12AW Late hunt

Cavalier · Dec 6, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-13 AT 04:58PM (MST)[p]So where are the reports for this hunt. It should have been a great hunt with the snow they had on top. Who's turn is it to watch Don Martin. Don, we need your report. Of course I'm assuming you had hunters in this hunt.

KennyT · Dec 6, 2013

Don did have a hunter and is hunting sheep right now. I'm sure he will post up pics and a story at some point.

Zim · Dec 6, 2013

There's another thread on this down a bit. We were camped at Jump Up Divide next to 2 outfitters. Neither one of their clients scored. Neither did my partner nor I. Best all 4 of us had in range were 170's and we all passed.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

Cavalier · Dec 7, 2013

Thanks for the replies. Almost forgot about the sheep hunt.
Zim, I gather from your camp site location that there was a good amount of snow up top.

rockymtnhunter · Dec 7, 2013

Greetings - I was w/cmbbulldog the first five days of the late season. Camped at Pine Hollow below the snow - snow was generally above 6500', lots of snow at Jacob Lake and south to the park entrance - spent one morning checking the high country to see if there were any big bucks lingering up high - no, but buried my truck & spent 2 hours digging out - many thanks to the gents who ended up pulling me out! Saw a few deer on Little Mtn. First three days were cold and windy in the low country, then it cleared out. We generally hunted low - saw lots of deer and some decent bucks, lots of rut activity the day before opening, but then the storm blew in & the rut stuff seemed to subside for a few days, then picked up. Saw one definite shooter (about 190 B&C) opening day @ 250 yards, but those big bucks don't get big by being stupid - this buck was one step from hittin' the dirt when he gave us the slip & cmb couldn't get the shot. I think some others hunters were trying to find this buck, but I think he slipped through the season unscathed. Saw outfitters & clients most everywhere we went. Patience paid off for cmb when he scored on a great buck mid-week(photos of this buck posted elsewhere on MM). I think the weather threw a curve ball at most hunters - but as usual the big bucks were there, but a little tough to find.

Zim · Dec 7, 2013

>Thanks for the replies. Almost
>forgot about the sheep hunt.
>
>Zim, I gather from your camp
>site location that there was
>a good amount of snow
>up top.

Ya we never even considered the top after hearing the forecast. Spent the first day checking out the transition elevation, before moving camp all the way to the bottom. That's where all the outfitters were. I had outfitters & clients on top of me the entire hunt. One evening had a hunter straddled by two glassers set up 500 yards directly across canyon from me. The morning I shot my buck I had a guide with client drive up to it 30 seconds after it dropped. They actually beat me there! My partner even walked into Duane Adams along with 3 guides as his hunter took a shot in Slide Canyon. In 20 years/10 states, never seen so many outfitters anywhere.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

CAelknuts · Dec 7, 2013

I don't know which thread you're referring to about CMB's great buck, but yes, it is a fantastic deer. I don't know how anyone would improve upon that buck. Congratulations to Chad!

OutdoorWriter · Dec 7, 2013

#2
>> Neither one of their clients scored. Neither did my partner nor I.<<

#5
>>The morning I shot my buck I had a guide with client drive up to it 30 seconds after it dropped.<<

Huh?

TONY MANDILE

How To Hunt Coues Deer

Zim · Dec 7, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-13 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]>#2
>>> Neither one of their clients scored. Neither did my partner nor I.<<
>
>#5
>>>The morning I shot my buck I had a guide with client drive up to it 30 seconds after it dropped.<<
>
>Huh?

