Gov sheep tag update

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
10,637
Thought a bunch about the whole fiasco. The whole incident pizzes me off, but a biologist in another unit getting fingered seriously pissed me off. So, I called Cedar City. I called to thank them for what they do. I called to tell them I thought them getting scapegoated was chicken shizz. Ended up talking to a supervisor, and I let her know I appreaciate what her people do, that they don't get rich, and then have to deal with guys like WLH putting them in bad spots. She was appreciative to say the least.

I then called S.E. office and thanked them, since there seems to be some confusion now as to who WLH actually called(I know, imagine that).
I personally think those folks in the field do a hell of a job, or at least try to. Most of that, I believe is squandered by the politicos in the headquarters in SLC, but thats my opinion.

If this whole episode of blaming the biologist bugs you, call and thank them, offer them some support.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I talked to someone that works for the dwr. They said I can indeed hunt the surrounding units of the general season unit in actually drew for! I can't wait for sat.
hornkiller.jpg
 
Hoss, I have to agree that the dwr personnel often get an unwarranted bad rap, due to no fault of their own. I know what kind of piss poor pay they get and pretty much every one of them has a college degree and most all of the biologists have graduate credentials. I know that doesn't always mean they are capable, but the majority of them are very good at what they do, but get little credit.

I applaud you for giving them Kudos. I do the same thing every chance I get.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-16 AT 08:30PM (MST)[p]I would rhink whomever the DWR person who the BS info should be held accountable for this. I plan on submitting a grama request to see who it was. If this was a normal hunter without the pull of WLH they would have been charged within a day if not hours and most likely be oaying a huge fine along with other punitive damages.

I am not satified with a OOPS sorry BS excuse that someone tild them they could. Its like asking the lot boy at a car dealer if it was ok to take a truck off the lot then when caught get off on the BS excuse..sorry officer but the lot boy from across the street it was ok
 
If, if, it's like, if, what if, maybe, could have, I think, if, so if, how, if, what if.


What if a boxer got knocked out and spent the next week crying about the opponent cheated?

What if all the bitter hateful whiners finally actually quit blaming other people for their lifeless misery?
 
Lifeless misery? Hey pig boy, kinda like how you spend countless hours arguing about things you know nothing about with people who do. Not to mention your obsession with Hawkeye. That sounds like lifeless misery to me.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-16 AT 09:40PM (MST)[p]Gosh Tri...do you have a life other than posting trash and doing taxidermy for poachers? Oh ya defending them for being....poachers.

Lol you win the troll award for a lifetime of being...a troll

A little man sitting behind his computer safe and sound protected by distance from those who he insults on a daily basis. You give Texas a bad name i would think California is more your radical BS syle.
 
Tri, was pointed out that no one in texas will know about this. I aim to remedy that. Is texas hunting talk foruma good place to start, or do you have other recommends?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Don't worry about it too much Hoss. Triple team fingers himself at least thrice daily and he is ok....um bad example. I guess it all boils down to his concept of asking any state employee being king's x. He used the surgeons janitor for his sex change and while it ain't much to look at, his boyfriend enjoys it.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
Last night I watched the news. A "father" in Ogden Utah made his five year old daughter sleep all night outside on the porch of a building alone.

Meanwhile on Monster muleys yall sat up all night hoping for an outfitter's business to suffer and dreaming up insults for a Texan.

I like how yall claim I came on here and insulted yall while in reality I did no such thing. All I did was insert logic into your day.

SO yall can keep on claiming Wade Lemon needs a spot in your jail and forget about the little girl who doesn't stand a chance. Maybe yall would start caring if she had horns and you were all fighting for a tag to hunt her.
 
I listen to The Micheal Berry Show out of Houston every day, lets not throw stones.

So, tri, we let u troll around in here, where should i troll in texas?

Last, since you watch our news, call our dwr and thank them


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Actually Hossblur you assumed I watched your news. In fact that poor child was on our news here.

You are welcome in Texas anywhere anytime.

I am not going to call your DWR and thank them. That is patronizing and behavior exhibited when one thinks he is smarter than or better than the receiver. I am not going to involve myself in that. Feel free if you must. It really doesn't surprise me coming from you.

So since you are obviously aware of current events there, how is the little girl doing?
 
I had a Sportsman's Sheep tag in 2010. Desert Sheep.
The previous years the Virgin River Unit rotated between the Sportsman's, and the Governor's tag holder, for hunting.

I received NO notification either way, I just got my tag in the mail. I looked through the regs, and found no such statement.
So, I called the FG. I spoke with 4 or 5 biologist. I get 4 or 5 different stories.
The one story that I got, that was constant? You better find out from the top guy, because we are just stating opinion. You cannot go off what we say. OK, Thanks!

It ended up not mattering, as a new unit opened and I did not hunt the Virgin River Unit.

I am drawing no conclusions from this experience, just sharing it with you.

So, Tri, did you spend the day today helping out the down trodden?:)
 
I am going to spend my day trying to make sure five families continue to get fed. I may also try and make sure some internet zealots don't try and ruin a buddies life up in Utah.

So when they say "top guy" who are they talking about? The governor?

Congrats on your sheep hunt.
 
There is nothing wrong with calling and asking questions. However, when in doubt read the applicable rules. The Big Game Guidebook is prepared to provide general information to the thousands of hunters in the field. I personally would not rely on the Big Game Guidebook to understand the nuances and rules of the one and only governor's sheep tag, which was purchased for tens of thousands of dollars. I would start by reading the applicable rules for that tag. Additionally, if I hired a local guide, I would make sure that my guide was aware of and understood the applicable rules. It seems like that is part of the reason why guides are hired -- to help comply with the local rules and laws.

-Hawkeye-
 
>I listen to The Micheal Berry
>Show out of Houston every
>day, lets not throw stones.
>
>
>So, tri, we let u troll
>around in here, where should
>i troll in texas?
>
>Last, since you watch our news,
>call our dwr and thank
>them
>
>
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

Soooooo, how is trolling Texas going?
 
