best odds and best price for desert sheep

joebobhunter4

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15
i was wondering what state has the best odds for a nonresident to apply for a desert sheep tag under $100... and if there isnt what about under $200? and so on and if there is a point system there how many years until you actually have a chance at drawing...? and what is up with the montana unlimited number for bighorn? how does that work???
 
Ok, I will tackle this.

Best odds and desert sheep don't go well together. I'm going to round my figures so Utah is like $10 up front if you use a credit card and they have bonus points, Nevada is like $170 up front with bonus points, Arizona is around $130 up front with modified bonus points. I don't apply in California so I can't help you there. Bottomline for all desert permits is the odds are extremely poor but even worse if you don't apply.

Do a search on here for the unlimited units in MT as it has been discussed alot. In one sentence it is extremely difficult, few sheep, less water, but it is basically a guaranteed tag so you would be sheep hunting.

Good luck,

Ramslam
 
I assume you are just talking about the cost to apply, not the cost of the tag. In any case, all are terrible odds.

NM and UT are cheap at around $5 or $6 to apply, but the tags are expensive (NM ~ $3000). Odds are 1 in several 1000. NM has no point system, UT has a bonus point system (there are a lot of people with a ton of points). NM has only one desert bighorn tag, and residents and nonresidents compete for it on equal terms. UT has 2 or 3 tags set aside for nonresidents.

AZ and NV have more tags. On paper Arizona might have the best odds, maybe 1 in 100 or so for some hunts, but now you have to buy a hunting license to apply (will be around $150 next year). Arizona used to have a straight bonus point system for sheep, but now the issue is more complicated so it's hard to give a definitive answer regarding drawing odds. In any case the odds for a someone just starting out are probably much worse than they used to be.

I believe NV still lets you apply without buying a license, but you won't acrue bonus points without a license. I can't give you a precise answer but I'm sure the odds are much worse than 1 in 100, probably more like 1 in 1000. NV posts their drawing statistics on their website, but since you get up to 5 choices per application the odds look better than they really are. Without the license it cost about $15 to apply. If you buy the license (~ $140) you will get a bonus point and your odds will get slightly better each year, but it will still be lottery type odds.

Some of my numbers may be off a bit, since the appliations were due months ago I haven't been thinking about this stuff. Bottom line is you've just got to be damn lucky. There is no way you can start playing the game and be assured of ever getting a tag, even if you've got 50+ years ahead of you.

Hope this helps,
JR
 
Pay your $20.000 now and go to old Mexico... you will about break even trying to draw in any state after license, bonus points, and tag fee's in the 30 or 40 years you are applying in the states. I'm about 17 years into it and have probably invested $8.000 to UT,CO,AZ,NM,NV and Calif ( when stationed there) buying lottery tags, applying fee's, going to conventions, ect...

Cheapest way I know of would be to go bid on a convention tag.

Nate
 
I don't know of a reputable outfit in Mexico that has $20,000 hunts. If you hunt with an outfitter that has a decent track record you can expect to pay at least $40,000. It is almost impossible to find a Stone hunt for $20,000.
 
A few years ago I looked at NV for a buddy who was going to try for sheep and not get points, best draw odds (ie worst tag) for a NR counting bonus points was 6,000:1 (bonus pnts are squared). So without points you will never draw a NV sheep tag. Last few years no one has drawn a NR sheep tag with 0 points.

I think AZ is far worse then 100:

Starting out this year I doubt you can top 500:1 odds for desert, 1000:1 for a good tag.

I am not positive though, I go for rocky mnt sheep where I can but go for desert in AZ and NV
 
roger,

You're right. I wouldn't touch a $20K desert hunt in Mexico, it would be a scam. Lowest I knew of last year was $25K and it was a last minute, end of the season (with an extension from the government), cancellation sort of deal. A person has to be pretty tapped in to the sheep hunting world to even find out about cancellation or end of season (use the tag or lose it) kinds of specials.

