Founder did a podcast!

SS!

SS!

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This State will Grow/Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls Just About Anywhere In The State When Managed properly!

When Managed For MONEY/GREED/Opportunity Well Here The HELL We Are!

When a 2 Point Is The Biggest Bucks That Are Left They'll Still Be SPORTIN Em around Town In The Back Of Their Trucks Like They've Killed Some Kinda Trophy!

It Ain't Far Off!
 
elkassassin said:
This State will Grow/Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls Just About Anywhere In The State When Managed properly!

When Managed For MONEY/GREED/Opportunity Well Here The HELL We Are!

When a 2 Point Is The Biggest Bucks That Are Left They'll Still Be SPORTIN Em around Town In The Back Of Their Trucks Like They've Killed Some Kinda Trophy!

It Ain't Far Off!
Click to expand...

You must have this post copy&paste!
Change it up a little bess. It is getting old.
 
I know E.A. probably dont know how to get on a podcast but maybe we can a tech savvy member to get him on one somewhere.
That I will defintely listen too!
 
Founder Said Perty Much Everything I've Been Saying For Years!

He Even Mentioned ATV'S!:D

He Just Said It In a Nicer Way Than I Would Have!
 
elkhunterUT said:
Oh I remember, as do many others. Prove us all wrong just once with a pic or story once in awhile (let's start with your San Juan elk story)!! That might balance out all of the other drivel...OK - maybe that is pushing it a bit too far :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Yes, silence all of the critics with a detailed report on your San Juan elk hunt. I would love to hear the details of that hunt even if it ended with you eating a big bowl of tag soup.

Hawkeye
 
elkassassin said:
This State will Grow/Produce Quality Bucks & Bulls Just About Anywhere In The State When Managed properly!

When Managed For MONEY/GREED/Opportunity Well Here The HELL We Are!

When a 2 Point Is The Biggest Bucks That Are Left They'll Still Be SPORTIN Em around Town In The Back Of Their Trucks Like They've Killed Some Kinda Trophy!

It Ain't Far Off!
Click to expand...
That was a good part of the 70s and 80s. Hell of lot of 2points in the backs of trucks getting driven around and showed off. Yep the days of seeing 100s of does and no bucks was a norm and ok.
32k and counting until a post of value?
 
treedagain said:
That was a good part of the 70s and 80s. Hell of lot of 2points in the backs of trucks getting driven around and showed off. Yep the days of seeing 100s of does and no bucks was a norm and ok.
32k and counting until a post of value?
Click to expand...
Hell I remember my friends grandpa telling us he shot a 10x12 down in the fish lake area back in the 60s and traded it to a kid for a 2 point because they taste better. Most people just didn’t care as much about antlers back then. Ironic. People would **** themselves to shoot 26 inch bucks regularly nowadays.
 
Can someone get Bess to explain how the DWR will manage all the growth in the state?


Perhaps, if the turd herders of Utah refused to do another new house, growth would slow?
 
Just took 40 minutes and listened to Founder’s conversation on the pod cast. He touched on a lot of things someone with literary skills should write a deep dive book on and maybe use the book as a guide for a skilled documentary producer to put together a 8 or 10 hours television series on, for one of these hundreds of cable channels to air and archive for American mule deer hunting history.

It could even go back into the early history when Lewis and Clark first reported mule deer on their trip to the Pacific Ocean in 1804/05, then during the Rocky Mountain Fur trade and pioneer/settlement era, including the Roosevelt years, then the WWI and WWII years, when the mule deer population exploded, followed by the 1950’s thru the 1970’s, then the 1980’s through the 2020’ and finish with a hour regarding what the future of mule deer hunting looks like it is going to be…….. in the next twenty years.

My personal opinion is public land mule deer hunting is very nearly a thing of the past. Founder seems to point that out without discussing the opportunities that still exist for private land hunting verse the future of public land mule deer hunting. He does put his toe in the water regarding a different future for public vs private land mule deer hunting when he spoke about purchasing his Colorado land owner tags, during the last 20 years.

I’ve started believing, since about 2016, the future for mule deer and mule deer hunting will be on and very much limited to private land. Which is causing me to have less and less interest in protecting and preserving our Federal and State public lands. Like Founder, my love for big game hunting is for mule deer not for other species, so when there are so few mule deer left on public lands, there will be very little interest for me to hold and preserve them as you do today. If only private lands will have mule deer, then I personally will be more interested in more private land……. so we have more land to grow more mule deer, albeit, they will be more expensive.

