DWR in bed with houndsman???

Bigwiffy

Bigwiffy

Very Active Member
Messages
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Can anybody give a logical explanation why the division would think it is a good idea to overlap the Summer bait hunts and the Spring dog hunts? The houndsman have had two months to get it done. What a joke!
 
Bigstiffy said:
Can anybody give a logical explanation why the division would think it is a good idea to overlap the Summer bait hunts and the Spring dog hunts? The houndsman have had two months to get it done. What a joke!
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Even better question. Why allow baiting to begin with? Nothing like showing your kids what hunting is about over a barrel of old donuts FFS.
 
I agree with SS. Baiting for anything needs to go. Get out on foot and get after it!!!

I have family in TX. Most of the hunt. The type of baiting/hunting they, and most do down there, shouldn't be considered fair chase hunting IMO.
 
You can be a 400 lb slob hunter and shoot them over bait fairly easily, but that same guy is not going to follow a pack of hounds 2-10 miles across Utah's mountains. Not to mention there's a lot of work with training and owning hounds. Not much effort to score some free stale donuts and bruised apples and dump them off some skid road on national forest.
 
Bigstiffy said:
California is looking for a new Governor, I think you would give Jenner a run for shims money with your agenda.
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Cool story bro. That’s cool you made a new username just to cry about a few dogs running around.

quick question, if you get hungry sitting on the bait do you go over and eat old donuts?
 
Bwht4x4 said:
You can be a 400 lb slob hunter and shoot them over bait fairly easily, but that same guy is not going to follow a pack of hounds 2-10 miles across Utah's mountains. Not to mention there's a lot of work with training and owning hounds. Not much effort to score some free stale donuts and bruised apples and dump them off some skid road on national forest.
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That's funny the recent guys I saw running dogs are just as you described 400 lb slobs, sitting in their side by sides watching their dogs on a screen waiting for them to tree. In fact the hunter was back at camp waiting for them to radio him if they treed one. Haha

Meanwhile the bait guys have 90 lb packs on dropping into the bottom of the canyons. Don't give me that BS that it's tough to follow your dogs around. Houndsman just whine the loudest and the DWR crumples to their demands. My original question was why overlap the seasons? So the houndsman can strike a bear off your bait? Or is 2 months prior not enough time?
 
Slightlysober said:
Cool story bro. That’s cool you made a new username just to cry about a few dogs running around.

quick question, if you get hungry sitting on the bait do you go over and eat old donuts?
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No, but it doesn't look like you've missed many meals. Do you take your head out of the feed bag just long enough to pound a few more beers?
 
You might be right that the overlap could be so hounds can get a strike off the bait. That is the only logical explanation I can think of.
 
Bigstiffy said:
No, but it doesn't look like you've missed many meals. Do you take your head out of the feed bag just long enough to pound a few more beers?
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I’ve never missed a meal. If you have Im sorry, everyone goes through tough times at some point.

Just admit it, you’ve ate the bait!
 
Slightlysober said:
I’ve never missed a meal. If you have Im sorry, everyone goes through tough times at some point.

Just admit it, you’ve ate the bait!
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Sober I've known guys like you, you are an attention whore. Sad you have to get your attention being an ass on this site.
 
I'm against baiting deer but don't have a problem with it for bears, though I've never tried it.

I've run hounds and have had lazy days and hard days, just like other types of hunting.

If there is a consensus that bears are hard on ungulate herds, then I'm okay with being a little more liberal with the seasons though keeping a few "trophy" areas would be nice as it seems the older class of bears are being killed off places like San Juan and La Sal.
 
Grizz with your experience running dogs what would you think the reasoning behind the overlap of the seasons? I don't have a problem with running dogs, in fact most of the houndsman have been good dudes. Even they say it's stupid they overlap it and cause contention between the two hunts.
 
Slightlysober said:
Big talk from a guy worried about Lassie ruining his canned bear hunt. ?
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It's ok buddy little man syndrome is real. It's tough when you have to scoot your seat back to fit between the steering wheel, but then how do you reach the gas pedal???? It's all making sense why you are such a miserable krumugin.
 
