franken fish...
- Thread starter manny53
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elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,815
I have been watching this since college. In all honesty I see no issue with it.
The only real difference between this and normal salmon is a very small gene sequence that allow the salmon to eat and grow year round, thus instead of maturing to harvest able in say 2-3 years in the wild were looking at a 1-1.5 year turn around. Wild salmon tend to shut off growth for winter months.
When it comes down to it, we have a growing population, growing demands for food and at some point we will have to do more than traditional means of producing food. Studies show time and time again that GMO foods are safe and in many cases are as nutritious(if not more so) as the original.
Over the last several 100 years we have been selecting and manipulating the genes of all agriculturally produced products. If anyone thinks otherwise they are fools. Through selective breeding, cross pollination, gene sequencing, we have drastically changed the animals and food we are eating. this includes only breeding the best producing animals for our needs. Cows that produce more milk longer, steers that have more and better muscle growth, marbling, etc. Pig that have larger litters, Wheat with larger grain heads, corn with high pest resistance.
I look forwards to seeing this developed as it will help feed the people wile relieving stress on wild populations of fish we can harvest for sport.
The only real difference between this and normal salmon is a very small gene sequence that allow the salmon to eat and grow year round, thus instead of maturing to harvest able in say 2-3 years in the wild were looking at a 1-1.5 year turn around. Wild salmon tend to shut off growth for winter months.
When it comes down to it, we have a growing population, growing demands for food and at some point we will have to do more than traditional means of producing food. Studies show time and time again that GMO foods are safe and in many cases are as nutritious(if not more so) as the original.
Over the last several 100 years we have been selecting and manipulating the genes of all agriculturally produced products. If anyone thinks otherwise they are fools. Through selective breeding, cross pollination, gene sequencing, we have drastically changed the animals and food we are eating. this includes only breeding the best producing animals for our needs. Cows that produce more milk longer, steers that have more and better muscle growth, marbling, etc. Pig that have larger litters, Wheat with larger grain heads, corn with high pest resistance.
I look forwards to seeing this developed as it will help feed the people wile relieving stress on wild populations of fish we can harvest for sport.
eelgrass
Long Time Member
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- 31,523
My only concern is that these fish will escape and contaminate the wild stock. They say that won't happen because they will be hatched inland and only sterile females will be sold. (2:25 mark on the video). My guess is that at some point some greedy or careless employee will slip in the wrong fish. The price is too high if you screw it up.
Stick to plants and domestic animals.
Eel
Stick to plants and domestic animals.
Eel
elks96
Long Time Member
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- 3,815
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12 AT 10:28AM (MST)[p]What do you know about salmon? How do they spawn? They go back up the same river where they were born. The very fact that these fish are being raised inland in Panama means they will never end up in the rivers of the north west. This should be no more of a concern than the hatchery programs already going on in the salmon rivers here. How do you think a fish that is fertilized in the interior of Canada, then shipped to panama to hatch will end up in the rivers of the Northwest?
While I understand the concern We already produce salmon all through out the Northwest that do not spawn with native species...
Also the person talking about escaped fish is a restaurant owner. Not a scientist, not an expert in aquaculture but the owner of a restaurant who sells salmon at a premium price.
While I understand the concern We already produce salmon all through out the Northwest that do not spawn with native species...
Also the person talking about escaped fish is a restaurant owner. Not a scientist, not an expert in aquaculture but the owner of a restaurant who sells salmon at a premium price.
C
CDclub
Guest
>Why can't a fish be considered
>a domestic animal? We already
>have tillapia farms, catfish farms
>and yes salmon farms, why
>not farm these fish?
cause they ain't got hoofs....
>a domestic animal? We already
>have tillapia farms, catfish farms
>and yes salmon farms, why
>not farm these fish?
cause they ain't got hoofs....
eelgrass
Long Time Member
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- 31,523
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]"What do you know about salmon?"
I almost went salmon fishing once.
If you can GUARANTEE that no genetically modified salmon will EVER contaminate native stock, or somehow get released into the wild, go for it. Non native species somehow show up in rivers all the time. Sometimes with great harm. Once the cat is out of the bag there may be no turning back.
If salmon only spawn in the rivers they were hatched in, why sterilize them?
Here is a prime example of why I'm concerned
Escaped farmed salmon find home in Alaska
Over the past decade, hundreds of thousands of fish have escaped British Columbia and Washington state fish farms. But only in the last six years did they begin showing up in Alaska's freshwater streams. The first documented interloper was caught in Ward Creek near Ketchikan in August 1998, by sport fishermen who contacted Fish and Game officials, says Mecum.
"We don't believe that there's a real high likelihood of Atlantic salmon becoming established in Alaskan waters, but we want to make sure that we're vigilant, and we want to look and keep some kind of a monitoring program in place."
