Don Peay: The Man Who Would Be King...Baron

Here is the entire article so those who cannot go to the site can still read it... LONG READ...


Don Peay: the Man Who Would Be King? Baron
by Bob Ferris


Don Peay
Rudyard Kipling wrote a tale once about two pals in the British army serving in India who figured they could travel north to Kafiristan in present-day Afghanistan and essentially create their own mini-kingdom. The tale was fanciful and was eventually turned into a popular 1975 movie starring Sean Connery and Michael Caine called ?The Man who would be King? named after Kipling?s novella.

But the absurd nature of this fictional exercise of kingdom creation has not stopped Don Peay, founder of Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Utah Chapter of the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, and Full Curl Society as well as co-founder of Big Game Forever LLC from seeing this as a model for taking the first steps towards bringing that oh-so-modern concept of feudalism to the United States. And?wait for it?having the taxpayers make significant contributions to the diminishment of their rights and privileges. Want details?

Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism. Ouch?strong words for a system that was established so that everyone, not just royalty and gentlepersons, could enjoy this public resource without being branded, beaten or hung for simply hunting, trapping or fishing. (Mr. Peay should understand that both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are the functional equivalents of emancipation documents expressly written in response to past abuses and to protect us from future peril.)

"One state at a time, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife is dismantling the very idea of a public wildlife resource, and replacing it with special privileges for the privileged." Ben Long in High Country News

There are some nuances and spins to what Mr. Peay and his colleagues like Corey Rossi?past head of Alaska?s wildlife agency?recently ousted for a dozen wildlife violations?are trying to do, but the ?nose under the tent? on their grand scheme is creating programs that privatize wildlife and grant ?special? people ?special? rights to wildlife owned by all of us. Those special rights would include hunting outside of hunting seasons, creating areas free of predators, and providing economic incentives for creating super-productive areas on private lands that could include food plots and supplemental feeding (read large-scale baiting) which would likely act to draw game off surrounding public lands.

The introduction of the Canadian Grey Wolf into Northern Rocky Mountains was a wildlife management expirement (sic) which has gone horribly wrong. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation calls it "one of the worst wildlife management disasters since the destruction of bison herds". Quote from David Allen former NASCAR executive on Montana Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife website

The ecological, economic and social pitfalls of this approach are myriad. We?with the exception of trophy hunting groups like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?have seen the folly of creating feeding grounds for species such as elk and deer. This scheme taken to its conclusion creates large, fenceless game farms with greatly reduced biodiversity. It also creates a dynamic to spread more wildlife diseases faster. If you want chronic wasting disease and Brucellosis hot spots?please sign on the dotted line.

The economics are dicey, too. Right now many people derive income from hunting and fishing from guides and hotel owners to gas stations and restaurants. Game species are spread rather than concentrated and hunting licenses and access are managed in a manner that optimizes participation and spreads income across a broad base. What happens to this dynamic when portions of the harvestable game base are drawn away from their current distribution pattern into large, private refugia that can easily accommodate and would welcome their own, on-site facilities including private air strips? To understand this potential impact think about what Wal-Marts on the outskirts of towns have done to Main Street, America.

Socially this is a case where quality experiences become more and more reserved for people of quality. In Mr. Peay?s world the biggest and best would be reserved for the ?knights? of industry in the land of corporate jets and the rest of us would simply have to suffer along with the leavings and obey rules.

This would also further enhance what are now huge ranches almost exclusively in the West. Given that these private ranchlands were made possible in large part because of past federal largess like the Homestead Act, made practical through past federal actions displacing their former native and human inhabitants, and made richer by current federal benefits such as farm subsidies and nominal federal grazing fees, you would think that these ranchers, Peay and their allies would first drop a little of their anti-federal rhetoric. Their near schizophrenic irony of uber-patriotic ranchers hating and badmouthing of the very hand that made their lives possible has always struck me as strange.

And you would also think that they would not be so quick about asking state legislatures and game agencies for privileges and monies that would further their campaigns to create what would essentially be modern-day Baronies?subsidized by the generosity of the ?King? and enjoying a rarified legal setting. Mr. Peay?s recent request from the state of Utah for $300,000 so he could lobby the federal government on wolves is a perfect example of this entitled attitude and has drawn considerable ire from a number of quarters (see 1, 2, 3, 4).

?The delisting of the wolf is critical for the recovery and safeguarding of our precious big game assets in America." ?Ted Nugent on Big Game Forever LLC website

Also Baron Von Peay should also understand?as many of us do?that the most vocal and visible opponents of Socialism are typically Fascists. But Mr. Peay?s dealings are a little bit more complex than first meets the eye and it is a mistake to simply characterize him as a politically motivated hater of wolves and serial founder of conservation organizations. In addition to his ?conservation? actions, he has manufactured an intricate spiders? web of non-profits and for-profits that has put hundreds of thousands of dollars into his own coffers (see page 7 and page 8 for examples).

?We have been in the business of selling big game hunting packages to high end clients who sought to hunt with the top tier big game outfitters.? World Trophy Outfitters profile

Spider?s web may even be an understatement. One rapidly gets tired and fuzzy when looking at the m?lange of entities set up by this ambitious chemical engineer and petroleum industry consultant turned wildlife entrepreneur. From his first attempts as a hunting impresario with World Trophy Outfitters, Inc. to his current, more successful efforts to do essentially the same thing in his non-profit empire, this has been a story of building a well-connected?yet cryptic?universe.

Some of these relationships are easy to sort out and some are more complicated. Take for instance the relationship with Chris Carling and Brand X Communications in Salt Lake City. Brand X does the web work for several of Peay?s non-profit ventures and Mr. Carling is also the public relations contact for Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. Brand X is apparently connected with the domain Donpeay.com in some manner as well as the website for the proposed Jordan Cove LNG export facility near Coos Bay which will be facilitated by fracking in the very states where Peay?s groups are most powerful. The business suite where Brand X is located is also the business address listed for Big Game Forever LLC and the former address of record for Sportsmen for Romney.

?As of March 31, 2007, we had acquired fourteen Dall Sheep hunts for the 2007 and 2008 seasons with Kelly Hougen of Arctic Red River Outfitters, ten of which have been resold. The relationship between Arctic Red River Outfitters and WTO is that of a purchaser and seller of services and these organizations are not affiliated.? World Trophy Outfitters Inc. Securities and Exchange Commission filing Form 10-KSB for Fiscal year 2007 page 4

And then there is the whole issue with Arctic Red River Outfitters which appears to be owned in part by Peay but also partially owned by Sportsmen for Habitat with officers in common. And yet on their IRS 990 forms SFH claims no business relations with current or former board members. What? It is all very interesting but I will leave this to some ambitious investigative reporter who has the time and energy to sort out this can-o-worms or a similarly motivated IRS or SEC agent who ought to be asking some questions.

?As a conservationist, it outrages me that animal rights extremists are using wolves as biological weapons to destroy 100 years of conservation in the western United States.? Jeff Foxworthy?Comedian on Big Game Forever LLC website

Peay?s business model is unfortunately a simple one that we have seen before: pedal wolf hatred to those most vulnerable to the messaging and then take millions of dollars? worth of public resources (in the form of game permits) and sell them to the rich, privileged and influential. His one variation from this is when he and his entourage sell chances for a coveted permit?letting hundreds act as a virtual ?person of privilege??keeping the myth of equality alive.