Bigstiffy said:
It's ok buddy little man syndrome is real. It's tough when you have to scoot your seat back to fit between the steering wheel, but then how do you reach the gas pedal???? It's all making sense why you are such a miserable krumugin.
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Is that the stale donut talking? I don’t even know you anymore. We like you more under your other username.
 
If I remember correctly, The rule used to be that a Summer season tag holder could start baiting two weeks before their hunt started. During this two weeks the Hound hunters were still going. A few years ago they compromised with both groups and allowed the Bait guys to start hunting and baiting the same day and there was only a one week overlap. Pretty good compromise, but you will still have conflicts. That's why when we get a Summer tag we only start baiting the last day of the hound hunt. This eliminated any chance of a hound running a bear off your bait.

Baiting bears on your own is by far the funnest hunt That I have ever done. I would take a summer bear tag every year over any OIL tag the state has to offer.

People who think baiting is easy and all you need to do is go throw a few donuts on the ground and you will have bears all over don't know what they are talking about. It is hard work. I spend more time and effort setting up and maintaining a bait site than I do on other hunts.

And @Bwht4x4, I've killed a bear over dogs as well. It was a great hunt and the dogs are amazing. But just because you can follow a pack of barking dogs to a tree doesn't make one a great hunter. It makes you a guy that can hike to sound or a GPS locator. The dogs are the hunters.
 
Bigstiffy said:
Grizz with your experience running dogs what would you think the reasoning behind the overlap of the seasons? I don't have a problem with running dogs, in fact most of the houndsman have been good dudes. Even they say it's stupid they overlap it and cause contention between the two hunts.
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I have no idea, but I also think you're giving too much credit to DWR by assuming there is a reason for what they do. I don't think they're good enough at their jobs to warrant that.

Utah hunting has become a CF for all but a few elite tags and DWR shoulders much of that blame for participating or allowing it to happen.
 
Last I read we have a rapidly expanding bear population, and a real tough time keeping fawns, and the DWR believes the 2 are related.

Isn't the point of predator hunting to keep predators in check? I realize there are trophies, but the goal is to kill bears, cats, dogs off so we keep fawns/calves.

With that in mind, who cares if it's via dog or bait, as long as the result is lowered numbers. Am I missing something more sinister?
 
This is No F'N Different than Dude Saying Go ahead & Ban Black Guns!

Other Than:

We've Got ss Saying Ban Hound Doggers/Baiters!

Like They Don't Bait up North!

GEEZUS!

REMEMBER One F'N Thing:

The Day You Give any of it up,is The Day You'll Lose a Whole Bunch of Hunting Rights Shortly after Doing So!

Most are Pissing & Moaning about Baiting Bears and Are Probably CHUMMING Deer as they Please!
 
grizzly said:
I have no idea, but I also think you're giving too much credit to DWR by assuming there is a reason for what they do. I don't think they're good enough at their jobs to warrant that.

Utah hunting has become a CF for all but a few elite tags and DWR shoulders much of that blame for participating or allowing it to happen.
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I think you are right Grizz. Let the DWR manage mosquitos, they would have them gone in a year or two.
 
hossblur said:
Last I read we have a rapidly expanding bear population, and a real tough time keeping fawns, and the DWR believes the 2 are related.

Isn't the point of predator hunting to keep predators in check? I realize there are trophies, but the goal is to kill bears, cats, dogs off so we keep fawns/calves.

With that in mind, who cares if it's via dog or bait, as long as the result is lowered numbers. Am I missing something more sinister?
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That can be accomplished without overlapping the two seasons, don't you think Hoss? Thus making it a better experience for both hunts.
 
X7ahunter said:
You ever been on a dog race? Obviously not with that type of thinking....
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I have ran a bear with dogs. We sat and waited for the dogs to do their thing, then walked up to the bear in the tree. I don't care to do it again, but I know guys enjoy it. That's not my point, my point is there is no reason to overlap the two seasons.
 
