So last year there were 25 spike tags for area 100. However, the G&F didn't think about the special archery regs which stated that a person could kill any elk with the special archery tag under the type 2 license. Since it was only 25 tags and archery success being what it is, they just lived with it and let those 25 hunters try to kill any bull with archery gear. Seems like a reasonable solution. I actually archery hunted one day with a friend that had this tag. Well this year the G&F wanted to increase the type 2 tags to 50 but change the special archery regs so that hunters with this tag could only take spikes during the special archery season. Again, seems reasonable since the goal is to reduce the number of spike elk in the unit. But 4 NR hunters already put in for this tag and drew. One had an outfitter show up and plead the case that this hunter put in for a spike only tag with the expectation that they would be able to exploit this loophole and archery hunt any bull. After a bit of back and forth the Commission decided to reduce the type 2 tags back to 25 and allow the hunters to take any elk during the special archery season with the intention that they would clarify in the booklet next year that type 2 hunters in 100 would only be able to take spikes. All this none-sense could be avoided by simply putting the NR elk draw at the same time as the res elk draw. After the seasons and tag numbers have been set.
Another NR elk draw cluster
- Thread starter mulecreek
- Start date
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,364
LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18 AT 12:31PM (MST)[p]I was watching this also and can't believe Talbott can sit there with a straight face while he knows exactly whats causing these elk license issues. It is senseless to cause the Dept extra money and tons of employee hours just to have these issues during season setting, when there is such an easy solution.
At least Commissioner Crank brought up the timing issue, but Culver made it sound like they had to have the drawing early! Jeez, what a circus!
At least Commissioner Crank brought up the timing issue, but Culver made it sound like they had to have the drawing early! Jeez, what a circus!
>At least Commissioner Crank brought up
>the timing issue, but Culver
>made it sound like they
>had to have the drawing
>early! Jeez, what a circus!
>
I will give Comm Crank credit for bringing it up. While it seems to be a simple answer, it didn't get much reaction did it. I thought Comm Dube's grandstanding about mistreatment for NR's and their PP's was a joke. He more than anyone on that Commission knows why the NR draw is when it is and the troubles it causes for the G&F.
>the timing issue, but Culver
>made it sound like they
>had to have the drawing
>early! Jeez, what a circus!
>
I will give Comm Crank credit for bringing it up. While it seems to be a simple answer, it didn't get much reaction did it. I thought Comm Dube's grandstanding about mistreatment for NR's and their PP's was a joke. He more than anyone on that Commission knows why the NR draw is when it is and the troubles it causes for the G&F.
LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18 AT 08:08PM (MST)[p]I'll agree with you regarding Outfitters but not the lost money on tags and apps. Wyoming is not a fall back elk State. It's one of the best around. The apps will continue. This is all about the Outfitters getting deposits in Feb.
marburg
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,003
LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18 AT 10:22PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18 AT 10:19?PM (MST)
If I drew in Colorado, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona and it came time for the Wyoming draw I would buy points only. Same as I do with those other states on the years I draw Wyoming. Wyoming elk hunting is good but its not unmatched or unrivaled in the west.
I dont need more than one elk tag per season, especially when they cost as much as they do in Wyoming, and I know a lot of people would feel the same/similar. It would cost them tags to people hunting other states.
If I drew in Colorado, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona and it came time for the Wyoming draw I would buy points only. Same as I do with those other states on the years I draw Wyoming. Wyoming elk hunting is good but its not unmatched or unrivaled in the west.
I dont need more than one elk tag per season, especially when they cost as much as they do in Wyoming, and I know a lot of people would feel the same/similar. It would cost them tags to people hunting other states.
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,364
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:22?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>If I drew in Colorado, Nevada,
>Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona
>and it came time for
>the Wyoming draw I would
>buy points only. Same
>as I do with those
>other states on the years
>I draw Wyoming. Wyoming
>elk hunting is good but
>its not unmatched or unrivaled
>in the west.
