Book Cliffs Roadless bison

[hoss]

Not sure my opinion on this, but lets hear what everyone thinks. They have been doing a bison hunt in the Roadless area of the book cliffs, people are not seeing any bison, say its super difficult, and that they have seen the Indians pushing them back on the Rezervation. Most of the people I have talked to have seen ZERO bison. Its not a huge area, and theres lots of horse trails to cover the entire unit. Maybe someone thats actually been there can give us a report?? Is this true? If there is no bison, should the DNR do something about it? I mean they have collared bison, so someone should know...

 

[LIK2HNT]

Nothing like a group of people herding them on to their own property. If I had a tag I would not be happy.
Maybe DFG should fly the res and push them back out. ??

 

[Utahlefty]

I'm in touch with one of the bigger outfitters doing the roadless bison hunts. It's been getting progressively worse over the past three seasons. The bison are moving onto the rez and are being prevented from returning / have learned to stay there during the season.

The biologists largely concur with this assessment and the state is looking into an intervention (restoring points?) if the success ends up being <20%, and at this point 20% is optimistic.

 

[elkassassin]

They Took A few Earlier!

Ya Gotta Realize All The Elk Hunters Push The Roadless Perty Damn Hard Too!

 

[Horsecorn]

I’d like to know who’s saying the tribal members are pushing them back on the Rez. I’ll call them out on that one. (Bullsheet). Did they see Bigfoot too.

 

[hoss]

I think all of you guys have very valid information and good points. I would love to hear from someone who has been out there this year and has first hand knowledge from the recent seasons.

 

[Robiland]

I know a guy who was out there last week for 1 week and saw exactly 1 bison and they were able to take it. In 1 week, only 1. I know a guy who heads out this week to go hunt. I hope they see 1. Its not like it was a few years back. They said back then they could usually shoot 1 from camp when they were done "CAMPING". I think they will be in for a HUGE surprise.

 

[ktg]

My wife had a Book Cliffs archery tag 2 years ago. We hunted for 3 days. Saw 1 bison on day 3, which she was able to take. We met another hunter while we were there. I contacted him a couple weeks later and asked how he did. He said the 2nd weekend of the hunt, the bison magically showed up and they were everywhere. He said it was epic.

 

[hunterinthefield]

I think there is plenty of bison in the roadless they just get bumped out of the unit really fast with all the traffic.

 

[Igottabigone]

My dad drew the tag this year. We were in there for a week and saw one loner bull. He killed the bull and it ended up being a great bull. I know of two other bulls that were killed while we were in there. There are 10 total tags for the mid-rifle hunt. I am not aware of any cows that were killed on the muzzy hunt in the two weeks before my dad's hunt started. Our hunt was a grind -the hardest hunt I've been on, and we feel extremely fortunate to have been able to find a great bull for my dad to kill. 25 years is a long time to put in. It's not a guarantee, we knew that going in. I suspect the success rates on the rifle hunts will be around 80%. A buddy told me before the hunt that it only takes one loner bull to turn into an amazing hunt. He was spot on! It is my understanding the majority of the bison are holding up on the reservation right now. The feed down there this year is incredible.

 

[Horsecorn]

They aren’t holding up on the Rez. That’s where they came from. The tribe has over a thousand head over there. Some of them will wander off the Rez and get shot.

 

[llamapacker]

I just returned from this hunt. I hunted 11 days with an outfitter and saw one track. The bison simply aren't in the roadless area right now. Reports from the biologist say there hasn't been a collared bison (mostly cows) on the roadless unit in over a month.

I did manage to kill the only bison I saw. He was on winter range, outside of the roadless area, and was a good bull. He was several miles from anyplace a horse has ever been. Had to be packed out on frames, and with the high temps not all the meat could be salvaged. A real bummer, but I knew this was likely when I pulled the trigger.

I had a simple choice - shoot the only bison I saw in a place where retrieval was problematic, or eat the tag. With the season ending today it was a painful choice. Not at all the hunt I was expecting after waiting so many years, and many hunters were very, very disappointed.