Most hunts south of the border are advertised at 3 times that $20K amount.
 
ok, but what state out of them all would you try...like i was thinking utah would probably be best since its kinda cheap and has bonus point system... or am i wrong? and if that would be a good state to try. what unit would be a good one to apply for? im hoping to draw a tag in 20 years or less... so i dontneeda worry bout that for a while i suppose...?
 
Drawing a sheep tag, let alone a desert sheep tag, is very hard to do. You likely won't draw in 20 years or ever. However, if you don't apply you for sure will not draw. If a desert is what you are after you should apply in UT and NM for sure as they are cheap. UT has bonus points but NM doesn't. You then have to decide if you are going to apply in NV and AZ. Both will run you $150 + each year just to apply. Both give you points. NV squares them so your odds grow exponentially. You are over a decade behind a lot of folks though. You should try your luck with those states and put in for any raffles you can, the odds may be the same as the state draws. Realistically, most folks will never draw a desert tag. Many of us still put each year in the hopes of drawing though.

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
$6 to apply online in NM with a credit card. Your card gets hit for the $3,150 tag (2006 price) if you draw.

No refunds on the application fee, either NM or UT.

I drew NM in 2004. Nearly 2,000 to 1 on that draw.
 
If you apply everywhere there are deserts and spend probably $500 or more I doubt you will have better then a 1:50 chance to get a tag in 50 years! Odds are 1000's to 1 and getting worse. Gotta try.

Rocky mnt bighorns typically offer far better odds.

Ramdreamer I never heard how you did in NM? Any pics or the story anywhere?
 
I must add that, as a kid growing up reading about hunting for some reason sheep always interested me. Storys about jack occonor and Fred Bear fired my desire to sheep hunt. When the time cam I was floored to learn about draws, costs and odds especially.

I really want to hunt sheep bad and sooner or later I will get a tag, and when I do I will be the happiest man on earth and, without a doubt, it will be the most memorable hunt I ever go on.
 
>ya but i got a bighorn
>sheep tag this year... so
>i dont need to shoot
>another one...

Silly boy. :) Your personal case of sheep fever has not fully set in yet. I know quite a few people who have hunted sheep and only a very small percentage say that one was enough, regardless of species. I killed my desert 20 years ago and my California 12 years ago (both as a Nevada resident). I am 49 years old and if I could I would trade all future elk, antelope, bear, moose, whatever, hunts just to hunt sheep once more in Nevada.

ramslam and RamDreamer are classic cases of being fully hooked on sheep. They are also prime examples of once in a while good things happen to good people and they draw or win a great sheep tag. The odds everyone is telling you are true. Pretty bleak for a guy starting out, especially as a nonresident. But as has been said, you have to apply to draw. Play the game when you can and hope like heck you get lucky one day. Nevada gives about a dozen nonresident desert sheep tags each year and you know what? They are drawn by some lucky people every year but are never drawn by someone who didn't put in.

In the meantime, enjoy your tag this year. It doesn't happen often so make it count. And when it's over come back on here and tell us again whether or not you want to shoot another one.

There is no cure for sheep fever. Only temporary sympomatic relief. Every year I try to tag along with somebody who draws as therapy. It's the next best thing to being the tagholder.

Good luck. I hope you (and everyone else on here) beat the odds one day.
 
DonV,
RamDreamer killed a hog in NM. I think it was #3 for the state records.

joebobhunter4,
Congrats on your rocky tag, they don't come around often. Apply for each and every state you can afford. I've only been putting in for 3 years and I apply in CO, NM, AZ, WY, WA, MT, UT. Haven't applied in ID, OR, CA or NV. Will probably add NV next year. It is expensive but I will be the happiest guy on the planet when I draw a tag.