>
>I dont need more than one
>elk tag per season, especially
>when they cost as much
>as they do in Wyoming,
>and I know a lot
>of people would feel the
>same/similar. It would cost
>them tags to people hunting
>other states.
Every elk tag would be sold in Wyoming if the nonresident draw was in June and you can take that to the bank. It's foolish to think otherwise.
>AT 10:22?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>If I drew in Colorado, Nevada,
>Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona
>and it came time for
>the Wyoming draw I would
>buy points only. Same
>as I do with those
>other states on the years
>I draw Wyoming. Wyoming
>elk hunting is good but
>its not unmatched or unrivaled
>in the west.
>
>I dont need more than one
>elk tag per season, especially
>when they cost as much
>as they do in Wyoming,
>and I know a lot
>of people would feel the
>same/similar. It would cost
>them tags to people hunting
>other states.
Every elk tag would be sold in Wyoming if the nonresident draw was in June and you can take that to the bank. It's foolish to think otherwise.
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:22?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>If I drew in Colorado, Nevada,
>Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona
>and it came time for
>the Wyoming draw I would
>buy points only. Same
>as I do with those
>other states on the years
>I draw Wyoming. Wyoming
>elk hunting is good but
>its not unmatched or unrivaled
>in the west.
>
>I dont need more than one
>elk tag per season, especially
>when they cost as much
>as they do in Wyoming,
>and I know a lot
>of people would feel the
>same/similar. It would cost
>them tags to people hunting
>other states.
I think a lot of people would do the same but still every elk tag in Wyo would be sold. If you think that people would just buy points and tags would go under-subscribed then you just aren't looking at the math. I will say that NR's might see slightly better draw odds as some go for points over the tag but to say that tags will go undrawn is not correct. This is the same line of BS that the Outfitters try to pull on the Comms any time moving the draw date back is brought up. It simply does not add up.
>AT 10:22?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-18
>AT 10:19?PM (MST)
>
>If I drew in Colorado, Nevada,
>Utah, New Mexico, or Arizona
>and it came time for
>the Wyoming draw I would
>buy points only. Same
>as I do with those
>other states on the years
>I draw Wyoming. Wyoming
>elk hunting is good but
>its not unmatched or unrivaled
>in the west.
>
>I dont need more than one
>elk tag per season, especially
>when they cost as much
>as they do in Wyoming,
>and I know a lot
>of people would feel the
>same/similar. It would cost
>them tags to people hunting
>other states.
I think a lot of people would do the same but still every elk tag in Wyo would be sold. If you think that people would just buy points and tags would go under-subscribed then you just aren't looking at the math. I will say that NR's might see slightly better draw odds as some go for points over the tag but to say that tags will go undrawn is not correct. This is the same line of BS that the Outfitters try to pull on the Comms any time moving the draw date back is brought up. It simply does not add up.
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,349
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p]What are the reasons/ justification being used to keep the NR elk draw dates in January?
Also I remember a few years ago they moved the NR deer/antelope date from march 15 to May to match up with the resident date and spring counts why not elk?
Also I remember a few years ago they moved the NR deer/antelope date from march 15 to May to match up with the resident date and spring counts why not elk?
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,364
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18
>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>
>What are the reasons/ justification being
>used to keep the NR
>elk draw dates in January?
>
>Also I remember a few years
>ago they moved the NR
>deer/antelope date from march 15
>to May to match up
>with the resident date and
>spring counts why not elk?
>
No matter what is said by G&F Admins, it is WYOGA that keeps the elk drawing early. In other words, politics getting in the way of proper management once again.
>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>
>What are the reasons/ justification being
>used to keep the NR
>elk draw dates in January?
>
>Also I remember a few years
>ago they moved the NR
>deer/antelope date from march 15
>to May to match up
>with the resident date and
>spring counts why not elk?
