Not much else. Opening and closing dates in Black Hills but nothing of great consequence that I saw.Saw that one coming. Figured it would be more. Anything else note worthy?
All I heard outfitters want to cut was resident opportunity.yep...suggested by a commissioner not game and fish, and unanimously accepted. probably some angry outfitters walking out of that room, they asked for the season dates not to be shortened, and obviously not to lose tags, and Pow...right in the kisser!
Yes and no i thought, and i did listen to the whole damn meeting today...Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity. . There were numerous statements from public comment about residents going to pick your region/quota etc, not the outfitters bringing that up. And after this winter, I believe changes are on the horizon one way or the other in the years to comeAll I heard outfitters want to cut was resident opportunity.
Yea i agree. They kinda screwed themselves, neither of them spoke well... not our fault mother nature produced the worst winter in over 30 years for wildlife, and your poor clients asked for vacation days already.. which i think was more a play to try and just get them to leave dates than being true.. when i guided in the frank church in 2007-09... they shut down entire areas due to fire with a week or two notice.. these clients have a bit more time than those did... not sure what i think of that new commissioner, kinda felt like he was clueless on hunting overall with some of his questions on different speciesIf the outfitters in G that spoke, would of in a more positive light, the outcome may have been different. The whining about clients' vacation time not coinciding with season dates was pathetic. Dustin did good. The vote to reduce seemed to be more symbolic, make us feel good more than anything...'well H was reduced by 200...why isn't G being reduced"... Boy, did that commissioner want to change season dates and make 135 the same as the rest...He must of heard the lynch mob rustling..
My experience with Dustin has all been positive. Seems like a genuinely good guy.If the outfitters in G that spoke, would have in a more positive light, the outcome may have been different. The whining about clients' vacation time not coinciding with season dates was pathetic. Dustin did good. The vote to reduce seemed to be more symbolic, make us feel good more than anything...'well H was reduced by 200...why isn't G being reduced"... Boy, did that commissioner want to change season dates and make 135 the same as the rest...He must of heard the lynch mob rustling..
Really? You think non residents hunting G have a 100% success rate. Highly unlikely. 50% at best.50 more bucks will make it to the winter range next year, very few NR will leave without a buck. I know a lot of Residents will not just shoot a buck.
No, I don't blame anyone who waits 10 years to draw a tag for wanting to take a buck home.Really? You think non residents hunting G have a 100% success rate. Highly unlikely. 50% at best.
I was at the whole damn meeting and couldn't hear what Dustin said. I think I need hearing aids.Yes and no i thought, and i did listen to the whole damn meeting today...Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity. . There were numerous statements from public comment about residents going to pick your region/quota etc, not the outfitters bringing that up. And after this winter, I believe changes are on the horizon one way or the other in the years to come
Data based on 100% reporting? We really don't know how many bucks are killed every year.Past data shows non-residents killing percentage much higher
Data based on 100% reporting? We really don't know how many bucks are killed every year.
Oh man..i feel for ya, not sure i could sit through that in a room... the worst was the online guy who commented for 20 minutes and didn't make a single point about anything. I do agree with your thoughts though, i just think change will come to residents, just hard to see what yet.I was at the whole damn meeting and couldn't hear what Dustin said. I think I need hearing aids.
There were outfitter comments about resident opportunity, but it's not worth the argument. One thing you can be assured of and that's if any general areas fall LQ, it will be the whole state.
The next thing that will happen is 90/10 on deer.
I've watched the same type of thing. Watched a group of about 8 bucks go across a big meadow from one group of trees to the other only 2 or 3 made it across. Pretty sad to watch. No big bucks in the group.Guess people think different when it comes to harvesting a deer, a friend from Illinois didn’t harvest a buck last year cause he didn’t see any that caught his interest and he made 2 trips out , first one he drove then towards end of season he flew out, now that’s the progresso of tag soup ?, but one year a group from Utah found a patch of trees with some bucks they bragged how they killed the whole group, 6 bucks, one decent one and the rest just young bucks!!! Just blows my mind!!
Correct, cuts should have been deeper.50? What a joke.
In the spirit of 90/10, Should be 450 Residents cut as well?50? What a joke.
I would bet quite a few residents that normally take the trip over to G won't go this year.In the spirit of 90/10, Should be 450 Residents cut as well?
The splits don't apply to region tags...try again, and they aren't 90/10 for LQ either...yet.In the spirit of 90/10, Should be 450 Residents cut as well?
Ahhhh Cmon Buzz!!! It’s the spirit that counts! Aren’t we all for everyone doin their part?!The splits don't apply to region tags...try again, and they aren't 90/10 for LQ either...yet.
I'm not hunting G this year or H...so yes, I'm doing my part. Only way I'll even kill a mule deer is if I draw a LQ tag. Otherwise, whitetail buck or doe.Ahhhh Cmon Buzz!!! It’s the spirit that counts! Aren’t we all for everyone doin their part?!