"My MacMillan River Adventure partner Keith Mark and I are extremely proud of our relationship with Big Game Forever because they are the one organization that recognized the damage that was occurring and the potential total devastation that would occur to our precious wildlife if the wolf issue was not addressed.? Shawn Michaels WWE Hall of Fame on Big Game Forever website

He has been quite effective using the Four Horsemen of American Ignorance (i.e., NASCAR, Wrestling, Redneck Humor, and Ted Nugent) in recruiting an army of willing wolf killers. The Montana Chapter of the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, for instance, gives away free memberships to individuals who furnish pictures of themselves with dead wolves. SFW-MT is careful, however, to point out that they do not want pictures of wolves in traps. Apparently, they understand that there are limits.


There are a lot of chicken and egg issues with Peay and his operations. Is he trying to forward big game recovery or trying to maximize his connections and curry favor with rich donors to forward his political fundraising? Why is the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo run by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and Mule Deer Foundation a non-profit event rather than a for-profit enterprise because it looks like there is a whole lot more commerce taking place than conservation? And where is the non-profit argument of public good and benefit in creating better hunting opportunities for folks with an extra $20,000 or $100,000 rolling around in their jeans and in making sure outfitters are fully booked and taxidermists busy? The charitable purposes of these entities simply seem swamped by the commercial and the political undertones. And this impression is only magnified by the public financial reporting which lacks a certain openness in detail.
Like Kipling?s Daniel Dravot and Peachy Carnehan, Peay is of humble beginnings. When you read his self-narrative you almost feel sorry for the boy whose family lacked the $35 to let him play football, but when he compensates for that missing ?sport? in his life by taking 500-yard shots at rare animals the sympathy factor melts away quickly. He is all about trophies whether it is being photographed next to whatever carcass he has recently created or standing near ##### Cheney, George W. Bush or Orin Hatch.

Peay should realize in all of this that the Kipling tale is also a cautionary one. It describes the ultimate consequences to one who climbs too high and then falls when the myths he has created and promoted are shown to be without merit. What will happen in all of this when the enabling state wildlife agencies realize that they would probably get more value and benefit if they sold these game permits themselves instead of allowing them to be used to build this convoluted financial empire and thinly disguised political machine? And when will the everyday hunters out there understand that they are complicit in enriching these groups who are aggressively creating a system designed expressly to grant their precious rights to the privileged few while they are left with the leavings?

So what needs to happen? Folks need to tell their wildlife agencies in western states that they do not want their precious wildlife in the form of hunting tags and permits given to Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Big Game Forever, or the Full Curl Society to be used in their campaigns to enrich themselves and privatize wildlife. We also need to remind these agencies of their Public Trust responsibilities to manage wildlife for the public and not just for wealthy trophy hunters and ranchers. And we need also to remind these wildlife agencies and their governing boards that wildlife should be managed based on the best available science. In other words, let wildlife agency employees use the degrees that they worked so long and hard to earn. Here are the electonic links (e-mails and forms) as well as the snail mail and phone for Wyoming. Please let them know how you feel and pass this blog post around so that others do the same. Thank you!


Tallbuck1
 
"Don Peay
Rudyard Kipling wrote a tale once about two pals in the British army serving in India who figured they could travel north to Kafiristan in present-day Afghanistan and essentially create their own mini-kingdom. The tale was fanciful and was eventually turned into a popular 1975 movie starring Sean Connery and Michael Caine called ?The Man who would be King? named after Kipling?s novella."

But the absurd nature of this fictional exercise of kingdom creation has not stopped Don Peay, founder of Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Utah Chapter of the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep, and Full Curl Society as well as co-founder of Big Game Forever LLC from seeing this as a model for taking the first steps towards bringing that oh-so-modern concept of feudalism to the United States. And?wait for it?having the taxpayers make significant contributions to the diminishment of their rights and privileges. Want details?"

You bet!

"Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism."

Look up socialism. Thats pretty much what it is.

" Ouch?strong words for a system that was established so that everyone, not just royalty and gentlepersons, could enjoy this public resource without being branded, beaten or hung for simply hunting, trapping or fishing."

And thats socialism. By the way now we just beat brand and hang the people who don't fill out a tag right. Or they paoch an animal and we badger their friends about it for the next 18 years. Your right a whole lot has changed.

" (Mr. Peay should understand that both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are the functional equivalents of emancipation documents expressly written in response to past abuses and to protect us from future peril.)"

Not getting a deer tag is your future peril???????

""One state at a time, Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife is dismantling the very idea of a public wildlife resource, and replacing it with special privileges for the privileged." Ben Long in High Country News"

You mean those other guys that own the wildlife too? COrrect???

"There are some nuances and spins to what Mr. Peay and his colleagues like Corey Rossi?past head of Alaska?s wildlife agency?recently ousted for a dozen wildlife violations?are trying to do, but the ?nose under the tent? on their grand scheme is creating programs that privatize wildlife and grant ?special? people ?special? rights to wildlife owned by all of us. Those special rights would include hunting outside of hunting seasons, creating areas free of predators, and providing economic incentives for creating super-productive areas on private lands that could include food plots and supplemental feeding (read large-scale baiting) which would likely act to draw game off surrounding public lands."

No body has been provided special hunting rights. Some people get special hunting privilages.

"The introduction of the Canadian Grey Wolf into Northern Rocky Mountains was a wildlife management expirement (sic) which has gone horribly wrong. The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation calls it "one of the worst wildlife management disasters since the destruction of bison herds". Quote from David Allen former NASCAR executive on Montana Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife website"

There isn't even a point in this paragraph. Why is it here?


"The ecological, economic and social pitfalls of this approach are myriad. We?with the exception of trophy hunting groups like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation?have seen the folly of creating feeding grounds for species such as elk and deer. This scheme taken to its conclusion creates large, fenceless game farms with greatly reduced biodiversity. It also creates a dynamic to spread more wildlife diseases faster. If you want chronic wasting disease and Brucellosis hot spots?please sign on the dotted line."

Actually in a state, Texas where ther is vast amounts of suplimental feeding we have less CDW than any of the other western states.

"The economics are dicey, too. Right now many people derive income from hunting and fishing from guides and hotel owners to gas stations and restaurants. Game species are spread rather than concentrated and hunting licenses and access are managed in a manner that optimizes participation and spreads income across a broad base. What happens to this dynamic when portions of the harvestable game base are drawn away from their current distribution pattern into large, private refugia that can easily accommodate and would welcome their own, on-site facilities including private air strips? To understand this potential impact think about what Wal-Marts on the outskirts of towns have done to Main Street, America. "

Sounds more like socialism again doesn't it?

"Socially this is a case where quality experiences become more and more reserved for people of quality. In Mr. Peay?s world the biggest and best would be reserved for the ?knights? of industry in the land of corporate jets and the rest of us would simply have to suffer along with the leavings and obey rules."

Back to cheesy opinion and no facts.

"This would also further enhance what are now huge ranches almost exclusively in the West. Given that these private ranchlands were made possible in large part because of past federal largess like the Homestead Act, made practical through past federal actions displacing their former native and human inhabitants, and made richer by current federal benefits such as farm subsidies and nominal federal grazing fees, you would think that these ranchers, Peay and their allies would first drop a little of their anti-federal rhetoric. Their near schizophrenic irony of uber-patriotic ranchers hating and badmouthing of the very hand that made their lives possible has always struck me as strange. "

And now we go back to class warfare.

"And you would also think that they would not be so quick about asking state legislatures and game agencies for privileges and monies that would further their campaigns to create what would essentially be modern-day Baronies?subsidized by the generosity of the ?King? and enjoying a rarified legal setting. Mr. Peay?s recent request from the state of Utah for $300,000 so he could lobby the federal government on wolves is a perfect example of this entitled attitude and has drawn considerable ire from a number of quarters (see 1, 2, 3, 4)."