Bill

 

[elkassassin]

You Got A Pic We Could See?

Also?

Can you Hunt Anywhere On A RoadLess Tag?

I just returned from this hunt. I hunted 11 days with an outfitter and saw one track. The bison simply aren't in the roadless area right now. Reports from the biologist say there hasn't been a collared bison (mostly cows) on the roadless unit in over a month.

I did manage to kill the only bison I saw. He was on winter range, outside of the roadless area, and was a good bull. He was several miles from anyplace a horse has ever been. Had to be packed out on frames, and with the high temps not all the meat could be salvaged. A real bummer, but I knew this was likely when I pulled the trigger.

I had a simple choice - shoot the only bison I saw in a place where retrieval was problematic, or eat the tag. With the season ending today it was a painful choice. Not at all the hunt I was expecting after waiting so many years, and many hunters were very, very disappointed.

Bill

 

[llamapacker]

What most people still call the "roadless tag" actually includes the southern part of the book cliffs. This was added to the roadless unit a few years ago specifically to allow bison to be harvested if they stayed on winter range.

Bill

 

[elkassassin]

I Knew That!

Was your Guide Still Helping You On The Pack Out?

What most people still call the "roadless tag" actually includes the southern part of the book cliffs. This was added to the roadless unit a few years ago specifically to allow bison to be harvested if they stayed on winter range.

Bill

 

[elkassassin]

Check Your PM Bill!

What most people still call the "roadless tag" actually includes the southern part of the book cliffs. This was added to the roadless unit a few years ago specifically to allow bison to be harvested if they stayed on winter range.

Bill

 

[hoss]

So, Bill, this is where I see an issue. A biologist, who has actual information told you that no collared bison are in the roadless area. If there are no bison there, I feel its pretty unfair to expect all these people who spent years to draw tags to go in there, full well knowing they will be unsuccessful. Just my opinion, I know its supposed to be a hunt, and nothing guaranteed, but if there are no bison to hunt, its not a hunt at all. I know on the Bull hunts its a bit different, a few people have lucked into lone bulls or pairs of bulls that are not with the herds...Cow bison are different, if they are not there, they are not there. Im just glad that I didn't draw this year....

 

[elkassassin]

What Has Always Amazed Me On Utah Bison Hunts Is This:

What Do Most People Think About When They Think About Buffalo?

They Think About The Tame Yellowstone Herd!

Even Though It Can Be Easy Once In A Great While in Utah!

It's Getting Tougher & Tougher!

Just Like Any Other Hunt In This State!

 

[llamapacker]

I fully support all the hunters who are unhappy about the lack of bison in the roadless area this year. The DWR does need to step up. Spending several decades of points on a hunt with virtually no chance of success(cows) is wrong. Even though I shot a loner bull, it was not anything like the hunt I waited 25 years to experience. Even though I was "successful", this was not a good hunt.

I felt compelled to shoot the only bison I saw, knowing I would lose much of the meat. I did not like the choices I was presented, but that is life, and I don't regret the decision I made. I do regret being in the position of having to make this choice.

I truly feel for all the people who spent so much time out there and saw no bison. The frustration is incredible.

Bill

 

[treedagain]

So, Bill, this is where I see an issue. A biologist, who has actual information told you that no collared bison are in the roadless area. If there are no bison there, I feel its pretty unfair to expect all these people who spent years to draw tags to go in there, full well knowing they will be unsuccessful. Just my opinion, I know its supposed to be a hunt, and nothing guaranteed, but if there are no bison to hunt, its not a hunt at all. I know on the Bull hunts its a bit different, a few people have lucked into lone bulls or pairs of bulls that are not with the herds...Cow bison are different, if they are not there, they are not there. Im just glad that I didn't draw this year....

I have "herd" of more than a few taken in the roadless unit. Unfair? Is it the DWR'S to turn them loose in front of the hunters to guarantee the kill?

