Colorados point system

[theox]

So I'm just curious on people opinion on colorados point system. I was wondering how many of you like the the fact that only the high point holders can draw a tag. Does it discourage you from putting in for certain units knowing you certainly cannot ever draw that tag?

I personally like utahs point system because everyone has a chance high point holders have the best chance with half the tags going to high point holders and the rest dispersed through the random draw. So even someone with no points could get lucky and draw. Which to me is worth putting in for hard units. Why should a new hunter not have a chance at drawing?
Colorado imo would be discouraging as a new hunter/ young first timer etc. knowing u can never draw a certain tag.
There is no point putting in for sheep goats moose etc for a new hunter. They will never draw. Where as Utah you do have that chance.

Anyway I do know many people feel like someone drawing with less points is cutting in line but to me having hunter recruitment and a chance for young hunters also keeps them interested.

So what's your fav point system?

 

[DW]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-16 AT 08:35AM (MST)[p]Sheep moose and goat has a random flair to it here in colorado. Having 15 pts for those three rubs me a little raw when someone with 4pts draws the tag I want, but if I had 4 pts I'd be all for it!. There is a portion of the premium units fir the other species that you can draw with fewer points in a random hybrid draw.

 

[fallguy]

I like CO's system because it allows you to plan - for elk, deer and antelope. If you look at previous years draw odds and allow some for creep, you have a pretty good idea if you will draw.

As for kids not drawing, with an extensive amount of OTC elk units and easy to draw deer tags, there is no excuse for not hunting every year. You can even accumulate elk points and still hunt OTC units. If you really like elk meat, you can buy a leftover "List B" cow tag and hunt for a bull and a cow. Plus we even have OTC whitetail tags. There is plenty of opportunity in CO.

I also think the current system for tough to draw species like moose, goats, sheep is fair.

I suppose if I really gave this some serious thought, I could think of some tweaks but overall I like it.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

I suppose you could argue that there are flaws of all point systems with regard to distribution of tags and fairness, etc . . .

If you were to argue against CO's system, the most notable flaw is that the true pp system discriminates by age. That is, people not old enough will just simply never have a chance at those high-tier units, and there's nothing they can do about that. Older people just getting into the game could be considered, but theoretically they had their chance.

Point creep is not really a flaw in my mind, as it's just a byproduct of limited quota; the more limited, the less of a chance you have to draw. In systems without pp, this is just manifested in super low random odds.

I have always liked the idea of a system that offers a mix of a pp system and random elements. I would rather have totally random, though, than a true pp system like CO.

The main bonus of CO's system, as noted above, is that you can plan easier. For guys coming from out east, this is a big plus.

I have 3 boys, only one of whom is old enough to accumulate points, and they are at a disadvantage in CO in terms of pp just because they are young.

CPW's hands are tied to maintain this system to honor all of those high point holders.

 

[Deerlove]

My beef is that if you buy a landowner tag you DONT loose your points.

 

[Elkduds]

In CO's units w Hybrid Draw you can apply w 5 pps, for a small slice of the tag pie in the highest point units. Element of randomness there.

I'm used to the CO system, hunted here all my life (5x yrs). I was in favor of point banking, thought that could have been structured in a way to reduce point creep on the highest point units. Admittedly it would have added creep to lesser units for @ least a few years. The offering of an additional early bull hunt in 61 this year is a small bandaid on the arterial bleeding of point creep for elk.

I'd favor a system where drawing any antlered tag would use up all points, or @ least 3 points; while keeping the taking of all points for any 1st choice draw, as it works now. How about requiring half the # of points to buy any license that gets returned to the leftover list, that it took to draw the license that year? And you give up half the points if you give back a draw license.

Lastly I would not mind a license fee increase for residents.

 

[Cohntr62]

I much prefer Colorado's system that takes most of the luck out of the draw. It's fair to everyone. I am a nonresident and 3 of us hunt in Colorado every other year. The system allows us to plan our trip. I can't wait until after the tags are drawn at the end of May to make plans. Where I work, vacations have to be scheduled before the start of the calendar year. If you're going with an outfitter, paying to hunt on a ranch or just booking a place to stay, they fill up fast.
It is ridiculous how many points it takes to draw some of the high end trophy units. The died-in-the-wool trophy hunters won't agree, but I think the number of tags they allocate is too low. They could significantly increase them and still provide a quality hunt. It is a supply and demand situation.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-16 AT 11:17AM (MST)[p]For the NR, the hybrid draws don't provide much chance of drawing at all. Most, if not all, of the hybrid tags don't offer any NR tags in the hybrid due to the 80/20 allocation of trophy tags.

