CWMU season dates

buckshot

buckshot

Active Member
Messages
382
Was reading through the apps. booklet and noticed that for CWMU's
It doesn't apear like there is an option to hunt in Nov. any longer. Is this correct?
 
90 days has never been an option for Buck deer, you get 60.



2a0fcsk.gif
 
Public Draw CWMU Hunter usually 5 Day Hunt!

Big Money CWMU Hunter usually as long as it takes up to Months!

TOTAL BS!



So?
You think you wanna take My Hi- Capacity Magazines & Assault Rifles Huh?
Just Try taking My American Pride/Rights!


It's been a long hard ride
And I won't lose hope
This is still the place
That we all call home
 
I have to agree with the draw guys get 5 days and the big $$$ guys get for ever. Thats crap!

HMMMM, and the hunting isnt going the direction of the rich man sport? Guess again people/dwr.
 
>I have to agree with the
>draw guys get 5 days
>and the big $$$ guys
>get for ever. Thats crap!
>

Yep, one of the biggest hunting scams in Utah!
 
Question,

Can this every truly be changed? Or is there just to much money and political power to overturn this time limit for CWMU hunts?

I dont think CWMU's will ever go away, but can we do anything to tighten up the loose ends on the CWMU?


Tallbuck1
 
I bought my first ever landowner tag for a CWMU in 2012. I hunted without a guide and even though I bought the tag rather than drawing it, the ranch manager was very up front that I only had 5 days max to hunt. Same for two other pay hunters that were there. This was not what they were told by the broker that sold them the tag. He told them they could hunt during archery for 5 days and if they did not tag out then come back for 5 days with a rifle. The ranch manager was having none of that. In my instance the broker was the shady one not the ranch.

The only sketchy part of the ranch manager was when he asked us not to hunt the lower portion of the ranch on the first morning so that he could have an older gentleman that could not walk very well hunt it as he only had one morning to hunt. As it turns out he had a 5x7 nontypical that was working a pond each morning pegged for this guy. The guy turned out to be a family friend and a celebrity and far from unable to walk. He shot the buck from the truck. I watched the whole thing unfold through my spotter. I talked with them a few hours later after they drove up to the ridge that I was on and it just confirmed what I thought that I had been misled. The buck was better than anything I saw and I hunted for 4 days, seeing numerous bucks, without filling my tag before having to get back to work on short notice.

I will say that the ranch does a great deal for diabled veterans, children and those with disabilities. While I was there the ranch manager was spending each day looking for a cow elk for a draw hunter and they had taken a couple of nice bucks earlier with children and a man in a wheel chair.
 
Well Todd!

Would it not be fair to give the Public Draw Hunter 9 days or the same number of Days as the LE Hunt?

5 Days for Public Draw Hunter Versus a Pay Hunter that gets 70+ Days?

WTF?



So?
You think you wanna take My Hi- Capacity Magazines & Assault Rifles Huh?
Just Try taking My American Pride/Rights!


It's been a long hard ride
And I won't lose hope
This is still the place
That we all call home
 
Refer all future CWMU questions to Mr. R.Bess!

Make it a 50/50 split between paying and drawn hunters. If a CWMU operator tries to keep you out of certain areas, for paying clients, or tries changing or canceling scheduled days.... Fine them $10,000 and suspend them from the program for 5 years.

Also, make the hunting dates the same as the other public land seasons.

That should make it "fair"!
 
Well Bess!!

IDK Bess! Why don't you start off by giving me your definition of fair and I might be able to give you a little more assistance. What is fair, oh wait, your one of those Obama for president dudes that wants whats fair for everyone, no free enterprise, no freedoms, just whats fair for you is fair for me is that right? Is that what you are implying?

IDK Bess! shouldn't it be fair to give rifle hunters 3.5 months to hunt along the Wasatch front or in a general season area like them bowhunters have?

IDK Bess! Why do our LE hunts get nine days, how is that fair and some areas only get 5 days, 30 days?

IDK Bess! How about we pay landowners fair market value for grazing public wildlife on their ground? That should be fair shouldn't it?

I'm not quite sure where 70 days came from if that's an old Basin thing or what. Did you pull that one out of your hat or somewhere else?

I must say I like that idea though, 9 more days of hunting would be sweet, maybe if we got that we could give the public guy 7.

Well Bess?


Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
todd you and that cwmu are two of a kind, how much did you make off cwmus lastyear??dont give me that how are they a rip off. you dam well know .
 
>Well Bess!!
>
>IDK Bess! Why don't you
>start off by giving me
>your definition of fair and
>I might be able to
>give you a little more
>assistance. What is fair,
>oh wait, your one of
>those Obama for president dudes
>that wants whats fair for
>everyone, no free enterprise, no
>freedoms, just whats fair for
>you is fair for me
>is that right? Is
>that what you are implying?
>
>
>IDK Bess! shouldn't it be
>fair to give rifle hunters
>3.5 months to hunt along
>the Wasatch front or in
>a general season area like
>them bowhunters have?
>
>IDK Bess! Why do our LE
>hunts get nine days, how
>is that fair and some
>areas only get 5 days,
>30 days?
>
>IDK Bess! How about we
>pay landowners fair market value
>for grazing public wildlife on
>their ground? That should be
>fair shouldn't it?
>
>I'm not quite sure where 70
>days came from if that's
>an old Basin thing or
>what. Did you pull
>that one out of your
>hat or somewhere else?
>
>I must say I like that
>idea though, 9 more days
>of hunting would be sweet,
>maybe if we got that
>we could give the public
>guy 7.
>
>Well Bess?
>
>
>Todd Black
>
>Visit our YouTube page
>http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum

COOL IT BlandingBoy!

I myself don't give a RATS F'N ASS what goes down on your CWMU's!

But I do believe the Guys that Play Your Games and burn anywhere from who knows how many Points on up to MAX Points and are only offered 5 Days to Hunt is TOTAL BULLLSSSHHITT!

You callin me a Liar on me Knowin a couple Guys that Hunted 70+ Days on a CWMU the year before this last year?

Let's place some GREENBACK on this Bet BlandingBoy!

Well Todd?

How much money you wanna Lose?



So?
You think you wanna take My Hi- Capacity Magazines & Assault Rifles Huh?
Just Try taking My American Pride/Rights!


It's been a long hard ride
And I won't lose hope
This is still the place
That we all call home
 
it is kinda funny the only time Blanding boy posts is to defend his money maker CWMU program.....it is all about the money for him, the public be damned....all you guys trying to draw a moose tag and have seen your units #'s drop, the CWMU #'s stay the same or rise....there goes more opprotunity lost to pad the pockets of some landowner....

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
Lets talk about how many acres of PUBLIC land is tied up with CWMU's.Look at NW Utah, its a joke.
 
CWMU'S are a cash cow for owners and guides simple as that. I'd love to see a graph showing monies made from owners and guides pre/post cwmu existence. It is the best horse and pony show we got going in this state.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>Lets talk about how many acres
>of PUBLIC land is tied
>up with CWMU's.Look at NW
>Utah, its a joke.

this is one of my debates with the BOY.... there is about an equal amount of public in the elk CWMU's....MOST is not landlocked....this is a joke, take a drive out during the fall and MOST of the elk are using public ground included in the BOYS precious CWMU's....LOTS of opprotunity lost to the public to pad the ranchers pockets...

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
The CWMU program is Scam / Rip off ???

You can't be scammed or ripped off unless you apply for a CWMU, so how does that affect any of you guys whining about it?

I might also add that several CWMUs exceed the 5 day minimum. Deseret allows 10 days and I know a few others that will allow the public hunter as long as it takes to get an animal.

No program is perfect and I will admit that there are several improvements that can be made to the program. The program opens up private land to the public sportsman. If you get rid of the CWMU program as many of you suggested, the application guidebook will be about 5 pages shorter and you will have 100s less choices of tags to apply for.

Getting rid of the program will destroy a ton of opportunity for the public sportsman and take us back to little chance at getting a decent tag in this state.

Those people that do their homework, know the CWMU, and hunt hard usually have a great and successful hunt. Those guys just throwing apps at CWMUs they know nothing about are the ones that "Get Screwed". And when I say "Get Screwed" I mean they get mad and cry about the experience after they don't get an animal. You shouldn't apply for a CWMU unless you know a great deal about the area, the potential, and have spoken to the operator about your experience if you should draw a tag. It's always a big risk going into an area without knowing anything about it.

