Final Muzzleloader Scope Committee Recommendation

[Ballistic]

OMG, I'm done addressing this.....seriously ?‍

I’m not done addressing this Slam and not planning on throwing in the towel any time soon.
You are wrong with your unproven data on muzzleloaders tech vs archery and rifles. Keep using your Facebook posts and Cal Ranch “what’s on the shelves now” agenda

The muzzleloader is on the chopping block based off your bipolar feelings from day to day.
“It’s not about saving animals right” ?

“But if we don’t do something about the emerging technologies already out there and more to come -muzzy hunts will equal or surpass the success the rifle success rates”

What are you doing for the tech that’s already out there on rifles and archery ?

And don’t use the elimination of electronics because that affected everything.

Across the board on all 3 and we will talk.

And you’re right -I don’t know everything that’s being addressed at your meetings.

I do however know your mission statement -A statement that represents the rifle and archery industry.
Are you telling me that mission statement is false ?

I’m not done with you Slam.

 

[hossblur]

Let's Look At All Weapon Types!

A CHIP Shot At 1,090 Yards!

There's Long Rangers Shooting Animals Twice That Far!

Let's do. Right after the muzzy scopes.

 

[hossblur]

And you’re right -I don’t know everything that’s being addressed at your meetings.

"And you’re right -I don’t know everything that’s being addressed at your meetings"



Then for sure, keep complaining based on no actual knowledge ?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Uuuuuuuum…………

2020

Muzzy 14,772 permits with 30.1% success
Rifle 30,602 permits with 28.6% success

Let’s do some math
Muzzies killed 4446 deer
Rifles killed 8752 deer

Muzzies killed more ?

“

More math.
68,503 harvests in 1988

If we used 97,000 hunters in 2020 that would be a 70% success rate.

For 2023 there are 64,725 general deer permits.
Will harvest success % be higher this year -if not for the harsh winter -likely ?

You and I can use the numbers to our liking all day and for decades.

Let’s do some math. If rifle had the same tag tag quota as muzzleloader that year who would be out on top?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So you’re saying that archery and rifles haven’t advanced and should be left alone ? Just the muzzleloader ?

Does archery need addressed over the other weapon’s as of right now. No the harvest has not changed drastically like the other weapons.
If archery success was in the 30% like the other weapons I would say yes but as of right now it’s still low and it shows.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Let’s do some math. If rifle had the same tag tag quota as muzzleloader that year who would be out on top?

I think that may not hold. IMO people who hunt MZ and Archery may be a little more serious about hunting (percentage wise) than rifle hunters. A lot of people rifle hunt as a family, group camping trip and success is second concern. We are looking at things through our eyes here on MM. There is a bigger picture.

 

[slamdunk]

@Ballistic

I will give you one more tid bit of information whether you absorb it or not.

The Division and Board are not..... NOT satisfied with this particular weapon or where it is going.

I can assure you they are not willing to stay on or continue this path, but they will be happy moving backwards to a landing place, wherever that may be.
?

 

[hossblur]

I think that may not hold. IMO people who hunt MZ and Archery may be a little more serious about hunting (percentage wise) than rifle hunters. A lot of people rifle hunt as a family, group camping trip and success is second concern. We are looking at things through our eyes here on MM. There is a bigger picture.

Are they separating out dedicated?

Because a lot of guys won't squeeze the trigger until rifle(myself) unless it's a special buck. If dedicated are with them, that might actually lower data artificially

 

[Elkslayer2015]

@Ballistic

I will give you one more tid bit of information whether you absorb it or not.

The Division and Board are not..... NOT satisfied where this particular current weapon and or where it is going.

I can assure you they are not willing to stay on or continue this path, but they will be happy moving backwards to a landing place, wherever that may be.
?

Ballistic
Doesn’t want his technology taken away he knows how it helps him. The more he pushes the more it makes it easier for the board to decide.
I love when this stuff happens because it makes it very clear what path we don’t want to go down.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Are they separating out dedicated?

Because a lot of guys won't squeeze the trigger until rifle(myself) unless it's a special buck. If dedicated are with them, that might actually lower data artificially

Hoss
Dedicated hunter is separate.

 

[hossblur]

Same things we heard about bait, cams, FLIR.

It's like none of us know anything, despite us seeing it continuously.

So they pull the "look over there" line.

Not realizing others actually are simultaneously

 

[Ballistic]

Ballistic
Doesn’t want his technology taken away he knows how it helps him. The more he pushes the more it makes it easier for the board to decide.
I love when this stuff happens because it makes it very clear what path we don’t want to go down.

Are you trying to tell me that since that have been over 1000 posts on 4 separate threads related to the muzzy getting the chopping block -that this is making it easier for the board to decide ?

Is divide and conquer your reasoning.

Please explain

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Are you trying to tell me that since that have been over 1000 posts on 4 separate threads related to the muzzy getting the chopping block -that this is making it easier for the board to decide ?

Is divide and conquer your reasoning.

Please explain

Hahaha I guess will see come board meeting.
If you have any more to say I would suggest you attend all Rac meetings and the board meetings I’ll be watching.

I don’t need to attend because the difference between me and you is I know what path where headed and it’s not good.

 

[Ballistic]

@Ballistic

I will give you one more tid bit of information whether you absorb it or not.

The Division and Board are not..... NOT satisfied where this particular current weapon and or where it is going.

I can assure you they are not willing to stay on or continue this path, but they will be happy moving backwards to a landing place, wherever that may be.
?

Oh Slammy
They have tasked you (tech committee) as the scapegoat !
It’s not really the tech committees fault ?

As far as absorbing information

I have asked for an answer on wether or not your committee supports the rifle and archery industry with no answer yet on your end ?

I can see where this is going. I have my views and you have yours. If this was an easy sale on your end - why all the posts against it ?

It’s not just ballistic vs the world and/or Slammy-LOL !

 

[Ballistic]

Hahaha I guess will see come board meeting.
If you have any more to say I would suggest you attend all Rac meetings and the board meetings I’ll be watching.

I don’t need to attend because the difference between me and you is I know what path where headed and it’s not good.

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

Nope it’s fact. Just wait let’s see what happens.
Hahaha

 

[slamdunk]

Oh Slammy
They have tasked you (tech committee) as the scapegoat !
It’s not really the tech committees fault ?

