Beaver Unit Deer Herd

I hunted beaver archery for 10 years, and then took the last 4 years off from there. Went back last weekend. The bachelor groups had less bucks in them and the amount of hunters was triple what it used to be.
 
It appears to look a lot like last year. Deer numbers are way down. This time of year bucks are running together, pretty sad to only see 2 or 3 bucks in a group if your lucky. I've also noticed a decrease in the doe population. This unit is in trouble right now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-19 AT 03:32PM (MST)[p]What's the deal with that? Can?t blame it on winter or development, so what is it causing the decline? Have the fish and game done that unit the pleasure of screwing it over too? They?ve done a hell of a job wrecking 4/5/6.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-19
>AT 03:32?PM (MST)
>
>What's the deal with that? Can?t
>blame it on winter or
>development, so what is it
>causing the decline? Have the
>fish and game done that
>unit the pleasure of screwing
>it over too? They?ve done
>a hell of a job
>wrecking 4/5/6.

Don't Forget to Add the Yellowstone Unit to 4/5/6!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
They have been issuing landowner depredation doe deer tags on the east side of the unit like they are candy! Especially in the Marysvale, Junction, Circleville areas...plus the normal draw doe deer tags they issue on top of that. But they don't talk about or publish all the extra does tags given to landowners...

If you kill the baby makers, you kill the deer.
 
Thank you all for just validating my Beaver post from last year!?

This unit has been destroyed, yet it has literally everything it needs to be an exceptional unit.

Damn Russians.......
 
The winter herd that has always showed on the north and west side of the reservoir did not show at all this year.

Did see those deer way farther to the south and west in a much more scattered fashion. Some of them wintering in the SWD Unit.

But yeah I would say numbers do seem to be down some for what ever reason.
 
There is a big issue with the loss of the doe population the past few years. Especially on the north end of the unit. It is not good, and the crash has only begun in my opinion. If something is not done, and done quickly, this unit will never rebound. The answer is not shortening the hunt, or less buck tags either, The doe issue needs to be resolved. If you get the number of doe back, the good hunting will return, because they will be having more buck fawns to hunt. There is some beautiful country that used to hold deer, that I have hiked into last year and this year, and not even seen 1 doe. The deer did not show up on the north west part of the winter range last year either. Canyons that usually hold 30 to 40 wintering deer had none. The problem has to either be a disease or predators or both, because the doe deer are being effected.
 
>There is a big issue with
>the loss of the doe
>population the past few years.
> Especially on the north
>end of the unit.
>It is not good, and
>the crash has only begun
>in my opinion. If
>something is not done, and
>done quickly, this unit will
>never rebound. The answer
>is not shortening the hunt,
>or less buck tags either,
>The doe issue needs to
>be resolved. If you
>get the number of doe
>back, the good hunting will
>return, because they will be
>having more buck fawns to
>hunt. There is some
>beautiful country that used to
>hold deer, that I have
>hiked into last year and
>this year, and not even
>seen 1 doe. The
>deer did not show up
>on the north west part
>of the winter range last
>year either. Canyons that
>usually hold 30 to 40
>wintering deer had none.
>The problem has to either
>be a disease or predators
>or both, because the doe
>deer are being effected.

I agree and believe you are spot on with your theory. I hunted it last year and had three trips out during prime hours that I never saw a single deer!
Although I do agree, it definitely wouldn't hurt to cut some buck tags and possibly save some of those bucks to breed the few does that still roam the mountain.
 
Too many utards.....


497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
>Too many utards.....
>
>
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg


FACT......they're everywhere.....back of trucks, arrows nocked while driving a side x side, cruising closed roads.....unreal.....and they wonder why the hunting has suffered.

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
I have to admit I do not get into most of the unit, but I can not imagine not seeing a single deer in 3 days of looking during prime time.

Even now in the areas I kick around in there is no way I can ?not? spot a deer or two on any given day, over a pretty big chunk of land from 7000 foot Pinion hills to 5000 foot sage flats.
 
>I have to admit I do
>not get into most of
>the unit, but I can
>not imagine not seeing a
>single deer in 3 days
>of looking during prime time.
>
>
>Even now in the areas I
>kick around in there is
>no way I can ?not?
>spot a deer or two
>on any given day, over
>a pretty big chunk of
>land from 7000 foot Pinion
>hills to 5000 foot sage
>flats.


Now you've gone and started something!
 
One more Unit that's been FUBARED!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I have to admit I do
>not get into most of
>the unit, but I can
>not imagine not seeing a
>single deer in 3 days
>of looking during prime time.
>
>
>Even now in the areas I
>kick around in there is
>no way I can ?not?
>spot a deer or two
>on any given day, over
>a pretty big chunk of
>land from 7000 foot Pinion
>hills to 5000 foot sage
>flats.

I didn't says "days", I said "trips out" mean a single evening or morning of glassing, and yes that is true.
 
>I didn't says "days", I said
>"trips out" mean a single
>evening or morning of glassing,
>and yes that is true.
>

I am not saying I don't believe that you can't spot any deer where you are looking.

I agree the numbers in the the unit do seem to be down.

Just saying where I kick around it would be hard ?not? to spot a deer given 2 hours of looking early morning or late evening on any given day.
 
