coyote pups

lvtohuntnfish

Member
Messages
95
I was out turkey hunting today. Was sneaking along a ridge top and
saw some movement up ahead and it turned out to be a litter of four pups out frolicking around their den entrance. I know they are
hell on turkeys and fawns. I wanted to save some future wildlife but could not bring myself to do it. Should I have?
 
I have a hard time killing them too.....but they don't stay cute for long..
47920324596-r1-052-24a.jpg


JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Show them the Seat/Dash on your Dura-Max CUPSY!:D



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home
 
What's better is when you find a litter with mom. Whack the mom & the pups will just stand there.

Yep, you should have killed them all.
 
lv....the samething happened to me here in northern kali.....with the same heartfelt dilima. as far as I could count, there were 10 of them.....so I split the difference. I'll get the remaining 5 this summer. It was tuff though. I understand what you went through.
 
Take your shotgun back there and take care of business. If you're lucky you can get the breeding pair to show up as well. Try some pup in distress calls just outside and see what happens.
 
Why don't you ask the doe who just watched her twins fawns pulled apart to feed those little cute and fuzzy wittle baby puppies? As bessy would say "JUDAST!!!!!"
 
>I have a hard time killing
>them too.....but they don't stay
>cute for long..
>
47920324596-r1-052-24a.jpg

>
>JB
>
497fc2397b939f19.jpg


The two legged or four legged?
 
YES YOU SHOULD HAVE........THOSE 4 WILL BE HAVING 128 MORE PUPS IN 2-3 YEARS DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS OF SURVIVAL.........YD.
 
>You did right. Nothing sporting about
>killing those pups.
>
>Eldorado
Good ammo for the animal right's, Why bring up something like this? Pay attention to what is going on in CA.
 
Wow I'm not sure on this
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question
 
LAST EDITED ON May-13-12 AT 08:24AM (MST)[p]Been in the same dilemma last year with a fox den. Ended up watching the pups playing for an hour. Very entertaining, and a quality wildlife experience with my family.

Do what makes YOU feel good.

David
 
LAST EDITED ON May-13-12 AT 08:44AM (MST)[p] +1 SMITTY.......THIS IS NOT A SPORT SITUATION, OR NOT MUCH OF A "CHALLENGE" DEAL, NOR IS THIS A "FEEL GOOD" SITUATION. THIS IS ABOUT NOT LETTING MOM & DAD YOTE TEAR UP A SET OF FAWNS TO FEED THOSE FUR BALLS. THIS IS PROPAGATING MORE PREDATORS & LESS DEER...........................YD.
 
MAN UP. GET YOU AZZ BACK THIER AND SAVE SOME DEER, MANY TIMES WE HAVE TO DO THINGS WE DONT LIKE, TO MAKE THINGS BETTER ,,ITS A WAR.,YOU JUST LOST THE FIRST BATTLE,,,
 
I pretend they are ground squirrels.

Sorry to those of you that don't think it's "sporting"........shoot them left handed if you want more challenge.

"I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and
sh!t a better argument than that!"
 
It's not even a question that you do what you think is right and if you don't feel like shooting coyote pups dont. No one is saying that others can't, but don't listen to those that some how make you feel like you have some DUTY to. Shooting coyote, fox, bobcat, wolf, mt lion, or any other "pup" does not make you a man, doing what your ethics says is right does!

Someone who says your not a man for this likely would make their 10 year old kid feel like crap because they won't shoot a furry rabbit, grow up!
 
++++++++1 BPK

Man has to live with his on conscience. Can't worry about what anyone else says they would do. There is a difference between a hunter and a killer...... right or wrong in this case has to be decided in the moment and in ones own heart.
 
Within legal bounds, no man has the moral authority to tell another that he cannot take an animal.

Under the circumstances described, no man has the moral authority to tell another he should.
 
There is no right or wrong when it comes to this. Some people could and others could not. Neither way is bad. That's the truth.

However, there is no doubt in my mind that these (4)pups will be killing does,fawns within a year or two. That is the truth.

I can understand why it was hard for you. However, I will take care of it if you'd like.

Send me a PM. Coordinates would be great.
Just want to help the deer numbers by doing some predator management.
 
SOME OF YOU NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR SELF , AND SEE IF HUNTING IS TO MUCH FOR YOU. ITS NOT JUST BIG BUCKS AND BULLS'A ND SHOWING THEM OFF,,,, WOULD I SHOOT THOSE PUPS? IN A HEART BEAT, WOULD I LIKE IT? NO..
 