As far as absorbing information

I have asked for an answer on wether or not your committee supports the rifle and archery industry with no answer yet on your end ?

I can see where this is going. I have my views and you have yours. If this was an easy sale on your end - why all the posts against it ?

It’s not just ballistic vs the world and/or Slammy-LOL !

No, these are two more areas where you are wrong.

The committee is not a scapegoat, the two entities above us already want change.
What the committees job is is to do the ground work, lay out the bricks and mix the cement, then they come along and put it together.
Every decision ultimately lies on them, not the committees.

And.....I have answered your question about archery and rifles multiple times but you are resilient to absorb it.

 

[slamdunk]

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

You taking what he stated as a personal threat completely explains why you struggle with comprehension.......

 

[slamdunk]

@Ballistic

I will also say that if you or BnD think the outcome would be any different just because your ideals or his would change the vote, you're completely wrong, I can assure you 100%.

I don't care if the committee was made up of 12 long range muzzleloader hunters, this state is not moving forward with the type of technology this weapon is receiving.
The decision of change was made long before a committee was ever assembled.

 

[Ballistic]

You taking what he stated as a personal threat completely explains why you struggle with comprehension.

Hahaha I guess will see come board meeting.
If you have any more to say I would suggest you attend all Rac meetings and the board meetings I’ll be watching.

I don’t need to attend because the difference between me and you is I know what path where headed and it’s not good.

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

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Elkslayer2015​

Active Member​

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• #416

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

“Nope it’s fact. Just wait let’s see what happens.
Hahaha” from elk slayer 2015

Let’s talk about this Slammy boy.

A weasel (elk slayer 2015) wants to see who I am but doesn’t want to show up because of our differences - and if our paths cross it won’t be good.

When asked if it’s a threat -the answer is it’s a fact.


I think your still having a hard time with the fact that the WB is using you as the scapegoat ???

In fact it’s so true that you have to name Bux N Dux with me to bawl your way to justify a point.

You’re a real professional with that post you made about Bux N Dux and his 3 followers.
A real gem you aren’t.

Btw
If you haven’t noticed
I don’t need any help with my arguments with you or anyone else. I don’t have to call for help.

Please - look in the mirror before you call someone out on comprehension.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Is that a threat ?
What a lame arse cowardly remark that was !
LMAO

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Elkslayer2015​

Active Member​

• Today at 10:47 AM
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• Add bookmark
• #416

“Nope it’s fact. Just wait let’s see what happens.
Hahaha” from elk slayer 2015

Let’s talk about this Slammy boy.

A weasel (elk slayer 2015) wants to see who I am but doesn’t want to show up because of our differences - and if our paths cross it won’t be good.

When asked if it’s a threat -the answer is it’s a fact.


I think your still having a hard time with the fact that the WB is using you as the scapegoat ???

In fact it’s so true that you have to name Bux N Dux with me to bawl your way to justify a point.

You’re a real professional with that post you made about Bux N Dux and his 3 followers.
A real gem you aren’t.

Btw
If you haven’t noticed
I don’t need any help with my arguments with you or anyone else. I don’t have to call for help.

Please - look in the mirror before you call someone out on comprehension.

Never once threatened you! You took it the wrong way and I already know who you are I'm not worried.
You where the same way in high school never wrong.

 

[MrShane]

@Ballistic

I will also say that if you or BnD think the outcome would be any different just because your ideals or his would change the vote, you're completely wrong, I can assure you 100%.

I don't care if the committee was made up of 12 long range muzzleloader hunters, this state is not moving forward with the type of technology this weapon is receiving.
The decision of change was made long before a committee was ever assembled.

Slam,
Honest question here, if State already decided to change then why even form the committee?
2nd question, who do we contact to at least let them know of our preferences of change?
I am the one that wants to copy and paste Idaho’s muzzy regs in.
Then I will have a TC Encore for sale cheap.

 

[elkassassin]

So?

Does That Make You Simple?

You really make things difficult to still get the same decision from the Big Game Board.

 

[slamdunk]

Slam,
Honest question here, if State already decided to change then why even form the committee?
2nd question, who do we contact to at least let them know of our preferences of change?
I am the one that wants to copy and paste Idaho’s muzzy regs in.
Then I will have a TC Encore for sale cheap.

Oh man I am sorry for the confusion, I didn't clarify my statement very clearly.

What I meant was the WB already made a decision to tackle current and Emerging Technology before it got any further in the hunting world.
They didn't "know" what their end results would be, so that is where a committee comes in.
A committee is a diverse group made up from various interests, entities and even GP.
Our job is to do the ground work and provide the higher groups with information and ultimately proposals.

Attending the RAC's is where you voice.

We talked about every states regs, including idaho's.
These outside sources are who help us do the homework to come up with ideas.

 

[Ballistic]

No, these are two more areas where you are wrong.

The committee is not a scapegoat, the two entities above us already want change.
What the committees job is is to do the ground work, lay out the bricks and mix the cement, then they come along and put it together.
Every decision ultimately lies on them, not the committees.

And.....I have answered your question about archery and rifles multiple times but you are resilient to absorb it.

Ok
So what are your bricks ?

#1 1100 yard chip shots w muzzies
#2 700 yard antelope
#3 simple guy that easily shoots 500 yards
#4 it’s on the shelves at cal ranch.
#5 muzzies tech has advanced at a much higher rate than other weapons.
#6 muzzies are like single shot rifles.
And many more……..

Then theirs the cement

“-It’s not about saving animals “


Your agenda is simply the scapegoat for the WB —but you can’t see it yet.

And no - you have not answered my question multiple times on rifles and archery - not even once.

 

[lif]

Hey PUNK?

Can You Re-Fresh Us Of How Many Committee Members There Are?

Here's What Shoulda Been Done:

There Shoulda Been A Vote!

Let's Say 65% of All Archery Hunters,65% Of All SmokePolers & 65% Of All LongRangers Shoulda Been Included In The Vote!

You Can Only Vote Once!

O Leave All Weaponry As Is/Un-Limited TECH/GADGETRY!
BAD IDEA!

