what I've seen, about a year or so after areas are sprayed, those same areas are typically reseeded with a perennial plant species mix. I went on a tour a few months ago with the area 7 mule deer working group and some of the areas that were sprayed were highlighted and looked pretty amazing, virtually no cheatgrass at all.

 

[SS!]

Hope all you guys stay safe there in Utah with the WAR going on. We need to redirect those funds from Ukraine to UT.

 

[MrShane]

Our EXPO model is so fantastic at growing Mule Deer I’m SURE all other states with Mule Deer problems are dying to start their own EXPO program!
‘EXPO’, coming to YOUR state soon!!

 

[2lumpy]

Our EXPO model is so fantastic at growing Mule Deer I’m SURE all other states with Mule Deer problems are dying to start their own EXPO program!
‘EXPO’, coming to YOUR state soon!!

I rest my case…….

 

[wstrntines]

Our EXPO model is so fantastic at growing Mule Deer I’m SURE all other states with Mule Deer problems are dying to start their own EXPO program!
‘EXPO’, coming to YOUR state soon!!

I wish other states would have an expo. It would be great if the 5 dollar tag was resident only.

 

[2lumpy]

I wish other states would have an expo. It would be great if the 5 dollar tag was resident only.

Nah…… the non-resident bring a lot of dollar they spend besides the $5 fee they pay to gamble with us. Their impact is very significant and the number of animals they harvest from the Expo draws are hardly measurable, in the big picture. Utah gives them a little, they repay us handsomely.

And ya know, they go back home, work hard, in their own State, and come back again next year and leave that hard earned money here again…… over and over. Crazy good, in my opinion.

I’m one of many who think a same sacrifice, with small risk to my pocket book, that might well pay a major return….. is worth giving some peanuts to.

 

[MrShane]

Nah…… the non-resident bring a lot of dollar they spend besides the $5 fee they pay to gamble with us. Their impact is very significant and the number of animals they harvest from the Expo draws are hardly measurable, in the big picture. Utah gives them a little, they repay us handsomely.

And ya know, they go back home, work hard, in their own State, and come back again next year and leave that hard earned money here again…… over and over. Crazy good, in my opinion.

I’m one of many who think a same sacrifice, with small risk to my pocket book, that might well pay a major return….. is worth giving some peanuts to.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a ‘major return’, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a ‘highest bidder buys an animal’ sport.

 

[elkassassin]

And It's The Only Legal Gambling In The State!

So Most DRATS Are Gonna Play!

Guess I Should Say: PEAY To Play!

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a ‘major return’, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a ‘highest bidder buys an animal’ sport.

 

[2lumpy]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a ‘major return’, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a ‘highest bidder buys an animal’ sport.

It’s all good, I’m used to disagreements…
Pretty much defines my life MrShane. All the best my friend.

 

[slamdunk]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.
If it truly was a ‘major return’, I guarantee all the other Muley states would have the same format.
Especially the legalized gambling states!
We Utahns got bamboozled by tall stories and glitter in to surrendering our precious tags out of our general pool available to us all on an equal basis.
Those that are dumping money at the Expo truly are helping turn hunting in to a ‘highest bidder buys an animal’ sport.

Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.
We had over 30k patrons attend the 2023 SLC Expo.

I can't see 10k+ people going to Albuquerque NM, Cheyenne WY, Boise ID, Phoenix AZ or Billings MT.
Maybe 10k in Denver CO or Reno NV.....maybe.
Just depends on guidelines and rules another state may require in lieu of tags offered.

SLC UT is centralized, has a multi million census, plenty of accommodations for thousands of people and home of the two Conservation Hosts.

 

[SS!]

Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.
We had over 30k patrons attend the 2023 SLC Expo.

I can't see 10k+ people going to Albuquerque NM, Cheyenne WY, Boise ID, Phoenix AZ or Billings MT.
Maybe 10k in Denver CO or Reno NV.....maybe.
Just depends on guidelines and rules another state may require in lieu of tags offered.

SLC UT is centralized, has a multi million census, plenty of accommodations for thousands of people and home of the two Conservation Hosts.

Cliffnotes version : Slamdunk drinks the kool aid.

 

[2lumpy]

Cliffnotes version : Slamdunk drinks the kool aid.

Not all Muley States could live up to the requirements set forth by our DNR, such as a guarantee of a minimum of 10k patrons must attend the event.
We had over 30k patrons attend the 2023 SLC Expo.

I can't see 10k+ people going to Albuquerque NM, Cheyenne WY, Boise ID, Phoenix AZ or Billings MT.
Maybe 10k in Denver CO or Reno NV.....maybe.
Just depends on guidelines and rules another state may require in lieu of tags offered.

SLC UT is centralized, has a multi million census, plenty of accommodations for thousands of people and home of the two Conservation Hosts.