ELDORADO, NOTHING SPORTING, IS RIGHT, ITS A JOB THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE' TO HELP OUR DEER . YOUR NOT UP TO IT GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.FOR SOME ONE THAT IS,,,,,
 
Killing coyote pups and hunting aren't even related. If someone can't or won't do it, so f-ing what. It doesn't make them less of a hunter. I agree, some people need to take a look at themselves. mtmuley
 
I probably would of passed 'em up too but the $200 bucks would possibly sway me otherwise. Either way I'm pretty sure a decision to or not to is not going to send shock waves throughout the North American ecosystem.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Maybe not 1911!!!

But it sent some Shock Waves to Myton Utah!:D

GOOD GAWD,whatever you do,don't ever tell elkun you released a Kitty!:D






[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home
 
I do really appreciate the comments. I am leaning toward going back up there next weekend. To be perfectly honest though if
I knew of something I could put on a couple hot dogs and throw in the den. I would much rather do that. I sure don't mean to be a wuss but geez... dropping the hammer on 5-6 week old critters would surely not make a pleasant memory. Dropping the hammer on the momma on the other hand would make a great memory.
 
One time I was sitting in a pasture waiting for rock chucks to come out on the rocks and sun themselves, and a mother fox and her 4 pups came picking their way through the rocks. They didn't see me until they got pretty close. At about 30 yards, the mom stopped and watched as the pups came and sniffed me trying to figure out what I was. They were all rooting around me like pups. I had a rifle in my hands and could have smoked them all, but that was not the time.

I don't blame you one bit for letting them live. I would have probably done the same. Wait for the playing field to be level and then give it a go.

Vi Et Armis Invictus Maneo
 
If you can't or wouldn't pull the trigger tell some-one else where they are so they can.
Sorry but I can only see how mant fawns they will take to feed themselves thru the year.
Whack and stack.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
STTM. JUST STICK TO THE COUGARS AT FORT MYTON,,,,,TREE THEM ,AND LET THEM LOSE ALL YOU WANT,,,,,
 
>STTM. JUST STICK TO THE COUGARS
>AT FORT MYTON,,,,,TREE THEM ,AND
>LET THEM LOSE ALL YOU
>WANT,,,,,

Well elkun!

I just found out last Friday that not only do the prepare Roadkills,they're also sifting through Coyote kills & fixin that up for Lunch too!

There is No Waste in Myton,Except the Waist on them Cougars at the RoadKill Cafe!:D



[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home
 
You should have blazed away. Just so long as they were not in a tree at the time. That would be wrong. Lowest form of life around these parts is a tree den shooter.
 
I can certainly understand your feelings about not shooting them. I don't think anyones first inclanation from a sporting standpoint would be to shoot those pups. In the moment of truth, not all of us take all things into consideration. I imagine that if you were standing there and the thought that these pups would someday grow to be the problem their parents are for deer and antelope crossed your mind, I'm sure the outcome would have been different.

By nature, none of us would walk up and shoot a fawn... but if that fawn were to grow up and be responsable for all the imbablance that coyotes are currently responsable for, each of us would need to do what doesn't come natural and kill the fawn.

Just my personal thoughts. None of this has anything to do with having the guts to do it., it has to do with the initial reaction.


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
SO.........you would poison a critter, that will suffer a VERY painful and extended death, subsequently poison whatever might eat the carcass for WEEKS afterward......but you won't shoot them 'cuz you are "sensitive"....?

WTF?

"I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and
sh!t a better argument than that!"
 
Guys...I'm gonna add alittle to my scenario. It was turkey season and I asn't packing a shotgun, it was a
Destroyer 350 and trust me, hitting those little farts with an arrow while they are running through the poison oak isn't easy and I only pack 5 arrows.

I appreciate all the above comments, both pro and con (and respect them). I revisited the den the following weekend and there was no sign of them.

Turkey season ends this coming weekend, after that it will be 223 wssm and the foxpro.
 
The same thing happened to me a week ago. Cute little suckers aren't they. I didn't have a gun either. I wasn't about to start bashing there heads in with rocks. I couldn't do it either, but I'll hunt like hell for them when there older.
 