>
No matter what is said by G&F Admins, it is WYOGA that keeps the elk drawing early. In other words, politics getting in the way of proper management once again.
LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-18 AT 07:52AM (MST)[p]>No matter what is said by
>G&F Admins, it is WYOGA
>that keeps the elk drawing
>early. In other words, politics
>getting in the way of
>proper management once again.
Yep, all the WYOGA give a rat's azz about is themselves and money! Unfortunately money and politics rules the roost in a lot of decisions that are made and this early elk draw is probably the most glaring of them all!
>G&F Admins, it is WYOGA
>that keeps the elk drawing
>early. In other words, politics
>getting in the way of
>proper management once again.
Yep, all the WYOGA give a rat's azz about is themselves and money! Unfortunately money and politics rules the roost in a lot of decisions that are made and this early elk draw is probably the most glaring of them all!
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18
>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>
>What are the reasons/ justification being
>used to keep the NR
>elk draw dates in January?
>
>Also I remember a few years
>ago they moved the NR
>deer/antelope date from march 15
>to May to match up
>with the resident date and
>spring counts why not elk?
>
The reason that was done was because the applications went from being paper copies that had to be entered into a database to the hunter entering the applications online. Because of this there no longer was the need to have an additional 2 1/2 months for employees to enter the application data.
It was a few years between the paper applications and the online applications where the deadline to apply remained March 15 but eventually the deadline date got moved to May 31.
ClearCreek
>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>
>What are the reasons/ justification being
>used to keep the NR
>elk draw dates in January?
>
>Also I remember a few years
>ago they moved the NR
>deer/antelope date from march 15
>to May to match up
>with the resident date and
>spring counts why not elk?
>
The reason that was done was because the applications went from being paper copies that had to be entered into a database to the hunter entering the applications online. Because of this there no longer was the need to have an additional 2 1/2 months for employees to enter the application data.
It was a few years between the paper applications and the online applications where the deadline to apply remained March 15 but eventually the deadline date got moved to May 31.
ClearCreek
Cahunter805
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,349
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18 AT 10:43PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18
>AT 09:15?PM (MST)
>
>>LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18
>>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>>
>>What are the reasons/ justification being
>>used to keep the NR
>>elk draw dates in January?
>>
>>Also I remember a few years
>>ago they moved the NR
>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>to May to match up
>>with the resident date and
>>spring counts why not elk?
>>
>
>The reason that was done was
>because the applications went from
>being paper copies that had
>to be entered into a
>database to the hunter
>entering the applications online.
>Because of this there no
>longer was the need to
>have an additional 2 1/2
>months for employees to enter
>the application data.
>
>It was a few years between
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
So sticking with that then NR Elk applications are all online now so why not the same date as residents?
>AT 09:15?PM (MST)
>
>>LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-18
>>AT 02:04?PM (MST)
>>
>>What are the reasons/ justification being
>>used to keep the NR
>>elk draw dates in January?
>>
>>Also I remember a few years
>>ago they moved the NR
>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>to May to match up
>>with the resident date and
>>spring counts why not elk?
>>
>
>The reason that was done was
>because the applications went from
>being paper copies that had
>to be entered into a
>database to the hunter
>entering the applications online.
>Because of this there no
>longer was the need to
>have an additional 2 1/2
>months for employees to enter
>the application data.
>
>It was a few years between
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
So sticking with that then NR Elk applications are all online now so why not the same date as residents?
>It was a few years between
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
Paper applications disappeared so long ago that I can't even remember them and when the last year was that they disappeared!
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
Paper applications disappeared so long ago that I can't even remember them and when the last year was that they disappeared!
jm77
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,364
>>What are the reasons/ justification being
>>used to keep the NR
>>elk draw dates in January?
>>
>>Also I remember a few years
>>ago they moved the NR
>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>to May to match up
>>with the resident date and
>>spring counts why not elk?