I’m pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but where’s the koolaid.

 

[slamdunk]

I’m pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but where’s the koolaid.

No need bothering to answer that AK moron, it's time spent you'll never get back.

 

[SS!]

I’m pretty dense when it comes to things like this, I see speculation but where’s the koolaid.

Slamdud is an expo groupie. He believes it actually is a net positive for conservation

 

[SS!]

No need bothering to answer that AK moron, it's time spent you'll never get back.

Translation: my feelings are hurt because he calls out my BS

 

[2lumpy]

Translation: my feelings are hurt because he calls out my BS

Well………. we all can call each other out…… but when I agree I’m willing to say I do. A spade is a spade….. coming or going. I only keep a couple rocks in my pocket.

 

[slamdunk]

Slamdud is an expo groupie. He believes it actually is a net positive for conservation

Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.
I'll give you a full day to post your proof, but I'm 100% confident that's a full day too much and a complete waste of time because you can't.

In the mean time, I can bury you with information on my side of the isle, but it's already transparent with less time invested than you wasting time spewing more of that BS.

In the meantime, tell us again what YOU DO for wildlife and Conservation?
Oh ya, you sent $35 to RMEF, got a free knife and put $1 of your Alaskan dollars towards elk in Pennsylvania that you'll never even see 🎖

 

[woodruffhunter]

Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.
I'll give you a full day to post your proof, but I'm 100% confident that's a full day too much and a complete waste of time because you can't.

In the mean time, I can bury you with information on my side of the isle, but it's already transparent with less time invested than you wasting time spewing more of that BS.

In the meantime, tell us again what YOU DO for wildlife and Conservation?
Oh ya, you sent $35 to RMEF, got a free knife and put $1 of your Alaskan dollars towards elk in Pennsylvania that you'll never even see 🎖

Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).

 

[elkassassin]

Hey woodruff!

We All gotta Pay Our Tithing One Way Or Another!

Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).

 

[slamdunk]

Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).

Then he can show us, just like I can show you where expo dollars go.
Is he out doing the work with his $35?
I am....

For the record, I am not dogging on RMEF, I am a $35 member there as well.

My point is this-
I'm calling SS out to prove his assumptions about MDF and his conspiracy theory, while providing facts about his group that he praises.

 

[SS!]

Well genius and king of unsubstantiated speculation, go ahead and post your "net negatives for conservation" documents and I'll resign from my MDF duties and take up needlepoint.
I'll give you a full day to post your proof, but I'm 100% confident that's a full day too much and a complete waste of time because you can't.

In the mean time, I can bury you with information on my side of the isle, but it's already transparent with less time invested than you wasting time spewing more of that BS.

In the meantime, tell us again what YOU DO for wildlife and Conservation?
Oh ya, you sent $35 to RMEF, got a free knife and put $1 of your Alaskan dollars towards elk in Pennsylvania that you'll never even see 🎖

Well looks like I struck a nerve with the expo groupie. And now this groupie is trying to act like one of the rock stars and make demands? You're just a groupie, you can't make demands. You will be used, abused and thrown aside.

Answer my questions to you in this thread first and then I will answer yours.

Are Mule Deer Going Extinct? | Mule Deer

So I might not be crazy to think predators are a big reason why the deer herds can't recover. In one area I've scouted for the past seven years. I've seen a lot of 170"+ bucks and a few 200" class but it's gone downhill real fast the past three years. This year between my 11 cameras and out...

www.monstermuleys.info

You are disrespectful to so many members here. Someone took the time to give you a bunch of cheatgrass info and your short attention span ignored it and then a week later started a new thread. I'm shocked you're still posting on this one. You get upset if someone posts an opinion or an observation that is different than yours.

I won't hold my breath for you to answer my questions from last week. You always run away, on here and in your personal life.

 

[SS!]

Who is to say that $35 dollars that he sent to RMEF, does not do more than the $300-$400 dollars I burn at the Expo? At this point, I do not see that it does. Maybe I am wrong (I hope that I am).

Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?

Utah Division of Wildlife under fire for possible corruption

Was the permit distributor for the annual hunting expo rigged?

www.gohunt.com

Can't wait to be buried with that when the documents are posted by Slamdunk. If the expo is really about raising money for conservation why wouldn't you let RMEF run it and give 100% back?

oh thats right, it was never about conservation in the first place

Edited to add link.

 

[SS!]

Then he can show us, just like I can show you where expo dollars go.
Is he out doing the work with his $35?
I am....View attachment 129288

Classic. Everyone has done that. Next post up removing barb wire fence. Or how about doing winterkill counts? Or helping with the cedar removal on winter range? Been there done that got the t shirt.

I do like the pic. Always laughed at how much time people spent taking pics doing that. LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME IM HELPING IN CONSERVATION.

Do you want a pat on the back?

