'24 Point Creep

[DanMan]

Alright guys, the NR app season is right around the corner. With the increase tag fees for special draw and all the trash talk about 90/10 for DEA , what do you predict for point creep for '24. More, Less, or about the same?
Really interested in what it will take for the NR Gen Elk draw this year.

 

[BuzzH]

Alright guys, the NR app season is right around the corner. With the increase tag fees for special draw and all the trash talk about 90/10 for DEA , what do you predict for point creep for '24. More, Less, or about the same?
Really interested in what it will take for the NR Gen Elk draw this year.

Tough to tell with 3 general elk regions now.

 

[DanMan]

Tough to tell with 3 general elk regions now.

So has this been officially passed? So far all that I have seen is "proposed".
When will the region quotas be decided?

 

[jm77]

So has this been officially passed? So far all that I have seen is "proposed".
When will the region quotas be decided?

Maybe you should read the regulations and not go by what you think you've seen.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Regulations/CH-44-07-27-2023-7-FINAL-Clean-Signed.pdf

 

[DanMan]

Thanks jm, exactly what I was looking for.
When I looked at WGFD website all I could find is '23 regulations, and the proposals .

 

[BenHuntn]

It's a done deal. Game fish is not sure how things will shake out this first year of the change. It only effects NR that apply for a Gen elk tag. They may have to tweek the tag allotment for each region for 2025.

 

[DarkTimber]

Good question. I am curious to see how the price increase on the special licenses affects the draw odds in both the regular and special draws.

 

[Soccerdude]

It's a done deal. Game fish is not sure how things will shake out this first year of the change. It only effects NR that apply for a Gen elk tag. They may have to tweek the tag allotment for each region for 2025.

Do you have a link with info?

 

[wytex]

Click on JM77's link and scroll down to last page, has the regions and quotas there.

 

[BuzzH]

It's a done deal. Game fish is not sure how things will shake out this first year of the change. It only effects NR that apply for a Gen elk tag. They may have to tweek the tag allotment for each region for 2025.

There better not be any "tweeking" of NR general region quotas or there will be knots jerked in tails...just sayin'.

 

[BenHuntn]

What I was told by the Laramie region Biologist is they don't know how many NR folks will apply for the Southern region General tags. They are supposed to have 1050 general tags available. That does not seem like enough. There objective is to get that herd back to there objective.

 

[BenHuntn]

Do you have a link with info?

Call a region of your choice and ask a biologist.

 

[Bookhead]

I'd be willing to bet pretty much anyone willing to pay 2k for a special price tag will draw general 0 points

 

[BuzzH]

What I was told by the Laramie region Biologist is they don't know how many NR folks will apply for the Southern region General tags. They are supposed to have 1050 general tags available. That does not seem like enough. There objective is to get that herd back to there objective.

Where were you during the commission meeting where this was approved, didn't see you there.

Also, you don't get elk herds back to objective numbers killing bulls.

Any gum flapping about increasing NR general tag quotas to get herds to objective is pure bullchit.

We had a spirited discussion with regional managers about what would happen if they start talking about raising the NR general region quota.

Fertilizer will hit the ventilator...

 

[Togwotee]

Yeah, we know, you'd cry.

On the hard to draw hunts I bet the special odds will go down. everyone will figure if they pay the big money they're guaranteed a tag, and the opposite will happen.

On the easy or moderate draw tags the special draw will probably be much higher odds.

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah, we know, you'd cry.

On the hard to draw hunts I bet the special odds will go down. everyone will figure if they pay the big money they're guaranteed a tag, and the opposite will happen.

On the easy or moderate draw tags the special draw will probably be much higher odds.

You'll cry when deer, elk, and pronghorn goes 90-10.

 

[HornedToad]

You'll cry when deer, elk, and pronghorn goes 90-10.

Buzz - You still lusting to kill more than your share of Wyoming’s wildlife… as a carpetbagger from another state?

Leave some animals for the other guy… or perhaps the next generation.

HT

 

[elkmo41]

Where were you during the commission meeting where this was approved, didn't see you there.

Also, you don't get elk herds back to objective numbers killing bulls.

Any gum flapping about increasing NR general tag quotas to get herds to objective is pure bullchit.

We had a spirited discussion with regional managers about what would happen if they start talking about raising the NR general region quota.

Fertilizer will hit the ventilator...

Curious? What would happen?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz - You still lusting to kill more than your share of Wyoming’s wildlife… as a carpetbagger from another state?

