DWR's plans for upcoming hunt- Can You Say "BULLSHIT"

pumaguy · Jul 20, 2003

LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-03 AT 02:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-20-03 AT 02:37?PM (MST)

The DWR is thinking we need to kill more cats. Lets get real for a minute. They are talking about the lower deer numbers due to the drought, then plan on taking more deer through increased deer tags to help heards deal with the drought and then they want to kill more lions because of less deer. This is the information directly from the DWR's site:

Taking cougars to help struggling mule deer

The DWR will propose increasing the total number of cougars to be taken on 33 harvest objective units in Utah. Coupled with the number of cougars taken on 20 limited entry units, the increase will likely result in 470 to 500 cougars being taken by hunters during the 2003 2004 season. That's a 20 percent increase from the 418 taken last season.

"Mule deer, especially in eastern Utah, are struggling because of the drought and deteriorating range conditions," said Craig McLaughlin, mammals coordinator for the DWR. "Controlling the number of cougars that prey on them is one thing we can do to try and help the herds. We're also concerned about the impact cougars have on bighorn sheep, particularly small bands of sheep that have been transplanted into new areas."

The DWR is proposing that a total of 445 cougars be taken on the 33 harvest objective units. Last season's quota was 297 cougars. About 66 percent of the total quota is usually reached, so the 445 target should result in about 295 cougars being taken on the harvest objective units this season.

The DWR is also proposing that a total of 316 permits be offered for the state's 20 limited entry units. That's a decrease of 46 permits from the 362 permits offered last season. Sixty percent of the hunters who draw a limited entry permit are usually successful in taking a cougar, so a total of 190 cougars should be taken on these units.Meeting dates, times and locations are as follows:

Northeastern Region
July 28, 7 p.m.
Vernal City Office
447 E. Main St., Vernal
Central Region
July 29, 6:30 p.m.
Springville Junior High School
165 S. 700 E., Springville
Southern Region
July 30, 7 p.m.
Millard High School
200 W. Eagle Ave, Fillmore
Southeastern Region
Aug. 5, 6:30 p.m.
John Wesley Powell Museum
885 E. Main St., Green River
Northern Region
Aug. 6, 6 p.m.
Brigham City Community Center
24 N. 300 W., Brigham City

The RAC meetings are near and we need to be there in herds if the future of lion hunting is going to stand any chance. When are the DWR going to wake up and realize the deer problem is not solely lions.

Just thought I'd make everyone's day with such good news.

Kevin D · Jul 20, 2003

Thanks for keeping us up to speed pumaguy. Sounds like the SFW boys (except for Byron and 10r of course) have gotten ahold of Craig Mclaughlin's ear.......and I had such high hopes for the lad when he took over the job too. :-(

Instead of killing more lions, why doesn't the Division spend some energy trying to grow more deer to feed them?? Makes sense to me.

Mulehound · Jul 20, 2003

Lets just open the entire State like it used to be, then everyone can be happy. Hell I say lower the out of state permits to five Dollars apiece so we can attract extra hunters so we make sure we kill enough lions, Maybee even put a bounty on them just bring in their ears and collect a hundred bucks, I just don't see how it could fail. I say we hire houndsman to hang with fishon and other fellers who horn hunt in places no one knows even exist. so when they find all of those lion kills the offending cat could be killed immediately. Better yet hire proffessional hunters to run with them that way for sure the lion would be killed. I think some money from the states general fund should go to advertising for out of state outfitters until we have two for every five square miles, and put them on the state payroll.

I belive that hunters should have at least 96 hours to check in a cat that way undue pressure would be taken off of outfitters and we can be sure of those extra cats being harvested that might be killing to many ungulates, ( learned that word from the wolf reports)

I think killing more deer is a good idea, I haven't seen a poor one yet, no sense in using any of the available feed when we can save it for next year. if you think about it I hit it right on the head earlier this year. kill more lions = kill more deer= kill more elk= coyotes kill whats left= import wolves = kill coyotes=wolves kill all livestock = we can stay home have a beer, cook a steak on the grill.

