Governor's office Responds to Expo concerns

Sherlock

Active Member
Messages
378
Last week I submitted an email to Governor Herbert's office expressing my concerns about the whole expo controversy and, in particular, the loss of tags from the public draw to the benefit of select private entities with ties to DWR that have the appearance of impropriety. I received the following response. Enjoy...


March 2, 2016

Dear (Sherlock):

Thank you for your email to the Office of the Governor regarding the Division of Wildlife Resources (DWR). I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Governor.

Our office appreciates hearing from constituents and your comments and opinion on this issue have been noted. As much misinformation has circulated, I wanted to share a statement from Michael Canning, Assistant Director at DWR. I hope the below details remove any doubt you may have had regarding the expo selection process.

"The purpose of the wildlife expo permits is to raise revenue for conservation, but also to bring a large wildlife exposition to Utah for all of the economic benefits such an exposition would provide to the state. Whenever the state desires to procure goods or services, we follow the process described in state procurement code. In this case, state procurement code required that the state issue a formal "Request for Proposal", which not only asks that proposals be submitted, but it also clearly defines how those proposals will be scored. The RFP for the expo permit distributor clearly stated that proposals would be scored on: 1) the viability of the business plan and potential to put on a high quality expo (40% of total score), 2) the ability to organize and conduct a secure and fair permit drawing (20%), 3) the commitment of the organization to use revenue generated for wildlife conservation in Utah (30%), and 4) the historical contribution and previous performance of the organization in Utah (10%). All of this information was made available to potential applicants before proposals were written.

After proposals were received, an independent four-person committee (comprised of members from the Department of Information Technology Services, the Department of Natural Resources, the Governor's Office, and the Division of Wildlife Resources) reviewed the proposals and scored them based on the pre-established criteria. The independent committee unanimously agreed that the proposal submitted by Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife (SFW) was the superior proposal, because it better addressed the criteria in the RFP, and consequently had the highest total score. The SFW proposal scored particularly well because it contained a detailed expo business and marketing plan that included data to support the claims in the proposal, and it also provided a detailed data security plan to protect the personal information of the state's customers, as well as the credit card information of people that attend the expo. The other proposal provided a much less detailed business plan, and its data security plan provided little to no detail. The lack of detail in the data security plan was particularly troubling, as a data breach could cost the state millions of dollars. As I'm sure you can understand, we could not put the social security numbers and credit card numbers of our customers at risk due to the lack of a detailed data security plan. If you would like more information about the committee's decision, please read the justification statement for their selection, which is located at: Caution-http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf.

As many have noted, the SFW proposal did not directly return the most money to the state on a percentage basis (and as you can tell by the justification statement, that component of the SFW proposal was scored accordingly). However, it was the only proposal that provided enough detail to give the state certainty that a high-quality expo would occur and that customer data could be secured. Because of these concerns with the losing proposal and the lack of detail it provided, there is no way to say with any certainty that the total amount of money directly provided to the state would have been higher if the losing proposal was selected. In fact, the losing proposal may have cost the state money if the expo was not economically viable or if there had been data security issues. Although both proposals had their strong points, the state purchasing process selected the best proposal in a fair and unbiased manner. Finally, it is important to note that the contract recently signed between the state and SFW to distribute expo permits clearly states that all of the money raised from expo permit application fees will be used specifically to "support conservation initiatives in Utah". No money has been lost, and all proceeds will benefit Utah wildlife conservation."

Again, we appreciate your communication and thank you for taking time to contact us regarding this matter. If you have additional questions, please feel free to contact the Governor's Office again.

Sincerely,

Austin Cox
Constituent Services
 
>Not good enough...for the haters.

You have finally made an accurate post since all that is in that letter is what we have known all along and that is everything was screwed up from the getgo and it goes all the way up to the Governor himself. That little speech he made at the Expo is another real gem in this whole mess!
 
The governor is a moron met him a few times and ill vote democrat before voting for him again

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
If you have additional questions, don't hesitate to contact tha GOVs office. LMAO
 
I read the response and it makes sense. The data security thing is a big deal. You gotta make sure those CC numbers are safe. Ask Target.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
 
Utah has had really bad luck getting crapped on by Leuitenant Governors. Leavitt ditched us mid-term leaving us with Olene Walker and Huntsman also left mid-term to be Chinese Ambassador leaving us with our current d-bag Herbie. Neither of those two could have got elected on their own and only were re-elected because there was an R next to their name.