Leave some animals for the other guy… or perhaps the next generation.

HT

I have no idea what you're talking about?

I got my share of elk and pronghorn in Wyoming this year.

Last week was pretty tough on the elk, I shot these 2 cows out of one herd:

Earlier that day, my 2 carpetbagger buddies from N. Dakota did OK, got 3 from the first herd:

Helped a friend with this bull that he located during archery. I found it about 22 miles from where he last saw it. Does this qualify as leaving some for the other guy?

 

[BuzzH]

Speaking of helping the other guy, my 2 runs to Montana was a lot of that.

Helped my brother with this bull, he even used my rifle:

My Dad, who was born in Montana, needed some help with whitetail bucks.

So, I found this one for him:

Fair to middlin'...

So, tell me, if you were born in Montana, moved to Wyoming, but still hunt Montana on a cheap NR Native deer tag what state are you a carpet bagger in?

I still can't figure it out, but did figure since I was there, may as well fill a couple deer tags:

This one is sort of cool, my carpetbagger great grandfather, who moved to Montana in 1910 brought a winchester 94 in 32-40 with him from Illinois. Rifle was manufactured in 1907, rumor has it, still works on deer:

My nephew got done with mid-terms and ahd one day to hunt, Uncle Buzz found him a buck:

 

[BuzzH]

Oh, and HornedToad, almost forgot...here are some elk I left for the other guy and next generation.

Had these elk over a barrel, all it would have taken is pressing the trigger:

Crap, I almost forgot about this bull I helped a carpetbagger from WI, with earlier in the fall:

Wow, I do so much hunting each fall, and help the "other guy" so much, almost forgot about the ram I helped a CA hunter with in Montana. My brother and I found these rams while looking for elk:

Showed the lucky tag holder the photo, dropped a pin for him on ONX, and the next day he killed the lower ram in the photo.

We went to check on him and helped him pack his ram to his truck. Cool ram 10.5 years old, scored just over 170 gross green, with only 14 inch bases. Second circumferences are 13-7, and 13-6.

 

[BenHuntn]

I have no idea what you're talking about?

I got my share of elk and pronghorn in Wyoming this year.

View attachment 128457

View attachment 128458

Last week was pretty tough on the elk, I shot these 2 cows out of one herd:

View attachment 128459

View attachment 128460

Earlier that day, my 2 carpetbagger buddies from N. Dakota did OK, got 3 from the first herd:

View attachment 128461

View attachment 128462

View attachment 128463

Helped a friend with this bull that he located during archery. I found it about 22 miles from where he last saw it. Does this qualify as leaving some for the other guy?

View attachment 128464

Wow those are some nice bulls Buzz.

 

[HornedToad]

You’ve been busy. Good job of putting a dent in the cow elk herd.

HT

 

[BuzzH]

You’ve been busy. Good job of putting a dent in the cow elk herd.

HT

Hunted 29 days in November, I blew it, left one day on the table.

 

[BuzzH]

Curious? What would happen?

Somewhere around 10-15 thousand angry Resident elk hunters are going to push 90-10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Probably start asking questions about how the Department and Commission figure killing bulls with NR regional elk tags is going to reduce the elk population.

Maybe some other questions about hunt quality with more NR's slam-banging around our general areas. How issuing more NR regional tags will drop bull to cow ratio's leading to changes in recreational elk management. Asking why the Commission and Department want to kick Resident general elk hunting in the teeth to favor outfitters and NR's.

Not to mention the fact we would have been lied to by the Regional Managers that they weren't trying to increase NR regional general tags by dropping the 7250 cap.

You know, things of that nature.

 

[Deercy]

Speaking of helping the other guy, my 2 runs to Montana was a lot of that.

Helped my brother with this bull, he even used my rifle:

View attachment 128467

View attachment 128468

My Dad, who was born in Montana, needed some help with whitetail bucks.

So, I found this one for him:

View attachment 128465

Fair to middlin'...

View attachment 128466
So, tell me, if you were born in Montana, moved to Wyoming, but still hunt Montana on a cheap NR Native deer tag what state are you a carpet bagger in?

I still can't figure it out, but did figure since I was there, may as well fill a couple deer tags:

View attachment 128469

This one is sort of cool, my carpetbagger great grandfather, who moved to Montana in 1910 brought a winchester 94 in 32-40 with him from Illinois. Rifle was manufactured in 1907, rumor has it, still works on deer:

View attachment 128470

View attachment 128471

My nephew got done with mid-terms and ahd one day to hunt, Uncle Buzz found him a buck:

View attachment 128472

Love hunting with my old lever guns. I can almost smell woodsmoke when I open the action.