Are you angry because he thought of it first? DO you want anyone out there lobbying against wolves?

"?The delisting of the wolf is critical for the recovery and safeguarding of our precious big game assets in America." ?Ted Nugent on Big Game Forever LLC website"

Is there a point here regarding this Peay dude?

Also Baron Von Peay should also understand?as many of us do?that the most vocal and visible opponents of Socialism are typically Fascists. But Mr. Peay?s dealings are a little bit more complex than first meets the eye and it is a mistake to simply characterize him as a politically motivated hater of wolves and serial founder of conservation organizations. In addition to his ?conservation? actions, he has manufactured an intricate spiders? web of non-profits and for-profits that has put hundreds of thousands of dollars into his own coffers (see page 7 and page 8 for examples).

Well you didn't know what socialism was and you have run out of names to call this guy so now we just start calling him a fascist. Obviously you don't know what that is either.

"?We have been in the business of selling big game hunting packages to high end clients who sought to hunt with the top tier big game outfitters.? World Trophy Outfitters profile"

More junk thrown in that has nothing to do with the article.

Spider?s web may even be an understatement. One rapidly gets tired and fuzzy when looking at the m?lange of entities set up by this ambitious chemical engineer and petroleum industry consultant turned wildlife entrepreneur. From his first attempts as a hunting impresario with World Trophy Outfitters, Inc. to his current, more successful efforts to do essentially the same thing in his non-profit empire, this has been a story of building a well-connected?yet cryptic?universe.

Some of these relationships are easy to sort out and some are more complicated. Take for instance the relationship with Chris Carling and Brand X Communications in Salt Lake City. Brand X does the web work for several of Peay?s non-profit ventures and Mr. Carling is also the public relations contact for Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. Brand X is apparently connected with the domain Donpeay.com in some manner as well as the website for the proposed Jordan Cove LNG export facility near Coos Bay which will be facilitated by fracking in the very states where Peay?s groups are most powerful. The business suite where Brand X is located is also the business address listed for Big Game Forever LLC and the former address of record for Sportsmen for Romney."

God forbid you do business with people you know and trust! I am sure no one else here would do such a thing!

"?As of March 31, 2007, we had acquired fourteen Dall Sheep hunts for the 2007 and 2008 seasons with Kelly Hougen of Arctic Red River Outfitters, ten of which have been resold. The relationship between Arctic Red River Outfitters and WTO is that of a purchaser and seller of services and these organizations are not affiliated.? World Trophy Outfitters Inc. Securities and Exchange Commission filing Form 10-KSB for Fiscal year 2007 page 4

And then there is the whole issue with Arctic Red River Outfitters which appears to be owned in part by Peay but also partially owned by Sportsmen for Habitat with officers in common. And yet on their IRS 990 forms SFH claims no business relations with current or former board members. What? It is all very interesting but I will leave this to some ambitious investigative reporter who has the time and energy to sort out this can-o-worms or a similarly motivated IRS or SEC agent who ought to be asking some questions."

They own part of an outfitiing company! They must be stopped!

"?As a conservationist, it outrages me that animal rights extremists are using wolves as biological weapons to destroy 100 years of conservation in the western United States.? Jeff Foxworthy?Comedian on Big Game Forever LLC website"

Is this actually three or for arguements mashed together? DId someones kid get hold of this with cut and paste?

"Peay?s business model is unfortunately a simple one that we have seen before: pedal wolf hatred to those most vulnerable to the messaging and then take millions of dollars? worth of public resources (in the form of game permits) and sell them to the rich, privileged and influential. His one variation from this is when he and his entourage sell chances for a coveted permit?letting hundreds act as a virtual ?person of privilege??keeping the myth of equality alive."

Nobaod y has to "pedal" wolf hatred to sell kick ass game tags. They sell plenty fine on their own.

""My MacMillan River Adventure partner Keith Mark and I are extremely proud of our relationship with Big Game Forever because they are the one organization that recognized the damage that was occurring and the potential total devastation that would occur to our precious wildlife if the wolf issue was not addressed.? Shawn Michaels WWE Hall of Fame on Big Game Forever website

He has been quite effective using the Four Horsemen of American Ignorance (i.e., NASCAR, Wrestling, Redneck Humor, and Ted Nugent) in recruiting an army of willing wolf killers. The Montana Chapter of the Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, for instance, gives away free memberships to individuals who furnish pictures of themselves with dead wolves. SFW-MT is careful, however, to point out that they do not want pictures of wolves in traps. Apparently, they understand that there are limits."

Is this an arguement?


There are a lot of chicken and egg issues with Peay and his operations. Is he trying to forward big game recovery or trying to maximize his connections and curry favor with rich donors to forward his political fundraising? Why is the Western Hunting and Conservation Expo run by Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and Mule Deer Foundation a non-profit event rather than a for-profit enterprise because it looks like there is a whole lot more commerce taking place than conservation? And where is the non-profit argument of public good and benefit in creating better hunting opportunities for folks with an extra $20,000 or $100,000 rolling around in their jeans and in making sure outfitters are fully booked and taxidermists busy? The charitable purposes of these entities simply seem swamped by the commercial and the political undertones. And this impression is only magnified by the public financial reporting which lacks a certain openness in detail."

#/4 of this paragraph runs right back to class warfare.

"Like Kipling?s Daniel Dravot and Peachy Carnehan, Peay is of humble beginnings. When you read his self-narrative you almost feel sorry for the boy whose family lacked the $35 to let him play football, but when he compensates for that missing ?sport? in his life by taking 500-yard shots at rare animals the sympathy factor melts away quickly. He is all about trophies whether it is being photographed next to whatever carcass he has recently created or standing near ##### Cheney, George W. Bush or Orin Hatch."

What is wrong with having your picture with a politician and a dead animal?

"Peay should realize in all of this that the Kipling tale is also a cautionary one. It describes the ultimate consequences to one who climbs too high and then falls when the myths he has created and promoted are shown to be without merit. What will happen in all of this when the enabling state wildlife agencies realize that they would probably get more value and benefit if they sold these game permits themselves instead of allowing them to be used to build this convoluted financial empire and thinly disguised political machine? And when will the everyday hunters out there understand that they are complicit in enriching these groups who are aggressively creating a system designed expressly to grant their precious rights to the privileged few while they are left with the leavings?"

The state agencies do sell game tags themselves you idiot.

"So what needs to happen? Folks need to tell their wildlife agencies in western states that they do not want their precious wildlife in the form of hunting tags and permits given to Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife, Sportsmen for Habitat, Big Game Forever, or the Full Curl Society to be used in their campaigns to enrich themselves and privatize wildlife. We also need to remind these agencies of their Public Trust responsibilities to manage wildlife for the public and not just for wealthy trophy hunters and ranchers. And we need also to remind these wildlife agencies and their governing boards that wildlife should be managed based on the best available science. In other words, let wildlife agency employees use the degrees that they worked so long and hard to earn. Here are the electonic links (e-mails and forms) as well as the snail mail and phone for Wyoming. Please let them know how you feel and pass this blog post around so that others do the same. Thank you!"


Probably one of the worst written propoganda pieces I have ever seen on here. Peay may or may not be scum but this paper is for sure garbage.


Tallbuck1
 
Why does post #2 not surprise me with more little ditty BS comments interspersed throughout like seems to be SOP now for this guy. Hey, you just hijacked another thread after only one post and that certainly has to be a new record for you! What a troll!!!
 