O Restrict All Weaponry With An Equal TAKE From All 3 Weapon
Types!
BETTER IDEA!

O Restrict A Small Group From Making Big Decisions for
99.9999% Of Other Hunters!
OH I'M IN BIG TROUBLE NOW!

Do “YOU” think they should restrict long range rifles?

 

[notdonhunting]

So?

Does That Make You Simple?

Simple-minded ?

 

[elkassassin]

If We Are Restricting Any Type Of Weaponry We Should Make Equal Restrictions On All 3 Weapon Types!

I Do!

But What I Say Doesn't Mean JACK!

Do “YOU” think they should restrict long range rifles?

 

[lif]

If We Are Restricting Any Type Of Weaponry We Should Make Equal Restrictions On All 3 Weapon Types!

I Do!

But What I Say Doesn't Mean JACK!

If muzzys weren’t being discussed, and the issue was limiting scope magnification on rifles, would you be calling to restrict muzzy scopes? ????

 

[elkassassin]

Have you Not Seen Me Make At Least 20+ Posts Saying We Are All Guilty Of TECHNOLOGY & GADGETRY With All 3 Weapon Types?

Everyone Of Us Have GADGETRY Of Some Sort Or Another!

I'm Saying For The Umpteenth Time:

Go Ahead & Take!

But Take Equally From All 3 Weapon Types!

!

If muzzys weren’t being discussed, and the issue was limiting scope magnification on rifles, would you be calling to restrict muzzy scopes? ????

 

[DownWind]

Reading a lot of people on here talking about how they want lower success rates is some BS I didn’t think I’d ever find on this site! A scope is not the problem with our herd numbers… this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. We all know the real problem. The division should only hand out as many tags as the herds can support with the expectation they all get filled (obviously they won’t). I couldn’t give 2 craps about how a guy hunts or what he uses. You got a tag…? sweet, go fill it! You don’t like scopes on muzzleloaders…? cool, don’t use one. You want to use a scope, cool… do you. I’m headed out tomorrow with my no scope 50 cal TC and leaving the CVA Paramount at home not because I have to but because I can worry about me and hunt how I want. Feels like there’s fights worth having but this whole thing is a distraction. Good luck everyone with your smokepoles the coming days, I hope you all fill!

 

[slamdunk]

Ok
So what are your bricks ?

#1 1100 yard chip shots w muzzies
#2 700 yard antelope
#3 simple guy that easily shoots 500 yards
#4 it’s on the shelves at cal ranch.
#5 muzzies tech has advanced at a much higher rate than other weapons.
#6 muzzies are like single shot rifles.
And many more……..

Then theirs the cement

“-It’s not about saving animals “


Your agenda is simply the scapegoat for the WB —but you can’t see it yet.

And no - you have not answered my question multiple times on rifles and archery - not even once.

I've answered your question numerous times, do not question it again.....scroll back and F'n listen!

 

[hossblur]

Reading a lot of people on here talking about how they want lower success rates is some BS I didn’t think I’d ever find on this site! A scope is not the problem with our herd numbers… this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. We all know the real problem. The division should only hand out as many tags as the herds can support with the expectation they all get filled (obviously they won’t). I couldn’t give 2 craps about how a guy hunts or what he uses. You got a tag…? sweet, go fill it! You don’t like scopes on muzzleloaders…? cool, don’t use one. You want to use a scope, cool… do you. I’m headed out tomorrow with my no scope 50 cal TC and leaving the CVA Paramount at home not because I have to but because I can worry about me and hunt how I want. Feels like there’s fights worth having but this whole thing is a distraction. Good luck everyone with your smokepoles the coming days, I hope you all fill!

I didn't see a video of you ripping up your tag.

I say so because simply look at the numbers, and you can see how big of tag cuts you want.

Nothing stopping individuals who believe that, from doing it without government help

 

[quest]

What’s this guilt thing? I have no guilt whatsoever over what I was allowed to use while hunting that’s crazy ?

 

[elkantlers]

A committee is a diverse group made up from various interests, entities and even GP.

The problem is that the committees are not diverse at all. It's mostly the same old people with the same agendas. STP, same ten people. There should not be one WB member or RAC member on these committees. They will get their say at those meetings. If the DWR is really after a diverse group of people, they could easily contact hunters at random and ask them if they would like to be on a committee. The way these current committees are put together is totally designed to get the results they want.

And no offence to you Slam. But these committees are useless. The WB is going to do whatever the hell they want. Wade H has said this in no uncertain terms.

 

[slamdunk]

The problem is that the committees are not diverse at all. It's mostly the same old people with the same agendas. STP, same ten people. There should not be one WB member or RAC member on these committees. They will get their say at those meetings. If the DWR is really after a diverse group of people, they could easily contact hunters at random and ask them if they would like to be on a committee. The way these current committees are put together is totally designed to get the results they want.

And no offence to you Slam. But these committees are useless. The WB is going to do whatever the hell they want. Wade H has said this in no uncertain terms.

With respect to your comments, I personally feel this certain committee is diverse in many ways.
Diverse meaning different hunting methods amongst us for the most part.

As far as the "same people", I cannot dispute that some of them have been on other committees before, including me (I was on the very first shed antler committee).

 

[elkantlers]

With respect to your comments, I personally feel this certain committee is diverse in many ways.
Diverse meaning different hunting methods amongst us for the most part.

As far as the "same people", I cannot dispute that some of them have been on other committees before, including me (I was on the very first shed antler committee).

I was told by Carl Hirst that because I'm not a member of certain organizations and don't personally attend the RAC and WB meetings (even though I watch each and every one of them and submit comments to most), and basically shmooze the DWR. I have no chance of getting on a committee.

 

[elkassassin]

I Guess It Be Legal & OK To Have 5 MuzzleLoaders On My Wheeler or In My Truck If I Wanted To During Season,Right?

As Long As They Don't Have That Dreaded Scope On Them!

 

[Vanilla]

#3 simple guy that easily shoots 500 yards

Guilty as charged!

 

[roadrunner]

Just finished up my muzzy antelope hunt here in UT (tagged out first day).

Used a Williams Western peep because NM already made the move to no scopes, took it off and decided to just roll with it even though I could've put the 3x9 back on for this hunt.