It's funny how we get so many people that cry and moan about the program, but yet nobody ever voices an opinion at the CWMU meeting or RACs. I guess hiding behind a fake name and crying about over your keyboard is a little easier.
 
You paint with a might wide brush there feller. I don't think my identity is all the mystic here and for the most part I think the cwmu is a crock of sh!t how's that? In your infinite wisdom HJB, what did the CWMU program do for trespass/landowner tag fees? Did they go up or down? Did that expand or limit opportunity? The way it is now the tags get pimped out for primo dollar largely thanks to 3 months to settle the guide logistics and everyone is supposed to soil their panties over a few token tags thrown back to the general draw? The difference between then and now is MANY people used to be able to afford landowner/trespass situation tags for the family to go. Now the vast majority have been kicked to the curb for out of state wallets. The consolation prize? Every 15 years you MIGHT get to draw a tag.


Tell us how YOU are plugged into a cwmu and what it does for your self serving interest. I'm sure others would enjoy a laugh.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Hmmm..... HJB,

I'm not totally against CWMUs but to say it provides more opportunity for public is B.S.!!!! Before they started many of the cwmu areas let family, friends, neighbors hunt every year. Now no family, friends or neighbors get to hunt it unless they draw. It shut out 1, 000s of public hunters and let a few lucky draw hunters in to hunt shitty dates, be told where you can and can not hunt. CWMU benifits the $$$$ guys and hurts the public. That is 100% true!!! They do not not run them with the public in mind!!!
 
Todd,
I happen to know a few ranchers. They get a few tags every year for deer and elk for their property. NO, they are not part of the CWMU, BUT>>>>>they depend every year on grazing their animals on public land every year. But yet, their private property is off limits to all to hunt. Its just like the CWMU.
 
>
>
>Hmmm..... HJB,
>
> I'm
>not totally against CWMUs but
>to say it provides more
>opportunity for public is B.S.!!!!
>
> Before they started
>many of the cwmu areas
>let family, friends, neighbors hunt
>every year. Now
>no family, friends or neighbors
>get to hunt it unless
>they draw. It
>shut out 1, 000s of
>public hunters and let a
>few lucky draw hunters in
>to hunt shitty dates, be
>told where you can and
>can not hunt.
> CWMU benifits
>the $$$$ guys and hurts
>the public. That is
>100% true!!!
>They do not not run
>them with the public in
>mind!!!

"You paint with a might wide brush there feller. I don't think my identity is all the mystic here and for the most part I think the cwmu is a crock of sh!t how's that? In your infinite wisdom HJB, what did the CWMU program do for trespass/landowner tag fees? Did they go up or down? Did that expand or limit opportunity? The way it is now the tags get pimped out for primo dollar largely thanks to 3 months to settle the guide logistics and everyone is supposed to soil their panties over a few token tags thrown back to the general draw? The difference between then and now is MANY people used to be able to afford landowner/trespass situation tags for the family to go. Now the vast majority have been kicked to the curb for out of state wallets. The consolation prize? Every 15 years you MIGHT get to draw a tag.


Tell us how YOU are plugged into a cwmu and what it does for your self serving interest. I'm sure others would enjoy a laugh."


i think both these wise men are spot on....LESS LESS LESS opprotunity and more $$$$ in the landownwers pocket

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
"You can't be scammed or ripped off unless you apply for a CWMU, so how does that affect any of you guys whining about it"

Am I whining HJB? I just hate the CWMU's. Its really not that complicated and no, I do not apply for them.

I am sure you wouldn't be refering to me as "hiding behind a keyboard". You should know who I am. You have PM'ed me before asking about boundaries up here or the fishing at Birch Creek.

I would be glad to PM you my address if you want to discuss CWMU's in person.

We have argued this point before. Does it really bother you that much when someone disagrees with you.
 
HJB, my name is in my profile, suck on it.

PS, you're WRONG on every point you tried to make. How does CWMU's hurt the average guy you ask? Did you not bother to look up how much public land are enrolled in these things? Of course you didnt.What boot said is also spot on, far less people are hunting on those ranches thanks to CWMU's, and no one is doing it on a handshake like they used to(damn few anyway).
 
Woodruff Hunter,
We have spoken many times and I respect you and your opinion. It doesn't bother me when someone disagrees with me. It bothers me when people disagree with a program that was created to give me opprotunity to the public sportsman. Like I said before, and about 100 other times on 100 other posts, the CWMU give us more tags and more options to hunt. That's really all there is to it.

I don't buy the "If it wasn't a CWMU the owner would let me hunt it" crap. You really think that if the CWMU program was done today, that every landowner would call up all the people he had ever met and all his family and friends to come an hunt? The reason these properties cost so much to hunt is because they are managed for trophy bucks and bulls. The CWMU program have been a huge benefit to the wildlife both on private and public property. All you guys that hunt Monte can thank the efforts of DLLs elk management system for most the elk you see up there. The migration hunts can be spectacular because of this. So you could say that in some cases there are other public benefits than just a few tags.

Overall, I think the program has potential and as long as it is managed the way it's supposed to be managed it can be a huge benefit to the public.

Dryboot,
I understand your argument. You know a ton of land owners in Morgan and could probably get access easier to hunt all these lands if they were not CWMUS. However, this is not the case for the average guy that would have to knock on the landowners door and ask to hunt. You really think all this land would open up at the knock of the door to the public sportsman???
I have knocked a ton of doors, and I can tell you most people would rather tell you to screw off. Hell, I have offered to pay $100 bucks to the Kippens just to let me look for antlers on their land and they basically told me to piss off.

Now that these land owners know they can get big $ for big game, they will always charge a hefty price (CWMU or not).

It all comes down to this: Do you want more opportunity or not? Do you want more tags or not? Do you want more wildlife or not?

This has been my opinion and I'm sticking with it because I think this program has "Potential" and that's enough to keep me a supporter of the program.

Not trying to burn any bridges, I'm just giving my opinion.
 
I generally support the CWMU concept, and I don't own any land or guide on any CWMU. I have hunted on several CWMU's on public draw tags, mostly antlerless but occasionally someone in my family gets a bull or buck tag. I've never paid for a CWMU tag or made a single dollar off any CWMU hunt.
Wishing for the old days when you could hunt a ranchers land for a six pack and a thank you is just sticking your head in the sand. I wish it were so, also, but that won't make it happen. And this is true across the west, not just in Utah, and most states do not have a CWMU type program.

There is no doubt landowners and guides make considerable amounts of money off of CWMU tags. It is Private Property, however, and they can make money off the hunting, or running cattle, harvesting timber, or breaking up the land into ranchettes if they so desire. Keeping the land undeveloped and managing it for high quality animals is a benefit to everyone in the state. And some wealthy people will get to go on quality hunts that you and I can't afford. Get over it.

Now, that said, there are some problems with the system, and some operators are total A-holes. The state needs to do a better job weeding out the shady operators and kicking out those who mistreat the public hunters. If you buy a tag and have a rough hunt, well, vote with your wallet and go elsewhere. Like everything in life, buyer beware.

The CWMU program isn't perfect (what government program is?), but aside from the jealous whining about the rich, the public does benefit overall from the program. Sure, I wish a greater percentage of the tags went to public draw hunters (me), but you can kill the golden goose quite easily by demanding more and more. Seems like an analogy to our broader government problems and the 47% who are takers would be perfect right here.
Bill
 
Mr. 1234,
You should do your homework on the program before you make a fool of yourself.

There's a few things you should know about public land included in a CWMU. For one, a CWMU is required to provide "trade lands" if there are any public lands locked into the CWMU boundary. Or they can issue bigger split ratio that would allow the public more tags in the program. So it's not like we just lose the land. We do get compensated for it.

You may also be interested in knowing that all the Public land included in a CWMU is still open to the public for anything other than hunting the species the CWMU is listed for. So you can go shoot chukars, grouse, shed hunt, or play with you dong on these lands all you want.

You learn something new every day.
 
>Mr. 1234,
>
> You
>should do your homework on
>the program before you make
>a fool of yourself.
>
>There's a few things you should
>know about public land included
>in a CWMU. For one,
>a CWMU is required to
>provide "trade lands" if there
>are any public lands locked
>into the CWMU boundary. Or
>they can issue bigger split
>ratio that would allow the
>public more tags in the
>program. So it's not like
>we just lose the land.
>We do get compensated for
>it.
>
>You may also be interested in
>knowing that all the Public
>land included in a CWMU
>is still open to the
>public for anything other than
>hunting the species the CWMU
>is listed for. So you
>can go shoot chukars, grouse,
>shed hunt, or play with
>you dong on these lands
>all you want.
>
>You learn something new every day.