Because I am a NR, I think the 80/20 split should be waived . . . hehehe.

 

[theox]

So seems like most of you like it
My biggest problem is while there is opportunity for younger hunters. We all dream of those top tier units and when you simply will never ever draw it well that takes a toll IMO on dreaming about those units.
Like someone stated before age determines points you have accrued and let's face it a 16 year old will never be able to hunt those top tier units in Colorado.
I wish they would make some random tags there. I understand people wanting to plan there hunt. But even in Utah u can do it relatively easy. Just apply for points and when u have enough dump them. But at the same time you may win the lottery your first attempt and pull a coveted tag which IMO is cool because I have been in those shoes. I drew moose with one point. Was it fair to the guys that have been putting in for over a decade? I think so because they had wayyyyyy more odds of drawing than I did I just got extremely lucky and that inkling of hope for whatever I put in for keeps me excit d
Every year to see if I get lucky again. I think giving new hunters a albeit small but at any rate a chance to draw any tag just makes more sense and seems more fair. Because is it really a kids fault they aren't 20 years older so they could have max points?

 

[fullthrottle]

Point system are great no matter how they are structured. Wish Idaho and New Mexico would get on board!

 

[devobrodie]

I am in the points game in CO, but realize there is no chance of ever drawing a top unit since I didnt start early enough. I do think it discourages some from applying. I personally like Nevadas system, the longer you have been in the better you odds are, but you can draw with no, or little points. I have been lucky in Nevada and drawn good hunts with less than top points. I also like AZ(or used to) some reserved for top points, others still have a chance.

 

[nripepi]

Basically no one has a realistic chance of drawing those tags unless they wait 20-30-40 years for a tag, so I don't think they should even be in the discussion here with respect to PP.

One could easily argue that a 12-year old has a much better chance of drawing that tag than a 50 year old with 0 points. The 12-year old just has to be patient and in 30-40 years they will draw the best tag in the state while the 50 year old would be 80-90 years old before hunting elk in the NW units.

I think it is a very fair system and the only two things I would consider changing are:

1) allow averaging of points
2) possibly allow point-banking

 

[zekers]

I like knowing when I will draw. I have mine, my wife, family, friends hunts planned (for the most part) for the next few years. The biggest thing I see continuously is the over publication of a few select units. Just look at what units the majority put in for. Yeah, point creep will jump for those couple units. Most of us will never hunt 2, 10, 201 for elk, who cares. For 0-2 points, I can hunt numerous units with bulls to 330, and occasionally to 350. The same 0-2 points will get great deer hunts for 180+ class deer. Do the research, build a couple points so you can get out of the OTC units, and have a great hunt. Good luck on the draws this year!

 

[tailchasers]

I am ok with the points system but feel a few modifications would be beneficial that would increase opportunity while decreasing point creep. However knowing how the commission works the average hunter would have to sacrifice something and as typically seen in the past, get the short end of the stick. So weighing everthing I feel the PP system is sufficient. We typically hunt 0-2 pt units as we find great hunting in the lower tier units while also getting to hunt rather than bank points and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait and wait... This really comes too play after the tag cuts from winter kills complicating the ability to draw a 2nd choice tag.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[Packout]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-16 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]I think any tag that takes 1/2 a lifetime or more to draw should be random at some point. This could be easily accomplished by capping the maximum number of points at say 20 or 25. Once you reach the high level it all becomes random.

If you are going to do points then I like something along these lines-- A unit that takes 0-5 points allocates on preference points. A unit that takes 6-20 points is allocated 1/2 to preference and 1/2 to random (bonus system). A unit that takes more than 20 points is random.

Point systems are great for the applicants that are eligible to apply at the arbitrary point in time when the point system is implemented. Point systems stink for the people who come along later and can never reach the top levels unless they out-live the competition.