 

[elks96]

Buzz - You still lusting to kill more than your share of Wyoming’s wildlife… as a carpetbagger from another state?

Leave some animals for the other guy… or perhaps the next generation.

HT

HAHA. Honestly the residents "Fair Share" of WY wildlife should be 0 and 10% is very generous... Way better than 90/5/5 which we could have accepted...

 

[elks96]

Somewhere around 10-15 thousand angry Resident elk hunters are going to push 90-10 for deer, elk, and pronghorn. Probably start asking questions about how the Department and Commission figure killing bulls with NR regional elk tags is going to reduce the elk population.

Maybe some other questions about hunt quality with more NR's slam-banging around our general areas. How issuing more NR regional tags will drop bull to cow ratio's leading to changes in recreational elk management. Asking why the Commission and Department want to kick Resident general elk hunting in the teeth to favor outfitters and NR's.

Not to mention the fact we would have been lied to by the Regional Managers that they weren't trying to increase NR regional general tags by dropping the 7250 cap.

You know, things of that nature.

Yeah I have a feeling you are correct. The writing is on the wall and the numbers will not add up... I am willing to bet in 2 seasons there will be a good push to start decreasing the general NR regional tags... I am not happy with the numbers they put forward and the fact that last year they lost 30-60 percent of the deer herds in some areas and only cut NR deer tags by 10-20%

 

[GeorgeE]

Ahhh Buzz, can you help me find a Whitetail like that…. Looks like a great season!

 

[HornedToad]

Are these photos all from the same season? Looks like you gained about 10 lbs. from the first of the month to the last.

Just sayin’… the pics don’t lie.

HT

 

[BuzzH]

Are these photos all from the same season? Looks like you gained about 10 lbs. from the first of the month to the last.

Just sayin’… the pics don’t lie.

HT

Yes, one season.

My hunting schedule would kill an average man like yourself.

Isn't the drying period up on that 85+ inch pronghorn you shot?

 

[SS!]

Hell of a season like always Buzz! That’s for sharing!

 

[mulecreek]

Are these photos all from the same season? Looks like you gained about 10 lbs. from the first of the month to the last.

Just sayin’… the pics don’t lie.

HT

Do you ever get tired of being an a$$hole?

 

[wytex]

Hate to see what HT would say about me in my layers for late seasons hunts, and I'm only 125 lbs.
Nice job Buzz.

 

[jm77]

Do you ever get tired of being an a$$hole?

It just comes with the territory being a former winner of the Wyoga "Cort Feeley" award.

 

[treedagain]

It just comes with the territory being a former winner of the Wyoga "Cort Feeley" award.

Everybody gets a trophy

 

[treedagain]

Whether or not 90/10 happens is debatable, but regardless I will put in. Love Wyoming and the way they manage their game for the most part.

The same crybabys will cry if it does.... or dont..

Same idiots will poke and poke safe behind their keyboard in moms basement.

10% is fair to me when you compare to other states.... we the NRs have had it good for a long time. No complaints from me.

 

[HornedToad]

Everybody relax. I like Buzz, and note that he kills a lot of Wyoming’s animals.

But Buzz… I never said I shot an 85” antelope this season. There you go again, misrepresenting what I said. Only jm77 holds a candle to you when it comes to misrepresenting and distorting what others say.

The drying period is up, but I‘ve decided to wait until the taxi completes his work before having the head scored. One thing you can be sure of, he will be on the wall next to my pair of 85” pronghorns, from seasons past, and will fit right in. He certainly won’t be in my garage!

 

[Togwotee]

And Buzzed turns another thread into a screw the NR and look at me thread.

Founder needs to start a NR Wyoming forum so we can talk without the trolls butting in. about things like point creep, not how many does and cows a creep can point out.

 

[SS!]

Whether or not 90/10 happens is debatable, but regardless I will put in. Love Wyoming and the way they manage their game for the most part.

The same crybabys will cry if it does.... or dont..

Same idiots will poke and poke safe behind their keyboard in moms basement.

10% is fair to me when you compare to other states.... we the NRs have had it good for a long time. No complaints from me.

I like your perspective!

 

[hossblur]

You'll cry when deer, elk, and pronghorn goes 90-10.