HJB...the "trade lands" for the most part in NW UT is either DESERT....WINTER RANGE....or PRIVATE GROUND that has never been posted in the past due to NO VALUE to the landowner to protect from hunters, patch work isolated pieces...

anybody who says the CWMU program has helped the general public is either fooling themselves or making $$$ off the program...
increased opprotunity??? if you are looking at tag #'s ya a BUNCH of COW tags....WOW....thanks....we get cow tags...they get 60+ days to kill the BEST BUCKS AND BULLS THEY CAN FIND....if the property is mostly summer range they pick them off in early SEPT....can you say ALTON....if it is transitional they have 60+ days to catch them....if rutting, winter range they have until NOV 10....we the general public are taking it in the shorts to gain a few COW tags...


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
>Mr. 1234,
>
> You
>should do your homework on
>the program before you make
>a fool of yourself.
>
>There's a few things you should
>know about public land included
>in a CWMU. For one,
>a CWMU is required to
>provide "trade lands" if there
>are any public lands locked
>into the CWMU boundary. Or
>they can issue bigger split
>ratio that would allow the
>public more tags in the
>program. So it's not like
>we just lose the land.
>We do get compensated for
>it.
>
>You may also be interested in
>knowing that all the Public
>land included in a CWMU
>is still open to the
>public for anything other than
>hunting the species the CWMU
>is listed for. So you
>can go shoot chukars, grouse,
>shed hunt, or play with
>you dong on these lands
>all you want.
>
>You learn something new every day.

HJB...the "trade lands" for the most part in NW UT is either DESERT....WINTER RANGE....or PRIVATE GROUND that has never been posted in the past due to NO VALUE to the landowner to protect from hunters, patch work isolated pieces...

anybody who says the CWMU program has helped the general public is either fooling themselves or making $$$ off the program...
increased opprotunity??? if you are looking at tag #'s ya a BUNCH of COW tags....WOW....thanks....we get cow tags...they get 60+ days to kill the BEST BUCKS AND BULLS THEY CAN FIND....if the property is mostly summer range they pick them off in early SEPT....can you say ALTON....if it is transitional they have 60+ days to catch them....if rutting, winter range they have until NOV 10....we the general public are taking it in the shorts to gain a few COW tags...


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
HJB, I'm well aware the way it works..Its called smoke and mirrors.I'm also not talking about a few land locked pieces of state land here and there.
 
>HJB, I'm well aware the way
>it works..Its called smoke and
>mirrors.I'm also not talking about
>a few land locked pieces
>of state land here and
>there.

Please elaborate....
 
>anybody who says the CWMU program
>has helped the general public
>is either fooling themselves or
>making $$$ off the program...

So what would be your genius plan for the program? Let me guess..... The land owners of all the CWMUS will let you hunt the properties if the program is shut down? That excuse is getting old.

Maybe we should look at the program as a Wildlife benefit rather than public/private/rich/guides/Blah Blah Blah

How many cabins and subdivisions do you think would be on CWMU land if it was not enrolled in the program? The program keeps these areas as wildlife sanctuaries and wilderness. Most are managed to produce lots of animals and many have succeeded in that regard. There are lots of deer and elk on these properties and many adjacent public lands beneift from that.

You all know my opinion and I think I have shared just about all there is to share about CWMUs. If you think it's a big deal get out and voice your opinion and get the problems corrected. I hope to see everybody at the CWMU meeting in February at the expo.

I'm Out!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-13 AT 11:23AM (MST)[p]Here is 1 of 3 pages of public trade lands in NW Utah in case anyone is interested.
2926box_elder_lands.jpg
 
>So what would be your genius
>plan for the program? Let
>me guess..... The land owners
>of all the CWMUS will
>let you hunt the properties
>if the program is shut
>down? That excuse is getting
>old.

its called access yes/block managment.Really had to think outside the box to answer that one.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-13 AT 12:46PM (MST)[p]
Also some of that public trade land is good property, but you still cant get to it..go try tell me how it works out.

Going off their own map, the majority of "trade lands" still include large chunks of public or cattle association land thats posted as closed.Or its like treedagain said and worthless and open to public anyway.Looks great on paper but the reality is a bit different.AKA smoke and mirrors.

subdivisions? A strawman at best, I cant think of a single property that would subdivide if it wasnt for CWMU's, but there would be many outfitters out of a job.Most landowners dont care enough to controll it themselves, its nothing but a pain in the ass for them.If they were so interested in growing big critters they dont need CWMU's to do it, they can control who hunts without the help of an outfitter..You know the way it used to work.

There are other options out there that would work, but CWMU's were first and it will be nearly impossible to buck that trend.

Look at the link just below where you found that map. "unprecedented access". WOW, what? Without outfitters involved? Impossible!

"Utah's Walk-In Access program gives hunters, anglers and trappers unprecedented access to private property across the state. For more information on Utah's Walk-In Access program?and to find the best big game hunting properties near you?visit wildlife.utah.gov/walkinaccess "
 
"If you think it's a big deal get out and voice your opinion and get the problems corrected. I hope to see everybody at the CWMU meeting in February at the expo"

That is a statement I agree with. I'll be there for 2 or 3 days, maybe I'll see you there.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-13 AT 12:52PM (MST)[p]
A list of Access Yes properties

Last modified: Monday, November 26, 2012


Home | General | Responsibilities | Payments | Landowner application | Participating properties | Authorization number