This state has had some lousy governors.
 
>I read the response and it
>makes sense. The data security
>thing is a big deal.
>You gotta make sure those
>CC numbers are safe. Ask
>Target.
>
>Brian Latturner

I hope you're being facetious. RMEF has assets worth millions of dollars and processes CC payments for over 200,000 members annually. They had also notified DWR of their intent to use the same providers as the current Expo to ensure continuity.

There is absolutely no reason to doubt RMEFs ability to maintain security.

Grizzly
 
+1 Grizzly That particular part of the RFP score was the biggest farce of the entire process! When they got to that one the thing I immediately thought is you have to be kidding me!
 
>I read the response and it
>makes sense. The data security
>thing is a big deal.
>You gotta make sure those
>CC numbers are safe. Ask
>Target.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!

Soooo... Are you implying that RMEF is not able to provide adequate data security?
 
Rmef wanted to use the same company that UDWR uses for their big game draw every year.

Sfw uses a guy from bountiful utah right. A single person if I have heard correct.
 
>I read the response and it
>makes sense. The data security
>thing is a big deal.
>You gotta make sure those
>CC numbers are safe. Ask
>Target.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!


Ask Target what??? They had zero liability with their data breach. 100% of the liability fell to the financial institutions as it always does when there is a breach. Target doesn't care. Neither does the state of Utah. It is a red herring.
 
Just looking for something to hang their hat on. Weak, weak, weak. The fact that's all they could come up with as their support for the choice made speaks volumes.

RMEF proposal was stronger or equal in all the ways that matter - much stronger for the most important factors: accountability and returning $$ back for wildlife conservation.
 
RMEF didn't try to sneak in a bid because they wanted to make a difference in Utah wildlife. It was a business decision not a charity decision. Mr. Allen didn't wake up one morning and think, I wonder how much money we could donate to Utah wildlife? After all they are our favorite state.

RMEF was in Utah when our buck to doe ratios were 5-8 bucks per hundred does in most units. When the DWR said the people of Utah will always hunt, no matter how bad the hunting is, Because its a family tradition. When the DWR didn't even spend all of our license money on big game. They were as much interested in non game animals. Very little money was raised for Utah wildlife. We had a lot of non hunters running the DWR.

Now we have hunters who care running the DWR. Sportsmen have a voice. Millions of dollars have been raised for habitat, transplants, research, highway fences, migration tunnels, predator control money for coyote gunning and bounties. Over 3 million for fish hatchery repairs. Prop 5 to protect hunting, predator control, and trapping. Spring bear hunt came back, because sportsmen have a voice in Utah.

It takes a lot of money to even maintain hunting opportunity and wildlife populations.The above projects to name a few,would not have happened without SFW.

RMEF is raises money for habitat. They have done some good things. They don't lobby for the millions needed for projects for all species. They are not a political organization. I have supported and probably will continue to support SFW, RMEF, and NRA.

I agree with Founder. Having secure data and detail plan was a big difference in the expo tags. The state didn't want to gamble, they already had a successful expo.

I didn't go to the expo this year, but was told it was another great success. SFW banquets through out the state have been sold out and did very well. The DWR big game coordinator came to the Logan banquet, and was very impressed with all the kids, excited about hunting and fishing. I really don't believe that a few haters are going to take down SFW.

We have heard from top officials from DWR, and the Governors office. Are we going to debate this issue for the next 5 years?

I realize Hawkeye has invested a lot of time and money to try to help the RMEF to take over the expo which SFW and MDF had built over the years. You don't hear anything about MDF being criticized. I agree with Hawkeye, that more transparency should occur. It looks like things will improve.

There are grudge's and hatred from some. There are different opinions. Fighting among ourselves isn't providing a better future for what we love.
 
Yadayadayada! The same old BS time after time by a koolaid drinker that can't see the forest for the trees!
 