News Flash: removing scopes WILL affect success rates. It WILL cause you to miss, or get much closer.

Had the serendipitous events not taken place, I'd be hunting tomorrow. Took two shots, one at 200 and the other at 175 (yes, the buck and his does didn't know where the shots were fired from and they moved closer to me).

I shot at those distances because practice in the spring and summer put consistent groups in an 8" circle. Both these shots were misses. The kill shot was at 50 yds, again, because they ran toward me. The first two shots echoed off the bluff pushing them to me.

 

[slamdunk]

I was told by Carl Hirst that because I'm not a member of certain organizations and don't personally attend the RAC and WB meetings (even though I watch each and every one of them and submit comments to most), and basically shmooze the DWR. I have no chance of getting on a committee.

I can't back that up but there are always "Public At Large" people on these committees with no affiliations to any outside entity ?‍

 

[slamdunk]

I’m not done addressing this Slam and not planning on throwing in the towel any time soon.
You are wrong with your unproven data on muzzleloaders tech vs archery and rifles. Keep using your Facebook posts and Cal Ranch “what’s on the shelves now” agenda

The muzzleloader is on the chopping block based off your bipolar feelings from day to day.
“It’s not about saving animals right” ?

“But if we don’t do something about the emerging technologies already out there and more to come -muzzy hunts will equal or surpass the success the rifle success rates”

What are you doing for the tech that’s already out there on rifles and archery ?

And don’t use the elimination of electronics because that affected everything.

Across the board on all 3 and we will talk.

And you’re right -I don’t know everything that’s being addressed at your meetings.

I do however know your mission statement -A statement that represents the rifle and archery industry.
Are you telling me that mission statement is false ?

I’m not done with you Slam.

It's not my data, it was presented by the DWR.

Take your issue to the source, I do not represent them.

Your relentless arguing is not going to change or even have the slightest amount of impact on the fact that change is coming.
Whether it ends up 4x, 1x or 0x, it is not going to continue the current status with the ability to keep advancing.

 

[BeDawg]

I don’t remember the New Mexicans posting this much hurt when they made the change! A lot of sensitive people fell in love with 500 yard success over the hunt itself! I was angry the F and G allowed scopes to begin with. I was sucked in and bought a very expensive scoped muzzleloader. It was clearly a superior killing piece of tech. Before the scopes, longest kill was out to 100. After the scopes I killed a buck at almost 600 yards!

 

[lundellhunting7]

It's not my data, it was presented by the DWR.

Take your issue to the source, I do not represent them.

Your relentless arguing is not going to change or even have the slightest amount of impact on the fact that change is coming.
Whether it ends up 4x, 1x or 0x, it is not going to continue the current status with the ability to keep advancing.

I am just hoping we get 4x.... But it is what it is...

 

[LIK2HNT]

Almost at 500 posts. Wondering if it will make 1000. ???

 

[Vanilla]

It was clearly a superior killing piece of tech. Before the scopes, longest kill was out to 100. After the scopes I killed a buck at almost 600 yards!

This is 100% true, and those that keep pounding the table and telling us that it doesn't make a difference have really lost all credibility on the topic.

I have tried to tell people that the state just needs to make a policy decision on how they want this hunt to look, and go with it. It appears the wildlife board has already determined they want it different than it is now. You might recall a few WB meetings ago when Wade Heaton was ready to vote on technology right then and there without the tech committee having even completed its task. He said he'd heard enough and wanted to move forward. He didn't want any more public input. That should have been a signal to folks of what was to come. Should have been.

We can blame the tech committee, and even if people want to single out Slam as he's the only one with the stones and backbone to come out publicly and talk about these issues, but that is all misplaced anger as this ball was set rolling by the wildlife board, and that is where the final decision will be made.

I don't really agree with the recommendation the tech committee came up with, but that is why there is a public process and if I feel really strongly about this I have two options:

1-Keep pizzing and moaning on this forum and attacking Slam for simply doing what he was tasked to do and then having the stones to come and inform us all here*; or
2- Show up in the public process and make your voice heard where it actually matters.

*By the way...has anyone seen this information posted anywhere else by any other committee members? I know I haven't. I even attended a tech committee meeting. It was no small task to be able to track down that info, I'll tell ya! Maybe we should be thanking Slam instead of bashing him? Maybe...

 

[slamdunk]

@Vanilla
Thank you very much, I appreciate this immensely ?

 

[Vanilla]

I don’t know you, slam. To my knowledge we’ve never met. It’s just not lost on me the efforts you’ve made to keep the public informed on this issue when I’ve not seen anything any place else from anyone else.

So whether I agree with you or the committee or anything else or not, I say thank you. We would all be completely in the dark but for your willingness to take some arrows on this forum.

As far as I’m concerned, you’re a standup guy. Thanks for what you’re doing.

Now I’m going to go take a long range muzzleloader with a high powered scope out and have a little fun. Everyone enjoy your weekend!

 

[slamdunk]

I don’t know you, slam. To my knowledge we’ve never met. It’s just not lost on me the efforts you’ve made to keep the public informed on this issue when I’ve not seen anything any place else from anyone else.

So whether I agree with you or the committee or anything else or not, I say thank you. We would all be completely in the dark but for your willingness to take some arrows on this forum.

As far as I’m concerned, you’re a standup guy. Thanks for what you’re doing.

Now I’m going to go take a long range muzzleloader with a high powered scope out and have a little fun. Everyone enjoy your weekend!

Good luck Sir, I hope success finds you!?

 

[lundellhunting7]

I don’t know you, slam. To my knowledge we’ve never met. It’s just not lost on me the efforts you’ve made to keep the public informed on this issue when I’ve not seen anything any place else from anyone else.

So whether I agree with you or the committee or anything else or not, I say thank you. We would all be completely in the dark but for your willingness to take some arrows on this forum.

As far as I’m concerned, you’re a standup guy. Thanks for what you’re doing.

Now I’m going to go take a long range muzzleloader with a high powered scope out and have a little fun. Everyone enjoy your weekend!

100%

Its my first year of dedicated.... with this being the last year for my LR Muzzy a 150 buck at 500 is going to be tempting ha ha i hope my finger doesn't get too itchy

 

[slamdunk]

I do apologize for occasionally stooping to the same level as a couple of my adversaries, that's not my true character at all.

