fustration with new dogs.

[BigSimps]

I have had my two wire hair short hair mix pups for about two months now, and I'm having problems with them when I'm out walking in fields looking for birds, (just trying to get some exposure to birds). They just seem to walk behind me most of the time, or just play with each other, don't do much hunting. They have had some exposure to being by birds (pheasants), but there still not making much progress. In the past mouth I have takin them out to fields about 1-3 times a week.
I have never had dogs before, and dont have much experience with training. I just try and do the basics stuff with them ( sit, stay, etc..), and of course use pheasant wings to teach them to fetch, and to find the bird. I have thought about buying some live birds (pheasants) and try some training that way. I know there stil young and dogs learn at different levels and speed just like us, but I could use some training myself. If you could shoot me a pointer or advice it would be great thanks.

 

[BIGJOHNT]

Thats the problem with two pups. They are playing with each other instead of bonding with you and learning. You need to take them out one at a time. I thought this might be a problem for you when I saw your first post.
Is there a dog club in your area ? I joined a local club when I was training my pup . It was a great time and got to work with a pro dog trainer that helped me get my dog started.
If not , get a few books and videos.
A well train dog is a blessing. Dont let them start bad habits and always be able to give a correction when giving a command . Like a check cord ect.
Good luck and enjoy them , a good dog never lives long enough !

 

[Cornhusker]

I always work my new pup with an older dog they model the older dogs behavior and will get the appropriate distance in front of you.

 

[onemoreridge]

+1 on what BIGJOHNT said, taking each one out by itself, they need to want to be with you, not with its buddy. Take them one at a time and don't worry to much about them hunting and finding birds when they are this young, just make the experience of being out fun for them. I would not introduce them to live birds this young either, maybe just get a pheasant wing and hide it in light cover and help the dogs one at a time find the wings and praise them to death when they find it. If they don't bring it back to you or run off thats fine don't stop praising them when they are this young. Also don't give a command that you can't enforce.

 

[Shummy]

They are just pups. That's what pups do. I work two pups together on a daily basis, its not a big deal. They do need time alone, but there will come a time when they will gain confindence and venture out on their own. Let them be pups, don't worry about them being solid, ground covering bird finders yet.

 

[plainsman08]

work them seperate and let a pup be a pup

"In the breast of every meat hunter there beats the heart of a secret, frustrated trophy hunter."

 

[ishootaRUM300]

I am with cornhusker if you can take them out with an older trained dog they will want to play with the older dog. They will think they are having fun and yet they are learning. They will be trying to keep up with the older dog and then maybe come across bird scent and start hunting it. They will end up hearing the gunshot and start to make the conection that the gunshot is a good thing. It is going to take time.

 

[nickman]

They don't like you and "your" agenda......yet.

You have to teach them that you are a REALLY fun guy to be out with and the thing that is most "fun" is finding birds for you and seeing how happy you are when they do it right.

You are going to hunt them together so you need to train them together. If you only want to work one you shouldn't have got 2 of them.

There are a million opinions on how to train dogs. I don't care how anyone goes about it, but if the dog dosen't like you............


"Fathom the hypocracy of a Government that requires every citizen to prove that they are insured.....but not everyone must prove that they are a citizen"

 

[nontypical]

I had reservations about training 2 at the same time myself.Once they got slightly older than your dogs,it seemed like they kind of fed off of each other.One would see the other getting all the praise,so he or she would emulate the deed that got the other the praise.At this point,it seemed like the training got easier for all of us.But then,all dogs are different.Like Nickman said,all bets are off if they don't like ya!

 

[drahthaar]

Hard to imagine a couple puppies not liking you as long as you are not over-doing the dicipline. Dogs love the one that gives them food and attention, period.

I think you need to take them to the field crated separately. Take one out at a time for some walks. Then at the end of the time let them run and romp together, just for some fun. One thing I would do is get a dead pheasant and do some "drags". Drag the bird a couple hundred yards, get the pup out and let it get on the drag line and find the bird. Praise, praise, praise. Sounds like there is a bit of a disconnect there of what you are doing out there. They need to be alone on this portion so they can concentrate on the task at hand.