 

[FrontRange]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-16 AT 05:11PM (MST)[p]I think the only way to get the point creep situation under control is to bring back the point banking system. As said in an earlier post, this would make a lot of hunters upset because the unit they like to hunt with 1 or 2 points might (for a few years) take 3 or 4 points. This will take place until the high PP holders are flushed out of the system. I believe when the CPOW presented the idea of bringing the point banking system back this year, the general public opinion shot it down because of this reason. You can't all of a sudden tell the guy who has accumulated 20 preference points and about to draw a certain tag that his chance just got cut in half because they are making 5 of the 10 available tags available to people with zero points.

The other thing, again previously mentioned, is to make hunters use up their preference points when they purchase a land owner voucher. I've always thought that there are numerous wealthy hunters hunting premium units every year in Colorado while accumulating preference points, and remember Land owner tags increased from 10 % to 20% last year (thanks Mr. B).

As far as CPOW starting a new early season hunt code in unit 61, which obviously will take top end preference points to draw, the CPOW representative I spoke to said maybe 50 tags will be offered. Doing the math, 20% to land owners as vouchers means 10 tags for sale to the wealthy guys who do not need to use their preference points, 65%/35% split for resident/non resident equates to 26 tags for residents, 14 tags for non-residents. I don't think this is going to help the point creep issue much as the 50 tags will be taken from the normal allocation of tags offered for 1st-4th rifle seasons that also take alot of points to draw, this only lessons the quality of the 1st season rifle hunt for guys that have waited 12- 18 years to draw.

OK rant over. Sorry

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-16 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p]States like Utah create the illusion that you have a chance. But the same number of people get tags every year, and the same number don't draw, so the odds really are the same. Yes, everyone has a chance, but it is kind of like Dumb and Dumber: "So you're saying there's a chance!" The odds are just dismal. Meanwhile, they rake in more of your money. And in Utah, Nonresidents get the ILLUSION of applying for multiple species, but in reality, you can only draw one tag. If you draw one, you are taken out of the running for any other drawing. So, they make extra $ on every species application when you are really only applying for one tag.

Yes, I would love a 400 bull as much as the next guy, but I love hunting more and in Colorado, you can hunt every year, and draw a decent tag every few years. Guys who only think in terms of trophy units miss so much.

And in Utah, where NRs only get 1 out of 10 tags, many units don't have a "bonus" tag, so it is a crapshoot. I have 12 points for elk and deer, and don't have a real shot at any top trophy units in the next decade.I was actually getting up to pretty decent odds for an elk hunt there until they opened the apps to multiple species. That meant that all the deer people now put in for elk and my odds went to crap. So my odds went south big time and I can still only pull one tag if I get really lucky

So I apply to Utah every year cause "there's a chance!" but hunt in Colorado every year.

If you really want a trophy that bad, instead of collecting points, just put $1000 in a savings account every year and by year 15 you can buy a really good private land hunt. Those are the best odds you are going to get.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[mntman]

I like it, however the one thing that needs to be changed is if a person draws a buck/bull tag on any choice, buys one via any means they USE their points. It would STOP point creep and a person wouldn't have to wait 35-75 years starting from today to collect enough points to draw a premium unit.


But NO ONE will ever want to do that cause they think they will be losing out on being able to hunt and collect points which is the SOLE reason there is point creep in CO.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[theox]

I drew moose with one point in Utah. And stuff like that happens every year! I drew elk with 4 also. In a unit that takes 8. So ya there really is a chance at it.
Look at the odds and there are quite a few that draw early. Maybe it's slim odds but there really is a chance and a few do it every year

 

[txhunter58]

Yep, and for every lucky person with few points that gets a tag, there is a guy who as put in for 15 years that doesn't draw. And I am that unlucky person, frustrated person :-(

I would be more in favor of Utah if they squared the points.

And guys like me also decrease the odds for everyone. This year is not the best for me to get picked due to other hunt plans, so I apply to the Henry's for deer and San Juan for elk. Those are the tags I would absolutely change all my other plans for. And by doing that, I worsen the odds for everyone. I am sure there are many like me.