Your drawing the opportunity to hunt, not a sure thing.

 

[Vanilla]

It’s fair to ask why the Wildlife Board (not the DWR…) offered a hunt void of animals. I do not support reinstating points AGAIN for bison hunters that had their chance, but I do think there needs to be transparency about the real conditions out there.

I think the bigger question is why is it void of animals all the sudden? This was the hot ticket bison tag in many circles just 2-3 years ago.

 

[hoss]

That's a very good point Vanilla. I have a bit of experience in the unit, and I feel that the extreme pressure in the area is a big deal. If you look at the roadless area, it is not very big in all reality. Its very accessible, lots of good maintained horse trails and lots and lots of horse people. With deer and elk hunts, and bison hunts, there is tons of people. Every hunter has several others with them participating, and animals get smart and go to where there is no pressure...Its a sad situation for those with tags. Like I said at first I'm not real sure of what my opinion is on the situation. This is one of the best most civilized discussions I've seen on this forum. I dont really think I would support reinstating points again either.

 

[JakeH]

It’s fair to ask why the Wildlife Board (not the DWR…) offered a hunt void of animals. I do not support reinstating points AGAIN for bison hunters that had their chance, but I do think there needs to be transparency about the real conditions out there.

I think the bigger question is why is it void of animals all the sudden? This was the hot ticket bison tag in many circles just 2-3 years ago.

Did the WB make this hunt when the dwr wasn't suggesting it? I don't know the answer to that but I highly doubt it.

 

[Vanilla]

I’m sure it was recommended, but the WB does things all the time against DWR recommendations.

If there is a hunt available, the wildlife board approved it. No other way around it, no matter who was for or against, the buck stops with them.

 

[JakeH]

I’m sure it was recommended, but the WB does things all the time against DWR recommendations.

If there is a hunt available, the wildlife board approved it. No other way around it, no matter who was for or against, the buck stops with them.

Lmao, so the dwr has no blame at all in this matter? (Not that there is any blame to hand out)

I would say your point is valid if the dwr recommended to not have a hunt. And the WB just over ruled them. But I seriously doubt that happened.

Your bias is showing Vanilla.

 

[elkassassin]

You're In BIG Trouble Now JakeH!

Lmao, so the dwr has no blame at all in this matter? (Not that there is any blame to hand out)

I would say your point is valid if the dwr recommended to not have a hunt. And the WB just over ruled them. But I seriously doubt that happened.

Your bias is showing Vanilla.

 

[Vanilla]

Your bias is showing Vanilla.

My bias or my knowledge of how Utah’s system works?

If we are talking about who is responsible for authorizing hunts in Utah, there is no debate who does that.

However, I asked a question why the animals are all the sudden gone which had nothing to do with this faux argument that all the sudden popped up here. And the DWR may carry a good portion of blame in that answer. I’d like to know more about that than debating who has the power to authorize hunts in Utah and who doesn’t. That’s a dumb argument.

 

[JakeH]

My bias or my knowledge of how Utah’s system works?

If we are talking about who is responsible for authorizing hunts in Utah, there is no debate who does that.

However, I asked a question why the animals are all the sudden gone which had nothing to do with this faux argument that all the sudden popped up here. And the DWR may carry a good portion of blame in that answer. I’d like to know more about that than debating who has the power to authorize hunts in Utah and who doesn’t. That’s a dumb argument.

The whole thing is a system, it's not just the WB. You have a beef with the board and that's fine. But let's call a fair game.

I bet there is a lot more involved in this issue that would make it difficult for us to allocate blame to either party.

 

[Vanilla]

The whole thing is a system, it's not just the WB. You have a beef with the board and that's fine. But let's call a fair game.

I bet there is a lot more involved in this issue that would make it difficult for us to allocate blame to either party.

I honestly didn’t know saying the Wildlife Board is who approved hunts would be controversial.

Like, that’s a totally objective fact. We have lots of opinions that can be debated until we are blue in the face, but this is not one of those things.