Participating landowners' properties

Central Region
B Hullinger: This fishing property is located next to Highway 89, about 17 miles south of Mapleton.
C Sperry: Located approximately 3 miles east of Nephi.
Deer Creek Campground: This fishing property is located about one mile southeast on Highway 189 of Deer Creek Reservoir.
D Hansen Hilltop: Located 4 miles north of Fairview and 9 miles north of Mount Pleasant on Highway 89.
Grantsville CD: Located approximately seven miles southwest of Grantsville.
Johnson Clover Creek: This fishing property is located southwest of Stockton. From Railroad Street in Stockton, travel 9 miles on SR-36 to its junction with SR-199, then 6.2 miles west on SR-199 to the property entrance.
K D Bass #1: Located 3 miles south of Goshen on Goshen Canyon Road.
K D Bass #2: Located approximately 1 mile north of Goshen on 11130 W.
K D Bass #3: Located approximately 4 miles west of Eureka.
K D Bass #4: Located approximately 12 miles south of Vernon.
Keeler Dodge Canyon: Located approximately 3.3 miles west of Manti on road to Gunnison Reservoir.
Keeler River Knoll: Located approximately 2.5 miles west of Manti on River Lane - Gunnison Reservoir road.
K Hubbs: This fishing property is located next to Highway 89, about 17 miles south of Mapleton.
Nine Mile Reservoir: This fishing-only access is approximately one mile south of Sterling on US-89.
O Miner: hunting and fishing property is located about 3.8 miles east from Nephi on SR-132 up Salt Creek.
S L Ekins: This hunting property is located about 2.3 miles south from Genola on US-6.
S Miller (Manti Face WMA Access): This trail provides access to the Manti Face WMA. The trail is located approximately 2 miles north of Manti, east of Highway 89.
S Riddle: This fishing property is located next to Highway 89, about 17 miles south of Mapleton.
Victory Ranch: This fishing property is located 2.75 miles west on SR-32 from the intersection of SR-32 and SR-35 in Francis, Utah.
Northern Region
A Carrigan: This fishing property is less than 0.5 miles south of Petersen in Morgan Valley.
A Douglas: This property is located approximately 3 miles south of Howell, UT and 21 miles northwest of Tremonton, UT.
A Judd: This property provides access to a section of the Weber River and is located southwest of Coalville.
Andy Adams Reservoir: This fishing property is located about 2 miles southwest of the junction of SR-193 and US-89.
B Bohman: Located about 9 miles north of Morgan.
B Petersen: This hunting property is located southwest of Tremonton.
B Richins: This fishing and hunting property is located southeast of Henefer.
Burt Trust: Located about 18 miles west of Tremonton.
B Wilde: This fishing property is a little over 8 miles northwest of Oakley towards Smith and Morehouse.
Choke Cherry: This property is located approximately 70 miles southwest of Snowville, UT on Highway 30.
Circle Bar and B Thruston properties: This fishing property is located northwest of Morgan.
C Rex: This hunting property is located about 7 miles south from Laketown, south of Bear Lake.
C Thompson East: This hunting property is located northeast of Clarkston.
C Thompson West: This hunting property is located west of Clarkston.
C Wilkinson: Located about 4 miles south of Coalville and 7 miles north of Rockport Reservoir.
D Dahle: This hunting property is located northeast of Clarkston.
D Postma: This hunting property is located west of Tremonton.
East Bear Lake: This hunting property is located east of Bear Lake.
G Pappas: This hunting property is located west of Hoytsville.
Hobbs Reservoir: This fishing property is located about 1.5 miles southwest of the junction of SR-193 and US-89.
Honeyville Ponds: Located one-half mile south of Honeyville.
J Baxter: Located at the south end of Cache Valley.
J H Richard: This property is located approximately 14 miles northeast of Tremonton, UT.
K Rounkles: This fishing-only property is located along the Ogden River in Ogden Canyon, about 1 mile west of Pineview Reservoir.
Kippen #1: This property is located north of East Canyon Reservoir & State Park.
Kippen #2: This property is located north of East Canyon Reservoir & State Park.
K Tripp: This hunting property is located southeast of Richmond.
L Cowley: This property contains three separate land parcels. Two parcels are west of Logan, UT. The third parcel is south of Cutler Reservoir.
L Douglas: This property is located approximately 12 miles north of Howell, UT.
L Godfrey: This hunting property is located north of Clarkston.
L Fawcett #1: This fishing property is located east of Henefer.
L Fawcett #2: This fishing property is located northeast of Henefer.
L P Douglas: This property is located approximately 8 miles south of Howell, UT.
Little Mountain Cattle Co. Fishing: Located about 6 miles west of Brigham City on Promontory Road.
Little Mountain Cattle Co. Hunting: Located about 18 miles west of Tremonton.
MG Munk: Located about 18 miles west of Tremonton.
R Jorgensen: This hunting property is located about 1.5 south of Clarkston.
R Sorensen: Located about 16 miles west of Tremonton.
R Teichert: The property is located east of Bear Lake, up North Eden Canyon on the Utah-Idaho state line.
Sagamore Farms: This hunting and fishing property is located south of Hyrum.
South Cache: This hunting property is located 11 miles east of Hyrum.
T Crowther: Located on the south side of I-84, about 6 miles east of Morgan.
T Lamb #1: Located about 17 miles north of Tremonton.
T Lamb #2: Located about 17 miles north of Tremonton.
T Lamb #3: Located about 19 miles north, northwest of Tremonton.
T Munns #1: This property is located approximately 10 miles north of Howell, UT.
T Munns #2: This property is located approximately 15 miles northwest of Howell, UT.
T Munns #3: This hunting property is located about 4.4 miles south of the Hansel Valley Road and I-84 junction at Hansel Valley Road and 18400 North.
T Stevens: This fishing property is located southeast of Henefer.
U Godfrey Property 1: This hunting property is located northwest of Clarkston.
U Godfrey Property 2: This hunting property is located northwest of Clarkston.
U Godfrey Property 3: This hunting property is located northeast of Clarkston.
V Dahle: This hunting property is located northeast of Clarkston.
W Godfrey: This hunting property is located north of Clarkston.
Ward/Tripp: This hunting property is located southeast of Richmond.
Northeastern Region
Alameda Sweetwater property #1: Located around Trap Canyon approximately 70 miles north of Arches National Park or 80 miles south of Vernal.
Alameda Sweetwater property #2: Located around Black Horse Canyon near Black Horse Point, approximately 65 miles north of Arches National Park or 85 miles south of Vernal.
Alameda Willow Creek property #1: Located approximately 50 miles south of Vernal on Willow Creek Road.
Alameda Willow Creek property #2: Located approximately 48 miles south of Vernal on Willow Creek Road around Two Willow Creek.
Alameda Wood Canyon: Located on both sides of Willow Creek Rd approximately 65 miles south of Vernal or 60 miles north of Green River.
Altamont Farm: Located about 20 miles north of Duchesne.
B Forbes: Located approximately 9 miles southwest of Manila, near the Utah-Wyoming border.
Crows Roost: Located approximately 50 miles north-northwest the Utah-Colorado border at I-70.
G Reay: This fishing property is located approximately 19 miles north of Duchesne via UT-87.
J Abbott Rocky Point Canal: Located approximately 8 miles east of Duchesne.
J Foy: Located in the Ashley National Forest, about 21 miles south of Duchesne.
K Moon property #1: Located across SR-399 approximately 2 miles northeast of Duchesne.
K Moon property #2: Located approximately 3 miles northeast of Duchesne, just off of SR-399.
K Moon property #3: Located approximately 5 miles northeast of Roosevelt.
L Foy: Located in the Ashley National Forest, about 17 miles south of Duchesne.
L Haslem: This fishing property is located near Altamont, about 20 miles north of Duchesne.
M Johnson: Located approximately 7 miles northwest of Steinaker State Park just off a left fork on Taylor Mountain Road.
Neola #1: Located about 3 miles southeast of Neola.
Neola #2: Located less than 1 mile southeast of Neola.
North Neola: Located about 5 miles northeast of Neola. Access is from 10000 N only.
OB Ranch: To locate this fishing property, travel about 10 miles east from the junction of US-40 and SR-208 to the Strawberry River Road (29500 W). Follow the Strawberry River Road south and then west 4 miles to the property.
R Abbott Argyle Canyon: Located about 30 miles northeast of Price and 36 miles south of Duchesne. You can reach the property by taking US-191/UT-33 and then heading east on Argyle Canyon Road.
R Abbott Cottonwood Canyon: Located about 10 miles south of Duchesne. You can reach the property by taking US-191/UT-40 and then heading south on Cottonwood Ridge Road.
R Abbott Duchesne River: Located about 3.5 miles northeast of Duchesne on East River Road.
R Abbott Mountain Home #1 property: Located about 18 miles north of Duchesne.
R Abbott Mountain Home #2 property: Located about 17 miles north of Duchesne.
R Abbott Sowers Canyon property: This group of parcels is located about 20 miles south of Duchesne in the Ashley National Forest.
R Thacker: Located west of SR-149, just north of Jensen.
S Thacker: Located approximately 5 miles southeast of Moon Lake, near Mountain Home.
S Bench: Located approximately 14 miles east of Strawberry Reservoir.
Three Corners: This property is located in the corner of the state by the Utah-Colorado and Utah-Wyoming borders.
T Moon: Located approximately 18 miles east of Duchesne, just south of Highway 40.
Southeastern Region
C Hunt: Located the northside of Hanksville.
F & S Jensen: Located on the southside of Scofield.
J Blankenagel: Located about 4 miles southwest of La Sal, and about 13.5 miles west of the Utah-Colorado border.
J Jackson: Located approximately 2.7 miles northeast of Caineville on Highway 24.
J Mooney: Located in Spanish Fork Canyon on Highway 6, approximately 23 miles north of Price.
J Vaughn: Consists of a stretch of Cottonwood Creek just north of Orangeville.
L Burnside: Located about 2 miles northwest of Huntington, and 3 miles west of Huntington Lake.
L Wells: This hunting property is located about 1 mile northeast of the junction of SR-95 and SR-24 near Hanksville.
L R Thayn: Located approximately 1.7 miles north of Green River.
R & A Earley: Consists of two stretches of Cottonwood Creek just north of Orangeville on Mill Dam Road.
R Pannier: Located on the southwest side of Scofield Reservoir.
R Pannier property #2: Located near the northeast end of Scofield Reservoir, about six miles north of Scofield on SR-96.
Southern Region
A Carter: This hunting and fishing property is located about 2 miles East of Minersville on SR-21.
F Kennedy: This hunting and fishing property is located about 2 miles east of Minersville on SR-21.
G Beeston East Pahvant: This hunting property is located south and west of Holden, Utah.
G Beeston Golf Course: This hunting property is located north and west of Fillmore, Utah.
G Beeston NW Old Fields: This hunting property is located north of Fillmore, Utah.
G Beeston South Cedar Mountain: This hunting property is located north of Fillmore, Utah.
G Beeston South Circus Hollow: This hunting property is located north and east of Fillmore, Utah.
G Beeston South Pahvant: This hunting property is located south and west from Holden, Utah.
J Spencer: This hunting property is located southeast of Alton.
Kingston Canyon: This property is one mile west of Otter Creek State Park.
K Nielson: This hunting property is located east of Lynndyl.
R Adams: This hunting property is located east of Paragonah.
R Yardley: This hunting property is located about 3 miles south of Beaver. From the center of Beaver, travel 1.6 miles south on SR-160 (South Main Street) to South Creek Road, then 1.6 miles southeast to the property.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-13 AT 01:07PM (MST)[p]Ya step away for a few hours and look what happens

I'm amazed how any thread about a CWMU or a particular concern about the CWMU program always turns into one of 3 things.
1--bashing landowners trying to make a buck from wildlife off their property.
2--guides and outfitters getting bashed for being creative and following the free enterprise system and questioning how one makes a living or
3--showing just how ignorant people are about the program. It really makes me laugh.

