Hate and Jealousy, Get over it. It's not healthy.

[Tristate]

Hey Nemont,

I am going to let you in on a couple of little secrets. First, the mule deer on public land don't know that its public land. Second, if what you call experts are those that just agree with all your beliefs and affirm your feelings all you have is a bunch of expert ass kissers.

 

[NeMont]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-13 AT 01:47PM (MST)[p]>Hey Nemont,
>
>I am going to let you
>in on a couple of
>little secrets. First, the
>mule deer on public land
>don't know that its public
>land. Second, if what
>you call experts are those
>that just agree with all
>your beliefs and affirm your
>feelings all you have is
>a bunch of expert ass
>kissers.


So you have managed mule deer on big public lands acres like we have and you had to deal with major winter kills there in Texas when you managed that ranch for mule deer?

I guess the biologists that I listen to don't know anything and their degrees are not as shiny and grand as one from Texas. Trust me I don't like some of their conclusions especially on predators but I listen to them. None of them reaffirm diddly.

Managing mule deer on a ranch with limited access and not having to deal with the public, massive winter kills and long seasons doesn't make you an expert in what goes on in any place other than Texas.

Parroting the lines of SFW makes you the enemy of every average Joe hunter in Montana. This entire legislative session SFW has done nothing but be on the wrong side of every bill that affects average Joe hunters and their positions are the exact same as yours. So pretend your degree and managing mule deer in Texas makes you an expert in doing it every where. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in a public meeting trying to explain your position up here.

I knew better to respond and I am taking a vow to never respond to another one of your posts. You have no interest in doing anything other than selling out my kids and grand kids and their outdoor heritage. Thank god they have land they will be able to hunt and won't have to beg people like you for an opportunity to let just the peons on the place to kill a few does every couple of years.

So this is the end of the line for me. I am taking the advice of the original poster of this thread and letting it go. Willful ignorance and a self centered attitude that you know everything about mule deer won't get you very far. Good luck with your efforts sell out my kids and grand kids.

Nemont

 

[Tristate]

"So you have managed mule deer on big public lands acres like we have and you had to deal with major winter kills there in Texas when you managed that ranch for mule deer?"

Nope. It was just like Jamaica here all the time and our deer never die of anything except eating too much corn. In school when we talked about wildlife management we never discussed anything to do with weather, or seasons or anything. We just wouldn't know what the hell to do if a deer ever saw a snowflake. If you can't tell I am being sarcastic.

"I guess the biologists that I listen to don't know anything and their degrees are not as shiny and grand as one from Texas. Trust me I don't like some of their conclusions especially on predators but I listen to them. None of them reaffirm diddly."

I am not claiming to be smarter than your biologists. I am just claiming I know more than you about all of this. For whatever reason you take that as an insult even though I don't mean it that way. Pretty fragile ego I guess. Let me ask you. What do you do for a living? Do you think I would argue anything with you having to do with your professional opinion in your field?????

"Managing mule deer on a ranch with limited access and not having to deal with the public, massive winter kills and long seasons doesn't make you an expert in what goes on in any place other than Texas."

What makes an "expert" exactly? According to you what does it take to qualify someone as an expert. Is it those state biologists you talk to? The guys who work for a government agency and never are held accountable for poor performance???? When was the last time one of your "public lands" biologists got fired for not producing enough deer????? I don't call a man an expert if he has never had to compete to hold his job.

"Parroting the lines of SFW makes you the enemy of every average Joe hunter in Montana. This entire legislative session SFW has done nothing but be on the wrong side of every bill that affects average Joe hunters and their positions are the exact same as yours. So pretend your degree and managing mule deer in Texas makes you an expert in doing it every where. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in a public meeting trying to explain your position up here."

Once again, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT SFW'S LINES ARE? How can I parrot them? As for the five minutes in a public meeting there. What are they going to do? Tar and feather me???? Quit being dramatic again.

"I knew better to respond and I am taking a vow to never respond to another one of your posts. You have no interest in doing anything other than selling out my kids and grand kids and their outdoor heritage. Thank god they have land they will be able to hunt and won't have to beg people like you for an opportunity to let just the peons on the place to kill a few does every couple of years."