Don’t mess up a good debate with facts and reason…. SheeshI have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
The whole thing sucks. I hate to see everything flattened like it has been.I'm not hunting G this year or H...so yes, I'm doing my part. Only way I'll even kill a mule deer is if I draw a LQ tag. Otherwise, whitetail buck or doe.
Potentially 50 less deer will be killed. What part of that equation are you struggling with?Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents?
Those resident hunters where going to hunt there regardless of how many NR's hunt it. No matter how you slice it less deer will be killed if they issue less tags.Potentially 50 more residents could swoop in to take the place of those non-residents, which negates the biological benefit. It's not about what's best for the unit, it's about what's best for residents.
Remove the res hunters from the equation. They are going to due what they do, regardless of how many NR tags are issued. No other way to look at it, less tags will equal less deer killed.I listened to the entire meeting on Zoom, and if I remember correctly the biologist said, or some said close to 5,000 residents hunt G every year. So I suppose the 50 less deer that could be killed by non residents, could potentially be killed by residents. Isn't that possible? If I did the math correctly it would only take a 1% increase in the success rate for 5,000 hunters to harvest 50 additional deer.
Not saying it wasn't a good thing to reduce the non resident quota by 50, just for better optics. One of the hardest hit areas and they had zero reductions. So yes I definitely don't disagree with it. It's just too bad there isn't a way to also reduce the number of resident hunters. They did go to a 3 point APR. That should help to reduce harvest.
In the spirit of 90/10, Should be 450 Residents cut as well?
How do you cut general OTC tags?Residents will have zero cut. NRs will absorb 100% of the gen cuts.
Every other state would cut their resident tags at same time. And according to their ratio.
But Wyoming assigns 100% of these cuts to NRs.
I know….It’s hard to convey modest sarcasmResidents will have zero cut. NRs will absorb 100% of the gen cuts.
Every other state would cut their resident tags at same time. And according to their ratio.
But Wyoming assigns 100% of these cuts to NRs.
God bless Wyoming!Residents will have zero cut. NRs will absorb 100% of the gen cuts.
Every other state would cut their resident tags at same time. And according to their ratio.
But Wyoming assigns 100% of these cuts to NRs.
You make them not unlimited OTC, either through a cap or a draw.How do you cut general OTC tags?
IMO/E, residents somewhat self regulate and if there just aren't deer around, harvest drops off abruptly.
Nope, we aren't doing that.You make them not unlimited OTC, either through a cap or a draw.
You make them not unlimited OTC, either through a cap or a draw.
I know….It’s hard to convey modest sarcasm
So, if Wyoming goes 90/10 and drops all NR region deer tags and makes them all LQ...use your "logic" and "common sense", ask yourself if NR's are going to have more or less deer tags available to them.WY residents want 90/10, but they also want to keep all these other built in advantages.
And they think no one notices.
This is wrong. Its not that we think no one notices, its that we don't care if you notice or not.And they think no one notices.
For lack of a better word its really disappointing that they only cut 50 tags for region G. You want to believe mule deer management is not political but this is proof its not the case. Maybe they forgot the zero at the end?
Highly unlikely utah guys would grow a set of balls, add in a spine AND get NR tag allocations cut. Sounds really nice tho....Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
Saw those.....is it video specific? The ones I looked at have no commentary in them?Meeting has posted.
Ding ding ding we have a winner.I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
You’re right, they should cut 300 NR tags. Glad to see someone gets it!I have never hunted G or H. Maybe will some day. Can anyone explain how cutting NR tags by 50 would accomplish anything when G remains a general unit for residents? I know WY has gained a ton of residents in the hunting community over the last decade. The cut of 50 tags seems like a drop in the bucket.
How many, including yourself, is planning to hunt there this fall?It won't truly accomplish anything management wise. It's all political as stated above. Makes no sense to cut region H by 200 tags and G by only 50. I understand why it's that way but it still makes no sense from a management stand point
I haven't decided if I will or not yet I'll see how bad the winter kill is when the snow melts for myself. No way to know how many others will. I'm glad they cut some but not nearly enough most likelyHow many, including yourself, is planning to hunt there this fall?
I've talked to many residents who hunt G about this and to a one, they either say this^^^ or say they will not hunt there for a year or two. I can't prove it but I know a far greater percent of residents self regulate than NR and I get there's a big difference in what a NR pays for a tag.That being said if I do hunt over there I won't just shoot a buck to kill one haven't shot one over there the last 3 seasons that I hunted it.
True enough I won't argue thatI've talked to many residents who hunt G about this and to a one, they either say this^^^ or say they will not hunt there for a year or two. I can't prove it but I know a far greater percent of residents self regulate than NR and I get there's a big difference in what a NR pays for a tag.