I'm happy to sit down and discuss/debate intelligently with anyone of you on line or off line about the program. Happy to answer questions about the program (as I did) happy to debate certain things you don't like about it as well. But when you can't even answer my question and make stupid ignorant comments about my income and what I do for a living I tend to turn off rather quickly.

I have said for many many times its not a perfect program but I believe it is doing a fairly good job of addressing public wildlife on private lands.

I do know this....if you really care about wildlife CWMUs are great at...
1--CWMUs beat 40 acre cabin lots all the time.
2--CWMUs give landowners an option for wildlife to be an asset rather than a liability.
3--hundreds of sportsmen now have access to property they would have never had other wise.

Stop by the expo, I should be there most all day every day, happy to meet and discuss with you. If you have your little pet peeve things you don't like about the program, you have lots and lots of opportunities to voice your opinion and make changes. That's the great thing about our state, country, and RAC and Wildlife Board process.

Best...

Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
1234,
Not sure what the WIA program has to do with CWMUs but I'm glad you brought it up because it is also a great program with lots of opportunity. I have been on every WIA in Northern Utah and know the coordinator very well. On more than one occasion I have helped him out and spent time with him looking at properties.

Let me ask you a question about this program. A few of the Northern Utah properties don't allow access until after the first few days of rifle season. This is to allow the family and friends first crack at the bucks. Do you feel this is fair to the public?

There are some interesting similarities in the two programs, but you don't see people whining and moaning about WIA properties. Why you may ask?

Because why whine about public opportunity?
 
Like I said, I'm not against the CWMU. Landowners need a way to make money. But, to say it benifits the public is false! It lets very few public through the gates and most are told when and where they can or cannot hunt. That is not fair! Shutting down the program will not help. The days of a landowner letting people just go hunt are long gone. Big $$$ is here to stay.
Now on another side CWMUs are a lot of the reason we have decent herd numbers around. Look at most public land in N Utah, it sucks!! It's overhunted and every dink buck gets slaughtered. They do a good job of building the herd for the $$$ guys
 
"Landowners need a way to make money"

I agree 100%. I don't like how they are regulated or the split with the public (tags).

The hunting on the CWMU's makes no difference to me, I'll never hunt one. However, I feel bad for someone who burns His points and has a crooked operator rip him off.
 
Blanding BOY in response to your bullet points


I do know this....if you really care about wildlife CWMUs are great at...
??? WTH??? they are GOOD at making money off state owned wildlife

1--CWMUs beat 40 acre cabin lots all the time.
that is there right, if they WANTED more $$$ they would

2--CWMUs give landowners an option for wildlife to be an asset rather than a liability.
for a 100+ years ranchers had no ploblem with wilflife on their property with a few issues depredation that were handled to alieviate them. all of a sudden BIG $$$$ is involved and they need to be PAID...

3--hundreds of sportsmen now have access to property they would have never had other wise

BS....BS

HUNDREDS????? great we sacrificed a 60+ day season to get a few tags in the process.....land that THOUSANDS hunted before BIG $$ was thrown at them....MOST of NW UT properties that are enrolled hosted PUBLIC HUNTERS for either trespass fees or for the asking...

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$...PLAIN AND SIMPLE....


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
HJB...
>Let me ask you a question
>about this program. A few
>of the Northern Utah properties
>don't allow access until after
>the first few days of
>rifle season. This is to
>allow the family and friends
>first crack at the bucks.
>Do you feel this is
>fair to the public?

not sure how this is any different to the CWMU's getting 60 days to hunt, and public hunters are given non-prime time to hunt...but at least this allows LOTS of OPPROTUNITY, it is small price to pay to get REAL access
>
>There are some interesting similarities in
>the two programs, but you
>don't see people whining and
>moaning about WIA properties. Why
>you may ask?
>
>Because why whine about public opportunity?

are you kidding me??? they don't whine about the WIA program because it DOES provide access....

similarities????
WIA provides LOTS of access and provides a landowner compensation for that access..
CWMU's provide LITTLE access to the GENERAL public and provides a landowner LOTS of $$$ and PAYING hunters PREMIUM access to STATE OWNED GAME


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
First let me say that I operated a CWMU for 10 years. Although I didn't get rich doing it, it did provide some great opportunity for me and my family to hunt. But we didn't run ramped and hunt for 60 days, we had our limited time just like everyone else.

Our clients paid for 5 day hunts with a wound/loss policy. Our State hunters were housed ,fed, guided and their animal packed out all free of charge. They too had a 5 day hunt with the same policies. I had hundreds of state hunters over 10 years and I never had one complaint. Not one. Every single person that drew a state permit thought it was the greatest thing ever.

Now........ It cracks me up everytime I read these CWMU threads. Seriously, some of you just don't get it. If you think that if these CWMU's went away you would be back in the 60's and suddenly be able to hunt these places for a small fee or a 'knock on the door' your delusional. These people OWN this land and can do whatever they want with it. Do you understand that? If you owned it wouldn't you do the same thing.?? If these folks got out of the CWMU program most would have a harder time fitting all their clients into the regular seasons AND you wouldn't get one public tag from them. Sounds like a really bad deal for both of you to me.

Back to the 60 day season. If an operator gets to kill 10 deer on his property....... why do you care if he kills them all in one day or takes the full 60. How does that affect you in any way possible? He don't get to kill as many as he wants in 60 days like you seem to think.

My last point as I'm sure I havn't changed anyones thoughts, is if you think it's such a wonderful deal..... to own all that land and do what you want with it....... why don't ya'll go get you some if it's so easy. Then you can do exactly what YOU want with it. Let all your neighbors hunt is for free like the good ol days. Thats what you'll do right.
 
cb,

How big is your mouth? Well, put your foot in it!

That makes no sense what you say. "Go buy some and do it yourself". Really, if land was that cheap, we all would. I bet almost all land owners of BIG property have had it in the family for generations. There for, did not buy the property.

We know they dont kill as many deer as they want. They have X amount of tags, but the $$$ guys get the best spot at the best time for as long as needed. The average Joe state tag gets 5 DAYS and can only hunt certain areas at certain times with generally 0 (ZERO) scouting time. But that is fair.

You are right, its their land, they can do what they want with it. Good for them. Its still does no good to the public. Let them do what they want with it. I DONT CARE. But those are public animals.
 
here is my take on the "program" you give a landowner 60+ days to hunt there property. i have said this before, here is how it breaks down, very few propertys contain all that a deer needs year round, so they can PLAN their RIFLE deer hunts around when the best deer are on their ground.
SUMMER GROUND...se ALTON...they can RIFLE hunt when the deer are their EARLY SEPT....look at ALTON's website, most if not all are shot with VELVET or just rubbed....give these deer a few weks and they are on PUBLIC, for all of us to hunt if you have the right tag...

TRANSITIONAL...hammer them in mid sept to mid oct....

RUT/WINTER.....hammer them when they start pushing does or pushed to lower ground dur to snow...

BASICALLY they can mold there hunts to match when the deer are on the property all this with a RIFLE.

MOST CWMU's have only 1 or 2 of the areas that deer need to survive...these landowners hunt them when they are using their ground. in MOST cases public hunters get the short end of that spectrum....poor hunt dates and access





How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
How ironic that you of all people would chime in here Cal. On behalf of all the 'other' hunters you stabbed in the back so that you could sink your claws into the Etchevery property, thanks. You represent the very epitome of how the cwmu program and a few slick operators effed others to secure your own interests.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Funny.....1911....i think Alot of people got screwed by them......and the sad story repeated itself all over the state.....and yes Cal in some ways it would go back.....at least to the level of trespass hunts.....then everyone wins..more opprotunity and .landowners get paid ..not just the slick operators stealing our resoures and making money while the gen public gets screwed...
 