>The reason that was done was
>because the applications went from
>being paper copies that had
>to be entered into a
>database to the hunter
>entering the applications online.
>Because of this there no
>longer was the need to
>have an additional 2 1/2
>months for employees to enter
>the application data.
>
>It was a few years between
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
Since you only answered half the question ClearCreek, please give us your answer as to why the NR elk drawing is still in February.
Your response above is typical to the way G&F Admins handle that question: they try to avoid answering it
>>used to keep the NR
>>elk draw dates in January?
>>
>>Also I remember a few years
>>ago they moved the NR
>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>to May to match up
>>with the resident date and
>>spring counts why not elk?
>The reason that was done was
>because the applications went from
>being paper copies that had
>to be entered into a
>database to the hunter
>entering the applications online.
>Because of this there no
>longer was the need to
>have an additional 2 1/2
>months for employees to enter
>the application data.
>
>It was a few years between
>the paper applications and the
>online applications where the deadline
>to apply remained March 15
>but eventually the deadline date
>got moved to May 31.
>
>
>ClearCreek
Since you only answered half the question ClearCreek, please give us your answer as to why the NR elk drawing is still in February.
Your response above is typical to the way G&F Admins handle that question: they try to avoid answering it
I think WYOGA has been pretty open about their desire to have clients financially vested in their hunts sooner so they don't have the ability to shop other states. You could argue it's outfitter welfare along with the wilderness rule.
The flip side then becomes, how many hunts would they actually lose if the date was later, if any. Looking at draw odds, I believe it's a real stretch to think they'd lose a single hunt.
The flip side then becomes, how many hunts would they actually lose if the date was later, if any. Looking at draw odds, I believe it's a real stretch to think they'd lose a single hunt.
ClearCreek
Active Member
- Messages
- 286
>
>>>What are the reasons/ justification being
>>>used to keep the NR
>>>elk draw dates in January?
>>>
>>>Also I remember a few years
>>>ago they moved the NR
>>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>>to May to match up
>>>with the resident date and
>>>spring counts why not elk?
>
>
>>The reason that was done was
>>because the applications went from
>>being paper copies that had
>>to be entered into a
>>database to the hunter
>>entering the applications online.
>>Because of this there no
>>longer was the need to
>>have an additional 2 1/2
>>months for employees to enter
>>the application data.
>>
>>It was a few years between
>>the paper applications and the
>>online applications where the deadline
>>to apply remained March 15
>>but eventually the deadline date
>>got moved to May 31.
>>
>>
>>ClearCreek
>
>Since you only answered half the
>question ClearCreek, please give us
>your answer as to why
>the NR elk drawing is
>still in February.
>
>Your response above is typical to
>the way G&F Admins handle
>that question: they try to
>avoid answering it
You, and a few others, have already mentioned why the NR draw is early so I did not see a reason to say it again.
ClearCreek
>>>What are the reasons/ justification being
>>>used to keep the NR
>>>elk draw dates in January?
>>>
>>>Also I remember a few years
>>>ago they moved the NR
>>>deer/antelope date from march 15
>>>to May to match up
>>>with the resident date and
>>>spring counts why not elk?
>
>
>>The reason that was done was
>>because the applications went from
>>being paper copies that had
>>to be entered into a
>>database to the hunter
>>entering the applications online.
>>Because of this there no
>>longer was the need to
>>have an additional 2 1/2
>>months for employees to enter
>>the application data.
>>
>>It was a few years between
>>the paper applications and the
>>online applications where the deadline
>>to apply remained March 15
>>but eventually the deadline date
>>got moved to May 31.
>>
>>
>>ClearCreek
>
>Since you only answered half the
>question ClearCreek, please give us
>your answer as to why
>the NR elk drawing is
>still in February.
>
>Your response above is typical to
>the way G&F Admins handle
>that question: they try to
>avoid answering it
You, and a few others, have already mentioned why the NR draw is early so I did not see a reason to say it again.
ClearCreek
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