Greg-

RMEF did not "try to sneak in a bid" to "take over the expo that SFW and MDF had built over the years." Rather, RMEF submitted a proposal pursuant to the DWR's own Administrative Rules for the next five-year contract for the Expo Tags when the contract came up for renewal. Had RMEF been awarded the contract, they would have made those tags available the RMEF National Convention in SLC. SFW and MDf could have kept hosting their Expo without the tags. Let me ask you the same question I asked M73, isn't that the purpose of having the ExpoTag contract come up for renewal? To allow other conservation groups the opportunity to pursue the contract and ensure that the state, sportsmen and wildife and getting the best possible return? The DWR tells people that they want competition and their goal was to create a level playing field for all parties. But then the DWR acts suprised and the groups act frustrated that another group would actually apply for the Expo Tag contract.

If the DWR is not interested in seriously considering other offers, and I agree with you that based upon how this whole process went down that they likely are not, then the DWR should stop wasting everybody's time and simply come out and state that they are happy with SFW and MDF, they are satisfied with the status quo, and they are not interested in hearing offers from third parties for the Expo Tag contract. Unfortunately, to do that would require the DWR to violate the law, but since they had no problem violating their own Administrative Rules, why not just cut to the chase.

You are correct that we have heard from head officials in the DWR and the Governor on this issue. So what? Does that mean that we as sportsmen have to accept that they are satisfied with the status quo. Take a minute a read through the DWR's FAQ Re: Expo Tags (http://wildlife.utah.gov/utah-expo-permits-faq.html#q1) and listen to Governor Herbert's recent speech at the Expo (
), and you tell me if you think the DWR and the Governor are neutral, unbiased parties on this issue.

You are correct that I have invested a lot of time and effort into this issue. However, I was doing that long before I volunteered to help RMEF with their proposal and I will keep doing so long after RMEF has moved on to better things. As I have said many times, I don't really care who has the Expo Tag contract so long as the money is used for actual conservation and accounted for. I volunteered to help RMEF because they offered to do the right thing for sportsmen and wildlife. You can question their motives all you want but they were willing to walk the walk. And frankly, their offer to provide complete transparency and accountability was entirely consistent with their prior press releases expressing concern over the current trends relating to special state tags: http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...EFCallsforTransparencyonStateSpecialBigG.aspx and http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFWaivesRevenuefromTags.aspx. RMEF has been a leader when it comes to accountabilty and transparency among conservation groups and that is a breath of fresh air to many sportsmen.

Finally, you ask if we will continue to debate this issue for the next 5 years? I don't know. That is up to the DWR and the conservation groups. For me personally, I intend to finish responding to the DWR's FAQ's and then I will look for other opportunities to continue to shine a light on this problem. Whether it takes 5 years, 10 years or a lifetime, I am not going to simply go away because the DWR and the Governor say all is well. If you truly believe that there should be more transparency and that the groups are heading in that direction, then help me understand what has changed? I have reviewed the recently signed contract and the statements from the groups and on the surface it looks like smoke and mirrors. Help me and the public understand what, if anything, has substantively changed? As an SFW member, if you understand what the whole "conservation initiative" is supposed to mean and how that changes the status quo then please explain it to the rest of us.

Thanks for the discussion and for keeping it civil.