I’ll offer one more observation, killing bucks will never decease the mule deer population, so we should keep killing the bucks until the rest of the does are gone. Even then, we should never stop selling public land buck mule deer tags, because, should one ever leave the private, we’ll have a tag to make sure he dies.

For younger hunters, who want to hunt mule deer, where there are mule deer, ( you can still hunt were there aren’t any, like we do pheasants) whether it’s every year or…….. two or three times in your life time, start earning and saving large quantities of money or cryptocurrency, cuz you are going to need a lot of it.

Mule deer hunting will continue but not the way most of us have accessed it in the past. This is not big news for many of us.
 
2lumpy said:
Just took 40 minutes and listened to Founder’s conversation on the pod cast. He touched on a lot of things someone with literary skills should write a deep dive book on and maybe use the book as a guide for a skilled documentary producer to put together a 8 or 10 hours television series on, for one of these hundreds of cable channels to air and archive for American mule deer hunting history.

It could even go back into the early history when Lewis and Clark first reported mule deer on their trip to the Pacific Ocean in 1804/05, then during the Rocky Mountain Fur trade and pioneer/settlement era, including the Roosevelt years, then the WWI and WWII years, when the mule deer population exploded, followed by the 1950’s thru the 1970’s, then the 1980’s through the 2020’ and finish with a hour regarding what the future of mule deer hunting looks like it is going to be…….. in the next twenty years.

My personal opinion is public land mule deer hunting is very nearly a thing of the past. Founder seems to point that out without discussing the opportunities that still exist for private land hunting verse the future of public land mule deer hunting. He does put his toe in the water regarding a different future for public vs private land mule deer hunting when he spoke about purchasing his Colorado land owner tags, during the last 20 years.

I’ve started believing, since about 2016, the future for mule deer and mule deer hunting will be on and very much limited to private land. Which is causing me to have less and less interest in protecting and preserving our Federal and State public lands. Like Founder, my love for big game hunting is for mule deer not for other species, so when there are so few mule deer left on public lands, there will be very little interest for me to hold and preserve them as you do today. If only private lands will have mule deer, then I personally will be more interested in more private land……. so we have more land to grow more mule deer, albeit, they will be more expensive.

I’ll offer one more observation, killing bucks will never decease the mule deer population, so we should keep killing the bucks until the rest of the does are gone. Even then, we should never stop selling public land buck mule deer tags, because, should one ever leave the private, we’ll have a tag to make sure he dies.

For younger hunters, who want to hunt mule deer, where there are mule deer, ( you can still hunt were there aren’t any, like we do pheasants) whether it’s every year or…….. two or three times in your life time, start earning and saving large quantities of money or cryptocurrency, cuz you are going to need a lot of it.

Mule deer hunting will continue but not the way most of us have accessed it in the past. This is not big news for many of us.
Click to expand...


Then hunting, and more specially American hunting will die.

Once hunting ceases to be the pursuit of wild animals in wild places and becomes some quasi livestock production operation, then the support hunting has received from the public will die.

There isn't a poll anywhere where the American public supports trophy hunting. Pretending private land only hunting won't lead to the end of hunting completely is unbelievably short sighted and wrong headed.
 
hossblur said:
Then hunting, and more specially American hunting will die.

Once hunting ceases to be the pursuit of wild animals in wild places and becomes some quasi livestock production operation, then the support hunting has received from the public will die.

There isn't a poll anywhere where the American public supports trophy hunting. Pretending private land only hunting won't lead to the end of hunting completely is unbelievably short sighted and wrong headed.
Click to expand...
I kind of agree with both you. Private land may end up the only option at some point, but it shouldn’t be the goal. Mule deer herds are currently low, but many decades of data show populations of mule deer have major swings for different reasons. I think a good amount of deer population complaints nowadays are actually complaints about the available age class of bucks. If it’s an age class issue then it is most likely our own doing. Weapons are better, gear is better, access is better, and hunters are better.
 
lif said:
I kind of agree with both you. Private land may end up the only option at some point, but it shouldn’t be the goal. Mule deer herds are currently low, but many decades of data show populations of mule deer have major swings for different reasons. I think a good amount of deer population complaints nowadays are actually complaints about the available age class of bucks. If it’s an age class issue then it is most likely our own doing. Weapons are better, gear is better, access is better, and hunters are better.
Click to expand...
I wish I was as optimistic as you but these large Christian based families are going to be the demise of mule deer. You want to help mule deer out in the west? Get a vasectomy.
 