To clarify: My partner and I took last day meat bucks. I don't consider that "scoring" since that is not what we were hunting for. Just last second consolations to fill tags. No way I'd have taken mine otherwise.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

ElmerFudd · Dec 8, 2013

I have several buds who have drawn that hunt over the years. All have have let unrealistic expectations ruin their fun. I think the AZGFD where to hunt info even mentions something about that for this hunt.... really sad when hunters getting the opportunity to hunt a place of legends can't enjoy the experience because of unrealistic expectations.

couesmagnet · Dec 8, 2013

I've been hunting the kaibab a lot since 1989. In the late 80's and into the mid 90's there were a lot more big bucks up there and just about everyone would see really good bucks on any hunt. Since then it seems to stay about the same with regards to big bucks harvested. On the late hunt , you can usually count on around 10 or so bucks out of 135 tags(west side) to break the 190 mark. out of these 10 bucks 3 or so will break the 200 mark. So if your doing the math , 10 bucks out of 135 tags is less than a 10 percent chance of killing one of the bucks everybody puts in for. It doesn't matter how many guides are up there the 10 buck number will stay about the same. I would venture to say that half of the 10 bucks over 190 are guide relted and the rest are bucks done dyi. I always try to explain this to hunters i talk to whether i'm guiding or not. At least i try to put it in perspective. Even if you book some of the more famous names up there for a guide, these averages won't change much from year to year. Just to pick an example, dwuane adams usually has at least 4 to 6 clients in camp each year for the late hunt. It would be an above average year if his camp had 2 bucks that broke the 190 mark, with most being mid 170 to lower 180 type deer, and these are the guys that are held up as one of the top end guides in 12a. When guys draw the kaibab, and it's only natural, they assume that drawing the tag has already assured them a big buck. In reality it just gave them a 10 percent chance to see a 190 type buck or better. Nothing against dwane adams, in fact it was a complement to him that i used him as an example, but the odds don't lie. I hope this puts it into perspective for guys that aren't familiar with the kaibab.

Zim · Dec 8, 2013

>I have several buds who have
>drawn that hunt over the
>years. All have have let
>unrealistic expectations ruin their fun.
>I think the AZGFD where
>to hunt info even mentions
>something about that for this
>hunt.... really sad when hunters
>getting the opportunity to hunt
>a place of legends can't
>enjoy the experience because of
>unrealistic expectations.

If you are talking about me, I never stated my expectations, nor complained about my hunt on any of my posts. I simply stated exactly what I observed. That is all. I had a very fun hunt. The scenery was astounding. I got to see some bucks.

As far as expectations? Nobody I met there had any expectation of a 200" buck, nor even a 190" (this included the guided hunters). All those who I spoke with mentioned their standard was 180", which was exactly the same as myself and my partner. I had a tall 180" 4x4 in rifle range the 3rd day of the hunt, and even that early I did not think twice about shooting it. It just gave me the slip 5 seconds too early. I passed on 5 mature bucks, two big 3x3's, two 160"s and a 170". I think 180" is a good goal for this hunt, but 170" is a very realistic expectation. I don't think anyone applies for 18 years without researching realistic expectations come hunt day number one. I'd say what others told me was correct, and I knew it was a gamble when I passed the 170" on the 6th day. But I would do it again.

BTW, loved the little diner at Jacob's Lake. Love discovering old school spots like that during hunting trips. Also got to visit Las Vegas first time ever, and visit my bil there. Gambled $20 into $87.50 so I felt like king of the strip! Didn't know it was so easy to win.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

ElmerFudd · Dec 8, 2013

No, nobody in particular. Was just hunting late bull elk in AZ with a bud and we talked a bit about his 12AW late hunt 5 years ago. He had 5 guys helping him. He admired the pressure to kill a nice one detracted from the experience. He passed on a really nice one but was afraid it would let down his buds..... just seemed a timely post. He thinks they saw one that would break 180, the one he passed on. I'm thinking 180 might be realistic but you are at less than 50:50 odds to get one that breaks 180. The biggest one he saw in a truck/camp was taken by a roadhunter who looked up when he stopped to relieve himself

sirroyal · Dec 8, 2013

Zim: We passed a 180" 28" wide buck at least 4 times where you were hunting looking for that 200" deer that Duwane's hunter missed!
I was up there the whole hunt with my uncle. we went looking for a real 200" BUCK......
We passed 2 180"s and 2 190's .
I Glassed a 30" 4 X 5 I believe would break 200" the 3rd day.
Nobody had found that buck yet! The next day we glassed a guy glassing that spot and sure enough 5 guys showed up that afternoon.
I gotta run family emergency , I will get back here later!