 

[Vanilla]

Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?

I remember this very well. $3.50 more per applicant could be going to conservation. Instead it is going to "administrative costs."

If my math is correct, there were 435,914 individual applications submitted at the hunt expo last year* at $5 per application. That equals $1,525,699 that was absorbed in "administrative costs" versus going to "conservation" in one year alone. Add that up over a decade and we are talking over $15 million. That seems substantial.

*Source: https://huntexpo.com/2023-draw-application-statistics/

 

[slamdunk]

Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?

Utah Division of Wildlife under fire for possible corruption

Was the permit distributor for the annual hunting expo rigged?

www.gohunt.com

Can't wait to be buried with that when the documents are posted by Slamdunk. If the expo is really about raising money for conservation why wouldn't you let RMEF run it and give 100% back?

oh thats right, it was never about conservation in the first place

Edited to add link.

Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract

 

[SS!]

Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract

I’m tied up at work today. Can you post a link explaining this? Or PM me. Thanks!

 

[Robiland]

Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract

OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.

IN FACT.........when all the bids were supposed to be turned in by law by statute outlined in the rules, there was only 1 bid turned in on Sept 15th (if my memory of the dates serves my correct) by 5 pm. Any guess whos that was? No, it was not SFW or MDF. There was 1 bid turned in on time by deadline outlined in the administrative rules. ONLY ONE! Yep, it was RMEF!!!
Everything they had outlined per rules was checked off. Everything. That was when DWR and SFW/MDF did an "OH SHI!" moment. Thats when people had to start to get out of bed, if you know what I mean!!!! Because they were all in bed with one another!

 

[woodruffhunter]

Great point. Do you remember when RMEF bid on the expo and was going to give 100% of the funds raised back to conservation? The "other guys" didn't even get their bid in at the deadline, still take their % and ended up with the contract?

Utah Division of Wildlife under fire for possible corruption

Was the permit distributor for the annual hunting expo rigged?

www.gohunt.com

Can't wait to be buried with that when the documents are posted by Slamdunk. If the expo is really about raising money for conservation why wouldn't you let RMEF run it and give 100% back?

oh thats right, it was never about conservation in the first place

Edited to add link.

I remember it. Although I do not remember the exact details, I believe that they (RMEF) were not even considered. Given RMEF's track record, they should have absolutey been considered.

 

[Vanilla]

Ooooh yes, I remember this incident well.
RMEF didn't have a required partner as outlined in the legal contract

I'm not sure I'd die on this hill with that info, slam.

The biggest criticism of RMEF bid from the powers that be was that they didn't have a reliable partner to run the expo tag draw. Any guesses on who they proposed to run the expo draw? Yep, you guessed it...the folks that run Utah's main draw in Fallon, NV!

They were knocked points because they proposed using the group in Fallon instead of a dude in his mom's basement. Odd deal, for sure!

And one that costs "conservation" over $15 million every decade.

 

[SS!]

OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.

IN FACT.........when all the bids were supposed to be turned in by law by statute outlined in the rules, there was only 1 bid turned in on Sept 15th (if my memory of the dates serves my correct) by 5 pm. Any guess whos that was? No, it was not SFW or MDF. There was 1 bid turned in on time by deadline outlined in the administrative rules. ONLY ONE! Yep, it was RMEF!!!
Everything they had outlined per rules was checked off. Everything. That was when DWR and SFW/MDF did an "OH SHI!" moment. Thats when people had to start to get out of bed, if you know what I mean!!!! Because they were all in bed with one another!

Thanks for sharing that Robiland. I'll wait to hear from @slamdunk because he has enough documents to bury me. But I can't find the one hes claiming where RMEF wasn't qualified. Not saying it isn't there, but google brings up a lot of BS.

I do appreciate the information you all have shared on it. While I'm not anti expo I believe there is a lot of change that could happen to benefit the residents of utah first and foremost and provide more money for conservation.

 

[slamdunk]

I mean, we could go tit for tat all day long about this.
It's all on the DNR page, including the scoring and investigation.

 

[slamdunk]

OH BOY, lets not go there Slam. We all know that whole thing was BS. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it. Hawkeye on here, Jason, is my brother in law and was the lawyer that did all the work for free for RMEF. They had everything done.

IN FACT.........when all the bids were supposed to be turned in by law by statute outlined in the rules, there was only 1 bid turned in on Sept 15th (if my memory of the dates serves my correct) by 5 pm. Any guess whos that was? No, it was not SFW or MDF. There was 1 bid turned in on time by deadline outlined in the administrative rules. ONLY ONE! Yep, it was RMEF!!!
Everything they had outlined per rules was checked off. Everything. That was when DWR and SFW/MDF did an "OH SHI!" moment. Thats when people had to start to get out of bed, if you know what I mean!!!! Because they were all in bed with one another!