Bigstiffy said:
I have ran a bear with dogs. We sat and waited for the dogs to do their thing, then walked up to the bear in the tree. I don't care to do it again, but I know guys enjoy it. That's not my point, my point is there is no reason to overlap the two seasons.
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Then your going to lose a week of the bait season. Be careful what you wish for.
The reason is time. You only have so many weeks in the spring and early summer. Either you overlap a bit or you get shortened seasons.

It really isn't a big deal. If your so wound up about it just don't bait until the last day of the dog hunt. Bam! your problem is solved. And, the rest of the people that want to bait for that week have the opportunity to do so if they choose.
 
Or give the dog guys April 3rd-May 21st. Give the bait guys May 22nd-June 28th. Bam! Problem solved.
 
Bigstiffy said:
Or give the dog guys April 3rd-May 21st. Give the bait guys May 22nd-June 28th. Bam! Problem solved.
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Bam! Get rid of baiting. People are out camping and hiking during those times and you’re getting the bears used to people food. ?‍♂️

People are so lazy these days!
 
Slightlysober said:
Bam! Get rid of baiting. People are out camping and hiking during those times and you’re getting the bears used to people food. ?‍♂️

People are so lazy these
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Good morning SS was hoping you waddled your drunk, sawed off ass out into moose bog last night. No such luck?
 
Pursuit hounders are the worst enemy deer hunters have, but we sure need them to take the animals. We also need the baiters to rid ourselves of a lot of bear. I thought it was very interesting when, Wildlife Member, Wade Heaton tried to get some conversation going about the Beaver deer herd going down hill at the time bear population of bear increased on that mountain. If you really want to know how many bear on the mountain ask the baiters, not the DWR.
 
Bigstiffy said:
Good morning SS was hoping you waddled your drunk, sawed off ass out into moose bog last night. No such luck?
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You must be up early picking up two day old donuts and looking in dumpsters for bait?

Maybe you’re mad about hounds because you bait with dog food and they keep coming in to get some kibble? Hahaha

I can imagine the story after killing a bear on bait: There I was sitting in my full camo, bear came in and when he started to hit the powder donuts he was mine! Bam! I’m a bad ass hunter! Oh chit! I put a hole in my bait barrel! See guys hunting bears over bait is so hard!!
 
Slightlysober said:
You must be up early picking up two day old donuts and looking in dumpsters for bait?

Maybe you’re mad about hounds because you bait with dog food and they keep coming in to get some kibble? Hahaha

I can imagine the story after killing a bear on bait: There I was sitting in my full camo, bear came in and when he started to hit the powder donuts he was mine! Bam! I’m a bad ass hunter! Oh chit! I put a hole in my bait barrel! See guys hunting bears over bait is so hard!!
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Does Santa know you escaped the workshop? Go back to tinkering toys....
 
cannonball said:
Pursuit hounders are the worst enemy deer hunters have, but we sure need them to take the animals. We also need the baiters to rid ourselves of a lot of bear. I thought it was very interesting when, Wildlife Member, Wade Heaton tried to get some conversation going about the Beaver deer herd going down hill at the time bear population of bear increased on that mountain. If you really want to know how many bear on the mountain ask the baiters, not the DWR.
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Not true. According to a recent study the average bear baiter can’t count past five and is married to his sister. So yeah....
 
X7ahunter said:
And we list a bear hunting with hounds, lion hunting and all trapping. Be careful what you wish for....

PS. Lots of Utards came out every year to chase bears. Would dump into our races a lot too...
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Totally agree with you. I'm not wanting to get rid of anything like SS thinks is a good idea. We are already headed towards being the next CA here in Utah. I just think the overlap of the two hunts is ridiculous and doesn't need to happen.
 
Slightlysober said:
Even better question. Why allow baiting to begin with? Nothing like showing your kids what hunting is about over a barrel of old donuts FFS.
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as opposed to chasing a bear up a tree with hounds and sitting around the tree for an hour eating lunch before you decide to shoot it?