>>I listen to The Micheal Berry
>>Show out of Houston every
>>day, lets not throw stones.
>>
>>
>>So, tri, we let u troll
>>around in here, where should
>>i troll in texas?
>>
>>Last, since you watch our news,
>>call our dwr and thank
>>them
>>
>>
>>"The only thing that stops a
>>bad guy with a gun
>>is a good guy with
>>a gun"
>
>Soooooo, how is trolling Texas going?
>

Texas hunting forum, not as fun as i hoped, but, it gave them boys some knowledge. Didnt take them long to find Tri beautiful pic of the ram. They even posted my making fun of the flag sticker.

In all honesty, hopefully texas guys will run their mouths, more light on the dwr chiefs, the better. Thats about all that can be done, public shaming, after all the fun back and forth, in the end i think everyone agrees this hunt was shady, via guide, or dwr, or both.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Definitely an unnecessary cluster.

Yeah. Those guys had some fun with my 12 wives, and most defended the hunter, but they could see it too. I got no complaints with them, it was what it was, they were cool. It is sad, i have a daughter i would love to get involved, this pretty lady, and big sheep should have been a great thing, not something thats hidden now. Texas dudes are cool, the ones i know are pretty proud of the state, but good dudes. Cant explain Tri, but he is a talented taxi, cant take that, just obnoxious as hell.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Who's "everyone"? You mean the dozen guys on the internet??? Public shaming???? I think you would be surprised how unashamed the involved parties are.

So you wanted to thank the DWR but now publicly shame them. I hope they can see both sides of your face.

I don't know if I could continue working if I found out a dozen people on an internet forum talked a bunch of trash regarding something they know almost nothing about and included me in it.
 
> I
>think you would be surprised
>how unashamed the involved parties
>are.
>

And that speaks volumes. Tri I bet they would like it a lot if you STFU. I know others would.
 
"I don't know if I could continue working if I found out a dozen people on an internet forum talked a bunch of trash regarding something they know almost nothing about ......."

That is all you do, talk trash about something you know almost nothing about!

Rut
 
Tristate posted: "I think you would be surprised how unashamed the involved parties are."

Have the hunter and guide put the trophy photos back up on facebook and their website yet? You know, the traditional money shots with the posse and company logos that typically follow the kill. I would love to see some additional photos of that beautiful ram. Unlike elkassassin, I am less interested in the bikini photos of the hunter. Now that the dust blown over, post em up.

-Hawkeye-
 
Tri you were watching the new about a kid here in Ogden left on the porch all night???? Send us a link. What stations do you watch in Tx?
 
Deerlove,

I don't know the linc I actually watched it on one of those old fashioned things called a television. I think it was channel 2 here. I know it was one of the network local news channels. Caught it after I quit watching Monday night football.

I hope she's OK and hopefully she at least has a mommy that loves her.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-16 AT 12:46PM (MST)[p]I think we should see if Tri / Hoss can get on TV tomorrow night for a debate instead of the candidates.You guys are gold when you argue.



-Cass
 
So they are running a poll over there on "worst intro ever", kill an illegal sheep, no biggie, tease them about the flag sticker, you become their TRISTATE!

Never got an award before, Tri, hurry and go vote!!



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Better watch it again Tris, no girl was left out all night. LOL But hey don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Tristate said:
"Last night I watched the news. A "father" in Ogden Utah made his five year old daughter sleep all night outside on the porch of a building alone."

Do you have any proof that any of this ever happened or are you just assuming? Do you even have a picture? Yet you want to hang all of us out to dry because we seem to care more about a sheep than a little girl who you know nothing about other than what has been shared on the news. We all know how unreliable the mainstream news is these days yet you fall for the sensationalized version of this story.

I'm just trying to make you stop and think before you try to ruin one man's life.
 
Read the deer hunt story in the trib. Talked about there being biologist notes online about the unit for which the tag is for, as well as a map of the unit. Thank gawd, Wlh wont have to call the northern unit to find out about the pauns, there will be biologist notes right there for him. Saves a lot of time, and cell minutes.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Where is your proof tristate? Or are you just making your won assumptions because it was on t.v. and not the Internet!
hornkiller.jpg
 
So post up the true story. I love being educated. I would think these crusaders care a lot about child welfare.
 
>prove somebody done something wrong.
>
>
>
>https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?
>q=tbn:ANd9GcTbuN9y_4TBRUmbo7ecLvQJ520lxL3j5GUMF-74vsxtI0eN_bj_

No, wade only talks to his "friends" that write him checks. I did talk to the actual biologist though. How was goat hunting?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Whats the link, it gives me a 404 error?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-16
>AT 08:18?PM (MST)

>
>says who?
>
>
>
bigstock-Texas-Map-Flag-D-Shape-51246736-2.jpg



Looks like a pic of north Mexico, that it? Was hopin it was a goat pic

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>Whats the link, it gives me
>a 404 error?
>
>

Just another dumbass picture of a Texan blankie.



So HuntinTexas, why havent yiu answered my PM? You ask me for the skinny on Elkassassin but you cant answer a simple question?
 
HuntingTexas-

You didn't answer my questions on the other thread so I thought I'd post here here. I'm guessing you've been busy filling state-wide governor's tags.

Welcome to monstermuleys.com. I assume that you must be a friend/family member of Ms. Waldrip? Perhaps her husband? What is your view of this situation? Do you understand why Utah sportsmen are frustrated? Who do you think is responsible for this "mistake"?

But most importantly, what did elkassassin do to ruffle your feathers? Personally, I think he has been on pretty good behavior. Since you are new to this forum, I will just tell you that he takes some getting used to but his warped sense of humor will grow on you over time.

-Hawkeye-
 
>>Whats the link, it gives me
>>a 404 error?
>>
>>
>
>Just another dumbass picture of a
>Texan blankie.
>
>
>
>So HuntinTexas, why havent yiu answered
>my PM? You ask me
>for the skinny on Elkassassin
>but you cant answer a
>simple question?

What they wantin to know NVB?










[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
 
Too many 'sheep Tag' Threads going & I missed this one!











[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
 
FYI, all regular folk that merely buy general tags and would like to see laws equally enforced are "knuckleheads" according to Lemon.

"These knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spit-balling these people. Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat" for habitat conservation, he said (Lemon).
 
>prove somebody done something wrong.
>https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?
>q=tbn:ANd9GcTbuN9y_4TBRUmbo7ecLvQJ520lxL3j5GUMF-74vsxtI0eN_bj_

Rule #1- (read subsection vi)

R657-41-2. Definitions.