More people have been hurt by the cwmu 's than have been. Helped...lots of money to be had.....ethics and loyalty went out the door...those woth the money or those willing to screw there friends and family got the toe hold...
 
Sad that MOST property that is eligible is in the program.....all that those guys with. Average at best ground pounding every decent buck they cann find...WHEN they cross the fence from public ground
 
Todd you are "$imply" a moron"
1.most of the people who are old enough to have lost opprotunity to hunt ground slimy guys like leased out from underneth them..the others have lost interest and moved on to play golf or fish
2."ripped off"......well if you call public hunters hunting gen season while the private dudes getting 60+....hunting with a rifle....yep...you go for todd..make your money off state owned game...screwing the gen public....
 
Amazing, right to the name calling and you can't even answer 2 simple questions, let alone articulate an intelligent response.

You and your kind continue to prove my point about lack of intelligence, ignorance, and our wonderful Utah education system or the lack there of....

BRILLIANT!!! Response genius...

Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
Todd i did answer your simple questions with simple answers just because you are to oblivious to the truth to know it....the name calling was a bonus....
You continue to show what an arrogant., short sighted and plain ignorant person you are

Thanks for being the face of the group taking opprotunity away from the gen public
 
"You and your kind continue to prove my point about lack of intelligence, ignorance, and our wonderful Utah education system or the lack there of...."

Nice condescending comment. You should really consider educating your kids in another state, since Utah is so bad..
 
This is a touchy subject but I have a few thoughts for both sides. I am not associated with any CWMU, have never applied for one of their tags, never purchased one of their tags, but have looked into them a lot out of curiosity.

1 - I posted a CWMU property a few years ago. I spent 10 days on that CWMU. I talked with adjacent land owners, the biologist for the area, the operators, and some of the land owners in the CWMU. I couldn't believe the amount of permits that were issued for deer and elk on the CMWU. The adjacent land owners were pissed because their trophy quality on their property had gone to crap over the years and they were lucky to even see a 6-point bull anymore. I saw maybe 50 elk total during my 10 days on the property and no bulls. I saw about a dozen 4-point bucks on the place but the best being 160-170. I talked to the operator the next spring and he said they killed a 360 bull, three 320 bulls, and a bunch of smaller ones. For over 70 total tags for the property, there was either a bunch of dinks killed or a lot of tag soup for hunters.

I was very unhappy with the operator and the way he treated people. He was dishonest and misleading. They don't even let the public hunters hunt until October, after they are done guiding paying customers. I would hate to draw a public tag for the unit knowing that info because all that is left are the scraps or lucky bucks/bulls that their clients missed. Horrible management practices and treatment of the public. I was even mislead in hopes of getting a guiding job after spending 10 days posting the property for them. It makes me sad to see what lengths people will go to for business.

2 - I have spent years hunting public land around private lands. I think it works both ways during the hunts. The public hunters hunt the borders waiting for bucks to jump the fence just like the private hunters do - whether or not it is a CWMU. Most public hunters hunt publics lands their whole lives and never deal with private or CWMU's. I would dare say that those of us on this site are dedicated hunters and spend the time and money and effort to hunt and kill big stuff. I personally know several public hunters that have been happy to draw a CWMU tag and have killed their biggest animal ever or had a great time hunting a CWMU. Sure you only get 5 days but most hunters only hunt the two weekends of the rifle hunt anyway so why would they complain.

3 - Not all operators/CWMU's are horrible. My brothers best friend drew a public CWMU elk tag 2 years ago. They told him he had 5 days in September and worked out the dates with the operator. They also told him that if he didn't kill those 5 days that he could hunt the weekends only in October. He saw dozens and dozens of bulls and had a great time. He missed a good 340+ bull and wound up taking a solid 320 bull in October.

4 - My last point for now concerns guides/outfitters who may operate these private lands. I have guided in Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Utah. Every state we hunted, the outfitter had leased private property. It is a way of business. It isn't cheap either. Sure the land owners could have said no and let their family and friends hunt the properties but they decided to make a few dollars instead. Is that a crime, No. Many of us would do the same. No public hunters are allowed to hunt these private properties, leased or unleased. It is an opportunity for landowners and outfitters to make a living.

Why do outfitters need to lease private, you may say? Well, working on public lands is no walk in the park. I have a small one man outfitting business and I can tell you how frustrating it is to work with the state, government, and licensing agents in regards to working on public lands. I have had a permit application in with the BLM for one office and it has been in there for over 18 months now. I can't do any guiding at all until I have the permit. I have my license from the state, my insurance, and everything but the permit. I also have a forest service permit sitting in an office now for the last 9 months. Working with private land owners is an opportunity for us to build a business and provide for our families. It crosses my mind to lease private but I can't afford to right now. Business owners have to make decisions and not everyone will agree with them. I had one of my favorite childhood parks purchased and apartment buildings built on the area. I couldn't do anything about it but it doesn't make me hate developers. Some things are just out of our control and we need to deal with it even if we don't like it.

Sorry for the long winded post but in conclusion, I think that there are some positive and some negative things about CWMU's. I don't know how we can 'weed out' the negative operators because some of them are the land owners. I do wish that the DWR would study and issue permits better especially since operators/landowners make big money off them. I don't think it would hurt to issue a few more public tags in the ratio either. Anyway, like I said, I'm no expert but that's what I've seen. Any constructive comments appreciated. Thanks
 
Foxskinner:

You make some very valid points. I appreciate you putting some thought into your response. You are the type of Outfitter I would hunt with.

As for the other guide on here, His comments speak for themself.
 
+1


There definately are some good benefits to the program, but the bad outweigh the good. I'm fairly certain the coming year will have the program looked at much harder, and hopefully some positive changes will happen.
 
>This is a touchy subject but
>I have a few thoughts
>for both sides. I am
>not associated with any CWMU,
>have never applied for one
>of their tags, never purchased
>one of their tags, but
>have looked into them a
>lot out of curiosity.
>
>1 - I posted a CWMU
>property a few years ago.
>I spent 10 days on
>that CWMU. I talked with
>adjacent land owners, the biologist
>for the area, the operators,
>and some of the land
>owners in the CWMU. I
>couldn't believe the amount of
>permits that were issued for
>deer and elk on the
>CMWU. The adjacent land owners
>were pissed because their trophy
>quality on their property had
>gone to crap over the
>years and they were lucky
>to even see a 6-point
>bull anymore. I saw maybe
>50 elk total during my
>10 days on the property
>and no bulls. I saw
>about a dozen 4-point bucks
>on the place but the
>best being 160-170. I talked
>to the operator the next
>spring and he said they
>killed a 360 bull, three
>320 bulls, and a bunch
>of smaller ones. For over
>70 total tags for the
>property, there was either a
>bunch of dinks killed or
>a lot of tag soup
>for hunters.
>
>I was very unhappy with the
>operator and the way he
>treated people. He was dishonest
>and misleading. They don't even
>let the public hunters hunt
>until October, after they are
>done guiding paying customers. I
>would hate to draw a
>public tag for the unit
>knowing that info because all
>that is left are the
>scraps or lucky bucks/bulls that
>their clients missed. Horrible management
>practices and treatment of the
>public. I was even mislead
>in hopes of getting a
>guiding job after spending 10
>days posting the property for
>them. It makes me sad
>to see what lengths people
>will go to for business.
>
>
>2 - I have spent years
>hunting public land around private
>lands. I think it works
>both ways during the hunts.
>The public hunters hunt the
>borders waiting for bucks to
>jump the fence just like
>the private hunters do -
>whether or not it is
>a CWMU. Most public hunters
>hunt publics lands their whole
>lives and never deal with
>private or CWMU's. I would
>dare say that those of
>us on this site are
>dedicated hunters and spend the
>time and money and effort
>to hunt and kill big
>stuff. I personally know several
>public hunters that have been
>happy to draw a CWMU
>tag and have killed their
>biggest animal ever or had
>a great time hunting a
>CWMU. Sure you only get
>5 days but most hunters
>only hunt the two weekends
>of the rifle hunt anyway
>so why would they complain.
>
>
>3 - Not all operators/CWMU's are
>horrible. My brothers best friend
>drew a public CWMU elk
>tag 2 years ago. They
>told him he had 5
>days in September and worked
>out the dates with the
>operator. They also told him
>that if he didn't kill
>those 5 days that he
>could hunt the weekends only
>in October. He saw dozens
>and dozens of bulls and
>had a great time. He
>missed a good 340+ bull
>and wound up taking a
>solid 320 bull in October.
>
>
>4 - My last point for
>now concerns guides/outfitters who may
>operate these private lands. I
>have guided in Washington, Idaho,
>Montana, and Utah. Every state
>we hunted, the outfitter had
>leased private property. It is
>a way of business. It
>isn't cheap either. Sure the
>land owners could have said
>no and let their family
>and friends hunt the properties
>but they decided to make
>a few dollars instead. Is
>that a crime, No. Many
>of us would do the
>same. No public hunters are
>allowed to hunt these private
>properties, leased or unleased. It
>is an opportunity for landowners
>and outfitters to make a
>living.
>
>Why do outfitters need to lease
>private, you may say? Well,
>working on public lands is
>no walk in the park.
>I have a small one
>man outfitting business and I
>can tell you how frustrating
>it is to work with
>the state, government, and licensing
>agents in regards to working
>on public lands. I have
>had a permit application in
>with the BLM for one
>office and it has been
>in there for over 18
>months now. I can't do
>any guiding at all until
>I have the permit. I
>have my license from the
>state, my insurance, and everything
>but the permit. I also
>have a forest service permit
>sitting in an office now
>for the last 9 months.
>Working with private land owners
>is an opportunity for us
>to build a business and
>provide for our families. It
>crosses my mind to lease
>private but I can't afford
>to right now. Business owners
>have to make decisions and
>not everyone will agree with
>them. I had one of
>my favorite childhood parks purchased
>and apartment buildings built on
>the area. I couldn't do
>anything about it but it
>doesn't make me hate developers.
>Some things are just out
>of our control and we
>need to deal with it
>even if we don't like
>it.
>
>Sorry for the long winded post
>but in conclusion, I think
>that there are some positive
>and some negative things about
>CWMU's. I don't know how
>we can 'weed out' the
>negative operators because some of
>them are the land owners.
>I do wish that the
>DWR would study and issue
>permits better especially since operators/landowners
>make big money off them.
>I don't think it would
>hurt to issue a few
>more public tags in the
>ratio either. Anyway, like I
>said, I'm no expert but
>that's what I've seen. Any
>constructive comments appreciated. Thanks