No thanks, I'll hunt bears spot and stalk or even bait them before I will shoot one out of a tree using dogs. That's real sporting. You might get a good run in but there is nothing sporting about shooting a bear out of a tree. At least on bait they can grab a donut and run.

Go sober up dumbazz!
 
deadibob said:
as opposed to chasing a bear up a tree with hounds and sitting around the tree for an hour eating lunch before you decide to shoot it?

No thanks, I'll hunt bears spot and stalk or even bait them before I will shoot one out of a tree using dogs. That's real sporting. You might get a good run in but there is nothing sporting about shooting a bear out of a tree. At least on bait they can grab a donut and run.

Go sober up dumbazz!
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You’re assuming I’m not opposed to hound hunting. Sober up!
 
Bigstiffy said:
Totally agree with you. I'm not wanting to get rid of anything like SS thinks is a good idea. We are already headed towards being the next CA here in Utah. I just think the overlap of the two hunts is ridiculous and doesn't need to happen.
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You're right Utah becoming more like California every year! I'm sure happy I moved away. Quit crying and go hunt as much as you can.
 
I am baiting this summer bait hunt and have had no problems with hound hunters.
If guys are running bears off of your bait site's turn them in, it is illegal.
 
I see the pros and cons but I think more guys would rather bait when they get these bear tags because they don’t want to pay these houndsman 5k to run a bear up a tree. I could buy a Sonora deer tag for the price these houndsman want to charge for a day of bear hunting.
 
hossblur said:
Last I read we have a rapidly expanding bear population, and a real tough time keeping fawns, and the DWR believes the 2 are related.

Isn't the point of predator hunting to keep predators in check? I realize there are trophies, but the goal is to kill bears, cats, dogs off so we keep fawns/calves.

With that in mind, who cares if it's via dog or bait, as long as the result is lowered numbers. Am I missing something more sinister?
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Spot on!!!
 
TheNewGuyInTown said:
I see the pros and cons but I think more guys would rather bait when they get these bear tags because they don’t want to pay these houndsman 5k to run a bear up a tree. I could buy a Sonora deer tag for the price these houndsman want to charge for a day of bear hunting.
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I can’t believe what they charge to chase lions now a days
 
It’s a sad state of affairs when people value certain wildlife over others. Bears coyotes and lions are the scapegoat for the lack of ungulates. Sad.
 
TheNewGuyInTown said:
I see the pros and cons but I think more guys would rather bait when they get these bear tags because they don’t want to pay these houndsman 5k to run a bear up a tree. I could buy a Sonora deer tag for the price these houndsman want to charge for a day of bear hunting.
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That's a fair point. It must work for them and I'm sure a lot goes into having good hounds.
 
notdonhunting said:
Yes apples and oranges, no doubt about it hunting in Alaska is totally different than hunting in Utah.
So mind your own business.
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You’re the one that brought up salmon.

Baiting bears is for flat brimmers and people who are too lazy to hunt. Go hunt high fence and over bait.
 
elkassassin said:
This Sshhiittt Kills Me!

A Bunch of You Thinking Hounders are Getting Rich!

You Have No Clue What a Hounder Does For You Before Your Hunt Even Starts!

HINT:

It Ain't All Profit!
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The one I know makes pretty good money, yea most businesses have expenses I think that goes without saying
 
elkassassin said:
This Sshhiittt Kills Me!

A Bunch of You Thinking Hounders are Getting Rich!

You Have No Clue What a Hounder Does For You Before Your Hunt Even Starts!

HINT:

It Ain't All Profit!
Click to expand...
Can’t be hard to drink beer and drive some smelly hounds down a road looking for tracks. I bet that’s slightlysober dream job!!!

fuel and dog chow don’t cost 5k.

I could pick up a hound from the local pound and let it lose on some tracks and charge people $350 a day regardless of whether that bear trees or not.
 
Yup!

And I'll Bet within a Week You'd Be Known as the Best Hounder in the West!