I agree with everyones comments and glad it is not just me.

First, I have also been onto the Eastern side of the Beaver several times and the deer population is in terrible condition. All of that prime feed and no deer. I went into some areas that have always held deer in the summer and found very few deer. The doe population seems to be way down, which would make sense if they continue to issue so many depredation tags on the east side.

I do not know when they make the counts for issuing tags, but the East side is pretty much ruined. I thought the smaller units was supposed to make it easier to manage the deer herd. Hunters on this forum have been warning of this decline for years. Not sure anyone has listened. Now they are issuing tags for animals that do not exist.

What is the solution when the buck ratio drops below 10 bucks per 100 doe? And even worse when you can't even find 100 doe!
 
I'm regretting passing a 140? 4x4 at 30 yards opening day, now. He looks like a giant compared to what I'm seeing now. :)

BOHNTR )))---------->
 
Thats the problem with managing a buck doe ratio, when the doe herd is not there anymore, it does not take many bucks to get to 17:100 ratio. There are places on the Beaver, where I know I can go see some deer if I want to, but last year, my boys and I walked in 2 to 3 miles during the muzz hunt on a beautiful morning and did not see a doe. Plenty of elk, but no deer. This area has never held a ton of deer, but usually a guy would have saw 10-20 deer on this hike. I have hunted it off and on for 35 years, and have always seen some deer on this hike until last year.
 
I was doing the math and counting hunting with my daughter we have hunted the Beaver unit eleven of the past 13 years. Last year scouting areas where we would normally see 50 deer or more we were lucky to see half a dozen. The few times we've been out this year it was the same way. Four of my kids have muzzy tags this year. For my three triplets it's their first year being old enough to hunt deer. Not only is it going to be crazy hunting with four kids by myself, the hunting outlook does not look good.

The thing that baffles me about this unit is that I have never seen a good unit go so bad so fast. Three years ago I would have still told you it was one of the better general units in the state as far as total buck numbers go. Then last year it was like either aliens sucked them all up in their space ship or the DWR rounded them all up and carted them off. I know the last couple of years they increased deer tags on the unit, but not enough to make that much difference. Also last year feed and water was some of the worst I'd ever seen but it's not like it was better anywhere else.

The fast change in the unit is what leaves me baffled. Something else must be going one. It's probably all those poaching baztards from Milford or a couple of those Carter boys ;-)
 
>I'm regretting passing a 140? 4x4
>at 30 yards opening day,
>now. He looks like
>a giant compared to what
>I'm seeing now. :)
>
>BOHNTR )))---------->


It wasn't long ago you could throw rocks at 140" bucks on that unit and you got tired of seeing them (similar to how the Bookcliffs are now).
 
What's even more worrisome is that they have done absolutely nothing to give aid to the unit, it's like they are completely oblivious to it's problem.
 
4 years ago it was awesome on the Beaver.
It has just flat out crashed! I am stunned at the lack of deer.

There is no reason to be shooting does!

Sad!!!
 
Believe it was my first trip to Utah in the 1960's that I saw the hiway sign by Beaver "Welcome to Beaver, Utah home of the worlds largest population of Mule deer"...or words to that effect...when did they take the sign down?
 
Now everything just says: I love Beaver. Bumper stickers, shirts, you name it. They do have a billboard that says best tasting water in America. Who knew that Beaver water was that good?
 
The scary thing about this, is that nothing has been in the works to try and solve the problem, thus it looks like it could get worse. It cannot get much worse than it already is. There could be many factors causing the loss of the deer herd on the Beaver and other units, but what will be done to stop the loss?
 
The problem with the DWR in this state is that they seem to be clueless as to what is really going on with big game herds from one unit to the next. They are so slow to respond to problems that it's a joke. It seems to take them several years to notice and respond to problems and then they only make minor changes and never do enough to turn things around.

Am I the only one that thinks and sees it this way or do we really have a problem with the speed and ways in which the DWR takes action?
 
I called the DWR and talked to a real nice guy. He gave me these numbers.

2018 deer count for the Beaver Unit. 13,700

Antlerles tags issued in 2018 for the Beaver Unit. 914

Of those tags issued 349 deer were harvested.

Depredations and Mitigation vouches are ??not? included in those numbers.

For what it is worth.
 
>I called the DWR and talked
>to a real nice guy.
>He gave me these numbers.
>
>
>2018 deer count for the Beaver
>Unit. 13,700
>
>Antlerles tags issued in 2018 for
>the Beaver Unit. 914
>
>Of those tags issued 349 deer
>were harvested.
>
>Depredations and Mitigation vouches are
>??not? included in those numbers.
>
>
>For what it is worth.

So?

In 2018 We know We've got a Problem & knew it Well before 2018!

But We keep Shootin F'N Does!

GOOD GAWD A MIGHTY!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I called the DWR and talked
>to a real nice guy.
>He gave me these numbers.
>
>
>2018 deer count for the Beaver
>Unit. 13,700
>
>Antlerles tags issued in 2018 for
>the Beaver Unit. 914
>
>Of those tags issued 349 deer
>were harvested.
>
>Depredations and Mitigation vouches are
>??not? included in those numbers.
>
>
>For what it is worth.