-Hawkeye-
 
>RMEF didn't try to sneak in
>a bid because they wanted
>to make a difference in
>Utah wildlife. It was
>a business decision not a
>charity decision. Mr. Allen
>didn't wake up one morning
>and think, I wonder how
>much money we could donate
>to Utah wildlife? After
>all they are our favorite
>state.
>
>RMEF was in Utah when our
>buck to doe ratios were
>5-8 bucks per hundred does
>in most units. When the
>DWR said the people of
>Utah will always hunt, no
>matter how bad the hunting
>is, Because its a family
>tradition. When the DWR didn't
>even spend all of our
>license money on big game.
> They were as much
>interested in non game animals.
> Very little money was
>raised for Utah wildlife.
>We had a lot of
>non hunters running the DWR.
>
>
>Now we have hunters who care
>running the DWR. Sportsmen have
>a voice. Millions of
>dollars have been raised for
>habitat, transplants, research, highway fences,
>migration tunnels, predator control money
>for coyote gunning and bounties.
>Over 3 million for fish
>hatchery repairs. Prop 5
>to protect hunting, predator control,
>and trapping. Spring bear
>hunt came back, because sportsmen
>have a voice in Utah.
>
>
>It takes a lot of money
>to even maintain hunting opportunity
>and wildlife populations.The above projects
>to name a few,would not
>have happened without SFW.
>
>RMEF is raises money for habitat.
>They have done some good
>things. They don't lobby for
>the millions needed for projects
>for all species. They
>are not a political organization.
>I have supported and probably
>will continue to support SFW,
>RMEF, and NRA.
>
>I agree with Founder. Having
>secure data and detail plan
>was a big difference in
>the expo tags. The
>state didn't want to gamble,
>they already had a successful
>expo.
>
>I didn't go to the expo
>this year, but was told
>it was another great success.
>SFW banquets through out the
>state have been sold out
>and did very well. The
>DWR big game coordinator came
>to the Logan banquet, and
>was very impressed with all
>the kids, excited about hunting
>and fishing. I really don't
>believe that a few haters
>are going to take down
>SFW.
>
>We have heard from top officials
>from DWR, and the Governors
>office. Are we going
>to debate this issue for
>the next 5 years?
>
>I realize Hawkeye has invested a
>lot of time and money
>to try to help the
>RMEF to take over the
>expo which SFW and MDF
>had built over the years.
> You don't hear anything
>about MDF being criticized.
>I agree with Hawkeye, that
>more transparency should occur.
>It looks like things will
>improve.
>
>There are grudge's and hatred from
>some. There are different opinions.
>Fighting among ourselves isn't providing
>a better future for what
>we love.

Prop 5 was nearly 20 years ago. What exactly were the kids excited about? Dad trying in vein to by a tag that the kid gets left home while he hunts? The ratios are better, I agree, of course we have a ton less deer so big whoop. Most of Northern Utah is locked up. We lost 150,000 "excited kids" The leadership of the DWR, aka the WB is hunters, but mostly the kind that get paid to do so, or at least have. "RMEF buys habitat" YUP. Habitat where the animals live, where they reproduce, where those excited kids get to hunt. $fw buys politicians, PR, salaries. Seems like habitat might be more important. How many kids were excited to see AI tag go for nearly 1/2 million? Were they jazzed to see dad and uncle bob not get a tag, so we could give $fw 200 of them?

I agree, we need to be concerned with the future. But I'm concerned with the future of hunting for my kids, your kids, and the neighbors kids. $fw is concerned with Denny Austads kids, Karl Malones kids, etc. Fact is, if things were going good, and $fw had delivered on any of their calls to action this would be a non issue. They haven't produced anything, other than a nice party for a small handful of mostly out of town deep pocketed interests.

A fish hatchery is nice, but being able to fish a river is more so, so on balance what did $fw do on that one?

Lastly. Security. Am I to believe some dude in Bntfl. is better than the folks at Fallon? If that's true, 100,000 or more of us are up shizz creek right now, the Fallon has my info and my CC#.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-16 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]I agree less deer everywhere in the west. Utah is doing better than some states.Utah has done more habitat and restoration projects, mostly because of SFW being involved and getting money for the projects.
Habitat is important. You also need to be able to manage predators. If trapping was banned, like in some states. If hounding was banded like in some states. If we couldn't hunt bear in the spring, like used to be banned. If millions were not spent on fencing highways, and migration tunnels. If millions were not spent on gunning coyotes, and the bounty system over the years, things would be a lot worse.

If SFW didn't get the deer feeding program started on hard winters we would have fewer deer.

Instead of killing deer which are causing damage to farmers fields and winter range, they are being transplanted, with success.

SFW paid for research on deer feeding projects on Cache and transplant areas, to see what mortality rates are, and try to find ways to save our deer herds.

I just rattled off about 10 big things that has helped our deer herds thanks to SFW.

Now let's see RMEF list. Lets see some big major things that RMEF has done to help?

Utah doesn't have the habitat or carrying capacity to have deer populations they had in the early 80's. At least now

Youth opportunities.
Turkey transplants. Hunt opportunity on public ground.
Pheasant transplants, to try to provide more opportunity.
youth can hunt all 3 seasons, and can hunt at an earlier age like other states.
Youth can still buy over the counter elk tags.

Sfw helps recruit new hunters and fishermen.
Youth fish days, and tournaments, youth pheasant hunts,etc.

What has RMEF done to help kids in Utah the last 15 years?
I'm not say RMEF is a bad organization.