 

[slamdunk]

100%

Its my first year of dedicated.... with this being the last year for my LR Muzzy a 150 buck at 500 is going to be tempting ha ha i hope my finger doesn't get too itchy

Nah.....just try using bowhunting style techniques and get closer on those big bucks.
I'm actually excited to go back to that myself, if it ends up that way.

 

[lundellhunting7]

Nah.....just try using bowhunting style techniques and get closer on those big bucks.
I'm actually excited to go back to that myself, if it ends up that way.

I agree.

 

[GunCarver]

Just finished up my muzzy antelope hunt here in UT (tagged out first day).

Used a Williams Western peep because NM already made the move to no scopes, took it off and decided to just roll with it even though I could've put the 3x9 back on for this hunt.

News Flash: removing scopes WILL affect success rates. It WILL cause you to miss, or get much closer.

Had the serendipitous events not taken place, I'd be hunting tomorrow. Took two shots, one at 200 and the other at 175 (yes, the buck and his does didn't know where the shots were fired from and they moved closer to me).

I shot at those distances because practice in the spring and summer put consistent groups in an 8" circle. Both these shots were misses. The kill shot was at 50 yds, again, because they ran toward me. The first two shots echoed off the bluff pushing them to me.

You got three shots at the same un-wounded animal? That's pretty impressive. You must be pretty fast at reloading.

 

[roadrunner]

You got three shots at the same un-wounded animal? That's pretty impressive. You must be pretty fast at reloading.

It was a real clown show to say the least. Shocked me as well.

 

[slamdunk]

I mean we could all have an MZ like this Parker ?‍

 

[LIK2HNT]

I mean we could all have an MZ like this Parker ?‍
View attachment 120866

Nothing personal, but that is NOT muzzy hunting!!!

 

[elkassassin]

The Gun Is Bigger Than The Deer!

And They Set It Way Back Behind The Deer!

And Then You Blanked The Brunes Face Out!

JUDAS!

I mean we could all have an MZ like this Parker ?‍
View attachment 120866

 

[slamdunk]

The Gun Is Bigger Than The Deer!

And They Set It Way Back Behind The Deer!

And Then You Blanked The Brunes Face Out!

JUDAS!

Lol....she's a young girl, nothing to get excited about ?

 

[elkassassin]

GotYa PUNK!

You Got Any Legal Pics For Guys Our Age?

Lol....she's a young girl, nothing to get excited about ?

 

[slamdunk]

GotYa PUNK!

You Got Any Legal Pics For Guys Our Age?

Yes, but Founder would fire me ?

 

[elkassassin]

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[huntnfool]

Simple guy, very basic skills.

If you cannot understand the future of where an MZ is headed, you're already too far gone.

View attachment 120630

You still have only one shot! I’ll take my 270 and crank of 5 rounds before I could reload my muzzleloader once or take my ar 15 and pop of 30 rounds. If you want a primitive hunt do the hams hunt. If you want scoped muzz hunt do it. If you want a modern rifle or any weapon as it’s called do it. Maybe .0001% use anything other than a modern rifle on said hunt. You want bow hunt do it. If you want to act like you’re doing something to the muzz hunt take away turrets. That’s pretty equivalent to what you did to bow hunt and rifle hunts. But what your proposing is a joke A tiny slap on the wrist to bows and rifles but affect 90+% of muzzleloaders ?‍
And how many muzzleloader hunters are getting muzzleloaders like you’re showing? 5% maybe?‍ my point get off the muzzleloaders back. And make changes equally across the board or go away.

 

[slamdunk]

You still have only one shot! I’ll take my 270 and crank of 5 rounds before I could reload my muzzleloader once or take my ar 15 and pop of 30 rounds. If you want a primitive hunt do the hams hunt. If you want scoped muzz hunt do it. If you want a modern rifle or any weapon as it’s called do it. Maybe .0001% use anything other than a modern rifle on said hunt. You want bow hunt do it. If you want to act like you’re doing something to the muzz hunt take away turrets. That’s pretty equivalent to what you did to bow hunt and rifle hunts. But what your proposing is a joke A tiny slap on the wrist to bows and rifles but affect 90+% of muzzleloaders ?‍
And how many muzzleloader hunters are getting muzzleloaders like you’re showing? 5% maybe?‍ my point get off the muzzleloaders back. And make changes equally across the board or go away.

5% now.....
10 years from now we'll be buying that LR technology at Cal-Ranch stores for $500 and everyone will have them just like what happened with basic inlines.

As stated multiple times, this isn't a "one and done" change, the technology committee isn't going anywhere.

We eliminated electronics off archery and out of scopes of any kind with the exception of illuminated reticles.

Muzzleloaders got the biggest pinch because it has evolved the most (due to high powered scopes), as it had the most room for growth out of the three.

Every state around us recognizes that fact, Utah was just slower to realize it in 2015.

 

[huntnfool]

5% now.....
10 years from now we'll be buying that LR technology at Cal-Ranch stores for $500 and everyone will have them just like what happened with basic inlines.

As stated multiple times, this isn't a "one and done" change, the technology committee isn't going anywhere.

We eliminated electronics off archery and out of scopes of any kind with the exception of illuminated reticles.

Muzzleloaders got the biggest pinch because it has evolved the most (due to high powered scopes), as it had the most room for growth out of the three.

Every state around us recognizes that fact, Utah was just slower to realize it in 2015.

5% now.....
10 years from now we'll be buying that LR technology at Cal-Ranch stores for $500 and everyone will have them just like what happened with basic inlines.

As stated multiple times, this isn't a "one and done" change, the technology committee isn't going anywhere.

We eliminated electronics off archery and out of scopes of any kind with the exception of illuminated reticles.

Muzzleloaders got the biggest pinch because it has evolved the most (due to high powered scopes), as it had the most room for growth out of the three.