How can I sell out your kids when their future got sold out by you a long time ago and I wasn't the buyer?

"So this is the end of the line for me. I am taking the advice of the original poster of this thread and letting it go. Willful ignorance and a self centered attitude that you know everything about mule deer won't get you very far. Good luck with your efforts sell out my kids and grand kids."

I don't have to sell them out. You allready did. You allready bought all the BS the "experts" gave you for decades and now the dyes are set.

 

[klbzdad]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-13 AT 02:54PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-13 AT 02:30?PM (MST)

>You are right that wolf plans
>are changing constantly. As
>of 2012 there were talks
>by the Fed wildlife service
>of wolves into the pine
>valley mountains and also to
>the Arizona Strip. Course
>the strip is a few
>miles from Utah. Also
>the management plan for the
>feds still includes I 70
>south as a Mexican wolf
>recovery area. Now weather
>they were indigenous to the
>area or not that area
>has been changed from endangered
>to a management plan. As
>you know the plans are
>changing constantly.
> Now that wolves
>have been introduced into Arizona
>with the wolves increasing in
>numbers, 19 in 2011 and
>20 more in 2012 The
>border of Utah is getting
>surrounded. Yes there is
>a need to worry about
>wolves in Utah. Remember
>two years ago when they
>found the hybreds and the
>worries that were brought up
>by sportsmen about having wolves
>in Utah. Will Utah
>is not going to take
>any chances.

I gave you credit for answering some questions earlier but this is an even bigger crock of bull dung than anything I've ever read on this site, you've officially beaten Tristate out of the holder of the top Dumb and Mud post of the year. I'm going to go ahead and prove you wrong here despite something in my body wanting to just walk away and let you believe that crap Don and Ryan have been pumping down your throat.

1. There are no plans. The only threat there is by ANY management plan is sage grouse habitat which SFW is on the wrong side of...AGAIN. Speak with Mike Jimenez with the USFWS. He's the guy that knows what the "plans" are or better yet, he's aware that there aren't any plans. I'd post emails from the Arizona Fish and Game people too and even those in the Grand Canyon management group as well but my mind is a little dumb from reading your post. And if you think that the state of Utah doesn't have a say in this....WRONG AGAIN! We have a DWR member actively involved as a member of the Mexican Grey Wolf Management Group and HE even says there are NO PLANS for the introduction of wolves in the Kaibab, Arizona strip, or Pine Valley Mountains (that one actually made me laugh). Its emotional triggering rhetoric that is a blatant LIE!!!! And I'll say that to Don and Ryan face to face in confidence that I am right.

Breath....

2. Okay, on your "Utah's boarders are being surrounded".....Bird, nothing is further from the truth. Colorado has blocked through legislation and policy any reintroduction of wolves where they don't occur naturally. Remember, Don and Ryan spewed that claim out there a while back....not going to happen and its not a result of anything they did. Its a result of the Wolf Management Team and some calls to certain Representatives on certain committees in Washington that said there wouldn't be money allocated EVER for another wolf reintroduction program. Don and Ryan do what they do best and claim their efforts on the tail end of hard work by others is their doing.

Published Press Release from USFWS in Colorado (Bottom Announcement):
http://www.gjsentinel.com/opinion/articles/email-letters-feb.-6-2012

Colorado Wolf Plan:
http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteCol...s/SpeciesOfConcern/Mammals/recomendations.pdf

Federal Wolf Management Plan for Mexican Grey Wolf 1982:
http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/mexicanwolf/pdf/Mexican_Wolf_RP_1982.pdf

Federal Wolf Management Plan for Mexican Grey Wolf (Draft but will be discussed and adopted this year):
http://lunacountynm.us/News Flyers/Southwestern Wolf Management Plan 2012 draft 12-17-12.pdf

Absolutely nothing in there about using the area within I-70 to the Arizona Strip and Nevada Boarder as a recovery area. So stop with that pathetic drivel already! See Management Zone 1.

Memorandum (updated this year):
http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/mexicanwolf/pdf/MW_MOU.pdf

The numbers Don and Ryan are feeding you are incorrect too:
http://us.vocuspr.com/Newsroom/Quer...AssetID_EQ=131795&XSL=PressRelease&Cache=True

Press release on USFWS Findings on Petitions FOR reintroduction:
http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/mexicanwolf/pdf/Mexican_Wolf_12-mo_Finding_NR_Final.pdf

Breath again......