Nice guys, really nice guys.

This kind of thread and subsequent postings certainly show true colors. Does anyone know where the high-road is any more?

Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 09:47AM (MST)[p]>Nice guys, really nice guys.
>
>This kind of thread and subsequent
>postings certainly show true colors.
>Does anyone know where the
>high-road is any more?
>
>Zeke


WOW... Why do you have to bag on people an their opinion? The "high-road" is staying informed.
 
"Also Baron Von Peay should also understand?as many of us do?that the most vocal and visible opponents of Socialism are typically Fascists."

One of my favorite parts....
 
>
>WOW... Why do you have
>to bag on people an
>their opinion? The "high-road"
>is staying informed.



I said nothing about the "topic".. if that's what you're trying to use as "information", go right ahead.

I do have a real problem with how we treat each other on this site. If you think that a personal attack is justified simply because you have a different opinion, then you are part of the problem. I suspect you can understand that?????????

Zeke
 
">Funny how the trolls cry the
>loudest when an opposing troll
>shows up."

With that comment you obviously have no idea what a troll is, so maybe you're one of those lovers that needs to wake up and get your head out of the sand as to what is going on!!! If you then take a close look and still condone legalized theft of taxpayers money that mostly is going to line several people's pockets, you deserve what you get in Utah!
 
>
>I do have a real problem
>with how we treat each
>other on this site. If
>you think that a personal
>attack is justified simply because
>you have a different opinion,
>then you are part of
>the problem. I suspect you
>can understand that?????????
>
>Zeke

Agreed... I think things get taken way out of context. Communication via a forum sometimes get taken the wrong way because there is no feeling sensed.


Tallbuck1
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 10:16AM (MST)[p]Baron Von Peay and SFW are a cancer to the hunting community

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln
 
"Why does post #2 not surprise me with more little ditty BS comments interspersed throughout like seems to be SOP now for this guy. Hey, you just hijacked another thread after only one post and that certainly has to be a new record for you! What a troll!!!"


Actually after all these posts I am the only one who posted a comment directly about the article.

Talbuck, I know you posted the letter for others to read. I in no way was personaly attacking you. I only attacked the letter itself. Thank you for posting.
 
Thanks for the article. Tons of interesting information.

Long's article on SFW was one of my favorites. If you haven't read it, look it up.

I have a brochure from Arctic Red River on my kitchen table. I was going to book a caribou hunt with them next year. Not now. I'll find somebody else.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
"Talbuck, I know you posted the letter for others to read. I in no way was personaly attacking you. I only attacked the letter itself. Thank you for posting."

Thank you Tri.


Grizz... I was thinking the same thing with my Dall hunt. I wonder if there is any real way to verify if SFW or any of the People involved from within SFW have any Financial ties to Arctic Red River... I for one don't want to start any rumors so does any one know for sure?

Tallbuck1
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-13 AT 11:30AM (MST)[p]">Topgun,
>
>Thank you for reinforcing my point."


***And what point was that? Other than you don't seem to care that Peay and company are taking hundreds of thousands of dollars away from wildlife and using it for their own gain! What the heck; it's just business as usual on their part and again you don't seem to have a problem with it---sad, very very sad!!!
 
I thought Eric Holder said only the president could use drones against unsuspecting American citizens. Did I miss something and SFW et al can now use drones as well?
 
>"Talbuck, I know you posted the
>letter for others to read.
>I in no way was
>personaly attacking you. I only
>attacked the letter itself. Thank
>you for posting."
>
>Thank you Tri.
>
>
>Grizz... I was thinking the same
>thing with my Dall hunt.
> I wonder if there
>is any real way to
>verify if SFW or any
>of the People involved from
>within SFW have any Financial
>ties to Arctic Red River...
>I for one don't want
>to start any rumors so
>does any one know for
>sure?
>
>Tallbuck1

Check out this site.. http://businessprofiles.com/details/arctic-red-river-outfitters-ltd/CA-6734502/don-peay

It shows Don Peay as an officer of Arctic Red River Outfitters as well as Byron Bateman, Ryan Foutz, and Tavis Molnar.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Geez, all they need to do is get Benson involved in that Red River outfitting business and they'll have it covered from one end to the other!
 
Speaking of Corey Rossi, anyone see him at that Expo thingy this year? Heard he was there last year.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & the SFW Dislike Club
 
>
>>Check out this site.. http://businessprofiles.com/details/arctic-red-river-outfitters-ltd/CA-6734502/don-peay
>>
>>
>>It shows Don Peay as an
>>officer of Arctic Red River
>>Outfitters as well as Byron
>>Bateman, Ryan Foutz, and Tavis
>>Molnar.
>>
>>Grizzly
>
>ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!? Thank you
>so much for the information.
>
>Guess I will be looking elsewhere
>for booking my Dall hunt.
>
>
>
>Tallbuck1

I obviously can't verify the authenticity. But you can read the link as well as I can. Unbelievable.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
>I obviously can't verify the authenticity.
> But you can read
>the link as well as
>I can. Unbelievable.
>
>Grizzly

It was dated back in January of 2012... Sure does raise a few more questions in my mind...


Tallbuck1
 
You mean Jan 27, 2013

Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
You mean Jan 27, 2013

Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife, and the conservation of all our natural resources, are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall be exploited by the few against the interests of the majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural resources for the public as a whole, for the average man and the average woman who make up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of means."
 
Oh my hell people, can we not recognize what this article is? Look at the site where this article was posted. A tree hugging, wolf loving, anti hunting website. Ask yourself something. Why would a site like this post an article on Don Peay and the organizations he is affiliated with ? It is not because they are worried about your hunting heritage. We need to wake up and see what is going on here. They see SFW/BGF as a threat. What they the antis see as a threat, we should see as an allie. Love or hate these organizations they are making a difference.
It seems to me there is a race on MM to be the first to post anything anti SFW regardless of its origin.
 
Just because the site it came from is from enviro's doesn't mean that the article is wrong. If you have a problem with the article dispute the facts. Lets deal in the facts. I don't care who said them or why. FACTS are FACTS.


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
>Just because the site it came
>from is from enviro's doesn't
>mean that the article is
>wrong. If you have a
>problem with the article dispute
>the facts. Lets deal in
>the facts. I don't care
>who said them or why.
>FACTS are FACTS.
>
>
>I wanted to take a scalp,but
>the kill was not mine.
>


Have you asked yourself the question yet, why was this article posted where it was ? What do you think the purpose of this article is ? We have wolves eating our wildlife, and wolves like Bob Ferris disguised as a concerned sportsmen. I believe this article to be a distraction to keep hunters at each others throats. They the antis can't allow us to unite in effort or they will loose the battle.
 
JMO, Please point out any facts that are wrong. I'm open for factual dialog.

I don't see this article dividing hunters at all. If your saying that we should look the other way at what SFW has been doing, then your nuts.

Dispute the article. Tell me what's wrong, and show some proof.


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
"JMO, Please point out any facts that are wrong."


There are no facts in the letter. Its an opinion hit piece. It just rambles from Socialist propoganda, to classwarfare. Then the demonization of being photoed with a politician. Then they start calling people fascists. Then they don't even realize the states actually DO sell hunting tags. Then they are upset because the some guy owns part of outfitting companies. Its a mash up of tittybaby whining.
 
Tri, lets look at the "FACTS" of this "OPINION" piece.