On the serious side the entire stae needs to be limited entry , harvest objective, or open, this system they have in place is nothing but a smoke screen in the name of biology to kill as many lions as they want where they want ,

Lets just say it like it is they want to kill a lot of cats so lets open it up and killem. The herds are never going to rebound like they did in the late fifties when Willis in Price and Bob Hogget and the rest were dropping balls of bait laced with 10-80 from airplanes. Wait maybee that is sound biology, I need to talk to the biologist that has seen the starving deer on the Bookcliffs.

HoundDawg · Jul 25, 2003

DWR... oh hell, don't get me started.

Has their ever been a more imcompetent group assembled for any purpose? Hell, the ACLU could manage wildlife as good as these idiots.

I considered going to the meetings and getting involved and trying to get my voice heard... but I decided to hell with the DWR, the SFW, the NRA, the RMEF, all that stuff....

I don't have the time or patience anyway. I think it's time for hound guys to take a different approach. Instead of screaming and hollering while our cries fall on deaf ears... it's time to "talk softly and carry a big stick... or gun in this case"...

Forget the meetings. While they are meeting this next week raising the lion tags, I'm gonna go out and lower the deer and sheep numbers a bit. The more lions they kill the more deer and elk and sheep I kill. And if I run out of bullets, just let the dogs run them down in the deep snow this winter.

What better time to get you a nice bear bait with rotting deer carcasses than while they are all down at Springville high in a meeting talking about how the lions have wiped out the deer population. Hell, I ran the idea past my buddy down in Genola and he got so excited about it he shot 4 deer out of his orchard just to get warmed up.

PumaGuy, don't let the bastards get you down. Just go to the meeting down there and stand up and say, "Shhh... everyone be quiet. If you listen carefully you'll hear the sound of a bighorn sheep or a mule deer getting the air let out of his lungs with a .300 mag right now. Shhhh, listen closely." ;-)

-Dawg

Mulehound · Jul 25, 2003

I just returned from a little trip out to the Books, went from Seep ridge to Hay canyon. The sage has about five inchs of new growth, the service berrys, choke cherrys and weumps are all in bloom or loaded down with berrys. The browse all looks good also. It is almighty dry I won't argue that, but the deer look to be in great shape. I wonder what it is Craig is looking at . I even saw the tracks of one of those evil mountain lions along with some bear tracks. Those doggone slow elk looked to be fat and happy also.

Me thinks I'm going to join Dawgs RUA association (reduce the ungulates) and do my part to benefit the wildlife in the state. I don't have a 300 mag though just a 338 hope that doesn't preclude membership.

Mulehound.

PS I am offering dog training on bighorn sheep in the rattlesnake unit, all it will cost you is money to feed your dog and a rams head scoring at least 175 from your first successfull bighorn trophy hunt.

clauddallas · Jul 29, 2003

Way to many cats in this state for those of you who think otherwise you are blind and your dogs need a new nose.

HoundDawg · Jul 29, 2003

Hey Claud Dallas,

How's life in the joint? My dogs don't need a new nose but I damn sure do.

My schnoz looks like somebody screwed a damn grapefruit to my face. But I got it from my daddy and not alot I can do about genetics. I'm stuck with it... Fortunately, my dogs noses are just fine.

But here is a thought. Since you clearly don't know your ass from a turnip, why don't you just climb back upstairs into the general forum with all the others that don't know what the hell is going on?

Anybody that believes the mule deer problem is as simple as killing more lions is a simple minded fool.

-Dawg

Mulehound · Jul 29, 2003

How thankfull are we to sit before the pulpit of the chosen ones and listen and accept without question their revelations. Accepting all that is spewed forth, to guide us in our daily endeavors in the wilds of Utah. Without their divine guidance we should surely stray from the path of righteousness. Damn he who questions the chosen ones, he will surely be stoned to death. follow I say, follow do as you are told and all will be well.

Chapter five, verse seven, houndog Book of common sense states!
Question SFW and thou shall be smitten from the records, and cast into darkness.