SirRoyal

Zim · Dec 8, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-13 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]SirRoyal, My partner didn't get a good look at that buck........just the 10 gallon salt pile.

Irritated me how they staked out that point and cow called any time I hiked within earshot. As if I didn't know they were there!?

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

BigBuckKiller · Dec 8, 2013

I was up on the hunt helping a good friend out. We seen some really good bucks. He ended up taking about a 175" 4x4. We heard there was a couple guys in a yellow chevy that took a really nice buck opening morning? Anyone see/know anything about this?

Cavalier · Dec 9, 2013

couesmagnet, PM sent to you

KennyT · Dec 9, 2013

I was up there 4 days before the hunt. I found one big nontypical down by jump up. I posted up a short video of him as I blew my chance opening morning. I ended up leaving this buck after a few days due to the large amount of hunters after him and a few with poor ethics. Other than that one I saw 2-3 other bucks that would go around 180. I passed a 160 5x6 in the middle of the hunt and a 170 early in the hunt. I did not kill a big buck but I saw lots of deer and some great experiences. If you want a +200" deer this hunt needs to be around 3 on your options list. If you want to see lots of deer and have a great hunt this is the one.

couesmagnet · Dec 9, 2013

reply sent

Cavalier · Dec 9, 2013

couesmagnet, great input. Thanks.

mike111 · Dec 9, 2013

In my experience on the Kaibab, Couesmagnet is right on with what to expect on a 12A West late hunt!

cmbbulldog · Dec 9, 2013

I have a couple comments for this hunt...

My dad and I have taken what I consider to be 2 great bucks in the last 3 years. We have had a ton of fun making new friends and just enjoying the kaibab. I had never been prior to the hunt in 2011, but now it's place I want to go to every year.

I talked to a lot of hunters out there, and it seemed that everyone had seen or missed a 200 + inch deer. They must all be better hunters than I, because we hunted hard from sunup till sundown, and we never saw a 200 inch buck. I think that number gets thrown around a lot, when the reality is a 180 class deer is a big deer... But doesn't make for good fireside stories

at least on the kaibab.

In 6 days of hunting, we saw 2 deer that I considered to be no doubters. I glassed up both bucks between 11-12 in the middle of the day, over a mile from the truck and in places that could not be glassed from the road. The first one narrowly escaped. The second one, 6 days later did not. The fist one was one step away from getting it, but turned 90 degrees and ran out my life. I didn't get a great look at that deer, but rockymnthunter did and said it was a no brainer probably in the 185-190 class. I saw the antlers briefly and said big deer, then got in position to shoot at the opening he was headed for. He stopped one step short.

I agree with others here have said. There are big bucks out there, but they are spread out and not easy to kill. I think one could kill a 170 class deer if they put in the time, but that next level buck will take some patience, persistence, and some luck.

I hope that I can draw the tag again in my lifetime, and if not I would love to help out others and make some new friends on that hunt.

sirroyal · Dec 9, 2013

LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-13 AT 05:13AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-13 AT 08:46?PM (MST)

My uncle had his mark set high @ 200". He killed a 206" buck on the east side in 1995.
He was one under max points and being a non-resident he would be an old man before he drew the strip. He built his own guns especially for this hunt. His long range rifle grouped 1.75 @600 yds and 2.00 @1000yds. I should mention he is one of the best benchrest shooters in the world!
Duwane Adams was really good and helpful to us and has become a good friend! God bless him!!! We were there when they brought in a 197" buck!
My friends David Pereda and Travis McClendon of ASG were a huge
help also. They killed some huge bucks on this hunt!
I could do this hunt again next year and find 180" Bucks and kill them . I believe also we could kill a 190".
Could we kill a 200"? I believe its possible with hard work!!! I have a friend that can draw this tag next year in the bonus pass, he just waiting for me to give him the green light for next years draw!