Seeing as how someone asked....I would have shot them with the camera unless the den was too close to the house. Even then I'd probably wait for them to leave the area. I'll shoot any mature coyote at anytime because it's fun and sporting though. Coyotes take out rodents and they don't necessarily wipe out any big game populations where I live. Lots of deer and elk, mice, marmots, rats, gophers and squirrels here. I know people that have grown up killing everything they see and to them no wildlife has any value. If you kill them as pups then they are not around when you want to target practice at 400 yards when you're looking for one.

If there is a real purpose to kill denned pups then go for it. No purpose for me though.
 
"I revisited the den the following weekend and there was no sign of them."

If the adults caught a whiff of you in the area that day or the next, they probably moved them to a backup den within a half mile or so. In a month they probably will abandon dens all together.

I person with a good handful of traps and a little knowledge can gang set an active den and catch all the pups and usually at least one of the adults.
 
Depends on location as well. If I were in Elk country where they aren't such an issue, I might not shoot pups. If it were in my deer are where I know for a fact they are a major problem, they would die by whatever means possible. Whatever choice is made needs to made from a standpoint of balance.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I'm a animal lover and after seeing what they've done in my back yard I would of shot them all, but that's just me.
 
even terrorists are cute when they are babies. ill stop traffic to help a dog cross the road! but yotes are the enemy. 'that would be tough though'
 
It's not a question of manhood or expediency whether to whack these pups or not, but I believe more a question of ethics and sportsmanship. I have no issues killing adult coyotes or other adult predators, but there's nothing sporting about killing their young.

Eldorado
 
I couldn't do it!! I'll whack mom and dad but not pups...


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
Living in CA has nothing to do with how I believe. I simply don't find the killing of coyote pups appealing.

Eldorado
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 12:38PM (MST)[p]Its not a question of sporting or ethical. I don't think anyone here would get "puppy" fever and start shaking. Let me ask this, would you kill baby cockroaches? Would you kill baby mice living in your kitchen? Heck yes you would, they are pests and they are destructive. Not when they are babies, when they grow up. In some areas, I see no difference between cockroaches or mice in my kitchen vs coyotes over running deer country. That being said, I wouldn't kill baby mice up on the mountain. Where they aren't hurting anything but in my kitchen, I damn sure would. Well, in many areas coyotes are in our "kitchens" and are a pest and are destructive. To say you wouldn't kill pups even though they are destructive when they grow is basing your decision on emotion and not logic.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Good call UGA. I don't know if I would do it, just wouldn't seem all that right to me, yet, if I saw mom and dad coyote away from the den together, I wouldn't hesitate. Leaves you to wonder how many you have left starving that way. Me? Maybe only a couple, and those were all in the fall, so spring pups would have survived.

The thing that gets me are all the ones on this thread who have no problem doing this yet object to shooting a turkey from the roost in the other thread.




HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________

Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:

http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
 
Here's a photot of my dad (little guy on the left), his brother, and father in 1936 in western wyoming holding a litter of pups. They just crawled down in the den,pulled them out and then collected the on the bounty.

6116579250_448086918538374_100000112107014_1871402_981877258_n-2.jpg


My grandfather was in fact a US government hired-gun to eradicate yotes back in the '30's.

TRH
 
To think that some of you sportsman posting comments on this thread saying that you wouldn't kill those pups makes me question your commitment to helping the deer herds in Utah.

Some of you need to really think about how your decisions are affecting our wildlife and other hunters around you.

Like Elkun said in post #29. I wouldn't enjoy killing those pups but I sure as hell would do it if I knew it would save some deer.

If you some of you fellow sportsman don't want to commit yourselves to helping the deer and elk herds in Utah, then go find something else to do besides hunting. Because to me all you are is an orange vest on the mountain in October causing crowding for the true,committed, hunters. Seriously....if killing a few pups (that you know are gunna slaughter some deer) is too emotional for you, pack up your hunting gear in a box(s) and stick them in your crawl space or storage unit and leave it there until you really want to enjoy a sport that helps manage our wildlife.
 
There you have it. The only truely committed sportsman are those that are willing to kill every living critter that may possibly effect the Utah deer herds. Conscience be damned. If it will help a deer then it must be the right thing to do.

I hear that democrats are hurting the Utah deer herd. You now know what to do about that as well.
 