Fact #1:

{Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism.}


Fact #2:

{There are some nuances and spins to what Mr. Peay and his colleagues like Corey Rossi?past head of Alaska?s wildlife agency?recently ousted for a dozen wildlife violations?are trying to do, but the ?nose under the tent? on their grand scheme is creating programs that privatize wildlife and grant ?special? people ?special? rights to wildlife owned by all of us. Those special rights would include hunting outside of hunting seasons, creating areas free of predators, and providing economic incentives for creating super-productive areas on private lands that could include food plots and supplemental feeding (read large-scale baiting) which would likely act to draw game off surrounding public lands.}

Fact #3;

{And you would also think that they would not be so quick about asking state legislatures and game agencies for privileges and monies that would further their campaigns to create what would essentially be modern-day Baronies?subsidized by the generosity of the ?King? and enjoying a rarified legal setting. Mr. Peay?s recent request from the state of Utah for $300,000 so he could lobby the federal government on wolves is a perfect example of this entitled attitude and has drawn considerable ire from a number of quarters}

Fact #4:

{Spider?s web may even be an understatement. One rapidly gets tired and fuzzy when looking at the m?lange of entities set up by this ambitious chemical engineer and petroleum industry consultant turned wildlife entrepreneur. From his first attempts as a hunting impresario with World Trophy Outfitters, Inc. to his current, more successful efforts to do essentially the same thing in his non-profit empire, this has been a story of building a well-connected?yet cryptic?universe.

Some of these relationships are easy to sort out and some are more complicated. Take for instance the relationship with Chris Carling and Brand X Communications in Salt Lake City. Brand X does the web work for several of Peay?s non-profit ventures and Mr. Carling is also the public relations contact for Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife. Brand X is apparently connected with the domain Donpeay.com in some manner as well as the website for the proposed Jordan Cove LNG export facility near Coos Bay which will be facilitated by fracking in the very states where Peay?s groups are most powerful. The business suite where Brand X is located is also the business address listed for Big Game Forever LLC and the former address of record for Sportsmen for Romney. }

Fact #5:

{And then there is the whole issue with Arctic Red River Outfitters which appears to be owned in part by Peay but also partially owned by Sportsmen for Habitat with officers in common. And yet on their IRS 990 forms SFH claims no business relations with current or former board members. What? It is all very interesting but I will leave this to some ambitious investigative reporter who has the time and energy to sort out this can-o-worms or a similarly motivated IRS or SEC agent who ought to be asking some questions. }

So what "FACTS" do you have a problem with?

Facts are a problem unless you can dispute them.

I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
You do realize there is nothing illegal or damning in your "facts"?????


This "fact" really cracks me up.

"Brand X is apparently connected with the domain Donpeay.com in some manner"

What the hell does that mean? Can you really call this a fact? Thats like saying me and Obama are connected somehow since I have watched TV.

Face it. The letter is a poorly written opinion hit piece. There may be great ways to show how bad of a person Don Peay is or isn't, but this definately fails.
 
"Fact #1:

{Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism.}"


Could you please quote where the 10th ammendment says this please.
 
{Peay, who stressed that the Utah chapter isn't trying to push its view in Alaska or even with the Alaska chapter, said it's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource. Peay described that egalitarian doctrine, found in Alaska's state constitution and laws throughout the West, as "socialism." It offers no economic incentive for landowners to kill predators, improve big game habitat and even provide food and water for target species.}

Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/03/03/2350508/private-hunting-rights-weighed.html##storylink=cpy}

Here it is again:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...ares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”

How about here: http://www.hcn.org/blogs/range/sportsmen-stab-theodore-roosevelt-in-the-back

You want more?




I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
It's not hard at all!
I posted the Newspaper article. Actually several articles. Use the links, even a baby could find them and verify.

Seriously dude!



I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
Could you please verify that the 10th ammendment states that "individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust".

Much Thanks
 
http://www.adn.com/2012/03/03/2350508/private-hunting-rights-weighed.html##storylink=cpy}

I am dying to see tristate jump on in the comment section at the end of this article. Just to watch. :)

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & the SFW Dislike Club
 
Thanks for the post Zim. I found it a very interesting article to read and much better written than the garbage that started this thread. It actually looked like the article was written to paint these new wildlife theories in a positive light. The oposition interviews were nothing more than propogandized rants. It made the oposition look really bad, I am surprised that was the best the writer could find. However the proponents of the new plan came off looking like they could explain their position very clearly. One thing the article left me wishing for was a timeline for Mr. Rossi's public career and his accused criminal behavior along with prosecution. I see this article is from a year ago. Does anyone know if Mr Rossi was convicted and what for?

Much Thanks,

Ben
 
GREAT READ, thanks for posting ZIM... It is amazing that some of the Utards still cannot see through the smoke and haze that Don has been selling. Others outside of Utah aren't so blind to Don's tricks and are calling the so called facts to the carpet. BOUT TIME... when will UTAH WAKE UP??? TIME TO TAKE WILDLIFE BACK FOR THE PUBLIC AND NOT JUST FOR THE WEALTHLY!

I woke up a few years ago from the koolade, it bothers me that others are still drinking it thinking that it is getting better...

Back in 2001 I asked several questions about Pheasants, chuckars, fish and many other wildlife species in Utah... The response from Don, Troy, and others was to turn a blind eye... Funny that it is only recently that fishing clinics and SFW releasing 3k pheasants has been happening.

Question, is SFW shelling out to help rossi with his situation?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-13 AT 07:40AM (MST)[p]It doesn't surprise me at all that Tri would try to spin that article as he did in his post and I'll leave it at that. As far as DB Rossi, here ya go Tri:

Corey Rossi Enters Guilty Plea in 2008 Bear Hunt Violations
May 04, 2012|By Chris Klint | Channel 2 News

ANCHORAGE, Alaska Corey Rossi, the former director of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game Division of Wildlife Conservation, entered a guilty plea Friday in relation to illegal activities during a 2008 big-game bear hunt.

Rossi plead(ed) guilty to a consolidated count for falsifying a bear sealing certification and one count of unlawful acts by a Big Game Guide, Alaska State Troopers spokesperson Megan Peters said in a statement Friday. The agreement calls for a three year suspension of his Big Game License with two years suspended, $10,000 fine with $5,000 suspended, 60 days in jail with all 60 suspended, informal probation for three years and the revocation of hunting privileges for one year.

Rossi resigned in January after being charged with a dozen misdemeanor counts related to the hunt, during which he allegedly helped two out-of-state hunters take three black bears and took another bear himself in Game Management Unit 16B. Although Fish and Game Commissioner Cora Campbell subsequently thanked Rossi for his service, critics accused Rossi of intimidating biologists and aggressively pursuing a policy of predator control.
 
"It doesn't surprise me at all that Tri would try to spin that article as he did in his post and I'll leave it at that."


Spin what? I gave a fairly plane jane opinion of it. Hell I even said it was better than the letter that started this thread.


Thanks for the info regarding the prosecution of Rossi though. It helped fill in a blank.
 
It's highly doubtful that article was printed to cast a positive light the way you stated, but you have opinions that always differ from 99.9% of others, so let's just leave it at that.
 
4100, As you know, newspapers and magazines are printed to be sold. The better the article the better the selling. It just reminds me of when I and another was interviewed by the Salt Lake Tribune two years ago about the expo. In the article it stated that at the expo a person could learn about golf and even try out different golf clubs. Another article stated football and different sports. None of that has ever been at the expo.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-13 AT 09:08AM (MST)[p]>4100, As you know, newspapers
>and magazines are printed to
>be sold. The better
>the article the better the
>selling. It just reminds
>me of when I and
>another was interviewed by the
>Salt Lake Tribune two years
>ago about the expo.
>In the article it stated
>that at the expo a
>person could learn about golf
>and even try out different
>golf clubs. Another article
>stated football and different sports.
>None of that has ever
>been at the expo.


