50 less NR tags in G

jm77 said:
All I heard outfitters want to cut was resident opportunity.
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Yes and no i thought, and i did listen to the whole damn meeting today...Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity. . There were numerous statements from public comment about residents going to pick your region/quota etc, not the outfitters bringing that up. And after this winter, I believe changes are on the horizon one way or the other in the years to come
 
If the outfitters in G that spoke, would of in a more positive light, the outcome may have been different. The whining about clients' vacation time not coinciding with season dates was pathetic. Dustin did good. The vote to reduce seemed to be more symbolic, make us feel good more than anything...'well H was reduced by 200...why isn't G being reduced"... Boy, did that commissioner want to change season dates and make 135 the same as the rest...He must of heard the lynch mob rustling..
 
rocky2track said:
If the outfitters in G that spoke, would of in a more positive light, the outcome may have been different. The whining about clients' vacation time not coinciding with season dates was pathetic. Dustin did good. The vote to reduce seemed to be more symbolic, make us feel good more than anything...'well H was reduced by 200...why isn't G being reduced"... Boy, did that commissioner want to change season dates and make 135 the same as the rest...He must of heard the lynch mob rustling..
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Yea i agree. They kinda screwed themselves, neither of them spoke well... not our fault mother nature produced the worst winter in over 30 years for wildlife, and your poor clients asked for vacation days already.. which i think was more a play to try and just get them to leave dates than being true.. when i guided in the frank church in 2007-09... they shut down entire areas due to fire with a week or two notice.. these clients have a bit more time than those did... not sure what i think of that new commissioner, kinda felt like he was clueless on hunting overall with some of his questions on different species
 
rocky2track said:
If the outfitters in G that spoke, would have in a more positive light, the outcome may have been different. The whining about clients' vacation time not coinciding with season dates was pathetic. Dustin did good. The vote to reduce seemed to be more symbolic, make us feel good more than anything...'well H was reduced by 200...why isn't G being reduced"... Boy, did that commissioner want to change season dates and make 135 the same as the rest...He must of heard the lynch mob rustling..
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My experience with Dustin has all been positive. Seems like a genuinely good guy.
 
mntnguide said:
Yes and no i thought, and i did listen to the whole damn meeting today...Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity. . There were numerous statements from public comment about residents going to pick your region/quota etc, not the outfitters bringing that up. And after this winter, I believe changes are on the horizon one way or the other in the years to come
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I was at the whole damn meeting and couldn't hear what Dustin said. I think I need hearing aids.
There were outfitter comments about resident opportunity, but it's not worth the argument. One thing you can be assured of and that's if any general areas fall LQ, it will be the whole state.
The next thing that will happen is 90/10 on deer.
 
jm77 said:
I was at the whole damn meeting and couldn't hear what Dustin said. I think I need hearing aids.
There were outfitter comments about resident opportunity, but it's not worth the argument. One thing you can be assured of and that's if any general areas fall LQ, it will be the whole state.
The next thing that will happen is 90/10 on deer.
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Oh man..i feel for ya, not sure i could sit through that in a room... the worst was the online guy who commented for 20 minutes and didn't make a single point about anything. I do agree with your thoughts though, i just think change will come to residents, just hard to see what yet.
 
Guess people think different when it comes to harvesting a deer, a friend from Illinois didn’t harvest a buck last year cause he didn’t see any that caught his interest and he made 2 trips out , first one he drove then towards end of season he flew out, now that’s the progresso of tag soup ?, but one year a group from Utah found a patch of trees with some bucks they bragged how they killed the whole group, 6 bucks, one decent one and the rest just young bucks!!! Just blows my mind!!
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
Guess people think different when it comes to harvesting a deer, a friend from Illinois didn’t harvest a buck last year cause he didn’t see any that caught his interest and he made 2 trips out , first one he drove then towards end of season he flew out, now that’s the progresso of tag soup ?, but one year a group from Utah found a patch of trees with some bucks they bragged how they killed the whole group, 6 bucks, one decent one and the rest just young bucks!!! Just blows my mind!!
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I've watched the same type of thing. Watched a group of about 8 bucks go across a big meadow from one group of trees to the other only 2 or 3 made it across. Pretty sad to watch. No big bucks in the group.
 
