Given up on Oregon Non resident draw - I need your points

Willametteriveroutlaw

Active Member
Messages
405
I need to find someone with 10 points to apply with our party.

The only thing I can offer is financial compensation as we have some private ground locked up that I can't get a LOP tag for my BIL on.

The other option would be to purchase a MC 1st season outfitter tag.
 
I just need a little more information here. Are you looking at deer or elk and where are you wanting to go. Is the point lender invited to hunt your private ground? Are you a non resident? Your screen name doesn't go with your post title. What's BIL & MC stand for? ,Murders Creek? This could be a good deal for someone. Points are gold and when they are gone they are gone. I will be curious if this pans out for you. I have a friend in California that has a stack of points. He drew a deer tag for the trout creeks two years ago when it was on fire. He tried to turn the tag back in to no avail. He swears he will never spend another dime in Oregon. He might be able to hook you up.
 
I to am interested in exactly what you are talking about I have 10 non resident points for deer pm me what the details are and maybe we can make a deal of some sort.
 
>I just need a little more
>information here. Are you looking
>at deer or elk and
>where are you wanting to
>go. Is the point lender
>invited to hunt your private
>ground? Are you a non
>resident? Your screen name doesn't
>go with your post title.
>What's BIL & MC stand
>for? ,Murders Creek? This could
>be a good deal for
>someone. Points are gold and
>when they are gone they
>are gone. I will be
>curious if this pans out
>for you. I have a
>friend in California that has
>a stack of points. He
>drew a deer tag for
>the trout creeks two years
>ago when it was on
>fire. He tried to turn
>the tag back in to
>no avail. He swears he
>will never spend another dime
>in Oregon. He might be
>able to hook you up.
>

Sorry for not clarifying, I am looking for Elk points. Unfortunately, the private is maxed out with hunters now although I could probably get someone on a smaller piece down the road.

I'm a resident, but my dad and brother in law are not and they are going to hunt with me off my points. (I'm burning 12) they each have one and if I can get 10 more it would put our party with 6 point average going into the draw..
 
Since you have even 1 NR you will be limited to the NR pool which you probably know. but if a Murderers Creek #1 is what you're after it didn't exceed the NR pool last year so the draw odds are the same as a resident. you can draw it with 4 points and you have 5 so I don't know what your problem is.

If you're not talking Murderers Creek you need to be more clear if you want someone to apply with you.


Oregon screws the NR over there is no question about that. I do 90% of my hunting out of state and I'm embarrassed at how we treat the NR hunter when I'm enjoying their hospitality.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
+1 to what 440 said. The non-residents get hosed. That's why my non-res friend quit. I think many have followed suit. The fee increase with the non-res tag caps is to much for most to bare.
 
On the 2nd season you might be right, you said in your first post you wanted 1st season. still you should have a shot at 2nd with 5 points.


I have hunted that unit for years, I've actually done better in 1st than 2nd.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
>On the 2nd season you might
>be right, you said in
>your first post you wanted
>1st season. still you
>should have a shot at
>2nd with 5 points.
>
>
>I have hunted that unit for
>years, I've actually done better
>in 1st than 2nd.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends

I want first season, if you look at 246X no one in the 4 point group drew last year, Thats where we would be with out adding 10 points to our group.
 
You said you have 12 and the other guys have 1 each, that's 14 which gives you 4.66 each and that rounds up to 5.

With 5 points you have a 67% chance, or you could go with a 2nd season with a 100% chance. if the stats are correct and I don't think they are .

I really question those stats, I think someone crossed their wires. I know for a fact an ochoco 1st is harder to draw than a 2nd, and he has it bassackwards. just like I'm 99% sure he does on Murderers Creek where he says 1st is harder to draw than second , 2nd is harder because it a hair tag. it's always been that way .