Sounds like people in Utah can't get much of anything correct!!! Just kidding Birdman, but you always ask for things and when it's given you never believe it might actually be true if it's not what you want to hear! FYI what you mentioned could be considered mistakes. However, when the media quotes a person, such as we're discussing here, they have to get it right or face libel and slander lawsuits. I haven't heard of any being filed by DP against any media saying any ot those quotes of his were not accurate. Have you?
 
>GREAT READ, thanks for posting ZIM...
> It is amazing that
>some of the Utards still
>cannot see through the smoke
>and haze that Don has
>been selling. Others outside
>of Utah aren't so blind
>to Don's tricks and are
>calling the so called facts
>to the carpet. BOUT
>TIME... when will UTAH WAKE
>UP??? TIME TO TAKE
>WILDLIFE BACK FOR THE PUBLIC
>AND NOT JUST FOR THE
>WEALTHLY!
>
>I woke up a few years
>ago from the koolade, it
>bothers me that others are
>still drinking it thinking that
>it is getting better...
>
>Back in 2001 I asked several
>questions about Pheasants, chuckars, fish
>and many other wildlife species
>in Utah... The response from
>Don, Troy, and others was
>to turn a blind eye...
> Funny that it is
>only recently that fishing clinics
>and SFW releasing 3k pheasants
>has been happening.
>
>Question, is SFW shelling out to
>help rossi with his situation?
>


Well said,....I to worked for/with SFW for many years,...as well did some of my friends. I was shocked to see the release of Pheasants, with the support of SFW. I was told by the big 5 of SFW,.... Pheasants were a lost cause. Already written off by the DWR. Dont worry about it!!
 
I was told the same thing... Pheasants and habitat are a lost cause and there is no point is wasting money on a lost cause. But now they dont? My how times have changed, has habitat gotten better since ten years ago? I just got the feeling that they like to make promises and then NOT follow through except when it comes to High ticket tags... Hard to sell a state wide Hen Pheasant tag to the highest bidder... Sure does make me wonder why all of the sudden SFW is trying to change there "Image" as the voice of the sportsman of Utah. IMHO, to little to late to change certain peoples minds.

My money will has now been going to UWC, Chuckar Foundation, DU, Delta Waterfowl, and NOT Going to the larger corrupt conservation groups that try to pull the wool over my eyes.




>Well said,....I to worked for/with SFW
>for many years,...as well did
>some of my friends. I
>was shocked to see the
>release of Pheasants, with the
>support of SFW. I was
>told by the big 5
>of SFW,.... Pheasants were a
>lost cause. Already written off
>by the DWR. Dont worry
>about it!!
 
The only thing negative they could enter in the script was about Rossi's criminal issues. Everything else just seemed like reporting on the sides of the issues. Lets just leave it at that.
 
>>hmmm
>
>What's the hummmm for?

just interesting about the pheasant deal with sfw. looks like a bit of damage control to me is all.
 
>>>hmmm
>>
>>What's the hummmm for?
>
>just interesting about the pheasant deal
>with sfw. looks like
>a bit of damage control
>to me is all.


TOTALLY!!!! Same with the fishing event last year, and them donating the wheelchair (not that it isn't cool or thought of before) ramp.
 
Lets talk about the pheasant situation. Since I was involved in the pheasant transplant. Pheasants or any other species can not be turned loose without the DWR permission. SFW quoted the DWR on the pheasant situation years back. The DWR said no need as the pheasants were gone. It was SFW that got it going and the state finally gave permission. SFW spent $35,000 on the pheasants and the permission to turn them loose only with the permission of the DWR. The DWR said where they could be released and had to be present. It was a joint effort getting them on the ground. SFW has promised to continue for the next three years. The new director of the DWR has promised to get involved and pledges $150,000 also toward the replenishment of the pheasants. Little do people know what and how things work within the laws of the state. Transplants of anything must be approved either by the state or by the federal government. It just can not happen because someone or an organization wants it to. Hoops must be jumped through.
 
Anyone know if the Goose trailer that was purchased a few years ago by the Davis Committee was used in the past couple of years? From my knowledge it was a lot of hype to help but yet it is still sitting around the FB refuge... Whats the problem SFW, cannot sell statewide Crane, Swan tags anymore so who cares about the Waterfowl and Upland game?

What happened to transplanting the nannies from willard peak to a couple of areas to increase the opportunity for more goat tags instead of killing nannies???

I also remember them talking about transplanting some of the chuckars from antelope island to other parts of utah to help chuckars populations... It could be used as a nursery just like sheep...

Like I said before, a WHOLE lotta smoke and mirrors from the big 5 and now like it was pointed out... IMAGE Damage Control is about to happen. I would be that SFW is now going to be pushing a lot more of these projects to show us they do care about other wildlife besides deer, elk and sheep.

Man I love Don... Full of broken promises just like an x wife...
 
>Lets talk about the pheasant situation.
> Since I was involved
>in the pheasant transplant.
>Pheasants or any other species
>can not be turned loose
>without the DWR permission.
>SFW quoted the DWR on
>the pheasant situation years back.
> The DWR said no
>need as the pheasants were
>gone. It was SFW
>that got it going and
>the state finally gave permission.
> SFW spent $35,000 on
>the pheasants and the permission
>to turn them loose only
>with the permission of the
>DWR. The DWR said
>where they could be released
>and had to be present.
> It was a joint
>effort getting them on the
>ground. SFW has promised
>to continue for the next
>three years. The new
>director of the DWR has
>promised to get involved and
>pledges $150,000 also toward the
>replenishment of the pheasants.
>Little do people know what
>and how things work within
>the laws of the state.
> Transplants of anything must
>be approved either by the
>state or by the federal
>government. It just can not
>happen because someone or an
>organization wants it to.
>Hoops must be jumped through.
>

We pitched this LONG (2003 or 2004) ago with Ron Greer (sp) from the nothern office and IT WAS SFW that bagged the idea...NOT the division!



Tallbuck1
 
"Man I love Don... Full of broken promises just like an x wife..."


DO you have any quotes where this Don guy promised you these things?
 
>DO you have any quotes where
>this Don guy promised you
>these things?


Unfortunately I don't. Don is great at getting things "off the record". I remember very specifically discussing this stuff with him in parking lots prior to banquets. Also remember discussing them at committee meetings and board meetings of DIRECTLY asking them and getting Nasty looks from people and also told that it wasnt worth bringing up because they are not worth the effort due to the ROI for sportsman...
 
>"Man I love Don... Full of
>broken promises just like an
>x wife..."
>
>
>DO you have any quotes where
>this Don guy promised you
>these things?


I know I am going to regret makeing this post but I must!!!!....Tristate, I dont know you or what your personal affilation is with SFW. But my God,.....you are makeing me sick with the way you defend these guys. Either you are really someone else here under another name. Or you are a paid cheerleader. You giggle their privates, just a little to much for me. There are far to many people on this site, that know the real truth about these guys, to even waste time debateing with you!!
 
8mm,
The truth according to who? The haters on this site? Always claiming to know all the bad stuff that the SFW and Don do yet it never sticks. The SFW grows and people join. You would think with ALL these FACTS you guys could get something to stick...but nope, nothing yet. Just talk and internet posting.

Oh its coming or we got the smoking gun this time. Oh I was involved I saw things, I heard things. Oh this time we know stuff and we are gonna expose and topple this evil empire and yet here it is just internet posting.