I was under the understanding that there was a guy in Laramie who told us this spring HE was making this happen


Was he full of ****? Can't imagine that

 

[treedagain]

Everybody relax. I like Buzz, and note that he kills a lot of Wyoming’s animals.

But Buzz… I never said I shot an 85” antelope this season. There you go again, misrepresenting what I said. Only jm77 holds a candle to you when it comes to misrepresenting and distorting what others say.

The drying period is up, but I‘ve decided to wait until the taxi completes his work before having the head scored. One thing you can be sure of, he will be on the wall next to my pair of 85” pronghorns, from seasons past, and will fit right in. He certainly won’t be in my garage!

When you shoot enough animals you will need to expand to the garage?

Is it bad I have racks in the house, garage and shed? To be honest my house is not a
mc-mansion, just a normal

 

[BuzzH]

When you shoot enough animals you will need to expand to the garage?

Is it bad I have racks in the house, garage and shed? To be honest my house is not a
mc-mansion, just a normal

According to HT, you're a monster.

If HT doesn't have a garage, I wouldn't suggest he builds one. No over-flow racks to put in it.

Is it bad I have antlers/racks in the garage AND rafters?

Maybe I'll post up a picture of the rafter racks...cause a complete HT meltdown.

 

[twopointdn]

According to HT, you're a monster.

If HT doesn't have a garage, I wouldn't suggest he builds one. No over-flow racks to put in it.

Is it bad I have antlers/racks in the garage AND rafters?

Maybe I'll post up a picture of the rafter racks...cause a complete HT meltdown.

I would like to see the rafter pictures. Rafter pictures full of racks are some of my favorite.

 

[HornedToad]

According to HT…

There you go again, Buzz… putting words into another person’s mouth.

You pull that stunt a lot, but without it, you wouldn’t know what to say.

You need to get smarter.

HT

 

[BuzzH]

There you go again, Buzz… putting words into another person’s mouth.

You pull that stunt a lot, but without it, you wouldn’t know what to say.

You need to get smarter.

HT

Buzz - You still lusting to kill more than your share of Wyoming’s wildlife

Leave some animals for the other guy… or perhaps the next generation.

HT

Really?

 

[junior]

Never saw a back country guy brag. Road hunters is a different story.

 

[BuzzH]

Never saw a back country guy brag.

Isn't bragging if you've done it.

Jealous much?

 

[junior]

Isn't bragging if you've done it.

Jealous much?

So Your a road guy and you've done it... congrats! BRAVO

 

[junior]

Not surprised given your career rd ass. Congrats

 

[BuzzH]

Not surprised given your career rd ass. Congrats

 

[BuzzH]

So Your a road guy and you've done it... congrats! BRAVO

*you're

 

[jims]

Buzz, you are talking out your rear like you have for the past 10 to 15+ years on this subject!

Above is the wg&f license revenue with past license fees. Nonres will pick up an even higher chunk of this revenues with the dramatic increase in regular and special license fee charges in 2024.

Like mentioned every year at this time, where is the loss in WG&F revenue going to come from with 90/10? We all know that the Task Force was a total joke. 90/10 and 90/5/5 propositions were a total failure. Wyo res will never be willing to make up the differences in the lost revenue.

I was pretty excited when the new nonres tag increases were adopted! This meant 90/10 would be even tougher to ever pass in our lifetimes!

Hey Buzz, let’s get this rolling like every year when you start the same ole crap!

What about small Wyo town revenue loss if nonres tags are cut? How about pref pt revenue loss if nonres drop out of the pref pt program like flies if limited nonres tags are sliced in 1/2 and it takes 2X longer for each and every nonres to draw every limited tag.

We all know that Wyo res draw odds for highly limited tags will remain close to the same while each and every nonres limited tag will suddenly take 2x longer to draw with 90/10. How many nonres will lose faith in Wyo and bale out of supporting wyo wildlife grants with rmef, muley foundation, etc if they may never draw high demand limited tags?

The wg&f and funding projects that benefit Wyo wildlife will be the big losers!

Everyone pat Buzz on the back for all of his success hunting Wyo in 2023. It’s evident from all his photos that Wyo res have plenty of opportunity securing tags with current quotas.

 

[BuzzH]

View attachment 128795
Buzz, you are talking out your rear like you have for the past 10+ years on this subject!

Above is the wg&f license revenue with past license fees. Nonres will pick up an even higher chunk of this revenues with the dramatic increase in regular and special license fee charges in 2024.