(1) Terms used in this rule are defined in Section 23-13-2. (2) In addition:

(a) "Area Conservation Permit" means a permit issued for a specific unit or hunt area for a conservation permit species, and may include an extended season, or legal weapon choice, or both, beyond the season except area turkey permits are valid during any season option and are valid in any open area during general season hunt.

(i) Area Conservation permits issued for limited entry units are not valid on cooperative wildlife management units.

(b) "Conservation Organization" means a nonprofit chartered institution, foundation, or association founded for the purpose of promoting the protection and preservation of one or more conservation permit species and has established tax exempt status under Internal Revenue Code, Section 501C-3 as amended.

(c) "Conservation Permit" means any harvest permit authorized by the Wildlife Board and issued by the division for purposes identified in Section R657-41-1.

(d) "Conservation Permit Species" means the species for which conservation permits may be issued and includes deer, elk, pronghorn, moose, bison, Rocky Mountain goat, Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep, desert bighorn sheep, wild turkey, cougar, and black bear.

(e) "Multi-Year Conservation Permit" means a conservation permit awarded to an eligible conservation organization pursuant to R657-41-7 for three consecutive years to sell, market or otherwise use as an aid in wildlife related fund raising activities.

(f) "Retained Revenue" means 60% of the revenue raised by a conservation organizations from the sale of conservation permits that the organization retains for eligible projects, excluding interest earned thereon.

(g) "Special Antelope Island State Park Conservation Permit" means a permit authorized by the Wildlife Board to hunt bighorn sheep or mule deer on Antelope Island State Park which is issued pursuant to R657-41-12(3).

(h) "Special Antelope Island State Park Limited Entry Permit" means a permit authorized by the Wildlife Board to hunt bighorn sheep or mule deer on Antelope Island State Park which is issued by the division in a general drawing, requiring all applicants to pay an application fee and the successful applicant the cost of the permit

(i) "Sportsman Permit" means a permit which allows a permittee to hunt during the applicable season dates specified in Subsection (k), and which is authorized by the Wildlife Board and issued by the division in a general drawing, requiring all applicants to pay an application fee and the successful applicant the cost of the permit.

(j) "Single Year Conservation Permit" means a conservation permit awarded to an eligible conservation organization pursuant to R657-41-6 for one year to sell, market or otherwise use as an aid in wildlife related fund raising activities.

(k) "Statewide Conservation Permit" means a permit issued for a conservation permit species that allows a permittee to hunt:

(i) big game species on any open unit with archery equipment during the general archery season published in the big game proclamation for the unit beginning before September 1, and with any weapon from September 1 through December 31, except pronghorn and moose from September 1 through November 15 and deer and elk from September 1 through January 15;

(ii) two turkeys on any open unit from April 1 through May 31;

(iii) bear on any open unit during the season authorized by the Wildlife Board for that unit;

(iv) cougar on any open unit during the season authorized by the Wildlife Board for that unit and during the season dates authorized by the Wildlife Board on any harvest objective unit that has been closed by meeting its objective;

(v) Antelope Island is not an open unit for hunting any species of wildlife authorized by a conservation or sportsman permit, except for the Special Antelope Island State Park Conservation Permits and the Special Antelope Island State Park Limited Entry Permits; and

(vi) Central Mountain/Nebo/Wasatch West sheep unit is open to the Sportsmen permit holder on even number years and open to the Statewide Conservation permit holder on odd number years.

Rule #2- (read subsection i)

Utah Code
Title 23 Wildlife Resources Code of Utah
Chapter 20 Enforcement - Violations and Penalties
Section 3 Taking, transporting, selling, or purchasing protected wildlife illegal except as authorized -- Penalty.

23-20-3. Taking, transporting, selling, or purchasing protected wildlife illegal except as authorized -- Penalty.
(1) Except as provided in this title or a rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board, a person may not:
(a) take protected wildlife or its parts;
(b) collect, import, possess, transport, propagate, store, donate, transfer, or export protected wildlife or its parts;
(c) take, possess, sell, purchase, barter, donate, or trade protected wildlife or its parts without having previously procured the necessary licenses, permits, tags, stamps, certificates of registration, authorizations, and receipts required in this title or a rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(d) take protected wildlife with any weapon, ammunition, implement, tool, device, or any part of any of these not specifically authorized in this title or a rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(e) possess while in pursuit of protected wildlife any weapon, ammunition, implement, tool, device, or any part of any of these not specifically authorized in this title or a rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(f) take protected wildlife using any method, means, process, or practice not specifically authorized in this title or a rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(g) take protected wildlife outside the season dates, location boundaries, and daily time frames established in rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(h) take protected wildlife in excess of the bag and possession limits established in rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board;
(i) take protected wildlife in an area closed to hunting, trapping, or fishing by rule, proclamation, or order of the Wildlife Board, or by executive order of the division director pursuant to Subsection 23-14-8(4);

TERM: Constructive notice= is the legal fiction that signifies that a person or entity should have known, as a reasonable person would have, of a legal action taken or to be taken, even if they have no actual knowledge of it.

Copied from PAGE 1 of the 2016 Big Game Field guide:

This guidebook summarizes Utah?s big game hunting laws and rules. Although it is a convenient quick-reference document for Utah big game regulations, it is not an all-encompassing resource. For an in-depth look at the state?s big game hunting laws and rules, visit wildlife.utah.gov/rules. You can use the references in the guidebook?such as Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-24 and Utah Code ? 23-20-25?to search the Division?s website for the detailed statute or rule that underpins the guidebook summary. If you have questions about a particular rule, call or visit the nearest Division office.

These are the full sections of each document. It is pretty clear that She broke rules one and two. It is also pretty clear that the proclamation guide book is very clear up front that it is not conclusive to each and every rule. It is also very clear that this was a clear violation that should have been prosecuted but was just minimized and swept under the rug as it directly relates to the Conservation tag big money program that the DWR is relying on for much needed funds.

This entire story is the epitome of what is wrong with Hunting in Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-16 AT 03:15PM (MST)[p]Not a smart quote by Wade. Note to self don't talk out of your azz. Apologize and move on.
 
I guess wade lemon is an azz**** and will forever be now in my opinion. Since "knuckleheaded" $25 tag owners don't do squat for the wildlife comment.