Those numbers seem so far away from reality!
I muzzy hunted that unit in 2018 and also made two prior scouting trips.
I spent 4 full scouting days and 7 hunting days. I dont think we saw more than 20 deer total.
I primarily stayed on the north end but made full day trips on east side, then up over the top into the central part of the unit and also spent a day on the west side just north of Beaver (both sides of I-15) and yielded the same disappointing results. (Every hunter we talked to said same thing)
As I previously stated, we had 3 trips out when we didn't see a single deer, period.

If there are 13k deer on that unit, someone had the hunt of a lifetime trying to decide which buck to kill in the largest herd of deer ever gathered into one little honey hole this world has ever seen.

Seems everyone's stories and experiences are all in alignment for the most part, I have zero doubts that the Division numbers are completely off.
I know several people who have hunted this unit for years and even they have been baffled as to the massive decline in deer.

Elk herds are very healthy though.....?
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-19 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]Its not about being happy or unhappy with a unit. The concern is with the drastic decline in the deer population in this particular unit and how it slipped so fast and nothing seems to be done to change it or improve it. In a 3 year period it went from one of the best to one of the worst for buck to doe ratio. We as sportsman and stewards of the land and animals should be conserned regardless of what unit we hunt, Because it will happen again in another unit
 
Slam I took a drive early one morning by myself a couple of weeks ago. I stayed on the main road the whole time.

Got on the main road at Adamsville that goes up the east side of the Mineral Mountains,, starting a at day light heading north.

Went past Cherry Creek, up around the north east side of Cunningham, coming out on the freeway at Sulferdale at about 10:00 am.

Only brought my binoculars stopped and glassed 5 or 6 times at some favorite places.

Got out twice and walked a few hundred yards crisscrossing a couple of trails that I know are historically heavily used by deer.

A thunder storm had gone through a couple of days before my drive, and their were quite a few fresh tracks there and random tracks crossing the road all along the drive.

I did not keep an exact count, but thinking back I would say I saw around
30 head of deer. Mostly does and fawns. I could only put horns on 4 , and 2 of those were ok bucks hanging in that
strip of Aspens on Cunningham. A couple of the Fawns were super young.

Did not see any Elk, but did see a few tracks crossing the road.

Also saw a dozen Antelope and one of them was a real nice buck.

Plus a handful of so called wild horses, and some Turkeys and Blue Grouse.



The feed was off the charts even though there is a million cows all along that route,, as usual.

I was pretty disappointed in the numbers that I did see.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-19
>AT 09:09?PM (MST)
>
>Its not about being happy or
>unhappy with a unit.
>The concern is with the
>drastic decline in the deer
>population in this particular unit
>and how it slipped so
>fast and nothing seems to
>be done to change it
>or improve it. In
>a 3 year period it
>went from one of the
>best to one of the
>worst for buck to doe
>ratio. We as sportsman
>and stewards of the land
>and animals should be conserned
>regardless of what unit we
>hunt, Because it will happen
>again in another unit

Thank you, you are spot on.
It has nothing about "being happy" like you stated, it's about being concerned.

As for moving on, of course I did, but that isn't going to effect the unit in the least bit and isn't the point of the discussion.

Something is happening on that unit that isn't good.
The people behind their computers shuffling and manipulating numbers can't see like the one's with dirt on their feet and sore eyes from glassing do.
 
>Slam I took a drive early
>one morning by myself a
>couple of weeks ago. I
>stayed on the main road
>the whole time.
>
>Got on the main road at
>Adamsville that goes up the
>east side of the Mineral
>Mountains,, starting a at day
>light heading north.
>
>Went past Cherry Creek, up around
>the north east side of
>Cunningham, coming out on the
>freeway at Sulferdale at about
>10:00 am.
>
>Only brought my binoculars stopped and
>glassed 5 or 6 times
>at some favorite places.
>
>Got out twice and walked a
>few hundred yards crisscrossing a
>couple of trails that I
>know are historically heavily used
>by deer.
>
>A thunder storm had gone through
> a couple of days
>before my drive, and their
>were quite a few fresh
>tracks there and random tracks
>crossing the road all along
>the drive.
>
>I did not keep an exact
>count, but thinking back I
>would say I saw around
>
>30 head of deer. Mostly does
>and fawns. I could only
>put horns on 4 ,
>and 2 of those were
>ok bucks hanging in that
>
>strip of Aspens on Cunningham. A
>couple of the Fawns were
>super young.
>
>Did not see any Elk, but
>did see a few tracks
>crossing the road.
>
>Also saw a dozen Antelope and
>one of them was a
>real nice buck.
>
>Plus a handful of so called
>wild horses, and some Turkeys
>and Blue Grouse.
>
>
>
>The feed was off the charts
>even though there is a
>million cows all along that
>route,, as usual.
>
>I was pretty disappointed in the
>numbers that I did see.
>
 
You are right about no deer, but where were you at the big game board meeting, I didn't see any of you there, you talk on monster Mulley but not at the big game board meeting, that tell me all you do is talk, start doing some thing about it.
 
Dog Valley, I see you only have a few posts here, so you may not realize that there or plenty of people who frequent this site that do plenty to help the deer herd including some on this thread.