3. Okay, maybe 2.5....here is the latest telemetry readings from the collared wolves and an outline of the recovery area:
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/es/documents/quarterlywolflocationmapbrwra4th2012.pdf Sorry, but its all south of I-40. There is not one single dog close to the Southern Utah boarder. Hybrids? Yeah, I'm going to assume every animal I see chasing a deer or elk in this area is either a domestic animal, hybrid, or coyote. I look forward to whatever lame explanation Benson offers as his accounting for the first $300,000.00 of taxpayer money that helped Utah stay ahead of any wolf fight. Concerning an animal being indigenous....its a criteria for federal protection under the ESA. And if you think they are going to openly or covertly do what they did with the Grey wolves in Yellowstone EVER again, you're off your rocker! I'm going to go slam an apple beer now.

I could go on for days with links and research but then all I'd here is that the people who aren't in line with Don and Ryan are anti-hunter, anti-sportsman, anti-chupacabra, anti-golf, anti-fake tan......and answer the question, What group was against and tried to derail Simpson / Tester?

Shawn

Just thought I'd better throw in Utah's Management Plan too. Don, by the way, is listed on this plan, but when negotiations and the formation of this plan were not going his way, he pulled a fit, got up, and stormed out to not be a part of it again. Speak with Jim Bowns if you don't believe me.

Utah Wolf Management Plan:
http://wildlife.utah.gov/wolf/wolf_management_plan.pdf



"There is no reason why I have to tolerate your stupidity if you are unwilling to tolerate mine." ME

 

[Tristate]

I love all this faith and trust in what the USFWS has to say. They are basicly a government funded anti-hunting group.

You don't trust SFW but you trust USFWS. That fits.

 

[Birdman]

There has always been pressure for wolves in Utah. I was there with the original group that called for NO WOLVES in Utah. There we were told it is not if we are going to have wolves in Utah but when. That was the fed boys. I have red some of the same things you put on in your post. I think that there is so much changing as it changed again in December. My thing is that I do not trust the feds and there bosses in the white house and they still are being pressured to have wolves clear across the country. If it happens or not is still to be determined. The fight goes on even in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming to shut down the killings of wolves. Montana was recently shut down their wolf hunt early and we taken to court to force them to open it back up. I will never be satisfied with the governments statements about if we will have wolves or not. You mentioned the sage grouse which you said that SFW is on the opposite side of. I guess you are on the side to shut them down. Course you are friends with the fed boys. You know more. There is more to all this than you even know.

 

[klbzdad]

>There has always been pressure for
>wolves in Utah. I
>was there with the original
>group that called for NO
>WOLVES in Utah. There
>we were told it is
>not if we are going
>to have wolves in Utah
>but when. That was
>the fed boys. I
>have red some of the
>same things you put on
>in your post. I
>think that there is so
>much changing as it changed
>again in December. My
>thing is that I do
>not trust the feds and
>there bosses in the white
>house and they still are
>being pressured to have wolves
>clear across the country.
>If it happens or not
>is still to be determined.
> The fight goes on
>even in Montana, Idaho, and
>Wyoming to shut down the
>killings of wolves. Montana
>was recently shut down their
>wolf hunt early and we
>taken to court to force
>them to open it back
>up. I will never
>be satisfied with the governments
>statements about if we will
>have wolves or not.
>You mentioned the sage grouse
>which you said that SFW
>is on the opposite side
>of. I guess you
>are on the side to
>shut them down. Course
>you are friends with the
>fed boys. You know
>more. There is more to
>all this than you even
>know.

I know enough to see beyond what those who stand to loose the most are telling me. I am for STATE control of sage grouse conservation efforts. When SFW gets rid of the ding dongs at the corporate office and fight to reverse the ESA altogether, THEN I'll be satisfied that they are on my side of anything. Do you really want me to roll out the bills in Montana and New Mexico that are clearly AGAINST public land hunters and anglers? I would suggest looking past your nose and using that thing holding your ears apart instead of playing tape recorder for Dear Leader Don.


