Controlled Hunt Draw Scandal

[nitis]

Other thread getting long so lets start fresh

First thing that jumps out at me is only those kids who bought a license prior to the draw get the voucher? Why would they have bought a license that early in the year if they were not able to apply so that there gets a thumbs down.

And I know its a tired subject but I as a non resident continually hear in response to my dislike for the system Idaho uses to just get a general tag. So why didn't these kids just get a general tag?

An I know most of you could care less but it will be a long time before I ever apply in Idaho again watching people spend hundreds of dollars to be done this way just is not right.

Yes half the field may have been confused but there were people who knew exactly what they were doing and got away with it.

IF there is still a Class Action suit moving forward I Would like information on it so I can offer whatever help I can.

 

[Idahoron]

I have yet to hear anything about the piggyback guys. When one person is ineligible to draw and it is a group application then all of them are supposed to be kicked out. Out of the kids that drew How many illegal piggybackers exactly got tags???

 

[idelkslayer]

"Yes half the field may have been confused but there were people who knew exactly what they were doing and got away with it."

It doesn't matter how simple the rule is there are enough idiots out there who will get confused. It's called being stupid and you can't fix it.

As a resident I with you that these people should have gotten the same line as everyone else, buy a general season tag!

It was the wrong decision again, Virgil Moore tried to say that 2 wrongs don't make a right but that is exactly what he is trying to do.

 

[cletus14]

or........how many put little johnny or suzie 9 year old and will fill there tags for them. my 2 cents 9 and 10 year olds have no buisness putting in for trophy hunts or for that matter draws. they have youth hunts up the wazzu already. and i am shocked of the success rate for these little kids way too high not to be fishy..........

 

[Juan_ID]

>"Yes half the field may have
>been confused but there were
>people who knew exactly what
>they were doing and got
>away with it."
>
>It doesn't matter how simple the
>rule is there are enough
>idiots out there who will
>get confused. It's called
>being stupid and you can't
>fix it.
>
>As a resident I with you
>that these people should have
>gotten the same line as
>everyone else, buy a general
>season tag!
>
>It was the wrong decision again,
>Virgil Moore tried to say
>that 2 wrongs don't make
>a right but that is
>exactly what he is trying
>to do.

No, it's not what "he is trying to do" it's what he did... For most that stands true, "2 wrongs don't make a right" but the IDFG... Well they're different. I too would like to know just how many tags got drawn off the party apps... However I doubt it'll ever be TRUTHFULLY known...

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

its a TOTAL CROCK !!! they are now saying that there are only 283 tags available BECAUSE 79 of these kids were drawn in Unlimited hunts BS !!! & the other 1500 plus kids that followed the rules STILL don't get their chance at any of these Special Extra tags ONLY those that are already in for the 1st drawing !! when I called F&G they told me that almost ALL of the tags drawn Illegally were on Group apps !!! They can say & do what ever they want !!! HERE IS MY QUESTION !!! the so called commissioner stated right off that it would take TOO LONG to pull these 2500 plus Invalid applicants & redraw before the 10th !!!! {it was written at least Twice by Virgil Moore or one of his flunkies} BUT they can pull & draw these 1132 Special tags & still have them done by July 10th !!!! How is that Possible ????

 

[UGAhunter]

The most likely reason for this decision is that the director has a grandson or granddaughter that drew a prized hunt. He would not want to take his/her tag away!

 

[brymoore]

>Other thread getting long so lets
>start fresh
>
>First thing that jumps out at
>me is only those kids
>who bought a license prior
>to the draw get the
>voucher? Why would they
>have bought a license that
>early in the year if
>they were not able to
>apply so that there gets
>a thumbs down.
>
>And I know its a tired
>subject but I as a
>non resident continually hear in
>response to my dislike for
>the system Idaho uses to
>just get a general tag.
> So why didn't these
>kids just get a general
>tag?
>
>An I know most of you
>could care less but it
>will be a long time
>before I ever apply in
>Idaho again watching people spend
>hundreds of dollars to be
>done this way just is
>not right.
>
>Yes half the field may have
>been confused but there were
>people who knew exactly what
>they were doing and got
>away with it.
>
>IF there is still a Class
>Action suit moving forward I
>Would like information on it
>so I can offer whatever
>help I can.