You are just complaining about our deer herds and lack of youth opportunities.

Lets compare lists.
 
Hawkeye,
I don't have a lot of free time.

I guess like most contracts with public interest, the DWR/state need to have a renewal period.

The State committee chose the SFW contract.

I'm not sure I believe, your statement, "I don't really care who has the expo contract, so long as the money is used for conservation and accounted for."

I told you I agree more transparency was needed. There is always ways to improve things.

I guess I, like many have more trust in those running the expo SFW/MDF and DWR.

I'm not a RMEF hater. They have done some good things for wildlife and hunting. I was just pointing out in the previous post that SFW has done a lot of good, and will continue to do so.

Do you care to write a list of things the RMEF had done the past 15 years to help our deer herd and youth opportunities for a comparison?
 
Greg-

I was hoping that you could shed some light on what changes regarding transparency and accountability were supposedly made as part of the most recent contract. The groups and the DWR allude to some significant changes but what those changes actually are is not clear to me or others on the outside.

Why don't you believe my statement that I don't really care who has the expo contract, so long as the money is used for conservation and accounted for? That is truly how I feel. As I have said many times, I volunteered to help RMEF with their proposal because of what they were offering to give back to the state, sportsmen and wildlife. But for the ongoing problems with SFW and MDF, I would not have even been involved.

I am not the best person to address what projects the respective groups have done in Utah. All I would be able to do is point you to their websites for a list of projects. I do, however, expect SFW to do more projects than any other group in Utah given that they take more Conservation Permits than any other groups (by a wide margin) and 90% of those proceeds must be spent on actual cosnservation.

Thanks for chatting.

-Hawkeye-
 
Hawk do you ever NOT make sense? If SFW and MDF matched the RMEF bid we would of ALL BEEN TO THE SHOW! They lost our thousand dollars.
 
Greg,

That is east to see that when SFW gets HOW MANY tags compared to RMEF? It is very easy to see who spends more money in Utah. SFW should be spending millions more, but they are keeping it for "PERSONNEL" uses or other uses we dont know about.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-16
>AT 08:51?AM (MST)

>
>I agree less deer everywhere in
>the west. Utah is
>doing better than some states.Utah
>has done more habitat and
>restoration projects, mostly because of
>SFW being involved and getting
>money for the projects.
>Habitat is important. You also
>need to be able to
>manage predators. If trapping was
>banned, like in some states.
> If hounding was banded
>like in some states.
>If we couldn't hunt bear
>in the spring, like used
>to be banned. If millions
>were not spent on fencing
>highways, and migration tunnels. If
>millions were not spent on
>gunning coyotes, and the bounty
>system over the years, things
>would be a lot worse.
>
>
>If SFW didn't get the deer
>feeding program started on hard
>winters we would have fewer
>deer.
>
>Instead of killing deer which are
>causing damage to farmers fields
>and winter range, they are
>being transplanted, with success.
>
>SFW paid for research on deer
>feeding projects on Cache and
>transplant areas, to see what
>mortality rates are, and try
>to find ways to save
>our deer herds.
>
>I just rattled off about 10
>big things that has helped
>our deer herds thanks to
>SFW.
>
>Now let's see RMEF list.
>Lets see some big major
>things that RMEF has done
>to help?
>
>Utah doesn't have the habitat or
>carrying capacity to have deer
>populations they had in the
>early 80's. At least now
>
>
>Youth opportunities.
>Turkey transplants. Hunt opportunity on public
>ground.
>Pheasant transplants, to try to provide
>more opportunity.
>youth can hunt all 3 seasons,
>and can hunt at an
>earlier age like other states.
>
>Youth can still buy over the
>counter elk tags.
>
>Sfw helps recruit new hunters and
>fishermen.
>Youth fish days, and tournaments, youth
>pheasant hunts,etc.
>
>What has RMEF done to help
>kids in Utah the last
>15 years?
>I'm not say RMEF is a
>bad organization.
>
>You are just complaining about our
>deer herds and lack of
>youth opportunities.
>
>Lets compare lists.

Lets do.
Turkey were transplanted here by WHO?? And last I checked they were set on private ground.
$fw set up free fishing day? Youth pheasant hunts?
Holy shizz, somehow I thought that was done by the DWR under suggestions through the RAC.

