12 year olds can hunt

[ultimateshedfreak]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-07 AT 01:49PM (MST)[p]i looked at the utahs dwr website earlier this morning and it says that the permits costs were lower and some highered but it also said that 12 years and older can hunt big game and not just antlerless but everything thought i would let people know if they didnt already.

 

[Michiganboy]

I noticed that earlier today, To bad It wasnt 4 years ago when I was 12. Hopefully we will see some younger hunters this year out in the woods.

 

[bbentley392t]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-07 AT 01:54PM (MST)[p]How goes it,
I wouldn't get really excited about the age requirement change...the only thing that is going to come from this besides less deer for everyone else...is a lot of wounded animals. A 12 year old with a 30-06 or a .270, doesn't strike me as safe & smart.

STICK-FLICKER...Silent, But Deadly
-Buckhorn Archers (Castle Dale, UT)
-Timpanogos Archers (Orem, UT)
-Hell Hole Archers (Big Piney, WY)
[email protected]

 

[MortgageMan]

I'm extremely excited for it and I don't even have kids.

bbentley, it sounds to me like you were taught completely wrong or you are a relatively new hunter with little experience yourself. I know 12 years olds that can shoot straighter and safer than most adults. Go on the general rifle deer hunt and I am sure you will see my point. 12 years olds have been able to hunt waterfowl for years with a shotgun. I do not recall the last incident where a 12 year old accidentally shot someone (I could be wrong,but I don't remember it). I see alot of adults hunting deer while drinking. I doubt you will see a 12 year old hunting while intoxicated. The kids are the future of hunting. If we teach them the right way to hunt safe, there is no doubt they are as safe as adults IMO.

 

[bbentley392t]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-07 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]How goes it Mr. Mortgage,
Why is it that by reading a single, 3-scentence long opinion...you think that you can automatically assume that the way I was taught to hunt, the methods of hunting I use, and my past experiences and skill...are of novice proportions? I'm not doubting the caliber of shots that some 12 year old kids are...not once did I say that all 12 year olds were a bad shot, did I? Just like your comment...some adults drink & hunt, but do I, do you? NO! Not every hunter is the typical, mullet sporting/redneck alcoholic like we are sterotyped as. The same goes for the 12 year old's situation...I never meant for my post to sound as though all 12 year olds were horrible shots, because they're not. Would you agree with me that a 16 year old who just barely got their drivers liscence is probably not the safest driver on the road...? Same concept with the 12 year olds and a deer tag! The only point I was trying to make is that I'm just a little worried about the amount of in-experienced hunters that will be in the field this fall. I'm strictly an Archery Hunter...so I don't have to worry about sharing the forest with a 12 year old packing a high powered 300 mag or something. But a 12 year old with a bow scares me even more...how many deer are wounded during the archery hunt every year? I don't know either, but it's a high number. Now that number is going to increase dramatically if those 12 year old's choose to archery hunt over rifle hunt. Archery is tough enough as it is, even for experienced adults...but throw a 7th grader into the mix with a 45lb. bow and watch how many more deer get shot, run off and die and never be recovered.

Look...I'm not trying to start a fire here, but maybe I already have. That's what this chat room is all about...voicing and debating opinions. All I'm trying to say is this...When the DWR does thier evaluations and herd counts at the end of the year and they are shocked to find and can't figure out why the deer population is so low...it's because of the amount of new hunters that wouldn't have normally been there before this new law was placed into effect. Utah's deer herd is just barely starting to re-cooperate and produce some decent bucks. It's not nearly as good as Wyoming & Colorado...but that's a whole different argument altogether. So why is the state of Utah bringing in more hunters to decimate the population just when it's starting to do good? Maybe I should've kept my original statement to myself...but I didn't. I'm just dying to see the looks and questions that the DWR has when it realizes the giant mistake they made by allowing 12 year olds to hunt. This is the west...it's not Alabama and Georgia. The deer population in those states is absolutley out of control and therefore that's why 12 year olds are allowed to hunt...and also allowed to harvest 1 buck & 1 doe every day for the length of the season! Our situation in Utah is not the same...so why does the state want to kill off all of our deer by bringing thousands of more hunters?