SS! said:
I wish I was as optimistic as you but these large Christian based families are going to be the demise of mule deer. You want to help mule deer out in the west? Get a vasectomy.
Click to expand...

Been waiting for you to pull your head out and get comical.

WELL PLAYED SIR.
 
2lumpy said:
I’ll offer one more observation, killing bucks will never decease the mule deer population, so we should keep killing the bucks until the rest of the does are gone. Even then, we should never stop selling public land buck mule deer tags, because, should one ever leave the private, we’ll have a tag to make sure he dies.
Click to expand...
I hope this is sarcasm? I don't see any reason why public hunting can't be managed in such a way that mule deer flourish. If mule deer can flourish on private land then there is no reason why they can't flourish on public land if hunting is properly managed. I get that private land often has better food sources but public land often has other things that mule deer need. We often see a big difference between private and public land, which suggests to me that the hunting on public lands is not being well managed.
 
Lumpy Would Never Spout Sarcasm!:D

NEVER Mention PROPERLY MANAGED Here On MM Or You'll Get Your AZZ Chewed Like I Do!



gundog2 said:
I hope this is sarcasm? I don't see any reason why public hunting can't be managed in such a way that mule deer flourish. If mule deer can flourish on private land then there is no reason why they can't flourish on public land if hunting is properly managed. I get that private land often has better food sources but public land often has other things that mule deer need. We often see a big difference between private and public land, which suggests to me that the hunting on public lands is not being well managed.
Click to expand...
 
Right On Tikka!

Out Here Right During COVID A Bunch Of LOW-LIFES Left Their Cheap Ass Tents & Trash Everywhere!

Guess They Were Afraid To Breathe in Them a second Time?

Tikka said:
There ain’t a single mule deer/elk that can sustain the constant pressure from public land use… Just since Covid, public land use/abuse has increased 10 fold….
Click to expand...
 
I
2lumpy said:
Just took 40 minutes and listened to Founder’s conversation on the pod cast. He touched on a lot of things someone with literary skills should write a deep dive book on and maybe use the book as a guide for a skilled documentary producer to put together a 8 or 10 hours television series on, for one of these hundreds of cable channels to air and archive for American mule deer hunting history.

It could even go back into the early history when Lewis and Clark first reported mule deer on their trip to the Pacific Ocean in 1804/05, then during the Rocky Mountain Fur trade and pioneer/settlement era, including the Roosevelt years, then the WWI and WWII years, when the mule deer population exploded, followed by the 1950’s thru the 1970’s, then the 1980’s through the 2020’ and finish with a hour regarding what the future of mule deer hunting looks like it is going to be…….. in the next twenty years.

My personal opinion is public land mule deer hunting is very nearly a thing of the past. Founder seems to point that out without discussing the opportunities that still exist for private land hunting verse the future of public land mule deer hunting. He does put his toe in the water regarding a different future for public vs private land mule deer hunting when he spoke about purchasing his Colorado land owner tags, during the last 20 years.

I’ve started believing, since about 2016, the future for mule deer and mule deer hunting will be on and very much limited to private land. Which is causing me to have less and less interest in protecting and preserving our Federal and State public lands. Like Founder, my love for big game hunting is for mule deer not for other species, so when there are so few mule deer left on public lands, there will be very little interest for me to hold and preserve them as you do today. If only private lands will have mule deer, then I personally will be more interested in more private land……. so we have more land to grow more mule deer, albeit, they will be more expensive.

I’ll offer one more observation, killing bucks will never decease the mule deer population, so we should keep killing the bucks until the rest of the does are gone. Even then, we should never stop selling public land buck mule deer tags, because, should one ever leave the private, we’ll have a tag to make sure he dies.

For younger hunters, who want to hunt mule deer, where there are mule deer, ( you can still hunt were there aren’t any, like we do pheasants) whether it’s every year or…….. two or three times in your life time, start earning and saving large quantities of money or cryptocurrency, cuz you are going to need a lot of it.