You have 5 points if what you say is correct, when the tag draw book comes out which will be any day now look at it and I think you're going to have a pleasant surprise.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
No they don't. if it's .51 or greater they round up, if it's .50 or less they round down.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-14 AT 06:09PM (MST)[p]>You said you have 12 and
>the other guys have 1
>each, that's 14 which gives
>you 4.66 each and that
>rounds up to 5.
>
>With 5 points you have a
>67% chance, or you could
>go with a 2nd season
>with a 100% chance. if
>the stats are correct and
>I don't think they are
>.
>
>I really question those stats, I
>think someone crossed their wires.
>I know for a fact
>an ochoco 1st is harder
>to draw than a 2nd,
>and he has it bassackwards.
>just like I'm 99% sure
>he does on Murderers Creek
>where he says 1st is
>harder to draw than second
>, 2nd is harder because
>it a hair tag. it's
>always been that way .
>
>
>You have 5 points if what
>you say is correct, when
>the tag draw book comes
>out which will be any
>day now look at it
>and I think you're going
>to have a pleasant surprise.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends

Just the same, I'd rather not take the chance. This year is the only year that the ranch we will be hunting will not be guided on for the next 4 or 5.
 
When the tag draw book comes out I think you'll find it's not that risky. more points would be great if you can find that guy, but you will need some luck there.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
If you want to know where you stand, quit looking at odds web sites and odds books and look at the real numbers. Your contention that nobody drew 246x with 4 points is incorrect.
 
The book is real numbers. for the last few years all residents it with 4 , most with 3 drew 246x. they claim the NR quota won't effect this hunts odds. they hit it pretty well on the hunts I watch so I expect they're right.

Even if they're wrong 5 points is almost a sure thing.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-14 AT 12:31PM (MST)[p]I have 15 points for elk and might be willing to do something. I will send a pm
 
I have 10 across the board. I haven't applied in OR since they doubled the nonresident price years ago...I would give them away if I could, but refuse to buy a license at that price and support the state that gives only 5% to nonresidents and even that pittance gets cherry picked in the guide draw first....
 
Fudd, I don't blame you one bit it is a hose job on the NR. all I can say is it's wrong and I'm sorry we have so many morons here in this state who don't see that.

That said I'd suggest you use your elk points , you can draw some decent hunts you'd have a good time on. as for your deer points, you might be as well off to let those go .












Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-14 AT 08:03AM (MST)[p]This pretty much sums it up! NON-RES get the shaft!


Big Game Lottery Fraud
What are the odds of that?


Now it's all in fine print if you're a pretty good reader and search it all out with the help of your attorney. But don't forget to invite your nerdy buddy and the mathematician to this party. Oh, and remember you will need a statistician too.

So what kind of get-together is this I am talking about? Well let me tell you, it's hunting season and time to put in for the Oregon non-resident big game controlled hunt raffle. What could be so hard about that you might ask? The proclamation shows the various hunts you can put in for and includes an easy to follow form that you can fax, mail or email. Heck you can even pay with a credit card which is way easier than certified funds like the olden days in some states.

This is how I interpret it so let's break it down into some of its simplest elements and see how we come out. Let's say we are a trophy mule deer hunter and have decided to hunt in Oregon for the first time. Imagine we are rich enough to pay the fairly high price tag Oregon puts on his pursuit but not rich enough to hire an outfitter. Now remember this is just how I read it and you should probably check it out for yourself and arrive at your own conclusions.

First off it's important to understand that only 5% of the total tags available can go to non-residents. Wow! That seems like a pretty low number, and it is when you figure it's about ? of the amount of tags offered by adjoining states. If you think this is bad just hold on, it gets worse.

Next you have to account for 50% of those non-resident tags going to outfitters, now we are down to 2.5% of the total tags available being accessible to non-resident do-it-yourselfers. Pretty bad odds, but it gets worse.

75% of those non-resident tags go to guys that have applied in the past and have higher preference points than you do, and there are a bunch of those guys. Now we are down to 0.625% of the total tags available being accessible to first time, non-resident, non-guided, non-point holders. That's awfully bad! But get the duck tape out for keeping your head together, it gets worse yet!