They probably said that about the Norway Rat too.
Eel
Edit: I forgot the link
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/04ASJ/08.27.04salmon-escape.html
I almost went salmon fishing once.
If you can GUARANTEE that no genetically modified salmon will EVER contaminate native stock, or somehow get released into the wild, go for it. Non native species somehow show up in rivers all the time. Sometimes with great harm. Once the cat is out of the bag there may be no turning back.
If salmon only spawn in the rivers they were hatched in, why sterilize them?
Here is a prime example of why I'm concerned
Escaped farmed salmon find home in Alaska
Over the past decade, hundreds of thousands of fish have escaped British Columbia and Washington state fish farms. But only in the last six years did they begin showing up in Alaska's freshwater streams. The first documented interloper was caught in Ward Creek near Ketchikan in August 1998, by sport fishermen who contacted Fish and Game officials, says Mecum.
"We don't believe that there's a real high likelihood of Atlantic salmon becoming established in Alaskan waters, but we want to make sure that we're vigilant, and we want to look and keep some kind of a monitoring program in place."
They probably said that about the Norway Rat too.
Eel
Edit: I forgot the link
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/04ASJ/08.27.04salmon-escape.html
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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- 37,428
I Know JACK about Salmon!
But I thought I knew enough to know they were Hatched rather than Born!
I also know if a Salmon Gulps my Lure/Bait He'll have his Fins Full!
So?
You think you wanna take My Hi- Capacity Magazines & Assault Rifles Huh?
Just Try taking My American Pride/Rights!
It's been a long hard ride
And I won't lose hope
This is still the place
That we all call home
But I thought I knew enough to know they were Hatched rather than Born!
I also know if a Salmon Gulps my Lure/Bait He'll have his Fins Full!
So?
You think you wanna take My Hi- Capacity Magazines & Assault Rifles Huh?
Just Try taking My American Pride/Rights!
It's been a long hard ride
And I won't lose hope
This is still the place
That we all call home
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-12
>AT 05:21?PM (MST)
>
>"What do you know about salmon?"
>
>
>I almost went salmon fishing once.
>
>
>If you can GUARANTEE that no
>genetically modified salmon will EVER
>contaminate native stock, or somehow
>get released into the wild,
>go for it. Non native
>species somehow show up in
>rivers all the time. Sometimes
>with great harm. Once the
>cat is out of the
>bag there may be no
>turning back.
>
>If salmon only spawn in the
>rivers they were hatched in,
>why sterilize them?
>
>Here is a prime example of
>why I'm concerned
>
>Escaped farmed salmon find home in
>Alaska
>
>Over the past decade, hundreds of
>thousands of fish have escaped
>British Columbia and Washington state
>fish farms. But only in
>the last six years did
>they begin showing up in
>Alaska's freshwater streams. The first
>documented interloper was caught in
>Ward Creek near Ketchikan in
>August 1998, by sport fishermen
>who contacted Fish and Game
>officials, says Mecum.
>
>"We don't believe that there's a
>real high likelihood of Atlantic
>salmon becoming established in Alaskan
>waters, but we want to
>make sure that we're vigilant,
>and we want to look
>and keep some kind of
>a monitoring program in place."
>
>
>They probably said that about the
>Norway Rat too.
>
>Eel
>
>Edit: I forgot the link
>
>http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/04ASJ/08.27.04salmon-escape.html
Agree with Eel 100%... Lot's of costly mistakes have happened with the introduction of new species to an existing eco system.. Hell even the biologist for fish and game have made numerous mistakes with this..
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
>AT 05:21?PM (MST)
>
>"What do you know about salmon?"
>
>
>I almost went salmon fishing once.
>
>
>If you can GUARANTEE that no
>genetically modified salmon will EVER
>contaminate native stock, or somehow
>get released into the wild,
>go for it. Non native
>species somehow show up in
>rivers all the time. Sometimes
>with great harm. Once the
>cat is out of the
>bag there may be no
>turning back.
>
>If salmon only spawn in the
>rivers they were hatched in,
>why sterilize them?
>
>Here is a prime example of
>why I'm concerned
>
>Escaped farmed salmon find home in
>Alaska
>
>Over the past decade, hundreds of
>thousands of fish have escaped
>British Columbia and Washington state
>fish farms. But only in
>the last six years did
>they begin showing up in
>Alaska's freshwater streams. The first
>documented interloper was caught in
>Ward Creek near Ketchikan in
>August 1998, by sport fishermen
>who contacted Fish and Game
>officials, says Mecum.
>
>"We don't believe that there's a
>real high likelihood of Atlantic
>salmon becoming established in Alaskan
>waters, but we want to
>make sure that we're vigilant,
>and we want to look
>and keep some kind of
>a monitoring program in place."