I missed the meeting. Can someone please tell.me who the outfitters in G were that spoke against the cuts? Thanks!!
 
El Gringo said:
Ahhhh Cmon Buzz!!! It’s the spirit that counts! Aren’t we all for everyone doin their part?!
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I'm not hunting G this year or H...so yes, I'm doing my part. Only way I'll even kill a mule deer is if I draw a LQ tag. Otherwise, whitetail buck or doe.
 
I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
 
Orion_23 said:
I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
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Don’t mess up a good debate with facts and reason…. Sheesh
 
BuzzH said:
I'm not hunting G this year or H...so yes, I'm doing my part. Only way I'll even kill a mule deer is if I draw a LQ tag. Otherwise, whitetail buck or doe.
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The whole thing sucks. I hate to see everything flattened like it has been.
 
I listened to the entire meeting on Zoom, and if I remember correctly the biologist said, or some said close to 5,000 residents hunt G every year. So I suppose the 50 less deer that could be killed by non residents, could potentially be killed by residents. Isn't that possible? If I did the math correctly it would only take a 1% increase in the success rate for 5,000 hunters to harvest 50 additional deer.

Not saying it wasn't a good thing to reduce the non resident quota by 50, just for better optics. One of the hardest hit areas and they had zero reductions. So yes I definitely don't disagree with it. It's just too bad there isn't a way to also reduce the number of resident hunters. They did go to a 3 point APR. That should help to reduce harvest.
 
SureShot said:
Potentially 50 more residents could swoop in to take the place of those non-residents, which negates the biological benefit. It's not about what's best for the unit, it's about what's best for residents.
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Those resident hunters where going to hunt there regardless of how many NR's hunt it. No matter how you slice it less deer will be killed if they issue less tags.
 
Bob D. said:
I listened to the entire meeting on Zoom, and if I remember correctly the biologist said, or some said close to 5,000 residents hunt G every year. So I suppose the 50 less deer that could be killed by non residents, could potentially be killed by residents. Isn't that possible? If I did the math correctly it would only take a 1% increase in the success rate for 5,000 hunters to harvest 50 additional deer.

Not saying it wasn't a good thing to reduce the non resident quota by 50, just for better optics. One of the hardest hit areas and they had zero reductions. So yes I definitely don't disagree with it. It's just too bad there isn't a way to also reduce the number of resident hunters. They did go to a 3 point APR. That should help to reduce harvest.
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Remove the res hunters from the equation. They are going to due what they do, regardless of how many NR tags are issued. No other way to look at it, less tags will equal less deer killed.
 
Crampy said:
Residents will have zero cut. NRs will absorb 100% of the gen cuts.

Every other state would cut their resident tags at same time. And according to their ratio.

But Wyoming assigns 100% of these cuts to NRs.
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I know….It’s hard to convey modest sarcasm
 
Crampy said:
WY residents want 90/10, but they also want to keep all these other built in advantages.

And they think no one notices.
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So, if Wyoming goes 90/10 and drops all NR region deer tags and makes them all LQ...use your "logic" and "common sense", ask yourself if NR's are going to have more or less deer tags available to them.

Be careful what you wish for...you might just get it.
 
SS! said:
For lack of a better word its really disappointing that they only cut 50 tags for region G. You want to believe mule deer management is not political but this is proof its not the case. Maybe they forgot the zero at the end?
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So true. Utah cut alot of deer tags up north and 90% of those cuts were from the res allocation, 10% from the NR allocation.

Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
 
Crampy said:
Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
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Highly unlikely utah guys would grow a set of balls, add in a spine AND get NR tag allocations cut. Sounds really nice tho....
 
Orion_23 said:
I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
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Ding ding ding we have a winner.
 
Orion_23 said:
I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
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You’re right, they should cut 300 NR tags. Glad to see someone gets it!
 