By the way I hear Jim Jones is accepting applications to start a new township south of the border.

clauddallas · Jul 29, 2003

Please dawg I'm not near as dumb as all your followers in here you are not a hunting god nor will you ever be I have spent more time in the woods then your young pampered ass has even thought about. Ever since the Goverment took away our 10 strike the #s have gone way up and they will keep on going up

cb · Jul 29, 2003

Be careful Dawg. This Claud feller might shoot your sorry ass and bury you in the desert.

Everybody knows that the real Claude Dallas spells his name with an e on the end.

Everybody knows "Chris Singleton" when he hears him too.

Be careful Dawg. This guy is a badass.

Kevin D · Jul 29, 2003

Sorry Claude, but I used to think you were an outdoorsman extrodinaire, until they recaptured you coming out of a 7-11 in San Diego, California holding a bag of nachos and a slurpee. Now I realize you ain't nothing but a cop killing bum. I hope you're enjoying a nightly colostomy.

By the way Dawg, I'd be careful taking Claude's advise about getting your dogs a new nose, I sent my last bluetick to a plastic surgeon for a nose job and he came back looking like Micheal Jackson

Still, it did improve his looks, he was the best looking bluetick I ever owned!

bobcatbess · Jul 30, 2003

WELL Claud

IS IT GETTING TO YOU BEHIND THEM BARS???

I CAN PLAINLY SEE YOU ARE THINKING ONLY ABOUT HOW MUCH ***** IS OUT THERE!!!

THE VISIONS MUST BE GETTING PRETTY GOOD!!!

WE MIGHT HAVE TO TRY AND GET YOU OUT FOR A DAY,YA SEE MY EYES MUST BE GETTING BAD,PROBABLY NEED SOME OF THEM GLASSES THAT ENHANCE LION TRACKS,BUT WITH YOUR HELP AND EXPERTEASE I'M SURE FILLING AT LEAST 12 TAGS IN ONE DAY WON'T BE THAT HARD!!!

I'M SURE YOU'VE NEVER TREED NOTHING BUT MATURE TOM'S,SINCE YOU'VE BEEN IN THE MATURE AGE HAS CHANGED!!!

WHO KNOWS,MAYBE YOU COULD SHOW US A COUPLE THEM AVERAGE TOM'S,YOU KNOW,WHEN THEY CROSS THE FOUR LANE HIGHWAY THEIR TAIL IS AT ONE SIDE AND THEIR HEAD IS JUST CROSSING THE OTHER SIDE!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING HOW LONG IT HAS BEEN SINCE SOME OF THEM HAS LEFT THEIR JAIL CELL!!!

HoundDawg · Jul 30, 2003

Actually, I'm kind of with Kevin. I'm not too worried about 'ol Clod Dallas, the self proclaimed desert rat that ended up getting collared outside a 7-11 with a jar of Vaseline and 2 porno magazines.

It's just that I find the same old argument tiring and boring. It's getting almost humorous to listen to these guys, "Too many cats in this state, anyone that don't know that ain't been outside."

You know, there are probably some areas in Utah that do have too many cats. There is probably some truth to it, but they got nothing else so they always come back to it. It's kind of like the kid on the playground and all he can come up with is "Know you are but what am I? Know you are but what am I?"

Clod, when the lions are all dead and you still can't shoot a deer while road hunting up Daniels Canyon, which predator will you blame then? "Damn badgers are killing all the mule deer."

Hell, I at least give some credit to those guys awhile back who were complaining about the toll that eagles were taking on the deer population. Creativity has to count for something.

Oh Clod, one more thing... know you are but what am I?