>To think that some of you
>sportsman posting comments on this
>thread saying that you wouldn't
>kill those pups makes me
>question your commitment to helping
>the deer herds in Utah.
>
>
>Some of you need to really
>think about how your decisions
>are affecting our wildlife and
>other hunters around you.
>
>Like Elkun said in post #29.
>I wouldn't enjoy killing those
>pups but I sure as
>hell would do it if
>I knew it would save
>some deer.
>
>If you some of you fellow
>sportsman don't want to commit
>yourselves to helping the deer
>and elk herds in Utah,
>then go find something else
>to do besides hunting. Because
>to me all you are
>is an orange vest on
>the mountain in October causing
>crowding for the true,committed, hunters.
>Seriously....if killing a few pups
>(that you know are gunna
>slaughter some deer) is too
>emotional for you, pack up
>your hunting gear in a
>box(s) and stick them in
>your crawl space or storage
>unit and leave it there
>until you really want to
>enjoy a sport that helps
>manage our wildlife.


This is pathetic. You're not committed to wildlife until you've clubbed a few litters of pups in the head. Is that an accurate statement? GMAFB! Why is it that coyotes around my area aren't known for wiping out deer and elk herds like they are in Utah? Is this problem only in Utah and no where else? Do they really do that much damage or is the sky falling? Do you watch slob hunters/poachers on youtube and go club them in the head? Do you bash everyone over the head that hits a deer or elk with their vehicle? They are doing way more damage to your wildlife than coyotes. I've never seen coyotes drag deer and elk to the den so the pups can have a meal. Strange.

Is this just barstool biology at work here?
 
Whoa there, BillyBob. Just because some of us don't think just like you doesn't mean there isn't room for everybody.

I consider myself a sportsman first. I like to do things that are challenging and tough and that put me and the game I'm after on a level playing field. It's the reason I fly fish instead of fish with worms, and it's the reason I hunt with a bow. I love the challenge of it. I want to feel like I accomplished something when I catch or kill what I'm after.

That said, if you're fishing with power bait and shooting elk at 1200 yards with your super magnum, more power to you. We all have different tastes, and I respect yours.

I respect the animals I hunt. I love all of them, even the varmints. I'm not a tree hugger by any means, but if the animal doesn't have a sporting chance, chances are I won't kill it. That doesn't mean either way is right or wrong, it's just what I prefer.

A den full of babies is out of my comfort zone. Just because I don't want to kill pups doesn't make me love deer or elk any less. I spend plenty of time and dollars hunting coyotes every year- I love to do it (and franky I'm not very good at it), but if I stumbled upon the pups, I'd let them be and come after them when they were a little wiser and the terms were more even.

I also spend a ton of time and money on organizations that help our deer and elk herds. Does that make me a hypocrite? I don't think so. And I'm not going to stop giving to these guys and I'm not going to stop hunting. Sorry that doesn't make me a "committed hunter" in your eyes.







Vi Et Armis Invictus Maneo
 
zigga. ive never seen coyotes drag deer and elk to the den, you know very little about coyotes, and how they feed thier pups, you know very little period,,, so please stay out of utah..
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]
I for one do live and hunt in an area where coyotes are having a big effect on deer.

Again, and this is the bottom line guys, it isn't about "sporting" or "fair chase" or any of that other hunterese that we like to toss around. Its about balance. In my area, things are out of balance, there are too many coyotes and fawn/doe ratios are way down. If you are educated enough to know the ratio's in the areas you are hunting and they are out of whack, you owe it to conservation to do your part. If coyotes are not a problem in that particular area then leave them be. You guys up in Utah, they went as far as to put a $50.00 bounty on yotes, you better do your part! Mule deer numbers are down everywhere and if we don't control the things we can control to restore the herd then we will lose it. Don't call yourself a conservationist if you don't have the stomach to do the hard stuff. I would feel horrible to have to kill pups, I really would, but I would put my EMOTIONS aside and do it! "We don't have any more mule deer but dang aren't those puppies cute... Coochie coochie coo"

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Wow - some of the blind rhetoric on here is pretty sickening. Sorry, but just because I make an ethical choice in one instance doesn't determine my commitment to something in another area and doesn't make me less of a man for doing so.

This is not a purely black and white issue as some would have you believe. I will continue to do what I think is right and live with the consequences, if not killing a litter of coyote pups ends up having negative ramifications down the line, then that is what I chose, and I will live with that. The fact is, eradicating the coyote population in the state won't bring back the deer herds in and of itself. Some of us on here just want to find any excuse we can to kill just for killing's sake - and that is ugly. Just plain ugly.





HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________

Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:

http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
 
Roy, why don't you get the he$$ out of Utah and quit hunting deer! You and your ethics is exactly why there are no dear in Utah! You should move to Texas where there are no coyotes! I moved to Idaho where the coyotes don't eat deer, they eat rabbits, so we hunt them (coyotes) for fun, not out of a sense of duty.

I saw a litter of Red Foxes Saturday, and just enjoyed watching them for a few minutes. I know now that I am NOT a conservationist and that the pheasant population will crash because I didn't run for the shotgun and cream that worthless family of predators!
 
>Roy, why don't you get the
>he$$ out of Utah and
>quit hunting deer! You and
>your ethics is exactly why
>there are no dear in
>Utah! You should move to
>Texas where there are no
>coyotes! I moved to Idaho
>where the coyotes don't eat
>deer, they eat rabbits, so
>we hunt them (coyotes) for
>fun, not out of a
>sense of duty.
>
>I saw a litter of Red
>Foxes Saturday, and just enjoyed
>watching them for a few
>minutes. I know now that
>I am NOT a conservationist
>and that the pheasant population
>will crash because I didn't
>run for the shotgun and
>cream that worthless family of
>predators!


I'm really confused now!??
 
I was just joking with my old friend Roy. Humor some times does not mix well with a internet forum.

I disagree with this silly notion that any and all forms of predators need to be killed. I love to bear hunt, but I won't kill a cub just to save a few future elk calves or deer fawns. Likewise I would not kill a litter of baby coyotes or foxes, just because as predators they might kill a fawn some day.
 
WHOA BOYS! Hey, let's slow it down a bit.

My conscience, heart and guts were about as messed up that morning as all of your bickering is getting to be. All situations (and locations) are gonna create different responses from all of you and no two will be the same.

Let's lighten up some.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 04:08PM (MST)[p]Lol Roy, nobody, at least I didn't, said you were less of a man.

"I will continue to do what I think is right and live with the consequences, if not killing a litter of coyote pups ends up having negative ramifications down the line, then that is what I chose, and I will live with that."

You aren't the only one that has to live with it Roy. Each and everyone of us has to live with it. My kids will someday have to live with the choices we make now. Utah might be a bit different, I don't know but here in AZ, we don't have trapping anymore because we as sportsmen didn't step up and fight for our rights. Now we have more coyotes than we know what to do with. I know of 3 big units here where game and fish has to do aerial shoots to the tune of $1000.00 per hour plus plus plus. How many hours in a helo do you think it would take to shoot 150 to 200 coyotes? 10 maybe 15 maybe more? Do the math. $30 to $45k! So yes, I will kill pups because they are an issue here and I would urge anyone in my state to do the same thing. You kill 5 pups now, you could save 50 fawns or the next 2-3 years. Yes I do take this very serious and I do get offended when so called sportsmen don't have the stomach to do what is right for the good of conservation.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
This is a simple debate for me, I don't take or mean any of this personally. I would go hunting with Roy tomorrow. This is just a debate.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
HAHA.....Roy gets told to leave Utah and go to Texas. He did already... :) too late for that. Apparently the Idaho variety of yote has a little more class and only eat rabbits. We should transplant ID yotes down here. Problem solved.

As has already been pointed out, the 'objectivity' of some of this crowd is just a little suspect of being the slightest bit biased. Let me see if I understand this....que violins...the poor pup coyote while adorable will grow into full fledged killers and must be stopped. Each pup will be responsible for 20,000 deer deaths in two decades. (music shudders) Understandable, some of us will have extreme difficulty overcoming the cute factor and fulfilling our manifest destiny as we snuff the life out of them with our bare hands to prove our commitment to wildlife. (Solo violin soprano concerto)

Now, to help with what must be done and complete your immersion into honorable sportsman status let us reflect on the greater of perils. Should you let that pup go it will surely tear into the hiny of a fawn, ripping it from seam to seam. So consider yourself as responsible for saving that fawn, for the greater good, to spare it from hardship, from suffering, to live on another day, and maybe, just maybe, that fawn will sport some calcium on its head and present the opportunity to be whacked from 600 yards with a 338 RUM delivering a ton of ft./lbs into its vitals.

So in short, snuffing out pups mandatory for wildlife, mandatory to show you have man gear, and if one of the dens goes unnoticed this spring or otherwise not dealt a death blow, say good bye to deer as we know it. Total eradication is the only possible way out of this yote mess.