We all have biases and beefs, it appears.

Oh well.

 

[jims]

It's pretty evident that hunting pressure pushes the majority of bison out of the roadless area and onto adjacent Indian Res where they aren't pressured.

The DWR has added additional tags and seasons just about every year to this and all the other bison hunts in Utah. The quality experience isn't what it was when these hunts originated.

There are now short season dates that run from August through January! Additional tags with an increase in hunting pressure plus shorter season dates puts a heck of a lot of hunting pressure on bison.

I really think Utah needs to re-consider the season structure and hunting pressure on these once in a lifetime hunts.

 

[johnnycake]

I really think people need to accept that hunting is an opportunity to kill, and regardless of how long a person applies it should never be magically converted into a guaranteed kill.

80% harvest is fantastically high. 50-60% is pretty frickin good

 

[Vanilla]

I really think people need to accept that hunting is an opportunity to kill, and regardless of how long a person applies it should never be magically converted into a guaranteed kill.

80% harvest is fantastically high. 50-60% is pretty frickin good

Shout it from the roof tops! I’ll never understand how it became anything different. Us people are a weird and entitled species, for real.

That said, if the DWR is recommending and Board is offering (does that pass approval, Jake?) a OIL hunt that the animals are non-existent and they know that is the case, that is problematic.

I still would like to understand how that happened better.

 

[johnnycake]

Shout it from the roof tops! I’ll never understand how it became anything different. Us people are a weird and entitled species, for real.

That said, if the DWR is recommending and Board is offering (does that pass approval, Jake?) a OIL hunt that the animals are non-existent and they know that is the case, that is problematic.

I still would like to understand how that happened better.

Caveat emptor. I'm fine with it

 

[Vanilla]

You’re not wrong.

 

[Vanilla]

So out of curiosity, I looked at the harvest statistics on the roadless bison hunt on the Books the last 3 years.

2020 had 96% success rates across all hunts.

2021 had 83% success rate across all hunts.

2022 tag numbers were doubled, and success rates across all hunts was still 77%. (Muzzy hunt had the lowest success rate at 67%. Archery was 86%. Any weapon was 79%.)

I don’t know the justification for doubling permits, but I’m not going to criticize a hunt that the last three years has produced an 82% success rate and the lowest year being 77%. If we can give more permits for an OIL species and still have 77% success rate, sign me up! Animals not being on the landscape appears to be a new development this year, not something that has happened in the past. Not sure how the DWR can be blamed for that. (Just for Jake!) And I’m not blaming the board for approving tags on an ~80% success rate hunt either. (For actual factual purposes.)

It sucks for tag holders when hunts don’t pan out due to conditions beyond their control. I honestly believe that. I guess it’s why we call it “hunting” and not “killing” though. And this year’s new reality should be instructive to both the Wildlife Board when they approve permit numbers and applicants when we apply.

 

[JakeH]

I honestly didn’t know saying the Wildlife Board is who approved hunts would be controversial.

Like, that’s a totally objective fact. We have lots of opinions that can be debated until we are blue in the face, but this is not one of those things.

We all have biases and beefs, it appears.

Oh well.

Lol, com on dude, you do realize we can go back and read what you said right? I know your a Lawyer but you can't talk your way out of this one.

Here let me bring it back for you.

It’s fair to ask why the Wildlife Board (not the DWR…) offered a hunt void of animals. I do not support reinstating points AGAIN for bison hunters that had their chance, but I do think there needs to be transparency about the real conditions out there.

You was clearly not just pointing out who approved hunts, I mean you specifically made it a point to say the DWR was not to blame.

I was just pointing out, that unless they went completely Rouge and made the hunt against the dwr recommendations then this was not the WB's blame. It's a team effort and +90% of the time the wb passes what the dwr recommends.

I am done arguing this, but from what it sounds like, this is kind of a fluke of a year, I also do not agree with giving points back. And other than the shot at the wildlife board I agree with everything else you have said V-dog.