SFW pushing for pheasants, they talk to the new Director and he goes in and sets aside 150K for pheasants this year. And you guys wanna cry about it! That just shows even when good is done you complain. Thats the case every time I turn around. The SFW shows results and still complaining still fighting against an organization showing results.
 
We cried for helping the pheasants.... They didn't want to! Now your saying its only because of the new director that the pheasants happened! Bull crap! They need to good face changes, this just helped them. Don is good at what he does and he has done good but there have been bad too, why can't you admit that? I sure can.
Tallbuck1
 
The 10th states that anything not specifically covered in the Constitution shall fall to the states. Wildlife ownership is not covered anywhere else in the Constitution, therefore it defaults to a state by state control.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."


I believe, and it's just my opinion, the last thing Big Game Forever wants to happen is for wolves to be managed. If that happens, then the money dries up.

Do you REALLY think that the American Cancer Society wants to see a cure for cancer? They might have originally, but the money is too big now. Same with BGF and wolves.

Isn't Mr Peay also on record as saying that all wildlife should be privately owned? I think so, but I may be wrong.
 
Tall,
Not what I said at all. The SFW released pheasants in Sevier last year before the new director was even decided. Oh believe me I disagree with Don on many issues. Just because I defend the organization does not mean I don't still disagree.

There is ZERO wrong with the pheasant stuff why on earth would you use that as a negative other than to just complain???

We all have things that others could question or nit pick....know what I mean Tall. Things that others might question. So I'm sure Don is no different....in fact I know he's not. But I still support the overall cause.
 
"The 10th states that anything not specifically covered in the Constitution shall fall to the states. Wildlife ownership is not covered anywhere else in the Constitution, therefore it defaults to a state by state control.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.""

Thank you desert bull. So it doesn't state anywhere that the wildlife belongs to the public is my point. And in fact each state can decide seperately who controls the wildlife and not be in defiance of the COnstitution or the Federal government. This is in disagreement to the opening letter of this thread and the "facts" according to 4100fps.
 
I don't post much, but thought I would tell my story about pheasants and SFW. I have been on the SFW Sevier Committee for the last 3 years. In the late fall of 2011 our committee met to start planning for the 2012 banquet. Troy asked if we would be interested in try to reintroduce pheasants in the valley. He felt if we could raise some money at our banquet he could try to get some matching funds.

Well we did our part and Troy and SFW came back 10 fold. In the beginning the only opposition we met was from the Division, it took some work to get a green light to let the birds go.

From what I have seen it was not until after SFW release several thousand birds for the 2012 hunt did the Divisions decide to add any money for pheasants.

I don't know what happen in other chapters or what was said before. But all I know is we are working hard to get some birds back on the ground.

Another 2000 birds were release a couple of weeks ago and we can use all the help we can get to kill every predator in the WMA's, if this is going to be successful. In the area I'm over we are trapping coons, fox, and skunks as much as we can. But I know I have already lost 7-10 birds of the 55 we let go. It will be a tough fight. I think hawks are our biggest enemy.
 
>Tall,
>Not what I said at all.
> The SFW released pheasants
>in Sevier last year before
>the new director was even
>decided. Oh believe me
>I disagree with Don on
>many issues. Just because
>I defend the organization does
>not mean I don't still
>disagree.


Mul,

How can you defend an organization but yet question the motives and issues from the founder? Seems kinda funny to me...


>
>There is ZERO wrong with the
>pheasant stuff why on earth
>would you use that as
>a negative other than to
>just complain???

Mul,

Your right, there is NOTHING wrong with the pheasants release, the issue is that they were brought up to the table to help LONG ago and SFW and the orgainaztion turned a blind eye to helping. there is to much habitat loss so what is the point, was there response. If that was the case 10 years ago, what has changed to NOW step up to the plate after we begged and pleaded???


>We all have things that others
>could question or nit pick....know
>what I mean Tall.
>Things that others might question.

Yes, I know NOBODY is perfect on any level Mul... but it sounds like you know more?


>So I'm sure Don is
>no different....in fact I know
>he's not. But I still
>support the overall cause.
 
FYI the PUBLIC, as a whole, IS the State in which they live! Therefore, the public in each state owns the wildlife and the State Government oversees it for the good of the public. How they do it obviously varies from state to state, but not the fact that the state controls it. Please don't come back with anything regarding exotics in Texas, since they are not what this is discussing. Even the high fence places in Texas have to adhere to the game laws in existence there for the native animals of the state.
 
Tristate,

What is the deifnition of state?


As it applies here I believe it is this.

"an organized political community, living under a government"

You may disagree.
 
"FYI the PUBLIC, as a whole, IS the State in which they live!"

Really??? SO I am Montana. Sweet I am putting in as a resident this year.

" Therefore, the public in each state owns the wildlife and the State Government oversees it for the good of the public."

If the state so decides. The state could decide no one owns any wildlife and still not be in violation of the 10th ammendment.

" How they do it obviously varies from state to state, but not the fact that the state controls it."

The state is not forced to control anything by the 10th amendment. The state can decide to turn a blind eye to it if they choose.

" Please don't come back with anything regarding exotics in Texas, since they are not what this is discussing. Even the high fence places in Texas have to adhere to the game laws in existence there for the native animals of the state."

According to your discussion of the 10th amendment the state can decide that all of your property belongs to the public as long as the feds don't have control of it first.

This is what I mean about the NACM. It has given yall some false entitlement attitude where you think your deer tag is guaranteed by the US constitution. Time to realize your foundation has been built on sand.
 
The statement was made was by Don Peay not me. I was quoting him, remember. {Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism.} Don said that. Get your chit together.

I never said a word about the wildlife belonging to the people as coming from the constitution. It came from the "Public Trust Doctrine" Now do you believe in the that the wildlife should be managed for the good of the people and held in trust for them.the public trust doctrine holds that certain natural resources, including wildlife, have no owners and therefore belong to all citizens. Do you agree with that statement?


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
That twisting and stretching of everything that was said is exactly why you are thought of as one big joke and troll on this site!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-13 AT 02:36PM (MST)[p]"The statement was made was by Don Peay not me. I was quoting him, remember. {Let's start with the fact that Mr. Peay believes that our current constitutional construct established under the 10th Amendment where the individual states have control and ownership of wildlife and hold it in the Public Trust is Socialism.} Don said that. Get your chit together."

That is not a quote! That is YOUR interpretation of a quote. The only place where they have quoted Peay is the word "socialism". I am sure he has said something is socialism. I want the exact quote where he said the 10th amendment gaurantees the public owns wildlife. Get your chit together.

"I never said a word about the wildlife belonging to the people as coming from the constitution."

What is at the top of this page. That is your text. Is your memory bad after 10 seconds?

" It came from the "Public Trust Doctrine" Now do you believe in the that the wildlife should be managed for the good of the people and held in trust for them."

No I do not!

"the public trust doctrine holds that certain natural resources, including wildlife, have no owners and therefore belong to all citizens. Do you agree with that statement?"

No. I do not agree. Your statement contradicts itself. Wildlife has no owners so we all own it. Do you realize how silly that is.
 
"That twisting and stretching of everything that was said is exactly why you are thought of as one big joke and troll on this site!!!"


Really I am the one person trying to "um-stretch" this deal. No where does the 10th amendment gaurantee state ownership of anything.
 
Why any one of you even respond to Tristate is beyond me. He's the smartest guy around. I will now just skip over anything he posts. People are just feeding his ego. Lets see......a taxidermist, biologist, and a joke. He's never even heard of SFW until he started posting here 3 months ago.
 