Then the footnote at the bottom of this handbook explains that you are the lowest of vermin if you ever shot a turkey out of roost. A bottom feeder with no ethics.

Some of the subjective BS emotional hype around here can be every bit as absurd as anything the HSUS can drum up.

Is a dead coyote a good thing? Yup. If you let one walk will it destroy everything as we know it? Nope. Will snuffing a yote out save a deer from death and or mutilation? Probably so. Is it really the suffering of the deer we are worried about or a lack of opportunities to whack a 200 inch buck? I think we all know the answer to that.

And damnit Roy get some ethics about you son. I thought you was learned better.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 04:37PM (MST)[p]You can tell who are the ones that wear the pants in their family by the posts they post about coyotes. lol


avatar_2528.jpg
 
1911, Awesome theatrics. Your last post was almost convincing. Inflate numbers and over dramatize the opposing argument. Skillful sir.

But your antics don't change the truth. Now, as I said, I would have a hard time killing pups but where I live and hunt it would have an effect on our deer populations. I can understand what Roy is saying and I almsot agree with him. Have you heard of the 3bar study? I've mentioned it here on MM several times. The 3bar study showed that with the removal of predators within a 1 square mile enclosure, fawn/doe ratios were 90/100. Just outside the enclosure the ratio was 25/100. The studt was done during a drought to top it off. That's a huge gap created by predation and soley on predation. Now you can argue killing pups all you want but you cannot argue facts. And the fact is coyotes kill fawns. Deer numbers are down here in AZ and from what I've heard they are in Utah as well. So why not do what we can to change it?

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
.
>
> This is not a purely
>black and white issue as
>some would have you believe.
>I will continue to do
>what I think is right
>and live with the consequences,
>if not killing a litter
>of coyote pups ends up
>having negative ramifications down the
>line, then that is what
>I chose, and I will
>live with that. The fact
>is, eradicating the coyote population
>in the state won't bring
>back the deer herds in
>and of itself. Some of
>us on here just want
>to find any excuse we
>can to kill just for
>killing's sake - and that
>is ugly. Just plain ugly.
>
>
This is the way that I felt. I watched those pups for a good 20 minutes and all sorts of things went through my mind. First I would have never been able to get all four. Two were rassling right at the den entrance. I could have got those with one shot.
Another was laying out dozing on the other side of the tree. The other was a few feet away. I wanted to shoot but I couldnt bring myself to do it. I walked closer and they all scooted into the hole. The hole was about 18 inches wide right under the tree root. I could not have gotten into the hole to get them out I thought about trying to plug up the hole with a piece of a blow down and then thought that would not do much good either. So I hung around for a few minutes kinda hoping the mother would show up, then walked away, all the while thinking maybe I should have at least shot a couple. I thought about it all the way back to my truck. Now if it will make any of you feel better, I dont live in Utah so these will not get any of the deer there. I live in upstate NY. Whitetails are not hurting. That being said, anytime I ever had a chance to take a whack at a yote I took it. This was the first time I ever saw pups in the woods. I thought long and hard and let the soft side of me win out on that day.
If any of you could kill em all and not feel anything, more power to you and I would not hold it against you.
 
Completely different situation. Upstate New York... Your probably doing the deer a favor by not shooting. I wouldn't have shot either had I been in your shoes. If it doesn't serve a purpose, there's no reason to do it.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I love the smell of puppy coyote blood in the morning!

That's Roy's problem.....he DID move to Texas! GET OUT OF TEXAS, ROY!:)

AZWALKER said something that really hits home. Would you kill a baby cockroach? Or a baby rat?

Who are you (or I) to say that a coyote has more value than a cockroach? Just because a coyote resembles Fido? That's emotional and not reality. Cockroaches live to eat and screw, same as coyotes.

I don't hate coyotes or wolves. Lord knows I was reading Jack London's "Call of The Wild" for the 10th time before most of you were even born.

If you want to go back to the 10th Centry when nature was in perfect harmony, then lets do it! Kill off about 90% of the human population is all you need to do. If you want to get a tag and kill a deer once in awhile with your high powered rifle, you better do what needs to be done to make that happen. There aren't enough deer for all the coyotes, and all the hunters.

If you just can't bring yourself to thump the baby coyotes, I understand though. I think Obama would be proud, as I'm sure he struggles with these types of issues.:)

Eel
 
If you don't want to shoot them, I know a guy that uses a length of barbwire, shoves it in the den, spins it a bunch and yanks 'em all out at once!