Like mentioned every year at this time, where is the loss in WG&F revenue going to come from with 90/10? We all know that the Task Force was a total joke. 90/10 and 90/5/5 propositions were a total failure. Wyo res will never be willing to make up the differences in the lost revenue.

I was pretty excited when the new nonres tag increases were adopted! This meant 90/10 would be even tougher to ever pass in our lifetimes!

Hey Buzz, let’s get this rolling like every year when you start the same ole crap!

What about small Wyo town revenue loss if nonres tags are cut? How about pref pt revenue loss if nonres drop out of the pref pt program like flies if limited nonres tags are sliced in 1/2 and it takes 2X longer for each and every nonres to draw every limited tag.

We all know that Wyo res draw odds for highly limited tags will remain close to the same while each and every nonres limited tag will suddenly take 2x longer to draw with 90/10. How many nonres will lose faith in Wyo.

The wg&f and funding projects that benefit Wyo wildlife will be the big losers!

Everyone pat Buzz on the back for all of his success hunting Wyo in 2023. It’s evident from all his photos that Wyo res have plenty of opportunity securing tags with current quotas.

View attachment 128795

Sebastian,

Tell everyone about the "dramatic increase in NR regular license fees".

How's 90-10 working out for moose, sheep, goat, and bison?

Which small towns have folded up because of it? Remember when you said it wouldn't happen?

Muley foundation?

Laffin'...

P.S.

Hope you're ok with the WGF holding your $1950 for the special elk tag fee for 4 months.

Happy Holidays.

 

[junior]

Just ribbing ya there Buzzer! Good on you hooking some folks up.

 

[Jgill19]

Well, it had potential to been an informative thread...

 

[Largebull]

What's this Happy Holidays Crap? Merry Christmas to ALL!

 

[LivingTheDream]

Well, it had potential to been an informative thread...

It honestly never had a chance.

 

[SDBugler]

Well, it had potential to been an informative thread...

I was thinking the same thing. I had hoped to see some opinions and speculation on what others thought would happen with the new special tag prices and not another thread gone bad episode.

I will throw my opinion in to hopefully get back on track.
I'm guessing the draw odds for tags that take a lot of points to guarantee drawing won't change much as people already have a lot of time and $ invested. But I think the lower point units might see better draw odds in the special this year.

 

[Rie bread]

Man super stoked to apply to Wyoming this year

 

[jims]

I guess I’m not as excited about this year. Paying a huge chunk more $ if applying for special price tags plus muley and antelope quality and numbers in the toilet.

I’m actually to the point of spending my hard earned cash elsewhere.

 

[jm77]

I guess I’m not as excited about this year. Paying a huge chunk more $ if applying for special price tags plus muley and antelope quality and numbers in the toilet.

I’m actually to the point of spending my hard earned cash elsewhere.

I'm betting you're one of the DIY guys licking their lips because they are willing to pay the new special fee, hoping to draw more tags. Gotcha didn't I?

 

[WapitiBob]

It's getting to be a barrier for sure. As Buzz pointed out way back when this came up, not everybody has the same situation. Retired and no debt vs a young family makes a big difference.

 

[jims]

I wouldn’t be that excited about Wyo deer or antelope this year regardless of what the price is for a tag. Like I said, the quality and numbers are in the toilet.

 

[junior]

Im siding on SDBugler and WB...paying big money for a so so tag isn't going to happen for the average joe.

 

[DaveD]

Im siding on SDBugler and WB...paying big money for a so so tag isn't going to happen for the average joe.

I have heard that from an awful lot of people this year... that are planning to apply special so they draw. I think that strategy will absolutely work for a lower tier antelope or deer tag and for sure with the general elk, but I'm guessing, for at least the first year, we see pretty big numbers in the special for the good permits.

 

[wweaver79]

I could see everyone thinking well I will pony up the extra money now and draw, only problem is everyone thinks that. Watch some of these take more points for special than the regular. A bit of a chess game this year. I am sitting at 14 pts and have changed my app last minute do to other hunts coming through before WY decided to cash in their 120 day CD and do the draw (this is a joke). I agree the bottom and mid-tier Pronghorn and Deer tags should be easier because of the extra fee and quality combined. Elk the general special will still take I bet 2 points maybe not 3 like it has been in the special. People who can swing it and want to go will go. Those with huge 401ks are smiling all the way to the woods right now also, at least for a bit.

 

[Katoom]

Having these types of conversations this year. People’s dedication to applying into the face of both high draw costs and/or low odds is getting tested.