SirRoyal

LIK2HNT · Dec 10, 2013

Chad, very nice buck
SirRoyal, do you have any pictures of that you are willing to share?
Sitting on one under max points for a NR gives me a 50% chance at the tag next year. I was hoping for a little better reports fron this years hunters. Also sounds like for 135 tags the majority of the hunters are pretty concentrated in a few areas.

Bill

Bura Nut · Dec 10, 2013

I have hunted Kaibab for 13 years. Last couple 3 years I have been lucky to have a tag in my pocket ( 2010, 2011 & 2012). This year I just went up to hunt without a tag, just to be there. Lots of people throw out the 200" buck in conversations, but many dont even know what one would look like. That is a very rare deer. The Kaibab has that type of buck, but with the massive amount of area the Kaibab encompases, finding one is very hard. Each year the deer could be in different areas. 2010 they were spread out from top to bottom. 2011 they were on little mountain down to jump up. and 2012 they were initially up top then got hung up on little mountain. This year, they were all down. Personally I have seen alot of Clients who have missed alot of deer, so that affects how the Guides/Outfitters perform. Also, peoples ability to find the deer plays a big factor. This year I was down the day after thankgiving and mid-day I found 1 buck in a group of deer in the junipers that was right at the 185-190 mark. There were a couple trucks around and nobody went in and killed him. I bet they were blocked from seeing him. Anyway, big bucks are not everywhere up there, you need to hunt them all day and move when you need to move. In addition to that, you need to be ready to execute when the opportunity arises. Thanks, Allen Taylor......

DonMartin · Dec 18, 2013

This was my hunter's late 12A West buck this year.

He is 74-years-old and is from Oregon.

Had an awesome time with him and his son, who came out to share this hunt with his dad.

This is the 44th buck we looked at in 3 days, but only the third real shooter.

Old, old buck who was just what Tom was looking for.

Got him at 88 yards.

Really like these 1 X 1 hunts where you can concentrate on finding good bucks.

This buck was named "Captain Hook" cause of the hook he had in the back of his rack.

Had 40 inches of mass too.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfiters

DonMartin · Dec 18, 2013

Here is why he was named "Captain Hook"

Don Martin
AWO

nontypical · Dec 19, 2013

That is a great old, gnarly, mature buck, Don. Throw score out the window. I love the mass and trash. What a cool buck. Great trophy in my book.

I took your class last April. The extra BP didn't help me draw this tag! I now have 15 pts. Maybe next year.

Cavalier · Dec 21, 2013

I call it CHARACTER.

DonMartin · Dec 21, 2013

I got these photos of "Captain Hook" from Randy Elmer of the Peterson buck that he got last summer when the old guy was in the high country.

Thanks Randy, they are awesome!

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

azdogman · Dec 22, 2013

Zim, 10 gallon salt pile????

Zim · Dec 24, 2013

Yes

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club

DonMartin · Dec 24, 2013

you and Zim know something I don't????

Merry Christmas!

Don Martin

waylon · Jan 21, 2014

I have the 2012 sheds and a trail cam pic of this deer if you are interested in them.

waylon · Jan 22, 2014

This is his 2012 pair of sheds.
And a trail cam pic of him just days before he was killed
If you are interested in them let me know

waylon · Jan 22, 2014

DonMartin · Jan 22, 2014

Waylon:

I'm sure that Mr. Peterson would be interested. Send me a pm with details and I'll let Mr. Peterson know.

That is really cool that you have his sheds from 2012 and a picture of him.

We got him on the third day of the late hunt down in the winter range.

Thanks for sharing,

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

oilcan · Jan 22, 2014

Don you have a P.M.

LIK2HNT · Jan 23, 2014

Were the sheds found in the same general area that Don's guy killed the buck this year? Just wondering if these deer go to the same place every year.
Thanks
Bill

cmbbulldog · Jan 23, 2014

Talked to someone that has the sheds off the buck I killed this year. In chatting with him, where he picked up the sheds was 3-4 miles from where I killed my deer. So, I would say they were very much in the same general area.

LIK2HNT · Jan 24, 2014

Thanks Chad, that was a great buck you got last year. I should be there this year and hope to find a nice one. Did the guy that found the sheds to your buck offer them to you?

Bill