My 10-year old had a hunting license to bird hunt in January and for Turkey season. Having a hunting license before hand isn't abnormal.

Good luck with a lawsuit. I think it'll be wasted time for all involved. The decision sucks but running to a lawyer is just as bad a decision.

 

[nitis]

So licenses in Idaho run what jan1-dec31? Just used ours that run july1-june30

And why wouldn't anyone pursue an attorney why is that such a bad decision? Rules were broken and the draw was compromised.

 

[brymoore]

>So licenses in Idaho run what
>jan1-dec31? Just used ours
>that run july1-june30
>
>And why wouldn't anyone pursue an
>attorney why is that such
>a bad decision? Rules
>were broken and the draw
>was compromised.

Yes, ID's license is Jan 1 - Dec 31.

I doubt anything would happen from a lawsuit except for some lawyers making money. The IDF&G decision is now only disenfranchising the kids who followed the rules - well, they do get an app fee waived.

 

[ARROWHNTR]

The problem with filing a class action suit is there will be no winners except the attorneys. Even if the few that join in get awarded a cash settlement the rest of sportsman and tax payers will pay for it. The IDFG is already struggling for money, I think the better option would be to pettition for some resignations and a change in leadership.

 

[andrew12gauge]

>So licenses in Idaho run what
>jan1-dec31? Just used ours
>that run july1-june30
>
>And why wouldn't anyone pursue an
>attorney why is that such
>a bad decision? Rules
>were broken and the draw
>was compromised.

You would have to prove that you were in some way harmed by idfg's decision to allow 9-11 yr olds to be included in the draw. Even if you could prove you were harmed in some way all you would get back is your 6.25 app fee. Unless idfg somehow caused you to be disabled in some way and took away your income.

 

[live2hunt]

A lawsuit won't do anything but take away from the dollars of the sportsmen that needs to be used to manage wildlife. But what can happen and needs to happen is a change in the directors office. And this includes deputy directors. Both of them have been the start of this poor decision and the poor decision last year for the rain check on the unit 11 sheep tag. A group is trying to organize right now to create an online petition to demand a change in the directors office starting with Mr. Moore. If it can get enough support fast enough it will be presented at the July 9th commission meeting. It needs support from all sportsmen resident and nonresident. If presented additional sportsmen will be needed at this meeting to show the strength of the petition. In the past every time the sportsmen get fired up they die out and nothing happens. We are writing our future because it just keeps getting worse and they know if they put a band-aide on it we will go away. This is BS Mr. Moore took a bad decision and made it worse. He now has effected the sportsmen that applied correctly and drew tags. He left science behind and went after the wildlife. He thinks it's 1500 that played it right. That's wrong it's 1000's of kids resident and nonresident that played it right. That's 1,000's of dollars he did not have to hand out. He can't limit the ones that did not apply and followed the regulations. All this for a simple decision not to follow the regulations. Oh I guess the book of guidelines as he believes.

 

[nitis]

Ok guys get ready to flame on me

I'm sick of Idaho crying poor mouth. Every year they refuse to take my money by not having a bonus point system. I get it residents don't want it but for guys like me whining apply maybe every 5 years I would in turn have to apply every year. Yes it might cost residents a few tags to non residents via a guaranteed percentage but over time if there is more revenue shouldn't that equal better management of the herds? And better herd management would mean more tags for everyone!

Also they got greedy and raised tag prices. How's tag sales working out for you? Why not cut the price after say mid October and sell some tags get some cash.

Let's see I can apply in utah for two years for half of what it costs me to apply in Idaho for one.

Yes I know general hunt yep there some good ones that all of those kids should be going on along with their parents who knowingly applied them for hunts they shouldn't have.

 

[hornetcreek]

OK, tried to stay out of this one and let you guys cry for a few days, but you just keep running your flap. I don't agree with fish and game on everything but they made a mess, and were up front about it, communicated well and did the best they could to make it right to everyone affected. Get over it. I personally just drew my first antelope tag since 1992, sometimes you draw but usually you don't. If you love to hunt get out there and buy a tag and work for an animal. There are some great animals in general units but alot of people won't get off their ass and work for them. This is what's great about Idaho, just get out there and buy a tag and go harvest some meat for the freezer.