-Dawg

clauddallas · Jul 30, 2003

Yes we all know (lions, predators) are not the only thing affecting deer #s, but for you a self proclaimed lion hunting expert but to sit there and say that there are not to many cats in this state is just plane stupid. you know when we were able to use 10 strike and other poisons predator #s were way down compared to what they are today and game birds were plenty, but now there is nothing to kill a few eagles. hawks, owls which I might add has killed our game bird and rabbit populations, as far as yotes bobcats and lions go until I personally notice #s on the decline I say increase that tags and keep on killing em. My question to you dawg is it the competition you hate or the fact that you have now control over what the DWR does

pumaguy · Jul 30, 2003

Claud, I will agree that when we were poisoning deer numbers were better, but the fact is you are not realizing the facts. Poison was killing the coyotes and to some extent the bears, but if you are half the expert you proclaim yourself to be, you would know poison is not used with great success on lions. Lions kill what they eat and eat what THEY kill making it necessary to poison the actual animal a lion has killed and do so in a timely enough fashion to have the lion come back and ingest the poisoned meat. The problem with Utah's deer is not lions; case in point- the Monroe Mountains, Utah has purposely killed every lion on that mountain they can find and the deer have not come back. I have been hunting lions religously for twenty years now and we do not have any more lions than we had in the 80's. I know you will say we do, but I challenge you to back that statement up with fact. Bottom line is deer will never come back like they were in the "old days" but with the decrease of winter ground, the drought, lots more coyotes, more roads and four wheeler trails to hunt on, better equipment (in line muzzleloaders, better bows etc) we have to look at the entire picture and not say kill all lions and think that is the answer. NUFF SAID!

pumaguy · Jul 30, 2003

One other thing Claud, why are you afraid to post your real name under your user profile?

Mulehound · Jul 30, 2003

Claud you need to broaden your horizons, do a little research on predator control in Utah. It is available, when you do you will find out that when they were poisioning it hit the predators hard with the exception of the mountain lion. When they were poisioning the Bookcliffs and the areas in Eastern Utah, Bob Hoggat (ADC) was extensively snaring, trapping and killing lions with hounds. On the Henry Mountains it was the poisioning that allowed the deer to rebound.

On the mountain last year during the deer and elk hunts we saw and heard packs of coyotes take down deer, maybee you should learn how to kill a few of them. I'm sure your whine is a good pup imitation.

Mulehound.

Question everything!

antlergirl · Jul 30, 2003

Watch them. They did the same thing in Arizona. Blamed the price of gas on too many lions. Now the defenders of wildlife are suing the department since there is no biological reason for it and are trying to stop all hound hunting of lions. It should be on the ballot in 2004 and with so many here now from the great state of Kalifornia, it would probably pass easily.

HoundDawg · Jul 31, 2003

Clod,

In the midst of the BS you were spewing I noticed through the glaze over my eyes as I attempted to stay focused on what you were writing... that you asked me a question.

"Is it the competition I hate or the fact that I have no control over what the DWR does?"

Competition from what? Other lion hunters? Not a problem for me. I have private ground locked up and about the time the Diamond Fork and Lake Fork hunters are headed home cuz the canyon is full and there weren't any tracks anyway... I'm just getting out of bed to head up to the gate. Since I'm the only hound guy that knows the combination, I don't see alot of competition. Am I lucky? You're damn rights I am. And I kiss the owners butt every chance I get for letting me in his place.

Second part... I have never had any control over what the DWR does, never expected to. They are just like the IRS, DVM or any other government agency. A few good people surrounded by hoards of incompetent bums that could never survive anywhere else. I don't have any say with what the IRS charges me, why would I have any say with the DWR? Just another government agency, where you are a number and they are concerned with getting your money and nothing else.

Ya, there are some good people in the DWR but by and large if you think anyone there really cares about wildlife and cares about anything more than keeping their job and drawing that paycheck, you are a fool my friend.

They aren't trying to manage wildlife and save the deer herd. They are trying to please their superior above them so they will have a job come Christmas. Just like everybody else out there.

I've never expected much from a group with a collective IQ of a grapefruit.

But I've never been disgruntled with them to the point of dry gulching a couple of them like you did Clod. I guess the old west had backshooters and so do we.

Happy trails and best of luck to your deer herd. Maybe y'all should have thought about them when you were building homes all over the foothills above Draper, Alpine, Bountiful, etc...

Oh wait, I live in the foothills. ;-) But then again, deer are just lion food to me.

-Dawg