I aplogize if what I have and just said upsets you...but I can't change my opinion or yours. I hope to have afriendly conversation with you soon. Later, bbentley392t

STICK-FLICKER...Silent, But Deadly
-Buckhorn Archers (Castle Dale, UT)
-Timpanogos Archers (Orem, UT)
-Hell Hole Archers (Big Piney, WY)
[email protected]

 

[MortgageMan]

bbentley - My conversations are always friendly and your opinion does not upset me. Maybe I was a little harsh in my response. I am not saying that every 12 year old can shoot as good as every adult. You are going to have hunters in both age groups that take bad shots and wound animals.

I am kind of confused as to which reason you feel they shouldn't be able to hunt or maybe it's a conglomeration of several reasons. Do you really think that they shouldn't be able to hunt because we don't have as much deer as they have in Alabama and Georgia? Or is it that they aren't very ggod shots?I don't think it's fair to set an age limit on hunters based upon how many deer are in the state. I feel like that is what tag allocation is for. To allocate tags according to how many deer we have. If every youth decides they want to hunt then we need to go back to the drawing board and allocate tags to youth accordingly. I do not know first had but I would expect that youth are taken into account when we allocate tags? Maybe someone on here with more knowledge of that will help us out.

Like I mentioned before. This is my opinion and obviously you have yours. I am always up for a friendly discussion. Have a good one.

 

[bbentley392t]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-07 AT 03:18PM (MST)[p]Round 3...ding,ding,ding...
Alright, now that I've said everything that I wanted to concerning my feelings towards the 12 year olds...maybe I can calm down and speak as a civilized person, without any un-just animosity.

Maybe the solution lies somewhere that we haven't thought of,or looked to discuss yet. A solution would be a lot easier to come about if you guys didn't have people like me who are on the opposing side...making things difficult. Sorry that I appear to be a jerk...In all reality, I'm really not and I try extremely hard not to be. Here are a couple of my ideas...

(1) Revert back to the mid 70's & early 80's when the legal hunting age was 16...that way all of the youth would have that much more time to practice on their shooting, tracking, and basic hunting skills while they tagged along with thier fathers. Observing their habits and traits, hopefully good ones.

(2) Designate a certain unit or area for the youth hunters between the ages of 12 and 16 to hunt in. They along with their adult supervisor...if they choose to do so (Father, Grandfather, Older Brother, etc...) would be allowed to hunt that limited area only. Therefore seperating the in-experienced youth from the rest of the hunting field.

(3) Revoke the clause in the Proclamation allowing all hunters under the age of 18 to be able to hunt all 3 seasons until they harvest an animal. Simply because if a youth hits and wounds an animal once in every season...that's 3 deer (per youth) that could've been harvested by someone else...who's family was struggling and desperatley needed the extra meat in the freezer. Every hunter should be allowed one season and one season only...bottom line.

(4) Allow fewer tags than previously before. If there are less hunters in the field...the less deer that will be potentially wounded. Yeah...not drawing a tag every year would suck, but it might be the only way to preserve the deer herds.

(5) And finally...the one that is going to upset people the most. If the deer herd numbers continue to dwindle the way that they have been...the DWR might be forced to close the general season hunts all together for a few years. I don't like the thought of it either, but it might be the one of the only choices we have if it comes to that point. I love to hunt as much as the next guy...youth or adult. But I would rather go without a hunt for a few years now, than not be able to in the future. But you know just as well as I do, that it will never happen...for the same reason that they're allowing the 12 year olds to hunt, it all boils down to one thing. MONEY! The more tags the state sells, the more money they make. The state doesn't care about our deer herds...all they care about is their checking account!

Anyways...I hope I wasn't as rude just now as I was earlier. I sincerely believe that one if not a coulpe if my ideas would work...I know they would. I'm looking forward to your response, I hope I cleaned the slate between us just a little bit. Later...bbentley.