It won't truly accomplish anything management wise. It's all political as stated above. Makes no sense to cut region H by 200 tags and G by only 50. I understand why it's that way but it still makes no sense from a management stand point
 
Bookhead said:
It won't truly accomplish anything management wise. It's all political as stated above. Makes no sense to cut region H by 200 tags and G by only 50. I understand why it's that way but it still makes no sense from a management stand point
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How many, including yourself, is planning to hunt there this fall?
 
jm77 said:
How many, including yourself, is planning to hunt there this fall?
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I haven't decided if I will or not yet I'll see how bad the winter kill is when the snow melts for myself. No way to know how many others will. I'm glad they cut some but not nearly enough most likely
 
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I believe that tag cuts can make a difference when harvest rates are high, say 80% or higher, but I don’t believe small tag cuts would reduce the overall harvest if success rates are lower than say 40%. It is more likely to raise success rates for others. Cutting 50 tags for G might make it a little better for hunters, but meaningless for the deer herd.
 
Bookhead said:
That being said if I do hunt over there I won't just shoot a buck to kill one haven't shot one over there the last 3 seasons that I hunted it.
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I've talked to many residents who hunt G about this and to a one, they either say this^^^ or say they will not hunt there for a year or two. I can't prove it but I know a far greater percent of residents self regulate than NR and I get there's a big difference in what a NR pays for a tag.
 
jm77 said:
I've talked to many residents who hunt G about this and to a one, they either say this^^^ or say they will not hunt there for a year or two. I can't prove it but I know a far greater percent of residents self regulate than NR and I get there's a big difference in what a NR pays for a tag.
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True enough I won't argue that
 
Crampy said:
So true. Utah cut alot of deer tags up north and 90% of those cuts were from the res allocation, 10% from the NR allocation.

Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
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Utah is a different story.....it is not OTC so the cuts should be the same for both. Big difference between cuts in an already limited situation and Wyomings OTC vs limted. Pretty easy to cut draw tags and leave the OTC alone.

I do see this as a chance for Wyoming to make some changes that the res do not like or want?
 
I understand the frustration from NR, but I truly don’t understand the comparison to Utah. Let’s try to make as close to an apples to apples comparison between Utah and Wyoming as we possibly can…. Take the Cache general seasons( right across the border), and tell me how many Resident tags and Nonresident tags are issued in total. Now let’s compare that to Region G, and see which state is more generous in the sense of NR opportunity. (Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe WY is in the lead by a fair amount… even if they cut 50).

Again, I understand the frustration as opportunities continue to dwindle… but it does get pretty annoying listening to a select few of these Utah folks complain, when they have historically had more opportunity in WY as a nonresident, than they do in their home state.
 
SS! said:
DoubleD I heard you’ve set the record at road and bridge for being stuck the most this winter. Can you confirm?
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@SS! Not sure if it’s a record but gotta be getting close ?, took the rest of week off let that stuff melt and then I’ll take off until the mud dries, won’t need any time to hunt since I’ll get tags and eat them?
 
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mntnguide said:
...Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity.
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I listened to Dustin's comment on the video and clearly heard what he said and agree with it all.
 
What is the total allotment for G and H this year. In other words, what does the 50 tag and 200 tag reduction represent in percentage decrease for these two units? Just curious.
 
Ticks N Tines said:
What is the total allotment for G and H this year. In other words, what does the 50 tag and 200 tag reduction represent in percentage decrease for these two units? Just curious.
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I'll attempt to answer my own question based on info I just found. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I see:
2022 tags - Region G - 521 reg / 34 spec = 555 total
2023 tags with 50 tag reduction = 9.00% decrease

2022 tags - Region H - 1500 reg / 58 spec = 1558 total
2023 tags with 200 tag reduction = 9.46% decrease

I would have thought there would be a much larger decrease in tags after this terrible winter. Seems appropriate to have a 30-40% decrease based on the winter kill numbers.
 