Yet how many of us knuckleheads volunteer our time for habitat and hunting organizations, how many of us knuckleheads contribute large % of our "lowly" incomes to wildlife, how much hunting would there be in the country if all of us knuckle heads stopped which I would take a guess as to say "knuckleheads" are 95% of the hunting community if not more...
wade azz**** lemon can s**k donkey D**K!

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
 
>I guess wade lemon is an
>azz**** and will forever be
>now in my opinion. Since
>"knuckleheaded" $25 tag owners don't
>do squat for the wildlife
>comment.
>
>Yet how many of us knuckleheads
>volunteer our time for habitat
>and hunting organizations, how many
>of us knuckleheads contribute large
>% of our "lowly" incomes
>to wildlife, how much hunting
>would there be in the
>country if all of us
>knuckle heads stopped which I
>would take a guess as
>to say "knuckleheads" are 95%
>of the hunting community if
>not more...
>wade azz**** lemon can s**k
>donkey D**K!
>
>Mntman
>
>"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>
X2
 
Here's the standard CYA appology from facebook.

This is Wade Lemon. I am not a social media person, but this was brought to my attention and thought I better comment. I wanted to take a moment to clarify what was published in a recent Salt Lake Tribune article. As many of us know the media can twist or distort words from the original meaning. The choice of excerpts taken from our conversation and stated the way they were paints an unrealistic picture of what was actually said and is only stirring more contention. I am not writing this to place blame, to point fingers, or to start a dialogue, I am simply writing to clarify. The article insinuates that this was an illegal hunt, if there were anything illegal about it, everyone involved would have been ticketed, fined, and probably received jail time yet we would still receive the same public flogging by social media that we are receiving now. The article also infers that I think all Utah hunters that purchase a 25$ tag are "knuckleheads" and that they do little to nothing for conservation. This could not be further from the truth. I AM one of these knuckleheads.... and though it may be a small contribution in comparison with some of the money conservation tags and other avenues bring in, that small donation in conjunction with all others, is GREAT. Utah wildlife and conservation would not be what it is today without the combined contributions and efforts both small and large of Sportsmen and women. I understand if you read the article and were offended by my comments, you had every right to be, given the light they were portrayed in. Now let me be very clear as to the knuckleheads I was referring to..... I am referring to the "handful" of knuckleheads that throw mud and allegations. I am referring to the knuckleheads that have issued threats to my family, guides, and clients. I am referring to the knuckleheads that call for my friends' head on a platter, and believe they should be locked up in prison with all hunting rights revoked. If these knuckleheads would spend a fraction of the time and energy they do spit-balling and put it into something that would be beneficial like taking a kid hunting or fishing, or volunteering at a hunter safety class then their contribution would be invaluable as opposed to their time spent "spitballing" on the computer that doesn't "do squat" for wildlife or the future of wildlife. Instead they think because they paid 25$ they are good and can say whatever foul slander they would like. Everyone involved in this hunt has been effected negatively and want nothing more than to move forward. The Waldrip's have become family to us and are great supporters to Utah and Utah's wildlife. The Waldrips and their family are some of the finest people on the face of the earth. Please note because of the conservation program, contributions from hunters both large and small and the Utah DWR, wildlife in Utah is better than its ever been. If you were to look back in early settler's journals we know that deer and elk population were scarce and that predators had overrun the state so much that the pioneer's actually feared for their children's lives. Now Utah boasts some of the best wildlife and hunting in the world. This is by no accident. This is from a combined effort by all. This was the first hunt of this type we have had the opportunity to pursue. We did everything in our power to make sure we were versed in every rule. Moving forward, we have learned a lot and will play our part in making sure nothing like this comes about again.

Sincerely,
Wade Lemon
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-22-16 AT 09:31PM (MST)[p]It sounds like the outfitter made some emotional comments during his interview with the reporter and took a cheap shot at nearly all hunters and sportsmen. Once the article showed up in print, he quickly realized his mistake and apologized on Facebook. Unfortunately, that comment is similar to comments that I have heard from other guides and conservation groups and it is probably how he really feels. Just think, have you heard anyone compare the North American Conservation Model to socialism?

Nothing could be further for the truth. The thousands of every day sportsmen that buy tags and licenses and pay taxes are the backbone of our wildlife system. They are the true heroes of conservation - not the handful of high rollers who write big checks each year to jump to the front of the line, hire guides and a team of spotters, and hunt with premium tags. If it is really about conservation, then write a check and make a donation without asking for a premium tag. Let's get rid of the 300+ conservation permits and see how many of these folks are still writing out big checks for Utah's wildlife.

This incident is yet another example of what is wrong with Utah's wildlife management. The system has become corrupted with money and special interest groups. Utah sportsmen have a right to be angry and expect better from the DWR and licensed guides. Despite the views of Mr. Lemon and the DWR, we don't have to write a check for $95,000 to have an opinion that matters.

-Hawkeye-
 
These last few threads on the ram some ##### fromTexas shot are about to wear me the f*ck out.

I must preface this by saying I live in Texas now but grew up and lived 23 years in New Mexico hunting elk, deer, aoudad & oryx. I see all the clowns posting this "texass" #####. Really??? Have you ever been here? Or are you just pissed she has a ##### load of cash to hunt and you don't. If I had that kind of money I would do those kind of hunts as well. But I don't, I still don't act like a Whiney ass #####.

Seems to me it has turned into a class warfare between rich and poor and this only helps the libtards.

And you guys should stop feeding Tri-State ammo, he does not represent most Texans.
 
I'm seeing 5 or 6 curse words in one post. That doesn't exactly help to cure the negative connotation Tristate has given Texans.

Grizzly
 
You are totally right Hawkeye. Let's do away with those conservation tags and see if the money comes in. It wouldn't. But then look what those conservation tags have paid for. If we did not have conservation tags that sheep would not have been killed because that is what paid to have the Sheep put there on Nebo in the first place. We wouldn't have the new sheep units, the new goat units and the transplanting of wildlife around the state we have now that conservation tags have paid for. Every species of wildlife have benefited because of those tags. Every species as well as ALL hunters. More tags for the general public. Now that's the way it is. Sure tags are taken out of the draw, sure guides and Sportsmen groups benefit also from the tags, but in the long run more tags become available for the common hunter like you and I. Now I am off to try and find me a buck on a general deer tag for the first time deer hunting in 9 years.
 