When was the last bad winter in Utah? 92'?
Your list is a strawman.

Without $fw deer would starve( or not)
Without $fw there would be no kid opportunities( but there are)
Without $fw Youth would be 16, (or not)

Simple truth is the simple truth. Prop 5 was $fw high water mark. The mule deer has rebounded in Utah MOSTLY because of the string of easy winters.

Youth programs weren't started by $fw.

$fw fought to LIMIT stream access, which would limit fishing

$fw is a UTAH based org. They damn well should spend more than RMEF in Utah. Utah gives them millions in welfare to do so. Every dollar RMEF spends in Utah comes from other means(yeah I don't like banquet tags either).

Is their a better way. YES. 200 tags, auctioned on UDWR website to the highest bidder. UDWR keeps 100% of the money for it. $fw gets the opportunity to show how much they care by continuing to do what they do without WELFARE.

But lets not try to blow smoke about internet security. If $fw gets hacked am I to believe they will then go away?

Its fine that you believe in them. Its fine that their members do some good work. Would you quit doing so if $fw didn't throw Denny and Doyle a party every year?

As a business owner, I would love to have the state give me my materials, let me sell them at retail, and then give them back wholesale for them. Its no different here. $fw asks me(better yet tells me) to give them money(tags are of monetary value), then sales them, keeps the profit, and then kicks me in the azz on the way out the door.

RMEF, DU, etc, exist without this handout, and have done so for decades. Would $fw/MDF? I doubt it.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
RMEF map of work on the ground in Utah.

5412utah.jpg


RMEF project and acres protected/improved.

9603utahchart.jpg


"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Is there a place to go on the internet,in specifics where, where a person can go to verify all of the markings and also the dates these projects occurred?

Thanks,
 
>Is there a place to go
>on the internet,in specifics where,
>where a person can go
>to verify all of the
>markings and also the dates
>these projects occurred?
>
>Thanks,


Here is a list from just 2008.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...ConservationProjectsDrawElkFoundationGra.aspx

Here's the list from 2010 projects.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/UtahConservationProjectsDrawRMEFFunding.aspx

List from 2011.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFAnnouncesGrantsforUtah.aspx

A list of 50 projects in 2013.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/PressRoom/NewsReleases/RMEFGrantstoImproveUtahElkHabitat.aspx


2014 had 50 more projects in Utah.

http://www.rmef.org/NewsandMedia/Pr...hElkHabitatGetsUpgradeThankstoRMEFGrants.aspx


None of those examples above include Conservation Easements of winter range or acquisitions of acreage that is then turned over to USFS, BLM, or DWR for public access.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-16 AT 07:17PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-22-16 AT 07:10?PM (MST)

"Now let's see RMEF list. Lets see some big major things that RMEF has done to help?"


D'oh! LMAO, sometimes it's not wise to ask a question to which you don't know the answer.

Joey

Keep your slimy Paws Off My, Yours, Our,.. Public Land!!!
 
Let me see on most of those projects everybody is taking credit. Hum! Is that that one RMEF man one hour or what? I would like specifics please.
 
RMEF has done some good things in Utah.

Raising 30K in a successful banquet and keeping 30% and 70% going to MT really wasn't helping much.

Like I said. They helped with some controlled burns, get a couple thousand acre's here and there. Take credit for Book cliffs, which SFW helped with. In fact the UEA wanted to have school trust land become a Huge CWMU and block out regular hunting, and thanks to SFW and the DWR/state paid them I believe $500,000 a year to keep it open for public hunters.

Hoss was complain about our deer herds and lack of youth opportunities. I just asked what specific things has the RMEF done to help with Utah deer herd and youth activities to recruit hunters?

It takes millions of dollars and projects to get things done for wildlife on a big scale. You can make a lot more money for wildlife in the political process than holding a few banquets, which the majority goes out of state.Animal right groups are involved in the political process and they were killing us hunters. They are still always attacking us and what we love. Namely wolves, grizzlies, stop hounding, stop trapping, ESA to stop access and multiple use, etc.

You need predator control, coyote, lion, and bear. Researching the cause of deer mortality,finding out some answers to help. Fencing highways, migration tunnels,trapping, hound hunting, feeding programs on hard winters for deer and feeding elk in places so the deer don't need to compete. Work with UDOT for signs and Flashing lights where deer are being slaughtered on roads. Just a few examples what SFW has done, which is not really the mission of RMEF.
 