If the total number of tags is fairly low for a specific hunt unit there is actually a zero percent chance that a first time applicant can draw. In fact for 2010 it appears that over 90% of the available hunt units had a statistical probability of Zero (0%) chance of draw for first time applicants (Where does it say that in the regs?). The chance of getting hit by lightening or winning a Powerball lottery is much better than zero. If I had any sense I'd be getting upset by about now.

Alright but that's not an absolute zero, you still could draw out the 0.625% on the remaining 8% which ups the odds overall to a whopping half of 1% (That's half of a tag for every one hundred). Oh no! I think Oregon round ? of a tag down to?you guess it, ZERO!

To put it another way a first time non-resident applicant could unknowingly apply for hunts that statistically he never in his lifetime can have any chance of winning in this lottery unless the high point guys in front of him stop going for the good hunts. For some reason the word ?pyramid? keeps popping into my head. I am feeling awfully sorry for the low point and now point guys on the bottom. Of course this happens only if you do the research to find out which units I am talking about.

You might think that the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife would be kind enough to tell us about these really terrible odds before we bought in. Perhaps we should be notified that statistically we would never live long enough to win some of the hunts that are offered. Maybe they badly need the thousands of applicants? $148.50 non-refundable fee for the big game lottery. Bonanza! That sounds like big business. I am surely not saying anything bad about the O.D.F.W. I am confident they are a swell bunch. Clearly they have had my support for many years, and a dear friend of mine works there. Perhaps the odds are just so complex it's too tough to figure.

Oh yeah, I forgot that we are trophy hunters and the best hunts tend to have the lowest number of tags, and these available units probably don't have trophies. So what is such a great tag worth? In 2010 the auction tag for mulies sold for up to $33,500. Now that's a lottery prize worth putting in for!

Okay, I am in against all odds, after all its worth it right??? It's 10 years later I have 10 points in this progressive lottery. So here I am, it's 2011 and I want to hunt just one awesome spot in Oregon that my grandpa used to hunt. Unit 168A located in Trout Creek Mountains. I call in to the O.D.F.W. and darn, the outfitter gets the tag this year. In fact, approximately _% of hunts listed in the proclamation have no tags available for a non-guided, non-resident no matter how many points he has. There simply is no prize in this lottery if you happen to choose the wrong units.

My second choice is my dad?s favorite spot hunt number 170M, and this year, yahoo! There is a tag available. I come to find out that there is quite a bit of past interest in this spot; in fact, based upon past published statistics there are 12 guys wanting this tag with more points than me and another 26 guys with the same points as me. I figure I have to live 24 more years until I have a 1 in 26 shot. Heck, I won't live that long! Just imagine? the guys in front of me could turn vegetarian. They could change their minds or they could become disgusted with this process and go for a low quality hunt. Not much chance of any of that happening as they are now vested for thousands of dollars in the Oregon progressive raffle. Oh, but I forgot to factor in attrition? just how does one calculate if I might outlive the big points guys? I should start taking better care of myself!

Good luck to you all,
Author: Happy By Nature (pen-name)
(Full-time Optimist & Part-time Hunter)


P.S. In year 2009 31 non-residents put in for hunt (#170M) which had zero non-guided tags. Do ya think they knew the odds?
 
Well, it seems you've given it some thought. and you're pretty much right.

If it makes you feel any better the Trout Creek deer hunt isn't worth a crap anymore anyway. so at least you're not missing out on much.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
There is unlimited deer tags for Trout Creek if you put in for the trad hunt. Doesn't matter what time of year, hunting season, or weapon you will not like what you see. Unless you know that unit like your own backyard you will not have a good hunt. Numerous other units are over the counter for rifle and archery. Trophies can be had in all those units if you have the connections or spend enough time scouting and hunting in them. Spend some time searching all hunting forums, the internet in general, all the different record books, call numerous state & federal biologist, etc... and you may find another unit and specific area in that unit that could be a great hunt. Good luck.
 
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