Birdman-

I know we fund a lot of projects with conservation tag money. But let's call it like it is. I get tired of folks referring to wealthy hunter's that buy those high-dollar tags every year as great conservationists and the rest of us are "knuckleheads" that don't give a darn about conservation. I have nothing against the wealthy but these folks are writing a check so they can cut to the front of the line and hunt with a premium tag without waiting like the rest of us. Once again, if it was all about conservation they would write a check without demanding one if our 300+ conservation tags. But you and I both know that won't happen. So it's not really about conservation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Utah has way too money high dollar tags and more than all of the rest of the western states combined. In addition to removing opportunities for average sportsman waiting patiently in line for their chance to hunt, these tags have opened the door for money, politics and special interest groups to gain control of our wildlife management. We have seen it over and over again, and this is yet another example where the DWR changes or ignores its own rules to benefit these groups. You can continue to call it conservation work but I see it as the further commercialization of hunting and the erosion of the NACM. I don't believe the benefit the average sportsmen see from these tags offsets the damage they have done and continue to do to our hunting heritage. Perhaps we should stop referring to the tags as conservation tags. It's a myth.

Good luck chasing bucks today. And in the future, I hope that you get to hunt more than once every nine years on the general tag.

-Hawkeye-
 
>Birdman-
>
>I know we fund a lot
>of projects with conservation tag
>money. But let's call
>it like it is.
>I get tired of folks
>referring to wealthy hunter's that
>buy those high-dollar tags every
>year as great conservationists and
>the rest of us are
>"knuckleheads" that don't give a
>darn about conservation. I
>have nothing against the wealthy
>but these folks are writing
>a check so they can
>cut to the front of
>the line and hunt with
>a premium tag without waiting
>like the rest of us.
> Once again, if it
>was all about conservation they
>would write a check without
>demanding one if our 300+
>conservation tags. But you
>and I both know that
>won't happen. So it's
>not really about conservation.
>
>I've said it before and I'll
>say it again, Utah has
>way too money high dollar
>tags and more than all
>of the rest of the
>western states combined. In
>addition to removing opportunities for
>average sportsman waiting patiently in
>line for their chance to
>hunt, these tags have opened
>the door for money, politics
>and special interest groups to
>gain control of our wildlife
>management. We have seen
>it over and over again,
>and this is yet another
>example where the DWR changes
>or ignores its own rules
>to benefit these groups.
>You can continue to call
>it conservation work but I
>see it as the further
>commercialization of hunting and the
>erosion of the NACM.
>I don't believe the benefit
>the average sportsmen see from
>these tags offsets the damage
>they have done and continue
>to do to our hunting
>heritage. Perhaps we should
>stop referring to the tags
>as conservation tags. It's
>a myth.
>
>Good luck chasing bucks today.
> And in the future,
>I hope that you get
>to hunt more than once
>every nine years on the
>general tag.
>
>-Hawkeye-

Im pretty sure all the money these guys spend for tags is more related to ego than conservation.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-16 AT 05:25PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-16 AT 11:37?AM (MST)

>Birdman-
>
>I know we fund a lot
>of projects with conservation tag
>money. But let's call
>it like it is.
>I get tired of folks
>referring to wealthy hunter's that
>buy those high-dollar tags every
>year as great conservationists and
>the rest of us are
>"knuckleheads" that don't give a
>darn about conservation. I
>have nothing against the wealthy
>but these folks are writing
>a check so they can
>cut to the front of
>the line and hunt with
>a premium tag without waiting
>like the rest of us.
> Once again, if it
>was all about conservation they
>would write a check without
>demanding one if our 300+
>conservation tags. But you
>and I both know that
>won't happen. So it's
>not really about conservation.
>
>I've said it before and I'll
>say it again, Utah has
>way too money high dollar
>tags and more than all
>of the rest of the
>western states combined. In
>addition to removing opportunities for
>average sportsman waiting patiently in
>line for their chance to
>hunt, THESE TAGS HAVE OPENED
>THE DOOR FOR MONEY, POLITICS
>AND SPECIAL INTEREST (ie: TROPHY HUNTING) GROUPS TO
>GAIN CONTROL OF OUR WILDLIFE
>MANAGEMENT. WE HAVE SEEN
>IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN,
>and this is yet another
>example where the DWR changes
>or ignores its own rules
>to benefit these groups.
>You can continue to call
>it conservation work but I
>see it as the further
>commercialization of hunting and the
>erosion of the NACM.
>I don't believe the benefit
>the average sportsmen see from
>these tags offsets the damage
>they have done and continue
>to do to our hunting
>heritage. Perhaps we should
>stop referring to the tags
>as conservation tags. It's
>a myth.
>
>Good luck chasing bucks today.
> And in the future,
>I hope that you get
>to hunt more than once
>every nine years on the
>general tag.
>
>-Hawkeye-

Jason goes a bit further with the solutions than I personally would go, but he's right on about the crux of the problem. The "Conservation" part of the program never stays in the field, in the science, or even with the education and promotion hunting and fishing. It always ends up promoting and expanding the specific agendas of those special interest groups in the RAC's, Wildlife Board meetings, State Legislature, Governor's Office, Federal Government agencies, and regular and social media to the detriment of the typical Utah outdoorsman and the NACM. And if it's allowed to continue expanding it will end up killing the sport, not saving it.
 
I vote that we formally change the name of these 300+ auction tags from "Conservation Permits" to "Pimped-Out, High-Dollar Permits for Wealthy Donors." Let's stop pretending it's all about conservation.

But what do I know? I'm just a lazy, do nothing knucklehead who only takes and gives nothing back to conservation and then has the audacity to spitball the real conservationists out there.

-Hawkeye-
 
Every State's Fish & Wildlife Regulations are full of fine print "buried" deep down.

"The pamphlet's opening page does caution hunters that the guidebook is merely a quick reference summary and advises visiting the DWR website to see the full set of rules....."

https://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-i...7-41--conservation-and-sportsman-permits.html

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. I would never get off by telling a warden "I didn't know"
 
After the expo bid fiasco last year, Utah showed that its corruption goes all the way to the tippity top. Unless you are working on changing judges and politicians, you are wasting your time.
 