"There is no reason why I have to tolerate your stupidity if you are unwilling to tolerate mine." ME

 

[BillyBoB]

Elk from above said it best in post #12.
He hit the nail right on the head.
well said man.




PTheodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."

 

[Birdman]

Kibzdad, It is so good to have you here to help us all out. You really do not see a big picture. You have no idea what is going on with the sage grouse, it is like the Bonneville cutthroat and the June sucker. The state has to play the game in order not to shut down the sage hen hunts. But then you are in great with the fed boys. I am glad that you are here to keep me straight and let me know how things really work. Thanks so much. I will just check in now and again to see what else I can learn from you. Please have a great year.

 

[Tristate]

"When SFW gets rid of the ding dongs at the corporate office and fight to reverse the ESA altogether, THEN I'll be satisfied that they are on my side of anything."




And people think I have lost touch with reality??????? Any other requests like you want SFW to find god particles, or start running NASA?????
Getting USFWS and the federal government to reverse the ESA is basicly making them give up half of their wildlife powers. Good Luck.

 

[bowhunt]

Interesting topic and post.
Here are some things to consider:

-Is it jealousy and hate when we speak out about Gun Control?
-Is it jealousy and hate when we speak our mind about and try to influence people to vote for FG funding?

Why then is it jealousy and hate when someone speaks out about Private Tags being sold to the highest bidder???

They are political issues, while I may not agree with someone's view on Gun Control, I certainly do not HATE them, nor am I jealous of them when I speak my mind.

The same applies here.

Keep in mind that those speaking against auction tags, and miss use of funds, are generally trying to IMPROVE your hunting opportunities...now you may not agree with the approach. But it is generally not founded in Jealousy and Hate.

 

[Muley_73]

bowhunt,
I believe the sale of those tags are to IMPROVE your hunting opportunities.

I also believe that with some of the posters it is founded on jealousy and hate. They would never claim that because its safer to hide behind a "cause".

 

[Tristate]

"Interesting topic and post.
Here are some things to consider:

-Is it jealousy and hate when we speak out about Gun Control?"

Interesting question. For me sometimes it is hate and sometimes it isn't. For instance when people argue for gun control because they want to reduce crime, I do not hate them. I hate the fact that they have been robbed of an education. Now when people start talking about gun control for the purposes of stemming and controling freedom then I do hate those people. They are evil and looking to do all of us harm.

"-Is it jealousy and hate when we speak our mind about and try to influence people to vote for FG funding?"

For me, no. I can't answer for all.

"Why then is it jealousy and hate when someone speaks out about Private Tags being sold to the highest bidder???"

Do you mean "public tags"?

"They are political issues, while I may not agree with someone's view on Gun Control, I certainly do not HATE them, nor am I jealous of them when I speak my mind."

OKYDOKY

"The same applies here."

Maybe for you but not all.

"Keep in mind that those speaking against auction tags, and miss use of funds, are generally trying to IMPROVE your hunting opportunities...now you may not agree with the approach. But it is generally not founded in Jealousy and Hate."

I think you have several types of people and we can not speak for all of them. Some may be wanting to improve hunting opportunities but then some may just selfish or into classwarfare. Some may want nothing to do with hunting and in fact are trying to create a divide between us. There are many different reasons why people may want this. Remember the people pushing for the auction tags are the same way and their reasons may be just as varried.

 

[FemoralArchery]

Why is someone jealous if they don't agree?

Why can't I just disagree and not be jealous?

 

[elkfromabove]