Mule deer hunting will continue but not the way most of us have accessed it in the past. This is not big news for many of us.
Click to expand...
I for one not only hope but believe you are mistaken. The majority of mule deer habitat is and will continue to be on the vast public lands of the American west. do a lot of mule deer make their homes on private land? Sure they do, but even many areas with large quantities of ag lands also have small blocks of public that usually have the sanctuary that mule deer need.
 
andrew12gauge said:
I

I for one not only hope but believe you are mistaken. The majority of mule deer habitat is and will continue to be on the vast public lands of the American west. do a lot of mule deer make their homes on private land? Sure they do, but even many areas with large quantities of ag lands also have small blocks of public that usually have the sanctuary that mule deer need.
Click to expand...
Well…….. good for you. But, other than those vast public land and few sanctuary what is feeding your hope and causing you to believe I’m mistaken.

If I am wrong, which would make me happy, what other than hope and belief are you and a few hundred thousand other sportsmen going to do. Hope isn’t going to curb the tide. Listen carefully to what Founder is saying. In a nut shell he’s saying “ sportsmen are not going to do anything, they are going to go golf or fish etc.”
 
2lumpy said:
Well…….. good for you. But, other than those vast public land and few sanctuary what is feeding your hope and causing you to believe I’m mistaken.

If I am wrong, which would make me happy, what other than hope and belief are you and a few hundred thousand other sportsmen going to do. Hope isn’t going to curb the tide. Listen carefully to what Founder is saying. In a nut shell he’s saying “ sportsmen are not going to do anything, they are going to go golf or fish etc.”
Click to expand...
I’m going to keep on hunting public land mule deer. You say that there will only be mule deer hunting on private in the future, so you’ve given up on defending public land ownership, my question to you is how do we lose access to public land mule deer hunting unless we allow all the places mule deer reside to become private?
 
andrew12gauge said:
I’m going to keep on hunting public land mule deer. You say that there will only be mule deer hunting on private in the future, so you’ve given up on defending public land ownership, my question to you is how do we lose access to public land mule deer hunting unless we allow all the places mule deer reside to become private?
Click to expand...
Oops, one of us has it backwards. I think I said, something to the affect, as mule deer populations decline, in as much as I believe there is no serious effort to reverse the decline, there will be very few mule deer left to hunt on public land. Based on that observation I’m beginning loose my support of keep those lands public. My rational and interest in keeping the land public is because I want access to hunt mule deer. If the deer are gone, I have little interest in accessing those lands.

If private land steps up and grows the mule population, my rational is, the more private land the more mule deer. So let’s sell the public land and let the owners grow more mule deer to hunt.

That’s what I believe is going to happen…. so my advice to future generations that want to hunt mule deer better begin to prepare for that type of hunting and plan for the associated costs and access agreements, now rather than wait until those opportunities are already taken by others.

You seem to believe that I believe will happen will “cause” it to happen. Not true. It’s already happening and us old timers have done what we can to prevent it but to no avail. Maybe your generation can reverse the trend, more power to you but don’t ignore what gone before you unsuccessfully because repeating what my generation did isn’t going to fix it. I can’t see anyone, from your generation or mine doing anything to turn the clock back now. To the contrary, the current generation of hunters tell us to stop living in the past and go hunt.

Founder seems to believe that current attitudes and behavior “allow”, not “cause” mule deer hunting to decline. I agree. What Founder didn’t go into was the potential to hunt on private land accept to sag he has already been purchasing landowner tags in Colorado, for the last 20 years. To which I say, that’s the trend, not because Founder wants it to be but because he must believe he has to. So to will future mule deer hunters…….. because public land mule deer hunting has already become frustrating and those “professionals” being paid to keep it viable have been unable and/or are unwilling to do so.

Ignore my recommendation as you wish.

As they say in show business, “break a leg”, my friend.
 
This State Will Grow Big Bucks & Bulls Just About Anywhere in The State When Managed Properly!

Anybody Ever Heard Me Say That Before?

Like A Broken F'N Record!

Manage It Like It's Been Managed the Last 50+ Years & Here The Hell We Are!
 
2lumpy said:
Oops, one of us has it backwards. I think I said, something to the affect, as mule deer populations decline, in as much as I believe there is no serious effort to reverse the decline, there will be very few mule deer left to hunt on public land. Based on that observation I’m beginning loose my support of keep those lands public. My rational and interest in keeping the land public is because I want access to hunt mule deer. If the deer are gone, I have little interest in accessing those lands.

If private land steps up and grows the mule population, my rational is, the more private land the more mule deer. So let’s sell the public land and let the owners grow more mule deer to hunt.

That’s what I believe is going to happen…. so my advice to future generations that want to hunt mule deer better begin to prepare for that type of hunting and plan for the associated costs and access agreements, now rather than wait until those opportunities are already taken by others.