>
>
>They probably said that about the
>Norway Rat too.
>
>Eel
>
>Edit: I forgot the link
>
>http://seagrant.uaf.edu/news/04ASJ/08.27.04salmon-escape.html
Agree with Eel 100%... Lot's of costly mistakes have happened with the introduction of new species to an existing eco system.. Hell even the biologist for fish and game have made numerous mistakes with this..
Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
HorseCreek
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,242
"Studies show time and time again that GMO foods are safe and in many cases are as nutritious(if not more so) as the original" LMFAO
Elks, what big company do you work for? You really believe gmo foods don't have any connection with our health problems in this country?
Traditional >>>------->
Elks, what big company do you work for? You really believe gmo foods don't have any connection with our health problems in this country?
Traditional >>>------->
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-12 AT 10:51PM (MST)[p]For the record Im ok with GMO's as long as people are given a choice, which we are not right now because they don't have to tell us if its in the products we eat. But Money is power, soon we will be eating it and they will not even have to tell us. Here in California they we tried to pass a law saying, iff you sell GMO's you should have to tell people. Even with all the liberals backing it, the money over powered it, "and the fact that it was so poorly written that it would opened the door for B.S. lawsuits." The fact is its coming and let's hope we at least are given a choice. No matter what we do in the U.S. the rest of the world will do what they want and for all we know some of the fish could have already gotten out.
HorseCreek
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,242
LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-12 AT 09:24AM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-12
>AT 07:12?PM (MST)
>
>I edited this because I was
>rude. My apologies.
>I have not seen any
>studies that indicate that GMO
>foods are the root of
>our health problems. Food
>choices sure, GMO's? No
>evidence.
We know who your employer is bean! Why are they already banned in so many other countries?
Traditional >>>------->
>AT 07:12?PM (MST)
>
>I edited this because I was
>rude. My apologies.
>I have not seen any
>studies that indicate that GMO
>foods are the root of
>our health problems. Food
>choices sure, GMO's? No
>evidence.
We know who your employer is bean! Why are they already banned in so many other countries?
Traditional >>>------->
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,468
Fish are people too... They dont deserve to be raised in a pen and be eaten like cattle...
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
BeanMan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,920
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-31-12
>AT 09:24?AM (MST)
>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-12
>>AT 07:12?PM (MST)
>>
>>I edited this because I was
>>rude. My apologies.
>>I have not seen any
>>studies that indicate that GMO
>>foods are the root of
>>our health problems. Food
>>choices sure, GMO's? No
>>evidence.
>
>
>We know who your employer is
>bean! Why are they already
>banned in so many other
>countries?
>
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->
OK I'll bite, why are they banned in the EU and other countries? Please present some evidence. Colorado State University sure is a big, mean GMO loving employer!
>AT 09:24?AM (MST)
>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-12
>>AT 07:12?PM (MST)
>>
>>I edited this because I was
>>rude. My apologies.
>>I have not seen any
>>studies that indicate that GMO
>>foods are the root of
>>our health problems. Food
>>choices sure, GMO's? No
>>evidence.
>
>
>We know who your employer is
>bean! Why are they already
>banned in so many other
>countries?
>
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->
OK I'll bite, why are they banned in the EU and other countries? Please present some evidence. Colorado State University sure is a big, mean GMO loving employer!
HorseCreek
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,242
Why s it such a touchy subject bean? Why are they banned in other countries? Why is there a controversy at all with them? If they are so great like you believe...why dothey get such negative talk?
Traditional >>>------->
Traditional >>>------->
chasendeer
Active Member
- Messages
- 552
>Why s it such a touchy
>subject bean? Why are they
>banned in other countries? Why
>is there a controversy at
>all with them? If they
>are so great like you
>believe...why dothey get such negative
>talk?
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->
Horse,
I think that you should tell us why.
>subject bean? Why are they
>banned in other countries? Why
>is there a controversy at
>all with them? If they
>are so great like you
>believe...why dothey get such negative
>talk?
>
>
>Traditional >>>------->
Horse,
I think that you should tell us why.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,815
Same reason guns are banned. A fear of the unknown? In all honesty show us good scientific research that shows they are bad... Everyone wants to ban them on what ifs, and bus...
In all honesty a slight adjustment to a gene sequence that allows for a fish to put on weight year round is not a huge deal. Basically taking the part that makes a trash fish so successful and giving it to something yummy...
Fear and not rational thought is often a motivation for anything to get banned.
In all honesty a slight adjustment to a gene sequence that allows for a fish to put on weight year round is not a huge deal. Basically taking the part that makes a trash fish so successful and giving it to something yummy...
Fear and not rational thought is often a motivation for anything to get banned.