Good post. I agree all day long that there are positive and negative factors of the CWMU program. I also agree that there are several improvements that can/should be made to the program.

My only argument is that I honestly think we can make the improvements and we just need the support from the public to do it. I have a huge list of questions and proposals that I add to every time one of these posts comes up about the program. If we document our concerns and try to prove a valid point that the program needs a change, we can do it. The problem is that we don't get enough people willing to attend meetings and speak out it public.

Some simple changes could really improve the program without ticking off the landowners and guides.

I hate to say it again, but gripping at the keyboard will do NOTHING for the program. Get involved!
 
with out ticking off the land owners and guides, are you shizztn me or what , thats the joke of the whole thing, youve forgot who owns the wildlife, just like they have,,,,,
 
Imo change the rifle hunt to 30 days, the whole month of Oct. Keep the same arch and muzz dates. Give the public hunters a pre set program wide 5 days prior to drawing. Shooting velvet deer the first of September with a rifle is bullsheeit as well as rut elk rifle hunts. My first ever elk was shot in Sept. Of 1995 on a PHU and it wasn't much of a hunt. Haven't rifle hunted elk in September since. These so called guides on these cwmu shouldn't need 61 days to get it done. Stricter criteria to be enrolled in the program .... Only 15,000 deeded acres with a limit of land owners per cwmu. All of the cwmus with 14 land owners to make up 5,000 acres are a joke imo. There are to many cwmus that are to small in size to manage.
The cwmus are only as good as the habitat/management and the operators. Some are first class but most are an abused waste of a public resource that very few benifit from. Id like to see it modeled after Colorado's RFWs but there Dow is not as controlled by the dollar... Lastly ax the moose tags and put them all in the public draw and build the herd.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-13 AT 10:07AM (MST)[p]MOST sportsmen don't have the time to fight this scurge of CWMU's, BE CAREFUL smokepole you make sense....i do think the program has it place and benifits, but only the large ranch's like you said model it after the ranching for wildlife/colorado program....for the MOST part they have TAKEN away opprotunity... i am always reluctsnt to post anything about the "program" because i know a certain "guide"/know it all will post how they the CWMU program have single handedly saved our deer herds and we would be in deep trouble if we mess with the rules, he even stated that DESERET would high fence there ranch and make the DWR KILL all wildlife inside.....WTH....



How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
Treed, I agree with your being reluctant to say anything negative about the program, there is a lot of money and political connections tied up with cwmu's. And it won't be changing anytime soon. It would be nice if there was more structure in the program and not so much power given to the discretion of the individual operator/outfitter. With that said i have had 6 PHU/CWMU (none being cow/doe)tags over the years and only drew one and the one i drew it wasnt worth the time to even hunt the tag and never did set foot on the ranch. Id hate to see the program go away but would like to see it improved and have only larger ones which can actually be managed.
 
RE: CWMU

As long as guys like blanding boy and are making a easy buck off our wildlife we we continue to get the short end of the deal.it is a shame what greed and entitlement of our landowners have done to our state. Only in Utah do landownersexpect to be paid to have wildlife . Use there property
 
RE: CWMU

Maybe we could do away with all the CWMU's and go back to the old days were some of the private land owners will not let people on to hunt and have the DWR come in and kill all the deer and elk that go on their property. Then have the DWR pay for the damage that the deer and elk have done on private property. There are still a few places today that this is going on. I think that is why the CWMU program has been more popular with the DWR. It saves wildlife and keeps the big land owners happy.
 
RE: CWMU

Birdman is that you or sfw speaking...we had alot more deer back then...there you go..guys like blanding boy and CB is what has turned the gen public against them....oh ya HJB is another
 
+1 on axing the CWMU moose tags up north. The moose herd has been dwindleing and is in the shitter as we speak, but the tag numbers are not reduced for the CWMU's but all the OIL tags are taking a back seat.
 
No trust, it is me speaking and not SFW. I can tell you that I watched three nice bucks before the deer hunt this year and two weeks before the hunt a land owner shot them. Also the elk hunt west of the freeway in Utah and Juab county was changed from limited entry because of crop damage and the land owners complaining about the damage. DWR refused to give tags to the landowners to sell and instead gave money to the landowners for the damage. Now the goal is to wipe out the elk west of the freeway and they have done a great job of that.
As for the moose tags and CWMU's, the tags have been reduced on the CWMU's. No cow tags anymore and CWMU's lost some tags. Some CWMU's gave up the moose tags just because of the moose numbers dropping. That was the results given at the Wild Life Board meeting which had very few, maybe 5 people in attendance. The DWR has been really good at lowering tags on CWMU's and even dropping CWMU's from the program if they do not hold up to the rules. The thing that bothers me on some of these posts is that people speak not knowing what is going on. They do not attend WLB or RAC meetings to find out what is going on. They just start talking about things and do not know what is really going on. At the last RAC meeting in Central Utah there was two people that were not DWR. Those same two people attended the WLB and maybe 3 others.
 
So why can't NR hunters put in for the public draw for CWMU.
Simple answer is because they want to sell you a tag instead of you drawing one.$$$$$$$ just more BS.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>+1 on axing the CWMU moose
>tags up north. The
>moose herd has been dwindleing
>and is in the shitter
>as we speak, but the
>tag numbers are not reduced
>for the CWMU's but all
>the OIL tags are taking
>a back seat.

Do you have any idea how many moose tags are issued on CWMUs? First of all, there are only a few Moose CWMUs in the state. Second, they are only issued 1 maybe 2 tags per public/private hunter. Deseret issues the most at 10 total, and that covers 215,000 acres of land.

I'm pretty sure the public land hunts make a bigger impact on moose pops than CWMUs do.
 
RE: CWMU

>Birdman is that you or sfw
>speaking...we had alot more deer
>back then...there you go..guys like
>blanding boy and CB is
>what has turned the gen
>public against them....oh ya HJB
>is another

Don't say that about me. I'm all about hunting opportunity and the public sportsman. Don't rag on me for trying to support public hunting. We may disagree about the CWMU program, but remember my intentions. I'm not a guide or an outfitter. I'm not a land owner or a rich guy either. I will never be able to afford a CWMU hunt. I make just enough money to get by, so public land and programs like the CWMU and WIA provide me with opportunities to hunt land which I would never see if it weren't for the programs.