Every state around us recognizes that fact, Utah was just slower to realize it

Why was the ham hunts started?
You don’t like the muzz hunt don’t hunt that hunt. You don’t like the any weapon hunt don’t hunt it. By the way we’ve come a hell of a long way in technology from the old open sight 30-30. You don’t like the bow hunt don’t hunt it. You want primitive the hams for you. My point is you don’t control animal populations by controlling what people use to shoot them. There’s a hunt for most everyone. But now you’re trying to take a part of one away. For what end goal? Do we give a rats ass what other states do?‍ if so why the hell are we rifle hunting elk in the rut for?
we’ve advanced technology in every aspect of hunting. And there’s no reason not too. What is the problem with it? So what if someone has a scope on their muzzleloader?
Once again if designed as a more primitive hunt why the hell did my friend just go hunt antelope with a muzzleloader after 50 something rifle hunters went through the unit? Why does another friend have to wait for the rifle hunters to go through the unit before he can go with his muzz? A lot of contradictions going on here.

 

[slamdunk]

Why was the ham hunts started?
You don’t like the muzz hunt don’t hunt that hunt. You don’t like the any weapon hunt don’t hunt it. By the way we’ve come a hell of a long way in technology from the old open sight 30-30. You don’t like the bow hunt don’t hunt it. You want primitive the hams for you. My point is you don’t control animal populations by controlling what people use to shoot them. There’s a hunt for most everyone. But now you’re trying to take a part of one away. For what end goal? Do we give a rats ass what other states do?‍ if so why the hell are we rifle hunting elk in the rut for?
we’ve advanced technology in every aspect of hunting. And there’s no reason not too. What is the problem with it? So what if someone has a scope on their muzzleloader?
Once again if designed as a more primitive hunt why the hell did my friend just go hunt antelope with a muzzleloader after 50 something rifle hunters went through the unit? Why does another friend have to wait for the rifle hunters to go through the unit before he can go with his muzz? A lot of contradictions going on here.

I'm really not doing this again, you could have been involved in these same conversations for the past several months, I'm not starting over.

This is not about deer numbers, I am ready to vomit over that asinine assumption.

If you cannot see where the MZ has came from in such a short time and where it is headed, you to are too far gone to understand.

 

[roadrunner]

Every state around us recognizes that fact, Utah was just slower to realize it in 2015.

Except one of the 4 Corners sister states (with UT) didn't jump on it until UT started the conversation...

 

[huntnfool]

I'm really not doing this again, you could have been involved in these same conversations for the past several months, I'm not starting over.

This is not about deer numbers, I am ready to vomit over that asinine assumption.

If you cannot see where the MZ has came from in such a short time and where it is headed, you to are too far gone to understand.

I can see where it’s headed? but you could’ve stopped it but you didn’t need to knocked it back over 25 years. I can take my rifle and consistently hit a gong at 1000 yards. When I started 44 years ago 300 yards was stretching it. ?‍ my muzz 44 years ago which I shot my first deer with was 80 yards.my muzz now with my 3x9 x40 scope no turret’s around 300 yards consistently. BUT still I have only one shot with my muzz thus MUZZLELOADER.
You made your decision and will not change your mind I see that. But don’t set there and tell me this is what muzzleloader hunters wanted. Yes stop this crazy new technology but don’t knock it back over 25 years this is what I’m hearing for the muzz community I’m talking too.
I hope this technology committee doesn’t get a god complex and think they are all knowing and don’t question me.
I feel like you just took the easy way out on this one.
I was making your point it’s not about animal numbers so vomit away?

 

[BeDawg]

I can see where it’s headed? but you could’ve stopped it but you didn’t need to knocked it back over 25 years. I can take my rifle and consistently hit a gong at 1000 yards. When I started 44 years ago 300 yards was stretching it. ?‍ my muzz 44 years ago which I shot my first deer with was 80 yards.my muzz now with my 3x9 x40 scope no turret’s around 300 yards consistently. BUT still I have only one shot with my muzz thus MUZZLELOADER.
You made your decision and will not change your mind I see that. But don’t set there and tell me this is what muzzleloader hunters wanted. Yes stop this crazy new technology but don’t knock it back over 25 years this is what I’m hearing for the muzz community I’m talking too.
I hope this technology committee doesn’t get a god complex and think they are all knowing and don’t question me.

I was pointing out it’s not about animal numbers so vomit away?

I am part of the muzzleloader community, maybe not as hardcore as you, but would love to see muzzleloader technology scaled back to what it was 25 years ago!

 

[elkantlers]

I am part of the muzzleloader community, maybe not as hardcore as you, but would love to see muzzleloader technology scaled back to what it was 25 years ago!

I can see by your Avatar that you shoot a modern Compound bow with Cams the size of dinner plates. The sight looks pretty advanced, maybe a slider?
How about we go back 25 years on archery?

In case you are wondering, these are not the same technology....

 

[huntnfool]

I can see by your Avatar that you shoot a modern Compound bow with Cams the size of dinner plates. The sight looks pretty advanced, maybe a slider?
How about we go back 25 years on archery?

In case you are wondering, these are not the same technology....

View attachment 121022

View attachment 121023

Killed my second deer 43 years ago with a bear polar ltd it had six pulleys and was longer that the deer was?
Everything has advanced amazingly in my hunting career. Range finders? I remember it was tr35 or something like that. You turned a knob until the images focus real reliable.
Ya muzzleloaders are advancing at large rate right now sure pull it in. But the committee is drawing differ boundaries for the different weapons. The muzzleloader was implemented as a primitive weapon hunt no **** . Still is compared to rifle. As stated I hunted with a muzzleloader 44 years ago (also bow and rifle) don’t know how many years before that it was a hunt. Everything has changed over that time. Why do we want to go back so far? adjust now but get real with it. If I want to pull out my old hawkin I will put in for a ham hunt. If I want to bow hunt I’ll put in for it. If I want to use my inline I’ll put in for that hunt, if I want to pull out my 1000 yard rifle I’ll put in for that hunt. I still rotate to hunt with them all. Just seems like the muzz community is getting it worse. And again adjust now don’t pick a date and go backward way worse for one weapon type over the other. And again I see how fast muzz is advancing at this point but again get real with your recommendation’s (committee )

 

[huntnfool]

I am part of the muzzleloader community, maybe not as hardcore as you, but would love to see muzzleloader technology scaled back to what it was 25 years ago!

Hard core hardly?

 

[huntnfool]

Hard core hardly?