Nothing wrong with voicing your concerns about what you are seeing.

What are you seeing on the unit, do you have any concerns?
 
I have seen the good times on the Beaver and the bad times, we are now in one of those bad times, I think they should of cut a 1000 tags and went to a 5 day hunt. I don't believe in cutting down the DWR, I think we should join them, help to bring our deer herd back. The DWR has a big job trying to make every one happy, I wouldn't want their job. I would be willing bet that I have hunted the Beaver Unit longer than any one on this post.
 
I would dare say as long as you have been hunting the Beaver, people on this form have been attending meetings and voicing their opinion to the dwr. It's hard to get on board when year after year nothing is done and the unit continues to decline.
 
I agree something need to be done, I would like to see more people (hunters) at the Big Game Board Meeting, to express their concerns, last year was a joke no one push for the 500 tags for the Beaver, the chair rack for southern rack didn't fight hard enough to cut 500 tags. By the way I been hunting the Beaver for 60+ years, I was raised their. You young hunters need to fight harder for the Beaver if you want to hunt their.
 
I would like to see this unit split into 3 section, South of junction A and North of junction B, West of I-15 would be C, they could managed it a lot better, what do you hunters think of this ?
 
Ron thanks for posting up on here. I for one would love to hear your opinion on some of this stuff.

This place really needs some fresh ?old blood?.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-24-19 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]Not really sure what breaking up the unit might do to help.

Help me understand why that might help.
 
West of I-15 the deer winter their, lot of private ground, South of junction the deer winter at circleville and the Dog Valley, they got that about killed off lots of open country, North of junction the deer winter along Piute bench and Maryvale, and also south of the junction Rd they winter north of By 20, the DWR can get a better count, I think it just a better way. Another one is a 5 day hunt, when they had the 5 day hunt the deer came back, another one is to managed 25 bucks to 100 does.
 
>West of I-15 the deer winter
>their, lot of private ground,
>South of junction the deer
>winter at circleville and the
>Dog Valley, they got that
>about killed off lots of
>open country, North of junction
>the deer winter along Piute
>bench and Maryvale, and also
>south of the junction Rd
>they winter north of By
>20, the DWR can get
>a better count, I think
>it just a better way.
>Another one is a 5
>day hunt, when they had
>the 5 day hunt the
>deer came back, another one
>is to managed 25 bucks
>to 100 does.

Are You one of the Perkins Boys?









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
Get rid of some elk and you'll see a deer rebound. That country isnt big enough to support good pops of both species
 
The elk are doing great in the unit, they are everywhere. Even with antlerless elk hunts the beaver is still over objective on elk. I see elk where i used to see mule deer.
 
Here's one of the better bucks I saw on the Beaver this year......and he isn't that great, IMO. Funny thing, a 'local flat brimmer' tried to convince me he would "go 180 or so' when I was watching him one evening before the opener. I smiled and told him I didn't think he'd make the P&Y minimum let alone awards for B&C.....he proceeded to tell me his about his vast mule deer knowledge by living in the unit.....all at the age of maybe 25, mind you! :)

18768dsc0011.jpg


BOHNTR )))---------->
 
lol...."180" is the most over used and exagerated number on MM....or any hunting forum for that matter....."180" is a BIG buck...rare


497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
I have been to several regional rac meetings over the past 10 years, and even voiced my concerns about the decrease of deer on the Beaver unit. All that I got in return was the dwr saying the deer are out there, you just have to get out and find them. Ha Ha. Do they not realize that the hunters on this forum are the ones putting there boots on and hiking miles of ground. We are the ones they should be getting the information from, not some formula they have created.

Castnshoot said he called the dwr and they quoted 13,700 deer on the Beaver unit for 2018. Honestly does that sound like a correct number to any of you who have been on this unit for years. I would be hard pressed to find 100 deer on the East end of the Beaver right now. I wish they would take us to Deer Heaven and show us where the 13,000 deer are making there home. I guess all of us who strap on our boots and walk for miles, have no idea where these deer roam.

And then they tell Castnshoot that they issued 900 Doe permits, which did not even include Depredation tags. WOW. Where did the Doe herd go? Maybe that is a good place to start looking. How many groups of 10 to 20 does have you seen lately? I have not seen 900 Doe in 10 years added together on that unit, but yet they issue enough tags to help wipe the doe herd out, along with issuing to many tags to help wipe the buck herd out each year all because of some 3 year average formula.

All the hunters on here have made some excellent suggestions:

Cut tags by a large number
Go to a shorter hunt period
Make even smaller units to manage
Maybe 3 point or better
Quit shooting the Doe herd.
Have us as hunters help count the deer herd.
Stop following that 3 year average deer count, it is false.
Do something with the Elk situation.

I have heard so many good suggestions on here. I thought this was the reason for going to the smaller units in the state in the first place, so that we could try some of these suggestions in some of these units and maybe find a way to increase the deer herd.

None of us want to leave the area and go hunt in another area as some have suggested. But we truly want to see what was once a great unit thrive again. If we have to cut many tags, then that is what may have to happen. I know the hunters on here are truly concerned about an area that could be so good for carrying deer.