TheNewGuyInTown said:
Can’t be hard to drink beer and drive some smelly hounds down a road looking for tracks. I bet that’s slightlysober dream job!!!

fuel and dog chow don’t cost 5k.

I could pick up a hound from the local pound and let it lose on some tracks and charge people $350 a day regardless of whether that bear trees or not.
Click to expand...
 
TheNewGuyInTown said:
Can’t be hard to drink beer and drive some smelly hounds down a road looking for tracks. I bet that’s slightlysober dream job!!!

fuel and dog chow don’t cost 5k.

I could pick up a hound from the local pound and let it lose on some tracks and charge people $350 a day regardless of whether that bear trees or not.
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My hounds don’t waste their time chasing stinking bears. My hounds hunt sheds:

CE581B71-3ED3-4ADF-9466-E90525BCCFEF.jpeg
 
Do bear baiters wear camo? Or do they dress themselves up like a big ass donut?

how do you go to work on Monday and be like yeah I shot a bear and gave like 15 other bears diabetes?
 
Slightlysober said:
Do bear baiters wear camo? Or do they dress themselves up like a big ass donut?

how do you go to work on Monday and be like yeah I shot a bear and gave like 15 other bears diabetes?
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Speaking of diabetes, how are you doing with yours? Since they had to cut your legs off at the knees?
 
Man this post really is a sh!t show, so much misinformation and just out right ignorance from every side its ridiculous.

Anit-hound, Pro-Hound, Pro-baiters, Anit-baiters, even a few master-baiters (SS), this post has not been productive.
 
Slightlysober said:
It’s a sad state of affairs when people value certain wildlife over others. Bears coyotes and lions are the scapegoat for the lack of ungulates. Sad.
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They are blamed for it, because that's what they eat. Unfortunately, F&G and our other government officials have screwed up deer populations so badly, that we have to compete with the predators to find the last buck on the mountain.
 
JakeH said:
Man this post really is a sh!t show, so much misinformation and just out right ignorance from every side its ridiculous.

Anit-hound, Pro-Hound, Pro-baiters, Anit-baiters, even a few master-baiters (SS), this post has not been productive.
Click to expand...
Yet you keep reading along ?
 
I'll start this off with stating that I've had hounds my entire life, I've also been on over 140 bear kills over bait. Hound hunting is a hell of a lot more work than baiting and takes a lot more dedication. Baiting is about the laziest hunting possible, but it's effective. The only reason the hunts overlap is because they were originally all one hunt, then the bait guys whined and wanted their own season.... they got the month of June. Then the bait guys whined that they needed time to pre-bait, the houndsmen agreed to allowing them to bait during the hound season, with the reminder that they had previously complained about the overlap. There was agreement that if given the 2 week pre-bait they acknowledged they were on the mountain during the hound season and hounds would be present. Now the bait guys are whining again about the hounds. If you don't like having hounds on the mountain while you have bait out, don't pre bait. Or bait areas that don't have higher houndsmen density.
 
WhiskeyDog said:
I'll start this off with stating that I've had hounds my entire life, I've also been on over 140 bear kills over bait. Hound hunting is a hell of a lot more work than baiting and takes a lot more dedication. Baiting is about the laziest hunting possible, but it's effective. The only reason the hunts overlap is because they were originally all one hunt, then the bait guys whined and wanted their own season.... they got the month of June. Then the bait guys whined that they needed time to pre-bait, the houndsmen agreed to allowing them to bait during the hound season, with the reminder that they had previously complained about the overlap. There was agreement that if given the 2 week pre-bait they acknowledged they were on the mountain during the hound season and hounds would be present. Now the bait guys are whining again about the hounds. If you don't like having hounds on the mountain while you have bait out, don't pre bait. Or bait areas that don't have higher houndsmen density.
Click to expand...

For who?
 
elkantlers said:
For who?
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I don't have dogs, and don't really like hunting with dogs, and I can tell you that anyone that has dogs worth a lick have put a ton of work into those dogs, there is SOOOOOO much that goes into having good hounds, some of you guys act like you could take any ol dog up on the mountain and have it tree a bear.