You want to scale muzzleloaders back 25 years then scale all weapons back 25 years.
You want to rein in all weapon technology then do it equally. Not that hard to understand ?‍

 

[roadrunner]

Not that hard to understand ?‍

You'd be surprised...

 

[Bux n Dux]

If only there was this kind of effort and discussion put into growing deer. We might actually see the needle moving in a positive direction! I wish the goal was to put and keep more animals on the landscape. But that’s too hard to do. This is a much easier option. The low hanging fruit…

Good thing slammy daddy is here to keep us all in check. It would sure be a dark world full of confusion without his guidance. He’s the Jesus of utah hunting when it comes to setting the example.

Muzzleloaders have had the most growth over the other weapon types in the past 20 years? What rock have you been living under? Have you seen the hoyt bows today compared to the hoyt bows from 2003? Look at the arrows. Broadheads. Vanes. Sights. Releases. Rests. If you have been involved with all 3 weapons over the last 20 years at all, you’d know they haven’t had the advances that archery and rifles have had. 100 yard shots were only achieved by the most elite archers. 1000 yard shots were unheard of for hunting. Both are very common and achievable for your average hunter today if they do a little practicing, even with a basic setup. It’s not that hard. Muzzleloaders have had the least growth as far as technology goes… to deny that, shows your ignorance about the weapons and how far they’ve come.

If this isn’t “about the deer numbers” (that’s the root to where this all started and you should know that), maybe it should be! Would it be so terrible if we actually put the animals as the priority in all of these ideas?

 

[slamdunk]

If this isn’t “about the deer numbers” (that’s the root to where this all started and you should know that), maybe it should be! Would it be so terrible if we actually put the animals as the priority in all of these ideas?

You do realize there are various "wildlife" committees that do that work, right?

It's NOT the the tech committees assignment to grow animals.

Not hard to understand how the system is set up.......?

 

[notdonhunting]

You do realize there are various "wildlife" committees that do that work, right?

It's the the tech committee to grow animals.

Not hard to understand how the system is set up.......?

Don't waste your fingerprints on him, he is just a troll and a very poor one at that.

 

[notdonhunting]

I can see by your Avatar that you shoot a modern Compound bow with Cams the size of dinner plates. The sight looks pretty advanced, maybe a slider?
How about we go back 25 years on archery?

In case you are wondering, these are not the same technology....

View attachment 121022

View attachment 121023

Add about 15 years on to that picture of the top compound, and then you might be in the right Era. I was shooting cams on bows in the late 1980's.

 

[Bux n Dux]

You do realize there are various "wildlife" committees that do that work, right?

It's the the tech committee to grow animals.

Not hard to understand how the system is set up.......?

if you look at anything hunting related, in a way that the goal is to benefit the wildlife as the priority, maybe they might benefit from it?

Is that hard for YOU to understand?

you obviously have the same mentality with your position in the RMEF. Which explains a lot. “That’s not MY job. Someone else can do that!”

 

[Bux n Dux]

Don't waste your fingerprints on him, he is just a troll and a very poor one at that.

?

 

[slamdunk]

if you look at anything hunting related, in a way that the goal is to benefit the wildlife as the priority, maybe they might benefit from it?

Is that hard for YOU to understand?

you obviously have the same mentality with your position in the RMEF. Which explains a lot. “That’s not MY job. Someone else can do that!”

Ummmmmm, you just validated my arguments about your comprehension, knowledge and listening skills.
The ONLY position I have with RMEF is being one of their panel judges for the World Champion Elk Calling.

If you're going to attempt calling me out on something, you should at least do some homework ?‍

 

[elkantlers]

Good thing slammy daddy is here to keep us all in check. It would sure be a dark world full of confusion without his guidance. He’s the Jesus of utah hunting when it comes to setting the example.

I don't think "Slam Daddy" is the bad guy here. He has said he pushed for 4x, that's all we can ask.
He's been a good sport taking **** from several on here including myself.

Now it's up to all those with an opinion to let the RAC and WB know what they want. Then it's up to the WB to disregard everything and do whatever the Hell they want.

 

[Bux n Dux]

Ummmmmm, you just validated my arguments about your comprehension, knowledge and listening skills.
The ONLY position I have with RMEF is being one of their panel judges for the World Champion Elk Calling.

If you're going to attempt calling me out on something, you should at least do some homework ?‍

Do you not represent them in the technology committee? If not, which group do you represent?

 

[slamdunk]

Do you not represent them in the technology committee? If not, which group do you represent?

No I absolutely do not.
I don't "represent" any group on that committee.

You fight me, name calling, gay sexual comments, unsubstantiated accusations and pretend to know me simply because you're a childish comedian trying to get attention.

Good gawd you are something else......

 

[Bux n Dux]

No I absolutely do not.
I don't "represent" any group on that committee.

You fight me, name calling, gay sexual comments, unsubstantiated accusations and pretend to know me simply because you're a childish comedian trying to get attention.

Good gawd you are something else......

Oh calm down. I thought you were done stopping to my level.

So you’re just there…. Representing yourself?

Let’s see the list of all the committee members and the groups they represent… and I suppose the individuals who are just there for fun too.

 

[slamdunk]

Oh calm down. I thought you were done stopping to my level.

So you’re just there…. Representing yourself?

Let’s see the list of all the committee members and the groups they represent… and I suppose the individuals who are just there for fun too.

If you must know, a voice for SFW is there for that "group" only.

Do you ever tire from assuming you know everything just to get proven wrong?
I mean, it's got to get old at some point.....

 

[Bux n Dux]

If you must know, a voice for SFW is there for that "group" only.

Do you ever tire from assuming you know everything just to get proven wrong?
I mean, it's got to get old at some point.....

I don’t assume I know everything. Let’s see the list of members! I know you have it

 

[slamdunk]

@Bux n Dux
You know, I agree with a lot of your suggestions in helping rehabilitate our deer herds, I seriously do.
Surprisingly, we do share several of the same ideas and want the same end result.

The difference between you and me is I actually get involved in as many areas as my time allows so that I can learn all sides and aspects of this industry, from planting habitat, raising money for projects, social networking, being on committees, etc, etc.

It's no secret that you have a black eye in this industry and would never be asked to get involved, I fully understand that.