Utah is a different story.....it is not OTC so the cuts should be the same for both. Big difference between cuts in an already limited situation and Wyomings OTC vs limted. Pretty easy to cut draw tags and leave the OTC alone.So true. Utah cut alot of deer tags up north and 90% of those cuts were from the res allocation, 10% from the NR allocation.
Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
They can have it !! ?So true. Utah cut alot of deer tags up north and 90% of those cuts were from the res allocation, 10% from the NR allocation.
Next year, Utahns will demand to use the WY model and every tag cut will come from the NR allocation.
DoubleD I heard you’ve set the record at road and bridge for being stuck the most this winter. Can you confirm?They can have it !! ?
@SS! Not sure if it’s a record but gotta be getting close ?, took the rest of week off let that stuff melt and then I’ll take off until the mud dries, won’t need any time to hunt since I’ll get tags and eat them?DoubleD I heard you’ve set the record at road and bridge for being stuck the most this winter. Can you confirm?
it's a copy of their live streamSaw those.....is it video specific? The ones I looked at have no commentary in them?
I listened to Dustin's comment on the video and clearly heard what he said and agree with it all....Dustin Childs stood up and completely agreed with the 200 tag cut in H where he has multiple backcountry camps..and all he wanted to suggest was raising bear quotas due to the heavy increase in bear numbers he has observed in the years and believes plays a major role is saving lives of fawns in the spring. Id say thats a pretty straight forward statement not targeting resident opportunity.
Have to leave the shop before you can get stuck.DoubleD I heard you’ve set the record at road and bridge for being stuck the most this winter. Can you confirm?
I'll attempt to answer my own question based on info I just found. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I see:What is the total allotment for G and H this year. In other words, what does the 50 tag and 200 tag reduction represent in percentage decrease for these two units? Just curious.
What is the total allotment for G and H this year. In other words, what does the 50 tag and 200 tag reduction represent in percentage decrease for these two units? Just curious.
Where did you get those numbers?I'll attempt to answer my own question based on info I just found. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I see:
2022 tags - Region G - 521 reg / 34 spec = 555 total
2023 tags with 50 tag reduction = 9.00% decrease
2022 tags - Region H - 1500 reg / 58 spec = 1558 total
2023 tags with 200 tag reduction = 9.46% decrease
I would have thought there would be a much larger decrease in tags after this terrible winter. Seems appropriate to have a 30-40% decrease based on the winter kill numbers.
Thank youit's a copy of their live stream
Haha. No one notices. We say it straight up all the time. The real Issue all the whiners have is that we really don’t give a crap…WY residents want 90/10, but they also want to keep all these other built in advantages.
And they think no one notices.
2022 Draw odds on the F&G website. Showed the #s of tags drawn for each point group. I added them up to get the total. But maybe that wasn't the proper place to look.Where did you get those numbers?
Thanks. Not sure why my numbers are so much different. I must have looked up something different.G went from 400 to 350 and H went from 600 to 400. That's the non resident quota.
The number of resident hunters in each region is unknown.
They pretty much are, Gov has to sign off. Never heard of the Gov not signing. Only hitch would be an emergency change.So when exactly will the regulations/numbers be officially finalized?
Question?No one could of predicted what Mother Nature would though at Wyoming this year. And devastate the deer and antelope populations. With that said I would of preferred all those animals in someone’s freezers. No matter what state they reside in. Better to have someone eating them than having them feeding the coyotes. Let’s hope this is the last bad winter for awhile.
The writing has be on the wall for the past two decades. Up through 2003 there were 1600 NR tags for Region G. Fast forward to about 2017 there were multiple cuts which ultimately brought it down to 400 NR tags. Now it looks like 350 is proposed for fall 2023. Won’t be long until you will need to a resident to hunt there…so plan accordingly.Potentially 50 more residents could swoop in to take the place of those non-residents, which negates the biological benefit. It's not about what's best for the unit, it's about what's best for residents.
100/0 that has a nice ring to it!Won’t be long until you will need to a resident to hunt there…so plan accordingly.
Why not?100/0 that has a nice ring to it!
Not going to happen...and for all kinds of good reasons.Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
Seems to me if no bucks were making it over 20" due to the resident slaughter, then G and H would be significantly less popular than they are with NR's.Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
Hey booty, I feel like this may be directed toward me. In my defense, he looked more like 27" wide.Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
Well said.Changes will come for residents in the next few years. Pick your region, quotas will be on the table. You can’t blame NR forever… Go ahead and cut NR tags to zero as you let 6,000 residents hunt G and slaughter every 20” 4 point that survived the winter. Cuz management!!! ???
I wasn’t even thinking of you when I wrote it. ?Hey booty, I feel like this may be directed toward me. In my defense, he looked more like 27" wide.
It's not the game and fish making any of these decisions.Well said.
It appears the only thing WY F&G wants to manage is non-residents. Wildlife management is a thing of the past.
Correct, those commenting don't even understand how the process works.It's not the game and fish making any of these decisions.
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.