I don't know that I would call baiting lazy, but it is more effective and gives you a better opportunity to be selective in my opinion, there is still a lot that goes into it, so I wouldn't call it lazy.

I have done both bait and hound hunts, both are a good time in there own ways.
 
When elkantlers said “for who,” I thought he was questioning who is putting in the work? The hunter who draws the lion tag or the outfitter/houndsman that he hires to guide him? I don’t have a dog in this fight (pun intended) but I’m not sure that the hunter who hires a houndsman puts in any more work than the DIY guy packing in bait to his site.

Personally, I’d just like to see us kill more bears —regardless how we take them.

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
When elkantlers said “for who,” I thought he was questioning who is putting in the work? The hunter who draws the lion tag or the outfitter/houndsman that he hires to guide him? I don’t have a dog in this fight (pun intended) but I’m not sure that the hunter who hires a houndsman puts in any more work than the DIY guy packing in bait to his site.

Personally, I’d just like to see us kill more bears —regardless how we take them.

Hawkeye
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Exactly....
Dogs take enormous amounts of time and energy for the owners. Houndsmen are passionate about what they do. I respect them for that.
The person that hires a houndsman do none of the heavy lifting. If you can hike and make a 10 yard shot you are going to get your bear.

Likewise, the DIY guy that sets up baits and keeps them going long enough for bears to find them are doing all the work themselves. Got to respect that too.
 
elkantlers said:
Exactly....
Dogs take enormous amounts of time and energy for the owners. Houndsmen are passionate about what they do. I respect them for that.
The person that hires a houndsman do none of the heavy lifting. If you can hike and make a 10 yard shot you are going to get your bear.

Likewise, the DIY guy that sets up baits and keeps them going long enough for bears to find them are doing all the work themselves. Got to respect that too.
Click to expand...
I can agree with this, I know quite a few houndsman and very few of them guide so I don't look at all houndsman as guides and didn't consider that is what you meant.
 
Anybody know about the houndsman that had a beat taken away this last week from the DWR? It was up Walsburg, and I guess they were either running bears off of other bait sights or had their own illegal bait sight to run bears off of. I am not sure which one it was, but heard about it from a friend that lives up there.

On another side note, I was camping with family and friends in Diamond Fork ( with half of Utah county), and saw many different camps of houndsman. One of the groups of 3 trucks, rigged with 7-8 dogs each, would drive the roads each morning and night. With all the campers up there, and all the traffic from ATV/UTV's, this didnt seem to be too effective. But maybe it was. I got out for a few short hikes, 5 and 7 miles and saw quite a few bear tracks and fresh sign. But these were off the road quite a ways.

I have had a few "beefs" with the houndsmans over the years. They have their way of hunting and put in a ton of work with the dogs. I have done my own and helped on bait sights for the last 4-5 years. All I care about is that we kill more bears. Its like archery Vs rifle guys. We need to work together, not against. Our deer, elk and moose need help and every dead bear is better for them. And no, I am not saying to kill them all. But I bet the population is at an all time high.
 
They need to fix the overlap. If I was running bait I wouldn't even start until the pursuit was over. Twice in the last week of the hunt while we were running a bear that we had rigged we watched hunters driving in to restock their bait. Who knows exactly where their bait was, but we could have been running bears off someone's bait. On the San Juan many bait hunters seem to go to the end of a road and then hike 100 yards and set up their bait. Obviously, houndsmen are going to drive right to the end of the road. I feel like the current seasons put hunter vs hunter, which is not good for hunting in general.

You about have to move the bait season back, because some years the bears just don't get moving until into May.
 
Slightlysober said:
Cool story bro. That’s cool you made a new username just to cry about a few dogs running around.

quick question, if you get hungry sitting on the bait do you go over and eat old donuts?
Click to expand...
No donuts for me but I don’t mind grabbing a handful of Alpo and popcorn and settle in for a Bear show!!
 

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