There is not 13,000 deer on this unit! There are way to many hunters, hunting to few deer, so it it time to try something else to help increase deer population.

I hope that someone finally listens to the hunters on this forum, who spend countless hours in the hills. They are truly the ones that dwr should listen to, because we do not want to leave this area. We love the Beaver unit and want to be able to roam the hills and see deer. We want that experience for our children and grand children.
 
I would like to know who castnshoot talk too, the person he talk to, their were no 900 doe tags on the beaver, I would like his or her name
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

I called the the DWR in cedar city and their were only 36 doe permit last year on the beaver unit last year 2018, so castnshoot who did you talk too.
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-19 AT 12:55PM (MST)[p]It was 801 538 4700.

Like I ended that post with ?for what it is worth.?

Probably nothing.
 
I think we have to stick to the problem that the Beaver unit has, and that is the lack of deer population.

Everyone I have talked to agrees that the unit is down in both bucks and does.

What is being done about the problem?

I looked at the 3 year average the dwr put out and it shows the Beaver unit with a 21.6 buck to 100 does ratio. That puts them right up near the top in the state.

I don't think the hunters on here are seeing that in the field. I know I am not seeing anywhere close to that.
 
>I think we have to stick
>to the problem that the
>Beaver unit has, and that
>is the lack of deer
>population.
>
>Everyone I have talked to agrees
>that the unit is down
>in both bucks and does.
>
>
>What is being done about the
>problem?
>
>I looked at the 3 year
>average the dwr put out
>and it shows the Beaver
>unit with a 21.6 buck
>to 100 does ratio.
>That puts them right up
>near the top in the
>state.
>
>I don't think the hunters on
>here are seeing that in
>the field. I know
>I am not seeing anywhere
>close to that.

I agree...those numbers have got to be wrong, unless all the deer are congregating in one spot!

Too many people know that unit well and all agree on the same thing.
SOMETHING is wrong.
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

LAST EDITED ON Aug-26-19 AT 12:11PM (MST)[p]>I called the the DWR in
>cedar city and their were
>only 36 doe permit last
>year on the beaver unit
>last year 2018, so castnshoot
>who did you talk too.
>

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/bg/2018/18_antlerless_drawing_odds_report.pdf 33 resident, 7 nonresident
https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/bg/2018/18_youth_antlerless_drawing_odds_report.pdf 10 resident

2018 Total-50 All in Circleville North

2019 Total-50 All in Circleville North (36 res, 4 nonres, 10 youth)
 
>I think we have to stick
>to the problem that the
>Beaver unit has, and that
>is the lack of deer
>population.
>
>Everyone I have talked to agrees
>that the unit is down
>in both bucks and does.
>
>
>What is being done about the
>problem?
>
>I looked at the 3 year
>average the dwr put out
>and it shows the Beaver
>unit with a 21.6 buck
>to 100 does ratio.
>That puts them right up
>near the top in the
>state.
>
>I don't think the hunters on
>here are seeing that in
>the field. I know
>I am not seeing anywhere
>close to that.


One of These Days You Boys are gonna Start Listening!

It'll be Too F'N Late by then though!

BUCK TO DOE RATIO,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH!

Yup!

We've got 100 Does Left!

YUP!

A Few of them Are Bucks!

So Every F'N Thing is Good!

WAFJ!

TARDvilles Management at it's Best!












I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

All these are field deer, they stay their all year round on circleville, Joseph has the same problem, Panguitch has field deer, these deer don't go back in the hills, their also a few bucks that stay their. I had deer eating apples out my tree by my house. So where the the 900 doe permit on beaver.
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

Dogvalleymule

I am sure this guy did not just throw out a number, I am sure someone told him the 900 amount, but for some reason you want to down play everything the rest of us are worried about and that is the LACK of deer on the Beaver unit.

If you think everything is fine, then you have a right to that opinion, but please don't down play what the rest of us are finding as we walk over many miles on the Beaver unit.

Maybe we should follow you and you can show us the spot where these 13,000 deer are hanging out. The rest of us would love to see all these deer and regain faith about the Beaver unit.
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

Just 3 years ago it seemed there were lots more deer and lots of bucks making it thru the rifle season. Skip to the next season and it was ridiculous how few deer were in the same areas, and the lack of anyone seeing bucks. To me that was a drastic decrease in just one season? I don't this the winter that year was too bad. Just seems like that year it really took a big hit...
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

>Just 3 years ago it seemed
>there were lots more deer
>and lots of bucks making
>it thru the rifle season.
> Skip to the next
>season and it was ridiculous
>how few deer were in
>the same areas, and the
>lack of anyone seeing bucks.
> To me that
>was a drastic decrease in
>just one season?
>I don't this the winter
>that year was too bad.
> Just seems like that
>year it really took a
>big hit...

https://www.drought.gov/drought/states/utah
Note Beaver area on map (use zoom tool).
Note years of drought on chart (1012 to 2019) especially 2018. A drought this long is especially hard on sagebrush which is the staple of winter ranges.

https://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/bg/plans/deer_22.pdf
This is the 5 year Beaver unit plan established in 2015.
In several places the low fawn recruitment and poor fawning habitat are mentioned. (See link below to see what has been and is being done to improve fawning habitat and other issues.) Note also that the DWR works with many other partners (NFS, BLM, NRCS, WRI, SFW, MDF, etc..) to help solve this and other problems, so they are not the only ones responsible for any decrease (or increase) of deer populations.

https://wri.utah.gov/wri/map/map.html
This shows the work done under the Watershed Restoration Initiative. It doesn't include all of the projects from the EXPO and Conservation tag funds. Note all the dots on the Beaver unit. Not all of them are for deer, but most also benefit deer. (11 current, 1 pending completion, 4 proposed, about 80 completed)

There may indeed be a problem with the deer population on the Beaver unit, but to claim the DWR ignores it and is responsible for it is misleading and nonproductive.