STICK-FLICKER...Silent, But Deadly
-Buckhorn Archers (Castle Dale, UT)
-Timpanogos Archers (Orem, UT)
-Hell Hole Archers (Big Piney, WY)
[email protected]

 

[slamdunk]

Geeez, a couple of UFC guys on here, glad ya made ammends somewhat!
Mr.Bentley, are you the Bentley that works in the Hospital?

Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[MortgageMan]

bbentley - Round three??

You have not got me fired up enough to even consider this a fight. I have thicker skin that. LOL

These are the problems that I see:

""""""(1) Revert back to the mid 70's & early 80's when the legal hunting age was 16...that way all of the youth would have that much more time to practice on their shooting, tracking, and basic hunting skills while they tagged along with thier fathers. Observing their habits and traits, hopefully good ones."""""""

This is not even an option. Back in the 70's and 80's it did not take 10 bonus points to draw a deer or elk tag. You could hunt all 3 hunts and there were no regions. There are more hunters now, both resident and non-resident that make this not an option.



(2) Designate a certain unit or area for the youth hunters between the ages of 12 and 16 to hunt in. They along with their adult supervisor...if they choose to do so (Father, Grandfather, Older Brother, etc...) would be allowed to hunt that limited area only. Therefore seperating the in-experienced youth from the rest of the hunting field.


If they are paying the same price and using the same weapons why shouldn't they be able to hunt the same area?



(3) Revoke the clause in the Proclamation allowing all hunters under the age of 18 to be able to hunt all 3 seasons until they harvest an animal. Simply because if a youth hits and wounds an animal once in every season...that's 3 deer (per youth) that could've been harvested by someone else...who's family was struggling and desperatley needed the extra meat in the freezer. Every hunter should be allowed one season and one season only...bottom line.


I thought you wanted it just like it was in the 70's and 80's??


(4) Allow fewer tags than previously before. If there are less hunters in the field...the less deer that will be potentially wounded. Yeah...not drawing a tag every year would suck, but it might be the only way to preserve the deer herds.


I agree with this one completely. But there are plenty of opportunists that think they should be able to kill big bucks and bulls every year. Right Bessy???


5) And finally...the one that is going to upset people the most. If the deer herd numbers continue to dwindle the way that they have been...the DWR might be forced to close the general season hunts all together for a few years. I don't like the thought of it either, but it might be the one of the only choices we have if it comes to that point. I love to hunt as much as the next guy...youth or adult. But I would rather go without a hunt for a few years now, than not be able to in the future. But you know just as well as I do, that it will never happen...for the same reason that they're allowing the 12 year olds to hunt, it all boils down to one thing. MONEY! The more tags the state sells, the more money they make. The state doesn't care about our deer herds...all they care about is their checking account!



Exactly right. It will never happen. Too much loss in revenue.


From what I've noticed on MM, most everyone is fine with others opinions (sort of). As long as you don't attack them personally. You may not like my opinion and I may not like yours. But we are all hunters working towards a common goal. We just see different ways of getting there. The slate is clean. I have a couple ideas as well and I will try and post them as soon as I get back from coaching little league football.

Later,

Bud

 

[bbentley392t]

How goes it Mr. Mortgage,
You're right...I did contradict myself in there with the 70's & 80's thing. Like I said before...those were just ideas, nothing that I support whole heartedly. I'm not trying to gather a band of hunters together and start a revolution against the DWR or something like that...just a couple of thoughts that I had. Yes, they're not perfect ideas...they need some tweaking and amending...but some of them could work with the correct stipulations. I'd like to hear your ideas too...but maybe I should just give up and admit defaet and realize that the 12 year olds are here to saty and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. I didn't realize you were a lil'league coach...that explains your excitement for this new law. Man, don't I feel like an #@& !^%*

STICK-FLICKER...Silent, But Deadly
-Buckhorn Archers (Castle Dale, UT)
-Timpanogos Archers (Orem, UT)
-Hell Hole Archers (Big Piney, WY)
[email protected]

 

[MortgageMan]

ha ha...I just coach little league for fun, I don't have any kids playing or anything. It doesn't really have much to do with my opinion on 12 years olds hunting or not though. Never really thought about the kids I coach hunting. I have friends who have kids that age that I would have no problem hunting with. I killed my first deer when I was eight years old (2 point). One shot with a 6mm and he went down. My dad was there coaching me the whole way. I shot my first deer with a bow when I was 14. It was a 2 point, but I only shot one arrow that whole trip. I feel like being taught while I was young played a big part in my hunter safety and my ability to make clean shots. I just feel if we teach kids the right way to hunt and actually let them hunt while they are young they will be safer hunters in the long run. This is obviously just my opinion but it worked for me. Don't give up that easily, there are some very valid points that you made that I would like to here addressed by the DWR or someone on here with more knowledge on youth hunting.