Since we can only actually draw one tag, I think they should change it to allow us to actually only put in for 1 tag, but apply for points in other species. That way, they get their money and we get points in multiple species, BUT our odds for that specific tag more than double.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[cosmic_cowboy]

What about just geting rid of points like NM ... Lucky or Not gives everyone the same chance.
CC

 

[theox]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-16 AT 06:54AM (MST)[p]
So because I'm 20 years younger I should have zero chance of drawing a tag on the Henry's? I mean no one should even apply there without max points or very close to it if they dont have tags that ho to lower pt holders.
I understand the higher point holders frustration but they do have a wayyyyy better chance at drawing the tag. I don't really see the draws as who waited in line the longest but rather a lottery system that the more points u have the more chances u have. To me that's the only fair way to not make it one sided to only older people but even new hunters have that chance.


>Yep, and for every lucky person
>with few points that gets
>a tag, there is a
>guy who as put in
>for 15 years that doesn't
>draw. And I am that
>unlucky person, frustrated person :-(
>
>
>I would be more in favor
>of Utah if they squared
>the points.
>
>And guys like me also decrease
>the odds for everyone. This
>year is not the best
>for me to get picked
>due to other hunt plans,
>so I apply to the
>Henry's for deer and San
>Juan for elk. Those are
>the tags I would absolutely
>change all my other plans
>for. And by doing that,
>I worsen the odds for
>everyone. I am sure
>there are many like me.
>
>
>Since we can only actually draw
>one tag, I think they
>should change it to allow
>us to actually only put
>in for 1 tag, but
>apply for points in other
>species. That way, they get
>their money and we get
>points in multiple species, BUT
>our odds for that specific
>tag more than double.
>
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)

 

[DreaminOf200]

I am not a fan of preference points. Yes, the argument is that it allows you to "plan", but who really wants to "plan" 15 years out? For CO, I'm the guy right in middle (I have 10 points)...been in the game too long, but not even close having enough points to draw a top unit as a NR.

Yes, I could burn points for the opportunity to hunt, but I don't put in for a limited entry unit just to be able to go shoot any buck/bull that walks out. Point creep is killing me in the unit I have always put in for. I'm pretty sure the first year I applied it took 5 or 6 points to draw...last year none of our crew drew the tag with 9 points (putting in individually, not as a group).

I like NM where everything is random...at least there's a chance every year. Now, New Mexico's NR allocation sucks, but that is a different debate. If a state thought they had to reward those that constantly apply and don't draw, then I would prefer the bonus point system instead of the preference point system, where every year you get your name in the hat an extra time. It would still be random, but those that haven't been drawn for several years obviously have a better chance to pull the tag the following year.

 

[Cohntr62]

>I am not a fan of
>preference points. Yes, the
>argument is that it allows
>you to "plan", but who
>really wants to "plan" 15
>years out? For CO,
>I'm the guy right in
>middle (I have 10 points)...been
>in the game too long,
>but not even close having
>enough points to draw a
>top unit as a NR.
>
>
>Yes, I could burn points for
>the opportunity to hunt, but
>I don't put in for
>a limited entry unit just
>to be able to go
>shoot any buck/bull that walks
>out. Point creep is
>killing me in the unit
>I have always put in
>for. I'm pretty sure the
>first year I applied it
>took 5 or 6 points
>to draw...last year none of
>our crew drew the tag
>with 9 points (putting in
>individually, not as a group).
>
>
>I like NM where everything is
>random...at least there's a chance
>every year. Now, New Mexico's
>NR allocation sucks, but that
>is a different debate. If
>a state thought they had
>to reward those that constantly
>apply and don't draw, then
>I would prefer the bonus
>point system instead of the
>preference point system, where every
>year you get your name
>in the hat an extra
>time. It would still be
>random, but those that haven't
>been drawn for several years
>obviously have a better chance
>to pull the tag the
>following year.

Who's talking about planning 15 years ahead. I advocated for the current system so we can plan for next year. Where we usually go, 1 PP is needed to guarantee our deer tag and with that point, we can plan our trip. The same applies for any number of points. With the current fair system, you can figure when you can draw a tag and plan accordingly. With a random draw, you won't know if you drew until around Memorial Day and that is too late to schedule vacation for many of us and the more in your party, the tougher it is. Seems to me, those advocating for random draws are just guys looking to jump line. As I said in an earlier post, these absurdly low quotas in certain units are the problem.

 

[DW]

The reason there are good bucks or bulls in certain units is because of the "absurdly low quotas". If they gave a pile of tags away for those units they'd be just another unit.