If you choose to be part of the solution, then show up at the RAC and Wildlife Board meetings with suggestions AND contact your Regional office and volunteer.
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

Why are you up playing every thing, what project have you work on to bring help to the deer, we all know the deer is down, beaver is a big unit, I talk at big game board, fighting for less tags,I would been their last year but I had surgery, I have never see you their, you can't take one day off to go a meeting, but you can take days to hunt, why do you have it in for DWR, what ever they do in your mind is wrong, even if it right. I was hunting dog Valley before you were born, I know it like the back of my hand. I'm not down playing every thing.
 
>Here's one of the better bucks
>I saw on the Beaver
>this year......and he isn't that
>great, IMO. Funny thing,
>a 'local flat brimmer' tried
>to convince me he would
>"go 180 or so' when
>I was watching him one
>evening before the opener.
>I smiled and told him
>I didn't think he'd make
>the P&Y minimum let alone
>awards for B&C.....he proceeded to
>tell me his about his
>vast mule deer knowledge by
>living in the unit.....all at
>the age of maybe 25,
>mind you! :)
>
>
18768dsc0011.jpg

>
>BOHNTR )))---------->

Hey BOHNTR!

That's an MM 190"ER Right there!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
RE: Beaver Unit Dvereer Herd

I made the call to DWR after hearing some the stories early on in this thread about the almost total lack of deer and all the does being legally taken.

I personally don't know anyone targeting does on the Beaver so I did kind of found the numbers I was given to me by the DWR to be kind of strange, but after hearing so many terrible stories about the lack of deer,,I thought maybe those numbers are right.

After looking into it further it turns out that the number they gave me was for atlerles elk as well as deer.?

My bad, should have known better.

I have been in quite a few discussions on MM about the official numbers given out concerning the Beaver Unit.

I have always shown a certain amount of skepticism for those minders as have most everybody else.

Seemed to me the 5 day had some positive effects.
 
Why is there no accounting for depredation tags. I have spoken to locals in marysvale, junction and circlevile that say the dwr has been giving out depredation tags like crazy. Some of those tags have a 1 mile buffer that they can hunt onto public land adjacent to the private the tag was issued for. which I think is crazy.
 
Huntfish, their are 50 draw tags, farmers get tags if the deer is causing damage, they can hunt 1 mile above their land, most these deer are field deer, and they stay their year round, and they can only kill a doe, very few doe get killed.
 
2017 was a good year for us hunting deer on the Beaver. Granted it wasn't as good as the previous 10 years and not even as good as 2016 was for us. Granted myself and a couple of my kids are a small sample size, but I know the area well and have spent lots of time there. Last year was the worst I've seen there as far as deer numbers and probably the worst I've seen anywhere. Last year was also the worst I've seen as far as water and feed. Places that have always had water in the past were bone dry. With that being the case I would have thought the places that still had water last year would be getting hammered by deer, but that wasn't the case at all.

So were the poor feed and water conditions a direct correlation to the poor deer numbers we saw? I'm sure it had an impact but was only one of several or more reasons the deer are hurting. The state did increase tags on Beaver a couple years ago but not by a lot.

I would love to see the general rifle hunt go back to five days. That was the single best thing I've seen the DWR do to increase deer numbers and increase the age class in bucks. Every other thing they've tried has been a band-aid approach with minimal results.
 
>Huntfish, their are 50 draw tags,
>farmers get tags if the
>deer is causing damage, they
>can hunt 1 mile above
>their land, most these deer
>are field deer, and they
>stay their year round, and
>they can only kill a
>doe, very few doe get
>killed.


I don't think "very few" are killed. I've seen quite a few taken by landowners and their family members. And this has been happening for the last handful of years. Eventually it adds up!

Kill the baby makers and you don't get more babies...
 
I would like someone to explain to me why 5 day seasons for deer would be so successful to increase the over all deer population and the buck population.
And do not just say less days hunting mean less deer killed.
 
It is good to see so many that have a passion for the Beaver unit. I think we all agree that the dwr is and have been doing some great things for the deer herd, but the area of concern for most of us is the decline in the deer herd. I know that the Beaver unit is one of those units that a few years ago was considered among the best. Now I would put it at or near the bottom in terms of deer population. Lets put are heads together and do what is best for the deer population. I also like the idea of going back to the 5 day hunt. There did seem to be more bucks during that time. A big reduction in tags may be needed to help this unit. Closure maybe needed to save this unit. I do know that these doe permits cannot be helping a declining deer herd. If we are giving doe permits each year even if it is only 50, why are we also giving out depredation permits by the handfuls.