I support the public sportsman and any opportunity I see that allows me to enjoy more of the state and the wildlife. Don't hate me because of that.
 
Hjb, There were some where around 45 public cwmu tags last year, so depending on the tag split that could be over 120+ tags including the public permits and in perspective there were around 60 or so oil LE moose tags given state wide.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 11:54AM (MST)[p]For the year of 2011 moose tags were as follows
LE 99
CWMU 90
private 51 tags
public 39 tags

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE 2012 BREAKDOWN....THEY GAVE 70 LE TAGS

DESERET is ONE of a few CWMU's that do provide access where it was limited before, here is how they breakdown, do the math and they make a MILLION PLUS off there wildlife program....

A MILLION PLUS to allow access....

i had one know it all tell me that DLL would HIGH FENCE and have the DWR KILL off all the wildlife...BS

MOOSE population 150
desert had 2 public tags and 1 public

ELK population 2500
private 66 tags
public 13

DEER pop 3500
private 52
public 13

GOATS pop 600
private 27
public 22
 
You are right, there are about 70-80 total Moose tags for the CWMU program. I didn't realize there were so many in the central part of the state, I was focused on the North. There a lot more than what I was thinking. I also made a mistake on Deseret, they only give out 4 tags not 10.

My bad.
 
Kind of shocking to see this breakdown of the moose tags...ONCE IN A LIFETIME TAGS.....SOLD BY A LANDOWNER.....ALL THE MONEY TO TRANSPLANT AND STUDY SO SOME DUDE CAN FILL HIS POCKET.....only in utah.....but remember . Need them more than we need them.....thanks CB and BLANDING BOY and all you game thiefs.....FOR NOTHING.....LOST OPPROTUNITY AND FOR STEALING OUR WILDLIFE...THANKS
 
Where did you get those population and tag stats from for Deseret? In my opinion, I think every CWMU should have published stats like this. They post population and tag number stats for every unit in the state I believe so since CWMU's are basically their own sub-units, why can't they post stats like that? They are suppose to give CWMUs tag numbers based on population numbers so this shouldn't be hard data to publish. Also I think harvest and satisfaction of hunters on these units should be factored into permit numbers. If a unit is doing a good job at managing their wildlife numbers then keep them with tag numbers and such. If a CWMU is asking for and getting too many permits for their population and the quality of hunt is crap then something should be done with the unit, like the one I mentioned in my post above. What would be so hard about that?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 04:21PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-13 AT 04:20?PM (MST)

kind of interesting here are the permits for moose
2011 2012
OGDEN 11 to 4
CACHE 12 to 5
DESERET 3 to 4

where did all the moose go??? i know they transplanted a bunch to Colo, sooooo we transplant PUBLIC moose to COLO and save the PRIVATE herds for $$$$ for the landowners....thats my guess...
here is a thought!!!!! trap and transport ALL private moose herds to available PUBLIC lands. according to our resident expert from Hyrum they are not welcome on private property unless the landowners get paid....he constantly reminds me how we are lucky to have the CWMU's to save our herds from extintion,

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
here is the link to the DLL website, they do not provide any of this info on the DWR website. it would be nice to see EVERY CWMU info on the DWR website with dates they survey to support the tag #'s given....




How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
I listen to a northen cwmu rep pleading with the dwr at a rac meeting about how he needed two moose tags instead of one because he had already sold them both. Pretty entertaining.
 
You are right Deerlove. There was a CWMU arguing about an extra tag that they had sold. The dwr took a tag away from them after they had sold it. I believe in return of getting the extra tag they lost a private tag next year. I can remember the situation but can not remember if they got the tag or not. The information of all CWMU's can be found on the DWR web page. It takes some time to look and find out. Every year the tags are juggled depending on the wildlife available and tags issued. If the tags are lowered in the state, they are lowered in the CWMU's. The DWR claims that the CWMU's help in increasing the population of wildlife because it helps them also in making some money. The state says it is a plus for the wildlife and the state. I watched the listing of desired tags from CWMU's and the DWR's decision of how many tags they should have. The wildlife board sights most the time with the DWR.
 
Birdman explain your statement
"If the tags are lowered in the state, they are lowered in the CWMU's"

when in fact DESERET gained a tag and the public tags (OGDEN and CACHE) went down by 14 tags

Also " I watched the listing of desired tags from CWMU's and the DWR's decision of how many tags they should have. The wildlife board sights most the time with the DWR"

with only a FEW exceptions CWMU's get what they want....the moose tag is a good example, a CWMU can over sell a permot and still get the tag to sell, another OIL tag diverted to the highest bidder....that TOOK the opprotunity for a PUBLIC hunter.



How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
If the tags lowered so are the CWMU tags. I know that there are situations say where a three year period, and that is what CWMU's apps run, that they may receive 5 tags and they must be split up. They could have had 1 their first year and 2 the next two years. Just depends. If tags need to be cut, then they are. I watched this year at the WLB and I do not know of with the exception of 1 where the CWMU got what they wanted. That being where one extra tag had been sold in a mix up on tag allocations. They were given the tag, I think, with the rule that they loose a tag next year. I know that you are down on CWMU's. I do not care either way. But I attend all possible RAC meetings and WLB meetings so that I know what is going on. I do it so I know. Not many people attend unless it is something that strikes them hard. Treedagain, I am not sure where you get your information but I do know where I get mine. Mine is not hearsay from anyone else but at the meetings where it all takes place. I am not here to argue. I will admit that I do not know everything but I know what goes on at the WLB and that is where the final say is.
 
Back to the subject that started this thread ....I think it's bogus that some units kill so many deer in November. I get that some units don't have deer until late, but why can they kill so many. I live close to a Cwmu that must kill the vast majority of their allotment in November. It's fine they can hunt some in November, but why don't we make it so they kill an even percent throughout their 60 days? Its not right that they're harvesting so many deer in the rut.
 
>I listen to a northen cwmu
>rep pleading with the dwr
>at a rac meeting about
>how he needed two moose
>tags instead of one because
>he had already sold them
>both. Pretty entertaining.

So this JOKER is just like the DWR huh?

Selling Game/Permits they don't have?






"""Supporting Speed Limits doesn't make You Anti Car"""

No & You'll never Fix STUPID or WACKO'S by changing Gun Laws You Dumb BITTCH!
 
I have hunted on the raft river for years. There are 3 cwmu's that are all around me up there. They have almost 3 months or so of hunting with lots of tags. I have watched that place go to pot. Public hunters only have a few days to hunt per season, and accross the fence they are wacking deer all fall. Befor long all the deer out there will cross go into or through the cwmu, and get shot. How is that fair to the public? If I draw that tag I my get 5 days with no scouting and 1 friend with me. My oppion give them the same time as everyone to hunt. How many deer would that save. What is the success on puplic groung, maybe 8%. What is the kill rate on cwmu's maybe 90% or higher.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-13 AT 01:41PM (MST)[p]THE ELK SITUATION IS A JOKE IN NW UT......MORE or EQUAL PUBLIC GROUND INCLUDED TO ALLOW THEM A SPOT IN THE PROGRAM. HUGE AMOUNTS OF OPPROTUNITY LOST TO ALLOW LANDOWNERS TO MAKE A$$$$


the raft river range is a perfect example of how CWMU's change the dynamics of public/private hunting. a couple of these propertys were RARELY hunted for deer prior to enrolling in the program. FLATHEAD is correct the deer get movede off public by the intense pressure from the 3 public season's and get wacked once they cross over the fence, CWMU's have the luxury to spread out the hunting to take advantage of this pressure.
here is a list of the propertys, PRIOR to the start of the "program" with a little doing MOST of the range was accessible to hunt. NOW you better show up with your checkbook, and hope your balance is high enough to satisfy the landowner, even for lions

CLEAR VALLEY RANCH
INDIAN CREEK
MOUNTAIN MEADOW
PARK VALLEY
PARK VALLEY HEREFORD

GROUSE CREEK RANGE is the same story, operators when the deer are using the ground.

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait
 
And nothing is worse than putting the sneek on a deer out there and hearing the gun shots going off on the other side of the fence. How is that fair the can use a rifle and I get a bow. O some will say that some lucky public hunter will get to hunt that cwmu. The WORST five days of the season With no scouting. I will trade my right to hunt with them if they have to hunt the same way and season. There are a lot of guys on here wishing hunting wasent such a big money game. Cwmu's Are a big part and they kill more than there fair share of deer.
 

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