BigFin,

You put the impressive map up of RMEF projects. Now impress me on the details of money and/or time spent on each project. We do want to be transparent, don't we? Hawkeye, chime in here please. You could help with this information.

If you are going to do the show, do a good one.
 
>BigFin,
>
>You put the impressive map up
>of RMEF projects. Now
>impress me on the details
>of money and/or time spent
>on each project. We
>do want to be transparent,
>don't we? Hawkeye, chime
>in here please. You
>could help with this information.
>
>
>If you are going to do
>the show, do a good
>one.

Come on dude. Admit you stepped in it and now take the time to read all the links that were put up showing the RMEF walks the walk!!!
 
Greg-

We can't get SFW and MDF to account for millions of dollars raised off the Expo Tags for the last 10 years but now you as a member of SFW are going to ask for more detail after Randy responded to your question with a list of projects completed by RMEF in Utah. Remember that all conservation groups (SFW, MDF and RMEF) that participate in the Conservation Permit program are required by law to spend 90% of that money on approved projects that DWR audits those monies. That is why I have never asked SFW or MDF for an accounting of the Conservation Permit funds and frankly why I expect them to do some major projects in Utah given that they take more Conservation Permits than the other groups.

If any other groups, including RMEF, were pocketing money from the Expo Tags without showing how the money was used for actual conservation projects -- or "put on the ground" to use Don Peay's words, then the public would be asking them for the same transparency and accountability.

-Hawkeye-
 
I'm not a fan of those who take credit for projects when they have only a small amount of influence on that project. When someone makes a map with all those impressive dots, squares and triangles, they should really mean something - like major involvement!!

The concern should what percent are spent on salaries (including contract labor such as Peays and special ***fringes) in conjunction with the total revenue received. It is as simple as that. Some non-profit organizations such as the Salvation Army and LDS Church Welfare show a very small amount in those categories. They help many people. Others, put on a good show, but very little hit the ground after enormous salaries(including parties, motels, etc, etc and other fringes). As I remember SFW shows those salary figures. I don't like some of the things they do, but they do a lot of good. That being said, I certainly don't like the money game they have made out of our hunting.

The expo has gone around the block so many times, give it a rest.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 03:30PM (MST)[p]>The expo has gone around the
>block so many times, give
>it a rest.


Thats exactly what SFW and DWR want, to give it a rest and let people forget about it. Well, thats not going to happen. YOU screw something so bad and then try to sweep it under the rug with 26 FAQ's and think its all OK? Not going to happen this time. I hope this keeps going until finally the DWR ADMITS they SCREWED up and fix the problem, starting with the rule they are SUPPOSED to follow, then admit and stop blaming RMEF for not getting the bid because RMEF didnt follow the rules. (I call that loser elbow, always pointing at someone else to blame). Thats just me, I am not speaking for anyone else. This is what I think.
Go ahead Richard, make your comments!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 04:42PM (MST)[p]Cannonball where are reading/getting SFW salary figures???
 
Whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and whine and lie and whine and whine.

Dead horse attracting the same flies.
 
>Whine and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and lie and
>whine and whine.
>
>Dead horse attracting the same flies.
>

Wow! If I'm ever indicted for poaching I want you as my lawyer. You can make such a convincing case!
 
>Whine and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and whine and
>whine and whine and whine
>and whine and lie and
>whine and whine.
>
>Dead horse attracting the same flies.
>

Says the window licker in the short bus. Move along and let the adults carry on a constructive conversation.
 
Adult conversation??????? Is that what your last post was? You know its one thing to lie to the public. That's logical. It's another thing to lie to yourself.
 
You're not worth responding to. All I can say is it must be slow in the armadillo stuffing world these days you spend all day typing garbage on the computer.
 
"You're not worth responding to."

And yet you do again and again. You really have some serious problems.
 
I can't believe I am responding!
The proof is in the pudding,
Look at elk numbers and permits in 1983. Look at them in 2016 anyone that doesn't believe the change is a direct result of the RMEF is a fool. Yes they focus mainly on elk however many species receive collateral advantage due to the work RMEF has completed. Look at the proof without the RMEF bandwagon the picture would be much different.
 

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