I hate pc. I have found that off the cuff, or drunk answers are both generally honest. Props Wade for letting us all know what he(and his industry), really think.

Funny thing, he almost quoted Tristate from every post tri ever made.

So, fanboys, how'd that taste? Here youve been worshipping, and covering, and defending, only to find out ole Wade lumps your worthless azzes in with my worthless azz.

I havent gone to the expo in 10 yrs, but i believe im headed this year. I need a pic with the sheep, Wade, and my "knucklehead outdoors" t shirt.

If you $25 dollar deer tag guys would just quit, go away, and take up golf, we could have some REAL conservation going on!




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Same question, still cant be answered. If he memorized it, and it said nothing about a closure, WHY DID YOU CALL THE OFFICE IN PRICE TO ASK?





"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Have you guys noticed that Tristate has gone silent on us? I wonder if his buddies at WLH finally reached out to him and told him to shut his pie hole so that this crap storm can blow over. You have to wonder if this debacle would have gotten any real attention if Tristate had not posted the "money shot" up on this forum for all to see and then carefully stirred the pot for the last four weeks. He is one heck of a PR guy.

Tri, thanks for bringing attention to this important story.

-Hawkeye-
 
Actually Tristate went hunting on you. I got back last night and I am having a nightmare day today. I will try and respond later to this Tribune garbage that yall are so easily suckered into loving.
 
Wade stated, "The article also infers that I think all Utah hunters that purchase a 25$ tag are "knuckleheads" and that they do little to nothing for conservation. This could not be further from the truth. I AM one of these knuckleheads...."

$25 ??????? That shows you when the last time Wade was an Average Joe "knucklehead". You would have to go back to the 20th century for that kind of price. (2002 was $35)
 
I have a late season ML tag,, can I carry my ML and have my other ML next to me for my follow up shot?

hehehehehe

Just wondering..
 
>I have a late season ML
>tag,, can I carry my
>ML and have my other
>ML next to me for
>my follow up shot?
>
>hehehehehe
>
>Just wondering..


Yes. And I think you can hunt on the Henry's also? May want to check with the Saltlake office janitor first though.
 
The tribune article is a hit piece. They make a consumable product and none of yall buy the product unless it feeds your emotions. Quoting Wade Lemon correctly and making him look like a humble business owner would have made the product sour and they wouldn't sell the story. Make him look like your worst enemy and yall lapped it up like trained dogs.
 
So Tri, the extremely liberal newspaper out of SL, takes what Wade said, unless you contend that he wasn't quoted directly, and that is supposed to feed the non liberal hunters in the state? Also, FYI, a deer tag hasn't cost $25 in over 15 years, or did he not say he was a "small guy" that hunts with OTC tags?

Since your buds and all(your checks do clear so you and the Waldrips are friends of his), when was the last time HE taught hunters safety, or volunteered at the Expo at the kids areas? He is pretty good at pointing out how much he does, BUT WHAT DOES HE DO, other than cash checks. Also, if he is SOOOOOO concerned about Utah conservation, why is he guiding in Mexico? Or Arizona? Or anywhere else. Isn't that taking money that could come to Utah, and taking it elsewhere?

I love it there isnt PC answers. We ALL know what he said, what he meant, and where he stands. Unlike you, we have known for years, he just finally said it. Then, like the coward he is, he hurried and changed his tune. He doesnt even have the balls to accept comments on his "I'm not a social meadia guy", post, even though his whole buisness is plastered all over the internet. I actually respected him a little when I read what he said, thinking at least he has a set and spits the shizz out of his mouth and stands up. Then he yanked that away and spewed how the media, 200 miles away, who had never heard of him before, were out to get him, COWARD!




"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Nothing better than watching one man call another man coward through a computer screen.

Do you actually consider anything you typed there to be logic?

If you don't think a paper will lie their butts off to sell print to a bunch of gullible zealots you are living in denial.

Do you know what is happening to US newspapers? They are dying in droves and desperate. They have compromised their credibility to try and compete in the digital markets.

Just like when all this started you don't know what he said or where he stands. You live on assumptions and hate and it's getting you know where.


Hossblur, what do you want? Be honest.
 
Tri-

We know that Wade Lemon stated that his clients "put a lot of money into Utah." He also stated that "[t]hese knuckleheads ought to be ashamed for spit-balling these people. Those guys who buy a $25 deer tag don't do squat" for habitat conservation. Those are direct quotes from Mr. Lemon.

You will notice in his "apology" on Facebook, Mr. Lemon did not deny making those specific statements. Rather, he claimed that the statements were taken out of context and the reporter's "choice of excerpts taken from the conversation . . . paints an unrealistic picture of what was actually said." In other words, he made those statements to the reporter but he would have preferred for the reporter to have included others statements in the story. Simply put, he made those comments and there is no way to put a positive spin on them.

You call this a "hit piece" but the reporter was actually quite fair in his reporting. He could have dropped the hammer on Wade Lemon Hunting, the DWR and Ms. Waldrip but he didn't. The most damaging part of the entire article were Wade Lemon's own words. He can try to blame those comments on the reporter but we all know what he meant.

-Hawkeye-
 
>Nothing better than watching one man
>call another man coward through
>a computer screen.
>
>Do you actually consider anything you
>typed there to be logic?
>
>
>If you don't think a paper
>will lie their butts off
>to sell print to a
>bunch of gullible zealots you
>are living in denial.
>
>Do you know what is happening
>to US newspapers? They
>are dying in droves and
>desperate. They have compromised
>their credibility to try and
>compete in the digital markets.
>
>
>Just like when all this started
>you don't know what he
>said or where he stands.
> You live on assumptions
>and hate and it's getting
>you know where.
>
>
>Hossblur, what do you want?
>Be honest.

His license pulled, or at least under review. Same thing i have said all along. Same thing that every other license buisness faces anytime they are involved in shady dealings. And yeah, i know it would be Kalen Lemon hunting the next day.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Actually Hawkeye I believe his words were "this couldn't be further from the truth". Now you are lying in order to spread someone else's lie. Do you have any soul at all?

It's a hit piece and you are a zealot.
 
So you think if you scream and cry endlessly on an internet forum that your dream of ruining another person will come true?

You do realize that is a perfect example of childish behavior.

Tell me logically how this works. I want to know. How does spreading lies and rumors on an internet forum get someone's license pulled? Walk me through this well thought out plan you have please.
 
