Not sure yet, as this will be my first year with the 410. I've been shooting them with 3" and 3 1/2" 12 ga, 6's, and my shoulder just can't take the pounding anymore. Gonna try my new little 410 Mossberg 500, as it groups this load really well at 30 yards. From all I have read, the tungsten TSS is best (expensive tho) and those are usually in 9 or 9.5 shot. These DoubleX Diamond are hardened lead and copper plated, so should have quite a wallop.