No one could of predicted what Mother Nature would though at Wyoming this year. And devastate the deer and antelope populations. With that said I would of preferred all those animals in someone’s freezers. No matter what state they reside in. Better to have someone eating them than having them feeding the coyotes. Let’s hope this is the last bad winter for awhile.
 
Ticks N Tines said:
What is the total allotment for G and H this year. In other words, what does the 50 tag and 200 tag reduction represent in percentage decrease for these two units? Just curious.
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G went from 400 to 350 and H went from 600 to 400. That's the non resident quota.

The number of resident hunters in each region is unknown.
 
Ticks N Tines said:
I'll attempt to answer my own question based on info I just found. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I see:
2022 tags - Region G - 521 reg / 34 spec = 555 total
2023 tags with 50 tag reduction = 9.00% decrease

2022 tags - Region H - 1500 reg / 58 spec = 1558 total
2023 tags with 200 tag reduction = 9.46% decrease

I would have thought there would be a much larger decrease in tags after this terrible winter. Seems appropriate to have a 30-40% decrease based on the winter kill numbers.
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Where did you get those numbers?
 
Crampy said:
WY residents want 90/10, but they also want to keep all these other built in advantages.

And they think no one notices.
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Haha. No one notices. We say it straight up all the time. The real Issue all the whiners have is that we really don’t give a crap…
 
Bob D. said:
G went from 400 to 350 and H went from 600 to 400. That's the non resident quota.

The number of resident hunters in each region is unknown.
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Thanks. Not sure why my numbers are so much different. I must have looked up something different.
 
Screenshot_20230420_092835_Facebook.jpg
 
LIK2HNT said:
No one could of predicted what Mother Nature would though at Wyoming this year. And devastate the deer and antelope populations. With that said I would of preferred all those animals in someone’s freezers. No matter what state they reside in. Better to have someone eating them than having them feeding the coyotes. Let’s hope this is the last bad winter for awhile.
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Question?


Since the old and young typically take the brunt of severe winters, how would you issue tags to ensure that hunters kill fawns and the fossil aged animals in the herds? Would they be willing to pay for those tags to shoot 15 year old animals or 6 month old animals? Why does every animal have to be used by a human to have value?

How would we educate a hunter to know which animals to shoot and not shoot?

Sounds pretty difficult...impossible actually.

I find nothing wrong with animals dying of old age, being eaten by predators, and having to reduce quota's for unforeseen weather, etc. etc.

Not every animal has to be utilized by a human to have value.
 
SureShot said:
Potentially 50 more residents could swoop in to take the place of those non-residents, which negates the biological benefit. It's not about what's best for the unit, it's about what's best for residents.
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The writing has be on the wall for the past two decades. Up through 2003 there were 1600 NR tags for Region G. Fast forward to about 2017 there were multiple cuts which ultimately brought it down to 400 NR tags. Now it looks like 350 is proposed for fall 2023. Won’t be long until you will need to a resident to hunt there…so plan accordingly.
 
one_dryboot said:
Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
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Not going to happen...and for all kinds of good reasons.
 
one_dryboot said:
Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
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Seems to me if no bucks were making it over 20" due to the resident slaughter, then G and H would be significantly less popular than they are with NR's.

Just admit that the reason G&H changes piss off so many NR hunters is because you know it is still a damn great place to find a buck of a lifetime. Even with the resident slaughter that has existed forever.
 
one_dryboot said:
Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
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Hey booty, I feel like this may be directed toward me. In my defense, he looked more like 27" wide.:)
 
one_dryboot said:
Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
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Well said.
It appears the only thing WY F&G wants to manage is non-residents. Wildlife management is a thing of the past.
 
Say what you want, but the WY G&F does an excellent job of managing Wyoming's wildlife. I'm glad the commission, for the most part, listened to the biologists' recommendations. If the G&F didn't manage well, do you think our big game would be as highly coveted as it is?

Another thing to note: that pic of the deer stacked in the back of the truck is a bit of social media sensationalism. Those deer are stacked up like that every year on that highway whether there is snow or not. The winterkill has been horrific this year, but roadkill on that highway has been an issue for decades.
 

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