Hey Hossblur,

You ever thought of being a politician? Hell you ought to go help Hillary twist the truth and build your lies to slander someone else. I've been sitting back and reading your posts, you are a genuine pile of crap, you really should consider political campaign managing. You would be really good at it.
 
>Hey Hossblur,
>
>You ever thought of being a
>politician? Hell you ought to
>go help Hillary twist the
>truth and build your lies
>to slander someone else.
>I've been sitting back and
>reading your posts, you are
>a genuine pile of crap,
>you really should consider political
>campaign managing. You would be
>really good at it.

Good first post. So heres a piece of advice, if you find yourself on the same side as Tristate, you should seriously reconsider your thought process.

As for tri, $95000. Do u think if a contractor had a $95k house burn down because it wasnt built to code he would walk? Again, funny thing is, and unlike you or your new friend, i ACTUALLY talked to the dwr. They dont agree with Wades spin. Seems he has a reputation with them too.

As for what do i hope to acvomplish now? Just shining a light in the corruption that has buried itself into udwr. Dont forget though, without you Tri, all this was was a rumor, you found us the unpublished pic that made ole Monty Burns correct. Not to mention Wade himself, who decided that he would chastise all the knuckleheads. Yiu and he just confirmed what was a rumor, and "jealousy".


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
I must have missed something. Is Wade Lemon building houses now? Apples and oranges.

As for his "reputation" I don't suppose anyone with the DWR would like to add that quote to the tribune article. No, I guess not.

You really don't know how to do a proof or build a case against anyone. After all in one paragraph you talk about getting your "info" from the DWR and in the next sentence talk about the DWR being corrupt?????? You are talking crazy slick. Not only are you using gossip and hearsay from people but you don't even trust the people you are getting it from???????

Actually the DWR confirmed the rumor and the tribune fed a bunch of no nothing zealots with the easiest bait you were all too ready to gobble up.

You are shining the light on belligerent silliness. Are you sure you aren't an anti-hunter?
 
Yeah, a first time poster...Actually I dont know any of you, but I can see one thing, and after seeing all the posts hossblur posts, hes a complete idiot, like a total moron. This used to be a good forum, and lots of good came from it. Here's an idea, internet warriors. Hunting is a jealous sport, you should go hunt and enjoy it and then maybe you wont be such an angry bigot...I guess everyone needs a hobby...I enjoy the hunt and reading about good quality hunting experiences. You enjoy internet slander, surely not one person on here knows all the facts.
..get a life...
 
>Yeah, a first time poster...Actually I
>dont know any of you,
>but I can see one
>thing, and after seeing all
>the posts hossblur posts, hes
>a complete idiot, like a
>total moron. This used to
>be a good forum, and
>lots of good came from
>it. Here's an idea,
>internet warriors. Hunting is
>a jealous sport, you should
>go hunt and enjoy it
>and then maybe you wont
>be such an angry bigot...I
>guess everyone needs a hobby...I
>enjoy the hunt and reading
>about good quality hunting experiences.
>You enjoy internet slander, surely
>not one person on here
>knows all the facts.
>..get a life...

Uhhh, like, uhh, you know what i mean, like um, a, moron. Good work.

Tri, you got me scooby. All that NCIS has taught you well.

Since im an angry anti hunting bigot(i didnt know wade was a minority), i feel horrible. Perhaps some sensitivity training?

When u explain how wlh is the greatest guide ever, but didnt know the law. Or if he didnt know, why he called, youll have something, but other than letting Bess be 100, your spinning, and like spinning.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Welcome to the forum wooley. Just a quick FYI. There are many sportsmen who concerned and frustrated with with the circumstances surrounding that sheep hunt. Why? Because laws were violated and a trophy ram was killed in a unit that was closed to the hunter. Why else? Because it appears that nobody is being held accountable for the incident (Not the DWR, the outfitter, the guides or the hunter). Why else? Because most sportsmen believe there is a double standard being applied and that the same deference would not be shown if this was a regular joe who wandered outside of his unit boundary. Why else? Because the outfitter involved was recently interviewed by the SL Tribune and made comments that were highly offensive to most of us but probably reflect how many within the guide industry and conservation groups truly feel.

Does that concern and frustration make Hossblur or the rest of us "idiots," "total morons," "interent warriors" and "angry bigots" as stated in your post? No. Your comments are childish and ridiculous but at least you will have one person on your side of this issue . . . Tristate. And that sir is some great company.

-Hawkeye-
 
Hawkeye,

I couldn't agree with you more. See, the way you explain things in the first paragraph of your response, are spot on. I totally understand and agree with what you say, and your opinion. Totally, agree. You state things in a civilized fashion, and you sound legit. I just think there are those on here that don't have "all" the facts, and make themselves look like idiots..I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.

I just see that this kind of talk makes all of us "regular" sportsmen look like freaking morons. There's better ways to get a point across.
 
I will play again.

Direct from the field regulations book.


Bighorn sheep, mountain goat and bison on any open unit with any legal weapon*?
Sept. 1?Dec. 31, 2016
* You may not take an elk or Rocky Mountain bighorn
sheep on the Pilot Mountain hunting unit.
? Antelope Island is not an open unit. There are only
a couple of permits that authorize hunting on the
island. In order to hunt on Antelope Island, you must
have a permit valid for Antelope Island.

How hard would it have been to add the line mentioning the odd/even year rule for bighorns?? They mentioned Pilot Mountains specifically. . . Why not the Nebo??

I realize that the guidebook is not complete information, and it states that. But the state had a serious over site here. I think the real problem with the DWR and the State on this issue is inconsistency on the matter. They list one closed unit, but not the other. Additionally they fail to provide a link or url that provides the source of the rules pertaining to the sportsman/conservation "state wide" tags. They provided a specific rules section in the guide book for the tags, in order to be consistent they need to also provide a specific rules section within the online access for the same.

Trust me a lawyer would have a field day with this "case." THAT is why the prosecutor(s) declined pursuing this. A MISTAKE WAS MADE!! Mistakes by WLH as well as the State of Utah led to this problem.

Hoss - if you feel that within your trade/industry you are being held to a higher standard then I suggest you change professions.
 
While I think you bring up a decent point about why didn't the DWR include a line in that section, at the end of the day you should still be obligated to follow the actual laws.