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
joebob,

You already beat the odds by drawing a sheep tag in your lifetime. You will probably never draw another, much less a desert. You also, like me, need to get this sheep on the ground before you worry about the desert. (I drew ID California) All that said, somebody does draw and there is a large group that has been applying that are getting older. All we can do is apply and put extra money into FNAWS, GrandSlam, etc that help put sheep back on the mountain. Good luck.
 
ya i got kinda lucky... it was only my 2 year putting in and im only 15... i go to the fnaws banquet in minniapolis and i think the other sheep tag in north dakota went for like 50 thousand or somethin like that... i was lucky... i got it for 13$
 
joebobhunter4,

If you went to MN/WI FNAWS in March this year, you already know who I am. I'm the guy standing on chairs (and sometimes tables) yelling my lungs out taking bids during the auction. My wife is the spotter that extracted the record bid for the North Dakota tag at that auction.
 
do you know john then? my names kyle. im his grandson. i had to speak at the fnaws banquet about the youth bear hunt a guy was bidding off because i did it 2 years ago and i was supposed to "make it sound like i had a blast" lol
 
No, Kautzman doesn't ring a bell. Might know him if I saw him. A memory is a terrible thing to waste, and I'm pretty wasteful in that regard...
 
Now that we know you are 15, that changes everything. If you apply from now on out, who knows what will happen.
 
At age 15, your best odds lie within yourself. Study hard, get a good education in a professional field that pays extremely well (doctor, pharmacist), and wisely invest a good portion of your salary. When you're 45, go to where you want in Mexico and kill a desert to finish your slam. Best of luck to you!
 
RamDreamer... great ram... what are those spots on his coat?

Regarding a desert sheep draw, I don't believe that anyone should expect to draw a permit within their lifetime. One problem is that you can only apply once per year per state, and no one lives forever. Even if you begin young, say at the legal minimum age, you still only get 50 or so draws before you're done. That said, I began applying my son and several nephews in all of the sheep states when they first became legally eligible. If you are just beginning, you should definitely begin applying in AZ, NM, NV and UT. Someone has to get lucky.

Another problem for the future is that human populations across the West are exploding, and resident hunters will continue to put pressure on their Game & Fish departments to further restrict non-resident tags to increase opportunities for residents. That factor, combined with increasing encroachment by development on sheep habitat, makes the outlook for non-resident draws somewhat bleak.

I began applying for sheep tags fifteen years ago, about the time that some of the states began their bonus/preference point systems. I got lucky and drew a Colorado bighorn tag in the mid-1990's, and took a 177 ram. The draw odds then were about 80 to 1. I also took two dall rams in the 90's, the first at 158 and the second at 168, and a stone ram at 170, leaving me at 3/4 status.

About five years ago I finally faced the grim reality of the worsening odds for drawing a desert permit, and with that, along with my advancing years, I "bit-the-bullet" on a desert tag in my home state and took a nice 168 ram. I hope that this does not sound like bragging, but I am proud to have a 680+ slam, with only five rams total. I have been a very lucky sheep hunter.

I believe the advice from the post above is on target for a sheep hunter from a non-sheep state, like MN. Unless you move out West, you're never going to get the advantage of resident odds (which are not great, and getting worse every year), so if you really want to hunt sheep, you need to make some money, save some of it, and invest wisely.

But get in the game. No one can know what the future holds. It may be that as this current "sheep-hunting" generation ages, and more guys face the reality that they can no longer climb well enough to do a sheep hunt justice, that the odds may begin to improve. And if you're there, with many years of bonus/preference points in your pocket, you just might get drawn.

Good luck.
 
HornedToad,

Those spots are not there in person. The poor quality of the posted images is a result of the photos being taken under less than optimum lighting conditions, photos taken with regular film, prints then made, prints scanned on a flatbed scanner and saved as jpeg files and then those jpeg files posted. Sorry about that. I didn't realize they were that bad. They didn't seem so bad when I originally posted them.
 
Ramdreamer, man that is a nice ram! Congrat's, I remember hearing from Kyle that you had drawn but were unsure if the CC charge was for you or your wife.

Great ram!

Above advice is best about studying hard, getting a good job and investing! By far the best way to get a desert bighorn starting now.

Good luck guys,

Still got a slim chance in AZ........

Would settle for my elk bow tag as a consolation prize for sheep!
 

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