1- Wounded animals (kids hunting all 3 seasons)

2- Tag allotment for youth? (are normal tags reduced for this?)


I don't know much about the youth guidelines or how the system is setup.

 

[ICHABOD]

Hello guys,
I want a shot at the title!
LOL
I have to say I agree with Mortgage on this one.
I think I would be more comfortable on the mountain with a 12 year old and his dad than with a group of 16 year olds.
End of story
Other states have shown that this is not a safety concern. In some states (NM) you can hunt big game as soon as you can pass hunter safety.
I dont agree that 12 year olds hunting will result in more wounded deer, too many tags, etc.
Tag numbers and management plans are a completely different issue.
Kids are the future of our sport. Lets welcome them with open arms.

 

[everbrownshed]

I have to agree with bentley on this one. There maybe some 12 year olds out there that are capable of hunting big game, but come on, 12? Mortgagemam has a good point of teaching young kids to be an ethical hunters but look at all the crazy idiot rednecks out there hunting, now do think it would be a good thing with their kids hunting too. I'm sorry but 12 is too young in my opinion. More than likley they will be road hunting anyways, can you imagine a 12 year old packing a 14 to 16 pound rifle around for very long or pull back a bow that would actually kill somthing "ethically".

 

[MortgageMan]

can you imagine a
>12 year old packing a
>14 to 16 pound rifle
>around for very long or
>pull back a bow that
>would actually kill somthing "ethically".


As a matter of fact Yes. This happens right now in alot of other states and I haven't read one bad thing about it.

 

[everbrownshed]

Well thats cool, good on em, in those states. So would they use a high powered rifle to take their hunter saftey test or a 22? Cause an 8 year old can shoot a 22. I think if they lower the big game to 12 then everyone that takes hunter saftey should have to pass the shooting test with whatever they are going to kill big game. And they may do that, I dont exactly know what they do these days, its been 16 years since I took hunter saftey.

 

[MortgageMan]

The hunter safety shoot is only 25 yards I think (it was when i shot it and that has been quite awhile ago as well). I wouldn't want to shoot my 300 ultra mag 50 times in 20 minutes at a target 25 yards away so I don't think a kid should have to either. That's going to beat anyway up no matter how old you are.

A twelve year old can hunt ducks right now in the state of Utah with a shotgun. Is a shotgun any less deadly than a high powered rifle at close range? If they can shoot a shotgun I think a 12 year old should be able to carry a .243 and hunt deer with his dad. Like mentioned before, I would be more afraid of a car full of 16 year olds out hunting legally with no adults than I would be afraid of a guy and his kid out hunting deer.

 

[mickeyelk]

I hate to say this but I thought all states allowed 12 years old to hunt. Haven't looked at the regulations!!! Don't have any children that age now, youngest being 28, but when they started hunting in Penna, the age was 12. Think about it, if you wait til they are 16 to hunt they may be uncontrollable and you have lost the best years to teach them the ropes. If I had started at 16 I may have listened to my friends and may never hunted. Friends, at that age, have allot of influence. I may have been caught up in football too much and missed all those memorable years of hunting. I really started to go with my father at age 8 and even shot some small game, with his assistance. Very valuable. Most children, at age 12, won't be just blasting away. They are too cautious, that is if they are taught correctly. That is the parents responsibility. The regs should say that the 12 year old has to hunt with his parents until they hit 16 at which time they can hunt with someone over the age of 18. We need recruitment of hunters now. (I read something, in the past, that the average age of a big game hunter is 47 years old.) I also believe that each state should set aside a certain amount of tags just for the under 16 year olds. Make the elk/deer tags either sex and the bucks/bulls tags limited to anter size. (I have a major problem with a child shooting a 400/200 inch animal at the age of 12. If I had done that when I was young I think my interest in hunting wouldn't be so great. What next would my goal be? May lose interest) But allow the 12 years old the chance to hunt now. If the parent is along with the 12 year old and is allowing him to blast away at game then the parent is the problem not he child. We need more hunters now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ICHABOD]