Seriously though, it isn't a sporting issue, it's a personal matter. I had a chance to kill 13 fox pups one day bear hunting in Montana. Didn't do it. I did blast a female coyote that was obviously nursing some pups on the way home though. And no she wasn't nursing when I shot her, I didn't notice till I walked up and saw how big her titties were. Didn't feel bad.

Maybe I'm just a cold blooded killer? Maybe I need counseling? I don't know, but I know some therapist won't be getting any of my money!
 
lvtohuntnfish made one point that makes all the difference in the world. He's in upstate NY. Upstate NY is a world away as far as deer go. They do not have the predator issues we face out west, they probably have more deer than they ever have in history and they don't even have the same kind of deer being effected. I can certainly understand not shooting a bunch of pups in his situation. I wouldn't have done it either.

I wouldn't kill a bunch of Fox pups either. I can't remember hearing many stories of Fox taking down deer. They might take a fawn here and there but they do not have the effect coyotes do. Someone mentioned bears... c'mon.. i can promise you black bears don't take a fraction on the fawns coyotes do in most of the west. If you are going to compair predators that can effect a deer herd talk about bobcats, wolves and lions.. not fox and bears.

This topic has brought up some important issues and if those who want to take extreme positions want to really discuss predator management and its importance, lets do it. Lets talk about when and where coyotes do have a big effect on deer. Lets reference data and provide facts. Lets dicuss Utahs bounty. Name calling by either side doesn't do this very real issue any justice.



"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
JUDAS!

Maybe we should have Special Seasons when We can & can't shoot Coyotes!

This reminds me of the time Bucky shot his Cow Elk & claims He didn't know he got a 2 fer 1 deal with a Calf inside!

Toughen Up Cup-Cakes!

I won't mention the time I pulled off a Broadside Shot on a Black-Jack & blowed a litter of bunnies out the other side!

They were close to being born,they were Squealing,I was gonna have to take care of things!

As I decide to go take care of things,I see a Coyote Racing in for Dinner!

I watched him eat his last meal!:D

[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home
 
My video was from northern Utah and I fully understand the ramifications of the action of leaving those pups. I still couldn't beat their heads in with a rock. And to say I'm not a conservationist, well that's silly. I don't question the amount of time I spend in the field, the pants I wear, or that decision I made. I'll hunt the suckers till I'm broke, and have an awesome time doing it, just not in a way were I have to check my character at the door.
 
My trigger pull selection revolves around improving our fawn survival and knowing we will have hi$ club calves on the ground yearly. I have no probs killing them, but understand everyone has different motives for doing or not doing something.
 
Hey smitty, quit telling every body my barbwire secrets. I don't want these guys growing some balls and trying it. There is to much money in it any more. P.S. This reminds me of the time I chased a little future deer killer down and used a size 13 boot to do the little guy in. Thinking back I felt bad but would do it again in a heart beat.
 
Ziggie get OFF the bar stool and you might have a clue of whats going on out there.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-12 AT 10:45PM (MST)[p]Dam/ it I think I might have. You want to go look for some dens in the morning?
 
Cool video, tough situation. It was definitely a character check moment. I think we made the right choice.
 
all you really would need is a good framing hammer, or a gunny sack and a pool of deep water one good toss.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Yep - UGAHunter and I go way back. Some of my first (and best) hunting experiences are with him, down on Ashley Creek huting doves, pheasant, raccoons (except for the ones he kept as pets), rabbits, ducks, prairie dogs, and one unfortunate barn owl! So, I knew his sarcasm when I read it. Good stuff.

I totally understand the need to control predators and I am not opposed to eradicting a whole litter of pups if needed, but please lets just tone down the false bravado just a little bit and quit pretending we are the great saviors of the deer herd.


HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________

Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:

http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/
 
Roy,

Those were good times! I still try to make good memories every now and then. When you going to come up here and hunt bears with me? You should plan on bringing the whole family and we'll make a week of it!

UGA
 
This is really funny. I never enjoy killing so killing a bunch of pups would not be fun either tho I would do it. Choices..
 
>all you really would need is
>a good framing hammer, or
>a gunny sack and a
>pool of deep water one
>good toss.
>



Actually you just need a stick, bc their bones are still soft. It works on small pigs and baby seals as well.
 

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