 

[tailchasers]

>The reason there are good bucks
>or bulls in certain units
>is because of the "absurdly
>low quotas". If they gave
>a pile of tags away
>for those units they'd be
>just another unit.


Or worse as some of the units are pretty easy access with limited cover concentrating the animals.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[DW]

>>The reason there are good bucks
>>or bulls in certain units
>>is because of the "absurdly
>>low quotas". If they gave
>>a pile of tags away
>>for those units they'd be
>>just another unit.
>
>
>Or worse as some of the
>units are pretty easy access
>with limited cover concentrating the
>animals.
>
>"Courage is being scared to death
>but
>saddling up anyway."

Exactly.

 

[elks96]

It is bullshit selfish socialism! Screw the points system!

 

[txhunter58]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-16 AT 09:29PM (MST)[p]"So because I'm 20 years younger I should have zero chance of drawing a tag on the Henry's? I mean no one should even apply there without max points or very close to it if they dont have tags that ho to lower pt holders"

No actually, most of how Utah does it, I agree with. It wouldn't make any sense to have tags with so little chance of drawing to use preference points only. It wouldn't work in that situation, cause no one with a few points would put in. But 90%+ of units in Colorado do just fine with preference points because it takes less than 5 points to draw.

Most people draw tags that take 0-2 points and it makes it easy to plan a hunt, so they don't want to change that system. For example, I normally put in for a bull muzzy tag in a unit that takes 2 points. But I put in for a cow muzzy tag as a second option. So every 3 years I can hunt a bull and I hunt cows every other year.

For real trophy units, they would be better served to do something like Utah. For Moose, bighorn, etc, they do that and they are doing a version of it for high demand elk/deer tags. But for the vast majority of the units, preference points are great!

The reason they can do it and other states can't is numbers. They have more animals than any other state.



























5

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[txhunter58]

Actually socialism says all people are equal and should get a piece of the pie. So that would be a no points system.

Points systems says the more you work at it the more successful you are.

That assumes you are serious and not being sarcastic. :_)

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[DirtyTough]

Colorados system would work if you lost your points for whichever species you have a tag for. Then the guys that want to hunt every year can still hunt, and the guys that want to wait for a more quality hunt could build points.

 

[mntman]

>Colorados system would work if you
>lost your points for whichever
>species you have a tag
>for. Then the guys that
>want to hunt every year
>can still hunt, and the
>guys that want to wait
>for a more quality hunt
>could build points.

+100000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are the only other person I have ever seen post anything like that! I made similar post above...

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[ColoradoOak]

I've advocated for the same. You hunt, you lose your points.

 

[Sherlock]

I like all systems in all the states just the way they are because they are all a little or a lot different. It's the differences that allow for the variety and diversity to allow me to tailor my finances, plans and strategy to my needs/wants.

I apply in 6 states. Love the differences in systems and application periods. Other states don't fit my strategy, so I simply exclude them.

 

[mntman]

>I've advocated for the same.
>You hunt, you lose your
>points.

I had a go round with one of the higher ups a couple years ago, he tried telling me there was no point creep the system is perfect and that in about 5 years all of the NW elk units would be able to be drawn with MINIMAL points! He wouldn't respond anymore after I called him a liar. :/

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[lostinOregon]

I personally like COs system. If you want a 44 4th buck tag you will wait half a lifetime. But there are damn good deer hunts to be had for 2 to 4 points. I also know when I'm going hunting. CO is more than fair with their NR allocation and opportunity at quality deer hunts abound.

The problem with all the point systems is that everyone thinks they should draw a strip tag in AZ, a Henry's tag in UT and a 4th season gunnison tag in CO. The fact of the matter is that the demand is climbing and the resource is dwindling. If people fail to adjust they will be sitting on the sidelines and have nothing but regret. There are just not enough premium tags to go around. Most guys are following the print media and not spending enough time researching to find good hunts on their own.

Rich

 

[zekers]

Most
>guys are following the print
>media and not spending enough
>time researching to find good
>hunts on their own.
>
>Rich


Nailed it. What makes a 'top' unit? One guy previously posted a great deer and elk unit that is not on anyone's list. As long as you guys still feed from the 61, 22, 54, 55 trough, he will never worry about point creep. There are 'top' units throughout the state. Quit playing into the points creep game.