Yes, puppies are puppies, but they still should be showing some desire to find game. This is a bit of a problem for me if they are not, I start questioning parents and breeders. It's much easier to reign in a big running, heavy-on-desire type dog, than to get a "boot-licker" to get out and hunt a ways(which is the whole point of a pointing dog).

Will they point wings on a fishing pole? Get some pigeons and get them pointing in the yard. Get a bird feeder, get some song birds around your house, they should be pointing them on the ground too. My dogs were pointing at 7 weeks, "stalking" songbirds in the yard, etc.

I have not trained two at once like you are doing though. It was always enough to just get one dog to really do what I wanted.

 

[drahthaar]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-12 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]Another thing, I don't know your feeding schedule. I feed my dogs in the morning and the evening. No self feeders. I would also not feed the dogs before a training walk. They should be a little hungry, this "turns the nose on".

I agree, once they are a little older, some competition will ensue. But now, I think you need to tighten things up, less goofing around until they get the fact that going to the field means birds and hunting.

 

[Shummy]

The fact is that these are mixed breed dogs. Often with mixed breeds they inherit the worst of both breeds, and not the best, even though both breeds happen to be bird dogs. Sad, but fact none the less. It's also possible to have them turn out great, but that is the exception, and not the rule. The pups may turn out great, but the best chance of a great bird dog is to pick a pup from a reputable breeder with pure breed, proven stock.

 

[BPKHunter]

Well first let me praise you for taking the dogs out on a regular basis to "introduce" them to the world of birds. You are getting a lot of advice here, some of it very good. One recurring theme you are hearing is that it is harder to bond with two pups, as they bond with each other. I disagree that, just because you will have to hunt them later together you have to train them together now. Yes you want to make time in the field fun, but I always wanted to focus what that fun meant. Fun meant a time to escape home, explore the world, and be with dad/mom. Think it through logically. You won't be able to stop them from having fun, playing, and bonding with each other, but you can do some things to control it. For example, you could kennel them seperately during the day to limit the amount of play time. For now, only give them so much uncontrolled play time. Why? Well because you want them hungry for some other sources of fun. The other sources should be 1) Trips into the field with you 2) Play time with your family and you(bonding). After they are old enough to know what the field means and what is expected then these controls can be eliminated. While in the field, I agree with the others that having fun is number one, but you want to encourage them to run and explore. So, logically, what you can do is simply to give them no feedback when they are behind you or even next to you. No love, encouragement, or negative feedback. Simply ignore them. When they get bored and move off, then start moving again and you can slowly start giving encouragement when they are in the field. With some time and they routinely leave you with ease, start giving command "go hunt" as they run off, especially when you have scent down for them. And, do this with only one dog at a time and slowly integrate them, especially with you. If you have a wife and she doesn't hunt them maybe have her occasionally walk them together and see how they react.

You will be amazed, if they have the instinct it will manifest itself. Don't be discouraged yet. But, don't be fooled into thinking any dog can be forced into being a hunter, some dogs simply are NOT hunters.

 

[BigSimps]

Hey thanks guys, you have all been a big help. I'll take what ya all have to say and try it. I know they are still pups, and there still learning. I have gained a lot of patients over the past few months from the's pups. I do feel like they are boding to me more and more, I have been trying to just take one out at a time, when i go out to the field. after I take both of them out i take them out together, and kind of let them be pups.

 

[wvbowhunterinalaska]

I agree with Husker, work them with an older dog who knows what is going on and as the old saying goes "Monkey See, Monkey Do". I used hunt, train, and breed Treeing Walker coonhounds back in WV as a teenager. I remember some nights having as many as 4 pups with our old dog and if it HAD NOT been for that old hound of ours, we would have had to hunted less pups. He was the glue that held them together, one steady constant with the total chaos of having 3 to 4 pups that ranged between 6 to 18 months old. If you don't have a good broke dog to train them with, my suggestion is to put the word out that youu need some assistance and try to horse trade or barter to get your pups squared away with training. Best of luck to you.
WVBOWAK