BeanMan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,920
HorseCreek,
The reason is simple, fear of the unknown. You'll maybe be old enough to remember that the jury that freed OJ Simpson rejected DNA as a viable form of proof. Those people were just ignorant, we all know that now. In 20 years you'll be wondering what you were so worried about. I'm sure you understand that when the human genome was cracked recently they found that we humans are an odd combination of billions of cell sequences, including some from fungus and bacteria, Even Manny53. So I guess now you'll tell me why adding one small sequence of bacteria to a plant so that it will ignore glyphosate is such a big deal, or perhaps the addition of Bacillus thurigiensis to a plant so that instead of having to spray caterpillers the plant can kill them (here's a hint, most plants contain large amounts of PDF's naturally). PDF, that's science talk for plant defense compounds. Just because you are unaware of them does not make them dangerous.
The reason is simple, fear of the unknown. You'll maybe be old enough to remember that the jury that freed OJ Simpson rejected DNA as a viable form of proof. Those people were just ignorant, we all know that now. In 20 years you'll be wondering what you were so worried about. I'm sure you understand that when the human genome was cracked recently they found that we humans are an odd combination of billions of cell sequences, including some from fungus and bacteria, Even Manny53. So I guess now you'll tell me why adding one small sequence of bacteria to a plant so that it will ignore glyphosate is such a big deal, or perhaps the addition of Bacillus thurigiensis to a plant so that instead of having to spray caterpillers the plant can kill them (here's a hint, most plants contain large amounts of PDF's naturally). PDF, that's science talk for plant defense compounds. Just because you are unaware of them does not make them dangerous.
HorseCreek
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,242
My point is they are relatively new. There isn't enough data to show they aren't bad. I never said they are the root of our health problems. You have to look at them as a variable though. Even the FDA isn't sure about them. I'm fine if others choose to eat them, I don't want to. I like to eat food that was created by god. Not food that was created and changed by man.
Bottom line is gmo's are backed by big money and people that don't give a rats azz about anyone's health. That's not even debatable.
In another twenty years you might also be wondering why you defend gmo's and the companies that push them.
Traditional >>>------->
Bottom line is gmo's are backed by big money and people that don't give a rats azz about anyone's health. That's not even debatable.
In another twenty years you might also be wondering why you defend gmo's and the companies that push them.
Traditional >>>------->
tylercreek2
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,921
>>>> Not food that was created and changed by man.<<<<
good grief
good grief
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,815
how so? Only because one can happen faster than the other. Really the end out come of any breeding process is to produce offspring better than the parents. All this fish has is the ability to produce the same growth hormone year round as opposed to only 3-4 months a year. As a result it grows faster. Nothing else about the fish is different.
Man has always selected and manipulated food sources... Just with technology we can do it in shorter time...
Of course I would suspect everyone here against GMO to also be against stem cell research, the human genome project, DNA testing for a variety of genetically inherited diseases etc....
Simply put fish are a great way to feed the worlds growing populations, the have the highest feed to weight gain ratios in the agriculture world and in this case they have found the ability to help an already yummy fish put on weight 12 months a year instead of just 3.
Man has always selected and manipulated food sources... Just with technology we can do it in shorter time...
Of course I would suspect everyone here against GMO to also be against stem cell research, the human genome project, DNA testing for a variety of genetically inherited diseases etc....
Simply put fish are a great way to feed the worlds growing populations, the have the highest feed to weight gain ratios in the agriculture world and in this case they have found the ability to help an already yummy fish put on weight 12 months a year instead of just 3.
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,815
They are not devoid of nutrients... You mean they are iceberg lettuce?
Sure they may be a little different than wild salmon that does not really mean they are that much different. Heck even in wild salmon populations you can see a pretty good variety in the fish depending on where they live, food sources, etc...
Sure they may be a little different than wild salmon that does not really mean they are that much different. Heck even in wild salmon populations you can see a pretty good variety in the fish depending on where they live, food sources, etc...
BeanMan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,920
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-13
>AT 11:42?AM (MST)
>
>Cross breeding two strains of the
>same species and splicing genes
>from two different species are
>entirely different things.
>
>The mountains, not the hills.
No Kidding, just trying to get the point out that God did not create any of the plant foods that we are now eating, they have evolved through hybrid cross selection. so if yuou only going to eat the food that God created you will be somewhat limited.
>AT 11:42?AM (MST)
>
>Cross breeding two strains of the
>same species and splicing genes
>from two different species are
>entirely different things.
>
>The mountains, not the hills.
No Kidding, just trying to get the point out that God did not create any of the plant foods that we are now eating, they have evolved through hybrid cross selection. so if yuou only going to eat the food that God created you will be somewhat limited.
This is interesting. The Triploid rainbow was developed in 1995 and has since been put into different western states. It has three sets of chromosomes instead of two. They learned how to genetically change them so that they have three sets of chromosomes and can not reproduce, thus sterile.