Dogvalleymule, I will admit I have not done alot in the form of projects to help mule deer. I have always helped my kids with there dedicated hunter projects. But what have you done?

In answer to me not going to rack meetings, I will state again. I have been to two local meetings and stood up and told them about my concern for the Beaver unit. The first time I was told "the deer are our out there, we just needed to get out and find them". Many of you may remember that meeting in Beaver. The second time I was told that the deer herd was declining because the winter feed was dying or dead. This could account for some of our problem and I know the dwr has been working on this, for which I am grateful.

As for you hunting before I was born and knowing the area better. I can only say that you should really be able to see what we are talking about better than the rest of us. I am glad you are going to the rac meetings and fighting to cut tags (how many tags did you suggest we cut at the meeting?) and voicing your concern.

I hope that with the passion that we all have for this area, some of it will transfer over and be seen by the dwr and they will make some major changes in an effort to help bring back what was once one of the premier hunting units in the state.
 
Of course less days hunting will mean less deer killed. Many hunters hold off until the last few days to kill and tag their buck. Two fewer days, especially weekend days, will reduce the number of bucks killed. The Beaver Unit is in trouble. The DWR can see it. They are just choosing to ignore it in hopes that they can continue to sell tags and make money. Close the area. Completely shut it down for 5 years and save the area from complete devastation. At this point, I see this as the only solution.
 
I would agree with Bang. 5 less days means less hunter hours. I read a study where a 5 day hunt coupled with a cut in tags helped a struggling area. The 5 day hunt also only gives the hunters 1 weekend, which also helps cut down on hunter hours. I am no expert but during the time the 5 day hunt was in place I did feel like it made a difference on the buck herd. As for the does, well that is another problem. Bang has a good point. It may take total closure to help this unit rebound.
 
I did not mean to start a bunch of arguments about who has done what for the Beaver herd.

Good to see there are so many people that have concerns.

I see the DWR has raised the number of Lion tags for the Beaver Unit by 3.

That is being done in anticipation of a Bighorn transplant into the Minerals.

If they can do that maybe they can be talked into implementing some of the good ideas that you all have.
 
If you think Beaver is bad this year, you should try Pahvant. Somebody on here said the Pahvant is "pathetic" this year. That is not true. Pahvant would need five times as many deer as it has this year to reach the pathetic level. The poor numbers this year are beyond description.

I have hunted there since 1966 and never seen it so bad. Maybe Fullthrottle is right. "The cats on the Pahvant must have ran out of deer on that mountain and are moving south".

Pahvant should be closed to all deer hunting for a few years to see if the herd can recover. If not, that herd may be put on the endangered species list.
 
>If you think Beaver is bad
>this year, you should try
>Pahvant. Somebody on here said
>the Pahvant is "pathetic" this
>year. That is not
>true. Pahvant would need
>five times as many deer
>as it has this year
>to reach the pathetic level.
> The poor numbers this
>year are beyond description.
>
>I have hunted there since 1966
>and never seen it so
>bad. Maybe Fullthrottle is right.
> "The cats on the
>Pahvant must have ran out
>of deer on that mountain
>and are moving south".
>
>Pahvant should be closed to all
>deer hunting for a few
>years to see if the
>herd can recover. If
>not, that herd may be
>put on the endangered species
>list.

I muzzy hunted the Pahvant in 2015 and actually harvested a pretty cool 170" buck with 2 cheaters within the first hour of opening day.
We spent 5 more day's trying to find a decent buck for my son to no avail. We hunted hard and saw a few 2 points but that was it.
Although I got lucky, I was amazed at the lack of deer we were seeing when the habitat was so healthy and should have held more game.
Sounds like it continues to decline as well.
 
To be clear I have not hunted a 5 day unit but knowing hunters in my opinion 5 day hunts mostly just changes the time frame of shooting a a young buck.
Instead of shooting a young buck 7th,8th or the 9th day of the hunt now hunters are more app too shoot a young buck opening afternoon through the 3rd day.
On 9 day units I have known guys that hunt the first weekend and had passed up on bucks planning on coming the second weekend and did not make it the second weekend so they are only hunting 2 days.
Like i said i have not hunted on a unit that was only a 5 day hunt but I could imagine it could influence hunters to take Monday and Tuesday off of work sense they know they do not have the second weekend to hunt.
That can equate in to more hours in the field hunting.
I do believe 5 day hunts probably save some older bucks that hide up from all the pressure from the day before the hunt and then them older bucks might become more relaxed come later in the 9 day hunts. Also 9 day hunts get the time frame a little later in the season so some bucks might start feeling a little froggy.
Please do not take my question earlier the wrong way I really was wanting to hear some opinions on the five day hunt and the comment "do not give me less days mean less bucks" was only meant to stimulate the conversation.
I personally do not know a lot about the Beaver unit I have only spent a short time on the unit chasing Billy goats a few years ago and we did see a few good bucks but like I said it was a few years ago.
 