 

[live2hunt]

>OK, tried to stay out of
>this one and let you
>guys cry for a few
>days, but you just keep
>running your flap. I
>don't agree with fish and
>game on everything but they
>made a mess, and were
>up front about it, communicated
>well and did the best
>they could to make it
>right to everyone affected.
>Get over it. I
>personally just drew my first
>antelope tag since 1992, sometimes
>you draw but usually you
>don't. If you love
>to hunt get out there
>and buy a tag and
>work for an animal.
>There are some great animals
>in general units but alot
>of people won't get off
>their ass and work for
>them. This is what's
>great about Idaho, just get
>out there and buy a
>tag and go harvest some
>meat for the freezer.

Glad you shared you opinion and fully understand. That's your opinion and that's great about our country. That's why we have freedom and our right to voice our opinion.
To question that all of us today get off our asses that have an issue with this whole thing and what's going on in the department is wrong. I do get off my ass as well as others that have an issue with this and it is not for you to question it I assure you!
I personally did not have an app in this system for this draw that mattered or was effected but I do believe the regulations are published for a reason and should be followed and I am sick of people not being responsible to follow it.

 

[buckhorn]

Its a sign of the times boys.

These kids are being taught that breaking the rules will get them ahead of the next guy.

They will be off roading where its not legal,
Shooting where its not legal,
Killing illeagally ect...

I could go on but I think Iv made my point.

 

[idfishnhunt]

A rule is a rule...I don't really think you can differentiate between them.

Scenario 1 - What just happened with these youths putting in for tags they shouldn't have.

Scenario 2 - Someone shooting a game animal in a controlled hunt unit, but only had a general tag.

Both excuses could be...they didn't read the regs. Really it all boils down to this. A lot of people...including the director and staff are giving the benefit of the doubt. These 9, 10, and 11 year olds put in for a draw they weren't supposed to because their parents were misinformed, and the regs were not clearly stated (repeated multiple times throughout each section).

Let's really get down to the truth of the matter, in the majority these kids don't really know what the hell is going on, their parents put them in to either shoot their animal for them for more meat, or get them into a trophy unit so they could shoot an animal for them. Neither of which teaches much about hunting ethics and sportsmanship...along with putting them into the draw in the first place.

If they wanted to allow these youngsters hunting opportunities then that's fine, but it should only be for general hunt units until they are 12 years old when they can maybe have an understanding of putting in for those controlled hunts. Meanwhile they are learning the rules of the game by hunting general units...either sex. Instead of being corrupted by irresponsible parents.

Like I said though...in the majority of cases, not necessarily all the cases, because I know there are those legit hunters who have prepared their youngsters for hunting...because they know they are capable.

 

[broomd]

My kids are older now, but have been hunting all of their lives.

I started them at about twelve, and my son is now 27, 6'6", Kate is 21, 5'11"...they have always been tall kids.

At ten they were not big enough to hunt with a high power rifle, nor are these in the hunting pool now.
Ten years old is time to hunt squirrels etc, not big game.
Do you guys have any clue as to how many of these tags are going to be filled by the fathers involved? I'd bet the number will be staggering.

Most of these kids can't wipe their own @sses....
I've said it before, kids are the future of hunting, they should be involved, but ten is too young.
Rant over....

 

[broomd]

>A rule is a rule...I don't
>really think you can differentiate
>between them.
>
>Scenario 1 - What just happened
>with these youths putting in
>for tags they shouldn't have.
>
>
>Scenario 2 - Someone shooting a
>game animal in a controlled
>hunt unit, but only had
>a general tag.
>
>Both excuses could be...they didn't read
>the regs. Really it
>all boils down to this.
> A lot of people...including
>the director and staff are
>giving the benefit of the
>doubt. These 9, 10,
>and 11 year olds put
>in for a draw they
>weren't supposed to because their
>parents were misinformed, and the
>regs were not clearly stated
>(repeated multiple times throughout each
>section).
>
>Let's really get down to the
>truth of the matter, in
>the majority these kids don't
>really know what the hell
>is going on, their parents
>put them in to either
>shoot their animal for them
>for more meat, or get
>them into a trophy unit
>so they could shoot an
>animal for them. Neither
>of which teaches much about
>hunting ethics and sportsmanship...along with
>putting them into the draw
>in the first place.
>
>If they wanted to allow these
>youngsters hunting opportunities then that's
>fine, but it should only
>be for general hunt units
>until they are 12 years
>old when they can maybe
>have an understanding of putting
>in for those controlled hunts.
> Meanwhile they are learning
>the rules of the game
>by hunting general units...either sex.
> Instead of being corrupted
>by irresponsible parents.
>
>Like I said though...in the majority
>of cases, not necessarily all
>the cases, because I know
>there are those legit hunters
>who have prepared their youngsters
>for hunting...because they know they
>are capable.