 

[elks96]

Just give it time. Point creep will hit every unit and every tag. Some may be slower than other units but it will always hit. Unit 11 was once a 500 tag left over now it is a 3 point resident unit.

The system sucks and should be scrapped. It is totally ridiculous that anyone would favor a system that prevents new hunters from having any opportunity at all for a decent tag. Yes they can hunt OTC, but sadly the unit my daughter grew up in will not be available for her until she is in college.

A total random system is the best. If the NR want to have predictability then let them keep the points and allow residents back to random

 

[Cohntr62]

Don't forget, no matter what the system, the same % of applicants will draw. Looking at the big picture, the odds are the same. What you are doing by scrapping the pure point system in favor of a random draw is penalizing the hunter who has been diligent and patient in favor of pure luck. Myself, such a change, would force me to quit hunting deer in Colorado. Both I and my hunting companions can't wait until the end of May to schedule a fall vacation. If you schedule it and don't draw, then you have taken those days from another use. Don't screw up the system for the entire state, just because a handful of units take an absurd number of points.

 

[Cohntr62]

>The reason there are good bucks
>or bulls in certain units
>is because of the "absurdly
>low quotas". If they gave
>a pile of tags away
>for those units they'd be
>just another unit.


Don't agree. Most normal deer units have hundreds of tags available and lots of good elk units have OTC bull tags and enough cow tags to exceed the demand. Surely, you could increase tag numbers in these "special" units from 10 to 20 or 20 to 40 or 30 to 50, for example. It should still be a quality hunt and would significantly lower the point requirements.

 

[theox]

>Don't forget, no matter what the
>system, the same % of
>applicants will draw. Looking at
>the big picture, the odds
>are the same. What you
>are doing by scrapping the
>pure point system in favor
>of a random draw is
>penalizing the hunter who has
>been diligent and patient in
>favor of pure luck. Myself,
>such a change, would force
>me to quit hunting deer
>in Colorado. Both I and
>my hunting companions can't wait
>until the end of May
>to schedule a fall vacation.
>If you schedule it and
>don't draw, then you have
>taken those days from another
>use. Don't screw up the
>system for the entire state,
>just because a handful of
>units take an absurd number
>of points.

Patient and diligent? What about the people /new hunters applying for the first time?its not their fault they are twenty years younger and couldn't apply like you did. Just sounds selfish of u a little maybe I took it wrong.

 

[theox]

> Most
>>guys are following the print
>>media and not spending enough
>>time researching to find good
>>hunts on their own.
>>
>>Rich
>
>
>Nailed it. What makes a
>'top' unit? One guy
>previously posted a great deer
>and elk unit that is
>not on anyone's list.
>As long as you guys
>still feed from the 61,
>22, 54, 55 trough, he
>will never worry about point
>creep. There are 'top'
>units throughout the state.
>Quit playing into the points
>creep game.

Some are managed for quality. Fewer tags less pressure bigger bucks.

Your gonna tell me unit 33 in Colorado is as good as the Arizona strip? There is a reason they are hard to draw! Because there are more big deer in them bevmvause the deer can get older it increases your chances at a big buck! Can U kill a monster on most units ? Sure but ur chances are slimmer. I hunt huge deer on general units in Utah every year but it's a far harder hunt and harder to find the big boys on those units compared to the Henry mountains

 

[Elk247]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-16 AT 05:27PM (MST)[p]If you hunt deer or elk or whatever you can't gain a point. That's the only way to drastically slow point creep and keep the current system. People are sacrificing nothing by putting in for a point, they put in and just hunt OTC. Why not rename them UDU (unlimited draw units). They would effectively be the same but you still need to use a point to draw them. It would slow deer point creep also, no more put in for deer point and just hunt elk OTC.

 

[lostinOregon]

Theox,

Not saying CO 33 is same as the strip. What I am saying is that if you only want to hunt the strip and henries you will be waiting a lifetime no matter whether there is a point system or not. Demand will greatly outweigh supply no matter if you have a point system or not. I am saying that there are big deer out there in all of the CO units and you would have a better chance of killing one hunting a second season every other year than waiting for a once in a lifetime tag.