So entertain us on what it is you can actually do to help our big game besides brag about stealing trail cameras off trees and throwing out insults on MM about the processes within the systems put into place by people with real educational backgrounds in wildlife?

 

[Bux n Dux]

@Bux n Dux
You know, I agree with a lot of your suggestions in helping rehabilitate our deer herds, I seriously do.
Surprisingly, we do share several of the same ideas and want the same end result.

The difference between you and me is I actually get involved in as many areas as my time allows so that I can learn all sides and aspects of this industry, from planting habitat, raising money for projects, social networking, being on committees, etc, etc.

It's no secret that you have a black eye in this industry and would never be asked to get involved, I fully understand that.

So entertain us on what it is you can actually do to help our big game besides brag about stealing trail cameras off trees and throwing out insults on MM about the processes within the systems put into place by people with real educational backgrounds in wildlife?

You learn all that from Facebook stalking me and making assumptions?


For starters I’d look at is as more of a “community” instead of an “industry”. I’d treat the wildlife like it’s their for all of us to enjoy privately instead of publicly and not exploiting it for monetary gain, like it has been.

 

[slamdunk]

You learn all that from Facebook stalking me and making assumptions?


For starters I’d look at is as more of a “community” instead of an “industry”. I’d treat the wildlife like it’s their for all of us to enjoy privately instead of publicly and not exploiting it for monetary gain, like it has been.

No, I learned absolutely nothing from your Facebook, I didn't even look at it....it was sent to me since you were playing "hide and seek" with us all.

Ok, I'll give you that "Community" even though it is also an enormous "industry".

News flash and with plain common sense.....wildlife IS MOST DEFINITELY "public".
You really want to admit that if you were king for a day you would privatize Utah's Wildlife?

Oh boy........?‍

 

[Bux n Dux]

No, I learned absolutely nothing from your Facebook, I didn't even look at it....it was sent to me since you were playing "hide and seek" with us all.

Ok, I'll give you that "Community" even though it is also an enormous "industry".

News flash and with plain common sense.....wildlife IS MOST DEFINITELY "public".
You really want to admit that if you were king for a day you would privatize Utah's Wildlife?

Oh boy........?‍

I wasn’t playing hide and seek. I have never hid who I was. For those paying attention, it was pretty easy to connect the dots. Sorry you felt like I was trying to be anonymous. That was never the intention.

Privately meaning privately within our homes, families, friends, etc. for personal enjoyment. Not exploiting our public resources on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, etc. for fame and money. It’s a plague that has destroyed hunting as we use to know it.

Let’s be honest though, Utahs wildlife for privatized years ago when $FW jumped into the scene. It’s been downhill for the “public” ever since.

 

[BeDawg]

I can see by your Avatar that you shoot a modern Compound bow with Cams the size of dinner plates. The sight looks pretty advanced, maybe a slider?
How about we go back 25 years on archery?

In case you are wondering, these are not the same technology....

View attachment 121022

View attachment 121023

Obviously I don’t have a problem with compounds. I don’t have a prob with scoped muzzles either. Let’s limit technology as a means of giving the biggest bucks on the mountain a chance!

 

[BeDawg]

You want to scale muzzleloaders back 25 years then scale all weapons back 25 years.
You want to rein in all weapon technology then do it equally. Not that hard to understand ?‍

that would be great! No wheels on bows, no scopes on muzzleloaders and outlaw range finders all together.

 

[elkantlers]

Obviously I don’t have a problem with compounds. I don’t have a prob with scoped muzzles either. Let’s limit technology as a means of giving the biggest bucks on the mountain a chance to make it to the rifle hunt where they will get whacked anyway.

Fixed it for you.

 

[middlefork]

that would be great! No wheels on bows, no scopes on muzzleloaders and outlaw range finders all together.

I'm sure this reply will get lost in the noise but here goes.

HAMS hunt weapon restriction have already been approved.
It is only a matter of expanding the scope and quantity of those hunts. If you want to hunt with way back technology have at it.

It is pretty hard to try and tell people what technology is acceptable. There is never going to a consensus.

Did you happen to listen when the 2 way communication discussion came up? OMG thousands of people can't kill an animal without talking on a phone or radio. But never fear the WB in their infinite wisdom shot that one down real quick.

The secret? Get the G&O's on your side along with the CWMU's and this would all go away.

 

[huntnfool]

that would be great! No wheels on bows, no scopes on muzzleloaders and outlaw range finders all together.

Sarcasm ?

 

[huntnfool]

@Bux n Dux
You know, I agree with a lot of your suggestions in helping rehabilitate our deer herds, I seriously do.
Surprisingly, we do share several of the same ideas and want the same end result.

The difference between you and me is I actually get involved in as many areas as my time allows so that I can learn all sides and aspects of this industry, from planting habitat, raising money for projects, social networking, being on committees, etc, etc.

It's no secret that you have a black eye in this industry and would never be asked to get involved, I fully understand that.

So entertain us on what it is you can actually do to help our big game besides brag about stealing trail cameras off trees and throwing out insults on MM about the processes within the systems put into place by people with real educational backgrounds in wildlife?

And there you have it? never took much stock in someone that has to pat themselves on the back in public , and belittle others with their so called superiority. I see this is a waste of my time.

 

[slamdunk]

And there you have it? never took much stock in someone that has to pat themselves on the back in public , and belittle others with their so called superiority. I see this is a waste of my time.

Interpret it however you'd like.
I only talk down to him because if you have followed along, he has attempted to belittle me, slander me, ridiculous assumptions and childish accusations with absolutely zero knowledge of how the system works or even my personal position within it.
All 100% assumptions.

Anyone can sit on a keyboard and point fingers, but sit back and do absolutely nothing to either learn the other side of things or even stand for their own cause.

A waste of your time?
That's perfectly fine.....let's not match wits on personal time wasted.

Funny thing to mention about your MM handle that almost threw me off.
Fellow Tech Committee member of HuntinFool Magazine is the VP of operations.
He told us last Monday in our meeting that he had his muzzy dialed in for 900 yards and was headed out on his hunt the next day.
Care to guess what his stance and vote was on muzzy scopes?

 

[elkassassin]

We Are Working On a 5!

 

[elkassassin]

There It Is!