Once again,
The "safety" issue just doesnt hold water. As Mortgage said, look at the other states that that let 12 year olds (or younger) hunt big game; you just dont see safety problems. Also, most parents that take a 12 yr old on a hunt arent looking for a 200'' buck, but merely the opportunity for their youngster to "feel the excitement" of hunting. A forked horn on a kids first hunt is a trophy! Feeling that "rush" of adrenaline that still gives some of us the shakes after shooting a deer! What could be better for our kids than that? A far cry better than sending them to the mall or the arcade, or worse; looking for that "rush" elsewhere dont you think?
I also dont agree with the "more animals wounded" argument. As has been said, it all comes down to the parent. It is a parents responsibility to teach their kids about "ethical hunting" and the responsibility to track and find wounded deer. It has been my experience that a 12-13 yr old, upon hitting an animal, will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to find and tag their "trophy". I teach my kids that their hunt ends when they hit an animal--tagged or not, and there is a LOT more to hunting than pulling a trigger.
Lastly, after being a scoutmaster for about 12 yrs, I can GUARANTEE YOU that most 12 yr olds are more attentive, wanting to learn and follow the rules, and MUCH less likely to do STUPID STUFF than a 16 yr. old...GUARANTEED!!
------------------------------------------------------
"How is it that every huge buck and bull has hours of video and hundreds of pics taken of it, but an idiot breaking the law never does"?-

 

[houndsmen28]

i love that 12 year kids can hunt. becuse i'am 12

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

12 years old! One shot one kill. Packed that rifle for 2 days straight. I would hunt with her over anybody else I know and feel very safe. You guys against 12 year olds are way off base.

15 years old! One shot one kill. Packed the rifle all day. Very good shot!

11 & 14 years old! One shot one kill each! The 11 year old killed her first turkey when she was 8. It all depends on how you're raised. I've got friends that have kids that I wouldn't be caught dead on the same mountain with. Their dad never took them out before they were 12. Now he thinks he can just turn them loose on the mountain with a high powered rifle. I understand both sides of the argument.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[rmanwill]

Been that way for two years. My fourteen year old sons have been able to hunt in their home state for the last two years and tagged.

Before that I would have to take my older son out of state because Wyoming and most all of the other western states already allowed youth to hunt at twelve and even ten years of age.

They cannot put in for limited units, but can hunt general season. I see this as four years that they have to be accompanied by a adult hunter and be thought the ropes/ethics before they can be on their own.

That being said I have seen so many older hunters decide that hunting sounded fun and went out for the first time with a borrowed rifle and hardly even know what end of the rifle the bullet exited.

I see it as a positive to teach our youth at an early age and get them interested before they are to old and never give hunting a try!!

Just my opinion - not trying to ruffle any feathers!!! Happy hunting and if you get the oppurtunity to take a youth out give it a chance.

 

[longshooter338]

bbentley392t. Who the hack are you to decide how well my 12 year old son can shoot his 7mm yeah thats right 7mag oh yeah and he also shoots a bow better than most men i know so pull your head out of your back side you selfish bastadge.

 

[Wyo_Roadhunter]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-09 AT 10:05PM (MST)[p].

 

[Wyo_Roadhunter]

I think its great 12 year olds can hunt i know when i was 12 my trigger finger was itching to shoot something so we put in for nevada and i killed my first buck with a bow now i am 15 and have shot 9 deer with my bow so the whole age thing doesnt really matter it is on how much you practice. When i was 12 i won my first archery shoot cuz thats when they let us start in the club and now after that they let all kids come in and shoot no matter what age. so i think its great. Good luck to all you 12 year olds, and be safe.