Rich

 

[Cohntr62]

>>Don't forget, no matter what the
>>system, the same % of
>>applicants will draw. Looking at
>>the big picture, the odds
>>are the same. What you
>>are doing by scrapping the
>>pure point system in favor
>>of a random draw is
>>penalizing the hunter who has
>>been diligent and patient in
>>favor of pure luck. Myself,
>>such a change, would force
>>me to quit hunting deer
>>in Colorado. Both I and
>>my hunting companions can't wait
>>until the end of May
>>to schedule a fall vacation.
>>If you schedule it and
>>don't draw, then you have
>>taken those days from another
>>use. Don't screw up the
>>system for the entire state,
>>just because a handful of
>>units take an absurd number
>>of points.
>
>Patient and diligent? What about the
>people /new hunters applying for
>the first time?its not their
>fault they are twenty years
>younger and couldn't apply like
>you did. Just sounds selfish
>of u a little maybe
>I took it wrong.

Actually, I don't accumulate points for the premium units. I just like to know I will draw a tag every couple years and have it be predictable, not have to depend on luck and wait until the end of May to know if I/we drew. The random draw supporters want a system where those hunters unlucky in the draw will never draw a tag, even for units that now only require a small number of PPs. For instance, I go to gun bashes with a friend who always wins 1 gun and sometimes 2. He's won 30 in the last 4 years, while I sitting next to him and buying the same tickets have won zero. In a random draw, you will get the same kind of unequal results.

 

[Muley]

I refuse to play the points game. I hunt elk every year with no points and I don't hunt OTC units.

Same for bear, but a buck tag I can only get every other year.

 

[DirtyTough]

For all the guys saying the system is fine, it's not fine. It's broken. Leave it a preference point system, but if you have a tag for a species you should lose your points. Whether it's second choice, landowner, private land only, doesn't matter. That would slow the point creep if not stop it completely.

Landowners receive 20%+ of the tags now. That would slow point creep a lot for deer. Elk point creep would be eliminated.

And for the guys that want to plan they would still be able to. Easy solution. Reduce point creep, and still be able to plan ahead.

 

[theox]

>Theox,
>
>Not saying CO 33 is same
>as the strip. What I
>am saying is that if
>you only want to hunt
>the strip and henries you
>will be waiting a lifetime
>no matter whether there is
>a point system or not.
>Demand will greatly outweigh supply
>no matter if you have
>a point system or not.
>I am saying that there
>are big deer out there
>in all of the CO
>units and you would have
>a better chance of killing
>one hunting a second season
>every other year than waiting
>for a once in a
>lifetime tag.
>
>Rich
Ok I see what your saying. Ya I agree to a point but it sure is big hunting with less people and hunting a unit that produces big ones every year. But good points also

 

[NMBugleJunky]

My favorite point system is NO POINT SYSTEM WHAT-SO-EVER! IMHO, New Mexico is the fairest draw there is.... Every year, EVERYBODY has a chance. Not the best chance, but hey, at least it is a chance.....

 

[smitho]

Personally I really like the point system here that is speaking from a residents point of view. Having said that I do believe it could be better. I am really against a totally random draw, while its "fairness" cant be argued its just not a good system. I have 2 friends who applied in NM over a 5 year period one of them drew 3 times while the other one failed to draw even once. Thats not cool. So how would I change the CO PP system? 1st cutout the ability to apply for just a point, if you cant hunt dont apply or atleast cutout the ability for people with 20+PPs to apply for a point. It blows my mind that there are people out there that could draw any tag in the state but keep building points and raising the ceiling for everyone. Next I would like to see some form of the point banking system,I see our points as a currency that we should be able to spend how we want. The next change would be for Primarily for Sheep, Goat and Moose but could be adopted for Elk, deer and antelope as well. This would be to make an applicant choose a species to apply for i.e. if they applied for sheep then moose and goat would be off limits for that year. I feel like this would make people prioritize whatever species they want to build PPs for or hunt the most. This would be one solution to the supply/demand issue. Lastly I agree that its kind of bogus that one can hunt draw a limited unit 2nd choice and still gain a point. I dont want to see someone lose their points just to put some meat in the freezer but dont think they should gain a point either. And I definitely feel that if a guy buys a Land owner license in a trophy unit then they should have to spend their points to do it. PPs keep the poor and the rich on somewhat equal ground and LO tags ruin that. I have other ideas but these would be a good start.