Completely agree, I'd bet 60% of these tags will be physically filled by the fathers involved.

 

[DeerMadness]

More like 70%

 

[andrew12gauge]

Yep guys no kid has ever shot a deer. Every youth tag is just filled by parents. I shot my first deer at age 9 in Washington(no minimum hunting age) I'm 5' 11" now and wasn't an extremely tall kid then and I still handled a rifle well enough then to take my own deer. Are there a few scumbags who buy deer tags for everybody in their family so they can shoot multiple deer? yes are they in the majority? No. Find new things to ##### about besides kids getting introduced to the sport we love.

 

[nitis]

Guess Andrews kid got a tag

No one is debating if these kids should hunt or not but they illegally applied for controlled hunt tags

Let's those kids go on general hunts. You idaho folk always talk about how great the general hunts are then go hunt them

 

[buckhorn]

andrew

There are a lot more than a few.

About 280 in this case. I agree with the last few posters.

 

[Idahoron]

And the people that piggybacked them should never have received tags. If you figure each kid had 3 additional applicants piggybacking them your talking over 1000 tags illegally obtained on the high side. And the F&G said the majority were piggybacked.

 

[swampmule]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-14 AT 10:07PM (MST)[p]I have never had a lot of faith in the F$G.And I have none now and they have the GUTS this January to go after a fee increase.Now is the time to make them setup and listen.
By contacting you Legislators and asking them to VOTE NO on the fee increase.That is the only way you can get them to listen.Is to stop the money.

45 ACP for when you have seconds to live and the police are only minutes away

 

[andrew12gauge]

>Guess Andrews kid got a tag
>
>
>No one is debating if these
>kids should hunt or not
>but they illegally applied for
>controlled hunt tags
>
>Let's those kids go on general
>hunts. You idaho folk always
>talk about how great the
>general hunts are then go
>hunt them

Considering my first son won't be born til October I'll wait til next years draw . Just kidding of course but I don't have a kid yet let alone one with a tag. I just think some people on here seem to be way to down on youth hunters. I don't buy the 70% comment made by somebody above. As far as the draw is concerned I agree idfg should not have issued the tags in the first place, and then to use the excuse that they would be taking away kids 1st opportunity at a hunt is awful weak because I agree completely with you on this one Nitis there are plenty of general hunts out there for these kids to go hunt on. Most general units would allow a 10 or 11 yr old to shoot any deer so there is plenty of opportunity out there

 

[nitis]

Andrew first thank you for not taking my comments personal

And you further help to make my point that the general hunts are the place for them to be

 

[Hunthigh]

Have they conducted the second draw for the 283 tags yet? The website says "as soon as possible". Whatever that means. . .

 

[broomd]

>Have they conducted the second draw
>for the 283 tags yet?
>The website says "as soon
>as possible". Whatever that means.
>. .


The director said by the tenth I believe, if you can believe a word the schmuck says....two days...

 

[ElmerFudd]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-14 AT 07:59AM (MST)[p]Applications ineligible at the time of application should be rejected and the whole party should be rejected if an ineligible applicant is in the party. I could almost see putting in the kid separate as a try. But to actually include someone you know is ineligible in your party is risking your party a probable reject. That would be either stupid or ballsy.

Anyway, ID is not the only state to change the rules between the application deadline and draw. Look what NM did on the sheep/ibex/oryx draw this year. They pretty much kicked the nonresident applications out after applicants ponied up thousands of dollars to apply.