>"Interesting topic and post.
>Here are some things to consider:
>
>
>-Is it jealousy and hate when
>we speak out about Gun
>Control?"
>
>Interesting question. For me sometimes
>it is hate and sometimes
>it isn't. For instance
>when people argue for gun
>control because they want to
>reduce crime, I do not
>hate them. I hate
>the fact that they have
>been robbed of an education.
> Now when people start
>talking about gun control for
>the purposes of stemming and
>controling freedom then I do
>hate those people. They
>are evil and looking to
>do all of us harm.
>
>
>"-Is it jealousy and hate when
>we speak our mind about
>and try to influence people
>to vote for FG funding?"
>
>
>For me, no. I can't
>answer for all.
>
>"Why then is it jealousy and
>hate when someone speaks out
>about Private Tags being sold
>to the highest bidder???"
>
>Do you mean "public tags"?
>
>"They are political issues, while I
>may not agree with someone's
>view on Gun Control, I
>certainly do not HATE them,
>nor am I jealous of
>them when I speak my
>mind."
>
>OKYDOKY
>
>"The same applies here."
>
>Maybe for you but not all.
>
>
>"Keep in mind that those speaking
>against auction tags, and miss
>use of funds, are generally
>trying to IMPROVE your hunting
>opportunities...now you may not agree
>with the approach. But it
>is generally not founded in
>Jealousy and Hate."
>
>I think you have several types
>of people and we can
>not speak for all of
>them. Some may be
>wanting to improve hunting opportunities
>but then some may just
>selfish or into classwarfare. Some
>may want nothing to do
>with hunting and in fact
>are trying to create a
>divide between us. There
>are many different reasons why
>people may want this.
>Remember the people pushing for
>the auction tags are the
>same way and their reasons
>may be just as varried.
>

And there are, unfortunately, some who actually think they're on one side or the other, but whose statements, viewpoints, and actions result in just the opposite effect.

 

[klbzdad]

>Kibzdad, It is so good
>to have you here to
>help us all out.
>You really do not see
>a big picture. You
>have no idea what is
>going on with the sage
>grouse, it is like the
>Bonneville cutthroat and the June
>sucker. The state has
>to play the game in
>order not to shut down
>the sage hen hunts.
>But then you are in
>great with the fed boys.
> I am glad that
>you are here to keep
>me straight and let me
>know how things really work.
> Thanks so much.
>I will just check in
>now and again to see
>what else I can learn
>from you. Please have
>a great year.

I spoke with them. I asked direct and non politically correct questions to get direct answers. The only person with the USFWS I am friendly with, is a childhood friend who absolutely tells me what is happening if I like it or not. I posted facts and once again, those facts aren't from the almighty Don or Ryan. Unless they say it, its not fact. Like nothing can be put in the internet that isn't true. Why isn't SFW a supporter of this group:

http://www.sportsmenslink.org/about/partners/

And I spoke with a friend this morning who works in Washington and she checked again for a lobbyist registered for SFW or BGF. None. I find it interesting that you underestimate my knowledge on the sage grouse issue. I'm fully aware of habitat reclassifying and what it means. What is SFW doing in Southeastern Utah to help landowners and sportsmen preserve their rights there? And please don't pretend Don is the only one with access to the ears of legislators in this and other states. Nor is he the sole spokesman for sportsmen with our state representatives in Washington DC. I have no issue with the members of SFW or any group that does work and donates to wildlife conservation in Utah. I have a problem with leadership that isn't honest with its members. If Tye Boulter of the UWC or David Allen of RMEF acted the way Don does toward those who don't agree with him, I would call them out and if they continued I would no longer be a member or supporter of either group.

Why won't you answer the question, What sportsmen's group was opposed and on the wrong side of Simpson / Tester? Only because its now clear they are going to try the legislative route in other states so Utah will soon follow....how come SFW leadership opposed these bills in Montana?

HB 312, HB 404, HB 440, HB 33, HB 31, SB 143, SB 237?

How come, after several other groups fought for, lobbied to help draft, and did all the hard work for HB 73 in that state, did SFW / BGF leadership take credit for that bill's passage without any credit to the other groups that actually did the bulk of the work? This is what they did with the original Utah Wolf Management Plan and that is what they did on the wolf delisting, ALL the good work SFW has accomplished and continues to do is overshadowed by the actions of a few and it weighs huge on the entire group. You should expect more from those who represent you. Hope your year is a good one too.



"There is no reason why I have to tolerate your stupidity if you are unwilling to tolerate mine." ME

 

[bowhunt]

When someone is opposed to an idea, or want to see accountability and improvement, and present the information and ideas....

The People that respond with "You are just Jealous, and Hate"

Those people generally are blind followers and do not have a defense or a defensible position.