From page 1, top right corner of the field guide

"This guidebook summarizes Utah?s big
game hunting laws and rules. Although it
is a convenient quick-reference document
for Utah big game regulations, it is not an
all-encompassing resource.
For an in-depth look at the state?s
big game hunting laws and rules, visit
wildlife.utah.gov/rules
.
You can use the references in the guide
-
book?such as Utah Admin. Rule R657-5-24
and Utah Code ? 23-20-25?to search the
Division?s website for the detailed statute or
rule that underpins the guidebook summary.
If you have questions about a particular
rule, call or visit the nearest Division office. "

It tells you where in the Administrative Rules you need to look for the wildlife regulations. If you have a special tag, the likes of which there are only 2 in the whole state, I would think you'd look EVERYWHERE to make sure you follow the actual rules--even more so if you are a guide for that hunter.

As for a lawyer having a "field day" with this case, now, I might only be a newly minted law graduate that literally got his passing Bar results this morning, but hawkeye is a well experienced attorney at a very prestigious firm. Another poster that has been vocal in his disapproval of this is a prosecutor in Utah. And there are a couple other attorneys as well. So yeah, I think a field day could be had here. Is it open and shut? No, it isn't. But it sure appears that some charges absolutely could have been successfully prosecuted against somebody for this debacle.
 
As I said before, there is plenty of blame to go around. The DWR screwed up. The outffiter and guides screwed up. And the hunter screwed up. This whole fiasco could have been avoided if any one of those parties would have properly done their due diligence. But at the end of the day, nobody is going to be held responsible. And I highly doubt that the state would be so deferential if this did not involve the governor's tag holder and a high profile guide service. Hence the double standard.

-Hawkeye-
 
So what "due diligence" could have been done above and beyond the DWR????

THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE OF A DOUBLE STANDARD. That is made up butt hurt bull. You have absolutely nothing to compare this case to that would make you believe there is any double standard. NONE.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-16 AT 03:45PM (MST)[p]OK Hawkeye since you are an attorney . . . let's play devils advocate. What would be your defense for Mr. Lemon if he came to you as a client?

Surely as an attorney who works for a prestigious firm (as your friend above stated) you have done these exercises before.

1) line out the facts of the case

2) take your position

3) analyze how the apposing side will poke holes in your case and the position you have taken

Please perform step #3 for me . . . PM will be fine. I am just curious.

I do agree with you that a rule/law was broken. I also agree that some form of citation might have been proper. Not sure what those might be. But a full on poaching case and jerking an outfitters license would not be warranted in this matter. The State screwed up just as much as WLH. Again I am not saying there weren't mistakes made on both sides, and yes "mistakes" do include breaking a law. But the truth is I am not sure that I see a double standard in this situation.

WLH posted pictures of the ongoing hunt online. The DWR realized they were hunting in an area that was off limits and attempted to make contact. CRAP HAPPENS in the field.

As an attorney you also have to find it amusing that the very "knuckle heads" (what a horrible word to use, compares to the "n" word, or calling some lady a "...." "cu.." like has been referred to above, but I digress) these guys making such a huge stink probably hindered the investigation as much as anything. How long does it usually take you to review a case and evidence Hawkeye? All the attention forced this situation to be investigated and reviewed in a very fast manner, because people wouldn't leave it alone. Reminds me of when my 5 year old keeps pestering me so I finally just tell her NO! Then the tantrum keeps going because she didn't get the answer she wanted.
 
That is a very interesting post pookiebar.

I bet Hawkeye comes back with some kind of post about he wouldn't defend someone he knows is guilty. 3...2...1...
 
>I will play again.
>
>Direct from the field regulations book.
>
>
>
>Bighorn sheep, mountain goat and bison
>on any open unit with
>any legal weapon*?
>Sept. 1?Dec. 31, 2016
>* You may not take an
>elk or Rocky Mountain bighorn
>
>sheep on the Pilot Mountain hunting
>unit.
>? Antelope Island is not an
>open unit. There are only
>
>a couple of permits that authorize
>hunting on the
>island. In order to hunt on
>Antelope Island, you must
>have a permit valid for Antelope
>Island.
>
>How hard would it have been
>to add the line mentioning
>the odd/even year rule for
>bighorns?? They mentioned Pilot
>Mountains specifically. . . Why
>not the Nebo??
>
>I realize that the guidebook is
>not complete information, and it
>states that. But the
>state had a serious over
>site here. I think
>the real problem with the
>DWR and the State on
>this issue is inconsistency on
>the matter. They list
>one closed unit, but not
>the other. Additionally they
>fail to provide a link
>or url that provides the
>source of the rules pertaining
>to the sportsman/conservation "state wide"
>tags. They provided a specific
>rules section in the guide
>book for the tags, in
>order to be consistent they
>need to also provide a
>specific rules section within the
>online access for the same.
>
>
>Trust me a lawyer would have
>a field day with this
>"case." THAT is why
>the prosecutor(s) declined pursuing this.
> A MISTAKE WAS MADE!!
> Mistakes by WLH as
>well as the State of
>Utah led to this problem.
>
>
>Hoss - if you feel that
>within your trade/industry you are
>being held to a higher
>standard then I suggest you
>change professions.


I think in this case, beauticians are held to a higher standard, both of which are licensed under dopl.

I agree, a lawyer would have a good case in defense. But intent and innocent, arent the same.

But the $95k number i believe is important. It too easy to say "its just a sheep". But its not, its $95k. This wasnt some dude that didnt see a second point and killed a spike on a spike unit. There was a ton of coord., between hunter, outfitter, guide, and tv show. I dont believe it an honest mistake. Im at a disadvantage because i have been told things off record, and i wont divulge, so i just have to keep repeating. And no one has answered yet. IF WLH REALLY DIDNT KNOW, AND IT WASNT SENT VIA LETTER, OR PROC., WHY DID WLH CALL A BIOLOGIST IN PRICE?

Hopefully a GRAMMA is filed then we can see the whole story. But if you or I make a $95k "mistake", i doubt "oopsy", would be the result.

Thanks Hawkeye, appreciate the defense, wooley is either a hothead, or misinformed, either way i prefer his direct approach, with no apology, i respect guys who have opinions, and the guts to say them.



"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 

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