I won't die on the hill with that, there are other factors as well.
But I do know they did not have a partner lined up which is a requirement.

 

[SS!]

I mean, we could go tit for tat all day long about this.
It's all on the DNR page, including the scoring and investigation.
View attachment 129309

It doesn't say anywhere what you claimed that RMEF was not qualified? If its all on the DNR page please show us where their application didn't meet the qualifications?

Please provide links not screenshots. Where are you getting this Q23 from?

You know what happens on bid day if your bid is late? Its void. No exceptions. Thats why there is a deadline. Same with draw applications, etc.

Looking forward to the provided documentation that the RMEF proposal did not meet the qualifications.

Thank you Slamdunk. I appreciate your time on this.

 

[SS!]

I won't die on the hill with that, there are other factors as well.
But I do know they did not have a partner lined up which is a requirement.

Please provide link. Thank you!

 

[Robiland]

I mean, we could go tit for tat all day long about this.
It's all on the DNR page, including the scoring and investigation.
View attachment 129309

Slam... that was all BS and you know it. They were to use the EXACT SAME company the DWR used to process the cards. PLUS, they did contract with a credit card company since they did not have the bid, and that was explained in the bid.

But please do explain to us about the bid process and how that came about? Why was there a bidding process? The rules showed that there was only 1 bid turned in by deadline!!!

And the funny thing, they didnt even state the rules of the NEW BIDDING process until the OH **** moment happened. And then, they made all the rules in favor of SFW/MDF and what they had done. I believe one of the requirements was to host an Expo in the past in Utah, right? Well, there was only one that has done that. So that should have not been a point to be made. But since RMEF had over 100,000 attendees (AT THE TIME) to their national conventions they were willing to bring that to Utah. At the time is was over 4X more attendees than the Expo in Utah. But for some reason that was not important. Since it was all about $$$ for Conservation, right?

 

[slamdunk]

 

[Robiland]

All this shows how biased the process and the RFP was and like mentioned before, NONE of this should have been since SFW did not turn in a bid by the deadline shown in the rules set by the DWR, which was Sept 15 by 5pm.

And, just a small reminder, they didnt even change that rule/rfp process in their own rules until the next spring. They had to have a meeting to change it. LOL, again, no biased here. No sleeping in beds with one another. No back room deals here. It was all on the up and up! Right?

 

[FarmerDan]

I hope they decide to do some spraying in northeastern Utah. The drone does a great job!

 

[elkhunterUT]

View attachment 129318View attachment 129319View attachment 129320View attachment 129321View attachment 129322View attachment 129323View attachment 129324

Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.

Using documentation from the DWR to show/explain why they awarded SFW over RMEF is akin to asking Bill Clinton if he slept with Monica Lewinsky. No way in hades you are getting the straight answer!!

 

[elkassassin]

The RMEF Is Supporting The NFR This Year!

The Issue I Have With The RMEF Is:

BC Shows up At The WB Meetings And Says:

The RMEF Agrees With Every & All Changes Recommended!

Not All Changes Are Good Nor Should All Recommended Changes Be Made!

JFP!

 

[SS!]

Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.

Using documentation from the DWR to show/explain why they awarded SFW over RMEF is akin to asking Bill Clinton if he slept with Monica Lewinsky. No way in hades you are getting the straight answer!!

Groupies are a dedicated bunch. I’m pretty sure I saw slammy on the auction floor one night at the expo. If not it was his doppelgänger…

 

[slamdunk]

Slam - I would concede on this one. You are out over your skis on this issue and EVERYONE here knows it. Not awarding RMEF was a complete SHAM of the highest order.

Using documentation from the DWR to show/explain why they awarded SFW over RMEF is akin to asking Bill Clinton if he slept with Monica Lewinsky. No way in hades you are getting the straight answer!!

Ok ok I'll bow out and with great respect to all my comrades here on MM.
Let the conspiracy theories live on

 

[SS!]

New thread coming in 5…4…..3…….

 

[slamdunk]

The RMEF Is Supporting The NFR This Year!

The Issue I Have With The RMEF Is:

BC Shows up At The WB Meetings And Says:

The RMEF Agrees With Every & All Changes Recommended!

Not All Changes Are Good Nor Should All Recommended Changes Be Made!

JFP!

World series of Team Roping partnered with MDF beginning last year.
Cowboys are wildlife enthusiasts as well

 

[grizzly]

View attachment 129318View attachment 129319View attachment 129320View attachment 129321View attachment 129322View attachment 129323View attachment 129324

This is literally called a "Justification Statement" it was never meant to be an independent audit of the DWR's actions.

DWR established the RFP, invented the scoring system, ignored their own RFP, and then scored the noncompliant application using the scoring system they established and justified themselves and their actions after the fact.

I don't see how a fair-minded individual can sit well with that.