 

[Grizz]

Somethings should be fair. When it's a public resource and public money.... we the people should have a voice. We the people do not choose to let the corrupt weasel their way to special status. Ya we hate this kind of cronyism. It's wrong and you say deal with it. I choose to say the heck with you... we're going to be loud and nasty and get this done. Deal with that.

 

[Tristate]

"Somethings should be fair. When it's a public resource and public money.... we the people should have a voice. We the people do not choose to let the corrupt weasel their way to special status. Ya we hate this kind of cronyism. It's wrong and you say deal with it. I choose to say the heck with you... we're going to be loud and nasty and get this done. Deal with that."


You do have a voice. Its called your vote and your dollar. Nothing is more "fair" than that. Start learning how to use it and quit the whining.

 

[Tristate]

"When someone is opposed to an idea, or want to see accountability and improvement, and present the information and ideas....

The People that respond with "You are just Jealous, and Hate"

Those people generally are blind followers and do not have a defense or a defensible position."


I haven't seen anybody respond to the "acccountability" arguement with calling people jealous haters????

 

[bowhunt]

TriState,
REALLY? Must not be reading much. If I cared enough, I would cut and paste 20 examples for you....but I really do not care.

 

[Tristate]

You don't have to post twenty. Just post me one.

 

[bowhunt]

Click on SEARCH, type in Jealous.
Read.
I found 5 in 5 minutes, and that is all the time I care to spend on this topic.

Interesting that most threads had you chiming in.

Once again: those that have alternate ideas, to the current HUGE number of Utah auction tags, are NOT doing it because of Hate and Jealousy, for the most part, they are posting because they care, and want change.

read the title of this whole post. HELLO

 

[Tristate]

Press "ctrl" "C" at the same time after highlighting quote then click prompt where you want quote to be and press "CTRL" "V".


I understand people talk about hate and jealousy all the time on these threads. But you stated people say that about the people who want SFW accountability and I haven't seen that here. Now I am pretty sure you haven't either.

 

[hossblur]

When Tristate agrees with you, you pretty much have to look at your life and wonder where you went wrong


>Amen Smitty. This is one
>of a few points I
>have been trying to bring
>to light here.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

 

[hossblur]

I use Denny Austad and Doyle as examples generally. Most Utah guys have heard of them so they are names to use. I use them specifically when talking about AI hunt.

I met Doyle once, he seemed nice, although not my type of guy. I have never met Denny. I work with a guy who met both last year at Tepanyakis in Layton. Both were loosened up and Denny offered to buy them drinks. I really could care less that Denny has millions, good for him. I actually feel bad for Doyle. I heard him on Tony Abbots show talking about how he doesn't hunt much if at all for himself. He doesn't have a "spot". He doesn't have a camp. He doesn't have lifelong hunting buddies. He doesn't have tradition. He has a very successful buisness in which guys pay him to find them things to shoot. Some of those guys are probably nice, decent, everyday guys, but statistics would say some are tools. Don't know about you all, but if a guy is a tool, I ain't spending any time this fall with them, Doyle doesn't have a choice, he has to produce, even for tools, or it reflects poorly on him and his buisness.

I don't like the "buisness" of hunting period, but I am not stupid, there is obviously a market.

My BIGGEST problem with this subject is two fold.

One, government. IT IS NOT GOVERNMENTS JOB to pick winners and losers. This is a REPUBLIC. You should not get special consideration and rules and regs because you are aristocracy. My forefathers crossed an ocean, then a country to get away from England, and this is the basis for my continual push against the way things have become, both in life and in hunting. IT IS GOVERNMENTS job to create the playing field, then get out of the way!!

Second. ACCESS. As in #1, it should be governments job to continually work to create more and more access for all(regardless of bank account). The STATE should be aggresively pushing access programs(similar to South Dakota with pheasants). However, as we see more and more, and with the back room dealings of SFW et al, more and more access is lost via tag losses, CWMU, "conservation tags", etc. Again, it should be DWRs job to create the most access to tags, lands, animals, THEN GET OUT OF THE WAY!!

I always find it hilarious that guys like Denny, who undoubtedly have accountants and lawyers working every day to get government out of his buisness, then lives in a world in which he desires that same government to "hook him up" year after year!

I realize that I am in the minority with my libertarianism.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"