You seem to believe that I believe will happen will “cause” it to happen. Not true. It’s already happening and us old timers have done what we can to prevent it but to no avail. Maybe your generation can reverse the trend, more power to you but don’t ignore what gone before you unsuccessfully because repeating what my generation did isn’t going to fix it. I can’t see anyone, from your generation or mine doing anything to turn the clock back now. To the contrary, the current generation of hunters tell us to stop living in the past and go hunt.

Founder seems to believe that current attitudes and behavior “allow”, not “cause” mule deer hunting to decline. I agree. What Founder didn’t go into was the potential to hunt on private land accept to sag he has already been purchasing landowner tags in Colorado, for the last 20 years. To which I say, that’s the trend, not because Founder wants it to be but because he must believe he has to. So to will future mule deer hunters…….. because public land mule deer hunting has already become frustrating and those “professionals” being paid to keep it viable have been unable and/or are unwilling to do so.

Ignore my recommendation as you wish.

As they say in show business, “break a leg”, my friend.
Click to expand...
God works in mysterious ways!
 
2lumpy said:
Oops, one of us has it backwards. I think I said, something to the affect, as mule deer populations decline, in as much as I believe there is no serious effort to reverse the decline, there will be very few mule deer left to hunt on public land. Based on that observation I’m beginning loose my support of keep those lands public. My rational and interest in keeping the land public is because I want access to hunt mule deer. If the deer are gone, I have little interest in accessing those lands.

If private land steps up and grows the mule population, my rational is, the more private land the more mule deer. So let’s sell the public land and let the owners grow more mule deer to hunt.

That’s what I believe is going to happen…. so my advice to future generations that want to hunt mule deer better begin to prepare for that type of hunting and plan for the associated costs and access agreements, now rather than wait until those opportunities are already taken by others.

You seem to believe that I believe will happen will “cause” it to happen. Not true. It’s already happening and us old timers have done what we can to prevent it but to no avail. Maybe your generation can reverse the trend, more power to you but don’t ignore what gone before you unsuccessfully because repeating what my generation did isn’t going to fix it. I can’t see anyone, from your generation or mine doing anything to turn the clock back now. To the contrary, the current generation of hunters tell us to stop living in the past and go hunt.

Founder seems to believe that current attitudes and behavior “allow”, not “cause” mule deer hunting to decline. I agree. What Founder didn’t go into was the potential to hunt on private land accept to sag he has already been purchasing landowner tags in Colorado, for the last 20 years. To which I say, that’s the trend, not because Founder wants it to be but because he must believe he has to. So to will future mule deer hunters…….. because public land mule deer hunting has already become frustrating and those “professionals” being paid to keep it viable have been unable and/or are unwilling to do so.

Ignore my recommendation as you wish.

As they say in show business, “break a leg”, my friend.
Click to expand...
I think founder buys landowner tags in order to hunt public land, so it’s not because the deer are only on private, it’s because that is the game to play in order to ensure a tag while also conserving points for a draw in the future.

I personally think that with the current treatments we are getting to fight cheatgrass invasion, potentially lessening the severity of range fires in the future we can potentially reverse the trend of lost mule deer habitat. We still need to stop developing winter range too but fortunately there are many mule deer herds away from the major metro areas that are seeing the most encroachment.

I understand the negativity, mule deer seem to be in a tough spot but throwing up our hands and saying to privatize the lands isn’t the answer
 
Okay…… I understand. Mine have been up since 2014, don’t believe I’ll be joining in any more boxing matches or fund raising efforts on behalf of mule deer again but I’ll continue b!tching about mule deer management. As far as public land is concerned, I met, face to face, with Chris Stewart twice and Jason Chaffetz once, while they were here campaigning and spoke with them, in depth, about my support public land/private land and multiple use issues. Chaffetz threw in the towel years ago, Stewart did this spring so neither will be fighting you over public land vs private land again. I’ll still keep my hands up, in surrender, so you’re welcome to my place in the mule deer mud pit to wrestle with whatever Legislator takes Stewart’s place. I’m sure you have already been meeting with whomever replaced Chaffetz. I haven’t, I couldn’t even tell you who replaced him……. remember, I told you, I surrendered in 2014.

Saddle up, I wish you all the best.
 
2lumpy I just got really stoned and finally your posts are making sense.

Also fruity pebbles are legit! Get yourself a bowl today!
 

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