The "Public Trust Doctrine" was decided by Courts, and resulted from the 10th Amendment. The author was to vague for you! Your trying to find a crack for Don to slime through. The FACT is Don called our system of Wildlife Management "Socialism" take that for what it is.
 
v In 1842 the Supreme Court ruled that the Magna Carta had settled the question of who owns fish and wildlife and that King Charles II did not have the authority to give away the �dominion and property� of lands in colonial America. The court further ruled that since the American Revolution the people held public trust responsibilities for fish and wildlife except for rights specified in the U.S. Constitution.

v In 1892, the Supreme Court declared that the "Sovereign Lands" of a state are held in trust by the State for all present and future generations, and that such land may not be sold for development incompatible with uses covered by the Public Trust Doctrine.[4]

v In 1896, the Supreme Court declared that the states� property right in game was to be exercised as a trust for the benefit of the people of the state.[5] Up until this ruling the 10th Amendment of the Constitution only appeared to give states jurisdiction over wildlife. This court case is considered by many to be the core ruling of states� public trust authority over wildlife

v The Lacey Act of 1900 utilized the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce to initiate federal involvement in wildlife conservation by prohibiting transportation across state lines of wildlife killed in violation of state laws.[6] Since 1900 the Lacey Act has been amended numerous times as federal and state government public trust authorities have been further refined.

v It took about seven years (1913-20), two Acts of Congress (the Migratory Bird Act of 1913 and the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918) and two Supreme Court rulings (the first ruled the 1913 Act unconstitutional and the second upheld the 1918 Act) before the role of Congressional Treaty Powers were sorted out as related to migratory birds and the public trust doctrine concept applied to the management of migratory birds.[7] The 1918 Act and subsequent Supreme Court ruling gave the federal government a strong basis for leading the conservation and management of migratory birds resulting in the application of the public trust doctrine in many treaties for the protection of migratory birds.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-13 AT 03:22PM (MST)[p]AKA,
I did not say I questioned the motives of Don, I simply stated that I disgree on some issues with him. He knows that my own father and I have had many a disagreement over the SFW. I still support the group, because I see the big picture and the value the group brings to all sportsmen and women in my state.

So because the SFW did nothing when you asked about pheasants then we should not support what they are doing now. That seems like you have a personal issue and had your feelings hurt. So by all means lets not support it now because you didnt get it when you wanted it to happen.

As far as knowing more I have heard rumors and stories however I chose not to drag them out on a public forum and claim them to be fact. Because the are just that rumors, Im sure we all understand that on some level.

Over and over again I hear they did this they didnt do that. Oh just wait I have bombshell to drop. Oh I have talked to a state rep or senator and this going to blow up. And guess what....NOTHING. Nothing happens, they gain more support and they continue to help wildlife and the internet haters keep posting and throwing mud. They do more for that wildlife in this state than any other group. Show me FACTS that support other wise and I surely join that group also.
 
>Anyone know if the Goose trailer
>that was purchased a few
>years ago by the Davis
>Committee was used in the
>past couple of years?
>From my knowledge it
>was a lot of hype
>to help but yet it
>is still sitting around the
>FB refuge... Whats the problem
>SFW, cannot sell statewide Crane,
>Swan tags anymore so who
>cares about the Waterfowl and
>Upland game?
>
>What happened to transplanting the nannies
>from willard peak to a
>couple of areas to increase
>the opportunity for more goat
>tags instead of killing nannies???
>
>
>I also remember them talking about
>transplanting some of the chuckars
>from antelope island to other
>parts of utah to help
>chuckars populations... It could be
>used as a nursery just
>like sheep...
>
>Like I said before, a WHOLE
>lotta smoke and mirrors from
>the big 5 and now
>like it was pointed out...
>IMAGE Damage Control is about
>to happen. I would
>be that SFW is now
>going to be pushing a
>lot more of these projects
>to show us they do
>care about other wildlife besides
>deer, elk and sheep.
>
>Man I love Don... Full
>of broken promises just like
>an x wife...


Im not sure who you are due to your profile being disabled , but it sounds like you were on the Weber/Davis SFW committee. The talk of transplantling goats was discussed in our local chapter meetings. There are many projects discussed in our meetings as we brainstorm on projects that would benefit wildlife, and our community. The goat transplant I believe was shot down by the DNR so the idea never went beyond the discussions in our meetings. No promises were made, the project was a thought. Hopefully it will be readressed at a later time. My point is we are constantly thinking of projects, but not all come to fruition.
As far as the goose trailer goes you will have to ask the DWR. We were approached as a committee by the dwr for help in purchasing the trailer. We obliged them, and even helped them with some transplants. We were not given any authority as to how and when it would be used. I believe we fulfilled our duty by purchasing the trailer for the DWR. I don't believe SFW is to blame if this trailer is not used as much as you would like. Please contact them for info if you please.
I am curious as to who you are? Please pm me.

Justin Oliver
 
I know I am going to regret makeing this post but I must!!!!....Tristate, I dont know you or what your personal affilation is with SFW. But my God,.....you are makeing me sick with the way you defend these guys. Either you are really someone else here under another name. Or you are a paid cheerleader. You giggle their privates, just a little to much for me. There are far to many people on this site, that know the real truth about these guys, to even waste time debateing with you!!


Come on. What do you expect from someone who hasn't even bothered to educate themselves about Rossi. That ship sailed along time ago. It was discussed MANY times on this thread. His conviction and the entire case. It's been in the news. Everywhere. But prostate needs someone to send him the links( hold his hand) to show Tristate about Rossi. Prostate needs to learn to do some research himself before he opens his pie hole.

Educate yourself Tristate.











Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
Thankyou BuzzH for proving my point that the 10th ammendment does not declare who has "ownership" of wildlife. It only states that states can have "authority" over their wildlife.
 
"Come on. What do you expect from someone who hasn't even bothered to educate themselves about Rossi. That ship sailed along time ago. It was discussed MANY times on this thread. His conviction and the entire case. It's been in the news. Everywhere. But prostate needs someone to send him the links( hold his hand) to show Tristate about Rossi. Prostate needs to learn to do some research himself before he opens his pie hole.

Educate yourself Tristate."


I was not a member here when these things happened. I asked a solid question that I had regarding the prosecution of this person. I made no declaration of agreement or disagreement to his prosecution. So I was doing my research before I opened my "pie hole".

Learn to read BillyBoy.
 
I think its funny I have one guy on here saying I am a closet operative for SFW and another member saying I didn't even know who SFW was 3 months ago.

Can you guys get on the same page. Its like herding cats around here.
 
Do you really know what has to take place to transplant goats or any animal in the State? I do not think so. It is not, lets do it, type thing. Even the DWR has their hands tied as to what they can and can not do when transplanting animals.
I know that 4100 is supposedly quoting Don Peay but he is not. He is quoting a printing of an article about Don. As I said before, the articles are made to sell and not all things said are true. If you did not hear him say that himself it becomes hearsay.
Even though pheasants have been transplanted, it was not SFW saying we are just going to do it. There had to be coordination with the DWR. They are the one's who said how many birds and where they were to be planted. I think that there is a lot of people on this sight that have no idea what has to take place in any transplant of any species in Utah.
 
Do you guys get some type of payment for starting these dumbaZZ threads....on M&M??

Love him or hate him-----

DP is here to stay....

Let it go will ya ~~

Robb
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-13 AT 09:23PM (MST)[p]Kansas said it best my friend Robb.....


"Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky"..... :)

Hope you are well bro.

Tony Abbott
 

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