>If you think Beaver is bad
>this year, you should try
>Pahvant. Somebody on here said
>the Pahvant is "pathetic" this
>year. That is not
>true. Pahvant would need
>five times as many deer
>as it has this year
>to reach the pathetic level.
> The poor numbers this
>year are beyond description.
>
>I have hunted there since 1966
>and never seen it so
>bad. Maybe Fullthrottle is right.
> "The cats on the
>Pahvant must have ran out
>of deer on that mountain
>and are moving south".
>
>Pahvant should be closed to all
>deer hunting for a few
>years to see if the
>herd can recover. If
>not, that herd may be
>put on the endangered species
>list.

With Proper Management there is NO Areas/Units that should have to be Closed!

PISS POOR Management at it's Best!

You Can Blame Predators!

Cats!

Bears!

Etc!

Un-Disciplined TARDS are the Biggest Predator of All!

Let's Hunt them To Death!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I would like someone to explain
>to me why 5 day
>seasons for deer would be
>so successful to increase the
>over all deer population and
>the buck population.
>And do not just say less
>days hunting mean less deer
>killed.


So you think that fewer deer are killed on a nine day hunting season than are killed on a five day hunting season? Please explain that to me. Sure some hunters may not be as picky and pass over as many bucks as they normally would because they feel pressure to get it done.

There are many hunters who have a work life that they can't escape and get away from during the week. There are many more hunters afield during the weekend. Having only one weekend to hunt instead of two allows MANY more deer to survive. Anytime you shorten the opportunity you are going to have less animals killed.

I don't know anyone who didn't notice a positive difference in deer numbers and age class of bucks after the five day hunts were established. I think the general rifle hunt should be five days statewide just like the early rifle hunt is.
 
Deerlove give some reasons that 5 day hunt works better than 9 days.
I want to hear some logic to this argument, I have heard plenty of people just say they think it is better for the health of the heard for deer or they say less days in the field means less deer shot. I do not know forsure but 0ver 1/2 of all bucks on the rifle hunt are shot opening day.
I am giving some reasons why I might be against 5 days so give me some reasons for 5 days.
 
Here's what I see with 5 day Hunts & TARDS waitin 2 to 4 Years for a General PISSCUTTER Tag:

"""I'm Shootin Something,I've Waited,I Only Have 5 Days,something's Dieing!"""








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
My response to Notdonhunting is that you said 1/2 the tags are filled on opening day, so that leaves the other half of the tags to during a 4 day hunt or an 8 day hunt.

I would think that less tags would be filled in the 4 days vs 8 days.

Just a thought.
 
>The DWR will also tell you
>the 3 point or better
>hunt didn't work. They
>don't seem to have a
>clue.


The DWR claims too many people can't count points and a lot of two points are shot and left. It's funny how the DWR says people can't count points on a mule deer but that it works great for spike elk hunts. If you can tell that an elk doesn't have points above it's ears or that it does have them below the ears, why can't those same hunters count deer tines? Maybe the math is too hard once you get to the number three.
 
>Deerlove give some reasons that 5
>day hunt works better than
>9 days.
>I want to hear some logic
>to this argument, I have
>heard plenty of people just
>say they think it is
>better for the health of
>the heard for deer or
>they say less days in
>the field means less deer
>shot. I do not know
>forsure but 0ver 1/2 of
>all bucks on the rifle
>hunt are shot opening day.
>
>I am giving some reasons why
>I might be against 5
>days so give me some
>reasons for 5 days.

refer to post 87 for the logic you seek ;-)

The reason 1/2 the bucks are shot opening day is because most hunters on the general rifle hunt shoot the first buck they see. So feeling pressure to get it done on a five day hunt isn't going to make much difference from how it is now.
 
I am an advocate for closing the area. Shut the entire area down for 4 to 5 years and let the deer recover. Having said that, knowing that this is probably not an option the DWR will explore, I would like to see the DWR do at least something. Going to a 5 day hunt, three-point or better, or seriously reducing tags would at least show some concern. At this point, nothing is being done except reducing the tags by a minimal amount. I just don't know if the deer herd can survive another year. So few deer, so few bucks, so many hunters. It just doesn't look good.
 
And every time a Unit was So PISS POORLY Managed it had to be Closed they issued that Number of Tags in other Units that were already in Trouble!

JUDAS!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>And every time a Unit was
>So PISS POORLY Managed it
>had to be Closed they
>issued that Number of Tags
>in other Units that were
>already in Trouble!
>
>JUDAS!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

Exactly. When they reduce tags from one unit they just transfer them to another one. Utah's wildlife management is such a joke. They have no clue of what is happening in the field. They send a bunch of people on a unit for one day, count the animals they see and use a mathematical formula from that to give you herd population numbers.
 
>And every time a Unit was
>So PISS POORLY Managed it
>had to be Closed they
>issued that Number of Tags
>in other Units that were
>already in Trouble!
>
>JUDAS!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D

And the beat goes on!
ALL of the problems and solutions center around the number of bucks/bulls killed via the tag numbers and the fewer killed, the better off the "units", "herds", "areas", "hunts", "quality/trophy/mature bucks and bulls", "success rates", "buck to doe ratios" and "populations" are. If only the DWR could find that magical tag number we could end this "PISS POOR" management and everybody but the "Utards" would be happy, (But since they don't know that much anyway, they'll probably go along with it.) Wouldn't that be great?
 

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